Hegseth openly condones war crimes. The Senate is investigating.
Shooting the Wounded
The Wall Street Journal comments Shooting the Wounded on Drug Boats?
Congress is mostly a media circus these days, so credit the members who take their duties seriously. Lawmakers are doing a public service by trying to get to the truth on whether the Trump Administration killed defenseless survivors of a drug-boat strike.
The controversy involves a Washington Post report that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered that no one survive a Sept. 2 missile strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean. The story cites unidentified sources claiming that the U.S. military, on Mr. Hegseth’s orders, conducted a second strike to finish off survivors clinging to the destroyed boat.
Mr. Hegseth called the story “fabricated, inflammatory and derogatory,” and said U.S. actions have been “in compliance with the law of armed conflict—and approved by the best military and civilian lawyers, up and down the chain of command.”
President Trump added Sunday that the Secretary “said he did not say that, and I believe him, 100%.” Mr. Trump added that he’ll “look into it, but no, I wouldn’t have wanted that, not a second strike.”
But the charge of deliberately killing the defenseless is serious enough to warrant a close look from Congress. That includes Mr. Hegseth giving an account under oath. The Administration so far seems to think it can ride out the story with ritual denunciations of the media.
If Mr. Hegseth is right, then the factual record will support him. There are layers of bureaucracy between the Secretary of Defense and the business end of a missile. You can bet senior military officers bought insurance on their own careers by recording the advice they gave and the directions they received.
The Pentagon’s own law of war manual prohibits “hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors.” Such excesses will also turn the public against allowing a President the power he may someday need to defend the country’s interests quickly.
The Law? Who Gives a Damn?
Open Support for War Crimes
Hegseth: “Start with the baseline. We have 20 million people invading the country for four years and we don’t know where they are coming from. … I wish everybody could be in the room watching our professionals like Mitch Bradley … and I have empowered them to make that call. I watched that strike. I didn’t stick around for that hour, or two-hour or whatever. I moved on to my next meeting. A couple hours later I learned that commander made – and he had the complete authority to do – and by the way Admiral Bradley made the correct decision – to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat. He sunk the boat and eliminated the threat. It was the right call. We have his back. And the American people are safer because narco-terrorists know you can’t bring drugs through the water – and eventually on land if necessary – we will eliminate that threat and are proud to do it.
A friend of mine is fond of saying “Judge a man by his enemies.”
I suggest we judge a man by his willful disregard for the law, willingness to condone war crimes, and his associates.
Hegseth just stated he was proud to approve of war crimes. We still do not know if Hegseth gave the order or if Bradley gave the order. But we do know that oner of them did. And we also know Hegseth openly condones war crimes.
And from the first clip, “We don’t fight with stupid rules of engagement.”
The logic of my friend amounts to this “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. How has that idea has worked out in the Mideast or anywhere else?
I also find it amusing “We have 20 million people invading the country for four years and we don’t know where they are coming from.”
I thought Trump stopped the “invasion”. Didn’t he brag about that?
Killing Survivors Is Not a legal or Moral Gray Area
The LA Times author Jon Duffy, a retired Navy captain, says Killing survivors is not a legal or moral gray area
If the United States has been firing second missiles at the survivors of its own strikes, we are no longer debating policy. We are describing a nation committing the very acts it once prosecuted others for. We have become what we once condemned.
There is a rule every professional military knows it cannot break: You do not kill people who can no longer fight. This restraint is not because it is merciful or sentimental. You don’t do it because the moment you do, you are no longer engaged in war. You are no longer fighting an enemy. You are killing for the state.
The Geneva Conventions forbid violence against anyone “placed hors de combat,” or “out of the fight.” The Department of Defense’s Law of War Manual restates this without qualification. Section 18.3.2.1 even states, “For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.” Every American service member learns it before deploying. Killing people who are swimming for their lives is not a “disputed framework.” It is the abandonment of law.
We know that a senior lawyer at U.S. Southern Command raised legal concerns and was sidelined from the process. Silencing a dissenting voice is not the act of a confident military. It is the act of one that knows its actions cannot withstand scrutiny. We know the SOUTHCOM commander, Admiral Alvin Holsey, abruptly announced his retirement amid these operations. While we do not yet know whether he objected, resisted or simply stepped aside — the effect was unmistakable: The last check on illegality disappeared, and the killing continued. That is not professionalism. That is a force conditioned to obey at the moment it most needed to resist.
A second missile does not fire itself. Killing survivors requires the participation or assent of entire layers of command: intelligence analysts, targeteers, pilots, strike cell leads, watch officers, military lawyers, commanders, post-strike assessors. This was not a lone aviator making a catastrophic judgment. This was institutional, and the institution committed a crime.
Firing on the defenseless is not a gray area or “irregular warfare.” Our uniforms may be cleaner, the legal memos more elaborate, the language more sanitized — but the act is the same. These are war crimes — ordered from the very top of the chain of command. And the consequence is unmistakable: the collapse of the moral credibility of American power.
There must be investigations. There must be consequences — reaching as far up the chain of command as the facts demand. A military that kills the helpless is not operating in a fog of war. It has crossed the final boundary separating a professional force from a system designed to execute, not to think. Once that boundary is breached, there is no such thing as “good order and discipline.” There is only obedience in service of harm.
A nation that orders its service members to kill the defenseless is not being protected by its military. It is morally injuring its warriors, dishonoring the institution they serve and disfiguring itself.
And a nation that tolerates this — without outrage, without accountability, without demanding that it stop immediately — can make no claim to exceptionalism. It has surrendered its soul.
Jon Duffy is a retired Navy captain. His active duty career included command at sea and national security roles. He writes about leadership and democracy.
Listen to This Deranged Puppet
Excuse me for asking but when did we declare war?
Department of War Crimes
Amusing WhatAboutIsm
Email From Jack Hopkins
Once you normalize unlawful orders…you don’t get to pick where it stops. It won’t just be “kill the cartel.” Or “kill the terrorists.” Or “kill the smugglers.” It becomes:
• “kill the enemies of the movement,”
• “kill the ones who resist,”
• “kill the ones we accuse,”
• “kill the ones who object.”
