Don’t Miss a Post. Subscribe now.

Ability to Read, Write, or Do Math Is No Longer Required to Teach in New Jersey

Teachers’ unions prevail in New Jersey. Kids will suffer.

Literacy Not Required to Teach

Adobe Stock Image from article below. I added 1 + 1 = ?

CampusSafety reports New Jersey Teachers No Longer Required to Pass Basic Literacy Test

New Jersey Democratic Governor Phil Murphy passed Act 1669 as part of the state’s 2025 budget in June to address a teacher shortage, Read Lion reports. The law went into effect on Jan. 1, 2025. Individuals seeking an instructional certificate will no longer need to pass the Praxis Core Test, a basic skills test for reading, writing, and math that is administered by the state’s Commissioner of Education.

“We need more teachers,” Democratic Sen. Jim Beach, who sponsored the bill, said in May 2024 when the chamber cleared the bill in a 34-2 vote. “This is the best way to get them.”

New York, California, Arizona Lower Teacher Requirements

In 2017, New York also scrapped its basic literacy requirements for teachers, noting it was meant to increase diversity among teachers. According to the NEA, only about half of New York students in grades three through eight tested proficient in English and math during the 2022-2023 school year despite the state spending almost twice the national average on education.

California and Arizona also lowered requirements for teacher certification by implementing fast-track options for substitute teachers to become full-time educators and eliminating exam requirements to make up for shortages in the field that were worsened by the pandemic, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Former Educator Gives Opinion on Eliminating Teacher Literacy Exams

Erika Sanzi, former educator and current director of outreach at Parents Defending Education, a national grassroots organization, spoke to the National News Desk about why she is against Act 1669.

“It’s important to know that the teachers union, specifically in this case, the NEA, pushes really hard for this. I’m a former member of the NEA in two states. Generally, whatever they push for, tends to be something that’s not particularly good for students,” said Sanzi. “The NEA wants to eliminate all barriers to teaching because that increases their number of dues-paying members, and when that’s your mission, student learning and quality control really aren’t priorities at all and so that’s a concern, for sure.”

Blue State Union Corruption

Blue state union corruption is obvious.

But no place is worse than Chicago when it comes to making sure unions are first and kids are last.

March 13, 2024: Chicago Teachers’ Union Seeks $50 Billion Despite $700 Million City Deficit

If you live in Illinois, get the hell out before unions take every penny you have.

July 2, 2024: In Chicago There’s Under a 50 Percent Chance Police Show Up If You are Shot

Good luck in Chicago getting the police to show up if you are shot, stabbed, a victim of domestic violence, or any number of other serious crimes.

November 25, 2024: When Do Mayor Brandon Johnson and the City of Chicago Finally Implode?

Chicago slashed 2,103 public safety job but added 184 administrators. The budget deficit is nearly $1 billion.

December 23, 2024: The Corruption and Incompetence of Chicago’s Mayor Has No Bounds

Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson stepped to new lows when his hand-picked board fired Chicago Public Schools (CPS) CEO Pedro Martinez without cause.

Diversity and Union Priority vs Kids

The New Jersey teachers’ unions say the test is unneeded.

But if the test not needed, then then every teacher would easily pass. Why do so many fail an easy test?

In Chicago, Mayor Brandon Johnson sacrifices police, safety, and education for the sake of the teachers’ unions.

The Chicago mayor is easily the worst mayor in the country.

Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

Comments to this post are now closed.

105 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Suza
Suza
1 year ago

Though some may have a good heart, you will not have teachers but babysitters.

Together we stand
Together we stand
1 year ago

Actually, it never was, it’s just official now. Cattle don’t need to be able to read or write is what your Khazar Masters say!

Ben
Ben
1 year ago

Teacher shortage? I would think they could find them among the 1 million of brand new foreign residents they now have.

Suza
Suza
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben

Good point.

BeijingYank
BeijingYank
1 year ago

How else are the teachers’ unions going to promote DEI hiring?

Richard
Richard
1 year ago

Teachers should be rewarded based upon their students’ success or improvements, shouldn’t they? Instead teachers are rewarded for what these days? I could see maybe not requiring advanced degrees, but not requiring a basic skills test for a teacher? Doing away with the test doesn’t increase the number of qualified teachers, it just makes it easier for those lacking the basic skills to teach! Oh well.

eckbach
eckbach
1 year ago

New Jersey passed Act 1669 to bring themselves back there.

