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Alice In Wonderland Stock Market Gain Expectations Now Up to 17.5% Annually

The image (plus my comment about a bone) and the lead comment are from the WSK article When a 59% Annual Return Just Isn’t Enough

Let’s compare investor expectations in the WSJ to John Hussman’s latest expectations starting with some snips from the Journal.

In a recent survey of 750 U.S. individual investors, Natixis Investment Managers found these people expect to earn 17.3% this year, after inflation.

That might not sound like pie in the sky. The S&P 500 returned 18.4% last year, counting dividends, and is up 15.9% so far in 2021. Recent past returns always mold future expectations.

Over the long run, however, the people in the Natixis survey anticipate earning an average of 17.5% annually, after inflation—even higher than for this year. That’s up from the 10.9% long-term return they expected in 2019, the previous round of the survey.

It’s also more than twice the return on U.S. stocks since 1926, which has averaged 7.1% annually after inflation.

I asked Wharton Research Data Services, which analyzes business and investing information, to rank all U.S. stocks and exchange-traded funds over the last 10 years.

WRDS counted 3,790 stocks and ETFs that traded continuously over the 10 years that ended May 31, 2021. Only 14% earned total returns that exceeded 17.5% annually. Fully 22% earned negative returns.

In short, investors were more likely to lose money than to compound it by at least 17.5% a year.

It’s the Starting Point Stupid! 

Author Jason Zweig hits the right idea with his final assessment at the end of the article:   

From today’s levels of interest rates and stock prices, I’d be thrilled if stocks returned at least 4% annually over the next decade or two after inflation. I’d also be surprised.

Alice’s Adventures in Equilibrium

With that, let’s take a look at John P. Hussman’s latest assessment in Alice’s Adventures in Equilibrium.

The chart below shows the ratio of nonfinancial market capitalization to corporate gross value-added, including estimated foreign revenues. This is the valuation measure that we find best-correlated with actual subsequent market returns across a century of market cycles, as well as in recent decades.

Nonfinancial Market Capitalization

Presently, we estimate clearly negative average annual total returns for the S&P 500 over the coming 12-year period. The scatter below reflects two of our most reliable valuation measures: nonfinancial market capitalization to corporate gross value-added (including estimated foreign revenues) in data since 1950. I’ve extended the chart back to 1928 by setting valuations in proportion to our margin-adjusted P/E (MAPE) in data prior to 1950. The valuation of the U.S. stock market on June 11, 2021 was easily the highest level in history. [Mish Comment: It’s even higher now.]

Expected 12-Year Annualized Returns

It’s important to recognize that while valuations are extremely informative about prospective market returns on a 10-12 year horizon, and potential market losses over the completion of any market cycle, valuations are not reliable short-term measures. If elevated valuations were enough to drive the market lower, we could never observe the sort of extremes that emerged in 1929, 2000 and today. Over shorter horizons, we have to attend to whether investors are inclined toward speculation or risk-aversion, and we find that this psychology is best gauged by the uniformity or divergence of market internals across thousands of individual stocks, industries, sectors, and security-types, including debt securities of varying creditworthiness.

Widest Difference of Opinion in History

  • People in the Natixis survey anticipate earning an average of 17.5% annually, after inflation.
  • Hussman expects deeply negative returns for a full 12 years, about -5% annually if I interpret the arrow on his chart correctly.

Expectations Gap

I believe this is the widest long-term expectations gap in history but I cannot prove it. 

Regardless, it is immense. 

Not only do investors fail to take current conditions into consideration, they have extrapolated them the wrong way far into the future.

It’s important to note that is how we got here in the first place.