Every authoritarian slide in history begins with two steps:
- Label your enemy subhuman.
- Remove legal protections from them.
Pete Hegseth…just took both steps. And smiled.
If you do not give a damn about the law, then I pity you. And spare me your damn WhatAboutIsm.
Someone committed a war crime. Period. More specifically, Hegseth, Bradley, or both.
I do not doubt the Washington Post version. However, I admit that perhaps it’s wrong.
But if it was not Hegseth, who was it? (Because a video clearly showed survivors clinging to wreckage).
And even if Hegseth is telling the truth that he did not give the order, he openly admits he supports the order.
Thus, Hegseth supports war crimes. And That attitude has undoubtedly been conveyed down the line.
Trump has surrounded himself with people who do not give damn about laws. He picked Hegseth for that very reason. And everyone in the Administration is there voluntarily.
So instead of judging people by their enemies, you are better off judging them by their associates and their own actions.
How Long Will Hegseth Last?
The answer easy, although unspecific. Hegseth will survive until Trump decides Hegseth is a liability.
Eventually, Trump will throw Hegseth under the bus, then as per Mission Impossible, “disavow any knowledge of his actions.”
That said, Trump is likely to pardon Hegseth. But bear in mind, accepting a pardon is admitting guilt.
Related Posts
November 19, 2025: Court Accuses Trump’s Justice Dept of “Reckless Disregard of the Law”
Look what’s going on in the Comey case. Plus a re-look at gerrymandering.
November 20, 2025: Trump’s Incompetent Lawfare Against Comey Will Blow Sky High with Dismissal
Lawyers are amazed at the shocking incompetence of Trump’s Department of Justice.
The preceding opinion did not take too long to play out.
November 24, 2025: Case Against Comey Dismissed, Will Trump Be Silly and Appeal?
It’s all over but the final chapter. Trump’s case against Comey is dead.
Trump Closes Venezuela Air Space
Today, I note Trump Closes Venezuela Air Space Despite No Legal Authority, Attack Coming?
Trump doesn’t care about legalities.
It does not matter if Biden was worse or Kamala would have been worse.
WhatAboutWhoeverISM is irrelevant.
This is happening here and now and there is no excuse for it.
November 29, 2025: Sixty Attorneys Describe a Year of Chaos at the Justice Department
Is it the DOJ or DONJ Department of No Justice?
Addendum
Reader Comment: 25 years ago I was involved in the counter-narcotics missions. Intel suggested many of the “drug runners” were fishermen who’s families had been kidnapped, and they would be reunited if the fisherman agreed to do just one drug-run.
Mish: Does anyone doubt that possibility?
Addendum II
“Looks like they’re throwing him [Bradley] under the bus, but these kinds of decisions go all the way to the top,” said Senator Rand Paul.
Addendum III
Here’s the redacted video.
Are you a moron enough to suggest the boat was not destroyed?
Yes or No?
Addendum IV
Trump’s Pardon for Cocaine Juan
A jury found Honduras’s former President guilty. Why set him free?
Addendum
Reader Comment: 25 years ago I was involved in the counter-narcotics missions. Intel suggested many of the “drug runners” were fishermen who’s families had been kidnapped, and they would be reunited if the fisherman agreed to do just one drug-run.
Mish: Does anyone doubt that possibility?
===================================+
Here’s the redacted video.
https://youtu.be/3bDR4fum73Q
Are you a moron enough to suggest the boat was not destroyed?
Yes or No
============================================+
No answer from Ben on whether the boat was destroyed?
Fancy that
===================================================
I have not banned anyone for months but tonight I could not take it anymore
4 people banned
I don’t believe it. The intelligence agencies would be aware of this. Do you really think they would kill innocent people deliberately. The govt is fubb but not that bad.
It’s worse.
The government is not a monolithic entity and there are good people and bad people this administration. But the people in charge (particularly Miller, Hegseth and Noem) are among the worst people who ever worked in government.
I agree with Daniel
You are a proponent of oscams razor. The most rational explanation is mine, not the conspiracy theory idea the govt knows its deliberatly killing innocent civilians
You clearly don’t know what any of those words mean.
perfect low iq response.
“Oscam’s Razor”
Maybe you DO know what they mean. Who was Oscam, and did he keep his beard tidy, or did he just deceive people about it?
Occasionally razor look it up yourself. Wtf is your problem ahoole
Occams
Dude, killing these folks has almost zero effect on the flow of drugs into this country. So why do it? Because they know their supporters will love seeing the explosions and deaths on Fox News! They know MAGA will eat it up and come out to vote in the mid- terms. That’s in their best interests, and Occam’s Razor assumes people acting in their best interests.
No kidding, duh. Killing them will have no effect. Only way to stop it is legalization. I never inferred it would put a dent in the drug trade. I stated I don’t mind seeing drug dealers killed. I still have no problem with it despite all the bleeding hears here. I wonder if they would feel the same if a family member died from drug use.
The important thing about the people they’re killing is that they are powerless. They have no way whatsoever to fight back.
This is an important consideration when choosing victims.
Border Patrol apprehensions averaged under 10,000 monthly since Trump took office for his second term, the data show. Daily southwest border apprehensions averaged 245—less than 11 per hour—a 95 percent decrease from the prior administration’s 5,110 daily average from February 2021 to December 2024.
Given the facts available, occam’s razor would very much suggest that this government is deliberately killing civilians. Who are innocent until proven guilty in due process.
great you go with that. WTF
That doesn’t even make sense
The US has been deliberately killing civilians sine 1776. Do you still believe in Santa Clause?
exactly correct. and way before 1776 the colonial governments were doing far worse. the modern amerikan men seem to not comprehend we live in a very violent worldwide imperial empire that routinely kills innocent humans all over the world. hell we have bases everywhere to make sure the world understands the predicament of the past 100 years. i’m always amazed at the innocence of so many even on intelligent blogs like this one.