Counter
Counter
1 year ago

I lived in China for awhile and briefly taught English to students. When people bring up the education system I ask them if they want to know how China does it. The schools are setup in a way that promotes competition. There are no school taxes, if you have a kid you have to pay for their education. Families want to send their kids to the best schools they can. No school districts. Schools compete against other schools and the tuition is higher in the best schools. Better teachers get paid higher wages. Here the better and worse get paid the same. Also way more holidays.

Webej
Webej
1 year ago

We have been suffering inflation going back to the sixties.
Inflation is truly getting out of hand.
Inflation in anything of value, including tests, credentials, degrees, awards, trophies, morals, virtue, integrity, competence, honesty, quality, and money/credit.
Unless you believe that things can trend infinitely, trends will reverse.

VeldesX
VeldesX
1 year ago

“We need more teachers,” Democratic Sen. Jim Beach, “This is the best way to get them.”

Hard to argue that. There’s not much more money to raise salaries and attract talent to the profession, so dropping standards is the only way to fill desperately needed positions.

Suza
Suza
1 year ago
Reply to  VeldesX

It won’t be teaching.

John CB
John CB
1 year ago

Demographics is the underlying factor, and it’s the one that can’t be discussed except in code-language, e.g., “DEI.” To your list of educational failures, please add Maryland, where reading and math proficiency levels have a remarkable inverse correlation with violent crime numbers. Money can’t fix IQ.

Thetenyear
Thetenyear
1 year ago

Another nail in the coffin of public school. RIP

Rinky Stingpiece
Rinky Stingpiece
1 year ago

That’s why educational success is rising… all you have to do, is lower the threshold.

L Garou
L Garou
1 year ago

Glorified Marxist day care centers.

Sean Paula
Sean Paula
1 year ago

I’ve always referred to the Praxis Core Test as the retard test. I got laid off from the construction industry in my mid-twenties during the GFC and went back to school to be a math teacher. Before you could be accepted to your universities education department you had to pass this test (for any university in PA). If you can read, do arithmetic and make an argument anyone should be able to pass this with a breeze first attempt. Anyone who cannot pass this test should not be in the classroom. Now I had to take a math specific praxis test after the aforementioned praxis test. That took a little studying and a second attempt for me. It had basic calculus and statistics (standard normal distribution), matrices and what not on it but I still passed it on the second attempt before I completed my calculus classes.

Stu
Stu
1 year ago

Well “IF” you can Read, then you can know what they are up to, and “IF” you can write, then you can demand answers in writing, and “IF” you can do math, They’re screwed!!!

They’re not stupid for pushing this for ultimate control, as it will accomplish such, but it’s the Canadians that are stupid, if they go along with this. They will be “Controlled” as a result…

Bobbo
Bobbo
1 year ago

I graduated from UCSD in 1993 — back in the day when the economy still experienced business cycle recessions. I had a history degree and excellent grades, but the job market was terrible. At first I thought I would just teach for a year or two until the job market improved. But NO: To teach in the State of California, I needed to get a teaching credential first. To get the credential, I would lose a year, and go deeper in debt — just to qualify for an underpaying job. Screw that. So instead I went to law school. Yes, that meant going even deeper into debt, but with better tools to get out of debt once I entered the job market.

The certification requirement is a joke. It discourages the most highly qualified people from becoming teachers. Rather than certification, I would prefer a test, and only a test.

VeldesX
VeldesX
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobbo

I’ve got another 5 years in teaching before… who knows. I’m not going back to school for 2 years to get a Master’s Degree, which is required to be fully certified in CT. No way. I’m counting on a horrific teacher shortage to finally make the CT Assembly reverse this stupid requirement. Some politician passed it 10 years ago under the slogan “We’re doing this for the kids” but it was really to pay off patrons in the Universities who benefited from forcing thousands of teachers into their clutches.

Nyguy
Nyguy
1 year ago
Reply to  Bobbo

Graduated same year, same school with degree in applied math/scientific programming and the job market did indeed suck back then. Got a part time job at SIO that eventually became full time but put in a lot of over time. 90% of my friends left SD after graduating, COL too high and few jobs then.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
1 year ago

The Most Jabbed Countries in the World have the Highest Cancer Rates and it’s a Landslide
Source: World Population Review. Australia: 462.5 vs. 35.9 Sierra Leone Cancer Rate per 100K
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1300,h_650,c_fill,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep,g_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe03a5ea8-73e6-4eed-ac3c-f5a8cb255702_1422x798.jpeg

Jackula
Jackula
1 year ago

Sad but I’ve seen this kinda stuff in LA.