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24 Comments
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ed_retired_actuary
ed_retired_actuary
5 years ago
Hussman’s ~- 5% 12 yr annual US stock nominal return expectation incorporates a number of key assumptions:
a) S&P 500 profit margins return from current unusually high levels to long term average
b) Price / earnings ratios return from current very unusually high levels to long term average
c) Either inflation does not take off, or if it does that stock prices do not rise with increased inflation
The risk to each of these assumptions appears to be on the upside.  I expect that they will be partially but not fully met, for a) due to some persistence of oligopoly market share of many large US corporations (especially in media tech) and b) due to some persistence of low bond yields in competition with stocks.
If none of these assumptions are met at all, long term expected  nominal returns should be about 4% (1.5% dividends + 3.5% nominal GDP growth – 1%  dilution from stock grants to insiders and new enterprise share of GDP), still drastically less than the 15%+ dreams of many individuals, and meaningfully less than the ~7% wishful thinking of the typical US state or municipal defined benefit pension or retiree health care plan.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
5 years ago
Can only happen in a hyperinflationary scenario.
So it’s possible.
QTPie
QTPie
5 years ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
The figure posted was “after inflation”
Blurtman
Blurtman
5 years ago
$100,000 invested at the start of 2016, using the VTSAX annual returns of 12.66%, 21.17%, -5.17%, 30.80% and 20.99% leaves you with a 100% gain at the end of 2020, a doubling of your $100,000.  And if VTSAX dives 30% in 2021, so what, that is still an average annual return of 7.2%
RonJ
RonJ
5 years ago
Klaus Schwab: you will own nothing and be happy. Nothing, would include assets.
Martin Armstrong said some time ago that California wants to take control of residents 401K’s. The California government pension plan is in poor shape. What difference does it make how well ones retirement fund is doing,  if the government is going to confiscate retirement funds “because we’re all in this together.”
The year of jubilee. Kondratieff Winter. The Fourth Turning. The great Reset.
lil_neezy
lil_neezy
5 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
So a state with a $75 billion surplus is going to illegally attempt to take away its citizens 401Ks? That’s a pretty dumb prediction. I wonder on what time frame Martin was predicting this to happen? It sure hasn’t so far.
I hate hyperbolic bullshit that never comes to fruition…it taints discourse, ruins fruitful discussion.
RonJ
RonJ
5 years ago
Reply to  lil_neezy
Armstrong noted that California politicians had spoken to members of congress about it. There is nothing hyperbolic or dumb about it. “Never let a crisis go to waste.” Just look at what has happened in the Covid crisis, alone. It would have been considered hyperbolic two years ago for someone to say that the economy would ever be shut down and healthy people would be forced to wear masks that don’t work against airborne viruses. But here we are.
Recently, it was mentioned that some 8 billion dollars of tax revenue had left the state, along with 6 billion that has left Illinois, a state California is working to emulate.
In California, a 75 billion dollar surplus can be easily squandered with Democrats entirely in charge of the government. Then what?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
5 years ago
Mish, I am very suspicious of looking back at the market prior to 73 and correlating it to todays market.  The reason should be obvious. Prior to 73, the US more or less had a fixed money supply due to the gold standard.
After 73, with money supply no longer constrained it has rapidly increased. As you know, that money has to be ‘somewhere’ at all times. It hasn’t been in bank accounts or savings bonds for a long time (decades). So it’s been in some sort of hard assets (stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals etc). If you expand the money supply by 17% in a year it’s not unreasonable to expect stocks to increase by 17%. The M2 money supply has doubled since 2012 so stocks doubling in that time frame makes sense.
Of course that doubling doesn’t really make you wealthier, it just means you’ve kept up with money printing / inflation.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
5 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Excellent point.
RonJ
RonJ
5 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
In 1972, there was the Nifty Fifty. The fifty hot stocks “that everyone had to own and couldn’t go down.”
Famous last words. With no more gold standard, 1973-74 saw a major bear market that mauled the Nifty Fifty.
The Dow had stalled out under the gold standard in 1966, near 1,000 points and wasn’t able to get above 1,000 for good, until after the 1982 low, over 10 years after Nixon closed the gold window.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
5 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
 Taking that idea further, one might consider what would potentially happen to stocks if the Fed and the Treasury shift from their current policy of fiscal-monetary coordination….to full MMT, which seems like the end game. 
It’s academic to me. I don’t want to play in their rigged game, other than to occasionally trade when it looks like the timing is right.
Kudos to Realist for his call on the oil companies. That’s the way to take advantage of markets. 