The most rational theory is Hegseth is doing exactly what he has repeatedly said he would do.
Sheeesh,
Our government has always been that bad.
But not this openly in disregard of the law
Yup. Burning kids in Waco.
hmk do not allow yourself to be so naive
They have been killing people without due process for three months now.
What’s next, you telling us the USA will not wage war to get at Venezuela’s largest proven oil reserves on the planet?
Wow! Naive.
Trump kept top secret intel including information about our own foreign operatives in an overflowing stack of boxes in a bathroom at Mar A Lago. This is how much they care about “the intelligence agencies.”
“I have not banned anyone for months but tonight I could not take it anymore
4 people banned”
Banning MAGA supporters just keeps everyone from seeing just how ignorant and evil they are. People need to see their comments so they can say “Wait. What? That’s not what I am about!”
We already know how evil and ignorant they are and they never change, they are stuck in pit of evil demons and choose to stay there. There’s no point in having them spew their vitriol here, this place is for the enlightened good people. 🙂
They have other sites they would like better like “Stormfront” and “The Daily Stormer”.
If you banned 4 people, we need a musical tribute, I suggest…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
Who were the 4 people banned?!
The War On Pete Hegseth
We now know, of course, it was all a lie. The Democrats and the national media want you to believe that two “fishermen” survived a first strike on their drug-laden speedboat and were then floating in the water helplessly like Rose and Jack at the end of “Titanic,” and we gunned them down as helpless victims and in violation of the Geneva Conventions. In reality, the two narco-terrorists were back on board their partially damaged boat, seeking to conduct damage control and recover their WMD cargo. The narco-terrorists and their lethal cargo were lawful targets under all U.S. laws and all treaties to which the U.S. is a party. No war crimes were involved—just an effective and entirely lawful military strike on narco-terrorists who kill thousands of Americans annually. The Washington Post lied, as is its wont in any matter involving the Trump Administration.
You are bleeping crazy.
With TWS.
And are a fool for thinking this will stop drugs.
It was a violation of international law to sin the boat.
It was a second violation, even more clear to kill people clinging to refuge.
You are one sick person in a sea of MAGA sickness.
Okay, some context- he will survive as well/long as pretty much all of FDR’s staff and FDR himself- he will survive as long the clowns in charge of Vietnam through multiple admins. I mean contextually this is a drop of a drop in a bucket relative to things from the last 125 years from the Wilson admin on down. Heck, go back to Lincoln.
MISH..please stick to economics and abstain from poluting your email messages with political commentary. From my perspective, you deminish your brand.
Sorry.
This stuff is extremely important. Trump’s total disregard for the law is worth discussing.
It is important the US respect laws. It does matter.
I understand it may hurt readership. So be it.
It’s a pity how many people want to bury this under the table and not discuss the hard realities.
I agree- problem is history and the facts of it, some of them we are still uncovering sort of paint an extremely different picture from Wilson, to FDR, to Truman, to Ike, LBJ to Nixon to Bush 1 and 2 to Obama. Just the Venona cables and what we have seen from the Soviet archives actually, if historians at large were honest unbiased folk would have them madly re-writing history from at least 1919 forward and the those presidential admins mentioned absolutely flaunted/disregarded the rule of law, and pissed on the constitution. I also think what is not understand, it is from that point forward that we no longer viewed either governmentally, or culturally the rule of law in this country the same. As I stated before, old honest Abe was also not a big believer in the rule of law as laid out by our founders either. Now, all that to say, I don’t want Trump doing that either. Like I have said before, Kruschev was right.
But Bimbo Bill’s 99 day air war over Serbia was Aok Mish, including a Chinese Embassy hit. An a C&C with a thing for devil’s with a blue dress on but no time for a bin Laden bombing. Hmmm. Apparently Hillary wasn’t providing oval orifice satisfaction in the Oval Office with no access to the Auto Pen for pardons as with Biden’s Jill an the gang, or Barack 2.0. .
Congress needs to step up forcefully to do what it was designed to do: to rein in rogue actions by the executive. If that doesn’t happen in this case, we have lost the Republic.
The boats the regime is claiming are going from Venezuela to the US would need to refuel over 20 times to get to Miami.
They are lying to us.
Mish, every other guest on the Judge Nap show is / has been outraged about it.
Here’s the latest, about 12 minutes in –
LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski : Is Pete Hegseth a War Criminal?
For context the second strike was approximately 3 seconds after the first strike on the video. Targeting a flaming boat not individuals in the water.
How long can Hegseth survive?
Perhaps until the first successful marksman?
Merely a very snarky musing.
Unfortunately there are a lot of nuts with guns out there.
na my guess is a drone
It does not really matter who gave the order for the second strike because the Secretary of Defense set the mission and carries out the President’s agenda. That mission is to attack, destroy, and kill an alleged drug trafficker in international waters using the U.S. military in a law enforcement action without providing any proof that those targeted were indeed smuggling drugs to the United States, because the boats are destroyed and all suspects are dead. These are the President’s policies, his cabinet secretaries are carrying them out, and those subordinate to the secretaries are given a choice: carry out the policies or be fired.
Why are we bombing suspected drug running boats when the president is pardoning the Honduran president who was convicted of conspiring to smuggle tons of cocaine into the United States?
Maybe they didn’t pay the pardon fee.
Current US Policy:
If you’re suspected of trafficking a small amount of drugs with no evidence, we will murder you, but if you’re convicted of trafficking an enormous amount of drugs with copious evidence, we will pardon you.
If you pay trump, he will turn you loose.
Normally, the comments sections of blogs are a cesspool. I’m gratified to see most folks here using some common sense and thought. There’s hope.
A very biased presentation. The WSJ doesn’t like Trump or Hegseth. This should be investigated. But I would not jump to conclusions that Hegseth gave the order for a second strike, just based on other comments not related to this particular action.