Sharing my personal story: having been very disenchanted with the public school where I live here in SoCal, the district was in state receivership, we chose to homeschool our daughter. She completed her undergrad at UCLA and was the editor in chief of the law review journal at the law school she attended. Now a federal lawyer.

She knew a bunch of young African American women that went to the local honors high school. Every last one that went to college dropped out.

My theory on the biggest negative impact on the public school systems is when all of the mothers entered the workforce they no longer had time for the PTA. With limited policing by the parents the school boards and teacher’s unions ran amok, especially in large cities. That’s why as a semi-progressive I support school choice including charter schools and up to vouchers. Competition is good..

Patrick
Patrick
1 year ago

If teachers can no longer read, write or perform simple math, they can surely empathize more with their students who cannot do any of the above. What do we need all of these white supremacist patriachy ableist discriminatory lessons? Empathy is about emotional intelligence. Feel me?

Peace
Peace
1 year ago

So, so easy.

AI can solve.

Sunriver
Sunriver
1 year ago

Just print more money.

An educated work force is of no matter or value to the United Staes. Fifteen million new illegal aliens can attest to that.

Feeding liquidity into an overvalued, highly speculative equity market, should be the only measure tof our success as a country.

High debt and an uneducated populace is our new norm and it will not matter; until it does.

By then, those responsible will be dead.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
1 year ago
Reply to  Sunriver

I expect long-term interest rates to remain high. This will be a problem for new investments of all kinds and for governmental borrowing.
In Section 2 of this post, I tried to explain that a peak-oil impact is likely to be inflation. This occurs because ramping up debt to try to stimulate the economy no longer works to get additional cheap energy products from the ground. Instead of getting as many finished goods and services as hoped for, the added debt tends to produce inflation instead.

I believe that we are reaching a stage of fossil-fuel depletion where it is becoming increasingly difficult to ramp up production, even with added investment. Because of the added debt added in an attempt to work around depletion, inflation in the price of finished goods and services can be expected. Investors are beginning to see long-term inflation as a likely problem. As a result, they are starting to demand higher long-term interest rates to compensate for the expected decrease in buying power.

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2025/01/05/an-energy-and-the-economy-forecast-for-2025/

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
1 year ago
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Governments are also adversely affected. They tend to hold large amounts of debt that they have accumulated over a period or years. Up until 2020, much of this added debt often was at a very low interest rate. As more long-term debt at higher interest rates is added, annual interest rate payments tend to rise rapidly. This can cause a need to raise taxes. Japan, especially, would be affected by higher interest rates because of its high level of government debt, relative to GDP.

Higher interest rates will also raise costs for citizens trying to finance the purchase of homes, and for investors wanting to build wind turbines or solar panels. In fact, investment in any kind of factory, pipelines, or electricity transmission will tend to become more expensive.

In a sense, we seem to be seeing the peak oil problem shifting in a way that affects interest rates and the economy in general. Either higher interest rates or higher oil prices will tend to push the economy toward recession. We tend to look for rising prices to signal an oil supply problem, but perhaps that only works when there is excessive demand. If the problem is really inadequate oil supply, perhaps we should look for higher long-term interest rates, instead.

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2025/01/05/an-energy-and-the-economy-forecast-for-2025/

We are about to start pushing on a string.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Peak oil does need more attention. Peak Oil only means decreasing “cheap oil”, not no oil, and you’re right.

robbyrob Im back!
robbyrob Im back!
1 year ago

Back to economics: Struggling Downtown Pittsburgh could face more financial issues if U.S. Steel moves headquartershttps://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2025/01/05/us-steel-downtown-pittsburgh-headquarters/stories/202501030079

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago

Doesn’t help that we’ve a 2nd “progressive” admin in power :/

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
1 year ago

“Safety Campus Magazine” reporting?

Of course, no parent wants their child taught by an illiterate teacher. But it took me all of two minutes to research this more. Only one NJ Assembly member – including Republicans – noted ‘no’ on this law because it is a stopgap measure to qualify more teachers due to the infrequent timing of the ‘literacy’ tests.

Every full-time NJ teacher still has to complete a Bachelor’s degree with specific classes for the grades they will teach, plus complete an educator preparation program.

