Let’s discuss viral nonsense on alleged Social Security fraud and a simple explanation. 
86 million people views Musk’s idiotic rant. 94,000 people retweeted nonsense.
It would behoove DOGE to ask a few questions regarding something that looks ridiculously wrong before Tweeting it.
No, 150-Year-Olds Aren’t Collecting Social Security Benefits
Wired reports No, 150-Year-Olds Aren’t Collecting Social Security Benefits
Elon Musk has repeatedly claimed that his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) project had uncovered massive government fraud when it alleged that 150-year-olds were claiming Social Security benefits.
But Musk has provided no evidence to back up his claims, and experts quickly pointed out that this is very likely just a quirk of the decades-old coding language that underpins the government payment systems.
Musk first made the claims during his Oval Office press conference last week, when he claimed that a “cursory examination of Social Security, and we got people in there that are 150 years old. Now, do you know anyone that’s 150? I don’t know. They should be in the Guinness Book of World Records … So that’s a case where I think they’re probably dead.”
While no evidence was produced to back up this claim, it was picked up by right-wing commentators online, primarily on Musk’s own X platform, as well as being reported credibly by pro-Trump media outlets.
Computer programmers quickly claimed that the 150 figure was not evidence of fraud but rather the result of a weird quirk of the Social Security Administration’s benefits system, which was largely written in COBOL, a 60-year-old programming language that undergirds SSA’s databases as well as systems from many other US government agencies.
Because COBOL does not have a date type, some implementations rely instead on a system whereby all dates are coded to a reference point. The most commonly used is May 20, 1875, as this was the date of an international standards-setting conference held in Paris, known as the Convention du Mètre.
These systems default to the reference point when a birth date is missing or incomplete, meaning all of those entries in 2025 would show an age of 150.
That’s just one possible explanation for what DOGE allegedly found. Musk could also have simply looked up the SSA’s own website, which explains that since September 2015 the agency has automatically stopped benefit payments when anyone reaches the age of 115.
However, on Monday morning Musk doubled down, posting a screenshot of what he claims were figures from “the Social Security database” to X, writing that “the numbers of people in each age bucket with the death field set to FALSE!”
The figures suggested that over 10 millions people aged over 120 were collecting benefits.
“Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security,” Musk wrote.
The fact that the Social Security system contains millions of entries from people who are dead is likely distinct from a potential COBOL-caused error, and also not news. A report written by the SSA’s inspector general in 2023 found that 98 percent of those aged 100 or older in the Social Security databases are not in receipt of any benefits. The report added that the database would not be updated because it would cost too much money to do so.
“DOGE going into all these agencies with largely unfettered access with a wrecking ball and no understanding of the business logic and structure behind the code, database, and configured business logic, related payment systems, and integrated decision trees, poses real risks to the privacy and persona-level data of millions of people across all of those records,” Thomas Drake, a former National Security Agency executive-turned-whistleblower, tells WIRED.
Musk, during the Oval Office press conference which was attended by his son, claimed the payments to 150-year-olds was part of the billions, maybe even tens of billions, in corruption and waste that his DOGE effort had already uncovered.
But just like condom shipments to Gaza or payments to Politico, Musk’s claims of Social Security fraud seems to be a gross misrepresentation of what’s actually happening and why.
In the same press conference where he made the remarks about 150-year-olds collecting Social Security benefits, Musk said his DOGE project would be “maximally transparent” with all savings being made posted to its website.
But when the site came online last week, not only was it just a repurposed Twitter feed with terrible security, it also lacked any details in a section dedicated to savings.
Musk’s posts on X are still out there gathering suckers to retweet.
Rep Mike Collins was in on the act. So was Rapid Response, 4 hours ago with 697,000 followers and 208,000 views.
Donald Trump Jr. was in on the act with 4.3 million views.
“OMG!!! It’s so bad what’s been happening to our country and your money! Breaking: Musk says there’s people over 150-years-old collecting Social Security“
Breaking911 got 487,000 views.
“THIS. IS. INSANE. @DOGE uncovers 395 million active Social Security numbers, exceeding the U.S. population by approximately 60 million. Shockingly, over 20 million of these are for individuals over 100, and more than 15 million are for those over 110.”
And “Trump tells the media all the deceased recipients of Social Security that DOGE has uncovered including a 360 year old man!”
Click on the above link for a video of Trump.