Remember that under Clinton, Biden, Obama, Bush II, the US struck and killed civilians by accident or through faulty intelligence. This is not about “what-aboutism,” just get to the issue without the other hubris. Obama actually ordered a drone strike killing of a US citizen without the benefit of a trial. The man was a terrorist, but back then Ron Paul noted that even Eichman got a trial.
The biggest crime committed was by Joe Biden against the American people by allowing 12 million plus illegals in – in contradiction to immigration laws. I just want people to get equally outraged about that – like the windbag Senator Kelly. He stood down when his state was being invaded and now, he claims some moral high ground.
Yes, “judge a man by enemies,” is not a fully complete position but it does define the times. (By the way that is quote from V I Lenin)
That’s a lot of whataboutism for something that’s not supposed to be whataboutism.
The Supreme Court majority opinion did not cite the declaration of Independence’s preconstitutional concerns regarding tyrants in their presidential immunity decision. Big mistake. An unleashed unrestrained tyrant and his obsequious sycophants now feel comfortable and immune in prosecuting political targets and murdering disabled people hanging on to a post-strike boat residual. Looking at the sentiment of these posted comments, I think the Dems would do well by swapping out the ‘donkey’ image for ‘a No Kings’ image and promising a constitutional amendment to define presidential accountability.
We are a humiliated nation. It will take a century to rebuild our reputation. But then, it will be too late.
It might be too late for all humanity in just a few years. Look at AI, AGI and ASI.
“We have 20 million people invading the country for four years and we don’t know where they are coming from”
How is this relevant to drug trafficking – both are bad but they are unrelated topics.
He may as well said: “Hey do not look here, look at that shiny thing over there”
Kegsbreath’s greatest accomplishment is earning a great alcoholic’s nickname. It will be interesting to see the Gordian knots the right ties themselves into defending him.
After ww2 the kangaroo court known as the “Nuremberg Trials” hung Germans for following orders. Of course, the perps would have met a firing squad if they refused the illegal orders. Clearly, there are war crimes here. If Admiral Bradley followed Hegseth’s order, he was guilty of an illegal act per Nuremberg. If Bradley committed the crime without permission, he is also guilty. I’m not a fan of capital punishment but if the Nuremberg precedent is used then Bradley should be hung.
Wouldn’t it be the entire tree of officers just “following orders” and passing along the command that is a war crime? Don’t they each have that responsibility to ensure they are following legal orders. If not, I think you are back into that attempt to dodge blame by “I was just following orders”.
In fact, the now famous video by Kelly et al was a reminder that illegal orders must be denied. Following illegal orders does not take away that responsibility.
The most nuanced answer I’ve heard so far re: this issue has been from Scott Ritter. The legality of the original strike order is one issue, but it’s another to double-tap the boat once they saw survivors in the water clinging to the boat. The initial order would be assumed to have been vetted and difficult to challenge and disobey, while the latter is an obvious war crime.
Not just Bradley, but every person in the chain of command who helped execute the order. The Japanese in WWII were famous for shooting (murdering) American sailors who were clinging on to flotsam for their lives. They were executed after the war. When I was in the US Navy, the code was to rescue enemy sailors whose ships we had destroyed. Not to interrogate them, but just because it is common human decency. And we would want the same for ourselves and fellow shipmates in a similar situation.
Not much common decency in slaughtering defenseless people.
It starts with trump and ends with the lowest rank that participated in the unlawful killings. They all knew or should have, “I was just following orders” is no defense. Something you learn very early in boot camp.
Doesn’t anybody else find the speed with which Hegseth and Trump distanced themselves from the Admiral odd? Almost like great lawyers like Lindsey Halligan or Alina Habba, as examples White House lawyer quality, told them it was NOT a war crime.
he needs to be immediately arrested and prosecuted.
In order for that, we need people in the Trump admin to uphold Law and Order
For over 20 years the US has stayed outside the ICC, mainly due to fears that American troops might be targeted. Yet in practice the ICC has never prosecuted a democratic state with a functioning justice system. NATO members like the UK, France and Germany have had no problems at all, and the feared “rogue prosecutor” has never appeared. Remaining outside now places the US in the same camp as Russia and China and weakens its calls for accountability elsewhere. If people believe the ICC has actually been misused, could they point to real examples rather than hypotheticals?
And perhaps the harder question: how long can the US claim moral leadership while insisting it deserves different rules to everyone else? If America wants to lead the democratic world, it might start by acting like a member of it—not an exception to it.
Well said.
The days of American moral leadership are in the rear-view mirror, sad to say. It would take a generation of sane leadership to repair that trust.
I don’t think the current Administration and possibly the GOP at large lays any claims to moral leadership. At least not ones that can stand up to scrutiny.
But the ICC can put out warrants for many of these people, greatly reducing their ability to golf internationally without risk of arrest.
Very long text to somehow protect drug runners. I won’t shed tears for them. Trump or Hegseth can bomb or hit with missiles all boats carrying drugs. I don’t care.
Of course. And we know they carried drugs because the right procedures and processes were followed. It is 100% clear and proven that these were not fisher board at all. In fact, I encourage our police to shoot more people randomly without any kind of proof or process. Ideally they start with my loud neighbours and people wearing tattoos. It will make us safer.
/sarc
Hegseth has lots of tattoos
deleted, responded to wrong person
yet the govt is the biggest drug supplier .
Thanks, I was wondering what the lowest IQ among us were thinking.
And the evangelicals show up!
You fail to acknowledge that there’s actually no proof and no due process to establish that proof. The only thing we have is the word of a man who has also claimed that they are eating the cats and dogs in Ohio, that Tylenol cause of autism, Inflation is gone and groceries are cheaper. These are all demonstrably false claims. I won’t go into more because 3 should be enough.
Given the track record of honesty, any claims need to be presented with evidence of a crime. Failing that, it’s best to just assume they are lying.
Some argue that is the point. To make the government so incompetent and untrustworthy that it needs to be completely thrown out and replaced with something “better”- which usually means you are no longer in charge of your life choices.