One of Marin Katusa’s more interesting predictions is that the major oil producers will be bought out by the new generation of sustainable energy producers. I expect he’s right, although that’s probably still a decade or more away. Money will be made by people who can see the the future and position for it.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
5 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
The smaller companies (like Chesapeake Energy) will definitely be bought out as Shale is going bust now. The oil services sector (where my company is) will consolidate. Not sure the really big ones (Exxon/BP etc) are going anywhere or being bought out because they are SO large.
If your into Oil plays a small Canadian company (ReconAfrica) believes they’ve made a massive strike in Namibia and they have the drilling rights to a very large area of land so if true, their stock could be worth a lot going forward (next few years, not months).  Easy to google articles on this and figure out if you are interested. I’m following things because it’s my industry and so may take a position.
njbr
njbr
5 years ago
We have access to more information than any other people ever, but still
In a world filled with faith in the absence of evidence, so it goes…
As in the Ivermectin wars….
….In comparison to SOC or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, length of stay or viral clearance in RCTs in COVID-19 patients with mostly mild disease. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or severe AEs. IVM is not a viable option to treat COVID-19 patients….
Ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials
RonJ
RonJ
5 years ago
Reply to  njbr
58 studies/trials say the exact opposite.
The discoverer of Ivermectin says the odds f the 58 studies/trials being false is 4 trillion to one against.
Ivermectin works against Covid. That is why the FDA refused to review the data.
kram
kram
5 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Unless the placebo effect crashed India’s wave 2 faster than it went up, Ivermectin must’ve saved literally millions of lives in that country, since at the peak on 10th May India was adding over 400k cases a day (and their data collection was very shaky during those panicky days) and experts were actually predicting over 1 million cases per day by end of May. Today, its around 40k cases a day.
The FDA may say what it likes – and everyone in the world knows that almost EVERY US regulatory body is in the pay of corporates; no one is fooled. Ultimately the rest of the world is starting to move ahead and leaving the US behind as they adopt what works and not what is put out by the completely corrupted pharma/medical/regulatory setup there.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
5 years ago
Reply to  njbr
The devil is in the details, always. Information is great, but you have to learn to read critically to really sort things out.
Here is the methodology of the meta study you googled.
“Ten RCTs (n=1173) were included. Controls were standard of care [SOC] in five RCTs and placebo in five RCTs. COVID-19 disease severity was mild in 8 RCTs, moderate in one RCT, and mild and moderate in one RCT.”
What that means is that this meta study cherry picked studies in which the patients weren’t actually very sick in the first place. 
The clinician meta study findings, also peer reviewed and published in the last couple weeks in AJT are profoundly different. It was a much larger study, n=2438. It reported:
“Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.”
John Campbell, one of the real heroes of the pandemic imho, takes you through it step by step here, and fills out some background and gives a look into what’s still ahead.
Steve_R
Steve_R
5 years ago
1. Interest rates are the key, aka the Fed, if we were at 5% where would this market it be.
2. First year president is usually bullish
3. All stocks are not bullish, small caps have gone up a little since the beginning of the year
4. More money has been printed this last year then anytime in US history. Bullish crypto
5. Valuation means nothing until interest rates move or at least a taper by Fed
6. We could drop 100 points on the S&P and still be bullish, we are over bought
QTPie
QTPie
5 years ago
Long term returns of 17.5% with the CAPE ratio at almost 40? Time to put down that bong folks.
Scooot
Scooot
5 years ago
“Past Performance is no guarantee of Future Returns” is stated on nearly every investment related document. It seems a lot of financial professionals are ignoring their own warnings.
If my fund manager loses a large proportion of my wealth when it all goes wrong, should I sue for ignoring this warning, and if I did should I win. After all, by giving my money to paid professionals to look after I’m expressing no view, and they should heed their own warnings. How could they defend “a this time it’s different” viewpoint? 
anoop
anoop
5 years ago
TINA FOMO YOLO BTFD DNFTF
(the last one is do not fight the fed)
goldguy
goldguy
5 years ago
Smells like a top to me
Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
5 years ago
This happens every 10 years like clockwork. In the late 80s it was a 25% drop in the Dow. In 2000, all indices dropped like a rock from peak to the trough of the early 2000s. 2007-2009 it happen again. Today’s market is propped up with electronic money but the music will slow down or stop sooner than later. Unless of the course the Fed continues to bail out insurers and pension funds and forcing money into stocks and real estate. Valuations are no longer following historical trendlines so its anyone’s guess what will happen. 
Alan
Alan
5 years ago
Pretty amazing that investors could become so complacent with 10%+ annual returns that they expect them to increase in perpetuity.  Recency bias plays strong into the minds of people.
numike
numike
5 years ago
Conditions are ripe for repeat of 1970s stagflation and 2008 debt crisis

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