Benny Johnson got 1.8 million views for his shocking report “Karoline Leavitt says Elon Musk and DOGE have been sent to investigate DEAD PEOPLE receiving Social Security payments”
Too, Stupid to Believe
If it looks too stupid top believe, then perhaps it is.
All Musk had to do was ask the head of Social Security if there was a simple explanation.
Instead Musk suckered in millions of views for nonsense.
Contrary to Viral Nonsense, the Court Did Not Threaten Trump with Arrest
On February 12, I noted Contrary to Viral Nonsense, the Court Did Not Threaten Trump with Arrest
A post by @DesireeAmerica4 was viewed 10.8 million times. And the post by @amuse was viewed 18.3 million times.
People are shocked by something that never happened.
And now they are shocked again by something that never happened.
USAID Fiasco
On February 6, I noted USAID Cancellation by Trump, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly Details
I am in favor of Musk digging.
But the results have been haphazard at best and the firing of nuclear workers was reckless.
And had DOGE gone about USAID properly, a judge would not have demanded the agency be put back online.
DOGE Makes Huge Mistake Firing Nuclear Workers, Now Seeks to Rehire Them
DOGE fired 350 people and now wants to hire back all but 35-50 of them after figuring out they accidentally fired people reassembling warheads, one of the most sensitive jobs across the nuclear weapons enterprise, with the highest levels of clearance.
Yesterday, I noted DOGE Makes Huge Mistake Firing Nuclear Workers, Now Seeks to Rehire Them
When you fire people without understanding what they even do, you make big mistakes.
What a clown show.
The most constructive use of DOGE is to expose the mechanisms by which politicians and bureaucrats abuse power to promote their destructive world view. That clarity and insight should be used, politically, to unwaveringly push anti-human ideas like Collectivism/Globalism/Marxism completely out of the Overton Window once and forever.
Perhaps that would be because the Democrat Party was so “Careless & Reckless” with Policies? They are trying to fix something so massively broken, and done underhandedly, that it gets difficult to catch everything. As things get uncovered more, we find more to get fixed. They often overlap and feed of one another. The job of deceit was done very well, and much is buried very deep.
Mike, you were a programmer during hey days. Do you buy the cobol BS? COBOL programmers are more disciplined than the current breed of AI copy pasters.
Agreed!
meta programmers
The Trump administration has probably done more to spotlight on the seriousness of government corruption than any administration in the last 30 years. I can forgive any missteps along the way especially if they immediately correct any that are considered ‘serious’
I’m not sure a woke rag like Wired is a sufficiently objective source of info and analysis…but I didn’t read the piece so I can’t say one way or another
Both the arguments made by Wired were specifically limited by the word, “likely.” That having been said, the amounts described in the initial headlines would have “likely” been noticed by those doing periodic analyses to forecast how long before Social Security runs into trouble. Social Security is notorious for issues with payments, but this has included payments due and not made as well as payments that should not have been made. Musk is “likely” to have exaggerated and Wired is “likely” to have launched an inadequately researched and baseless counter and smear, as both have as much history in so doing as Social Security has in fouling up payments.
How do you know what WIRED claimed is true? When anyone says “Democracy is in real danger” from investigating waste, fraud & abuse, one must be skeptical. When we know WF&A is rampant, the only question is how bad is it? Musk gets the benefit of the doubt until Dems acknowledge the problem and offer to help root it out.
How do you know what Musk claims is true? How do you know what Trump claims is true? You believe Musk/Trump because you identify with them. Your ego is invested in them being correct so any evidence to the contrary of them being right is ignored or explained away.
These are your typical low information voters, they will believe anything spouted by their “gods”.
“just a quirk of the decades-old coding language that underpins the government payment systems”
Fixing “quirks” like this is justification enough for DOGE.
Does it scare anyone else that quirky coding language underpins the government payment system?
It does not underpin the government “payment” system. This was a listing of SSNs known to the US at some time; most of those people over 100 are dead, but their SS number (NOT an actual SS payment) is still in this supposedly ‘corrupt’ file
If Musk and DOGE are so brilliant, why didn’t they simply count the number of people in each age range actually being sent a SS check or electronic debit? The SSA gives monthly or quarterly reports of check totals being sent out. Why not ferret out how many checks are being written each month? And report on that?
Unless it’s not sensational enough for Musk and Trump?
So Wired is not a reliable source of news. Noted.
