Imaginary Setup
- Suppose you are accused that on October 19, two weeks in the future, that you will break the law.
- You deny you will break the law.
- Someone files a lawsuit against you, asserting that you will indeed break the law.
- The high court of the nation agree to hear the case
The setup is not imaginary. It happened today. The case involves whether or not UK prime minister Boris Johnson will break the Benn Law requiring him to ask the EU for a Brexit extension.
Lawsuit Filed
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1180079141087055872
The Guardian Live Blog fills in details.
As legal proceedings get back under way in Scotland, Maugham, one of those bringing the court of session legal action, has made further remarks to PA Media. “It’s impossible for him [Johnson] to say, as he’s been telling parliament and indeed the rest of us, that we will leave the EU on October 31, come what may. That is no longer a true statement, if ever it was a true statement, of the law and the prime minister acknowledges it.”
On those grounds a lawsuit was filed and the case will be heard despite the fact “the UK government promised the highest civil court in Scotland that Boris Johnson would send a letter to the EU seeking an extension to article 50 as required by the Benn act.”
Meanwhile, Leo Varadkar, the Irish premier, said that if Boris Johnson submitted a request for an extension he would agree.
Steve Baker Explains
This is certainly amusing because it seems impossibly contradictory.
However I offer this piece of advice.
Helpful Advice
If someone bets you the queen of hearts will jump out of the pack and spit grapefruit juice in your eye, and you take the bet, most likely you will get an eyeful of grapefruit juice.
Even if this is some sort of Johnson bluff, filing a lawsuit against someone before any crime is committed is totally absurd.
It also shows just how far Remainers will go to stop an action that was legally voted on.
The case should be thrown out with malice and a fine if possible.
Meanwhile, I stick with my assessment: The UK is On the Verge of a Brexit Breakthrough.
To that I add, Remainers are now scared shitless.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
This just in
What I am not sure of is whether after the fact he can challenge. It is now law. He could have challenged before. I believe he easily would have won.
The bill became law when it was passed. BJ’s statement is clear, it is what he must do within law as PM as subject to the bill. That does not void the possibility of suspending the bill, or even breaking/contesting that law by raising another facet of law that he feels bound to, or that to his view supersedes that of the bill. The attempt to corner him in court or to sully him by putting words into his mouth, is what we have come to expect of those servant to EU interests.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. When their opinion is full of schoolboy howlers then that opinion deserves ridicule. There is no such thing as the Benn Bill now. It is an Act. There is no possibility of suspending an Act of parliament. An Act can be repealed, if you have a majority in parliament. If a Bill, on its way through parliament conflicts with another Act and this renders both the Bill, and the Act inoperable then the Bill can go no further until the contradictions
are resolved. In practice the Bill would be dead in the water. Opinion without knowledge is worthless. Like others on this site you need to find out how the UK is governed. If you do that then your opinion might carry some weight.
I re-read the highlights of the Benn Bill. The clause that got my attention the most was the EU can counter the 3 month delay request with ANY length of time they wish, and the PM would not be able to negotiate. The Benn bill usurps the powers of the executive branch, as well as gives the EU power over the UK without approval of ALL branches of the UK and the Queen. That sounds like treason to me.
Given the above scenario, PM Johnson correctly advised the Queen before placing Parliament on an extended recess. The courts missed their opportunity to protect sovereignty.
I think PM Johnson has the confidence to challenge the Benn bill. There may be a precedence in British Constitutional law that suspends a bill being challenged in the courts. Even so, that won’t stop the EU’s clock from ticking.
I wish you guys would do some research and find out how the UK is governed. There is no executive branch in the UK. Parliament is elected, the leader of the largest party becomes Prime Minister and the government remains part of the legislature. Government and legislature is a single entity. Understanding that do you see how much drivel you have written?
The Remainer argument: The PM is guilty of the Pre-Crime of being likely not to comply with the law at some future date, despite his insistence that he will comply. Their only evidence? The word of the man they call the liar. They believe him when he says he won’t ask for an extension, but when he says he will comply with the law then he is a liar. They go to Scotland to file a lawsuit, because it is more heavily Remain. This really is desperation, they are terrified of Boris Johnson at this point, living in total fear that he has completely outsmarted them.