There is no widespread plot to enlist any breathing soul to teach classes in NJ. You commenters have been had.

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
1 year ago

Actual legislative text can be found here: https://legiscan.com/NJ/text/A1669/id/2923619

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Why not just hold the tests more often?

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago

…so they seek a lifetime certification, but a standardized test in basic skills is some kind of roadblock?

This bill eliminates the requirement that a teacher candidate complete a basic skills test. Specifically, this bill eliminates the requirement that a candidate seeking a certificate of eligibility, a certificate of eligibility with advanced standing, a provisional certificate, or a standard instructional certificate complete a Commissioner of Education-approved test of basic reading, writing, and mathematics skills, including, but not limited to, the Praxis Core Academic Skills for Educators test, in order to obtain any of these certificates.

Read that again, and think this is a good idea. Just because they graduated with a BA doesn’t mean they are actually smart enough to teach.

Read this part again, in case you missed it

not limited to, the Praxis Core Academic Skills for Educators test

President Musk
President Musk
1 year ago

I paid good money for that media placement…. You owe me compensation!

Maya
Maya
1 year ago

No wonder these teachers are great at promoting socialism, LGBTQ+++, and DEI garbage to our kids

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Maya

Well, if you can’t demonstrate basic competency, all you have left is to speak “your truth”
…and you have a LOT of those people out there looking for jobs since it’s worthless anywhere else

KGB
KGB
1 year ago

Integrating schools works like this. Mix a bucket of cream with a bucket of mud and you get two buckets of mud.

President Musk
President Musk
1 year ago
Reply to  KGB

Take heart: Once I’ve established permanent control, I’ll bring Apartheid to the US. Of course, it will be the inexpensive brown people in the good jobs, and the white ones fighting over the scraps, but they will be kept apart.

KGB
KGB
1 year ago
Reply to  President Musk

Respect for merit is not apartheid. Before integration students were segregated by ability. After integration segregation by ability ended. You cannot mix a bucket of cream and a bucket of mud in the same classroom.

RandomMike
RandomMike
1 year ago

Well most of us have seen the best times of the USA.

“We’ll always have Paris.”

Last edited 1 year ago by RandomMike
peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  RandomMike

Except Paris is a bit bedraggled too. Both nations dragged down by laziness, in wanting too many servants.

VeldesX
VeldesX
1 year ago
Reply to  peelo

I was in Paris for three days. I saw a crime in front of my face every single day. I had to step over homeless guys sprawled in front of the hotel entrance each morning. That was 1999.

What’s it like today, after 100,000 centime-less migrants came to town & spread old rotting mattresses on the pavements for a night of shut-eye?

Call_Me_Al
Call_Me_Al
1 year ago

This takes the old line to an extreme-

Those who can, do; those who can’t do, teach.

(*Not a slight against the profession, just an observation)

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

I’ve been teaching college 40 years. In the last 20 years I have read 2000+ books, meaning one about every 3.6 days. Missed 5 work days total in that time: one day every 8 years. Also had a law practice overlapping half that time. And I’ll bet anything that these losers are paid far more teaching wages and benefits than I am. I am horrified to see this.

radar
radar
1 year ago

“We need more teachers (even if they can’t teach)” The irony.

Siliconguy
Siliconguy
1 year ago
Reply to  radar

They don’t need teachers as much as babysitters.

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago

Many private schools in NYC don’t require teaching certificates and these are expensive schools.

Midnight
Midnight
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

Our tax dollars don’t support private schools so what they do really doesn’t matter

Last edited 1 year ago by Midnight
KGB
KGB
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

Teaching certificates are are certifications of incompetence.

Tex 272
Tex 272
1 year ago

The Fate of Empires. Easy 26 pp. read. Skip to the Summary, if of little patience or reading challenged. (1976, Sir John Glubb, PDF) // The Ugly End of the US is nigh. Prepare as inclined. If an Elderly Senior, as I am, count your age as a blessing. ☮️✝️

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  Tex 272

Glubb Pasha, as he was called. A great one!

ajc1970
ajc1970
1 year ago

During the pandemic, Oregon removed the requirement for k-12 govt school teachers to have a high school and college degree. Not sure if they ever reinstated it

Midnight
Midnight
1 year ago

Liberal leadership in action. Lower standards to fix a problem. How can anyone support this?

President Musk
President Musk
1 year ago
Reply to  Midnight

Dumb people are easier to manipulate into supporting my interests over theres, my dear minion.

