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Airlines to Accept Bitcoin in Payment: Hooray?

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38 comments on Airlines to Accept Bitcoin in Payment: Hooray?

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Spanish airline Vueling will begin accepting bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as payment in early 2023.

“Ticket prices will still be displayed in euros”

How much will the airline keep in Bitcoin and how much will it immediately dump for euros?

Think about this for a second. 

  1. Someone sells Bitcoin to buy literally anything.
  2. The merchant gets Bitcoin. Unless it keeps Bitcoin, a new buyer is needed.
  3. What is the new buyer willing to pay for Bitcoin?

Preference Shift

Selling Bitcoin to buy an airline ticket, a boat, a coat or anything else implies the buyer of the boat, the coat, or the airline ticket now prefers that item over Bitcoin!

And on top of that, the Bitcoin seller has to pay taxes on their gains. 

Hey, weren’t we told it was irrational to sell Bitcoin at these prices? Those same people cheer nonsense of some random merchant accepting bitcoin.

Hooray!?

Cashing out puts downward pressure on Bitcoin. And selling bitcoin to buy anything is cashing out. 

Tradeoff 

There is a tradeoff, so it’s not all one sided. The tradeoff is greater acceptance. But that tradeoff comes at a cost. 

What price is the marginal buyer willing to pay for a Bitcoin? 

Supply of Bitcoin

The supply of Bitcoin is every coin ever mined minus lost keys. Every second, someone holding Bitcoin has to decide whether to HODL or sell to buy something.

Those not in or wanting more have to decide if they prefer $ or Bitcoin. 

The more merchants that take Bitcoin (and don’t HODL it), the more downward pressure there is as someone cashes out.

Of course, given that selling now is “irrational”, why would anyone want to sell their Bitcoin for an airline ticket then pay taxes on the gain to boot?

Hoot of the Day

1: It’s irrational to sell Bitcoin
2: Hooray! More merchants take Bitcoin, it’s going to the moon.

From a price standpoint, the best case for Bitcoin believers is no one sells their bitcoin to buy anything, yet they cheer when merchants accept it.

Either way, there is a hell of a lot of pressure on what the marginal buyer is willing to pay.

 This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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kewtiepie
kewtiepie
1 year ago
  • Are you still fawning over baby girl Amber Heard? I bet you wish you were Johnny Depp and you would beg her back wouldn’t you? Plus you have money and not be broke!
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Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Letter in Support of Responsible Fintech Policy
June 10, 2022
Dear U.S. Congressional Leadership, Committee Chairs and Ranking Members,
We are 1500 computer scientists, software engineers, and technologists who have spent decades working in these fields producing innovative and effective products for a variety of applications in the fields of database technology, open-source software, cryptography, and financial technology applications.
Today, we write to you urging you to take a critical, skeptical approach toward industry claims that crypto-assets (sometimes called cryptocurrencies, crypto tokens, or web3) are an innovative technology that is unreservedly good. We urge you to resist pressure from digital asset industry financiers, lobbyists, and boosters to create a regulatory safe haven for these risky, flawed, and unproven digital financial instruments and to instead take an approach that protects the public interest and ensures technology is deployed in genuine service to the needs of ordinary citizens.
We strongly disagree with the narrative—peddled by those with a financial stake in the crypto-asset industry—that these technologies represent a positive financial innovation and are in any way suited to solving the financial problems facing ordinary Americans.
Not all innovation is unqualifiedly good; not everything that we can build should be built. The history of technology is full of dead ends, false starts, and wrong turns. Append-only digital ledgers are not a new innovation. They have been known and used since 1980 for rather limited functions.
….
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Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
The Coin That Could Wreck Crypto
As cryptocurrencies have plunged, attention has focused on a potential point of vulnerability: the market’s reliance on a so-called stablecoin called Tether.
By David Yaffe-Bellany
June 17, 2022
SAN FRANCISCO — Cryptocurrency prices are plummeting. A so-called stablecoin lost all its value in a matter of days. A newfangled crypto bank halted withdrawals. And investors have been plunged into financial ruin.
Now the crypto industry is grappling with an even grimmer prospect: The worst may be yet to come.
Concern is mounting over another potential vulnerability in the crypto market: Tether, a company whose namesake currency is a linchpin of crypto trading worldwide. Long one of the most scrutinized companies in the industry, Tether is facing heightened pressure from regulators, investors, economists and growing legions of skeptics, who argue it could be another domino to fall in an even bigger crash.
“Tether is really the lifeblood of the crypto ecosystem,” said Hilary Allen, a finance expert at American University. “If it imploded, then the entire facade falls down.”
….
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Bam_Man
Bam_Man
1 year ago
Absolutely NOTHING about BitCoin makes an ounce of sense – except when you look at it strictly as a gambling token.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Based on how profitable airlines have been historically, they’ll convert to euros almost immediately. Airlines can barely make money doing what they know much less bitcoin trading. That is unless their employees are willing to be paid in bitcoin of their fuel supplier is willing to take it.
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Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
I get a kick out of the public.com cable ad I still see on occasion.
The dude is holding his phone and his screen shows bitcoin at $38K.
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago

Bitcoin will soon be known as shitcoin.

