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Dear Lord Send Help, the Ark is Sinking and Tesla With It

Tesla TSLA weekly chart courtesy of StockCharts.Com annotations by Mish

Tesla shed another $14.05 on Tuesday, down 11.41% for the day. It is sitting on feeble support with weak support at $91. 

On a market cap basis, this is one of the biggest plunges in history but there is no reason at all to think it stops here.  

Tesla TSLA Monthly Chart 

Technically speaking, TSLA exploded out of a rising wedge in early 2013 then spent over 6 years in a horizontal channel.

Moves out of long periods of consolidation are typically huge and this was no exception. The share price blasted from $26 to $414 in less than 2 years. 

ARKK Plunges Below Support

ARKK monthly chart courtesy of StockCharts.Com annotations by Mish

What a Ride

Technically speaking, the ARKK picture looks even worse. ARKK plunged 20.54% on Tuesday, crashing through what I recently labeled strong support as if it that support was dust in the air. 

Now there is no monthly support for this sinking ship until the $16 level or so. Moreover, there is no fundamental reason to believe it will not drop that far. 

TSLA is one of the ARK ETF’s biggest holdings. Ironically, ARKK is so bad that TSLA is one of its better holdings. 

Tesla Demand Worries in China

Reuters reports Tesla Shares Extend Losses on Demand Worries in China

Tesla Inc shares fell 11.4% on Tuesday after a Reuters report that Tesla was planning to run a reduced production schedule in January at its Shanghai plant sparked worries of a drop in demand in the world’s biggest car market. 

It has lost more than half its value since the start of October as investors worry that Twitter was taking much of Chief Executive Elon Musk’s time while fretting about his stake sale in the electric-car maker.

The world’s most valuable automaker’s production cuts at the Shanghai plant come amid a rising number of COVID-19 infections in the country.

Tesla Used Car Bubble Pops

Making matters even worse, the Tesla Used Car Price Bubble Pops, Weighs On New Car Demand.

Tesla buyers who waited months for their new car have had an unusual choice for much of the past two years: keep the new electric vehicle, or sell it at a profit to someone with less patience. 

But the days of the Tesla flip are numbered – a potential threat to new car prices that are already getting cut. 

Prices of used Teslas are falling faster than those of other carmakers and the clean-energy status symbols are languishing in dealer lots longer, industry data provided to Reuters showed.

The average price for a used Tesla in November was $55,754, down 17% from a July peak of $67,297. The overall used car market posted a 4% drop during that period, according to Edmunds data. 

Nearly a third of used Teslas for sale in August were 2022 models up for resale, a sign that original buyers were aiming to flip, analysts said. That compares with about 5% of other brands on the used market, research firm Edmunds said.

Hoot of the Day

Flipping Teslas. What a hoot. 

And here’s another hoot. Tesla, which has disbanded its media relations department, did not respond to Reuters’ emailed questions.

Stonk Hodlers’ Mentality

Investing.com reports Third Point’s Loeb says Cathie Wood has ‘Stonk Hodlers’ Mentality

Billionaire investor Dan Loeb isn’t impressed with Cathie Wood, according to a tweet posted on Wednesday. Loeb, who runs New York-based Third Point, said Wood’s memo should be used “as a treatise to study the mindset of stonk hodlers.”

Delusion of the Day

ARRK fund manager Cathie Wood defends herself with a delusional post on Disruptive Innovation And Profitability.

For years, market pundits have been warning investors about “profitless tech”––companies ostensibly incapable of turning a profit. They describe stocks in ARK’s strategies as “concept capital” and suggest that our investment team either cannot distinguish profitable companies from unprofitable ones or seeks to invest in unprofitable companies. In our view, the companies in which we invest are sacrificing short-term profits to capitalize on the exponential growth and highly profitable opportunities that a number of innovation platforms are creating.

The delusion of the day award goes ARK founder Cathie Wood. 

As for “concept capital” Wood needs a clue. 

Tesla has steep competition coming up from the major car manufacturers. Teledoc is headed to zero in my estimation as are some of her crypto ideas. 

Wood’s Predictions

  • The price of bitcoin will hit $1 million by 2030, a roughly 6,000% increase from current levels.
  • Wood calls for Zoom, ARKK’s largest holding, to approach $1,500 a share in 2026. That is based in part on expectations of a worker backlash against returning to offices. Her bear case is for shares to trade at $700.