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago
Reply to  Midnight

When I was in engineering college, the students that couldn’t cut it dropped out and became business majors, where all the classes were on Tuesdays and Thursdays and they could party 5 nights a week and still make passing grades. If they couldn’t cut it as business majors, they became education majors.

I don’t think teachering degrees are required. But if you can’t demonstrate mastery of the material you intend to teach others, then maybe you are in the wrong line of work.

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Tenacious D

A students often end up working for C students.

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

You seem to believe in credentialism.

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Sentient

The opposite! I had some very good managers who went to mediocre schools but they knew how to manage people.

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

Very true. As an engineer I work for program managers. Most of them are dumbasses who could be replaced by a few lines of computer code. Of course I generally make more money than most program managers because my skill set is scarcer. But I still work for them.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Tenacious D

This is Ohio State to a “T”.
Not just that, but we Chemical Engineers had to take far more total credits to make sure we were “well rounded” with the liberal arts BS.
Not that the BA people had to know basic math.

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

In my day at Ohio State if we found a Michigander on campus after the Rose Bowl he would be lynched. Maybe you being from the UP saved you since its not really Michigan but something else. My best friend went to Michigan Tech in mining engineering and Visited several times in winter to go skiing there. Nice place but I wouldn’t go on Lake Superior just after a blizzard.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

lol, I’m from Pitt, but spent every full summer and a few winters since I was born up near Tech with family (my dad and mom went there back in the day in Houghton and Baraga). God’s country.
Michigan, spent a many games after graduating from OSU as I lived in Toledo, and agree with not liking MI fans. PSU are another group not well received even though I’m back in Pitt in enemy territory 🙂

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

Those multicultural electives are all bullshit and amount to attempts at propaganda and socializing the losses. Nobody can make money in the private sector with knowledge gained in those class, so the solution is to force all students to sit through the BS under the guise of “well-roundedness.” Get government out of education and out of accreditation and those worthless courses will shrivel up and die.

Top-GUN
Top-GUN
1 year ago
Reply to  Tenacious D

So True.. I graduated from VA Tech with engineering degree in 1975. Freshmen Calculus had a lot of students take their student files over to Business office. Sophmore year it was Statics and Dynamics, following year it was Fluid Mechanics and Thermodynamics… and Yes,, business majors were typically partying by Thursday evening,, also note,, it took more credit hours to get an engineering degree than a business degree and we had fewer electives.

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago
Reply to  Top-GUN

I did a minor in B.A. with my engineering degree. The courses were laughably easy and not hard to ace with the high credit hour load I had.

One professor took a practice exam another professor had on his University website page and used it for the final exam. I had happened to come across that practice exam and had printed it in size 6 font onto the single sheet of paper of notes I was allowed to use for the final exam (size 6 font, no margins…I had lots of notes).

It was the end of the quarter/semester, so I used up my print quota and made extras for classmates. Handed a few out. Then I get the final exam, saw that the professor took someone else’s practice exam for his final exam, and thought “you lazy son of a bitch!”. I started copying the answers from my notes, looking up from time to time to see if the other people who took my notes realized what they had. One by one, their body language confirmed. I completed the ~40 question exam and checked it over twice in the span of 9 minutes. When I got up to turn the exam in, everyone was looking up wondering how I got it done so fast.

It was then that I realized that degrees in business administration are by and large a JOKE.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tenacious D
Maximus Minimus
Maximus Minimus
1 year ago

Today’s uneducated students will become tomorrow’s uneducated teachers, and so another turn in the downwards spiral would have been reached.
Eventually, the US (and other Western countries) will separate into enclaves with different groups living together – mostly peacefully.
The Tower of Babel wasn’t a myth, but an collective intellectual work of some smart people.

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago

No. The dumber Have Nots will get jealous of the Haves and will then try to use government to ensure equality of outcome.

Phil
Phil
1 year ago

This is stuff from the Babylon Bee. I wish. It’s really pathetic.

robbyrob Im back!
robbyrob Im back!
1 year ago

“I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness…

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance” 

— The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, Random House, 1996

Laura
Laura
1 year ago

Parents need to start homeschooling their children at night and on weekends in order to get a proper education.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Laura

…and get them off social media

Midnight
Midnight
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

Totally agree

Tenacious D
Tenacious D
1 year ago
Reply to  Laura

Parents that homeschool their kids should get their property taxes back from the state instead of it going to the public school district.

notaname
notaname
1 year ago

K-5, 6-9, 9-12 teaching skills are all different.

