Are You an Economic Optimist or a Pessimist?

I took a quiz to find out. You can too.

WSJ Poll

Here’s a free link to the WSJ Economy Stress Poll.

More than 60% of Americans are comfortable with how things are going in their financial lives, our recent Wall Street Journal-NORC poll found. They are satisfied with their present financial situation, confident that they can manage their expenses or offer other indicators of well-being.

But the survey also revealed significant pessimism about the future of the U.S. economy. More than three-quarters think hard work isn’t rewarded as it once was, or lack confidence that their children’s generation will have as good a life as they have had.

Four Quadrants

  • Comfortable Optimist (upper left)
  • Comfortable Pessimist (upper right)
  • Stressed Optimist (lower left)
  • Stressed Pessimist (lower right)

Somehow I landed in the super-optimist 5 percent upper left quadrant.

That hardly describes me.

This was my response to the WSJ.

Your poll is flawed. I don’t need a job and rate the question as N/A. The closest was “Dont Know” which you assigned as stressed. I am as far from stressed as possible.

Also, my parents are dead. So taking care of them is also N/A. Again, you marked this as stress.

I purposely left those blank, but to see my score had to enter something.

But none of this has to do with being an optimist or pessimist “on the economy”.

The poll conflates “economy” with “personal comfort level”

I am a huge pessimist on the economy but have no personal concerns.

Attempting Too Much with Insufficient Questions

The poll tries to do two things at once: measure personal views and overall views with not enough questions.

Questions that should have an N/A response, don’t. And N/A should be “Not Stressed”.

Take the question on taking care of parents. I am stress-free because my parents are dead.

Yet, I think the economy really sucks for the median person. For me, personally, I am in the upper left. Regarding how I feel about the median Zoomer or Millennial, that is bottom right.

Regarding the median Boomer my guess is towards the middle somewhere, depending on concerns over aging parents (are they alive), and needing but not having more than Social Security.

It’s hard to get multiple answers out of one question. The Journal did try to split some of this, but not very well, and is missing N/A responses.

I would not at all translate my answers to some sort of average upper left 5 percent. It’s not that simple.

I am not at all stressed over anything. The economy sucks for the median zoomer, but my stress is none. These are two different things.

Related Posts

November 7, 2025: Revelio’s Realistic Assessment of the US Labor Market and Jobs – Sinking Fast

Kudos to Revelio for providing an excellent set of jobs-related data.

November 10, 2025: Consumer Sentiment Drops Again, Current Conditions Hit New Record Low

What’s the matter with these people? Trump says the economy is humming.

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MelvinRich
MelvinRich
3 days ago

I’m 80 and don’t think things have changed much over time. In the short run things may look good but over the long-term things are tough for many. When I was young, it was quite a rough going for me. It was a lot tougher than today’s whining young people with the draft, unemployment and poverty. However, my dad had it far worse than I did with the depression, WW2 and lack of opportunity. There are always economic problems, if not now, in the future. Stay healthy and save money and things will work out!

anoop
anoop
3 days ago

After many years of reading blogs and watching youtube videos I have discovered that the correct thing to do is to tune everything out and put 50% in risk assets (could be any mix of index funds, gold, real-estate) and 50% in money market funds. There is no point in trying to “figure things out” because the system is broken and manipulated. The only way you come out a winner in this system is by being on the inside. Since we’re not on the inside (otherwise we wouldn’t be here writing or reading a blog like this), the best we can hope for is to maintain the purchasing power of your savings.

steve
steve
4 days ago

The optimist runs into many disappointments.
The pessimist is sometimes delightfully surprised.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
4 days ago

There are optimists, pessimists, and realists. Frankly, I’d put Mish in the realistic category. At the very least, he offers critical/thoughtful commentary more often than most readers here.

We are all the product of information systems intent on influencing our opinions. Simply, you are target marketed to by mass media to exploit your confirmation bias. Recognizing that you’re as biased as the next person is the key to understanding.

Realists differentiate between what they think (a matter of opinion), and what they know (which is actually very little). For example, I think Trump is a fundamentally flawed president, largely the result of his ego primarily. However, I do not truly know, the Gettier Problem notwithstanding: ‘one’s belief of what will happen can be correct without one having actual knowledge to base it on.’

Kwags
Kwags
4 days ago

I consider you to be a perma-bear, but maybe I’m projecting my own feelings. I think the economy is a house of cards because it’s built on phony money and credit. Bill Bonner wrote a book called Empire of Debt, and that’s how I think of the US economy. We’re like a mansion that’s still underwater on the mortgage.

phleep
phleep
3 days ago
Reply to  Kwags

I constantly gorge on history to ask and answer, what is a good baseline of comparison, if any? It could be many things. For example, it could be the average life experience of all humans until now. I think we are living in sweet plenty and luxury next to vast swaths of the history I review. The 20th century is a great example of planet-wide mega-fatal violence and suffering, for example. I have never for a moment been as bad off as, say, people I knew who were under the mass-industrial-scale bombings.