Cathie Wood’s Ark Open Source Model Predicts Tesla Shares Will Hit $4,600 by 2026

Please recall my April 18, 2022 post Cathie Wood’s Ark Open Source Model Predicts Tesla Shares Will Hit $4,600 by 2026

Her genomics portfolio may have some eventual winners but that space is a huge crap shoot.  

By 2030 ARK predicts a share price of about $22,500 equating to a market cap of roughly $22.5 trillion.

US Real GDP in 2021 was $19.8 Trillion.

ARK is predicting the valuation of Tesla will exceed the entire US real GDP by the early 2030s.

Yes, this is more than ridiculous. It also says something about ARK’s open source share price model. 

ARK Combined Top Holdings 

ARK has a number of ETF funds. Here are all All 129 Combined Ark Invest ETF Holdings, updated daily. 

Of the top 49, ARK is in the green on only 6: Tesla TSLA (barely), Veracyte (VCYT), Iridium Communications (IRDM), John Deere (DE), Cerus Corporation (CRUS), and Vertex Pharmaceuticals (VRTX). The price entries on the remainder are not listed.

EXAS is Wood’s top holding at 6.98 percent weigh. ARK owns 8.47 percent of EXAS.

ARKK Holdings 

Here is a link to the ARKK Holdings. There are only 30 in that group. Wood is in the green on 4 of those 30.

ARKG ETF Holdings 

ARKG is Wood’s biotech-genomics portfolio. Here is a link to the ARKG Holdings

It is possible Wood is harboring some big winners yet to come. If so they are likely to be in bio space. 

I know nothing about anything in this portfolio other than it’s possible for any biotech or genomics company to hit a home run. 

ARKW ETF Holdings

ARKW is Wood’s Web portfolio. Here is a link to the ARKW Holdings

The ARK ETFs are an amazing disaster no matter where you look. Tax loss selling likely impacted these funds.

Yet, there is no fundamental reason for a bounce on any of these turkeys. 

However, there is one thing we can do, pray.

Dear Lord Send Help!

And with Home Prices Falling in Every Major Market, please Lord, send help on that too. 