My theory is that the letter surely will be sent… But this will be followed by some public /official statement of certain content which will make it invalid… and why – it was discussed here for some time… now, EU will be desperate to prevent Brexit, so it will be colluding with remainers, so it all goes crazy in the last week of October – EU will be accepting letter which will be contradicting UK officials, so we can end up with UK saying on Nov 1 that Brexit has happen and EU opposing this point of view… This is what is coming… messy days… what would matter is UK acting as if it is outside of EU from Nov 1, that means EU will not have any real mechanisms to change it unless use some force … so Brexit would happen defacto even without EU admitting it, but the implications for EU will be the same… why EU is not afraid of it? it puzzles me… they should accept Johnson’s deal until it is too late…
For the first time ever I disagree with Mish but agree with Avidremainer.
Remainers are definitely not scared shitless. They are deluded shitless. They believe that having got the Benn act passed and ticked off, they can control the whole situation by constant reference to the courts and by tying up the government with ever more soggy bits of moth-eaten string.
Meanwhile, off camera the real plan is rolling along nicely. By the 19th it will all be irrevocable. Varadker will have to start erecting a border at the insistence of the EU, having overplayed his hand.
Remainers have only two options – one is to capitulate, the other is to put wily old Jeremy and his team of incompetents into number 10. Even his own MPs don’t want that.
I look forward to seein Avid’s ranting, illogical, fact-sparse post once the deed is done. His head will explode.
.
I don’t really get why Brexiteers underestimate the elitist Remainers so much… A caretaker Corbyn government would be a short-term gimmick unable to do any meaningful legislation at all. It would be a tactical retreat for Remainers and the continuation of the war.
You say that the enemy is not able to choose between tactical retreat and capitulation. This kind of assumption leads to disappointment and defeat regularly.
I used to respect the people of Scotland (especially after watching “Braveheart”). I can no longer respect them and it would seem Britain would be better off to grant them their desire to be cut loose from the United Kingdom.
I lost respect for all UK. That country is turning into a complete joke.
Really. You formed your opinions about a country based on a Hollywood movie with an Australian lead actor? Speaks volumes.
stillCJ,
At the Scottish referendum, the Scots themselves decided that they didnt want to leave. If only the English could have voted, then Scotland would have had to pack their bags.
We had an election…but the liberals/progressives didn’t like the results.
So it is destruction of all social and government institutions to overturn that vote.
Am I talking US or UK?
Yes – we had a referendum in June 1975 and 67% of Brits wanted to join the E.U. But the whiners couldn’t accept that and said “things have changed, we need another referendum”.
Well guess what, things have changed again, the “It’ll be easy to leave and we’ll have L350M for the NHS” didn’t quite work out.
So, time for another referendum – keep up this madness, or go back to being a sensible country.
The difference is, after 1975, the UK DID join the EU. THEN, there was another referendum. But not until after the result of the 1975 election was first implemented.
That’s very different from throwing a tantrum after 1975, and having revotes in ’76, ’77, ’78, ’79………, Until, finally, “The People” were sufficiently tired of it all, and voted the right way in 2016.
The UK should have left within a month or two of the 2016 referendum. Then, once the effect of that had sunk in, if it turned out the grass on the other side wasn’t so green after all, they could start contemplating another referendum again. But first, once a decision is made, follow through.
The British people expected a swift termination agreement and to see the wealth they sent to the E.U. invested in the U.K. instead.
The first of these hasn’t happened, and the other is being walked back by the loudest voice during the Referendum, Boris the new PM.
If in 2016 the Brits had an inkling of what 2017, 2018, and now 2019 would be like they’d have kicked the Brexiteers in the ass and told them to come back when they had a feasible plan.
As they should.
Or even better, once two months had gone by, and Brexit was still not consummated, the Brits should have burned parliament to the ground. With every foot dragging, double speaking pile of worthless garbage still inside. Literally, if necessary. Then left the EU the next day, and moved on, a better country, from there.
There is much more to it than that, much much more. The referendum for example was only held after joining EEC, I won’t go throught how UK and Ireland were maneuvered in without public choice,how the later referendum was rigged, it’s online in places for those who know how to search.
Eery similarity in fact to how power is being manhandled now re. Brexit.
You guys need to remember how America obtained its freedom from the Leeches of London…… And act accordingly. What you are doing now, obviously doesn’t work. And, per what you are saying, hasn’t worked since at before 1975. Or, perhaps 1776.
Themonosynaptic is wrong. In 1975 referendum we voted to join the Common Market. That has evolved (via Maastricht and Lisbon etc) into the EU as we now know it. Two very different entities.
Get your facts right. Yhe 1975 referendum was to decide whether the UK remained in the EEC or not.
A vote on an issue every generation doesnt seem unreasonable.