“unfettered access” OMG! not in the holy of holies Washington DC. It’s time all federal agencies are subject to external audit.
Stop shooting the messengers and help improve our society and economy.
Ummm….they are audited. Each federal agency is required by law (CFO Act of 1990) to have a yearly independent financial audit. These audits are generally performed by a private sector accounting firms such as….KPMG, Delloite, Ernst and Young, etc.
Didn’t you ever wonder why you see headlines for the DoD not passing its audit every year?
They were audited, until just recently, when Trump fired most of the Inspectors General.
If the COBOL explanation was legitimate, there would be a huge number of people with the exact same age (148) as of today. However, the number in the 140-150 range is in line with the others. There has to be a better explanation. The COBOL default is absolutely insufficient.
That was exactly my point… until my comment got deleted, that is.
hiding behind cobol is so Y2K ish. All the bunker hiding then was deemed bupkis because mainframe programming was found to be more disciplined. If it was such a poor solution why did they not replace it with hot shot AI programming whatever all these years.
I think the reason was that it worked. It couldn’t call out the bullshit or theft in the process but made it easy for doge to understand.
Remember when Obama & Clinton Were DOGE Before Elon Musk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZBie6yzEY
Great video of politicians promising cuts and more efficient gov for 30+ years and government has done nothing but get bigger and bigger.
I’m ok with dumb mistakes being fixed. I’m not ok with unaccountable taxpayer funded government agencies wasting our money and being perennially incompetent.
Another article with unnamed experts and sources saying what, in their opinion, is going on. “very likely”, ” quickly claimed”, “one possible explanation”. People in charge resigning rather than trying to help.
Elon Musk’s claims and explanations make just as much sense.
Chesterton’s fence comes to mind
I always preferred Winston’s gate.
Utterly unserious! It is mostly the performance art of a populist President, just like the Gulf of America, Governor Trudeau, and buying Greenland. The problem is it is utterly unserious propaganda, except when people’s lives and national security become collateral damage.
The problem is that it’s just as “unserious” as the pee-tape, Russian Collusion, the Wuhan wet-market, 57 genders, $82 million of government subscriptions to Politico, and a number of other messes. People are looking for answers, and while I don’t think they’ll get them from Trump, they haven’t gotten them from the people who’ve been in power. Without recognizing that, the same sifting of leadership and answers will come from the people. The crisis is in the system.
Really! There is no comment on the “pee tape.” However, given the number of people that the first Trump campaign hired with ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine (Manafort), pro-Russian activities (Flynn), or Russian business interests (Tillerson, Wilbur Ross, Gates, etc.), it was not irresponsible for our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to suspect something might have been going on with us without Trump’s knowledge. Trump did not help allay any concerns when he publically asked Putin for Hillary’s emails, and he never was able to say anything critical of Putin or Russia. Still, he had plenty of criticism from the UK, France, and German leaders. Nothing appears to have changed in that regard since his first term. Since holding office this time, Trump has not once criticized Russia or Putin but called the Canadian Prime Minister, Governor Trudeau, call Zelensky a dictator and blames him for Putin’s invasion. He sent his VP to Europe to assail European leadership. The beginning of his ideas for a peace plan regarding Ukraine has already ceded most of the priorities desired by Putin while attempting to blackmail Ukraine into giving the United States half of its rare earth mineral rights to pay us back for our military equipment support. Collusion or not, Trump certainly is a true gift for Putin.
Oh, he is! You could tell by the relaxed postures of those two old Russian pros, at the Saudi “summit”.
If that garbage line about people with “null” birthdates showing as 150 years old were the least bit probable there would be a large number of exactly 150 year old people. There isn’t a massive bump there in the chart, now is there? Do people think for two seconds before parroting garbage?
You are correct.
Government’s organizational charts look nice and clean but when you look under the hood you see its held together by zip ties and Duck tape.
The SS commissioner should have stuck around to clear up matters if it was truly an error on DOGE. She quit immediately. When people resign like this it’s usually not because of exceptional performance.
The Secret Service head tried to stick around until the truth was finally revealed. There was no sloped roof. Agents should have been on it. She lied then quit. Maybe the SS lady didn’t want to deal with that scenario. Right now we will not know until the ‘roof is checked out’ meaning a full audit of SS.
You got it completely backwards. Our government is careless in operation and reckless in reporting. DOGE would no exist if the bureaucrats were competent.