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

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99 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
In 2023 I will be offering shares in “a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is.” It’s a great opportunity that comes around after 303 years.
A note on used Teslas – why would I buy a vehicle with a $13,000 – $20,000 built-in, must be paid all at once, future liability?
tedr
tedr
3 years ago
Cathie Wood is an idiot and now her investors can finally see it for themselves.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
The investors are leaving, two by two.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Tesla has no plans to sale BEV vehicles that the bottom 85% can afford, so they deserve to go bankrupt and have their assets sold off to companies who will.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
I hear Tesla has some really big tents.
Perhaps a different circus will buy.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Classic head & shoulders top on the TSLA chart.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
So much clickbait between the blog post and comments these days Mish..
Anyway, I’m not sure why or how, but I had a feeling Elon Musk would fall from his perch. Every decade or so we get barons of “success” fall.
We are returning to the slow growth era of 2011-2016 but with more pain.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
“So much clickbait between the blog post and comments these days Mish.”
I was wondering if I’d ever get to the comments.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
Not sure who ever even stops to read this trash, never mind click on it. These ads must be sold for micro or nano cents each.
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
Now there is no monthly support for this sinking ship until the $16
level or so. Moreover, there is no fundamental reason to believe it will
not drop that far.
Wow really? $5/share in earnings is a pretty fundamental reason it won’t drop to $16. Yeah yeah I know we should expect losses not earnings.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
That’s what makes a market. Differences in opinion.
I am taking a stab at TSLA because it has dropped so much already. Yet it still isn’t cheap.
And whether it is cheap or expensive, doesn’t matter. Often, expensive stocks are loved and cheap ones are ignored. Example:
One of my largest positions is in Tourmaline Oil, TOU. Largest Natural gas producer in Canada. Sells a lot of natgas into high priced California and on long term, high priced LNG contracts. It is crushing it right now with huge cash flows. It has paid down its debt with this cash and is close to debt free now.
75 years of reserves. Minimal capex needed to produce. No need to add to reserves unless the right deal comes along. A cash flow machine. Just sit back and be rewarded.
Paid over 10% in dividends (regular and special) in the last 12 months and has increased dividend payouts every quarter for the last 6 quarters. I expect better than 12% dividends in 2023.
Yet it trades at a PE of 5. It does not have the growth potential of Tesla. Nor does it have the downside. But it should keep paying handsomely for decades. Particularly if oil and gas prices stay firm; which is what I expect.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Just wondering. Do you have any Texas Pacific Land Corp stock?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
No.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
The 800-pound elephant in the oil investment space would be the government that wants to completely get rid of the products these companies sell.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Agree. But when the choice is between addressing the short term problem of keeping the electricity flowing and the heat on, or the longer term problem of global warming, government chooses to solve the short term problem. As we have seen recently.
Oil and gas consumption is going to keep rising for the rest of this decade until we can dramatically increase the build out of renewables sometime in the next decade.
Which is why I am heavily invested in oil and gas. The transition that govt is supporting is actually making oil and gas more profitable.
BDR45
BDR45
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Thank you for the tip on Tourmaline Oil. I did some research and it looks very good. Best wishes and happy new year.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
$5/share earning for TSLA may not stop ARKK from falling to $16/share price.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
ARK may be finished indeed… Lemme tell you though that the whole fn world will be finished rather soon if the fn US of A is not willing to reconsider its by now anachronistic hegemonic position, so let go of your ‘exceptional nation status’ which you are no longer anyway, and maybe, just maybe the world will become a better place again…..with doubt in my fn mind of course we re only fn human after all ….
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
The U.S. is already retreating in slow motion. It will become a lot more apparent in another decade or so.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
pax amerika has not won a war since 1945 unless you count grenada. peak empire was 1945 to 1965. silver taken out of coins was a textbook marker of height of our empire. it’s been half a century in decline. yawn.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Pax America handily won the first Gulf war.
It’s possible it might have won in Afghanistan if it hadn’t stupidly invaded Iraq causing allied support to wane.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
There was no definition of “win” in Afghanistan.
The invasion happened but US never figured out what to do next.
You cannot win if there is no objective or prize.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Thats exactly what I told Putin when he shared with me his smo plans ….I said ,do what the fn americans do : carpet bomb, killing millions if necessary , then fn boots on the ground ! Idiot didn t pay attention ….TOO FN SOFT !
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
10 years. That’s being a little generous.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Lots of inertia. It’ll take a long time.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Rice and Beans. Nothing glamourous, just rice and beans.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
i love rice and beans.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
And corn. Corn is good.
Too much BS
Too much BS
3 years ago
Arks Boom went Bust . Cathie’s bubble popped and blew away everyones stash..https://youtu.be/DcVQQ_uVRIk
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Tesla is inconsequential by comparison to SpaceX. Tesla has no technology advantage, and Musk’s politics have turned off the worshippers. The multiple will drift down and wind up matching the auto industry. SpaceX is a completely different story. It’s going to be the biggest money gusher in human history. To the extent that a TSLA crash winds up making shares in SpaceX cheaper than they’d otherwise be once it goes public, that will be a good thing. Other than that, I don’t care.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