JohnF
JohnF
4 days ago

Everyone Is A ‘Gullible/Deceived’ Product of the – ‘Dumbed Down Educational System’ – ‘Fallin Away Church’ – Boob Tube ‘Operation Mockingbird’ TV Programming.!

Hard to Break Out of Decades of Programming – Most Don’t Want To.!

“We’ll Know Our ‘Disinformation Program’ Is Complete When Everything The American Public Believes Is ‘False’.”
William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

“We Lied, We Cheated, We Stole – We Had Entire Training Courses.” Mike Pompeo, CIA Director 2017-2018

George Carlin On How Language Is Distorted:

“The CIA Doesn’t Ki!! Anybody Anymore – They Neutralise People”

“The Government Doesn’t Lie – It Engages In Misinformation.”

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
4 days ago

I am pessimistic for the following reasons:

Not that much has changed wrt American business over the past few days but the market has gyrated up and down based on federal reserve expectations of rate fixing up or down. This suggest that the value of the measuring tool has more to do with share price than actual company performance.

Forcing interest rates down and deficit spending is now detrimental to the economy. Fiscal year 2024 had roughly $1.8 trillion deficit spending all of which contributed to GDP as government contribution for $1.4 trillion gain in GDP.

No country in history destroying the value of their currency has flourished.

Devaluing the dollar is a gimmick that does nothing to eliminate the debt. Spending more than revenue is deficit spending that increases debt, even if the dollars have less value, simple math. We have lowered the dollar’s value for two generations and we have steadily and rapidly increased the debt burden.

Increasing deficit spending is now about 6% of GDP that is not expected to grow at anywhere near that pace, and forecasts of a downturn are errantly few and far between. When we get a downturn, revenue will decrease and safety net spending will increase stressing the economy even more.

The fed can only control rates until the buyers of our debt demand compensation for their purchasing power loss, then rates go up and federal government has a problem paying interest. That is market forces at work.

There are many more issues like returning money directly to citizens that is a guaranteed loser if for no other reason than the brokerage fee collecting and redistributing the money, misguided tariff policy, ridiculous desires for increased military spending are examples

Timing for the above situations is not far off. Congress needs to get patriotic make the hard choices to cut spending below revenue. There is no other fix, just political, accounting, and economic gimmicks that will not work

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
4 days ago
Reply to  Dave Smith

Telling Congress to make hard choices is like telling someone to be smarter–it usually doesn’t work.

David Heartland
David Heartland
4 days ago

Here in the Algarve Region (Southern area) of Portugal, there are new atrocious Box-Like Luxury Villas popping up everywhere. BILLIONS have poured in here since 2015. New Toll roads were built, squeezing locals with ridiculously high tolls. THEIR money paid for it. Working Contruction guys are doing well. Service workers barely can pay rent. There is a true Bifurcation as it is in the USA. We are wintering here. We love these people. They continue to be optimistic but I know that it is a struggle to afford those rents. I do tip well. I do not know what else I can do but there is something needed big here to help the Common Portuguese young people. They ARE having kids. We see them all over. Just beautiful people, these Portuguese and they always have been!

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
4 days ago

Did it ever occur to you (as you rant about struggles around the world) that maybe the Portuguese service workers you reference may have a hard time paying for affordable rent because rich Americans like you are using the Portuguese housing for their extended vacation trips?

Webej
Webej
4 days ago

Mish, your distinction between your personal situation and the views you hold of the whole already places you into a very small minority of the population (outside the quad) for who these two things do not amount to the same thing.

Last edited 4 days ago by Webej
David Heartland
David Heartland
4 days ago

I am stressed that very poor people will pull a French Revolution type of thing and I would not Blame them. For that reason, I no longer drive Luxury Cars, or own a McMansion, all of which marked my working years as a Business Owner. Sure the Mercedes and Infinity Luxury cars were different but I only need to drive short distances now. We also WALK in a small Village here in Portugal to see friends who also walk here.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago

A lower profile can be a huge benefit if/when social unrest makes wealth or beauty a target. I have one old fallow farm that is virtually off the grid (excepting a buried power line) and a two track that leads into it. Easily defended and self supporting with a spring and hidden, small cave system. I only go there in my old pickup occasionally, and few know it exists and no one bothers it. The occasional hunter wanders into the view one of the game cameras, but that has only happened twice in five years. In winter my footprints are the only ones I have ever seen.