K-5 needs many skills like patience, humor, planning, and consistency; not Shakespeare or trigonometry.

School choice would help but of course, it hurts the poor/disadvantaged …they just don’t have the time or knowledge to understand how to choose a school; best let the govt make the decisions. (/s)

Sample test:
https://www.mometrix.com/academy/praxis-core-practice-test/

If standardized testing (w/o cheat aids) took over, we’d be better and break the education monopoly.

MikeC711
MikeC711
1 year ago
Reply to  notaname

I think have a teacher who can read and add is crucial at all levels. As for school choice hurting the poor/disadvantaged, the studies show the exact opposite. They show that minoritiies and the poor have a bigger benefit from school choice than white students of average or above average wealth. Frankly, with the teacher’s unions and the lowering of teacher skill qualifications … alternative education should be encouraged. Problem is the unions purchase many politicians who will always do their bidding. If you stear clear of blue states … you should be able to have a choice in your child’s education and should be able to make sure your child’s teacher (if it isn’t you) is literate and can do basic math.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  notaname

Yes, people skills matter in a teacher, but too much of a policy focus of making kids dumb and socialized has been a disaster. The classic three R’s need to be drilled no matter what.

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago
Reply to  notaname

If we required 5th grade teachers to be minimally competent at 5th grad math, we’d lose half the teachers and most of the diversity.

Walt
Walt
1 year ago

The teacher’s unions are often a huge problem.

But the other problem is that nobody wants to be a teacher because it pays like crap, so lots of places are looking for anyone who can fog a mirror at this point – hence dropping test requirements.

Given the totally valid critiques from both sides of the political aisle, the smart thing to do would probably be to get rid of the unions somehow (or at least make it easy to fire incompetent teachers) and simultaneously dramatically raise pay for teachers.

And please, don’t get started about how it’s a cushy job. If it was a cushy job there wouldn’t be a shortage of teachers, right?

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

Paycheck, early on, sure, but look at the totality of benefits, guaranteed retirement returns, early retirement, summers off?
With family in the field, yes, over time they do quite well over the years.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

Paycheck, early on, sure, but look at the totality of benefits, guaranteed retirement returns, early retirement, summers off?
With family in the field, yes, over time they do quite well over the years.

Captain Crunch
Captain Crunch
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

The “summers off” thing is a complete red herring. Raise pay by 25% and have school year round. Teachers would love this. Parents would like this too. Most teachers work side hustles in the summer to pay the bills. Pay them for a full year and they’d work a full year.

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Crunch

Raise the standards (with skills tests) to get rid of the morons, then raise the pay to get enough teachers. No sense raising the pay of idiots.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Crunch

NEA says starting salary is $44,500, average is $69,500 – for 9 months of work. $59,300 equivalent starting and $92,600 for a “normal” job.
Average college grad at 24 for a full year of work? $40k At 34? $55k

They make plenty (plus very generous bennies)

Walt
Walt
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

I don’t know why I even bother because nobody actually wants to engage with this subject in general but in NM contract days run from late July/early August until mid June, roughly. So there’s a 6-7 week break for “summer”. There is a constant need to stay up to date on PD requirements and such, too, such that it’s pretty rare to spend that whole time just goofing off. Most people take second jobs.

Teachers are always at school well before and after the kids, and of course spend their time grading and preparing outside of school hours as well.

All in all, it’s probably a similar number of total work hours as compared to other white collar professions. I’d argue that it’s also well above average for stress/difficulty, but if you’ve never dealt with 25 3rd graders who had to stay inside from recess because of lightning, well, maybe you wouldn’t get it.

Again, if it was so cushy, people wouldn’t quit in droves after a year or two, and we’d have applicants out the door for any open position.

I don’t know how you can think that capitalism somehow doesn’t work in this particular case – somehow the general public hasn’t noticed that teachers have it so easy? Is there another profession where the money flows like wine and workers can laze about, yet nobody wants the jobs? It’s like magic that only education works that way!

This takes away nothing from the argument that teacher’s unions (like most public unions) often cause some terrible problems with rent-seeking behavior and can end up protecting incompetent or even criminal members. Left and right critiques both have merit here.