Stop dehumanizing American citizens who have chosen a public service job, which in most cases at the manager and director level offers compensation well below what the private sector could provide. These are well-meaning people who, behind the scenes, serve the needs of the same American citizens who call them “the Deep State,” corrupt or incompetent bureaucrats. This is all quite disgusting and shameless behavior.
The only thing stupid are posts like yours and those of the bribed “news” organizations trying to explain away government fraud without any proof. Let me explain something to you. When it comes to our government, it’s guilty until proven innocent. Not the other way around.
If the data that SS database for who is alive and who is dead is not accurate, how then can anyone project the future solvency of the system? Don’t you have to know the ages of people receiving money so you can use the death tables to calculate the future outlays? Don’t you also need the ages of the population that will be receiving benefits in the future? If this list is incorrect , where is the correct list to use for these forecasts? Seems age and alive or dead is pretty important along with the amounts coming in and out of the system.
blah blah blah – and the Biden administration was keeping good records when it was sending billions to Ukraine?
Apparently no records were kept of ANY transactions during the past four years. We don’t even know who got paid to install new curtains in the Albuquerque federal court house.
Have you ever heard of an odd thing called a topic?
taxpayer dollar waste is always on topic. Try to focus.
Mish,
I agree with you that the numbers are certainly not 100% accurate. However, I don’t think for a second that no fraud exists within the SSA or other government programs for that matter.
With that said, I’d like to know your thoughts on a couple things related to this list.
Both of my questions have nothing to do with anyone on that list 120 years and older.
According to most recent estimates, there are roughly 100,000 Americans living who are at least 100 years old and the oldest living American is 114.
I looked a couple different estimates that dated from the 2020 census (80,139) to a Pew Research estimate from 2024 that put the figure at 101,000.
For the sake of simplicity, let’s settle on 100,000 living Americans at least 100 years old and no older than 114.
Now, if you add up the number of people on the list aged 100-119, you get 8,361,414 million social security numbers.
Since the oldest living American is 114, let’s cut the 110-119 age bracket in half.
We still end up at 6,547,911 people from 100-114 years old.
That’s substantially more than the 100,000 Americans estimated to be living in that age range.
How do you explain that?
Now, if you eliminate everyone on that list that is 100 years and older, you come up with 377,626,689 people in America with social security numbers.
If we were to add the 6,547,911 for people 100-115 years old above, you’re looking at 384,174,600 people.
Based on the most recent U.S. Census Bureau population estimate dated July 1, 2024, the U.S. population is 340,110,988.
That means, according to the list Musk shared, there are still 44,063,612 more social security numbers for people 0-114 years old than the population of our country.
Not a single one of those 384 million social security numbers can be explained by the coding example you used in your post.
Heck, the number of people on that list that is 0-99 years old still exceed our estimated population by more than 37.5 million.
How do you explain those to discrepancies?
My father is 102 and my mother is 101. What is crazy is that until a year and a half ago they lived in their own place and my father still drove around in his car.
His whole premise is dripping with TDS. To suggest that DOGE not reveal what it finds without first clearing it with the government is beyond idiotic.
You nailed it! My thoughts exactly…let’s see what will be the final table will be when Musk finishes to uncover all little rocks…I bet a lot of gov. officials shenanigans will not be happy at all…Maybe Trump need to fire all those elephants employees from Social Security as he just did with all judges appointed by Obama…
Gotta love it, a mathematical analysis of a file you have never actually seen – which in your POV therefore ‘proves’ fraud exists.
This is good stuff
you have to break some omelettes to make an egg as Ben Franklin used to say.
Change is always difficult and painful, thats why everybody hates change, but without change we’d all be crusted in mud, living in huts and eating fried rats on our best days.
The point of having an executive in charge, like Trump, is when shit goes sideways, he will help get it on track again.
That is essentially the difference between Biden and Trump. One man sleeps while the other man drives.
our government is far past the use by date, its time to get the rot out before it eats up that which is still good and necessary.
I have no confidence that when all is said and done, Trump will have put in place a system that stays efficient and is an overall benefit to the US population. Trump has only displayed pettiness and vindictiveness and that is all I expect from him at this point.
you may be suffering from confirmation bias.
Sounds like DOGE is doing a piss poor job, per several of Mish Talks articles. What’s the endgame here? We can’t keep the spending pace going as is… at least I hope not. At some point (might as well be now) somebody is going to have to be the grinch, it might as well be Trump and Elon.