Sam, do you honestly believe those boats’ occupants were given Due Process? Can you outline how it worked if you claim they were given DP? Or are you just trolling here?
Personally I’m wondering why on an economic blog so much attention is given to events of a totally different nature. Without posting anything about the huge Minnesota scandal (which is indeed of economic interest). Or the climate policy changes in Europe (a subject that matches exactly the title of the blog). Just to prove that Trump is not Jesus? Zerohedge has the article “The New York Times Busts WaPo Over Bogus Hit Piece On Hegseth“.— Mish suggested that a reader complaining about unqualified foreign truck drivers was a bigot. Right after that, we had two multiple-fatality events involving such drivers. Then it was revealed that over 60,000 such licenses were given by CA to unqualified illegal migrants.
— Mish suggested that federal troops/ICE are Gestapo. And now I see on Zerohedge “Democrat Mayor Asks For Federal Help After Mass Shooting At Child’s Birthday Party“. Apparently crime problems had already reached crazy levels, yet remained unpublished, unreported, in a world that Mish would probably call “normalized” (when we just don’t know).– Readers suggest that Trump is too crazy to hold nukes. And now I see that European leaders are challenging Putin openly, and I read “Putin Says ‘Ready For War’ Against Europe If Attacks On Russian Tankers, Energy Continue”And you think Trump is crazy but the Europeans are logical?
Because Trump is a 100% genuine threat to our Constitution
I believe that should be obvious to anyone paying attention
Trump is national news.
The ZH article on WaPo is mostly trash.
Trump literally calling people of a certain nation “garbage” is newsworthy and Hitleresque. I don’t have time to write about everything.
Trump is president. He deserves scrutiny. No president in history has been as willing to break the law as Trump.
Energy post tomorrow. And a post on woke education written but timing uncertain.
Trump cannot change the Constitution.
His actions are not precedent to be followed, nor case law.
If I violate a law, it doesn’t mean that the law itself is destroyed. Same goes for the President.
Therefore Trump is not a threat to the Constitution. By violating the Constitution you are not a threat to it, you are just subject to legal action.
You are asking your readers to pay attention to something that is incorrect.
Trump will pay politically for his words and actions.
[[On the other hand, requests to enact generalized “hate speech laws” (by both parties, for different beneficiaries) or to enforce gun buybacks etc., are indeed threats to the Constitution, because they are proposing enactment of actual laws.]]
I will wait for the article on energy.
The SCOTUS ruled that the president is immune form any law if his action was taken as part of his official duty. Yes this destroys the law for one person. When the democrats are elected to the majority in the house and senate they MUST add members to the SCOTUS and repeal this interpretation and also the “united” decision. There are 13 federal appeals courts there should be the same number of justices.
Trump is charged with signing laws passed and enforcing the law. When a war crime is admitted to, he sides with the Secretary of War Crimes. When his supporters attempt to overthrow the government to install him as unelected dictator, he pardons them. He’s in a pseudo alliance with the most powerful autocratic regime on earth. He has been caught trying to rig elections in his favor, he has been subject to Russian blackmail regarding Epstein for a decade, and he shows no indications that he will leave office.
But you’ll support him cause screw the libs, right?
You don’t have to change the articles of government to change the government. Just ask Otto von Bismarck, Victor Emmanuel III, Tsar Nicholas III, King Luois XVI, and countless others that suffered the same mistake.
But then it’s all temporary. One guy does, the other guy undoes. While the articles remain the same.
Just like opening the borders of a country – although it’s supposed to be a very serious violation (in my time it was legally considered high treason), I don’t remember Mish or anyone calling it as such.
My point is that one can argue constitutional violations from both sides, but the threshold for criticism against Trump is very different from that of any democrats and most republicans.
Then again, I need to relax. I live in a country where a part-time community organizer who still lives with her parents (by her admission she could never afford anything else) just became mayor of Seattle.
And where channels and blogs are paid $3,000 per post to discretely support one side over the other (which explains the huge amount of posts and videos from both sides).
I need to see the humor of the whole situation. And how out of it I have been.
Thank you for your comments.
Are you required to read MISH? Do you get paid for reading MISH? If you no longer find his site worth reading what are you doing here?
There are about 195 million websites on the WWW. I’m sure you can find something for your closed mind to enjoy. You should check out “stormfront” or “the daily stormer” probably right up your alley.
That will teach Admirals of the Fleet not to page Sec. Hegseth for complicated topics like rules of engagement after “Happy Hour” at Foggy Bottom. After downing 3 stiff ones the little rascal would have droned Mother Theresa’s gondola. Now… these are the same people who have vowed to resume live-fire testing of nukes ASAP? ¡Buena suerte América!
A clearer example of a war crime could not possibly be adduced.
The “book” specifically mentions shipwrecked survivors and in the footnote the story of a Cdn hospital ship that was sunk and the Germans strafing those in the life boats.
On top of that:
All spot on, except i think it is to distract from the epstein story
This was supposed for kill 2 birds with one stone, but it ended up taking 2 missiles to kill all the fishermen.
At a cost of probably $2 million
no edit
I mean the whataboutism here is mindboglingly stupid. There is no moral equivalency. Either the US military comports to it’s own self imposed laws (UCMJ) provided by the civilian leadership, or it doesn’t. What other countries do or don’t do is irrelevant. This is not a Democratic or Republican party thing, this is a US military morality and rules of war and rule of law consideration.
It amazes me that people play the ‘well (insert Democratic leader here)’ did such and such. What wrong is wrong irrespective of administration.
I served.
I said that Clinton was a draft dodging piece of shit when he was elected, and stand by that. Trump, Captain Bone Spurs, is also a draft dodging piece of shit, and I stand by that. He’s making himself a bigger piece of shit by supporting war crimes, if that turns out to be the case. I don’t give two shits what party he hails from, war crimes are still war crimes, Democratic administration or Republican administration.