SpaceX fortune depends on the value of space in the future.
In splurge time like we have had, it’s to the Moon and Mars.
In times of misery, it’s down to Earth.
There’s $hitload of accumulating problems down here, and SpaceX is not a solution to any of them.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
SpaceX is all about Starlink. I chuckle at those who don’t see it, but that’s an old story.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Starlink is DOA other than as a niche product for an ever decreasing rural population. If you want to know why, take a look at Direct TV and why it’s got an ever decreasing number of subscribers. No one wants (and many can’t have) a satellite dish / equipment attached to their home, nor does anyone want slower and less reliable internet once they’ve had terrestrial fiber.
It’s only future is as a military product in which case it will simply be nationalized for security purposes.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
If you’re not urban you can forget terrestrial fiber.
Then again, the Democrats control the cities, so there’s that.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
True. But at the moment 80% of the US population is considered Urban (my parents who live in the country 10 miles outside a small city of 50K have fiber and they are consider Urban because they fall within the city limits) and that number is increasing all the time.
So its hard to grow a business when the customer base is ever decreasing.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
If you actually think Starlink is there so rural dwellers can get a better Pornhub connection, you’re hopeless.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Agreed. SpaceX isn’t going to save the world. Having a global constellation of SATs providing high speed data access won’t matter if there’s a nuclear or bioweapon Armageddon. And, it’s not like they last all that long. 5 years is about all it takes for them to fall out of orbit.
Be that as it may, I’m fine with Tesla going bankrupt. Musk has not interest in selling mass appeal vehicles.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
It’s not really about high-speed data, notwithstanding that being the first application. I laugh at the geniuses here who haven’t noticed that they just got approval for using it for cellular phones. Oh, and that one’s really not about the industrialized world. Let’s see: 1.5 billion Chinese. 1.3 billion Indians. 500 million in Pakistan and Indonesia, combined. It goes on. Do you just kinda sorta think that there are big gaps in cellular networks? You’re not that blind, are you?
Maybe you need an analogy. Why was Windows so important? The graphical user interface? Nope, not at all. It was all about vastly increasing the number of applications. Most great investment stories are onions. More and more ways to peel them. Was Standard Oil about safe and reliable kerosene? In fact, it was. That was the first application, and it got the company off the ground. There were other applications. any more that I could spend an entire day listing multi-billion dollar applications. Safe kerosene is still one of them, by the way. First one, and it still makes money.
People here who fail to see that 44,000 LEO satellites circling the entire globe are about a whole lot more than internet in rural America are wearing blinders. Kids, can you really be that stupid? Wait! Don’t answer that! LOL
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Tesla? Who cares?! By the way, I made some dough playing it. But really, it’s nothing. They were the first entrant, like Compaq computer or something. They have no special sauce. The second entrants will make (or lose) the big bucks on EVs. Starlink has enduring, defensible competitive barriers, and a huge array of highly profitable applications to come. I eager await the day they take it public. EVs are boring, and only idiots waste time arguing about them. Same goes for Twitter, which was Musk’s worst mistake.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Min_Max is right. The bear markets in the 1970’s halted trips to the moon.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug, media has had it backwards since the very beginning.
It should be Machine Intelligence and Artificial Learning.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
How about Artificial Machine and Learning Intelligence (AMLI) ?
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
I went through Mish’s history of posts (only this site, not any of his earlier manifestations). I wanted to see if I could find any posts where he belittles Obama in the title, and spends all/the bulk of the article ridiculing Obama. I didn’t find any, even though Obama did just as many stupid things as any other President. When Obama did something stupid, Mish attributed it to nebulous bureaucrats or agencies — it was never Obama’s fault.
There are dozens of articles ridiculing Trump in the title and the bulk of the post. It was never the fault of unnamed bureaucrats or agencies, Mish obsessed over Trump.
There are no posts where Biden is the subject of ridicule in the title, and the bulk of the text. Once again, nebulous bureaucrats or the Fed or some faceless agency are to blame. Trump is no longer President, but this week Trump got a whole post dedicated to ridiculing him. Not faceless campaign managers, its 100% Trump’s fault.
When anyone in the Trump circle does something stupid, Mish pounces on Trump. When Biden himself gets lost and confused on stage, his handlers are to blame not Biden. Is this equal treatment?
Trump was the only President in the last 50 years to avoid getting involved in new wars. Its not much, but its something. Biden has been taking bribes his entire life, and now he has dementia. Can Mish say something nice about Trump, and something bad about Biden? Just once?
Mish’s other favorite punching bag is Cathy Woods. There are lots of terrible asset managers in the US, and around the world. But if you only read Mish’s blog, you would think Cathy is single handedly to blame for all the financial market’s excesses. All the other asset shucksters are mentioned as a nameless, faceless group. Its Cathy’s fault, and some faceless others.
I don’t like Trump or Cathy…. but I am just not buying into this vilification of one person when I know the problems are more widespread and very bi-partisan
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Huh – Maybe the Democrats are more. . . Democratic and thus exist in a space of distributed and bureaucratic power. While Trump existed in a strongman, jump when I say jump, aggregated power mode? So when Democrats are in power the bureaucracy fails and when strongmen are in power the strongman fail. . . or rarely succeed (but it is all a Kleptocracy at this point in my view (forgive the spelling)). All that is happening is to pin the tail on the “correct” donkey.
I know numerous people within the US bureaucracy that took their retirements with Trump in office because of his attempts to modify the bureaucracy to his personal taste. Anecdotal, I know, but it happened nonetheless.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  SAKMAN