Are you suggesting Government should be audited as in giving an accounting of itself to the People?
That’s just a notion that the people are somehow supposed to have their monies held in Trust by Government and it does not belong to those in power to do whatever they want with.. Oh my God that’s just so revolutionary.
The endgame is incompetence, and we have attained it.
Then let’s find and publish some real fraud and real future savings. I think we all agree, that’s good. But that has not happened yet and people are being told and retweeting falsehoods; that does not help anyone
Agreed, I would like to see more of (as small of savings as this might be) things such as saving money by not minting the penny.
But, bigger cuts are going to have to be made and people are not going to like it. Pulling finances forward like we have done (w/this heavy debt load) is robbing our kids and grandkids.
Mish says everything is just fine in Government. It is all a misunderstanding and clickbait.
Must be so after all who could question how a country with a positive balance sheet turns into worlds largest debtor because, well you know everything is running smoothly. Just another conspiracy theory after all trust us, we is the government and we know best.
Sure no problemo. Gold still is back at 35 bucks an ounce isn’t it. What’s that you say its not.
But we is so trustful, how could that be?
“Mish says everything is just fine in Government.”
Obviously, that is not what Mish is saying. Mish left Illinois because it’s government.
Well when he says something like why did DOGE just not ask those in charge for an explanation, kinda not the way to do an Audit.
” All Musk had to do was ask the head of Social Security”
Musk put his DOGE numbers out there. The question that should be asked is how did Musk find this sort of results?
If it is all hyperbole then there are multitude of Politicos who will take no prisoners. So what is going on?
Sorry my friend but after listening to the wicked witch of the west Pelosi saying you have to pass it to find out what is in it, my confidence level in Government Budgets and Truth telling is a Big time minus.
Yeah, like a alot/most of your comments, you interject a lot of hyperbole or outright lies.
Where/when did Mish say “everything is just fine”. He pointed out that Musk (and SO many people like you) get fired up about an inaccurate list of people ‘on’ Social Security that aren’t actually getting paid? And then Musk hasn’t published any actual savings found yet.
You’re lucky you still get to post here with all your self-righteous BS and lies
I feel sorry for you.
That is not Hyperbole.
I wrote Mish said everything is fine while referencing and quote his statement about head of Social Security being asked in my followup post.
There were no quotation marks in my post everything is fine. The quote marks were his statement about head of Social Security, which is in his article.
It must be difficult breathing with your head stuck so far up your butt.
“The report added that the database would not be updated because it would cost too much money to do so.”
Suddenly, there is a sense that spending matters with this statement.
Usually the truth lies somewhere in between the extremes. Likely our biggest fraud will be in the Medicaid and Medicare numbers where atrocious over-spending is PAR.
on the civilian side, you are right, I’m sure DOD has many hidden sins, very very costly sins, some certainly down at the behest or with the cooperation of the CIA.
The national defense act of 1947 needs a revisit, and classification needs to be trimmed down to the minimum, it hides too many crimes financial and otherwise.
The Federal Governmentn is going broke.
We the people had a good run, but now it is over.
No way out.
The Social Security administration has traditionally been singled out as one of the most effective and efficient US government agencies (if you are keen to know why, read James Q. Wilson’s Bureaucracy book). No matter. Musk and his vandal army are trying to destroy anything that looks competent or effective at the federal level. These vandals will set us up well for the next pandemic, airplane collision, or terrorist attack (or whatever bad thing is almost certainly going to happen with these incompetents in charge now).
All they do is hand out money. How fricking hard is that? They have been effective at giving out money to the people they’re supposed to. They may also have been effective at giving out money to the wrong people. So we don’t know whether they’ve been efficient. That’s what we’re trying to find out.
Published in 1989. Not quite the same country.
People citing either the 2015 or 2023 audits as “gotchas” are proving they didn’t actually read the report. The SSA did not incorporate the OIG’s recommendations lol. Yes, the right wing got it wrong, but neither did the left wing. (I know I know, this site doesn’t serve a specific ‘wing’ per se)
For the few that actually read the 19 page PDF, SSA’s conclusions is ‘trust us bro’ when it comes to actually addressing the noted deficiencies. Supposedly Dec 2023 and forward, reporting was supposed to get better.
But we won’t know until the next audit – which is what, another 8-10 years in the future?