I lean towards your view, Mish, so I don’t site this as ‘whataboutism’:
Obama killed 400-800 innocent civilians (“collateral damage”) in addition to his targets in >500 covert missile/drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, & Somalia according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. (War-loving CFR estimates 324 dead innocent civilians.)
The often-mandated Emergency Use Authorized jab killed and maimed thousands, while enriching the bejesus out of Pfizer, Moderna, and their connections in the medical-industrial complex.
The US govt has much more in common with organized crime than it does differences.
All of that was whataboutism. And it’s “cite”.
While conducting a ‘war against narco-terrorists’ in Venezuela, Trump pulled the most in-your-face trolling possible by pardoning the ex-President of Honduras a few days ago, who was sentenced to 45 years of prison for his role in importing untold amounts of illegal drugs into the U.S.
You can drive a truck through the ‘story’ that Venezuela is somehow a narco-terrorist threat to the U.S. It’s a much flimsier premise than the “weapons of mass destruction” myth that was used to invade Iraq.
I never believed the WMD claim at the time. Not even a microscopic bit. The big clue is that when Iraq actually allowed inspectors in just before the war, they weren’t finding anything (surprise!)
But Bush called off the inspections because the (non-existent) threat was so severe that Saddam could strike us at any moment and no more time could be wasted on actually looking for WMDs. Only uncritical minds believed such nonsense at the time.
It doesn’t take much time to poke a thousand holes in the narco-terrorist story, but will any Americans bother with critical thinking this time? If they care to, they might want to look at the history of what Trump did in Venezuela during his first term because he’s basically picking up where he left off.
Originally I was going to rhetorically ask how long before some European nation indicts Secy. Hegseth and seeks to extradite him to face trial. However, reading the article the whole thing is a bit muddy and may have to wait until Congress investigates. I still think that Hegseth can forget about traveling to Europe on any ordinary passport.
If Hegseth were to be forced out, who would take his place?
Tom Cotton?
Lindsay Graham?
Nikki Haley?
John Bolton?
Sigh…
Probably another talk show host.
Klyde Kiddlehopper stronger credentials than any you have suggested.
probably a hot woman
Only if you like jelly lips and skeleton faces. The Mar A Lago look turns my stomach.
They’re using the Nixon et al Watergate Era tactic of “Plausible Deniability”. Just create some weasely excuses no matter how untrue.
Will the military carrying out the orders be thrown under the bus, and possibly pardoned later? My guess is this leak came out because someone involved in the military action has recorded proof of the orders all the way up to Hegseth. Even Republicans are now demanding answers, so expect everyone to be called in to Congressional hearings to testify who gave what order and instruction when. Should be interesting to see what happens.
The military will be thrown under the bus, there will be no pardons later.
This is the US Navy chain of command.
President of the United States: Commander in Chief.
Secretary of Defense: Reports to the President and oversees the military branches, including the Navy.
Secretary of the Navy: Leads the Department of the Navy, which includes the Navy and the Marine Corps.
Chief of Naval Operations (CNO): The most senior naval officer, a four-star admiral who reports to the Secretary of the Navy and leads the Navy’s staff.
Any of these people issuing or following illegal orders should be prosecuted. They all know better. The POTUS is insane and might use that as a defense, the SOD is a drunk and might try to use that as a defense, neither will work as a defense for murder. And trump’s mental illness will not allow him to use the defense that he is insane.
Interesting that a new biography of Eisenhower The Light of Battle by Michael Paradis was released earlier this year. Ike had one view of war and today we have an administration with another view. I believe Ike did respect the Rules of Engagement and won a war. Today we have a President who supports bombing boats with no regard for who is on the boat, while pardoning the drug king masterminds. A new strategy.
I think trump’s actions are filing two needs he has. 1. Giving him a large hit of dopamine by defying the law and getting away with it and 2. Getting a huge monetary reward for the pardon in this case.
In trump’s case no actual strategy (see above) in the Hegseth case his brain is probably fried from the abuse of alcohol.
And now for the New York Times of all outlets torching the Washington Post:
According to five U.S. officials, who spoke separately and on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter that is under investigation, Mr. Hegseth, ahead of the Sept. 2 attack, ordered a strike that would kill the people on the boat and destroy the vessel and its purported cargo of drugs.
But, each official said, Mr. Hegseth’s directive did not specifically address what should happen if a first missile turned out not to fully accomplish all of those things. And, the officials said, his order was not a response to surveillance footage showing that at least two people on the boat survived the first blast.
Admiral Bradley ordered the initial missile strike and then several follow-up strikes that killed the initial survivors and sank the disabled boat. As that operation unfolded, they said, Mr. Hegseth did not give any further orders to him.
Ok kiddos, here’s what really happened. The initial strike did not destroy the boat, it only disabled it. Well, I’m sorry to inform you, but from a law of armed conflict legal doctrine a disabled boat isn’t a destroyed boat. Therefore, this Admiral Bradely was completely within his rules of engagement to ensure the boat was completely destroyed. This is called operating within a “designated military objective” which was to destroy the boat.
And, how amazing was it that the Fantastic 6 came out with their “ignore illegal orders” propaganda BEFORE this second story broke? That’s exactly bassackwards from how you would do things, IF YOU KNEW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT HEGSETH HAD ISSUED AN ILLEGAL ORDER.
Furthermore, how CRAZY is it that all this drops within the same seven-day period as this trumped up / fake / anonymous sourced FBI pseudo analysis that appears to suggest that Kash Patel & Dan Bongino are in over their heads.
Dude, this is some of the most evil, knives out stuff the Dems have pulled since the early days of the Russia Hoax.
Excuse me. It clearly shows that the DEEP STATE IS ALIVE & WELL.
Yes, and Trump IS the deep state
Fools don’t see it.
Here’s the redacted video.
https://youtu.be/3bDR4fum73Q
Are you a moron enough to suggest the boat was not destroyed?
Yes or No
The boats aren’t very big.
That’s ok then. Please keep on shooting the boats as they are not very big.
How am I a moron, when @ the 2:42 second mark, it’s EXTREMELY CLEAR that the boat is still floating?