The federal bureaucracy is bloated and overpaid. If headcount were reduced by one million people, it would still be over staffed. You enjoy pensions and job security and short hours and benefits that no one in the private sector gets. You are spoiled, lazy and corrupt.
Overdue for the federal bureaucracy to get “right sized” like the private sector was decades ago.
We elected Trump to fire lots of you bureaucrats, and we didn’t re-elect him because he played with you instead of firing you.
The UAW thought they could screw over the public, and you saw what happened…. you federal union people are next. If Trump won’t fire you, we will find someone else who will.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
I really dont understand your post and I think that the use of “you” may be at the root of the problem.
Support of eventual dictators in the public or private sector is an error. Appropriate checks must be put in place otherwise the hero worshiping nature of humans will create a dictator.
Perhaps a large bureaucracy is not the best “check”, but there must be an answer to the fact that humans and life in general seeks to control ALL accessible space and prevent change once the control is realized.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  SAKMAN
YOU (hope that is offensive) like to claim Trump is a facist or nazi or whatever nonsense, without providing a shred of evidence. He’s quite an a-hole, and I would never meet him after work for drinks or befriend him, but the dictator crap is just media hype.
If you want to see nazi like behavior… the nazis burned books and censored political opposition. So Google and Facebook (and pre Musk Twitter) are run by actual nazis, or at least people who behave like nazis.
Anthony Fauci decided to conduct medical experiments on people who did not vote for him. He funded gain of function research in a lab known for leaks. Then he imposed lock-downs — non-essential businesses (ones that didnt pay bribes) were shut down. Then he tried to force everyone to get a shot (that paid him royalties) when any competent doctor would have focused on obesity. Fauci is a nazi.
The FBI was supposed to be a law enforcement agency, but acts like a gestapo or SS brigade. They fabricated evidence, they withheld exculpatory evidence, and they tampered with evidence. The FBI are nazis.
Trump hasn’t broken any laws (see the Mueller report and countless other attempts to convict him of anything). Trump is just a regular old a-hole…. Not unlike countless other politicians
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  SAKMAN
SAKMAN wrote “I know numerous people within the US bureaucracy that took their retirements…”
*YOU* (hopefully offensive!!) keep company with the bureaucrats. YOU (offensive!) are known by the company you keep.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Ah I see, you were intending to write something intelligent. Then you were intending to insult me.
You have failed on both accounts. Based on your existing failures, I can only expect a future pattern of the same. Enjoy your hubris while it serves you.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
I couldn’t possibly care less about Mish’s politics. That part of what he does bores me, and I rarely get involved.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
it s all about them fn clicks dude , and we are the fn game, idiots rather , biting the fn bait in our endless quest for fn info, whether biased or fn biased ….
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Yup. I think Mish has some decent stuff mixed in with his partisan click-bait. But the mix this week keeps sliding toward the partisan clicks, and away from the meat.
This week is xmas break. We are all indulging in click bait and too much food and too much sugar and all sorts of things that are bad for us.
Next week its back to reality. Can Mish be less biased? Or should MishTalk be filed with the click bait and mostly sugar foods?
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Don t know about you , I ve been on this blog for years now , trust me, Mish ain’t that bad a guy….
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
bully bully. i don’t come here for mish’s political insights, but he’s very even handed in dishing out the disgust with them all, if you ask this fella who hasn’t vote D or R at president or federal office level since the 80s.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Just this weekend, the democrat Nancy Pelosi, the democrat Chuck Schumer and the democrat Biden passed a $1.7 trillion boondoggle… and Mish’s title was all about how the republicans capitulated on health care. Nothing in the title about the party that (this month) controls the house, senate and oval office.
There are many things I don’t know about, and I guess I am supposed to trust Mish to be fair and accurate? Here is a topic that is widely known and he is biased and partisan. It makes me wonder about his fairness and accuracy on other topics
LostNOregon
LostNOregon
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
And yet, here you are. Looks like you could spend your time more profitably somewhere else, yes?
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  LostNOregon
You are 100% right about that. Its Xmas break, and I’m indulging in some click bait. Next week, its back to reality.
Biased web sites have limited (or zero) value. Is that the reputation Mish wants to cultivate?
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Did someone steal your account?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Don’t say bad things about Saint Barack or you will find yourself in bed with no supper.
Saint Joe too. God must love fools, he made so many of them.
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Not many people are talking about the solar side of Tesla. Solar is getting hit hard. California governor Newsome’s utility committee just passed NEM 3 which allows electric companies to only pay you $.08/kwh while charging your neighbor $.30/kwh for the exact same electricity.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
The guts of Tesla’s solar panels are made in China. The rare earth materials also come from abroad (many from China).
What are the odds the Chinese government will prioritize a US company above one of their own?
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Zero. However I’ve never heard of any supply restraints yet for Tesla Solar.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
As long as Tesla solar remains a novelty ice cream, the Chinese will take its money.
If Tesla Solar ever became a viable threat to China’s own companies…
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
I don’t know about the specific numbers, but when I built our house in the countryside I had God’s own open mind about everything including solar. California is doing the right thing (wow, who knew?!) by withdrawing net metering. On average, 55%-60% of electric utility costs go for maintaining the distribution grid, which by the way is used by 90%+ of all panel users, and utility administration.