I read the report, and the findings don’t support Musk’s implied claim. Yes, a bunch of people (roughly 19 million) over 100 are still the SSI database without death information. Ok what are the implications of that? The IG found that 98% of those people over 100 in the database were not receiving payments. That means that roughly 380,000 were receiving payments.
For those that were it could mean a relative of there’s is receiving survivor’s benefits, they are still alive, or it could mean there’s fraud. Idk and neither do you.
Bottom line, Musk is playing click bait with his tweets. It clearly worked on you.
bottom line is wrong. once you have a data abberation you don’t ignore it or hope for the best. you investigate it.
sure 4/10ths of a million people could be receiving survivor benefits, but just audit and find out – it could also be fraud.
you don’t ignore a tumour, even when its benign. the surgeons scalpel must be brought to bear despite the pain.
I never implied that it shouldn’t be further investigated. My point is that Musk is sensationalizing a possible issue. He’s provided zero proof anything is amiss. Only conjecture.
It’s click bait…..
Cart before the horse:
when you investigate properly…
you have facts for Show & Tell.
Lacking any facts…you are just talking shit.
In war there is no substitute for victory.
General Douglas MacArthur
The sheer number of people who blindly accepted as fact that they are shelling out money to people born before 1900 is proof of just how dumb Americans have allowed themselves to become, thanks to their phones and ever-present alt-media nonsense narratives.
Most people are pretty level headed, moderate, and sensible, but the immoral big money interests constantly seek to create this division of right and left through the media, putting these polarizing political actors in charge and broacasting their provocative nonsense, as well as attempting to appeal to people’s base desires by sexually objectifying women.
Of course it’s too stupid….but considering the blow back on looking at ANY books, they are going for the headlines to make defenders look dumb. Sounds good to me.
There are 23.5 million eligible people over 90 years old on the list. Instead of blaming bureaucrats the dems blame Ilan for exposing their stupidity. The gold mine, the most potential fraud’s recoveries, can be found between the 40 and 69 list, but targeting corrupt firemen, police detective and FBI is toxic. They are above the law. They do what they want for decades !!
COBOL? Engineers wouldn’t be caught dead using that language in the 1970s. Who around now can even understand how to do the programming?
“DOGE Makes Huge Mistake Firing Nuclear Workers…” – sure, headline written by Karine Jean Pierre. And she didn’t even get the spelling correct – it’s spelled “Yu-u-u-ge”. Yeah, no one cares about the $billions wasted by not following up on obvious discrepancies in SS over the last 40 years. Let’s commiserate with the fired (or soon-to-be-fired) folks who now will be forced to compete with the rest of us. Welcome to the real world.
teach the fired/laid off government workers to learn to code COBOL. 2 problems solved with one generic social policy.
as long as the dems get to run the COBOL university and make sure its DEI safe, there should be no opposition.
Yes COBOL. It wouldn’t have been used by engineers because it is a business language and has limited math capabilities. It was in heavy use by businesses and government in the ’70s. There are not many who understand it now. However, it remains in heavy use around the planet because nobody wanted to spend to replace it believing there was nothing to be gained by doing so, now shown to be a false belief. The lack of people who understand it creates a problem in trying to fix it. What was done was new applications are developed in more modern languages and then patches were used to the old legacy systems. This can prove to be a very costly approach too.
It all creates a lot of situations like the one described here. If the Musk team was really doing the job it should be the state of the federal government’s information systems would be a prime focus. Updating these would solve issues like this and the Pennsylvania mine situation that’s been described. That is where some real efficiencies could be gained as well as service delivery to taxpayers. Instead it appears they would rather create news bits in social media that play on and fuel the false beliefs the public has. This strategy gets a lot of yay! Go get them results but very little real efficiency savings. Note that most of the savings they’re claiming are coming from firings and cutbacks or withholdings, not from fixing and improving.
Fixing and improving requires understanding what needs to be done then reviewing the processes that do it, first determining if they are needed and then, if yes, determining if they can be done better. If they can be done better then you have to redesign them and develop new systems to support them. This is actually a very long and hard process but delivers real and sustainable results.
My background BTW includes running an information systems development group for an international bank and teaching information systems at the college level.
And MISH is on the right path here. Thanks MISH.
even you must understand in any IT program the first effort before a single line of code is written, is to get buyin from all the stakeholders.
that is what Musk is doing, he is showing the problems to generate indigination, anger, and frustration to get people to support things like you outlined.