BTW, it military terms that’s not destroyed. FYI – destroyed means on its way to the bottom of the Gulf of America. Therefore, when Admiral Bradley testifies tomorrow, he’s going to remind all of these meddling Congress persons that his follow-up strike order was lawful.
Again, you might not like this as a civilian, but it’s legal in military circles. And everyone who walks into that meeting tomorrow knows this. IT’S ALL FOR SHOW. THE RUSSIA COLLUSION HOAX CONTINUES UNABATED.
FYI – disabled DOES NOT mean destroyed, so you can stop armchair quarterbacking the military.
Have you seen the video?
I have
The boat was destroyed and 2 people were clinging to scraps or refuge.
Now stop the horseshit
More cussing. I must be triggering your TDS.
Now the story is “several follow-up strikes”.
And???
Of course that is not crazy. With the trump administration it is a given that something morally abject happens in any 7 day period. This time it was war crimes, next time it is epstein, or just deporting people again without due process. The common denominator – aside from the immorality – everything is handled with astounding incompetence.
Hegseth sounds like Netanyahu claiming that the IDF is the most moral army in the world, while slaughtering Palestinian babies, children and women. This latest attack on Venezuela is a war crime and Hegseth, who issues the order needs to go to jail. But Americans never go to jail for war crimes, do they?
No they don’t go to jail for war crimes. Dick Cheney lived a long life, and had a bipartisan funeral decades after lying us into war with Iraq. Kamala even brought the Cheneys on tour with her during the election last year.
No doubt the wanton killing by Satanyahoo inspired the Donald to perpetrate war crimes like his zionist buddy.
If they are narco terrorists then the Geneva Convention doesn’t protect them. Not a war crime to execute terrorists.
Now if they are just fishermen forced to do drug running by the cartels then that is a problem. Need to decapitate the leaders of the cartels and any government officials protecting them to give other fishermen a chance.
“Narco-terrorist” is just a propagandistic label designed so that people can be convinced that an extrajudicial murder is deserved and not think twice about it. Frankly, I doubt our military knows who half these people are before (if that) before firing on them. In any case, what goes around comes around. By our actions and casual attitude towards murder we have become a disgrace. Furthermore, we could very well be radicalizing and creating the next generation of terrorists who eventually cross the border seeking revenge.
Correct Mick
“By our actions and casual attitude towards murder we have become a disgrace”. I submit the USA government and military have ALWAYS been a disgrace.
The U.S. government has been associated with numerous actions described as atrocities, war crimes, and human rights abuses since 1776. These include actions taken during periods of westward expansion, various wars, and domestic policy decisions.
Actions taken against Native American populations by the U.S. government have been described by some sources as a de facto genocide.
Allegations of war crimes and atrocities have been made regarding several conflicts throughout U.S. history.
Philippine-American War During this conflict (1899-1902)U.S. forces employed brutal tactics, including torture (such as waterboarding), use of concentration camps where thousands died, and the killing of civilians. General Jacob H. Smith ordered his men to kill anyone over the age of ten on the island of Samar.
World War II President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066, leading to the internment of approximately 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent in “relocation camps”.
Korean War The No Gun Ri massacre occurred in 1950, where U.S. soldiers killed an estimated 100 to 300 South Korean civilians.
Vietnam War Notorious incidents include the My Lai massacre in 1968, where U.S. Army soldiers killed hundreds of unarmed Vietnamese civilians. Other alleged atrocities involved the Phoenix Program and Operation Speedy Express.
War on Terror (Afghanistan and Iraq) U.S. military personnel were involved in prisoner abuse and torture at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, which came to light in 2004. Other incidents include the Haditha massacre and the Azizabad airstrike.
These are known atrocities I would bet there are hundreds more simply covered up or not reported.
thank you for reminding this blog that this stuff is nothing new. amerika is founded on violence slavery and genocide. and we bomb the hell out of people from Nam rice farmers to WMD bullshit for oil. to think this last little bombing is unique is precious.
“Furthermore, we could very well be radicalizing and creating the next generation of terrorists who eventually cross the border seeking revenge.”
That’s a great idea that’s worked out so well over the last 40 years.
Need to decapitate the top US Govt officials to give the USA and the World a chance.
Trump def won’t be getting his Nobel now.
You underestimate the sycophants in Oslo.
These people being killed aren’t innocent soldiers fighting for their country. They’re evil pieces of s*** that have the blood of many American lives on their hands. Legal or not i am glad they were killed.
The end justifies the means idiocy of fools who don’t even understand this will have zero impact on the war on drugs
It will actually drive up the price, and make it more profitable for shippers.
You’re not in the military, so you don’t get to tell the military how to run their operations.
These strikes were legal and that’s exactly what the testimony tomorrow will show, unless there’s something that hasn’t been revealed by now which is entirely possible.
Bullshit…. from the truckload of bullshit you drive around spreading.
You are either an idiot or TWS liar who does not understand the law.
Many, me included, believe the initial strike were illegal.
It is 100% certain the followup strike was.
I have seen the unredacted video and wish I took pictures of two people clinging to debris who were then killed.
Your TWS and support for illegal actions for whatever reason is massive.
In America, the military are ALWAYS overseen by civilians. The American people ALWAYS get to tell the military how to run their operations.
Why do you hate the Constitution so much?
I see BenW is still full of shit & ignorance… It’s hard to tolerate other Americans who don’t understand the most basic concepts of our form of government.
it’s no war on drugs. it’s amerikans insatiable demand for drugs being fullfilled by enterprising young men around the globe to the local corner boys in amerikan cities and towns……
You don’t have a clue who they are. Drugs will come in through Mexico, not off these boats which would never have reached U.S. shores. Their blood is on OUR hands, and many more Americans will die if we start a war.
Correct again.
The vast majority of drugs com from Mexico in cars driven by US citizens!
And as usual we would lose the war.
Most likely. I was watching Colonel Douglas MacGregor characterize the situation if we attempt a land invasion. It wouldn’t be pretty.