Woodsie Guy
Woodsie Guy
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

Walt, my wife is an elementary teacher with 20+ years in. Everything you have said is spot on. She works constantly at home lesson planning because the county doesn’t provide enough time to lesson plan during school hours. She also genuinely cares about her student’s academic success and wants them all to succeed. All of that extra time she works in the evenings and on weekends is made up during her 2 months off in the summer. We also spend a shit load of or own money on her classroom buying various supplies.

You’re wasting your breath making such comments here. Most here stupidly paint everything associated with the government with a broad negative brush. That’s not to say that government doesn’t have serious issues.

Lots of people want to simply burn it all down which is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water in my view. I’m quite certain if that were to happen the folks supporting such an event would be quickly changing thier tune once bands of marauders start lurking about. Everyone just likes to bitch and moan now. Far to many spend to much time online in echo chambers and watching propagandist pundits. It’s all negativity and dog whistles to rile the viewer up into an irrational frenzy.

Walt
Walt
1 year ago
Reply to  YP_Yooper

So why aren’t people lining up to teach?

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

grads are generally narcissistic through social media, want their payday now, and don’t have any concept of “long-term”

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

Second time you’ve asked this question, and I still haven’t seen a real reply yet. I agree with you (and in the power of markets). If teaching was so well paid and so ‘easy’, why wouldn’t everyone get their BA and sign up for ‘fluff work’, ‘generous bennies’, and summers off (since they supposedly don’t even have to be smart enough to pass some test)? If that’s true, it sounds like the rest of us are the dumb ones?

Webej
Webej
1 year ago

Shortages tend to be specific (depends on the neighborhood & school).
The classroom is often a terrible place to be nowadays, the children have not been socialized or brought up; they don’t see education as an opportunity but as an unfair useless chore; the curriculum and materials are handed down from on high and teachers have been turned into robots for the application of minutely outlined exercises and workbooks; individual attention to kids has been supplanted by a rodeo of meetings, assessments, quality control metrics administration, etc.

RandomMike
RandomMike
1 year ago
Reply to  Walt

Teaching can be dangerous too.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago
Reply to  RandomMike

Really? As opposed to what?
There are far more dangerous jobs paying less than teachers…

David Heartland
David Heartland
1 year ago

This would have never happened in 1950’s to 2010’s America!

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago

In the 1950s many teachers had only a two-year certificate from a teaching school.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

Yes, the Boomer surge did result in a lot of incompetents getting into the profession. I think that was the start of this downhill slide, in families as well as schools. The system had a very hard time scaling up to the surge in demand.

Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  peelo

Before the Boomers were in school even fewer teachers had certificates or degrees. You can look it up.

Last edited 1 year ago by Doug78
Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

I’d rather have someone who quit school after 8th grade but can pass a basic skills test than someone with a PhD who can’t pass the test.

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
1 year ago
Reply to  Sentient

Maybe all our kids should attend welding school then. This sounds like my dad’s instructor.

Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

Education departments only got geared up in the late fifties/sixties.
It ironically marks the end of even the pretense of excellence in education (there have always been terrible teachers, but it depended on the individual, not the system).

President Musk
President Musk
1 year ago

Uneducated people are easy to control with dumb propaganda. This is by design. My First Lady LOVES the uneducated.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  President Musk

Or she could just be a “super model” and meet a rich guy, right?

President Musk
President Musk
1 year ago
Reply to  peelo

Well, she’s a bit saggy these days, and nobody likes orange rubbing off on their peculiars, so I don’t think that’s an option anymore.

YP_Yooper
YP_Yooper
1 year ago

There does need to be more balance. I’ve quite a few friends and family who are teachers in K-12 and district admins.
Requiring continuing education and Masters degrees are BS in a vast majority of cases and are very expensive.
Can’t pass a basic proficiency test? Also BS to the other extreme.

robbyrob Im back!
robbyrob Im back!
1 year ago

ya and?
They just want warm bodies in the classroom
But maybe not: Arizona School’s Curriculum Will Be Taught by AI, No Teachershttps://gizmodo.com/arizona-schools-curriculum-will-be-taught-by-ai-no-teachers-2000540905

notaname
notaname
1 year ago

clickable link below.

Note this is a single charter school not all of Az. Good for them and choice

https://gizmodo.com/arizona-schools-curriculum-will-be-taught-by-ai-no-teachers-2000540905

Decorate Your Walls with Mish Fine Art Images

Click each image to view details or purchase in the store.

Stay Informed

Subscribe to MishTalk

You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.