This is a multi year process, but first you must get mad. please see the movie Network.. You have to shake the complacent masses out of their internet/tv/phone addicted lives to notice something is wrong and needs fixed. Guess what is blowing up with the deeds of Mr Musk & President Trump? Internet, TV, Phones..
Welcome to the government databases! I’m personally aware of a system that also uses COBOL for federal grant tracking and administration. The users all hate it because it is clunky and access can be unreliable. Government agencies need to justify asking Congress for the millions of dollars it takes to modernize these systems. If it is functional but not optimal, it is more difficult to justify. Also, the justification process involves forming a steering committee and developing a technical report about why the current system is bad, the benefits of a new system, and many other things. These reports usually take over a year, then multiple years to get funding authorized, then more years to get a new system built and work out the bugs and train the users. Your first question is spot on – COBOL programmers are retiring and if they are not retiring they can command a premium because government agencies are dependent upon these old systems. So they are expensive to maintain and people don’t like using these old systems, but they need to become so expensive and awful to use to get funding authorized for an overhaul.
Wouldn’t it be great if Musk and Trump were as smart as Mish? 🙄
“All Musk had to do was ask the head of Social Security if there was a simple explanation. Instead Musk suckered in millions of views for nonsense.”
But that is NOT what one would do if his only goal is to demonize Social Security, and to gut it and end it.
Ah yes I forgot, that’s how they MAGA, by cutting benefits to people who worked years if not decades to earn their rights.
“…Instead Musk suckered in millions of views for nonsense…”
Mish, this is the whole point. Musk knows his sycophant followers are salivating for his next confirmation bias tweet. He also knows that most people don’t have the time to validate all of his stupid tweets. Same with Trump. This is propaganda 101. Facts and truth don’t matter. It’s about controlling a narrative and manufacturing consent. The SOBs on the left do the exact same thing.
Alt. media will turn into the giant bloated centrally controlled propaganda spewing machine that caused its creation. It’s already started.
Here’s a link to a July 2023 report from the SSA OIG. What Musk is claiming has already been investigated. Don’t expect many of these investigations to continue with Trump firing IGs across the government.
https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf
Clown show indeed.
I’m living the stupidity now. The American people are so caught up in their hatred for everything gov’t, wait until they realize how badly they need it. There are people on “Paid Leave” right now that actually run these programs Congress emplemented. Nobody watching the chicken coop.
Yes, gov’t is extremely inefficient and many agencies could use massive updates, but to think the average gov’t worker knows whats going on is preposterous.
Americans will suffer. And before you chastize me, I do not work for the gov’t and am not a fan of gov’t. Mark my word, Americans havent seen the damage from this yet. Feel free to bookmark this and trash me after summer.
Yes, gov’t is extremely inefficient and many agencies could use massive updates, but to think the average gov’t worker knows whats going on is preposterous.
PREPOSTEROUS! Clown show! Reckless. Oh those silly taxpayers, wanting some accountability now & then! To have a professional civil service that knows its job & responsibilities! Tsk! Be reasonable, you dumb peasants!
and don’t forget to keep those tax payments coming. we need those dollars, that D.C. McMansion isn’t going to build itself…
Well said!
36+ trillion in debt. A trillion in interest a year. That is tax money which buys nothing to benefit the needy. We have been in the midst of damage. People can’t afford to buy a house, a spurt of inflation to 9%. The damage from Covid lockdowns around the world. That was due to governments, not a virus. Yes, there will be further damage going forward, as the long term debt cycle has not completed itself, yet.
Trump wants $4T/$5T. He will not get it. If Hakeem the regime change shut DC: more gov cuts, including social security workers. The frozen tax refunds, along with income taxes and tariffs will fill the gov coffer. If the QQQ decline add realized gains, Fed rates cuts and a smaller gov that will stay small. Trump will transfer power to the states.
I agree it is not in the best interest to hyperbole stuff that doesn’t matter . On the other hand the government refuses audits has 4.7 trillion they can’t trace, fails audits and it looks like the USPS is needing another tax payer bailout .The US government is bloated and needs serious modernization , reduction in headcount and cuts to many agencies including the military. We have the highest cost for midical care and education per pupil and the results are the worst in the world .
All true. But according to Mish, that’s irrelevant. It’s how the situation looks & feels that is the important thing that we stupid folks (i.e. taxpayers) don’t realize.