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killben
killben
1 year ago
Will BitPay be around in early 2023?
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PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
I must have missed it. Who exactly said hooray?
I am not an expert in this area. Are there are many places that accept bitcoin, or other crypto as a medium of exchange?
Has anyone here ever used bitcoin as a medium of exchange to buy anything?
Has anyone here ever used gold as a medium of exchange to buy anything?
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Yes.
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RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
“More merchants are willing to accept Bitcoin.”
Will Stonks be next? GME or AMC for a European vacation package?
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Morn
Morn
1 year ago
Reply to  RonJ
Unironically, yes, but not in the way you’re thinking.
In 3-10 years (if it were just a matter of tech – 3; but because of legal/regulatory hurdles we’ll say 10 or so), largely because of what infrastructure crypto protocols are building now, you will take tokenized stocks/commodities position (stocks will eventually be tokenized) or even a synthetic derivative version of that stock that mirrors its value, and be able to seemlessly post it as collateral for a loan to fund your vacation from your desk at home.
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Jack
Jack
1 year ago
Reply to  Morn
if shares are tokenized, would this mean that stock broker accounts would become obsolete.
You would sell shares using apps like coinbase.
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SAKMAN1
SAKMAN1
1 year ago
Reply to  Jack
LOL – everything would be a bitcoin, except some of those things would also give you ownership of something in the material world.
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Morn
Morn
1 year ago
Reply to  Jack
Because of regs and KYC, I don’t think it’ll be quite like that as far as stock brokers go. But the brokers will adapt and evolve much like you can buy stocks and trade options easily through your phone for no fees whereas before you couldn’t. Your stock holdings will certainly be more fungible though. If you could take low interest loans regularly and easily through your desktop with your blue-chip stock holdings, that you can actively hedge, would use a credit card again for anything you wouldn’t pay off within the month?
The more relatable use case for tokenization would be a much easier experience transferring stock/retirement instruments from a deceased relative to others (a conditionally transferable NFT representing that persons holdings could simply be transferred to you with all the related assets when those conditions are verified – this is accomplished by on-chain oracles that take real-world data, say a death certificate, and bring it into the blockchain world). We’ll probably also end up taking out seamless home-equity loans or selling vehicles over the phone this way in the next 10 years as well (all via NFT representations of these assets).
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Morn
Morn
1 year ago
Reply to  Morn
Now that I think about it the “for dummies” version of stock loans will probably have some form of hedging automatically as the default for consumers.
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Carl_R
Carl_R
1 year ago
While I don’t understand why anyone would want to pay in Bitcoin, or in gold, it seems like the logical step would be a way to integrate a payment option to pay with Bitcoin into ApplePay and SamsungPay. Then you could use it anywhere, and no merchant would care.
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Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Still wouldn’t work. If you’re a business, revenue forecasting can take a big hit when you accept Bitcoin at some value and then a few hours later, that value might have radically declined.
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MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Hooray is correct. As a libertarian, I love that a company decided to take a different form of payment for their services. This is what the FREE MARKET and liberty is all about, allowing people to trade in whatever shape or form they choose to do and accept the risk. Would it make everyone happier if the airline had announced they were accepting gold or silver for tickets?
I think you could take this post and substitute “gold” for “bitcoin” and the same arguments would apply.
On the one hand, everyone here hates central banks and on the other hand when companies or people decide to dump central bank currencies and trade in something else, people get mad and/or ridicule it. I just don’t get it. If people don’t like bitcoin then don’t buy or trade in it. Simple.
The airline will either reap huge rewards if bitcoin goes to $100,000 in a few years or reap sorrow if bitcoin goes to zero. The important thing is that it’s their choice to make and that’s the way it should be.
I can guarantee that bitcoin will outlast all boomers though and possibly all GenXers. It will be Millenials that will decide the ultimate fate of bitcoin.
GBTC finally broke $15 and I think I will pick some back up. It’s a little over $12 and in my price target range. I will likely pick some up tomorrow.
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Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
‘Guarantee’ what exactly? That bitcoin zeros and ones are still in the digital ether?
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MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I guarantee that bitcoin will be trading thru 2050 barring the end of human civilization which is expected to happen in 2040 by some. For context, people still trade baseball cards from 100 years ago. People collect and trade coins from 1000+ years ago and some trade and collect rocks from billions of years ago.
but somehow bitcoin will vanish because some people here don’t like it?
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Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
What can I say except good luck on any perception of digital value lasting longer than a few years. Tangible things that are unique, yes.
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MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
We’ll see, that’s what makes a free market. There will be winners and there will be losers.
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
And I guarantee that Beanie Babies will be trading through…
Pet Rocks or regular rocks?
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Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Actually I don’t care what the airline or any merchant does. But yes it is their choice. And merchants have a choice. If the merchant did not have a choice and does now, then that would be worth cheering.
If the airline accepted gold would I cheer? Peanut Butter? No, it would not matter at all.
It’s their decision, but nothing but a marketing gimmick hoping to attract bitcoin lovers into that airline while essentially doing nothing meaningful. Worth cheering? Why?
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MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Worth cheering? Why?
Because it moves the needle Mish. The entire universe is built on tiny incremental changes as is all economic theory over the past 2000 years. 10,000 years ago people traded furs for fruits or whatever and 1000 years from now it may all be digital ether. Heck, in theory we are all supposed to upload our brains into a big giant mega computer and live forever. Our consciousness is nothing but electrical impulses in our brain, the same thing bitcoin is but now I’m getting too philosophical.
If anything bitcoin is one huge giant economic experiment much like the covid vaccine was a year ago. We don’t know where either will lead us 5, 10 or 100 years from now but we can hope that it will make the world better somehow.
I don’t always agree with you but I do appreciate all your hard work keeping this site up and running.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
You can’t compare gold and bitcoin. Gold would have to weighed and verified as being 99.99% pure and would have to be exchanged in an amount equal to what’s due. No one is claiming gold will replace paper currency or be used in every day transactions. Rather they claim it will retain value a lot better than fiat currencies.
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Historically gold remains desirable long after a Government promise becomes irrelevant.
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Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
It means they’ve gone to significant trouble to integrate old and busted tech.
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Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
I guess they’ll immediately sell it for Euros and hope to take a large cut, which they’d probably need to allow for the volatility.
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shamrock
shamrock
1 year ago
I guess if you sell any asset to buy something then you get hit with capital gains. The best way is to do like the billionaires, borrow money with the asset as collateral if you actually need to buy something.
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Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
Reply to  shamrock
“then you get hit with capital gains”
Will there be any by 2023 -:)
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Morn
Morn
1 year ago
Reply to  shamrock
DeFi is literally building the technological infrastructure to make this possible for regular plebs, but the dinosaurs just read about the rubes who got blown up getting in over their heads and dismiss the entire industry.
Within ten minutes I can post BTC or ETH as collateral on-chain, take out a loan in USDC (dollar-denominated stable coin), convert to USD and have it on its way to my bank, and either buy a put option, a down binary-option, or open a short perp position (all on-chain) against that asset to hedge my downside without talking to a lender or getting any kind of loan approval. The only gate-keeper in that process involves the conversion of USDC to USD and getting it to your bank (KYC will apply there) – but there are even ways around that if you want to get weird with gift cards or don’t live in U.S.
Mish’s buddy Jim has a good take for everyone here:

Still think this
is case more than ever.

Note that I have never
recommended a crypto, I never will. I have suggest taking a tiny amount
of money to “learn by doing” in
DeFi.

Once you understand what is being attempted,
obsessing about token prices totally misses the point. link to t.co“>link to t.co

—
Jim Bianco biancoresearch.eth (@biancoresearch) link to twitter.com“>May
27, 2022

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Jackula
Jackula
1 year ago
Reply to  Morn
Agree DeFi is a totally different case. the technology is highly useful but crypto coins as a replacement for gold is a ways off.
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Morn
Morn
1 year ago
Reply to  Jackula
No doubt. Crypto as means of payment has largely already been left behind from a narrative standpoint (that’s why there are stables). As far as a store of value, that depends on sentiment and adoption (as Mish correctly, but skeptically, notes) – Bitcoin and to a lesser extent Eth. 99% of the other tokens are useless and many are scams. What bothers me is that most people don’t even know why they are scams or useless, they wouldn’t know a whitepaper if it slapped them in the face but they dismiss the entire sector because “it isn’t real” – guess they didn’t make any good dot-com era investments either. The tokens that do have use either directly collateralize an asset or assets, control protocols that accrue hundreds of millions if not billions of fee revenue, or incentivize providing liquidity in a decentralized way. Most people don’t understand the role of tokens in incentivizing individual and decentralized actors to act in self interest.
The token (as far as protocols go – all assets will eventually be tokenized IMO, even if run by TradFi gatekeepers) narrative becomes invalid and useless if regulations are so rigid they make it uneconomical. My bet is that the efficiencies to be gained by a generally more laissez-faire approach to tokenized assets will become so apparent that it becomes impossible to adopt an over-bearing regulatory approach. The U.S. already seems to be leaning this way and given the nature of digital-tech it would only take one significant government to take this approach for it to upset those who choose a more stringent stance (the Swiss-bank analogy but on an even more influential scale).
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Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Beginning in 2023… actually it is 13 crypto-currencies… How long before low-cost Spanish airline Vueling crashes? IMHO by December 2023, since there is little, if any, advantage to Vueling, and an added risk of speculation.
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Karlmarx
Karlmarx
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I’ve flown Vueling. It was about as pleasant as investing in bitcoin was this month
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Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Karlmarx
Like I said, December, 2023, crash and burn.
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