It actually doesn’t matter. They are entitled to due process. Why do we never see the evidence?
25 years ago I was involved in the counter-narcotics missions. Intel suggested many of the “drug runners” were fishermen who’s families had been kidnapped, and they would be reunited if the fisherman agreed to do just one drug-run.
Warning shots across the bow would always stop the boats, hands raised, drugs seized.
————————————–
Venezuela Drug Boats – The Two Opposing Positions
————————————-
Karoline Leavitt Video
Which apparently admits everything (my opinion) but just trys to justify it
Summary:
Leavitt’s December 1 briefing reframes the September 2 incident:
Hegseth authorized Bradley for “kinetic strikes”; Bradley’s second strike “eliminated the threat” lawfully. She ties it to the 21-strike campaign, citing “narco-terrorist” threats (Tren de Aragua FTO designation, State Dept. Aug. 2025).
Apparently indicating Not Hegseths Fault but Bradley’s discretion,
Leavitt invokes UNCLOS Art. 87 (international waters freedom) for jurisdiction,
ICCPR Art. 51 (self-defense) for imminence, and LOAC (GWS-Sea Art. 13 protections) for compliance
Leavitt claiming strikes vetted against DoD Manual.
However – Opposing View
Absent armed conflict, interdiction falls under law enforcement
UNCLOS Art. 108; but no arrest(s) were attempted;
a second strike on survivors breaches hors de combat rules (AP I Art. 41, customary).
DoD Manual and Llandovery (AJIL 1922) deems such “clearly illegal,” mandating refusal (§18.3.2.1).
Tren de Aragua FTO label doesn’t elevate civilians to combatants without direct participation (DoD §4.3);
. So that appears to be the two opposing positions
===================================
PAGE 1088 – Department of Defense Law Manual
https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-1/-1/0/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%202023.PDF
”
18.3.2 Refuse to Comply With Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations.
Members of the armed forces must refuse to comply with clearly illegal orders to commit law of war violations. In addition, orders should not be construed to authorize implicitly violations of law of war.
18.3.2.1 Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations.
The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal.
For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.27
Similarly, orders to kill defenseless persons who have submitted to and are under effective physical control would also be clearly illegal.28
”
— I shortened footnote 27 – In pertinent part:
Footnote 27
“27 Judgement in Case of Lieutenants Dithmar and Boldt, Hospital Ship “Llandovery Castle””
” This happens only in rare and exceptional cases. But this case was precisely one of them, for in the present instance, it was perfectly clear to the accused that killing defenceless people in the life-boats could be nothing else but a breach of the law. As naval officers by profession they were well aware, as the naval expert Saalwiachter has strikingly stated, that one is not legally authorized to kill defenceless people. ”
\
.
“Karoline Leavitt Video
Which apparently admits everything (my opinion) but just ties to justify it”
Correct
Thank you for paying attention.
And she sounded totally confused too.
Now, who will be the first clown to point out the ineptitude of Biden’s press secretary as if it at all relevant?
Yup. She blamed the admiral. That’s how Hegseth will hang on.
She wasn’t there. She repeats what she is told to say.
And it changes every few days, if not sooner.
The commenters here who were attacking the Democrats for saying that the military should not follow illegal orders are now obviously and factually in the wrong (although they were clearly in the wrong then too.) It needs to be screamed from the mountain tops right now: our military should not follow illegal orders!
Democrats standing behind the law! You are kidding?
Like all their previous impeachment efforts can’t come up with some decent policies of their own so what the hell impeach the guy!
Waste more monies. Hooray!
Here’s Hegseth saying it. I didn’t know he was a Democrat.
https://youtu.be/nk_WaGy1aY4?si=bJGrBf6p-y0jn8mN
Well well well….following illegal orders leads to war crimes and now the people playing toy soldier are running scared saying they didn’t know what was going on.
More ammunition for impeachment when dems win the midterms.
Where are the tools and fools that fell for all of this?
Here we go again! Everyone tariffs us we tariff them we are wrong.
Others countries kill our soldiers with children carrying bombs ok.
We kill a few drug runners and oh know it’s all wrong!
Don’t you think the rules have changed and we are working against a stacked deck.
Yes in a perfect world no one shoots injured survivors that goes for all not just the USA!
You wage war and hide out in hospitals don’t hear that strategy criticized.
I believe Obama droned a wedding ceremony killing many innocent people didn’t hear our congress or press saying his actions were illegal.
It’s a “war on drugs” even our press prints that are they lying too.
Nothing is perfect ….Nothing.
Sure “Ken.” “But whatabout…”
“Ken” sounds a lot like BenW…..and out of the blue no less.
He needs somebody to vote his comments.
I have repeatedly called drone strikes illegal?
And you.
How big a hypocrite are you?
Set aside that blanket “drone strikes are illegal”. Both sides of the Russia : Ukraine conflict engage heavily in drone strikes. That is the new element of war.
We wouldn’t be destroying these boats if Little Marco Rubio weren’t obsessed with overturning Maduro. If the US succeeds in installing bogus Nobel Peace Prize winner Maria Machado as president, any drug trafficking out of Venezuela will be unimpeded.
Hey wanna hear a joke? Cartel de los Soles.
It has been evident for a long time that we have lost the ‘war on drugs’. When will we accept that?
The war on drugs keeps the private prisons full. The war will never be over.
in my old hood in brooklyn, i called the corner boy heroin dealers, ages 15 to 65, our pharmaceutical representatives. i was actually friends with many of them. got to know their stories. gifted them little trinkets of silver and copper coins as peace offerings.
Unidentified sources cited by the Washington Post…please tell me why I should give it even a moment of credibility.
Then why don’t you read?
Are you incapable of clear thought?
Hegseth condones war Crimes.
What is your idiotic excuse for that?
Tired of this shit.
With taco, how long is a piece of string? Taco has proven on many occasions that he will gladly throw one of his minions to the wolves if it takes the heat off of him.
Hell, I think he does it for fun and the dopamine hit.