If I wear my Social Security fraudster hat, I would hide my fraud where the most receipts are paid out, that is the 65 to 73 age group. No reason why you can’t talk about the over 130 year old group while checking out where the bulk of the fraud is hidden.
You can see that what Musk is doing is keeping the momentum and news flow high. It keeps both the internal and external resistance continuously off balance. It is very satisfying to see the mice scurry around when you turn on the lights.
yes! Let the bullshit flow through you!
And into you, figurately speaking of course.
Your kinks have no place here.
I said figurately but you saw it literally. You are the kink.
Nuh uh… YOUUUU are!
I thought it was interesting:
Acting commissioner of the Social Security Administration, Michelle King, resigned on Sunday after a standoff with Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) over access to sensitive government records.
Decap Ilan. Degrade DOGE engineers who can make a million dollar a year.
Posting to laud you on that SLUR.
THAT SHOULD BE A BIGLY, BIGLY, BIGLY CONGRATULATIONS. “click bait”
Create the BAIT!
Bait WAITING TO BE CREATED!!!
Or fail that’s what diversion donny told me.
Doug 69 chastised me for bringing levity to the comments and they, uh 69, no, 78, yeah, dug 78, scolded me for levity. They’re right, uh, they being dug 69, no 78, whatever, we’re all here to solve the insolvency of usg.
I’m rambling, forgive me dug 69, I did enjoy your satirical post a few post back, laughing all night!
Dug 69!
No it’s dug 78, he’s, no, um, They’re not a he, he’s a they?
omg, economics is as hard as that palm reading class I went to!
The instructor was called mishy’ missh- mishkinnery , they, or her or them or HIMMY. was the best!
Thanks for reading the TEA LEAVES so us mouth breathing knuckle draggers can just read and enjoy the fantasy you created!!!!
PAPADAVE IS PRESIDENT MUSK!
OR….
Now I can chastise you for drinking before posting comments as well.
Smoke and mirrors. Apparently it’s not so easy to find massive fraud. If they feel the need to make a lot of noise without substance, then it’s likely that there may be not nearly as much substance (fraud) as was loudly claimed.
What we don’t find can be manufactured. This isn’t an audit… it’s a loyalty purge.
They should take the time to make sure they’re right. There’s plenty of waste to find.
Can save at least $10 billion a year in Social Security fraud just based on this Inspector General finding (scroll down to read more). This is “low hanging fruit” as far as easy way to cut spending due to gross waste or fraud.
That $10 billion per year in savings can fund at least 2 Virginia Class submarines that can deploy not only cruise missiles but nuclear armed hypersonic missiles, if Trump wants to increase America’s strategic forces.
Send out notices (multiple mailings, etc) to those who may be suspected of fraudulently receiving Social Security.
Give them at least 6 months warning to contact their local Congressman office or to go to a lawyers office (family law, disability law, etc) with the proper credentials to ensure they can continue to receive Social Security.
The lawyers or Congressman office can then send this info to the ombudsman for the nearest Social Security office.
…………………………………………………………..
“From FYs 2015 through 2022, SSA estimates it made nearly $72 billion in improper payments, most of which were overpayments.”
https://oig.ssa.gov/news-releases/2024-08-19-ig-reports-nearly-72-billion-improperly-paid-recommended-improvements-go-unimplemented/
Having been a COBOL programmer from the 1980’s through early 2000’s, I know sometimes a hard date is used in coding and agree that an interpretation along with the raw data being found would be helpful in understanding the full extent of the incompetence, negligence and fraud being uncovered by DOGE. That doesn’t mean the raw date being found is not accurate. There could possibly be an explanation for it.
However, even if the hard date was once used, why was it never updated? That is incompetence. The SSA was created in 1935 and if the 1875 date was used at that time (if COBOL existed) because that would be 60 years that sort of makes sense but COBOL was not created until 1959 and you can define any type of date, numeric or alphanumeric field you need in COBOL, so that explanation doesn’t make sense to me, based on what I know about COBOL. I am not sure when the SSA started using COBOL but the 1875 date explanation doesn’t make sense to me.
More importantly, isn’t a birth date required for the SSA to determine when someone has reached the age of eligibility for SS Benefits and used in the calculation of how much they are paid? Why is anyone without a valid and verified birth date in the system receiving any benefits? That could be negligence or fraud or some of both.
Defenders of the bureaucracy – if you’re explaining, you’re losing.