Net metering acts as if the only thing a utility does is generation, and effectively subsidizes solar panel users and sticks their costs onto everypne else, even though panel users tend strongly to be considerably more affluent than the average person. I don’t know what CA’s generation costs are, but from what I’ve read they are higher than 8 cents/kWh. Panel users should be paid the wholesale rate and nothing more.

As for the “solar side” of Tesla, you’re talking about the roof tiles and the batteries. Both of those things are a joke. Tesla’s car business is cash flow and GAAP earnings positive. The “solar side” is tiny, and doesn’t make money.

Portlander2
Portlander2
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
California isn’t withdrawing net metering, just changing it. But the changes will mean less benefits for new interconnections starting April 2023. What will happen (as happened in Germany, Hawaii and elsewhere after net metering was neutered) is that more rooftop solar owners will resort to battery energy storage to compensate. California is now providing incentives for battery storage. Eventually, solar + batteries owners will be able to sell their surplus into the California capacity market run by the CAL-ISO during peaks. California needs much more storage due to the large amount of solar and wind on their energy grid, so this makes sense. It will badly hit the residential rooftop solar market, though.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Portlander2
CA looks like they’re ending net metering for new customers. As for batteries, it’s obvious to me that you haven’t priced them out. I have, and I laughed. I could give details, but my experience is that once someone’s drunk the Kool Aid, no one will change their “mind,” such as it is. LOL
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
I am not so worried about ARKK, rather by pension funds having a similar portfolio. What could be different when everybody was betting on the same horses?
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
its hilarious that suckers… I mean citizens… entrusted their retirements to the shysters in Washington DC. There were no used car salesmen or snake oil salesmen available for the job?
The biggest con ever pulled on America was when FDR promised Social Security. FDR could (and did!) hustle a lot of suckers. PT Barnum could have learned a lot from FDR
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Typically, the bigger a Ponzi scheme, the longer it may last.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Pepsi anyone? I have no other advice.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
‘Support’ hits the fan… aka low-hanging fruit meets sentiment.
urtau
urtau
3 years ago
The ARK family of ETFs – Disrupting retirements since 2021.
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
Tesla was down 11% yesterday because widespread covid in China is affecting production and demand, so there are serious doubts they can meet expectations in the coming months. ARKK was NOT down 20% yesterday, you must have misplace a decimal point.
FlyNavy1
FlyNavy1
3 years ago
Simple pair trade: Short TSLA, Long GM. Not sexy but should generate some alpha on P/E ratio convergence alone.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  FlyNavy1
GM gets interesting around $20-22 (currently around $33). Keep in mind GM hit $11 on July 1, 2008
How much is Tesla really worth?
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Ford has a better chance of survival than Govt Motors, and GM has a better chance of survival than Tesla. GM makes more money on financing cars than it does on cars — GM is a bank, and even as a bank it needs regular bailouts. Tesla makes novelty cars for trust fund babies and celebrities, and the biggest drivers of Tesla’s “success” (batter energy density, power grid) are outside Tesla’s control.
I would not bet any of my retirement money on Ford.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
IMO, it’s hard to say what will happen with GM in about 3-5 years. I believe they’re rushing too fast down the BEV path. With battery materials costs expected to remain high, I just don’t see them making the battery pack cost reductions they predicted 3-4 years ago, when they made the decision to start ending ICE car production and moving rapidly towards BEVs. The average new car sales price is above $45K, I believe. And just like Mish reported recently, Joe Consumer has, on avg, a $600 Rav4 payment. Be that as it may, I think a company like Toyota is much better positioned. With a looming recession, higher than expected inflation, & potential cart before the horse charging issues coming home to roost, it’s possible GM has misjudged how quickly US consumers are willing to jump on the BEV train.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