When “Rule of Law” is reduced to simple Newspeak for “Rule of entirely arbitrary law and even more arbitrary interpretation,” then why not? We’re talking about an outpost of the post civilized, insult-to-history West here, after all.
There is no Rule of Law in the UK, particularly Scotland; it has been replaced by Kritarchy … Rule by Judges.
Ditto the rest of The West.
When tens of thousands of pages of arbitrary mumbo-jumbo, cooked up by privileged middlebrows, are, by way of Newspeak, exalted to the status of “Law,” that’s the only end result you can ever hope to get.
Hence why the Jihadis, with their much more compact, hence widely comprehended, Law, are replacing The West as the inheritors of the earth.
Mish, No one is scared shitless. Most brexiteers seem to have buried their moral compass and can’t remember where it is. You may remember in one of your posts about the resignation of Mrs May and her possible successors I said that I hoped it was Boris. I did that for a reason. It has rolled out how I hoped. The people who are worried are the brexiteers, they fear that they’ve got the wrong person in charge, and they are right to fear this. By electing the liar the Tories made themselves the party of no deal brexit. There is no way that the liar’s proposals to the EU were a sincere attempt to get a deal. Our Prime Minister has just received an almighty thump in the guts. No 10 announced that he was going on a whistle stop tour to Berlin and Paris. Berlin and Paris announced that no one was going to talk to our PM because of scheduling difficulties. Diplomatic speak for Fck off. Now I think this shows where the power is and it is not in the UK. It is as stark as that. I think like you do that a no deal exit is still more likely than not, not because the liar will take us out but because the EU will say “We’ve had enough, fck off.” I think the pressure is on the Libdems to drop their objection to Corbyn and for the ex Tories to agree to vote for Corbyn in a VONC. It is either Corbyn or no deal because no deal is what will happen if the liar stays in place.
You keep calling Boris a liar. Isn’t that a prerequisite for a politician?
No the liar does it all day long, he can’t even lie straight in bed.
This is basically an admission that Remain is going to lose, Avid. No one outside of Labour is going allow Corbyn to become PM. If that is all that is left, then Brexit is coming sooner or later. Now, if Corbyn steps down, or agrees to allow someone else become PM, there might be a chance for Remain to win one last pyrrhic victory.
You believe the theater of the elitists. Just look at the two sides of the equation.
If they support Corbyn, that will probably push down their poll numbers. If the next election happens soon, LibDems would remain a small party and Tory rebels would lose seats in the Commons. PM Corbyn is expected go for an election as soon as possible after the Brexit extension, and the Tories will support it. It would take a very large rebellion among the MPs to postpone this move. But… Elitists will have the Brexit deadlock and they can use it to break up the constitutional order, legal institutions, election system, etc.
What happens if they let BoJo to deliver a “no deal” Brexit instead? The first reaction of remainers will be to blame their politicians. The LibDems have invested the most into this, they are set to lose the most. Labour has a popular domestic agenda and all the resources to survive. Maybe even Corbyn himself can get through, the hysteric blame game is not new to him at all. The two-party system remains and a great opportunity is lost.
Everyone has to understand that elitists don’t want to be one of the two major parties. They want to be the only party that matters. Look at the continent… Tactical retreat now can help this strategic goal.
Avid you live in fantasy land. There will be no vonc as all those that would call it know they would lose the resultant election and as Boris said, Christmas would come for the turkeys. The more desperate and absurd the remainer tactics get, the more he accrues votes. You should all give up and let the inevitable happen.
At last he addresses bojo as our prime minister and not liar. It is a start
Your inability to be able to read is astounding.
Good more surprises awaits
the EU saying ‘fuck off’ to the UK shows once again what a utterly, worthless, pedantic, out of touch, sore losers bunch the EU actually is ! The UK crashing out of the EU would mean a lot of trouble for german car manufacturers, belgian seaports will be out of work, spanish hotels empty, Italian fashion, French farmers suffering etc …The parasitic EU is such a empathic institute ! It s now or never : GET OUT OF THE FCKN EU MESS, you don t need it, NOBODY needs it , deluded if you think otherwise !
This is personal, the EU has told the liar to FCK OFF>
No it shows that they know they have the power to tell the liar to fck off and can do so with impunity. Harbinger of things to come. What is the use of sovereignity if it does not come with power?
Like the majority of remainers you are both delusional and woefully disrespectful of democracy. You never agreed with the decision to leave and now you support efforts to subvert democracy because it hasn’t served your objectives. You utter c#nt
I realise it is hard for you now that you have lost the argument.
“By electing the liar the Tories made themselves the party of no deal brexit.”
I’m struggling to see the reason for a Brexiteer to be worried. The complete removal of the EU parasite is exactly what we want. If anything, I’m still feeling smug.
“I think like you do that a no deal exit is still more likely than not,”
I’m still struggling to see the source of my supposed fears.
“They have the power to tell us to fuck off”
They’ve been doing that for decades, and it’s only recently changed. They are now open to renegotiating the deal, which they swore they would never do. That’s called ‘backing down’.
“It is either Corbyn or no deal”
Lol! Like I said in a previous post, I’m almost hoping that they’ll go down the VoNC route. They won’t, of course, but it would be hilarious to watch. Regardless of what they do, Brexit isn’t going away. They best you geniuses can manage at this point is to delay it, and given your displayed level of competence so far, I’m not having sleepless nights.
“What is the use of sovereignity [sic] if it does not come with power?”
There’s the implied concession there that EU members are not sovereign. Well done, I now see my previous replies to you have had some educational value.
Sovereignty IS power. The power to make all of our laws through our representatives. The power to police or own borders. The power to negotiate our own trade deals. The power over our territorial waters. EU sulking in no way negates this.
In the event of a no deal all treaties cease. All FTAs, MRAs and lesser trade deals cease. We go onto WTO terms that are imposed on us by default because our schedules have not been agreed by all members of the WTO. That means we are a third country to every WTO member. ( What will you give Argentina and Russia to make them agree to our terms? Why have Australia and New Zealand objected to our schedules? ) UK firms loose cabotage rights in Europe, do you have any Idea what that means for UK airlines, hauliers and any UK firms who use just in time? In order to export to the EU they would need a customs agent to handle the paperwork. They would need an EU firm to accept responsibility for UK exports and guarantee that any goods exported from the UK meet EU requirements. At the EU border VAT must be paid in cash. The UK would be out of the EU VAT arrangements and nobody knows how long it would take to reclaim these monies. Reclaimed or not 20% of the cash value of any goods exported from the UK to the EU lodged at the border will play havoc with companies’ cash flow. The Japanese, French, German and Italian ( Aston Martin if you didn’t know) car makers will leave. British Agriculture will take a massive hit- cf Professor Minford and Rees-Mog- the resulting unemployment will hit brexiteers most. You should be really scared about that and the effect on the voting intentions in the UK. Last but not least, nobody has been able to tell our Prime Minister to fuck off with impunity in our whole history. If you just have to take it and shut up as your hero has done then it shows absolute weakness and is shameful. Get used to being told what to do because that is the future you wish for yourself and your country. Shame on you.
“What will you give Argentina and Russia to make them agree to our terms?”
We don’t have to offer Argentina, or dozens of other countries, anything to trade with us. They have come to us asking for trade deals. And in what way do you think trade with Argentina or Russia will be worse than with the EU? Will Argentina demand billions of pounds every year just for the opportunity? Will even Putin insist on passing laws and tariffs over us?
Iceland, a volcano with a population the size of Leicester, has abandoned it’s ambitions to join the EU (Shock! Horror!) and signed a trade agreement with China instead. Has it been strip-mined for assets by predatory Chinese corporations? You know, like the EU did with Greece?
“nobody has been able to tell our Prime Minister to fuck off with impunity in our whole history”
I would point out that there is a long history of the EU telling us to ‘fuck off’ going at least as far back as 1963, but I sense it would be wasted effort.
“…your hero…”
Lol, wot? You’re not talking about Boris Johnson are you? The same Boris Johnson who voted in favour of Theresa May’s abortion of a deal?
That should tell you a couple of things about Boris, firstly that we leavers can’t trust him, and second that he wants a deal with the EU, but he wants one that’s acceptable to parliament.
If remainers really believed or cared about this economic apocalypse, you wouldn’t be acting as fifth columnists, undermining our negotiating position and snubbing the head of state of the world’s largest economy. An economy which, by the way, is one of those dozens of countries lining up at the door to do business with us.
“Get used to being told what to do because that is the future you wish for yourself and your country”
Yes, yes, yes, freedom is slavery, peace is war, etc, etc. Orwell would have had a field day with you lot. I recommend his ‘Notes on Nationalism’ to you. The man was truly a prophet.
“Shame on you”
Oh fuck off with your moralising you hysterical twat. You manage to be shrill even in written form, do you know that? Are you this guy?: https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-psychosis-diagnosed-in-the-uk/
Fact free as usual, no surprise there then, do you recognise hysteria when you feel it?
Sshhhh
Hear hear hear. Well do e
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