It’s possible GM has misjudged how quickly US consumers are willing and able to jump on the BEV train.
2 points:
1. EVs are expensive to purchase.
2. People may not enough money to buy any car with avg cost of 45k with high interest rate
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
GM has gone all-in for EVs. It won’t end well.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Musk and a few others have been very vocal about the Fed lowering rates. the “tell” from their interest rate whining tells me that their success was largely predicated on cheap money. If you see any “billionaire” whining about interest rates then you know they are leveraged and in debt to the hilt and it’s only a matter of time before the debt crushes them. This was true in the dot com era as it is now.
Look up “Barron’s Burning Fast” and it will find an article about how the dot com bubble burst when the cheap money ran out and that’s starting to happen now. Add to the dot com bust, a housing bust and it a bond bust and it could all come crashing down.
Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
There is no way Tesla or any EV venture is going to be worth much (actual value, not bubble stock) for another 20-25 years, and it might be 30-35 years. This is a function of energy density in batteries, and power grids (all over the G20) that have been neglected for 50 years. There is nothing Musk or GM or Toyota or Mercedes or anyone else can do — especially given the massive debts and electrician shortages (I’m saying “electrician” as shorthand for all the blue collar workers needed to rebuild a grid).
I don’t think Tesla’s EV technology (distinct from auto-crash or styling) is as good as Mercedes or Toyota. Tesla is about on par with Audi/Porshe,VW, Govt Motors, Tata Motors, and a whole smorgasbord of Chinese companies. Even if I’m wrong and Tesla could otherwise beat its entrenched and better financed competitors … how likely is it to survive 25 years as-is, until the tech becomes viable? Tesla does not have the financial staying power.
Let’s say Musk finds someone willing to bet against the incumbants and finance his car company for 25+ years of sideways performance. If you are one of the Musk religion faithful, you might say Tesla will be worth $1000 in 25 years. I’m just picking $1000 as a nice round number, my actual guess of Tesla’s future value is zero.
Lets discount $1000 at 1% for 25 years … ($1000 / (1.01^25)) = $779.77
Discount the same $1000 at 5% for 25 years … ($1000/(1.05^25)) = $295.30
So even if we pretend Tesla gets the financing to be able to stay alive for 25 years against entrenched competitors (which is not a sure thing), Tesla’s stock would only be worth 37.9% as much — given that Uncle Sam is $31 Trillion in debt and *MUST* (has no choice) run 5-6% inflation for the next 25 years to whittle down its debts. Inflation is going to prevail, no matter what academic bullsh!t anyone writes about money supply or federal revenues, because inflation is the only way Uncle Sam can pay its bills. The entire G7 is in the same boat. The Fed cannot engineer fake zero interest rates indefinitely anymore than England (the previous global power) or Zimbabwe (a nation run according to academic theory) could.
Like battery energy density and neglected power grids, Tesla / Musk can’t do anything about G7 indebtedness. This is on top of Tesla having a P/E multiple much higher than competitors who are more likely to survive — Tesla will suffer PE contraction as well. Government Motors can continue to sell gasoline powered cars while they wait — Tesla cannot.
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
I agree with most of what you said. I also think that Tesla’s biggest enemy is saturation.
Because Tesla was the EV pioneer, they got to benefit the most out of all other EV companies. However, until efficiencies drastically change, I feel EVs will have reached it’s market saturation point in 2023.
With Elon running Tesla, his ego doesn’t allow him to make friends with politicians. Instead, he moves to tax friendly states like Texas. He also exposes the conspiring in big tech with Twitter. With this behavior I doubt Tesla will qualify for the next big round of bailouts the government gives to automakers.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy

You could say that we are past the peak of inflated expectations?

Mouse
Mouse
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Elon will (and is) getting plenty of federal bailout money. The US military just hired SpaceX to build “warLink” (I don’t care what the name is), a war focused version of starLink. NASA has hired SpaceX to launch all sorts of things over the next decade.
SpaceX has designed better rocket engines and different fuel. SpaceX has better control systems and actually reusable rockets. SpaceX is doing a lot of the stuff that NASA promised (but failed) to do 20 years ago. SpaceX is innovative, Tesla is not.
Agree that Government Motors will get bailout money over Tesla. Tesla sells novelty cars to celebrities and trust fund babies. Govt Motors already has its suckers plugged into the federal budget.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Mouse
Everyone who makes an EV is getting Federal bailout money in the form of credits for buying an EV. Those companies are just raising prices to eat the value of the EV credit so instead of the consumer getting it, the car company is. That’s why there is a huge rush to put out EVs and get the free money.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Tesla’s biggest enemy is the fact that they appear to have no plans to make affordable (whatever that really means) BEVs. For the foreseeable future, they are catering to the high-end consumer. And at least publicly, they appear to have no solid-state battery tech in the works. Hopefully, this isn’t the case. Companies like CATL & Quantum Scape will pioneer solid state batteries over the next 3-5 years, moving from the lab to commercially available products. Granted, large scale production is probably 10 years out, so Tesla does have time to adjust. It’s funny though how they announced the 4680 battery over two years ago, but still aren’t shipping it in large numbers.
LawrenceBird
LawrenceBird
3 years ago
I was considering buying if it got to around $60 but perhaps even that is too soon. $40 seems a better risk/reward entry point. There are probably a lot of people still trying to buy the dip(s) into year end who are going to be chasing bids lower in January.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
As I mentioned recently, I am going to start nibbling at some tech stocks, using the substantial amount of dividends I am now receiving from oil and gas stocks. Haven’t owned any tech for at least 2 years now. Probably not the bottom yet, but I don’t mind. Given how far many tech stocks have already dropped.
Bought a bit of Tesla ($110) and Apple ($129) yesterday. Hope they keep dropping so I can buy at even cheaper levels. Or they can bounce up big and I can pocket some quick gains.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
A better way to do it is to sell naked puts for even lower prices. For apple, the January 2023 $120 strikes are selling for $1.55. You could have sold 10 contracts for $1550 and sit and wait to see what happens on January 20. If apple drops below $120 you have a margin call and buy 1000 shares at $120. If apple stay above $120, you keep the premium and sell next month’s expiry. rinse and repeat. Wait, profit, wait, profit and eventually buy shares even lower.
I am sitting mostly in cash (rolling T-bills) right now with a few oil & gas stocks. I expect further deterioration in the market throughout 2023.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
For some, 10 round lots, 1000 shares is more than a bit.
Just out of curiosity MPO45, do you buy 100 shares of Berkshire-Hathaway in one trade?
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
I think you may have plenty of opportunity to keep buying Tesla at lower prices. It’s a car company selling at 20 times earnings! A lot of competition coming in the EV market that should lower margins. Lower margins and a PE more like a car company (Ford has PE of 5) should give you plenty of room to the downside.
Apple – I just don’t know. I’ve owned this a while. Was too stupid to sell all at 180. Sold some at 170 but missed selling more.
By the way, I’m usually wrong.
desertsteve
desertsteve
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
Don’t feel bad Matt, almost everyone is wrong. No one knows what the market will do despite everyone’s best efforts to gauge it. Some better than others but no one really knows.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
3 years ago
Reply to  desertsteve
It is time to spend more time with our families and look at the horde we have accumulated in the last 11 years.
I’m not chasing anything right now except connection with people. Sitting on T-bills reading some news and going on bike rides in December. Not a care in the world. . . I can’t out think all the smart people trying to make a buck in this market.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
With few exceptions, competition WILL lower margins. Apple is one of the exceptions, though I suspect that will change with a slower innovation rate.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
Sold the Tesla on the early bounce and bought it back after it dropped. Repeated that 4 times today. Back to my original position by the close.
Did nothing with the Apple position. No rush to buy or sell.
Still just dipping my toes at this point. Looking at Netflix now as well. Maybe tomorrow. Lots of time to wait for bargains.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Well, we’re getting an idea of how much time you spend at the screens Papa. 😉
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker

Every day is different. Some days I trade a lot. Some, a little. Some, nothing at all. Have to live a balanced life.

Sold and bought Tesla twice today. Bought Netflix at the open and have sold it already. Busy with other things now.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
They are tempting at these prices but not yet. There will be ample time.

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