The hardwoods grow slowly in this place forgotten and time stands still in the old farmhouse. It remains complete with wood burner, propane cooking stove in addition to the old analog fuel oil furnace. I’ll run the fuel down this winter so I can put fresh in when fall of next year comes…

MPO45 would approve!

Best of all, I got it in a tax sale back in 2011.

mikeness
mikeness
4 days ago

Pragmatist, and that tells me over the last nearly 100 years we have expanded the federal government by an unholy amount and since FDR and officially finally Nixon in 1971 we live in a fiat world. All of that to say that this is an equation that eventually breaks. We are nothing more than the sum of the opinions of other countries towards our currency and the economy behind it. That is worked well so far, but when it comes to perception of others that is not something that tends to trend in the positive forever.

The Window Cleaner
The Window Cleaner
4 days ago

No matter the statistics or opinions of anyone, the economy will continue to become increasingly unstable with the current monopoly paradigm for the creation and distribution of all new money which is Debt ONLY…unless we integrate the new paradigm of Strategic Monetary Gifting into the Debt Only system…because the current paradigm is the key/core economic problem and new paradigms historically result in enlightening thirdnesses greater onenesses, in other words solutions to seemingly unresolvable dualities/problems/orthodoxies.

Ask yourself: What is the most basic answer to everyone’s economic lack of security? Answer: More purchasing power. What is the answer to inflation? Answer: Price and asset DEFLATION for the consumer where merchants still get their full price.

The 50% Discount/Rebate policy at retail sale creates both of those resolving realities…FOR EVERYONE and EVEN INTEGRATES THE SELF INTERESTS OF TRADITIONALLY OPPOSED ECONOMIC AGENTS. And the entire policy program of the new paradigm shores up the various other stupidities and unethical tendencies that have plagued economics since day one.

dave barnes
dave barnes
4 days ago

Optimist.
And “Optimism is associated with exceptional longevity in 2 epidemiologic cohorts of men and women”—a short paper by Lewina O. Lee, et.el.

klaus
klaus
4 days ago

Im an optimistic retiree. Im retired 25 yrs now. Ive learned to not sweat the small stuff. My metals are up. Bitcoin down. So what.

We have food in the stores, be grateful. Then humble.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
4 days ago
Reply to  klaus

You hit the sweet spot on the timeline… congrats!

JohnF
JohnF
4 days ago
Reply to  klaus

“My metals are up” – Way Up – Signaling A Complete Collapse Of The Global Monetary System.

No Audit Of Ft Knox Gold Reserves Yet.!

Lock Her Up (2016) – NO ONE At The Top
Gone To Jail/Prison Yet!

David Heartland
David Heartland
4 days ago
Reply to  klaus

Klaus, I retired in 1992 at a young age because WE COULD and wanted out of the Silicon Valley rat race. I sold my Business to another Company (took our shares, I got the lion’s share) and we just sold the big house and WHAM: got the Fuck out!

Lefteris
Lefteris
4 days ago

Currently a pessimist, because technological advances are moving a lot faster than our capacity to adjust. In the past, we would try to make the carriage faster. Now the carriage is moving too fast to catch it.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
4 days ago
Reply to  Lefteris

… and tomorrow the carriage will be hunting us through the woods.

Lefteris
Lefteris
4 days ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

If Hollywood were smart, that’d be the next blockbuster.

Jon
Jon
4 days ago
Reply to  Lefteris

Remember Terminator?

JohnF
JohnF
4 days ago
Reply to  Lefteris

HollyWierd Made Thousands Of Thriller – Horror – Apocolypse Movies For What’s Coming.!

Just Like The World Powers Have Thousands Of Missile Stockpiles + D.U.M.B.’s – For The Same Event – Project Blue Beam = Harvesters/Reapers.!

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago

I started my life with nothing and blue collar parents. I work smart, efficiently and hard. I show up every day. Therefore, I end up in that far upper left quadrant.

“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity”.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
4 days ago
Reply to  Frosty

“I started my life with nothing and blue collar parents”

If you started life with parents, you started with everything. I’m also certain your creator above has carried you a great deal.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Blue collar ones are pretty far up on the global parent scale.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

Actually, by having blue collar parents I had to work early to be able to have a car, insurance and money for dating, pursuing sports and higher education. I competed with ultra rich kids and it made me strong and resourceful. I can fix almost anything and build my own house from scratch… Curiosity is one of the greatest skills my parents gave me.

I’m thankful for them every day!

David Heartland
David Heartland
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

I started life with parents because I am human but my parents were both nuts. It made me stronger and more independent and I fled home in a 1962 Chevy Impala SS that I bought at 15 1/2. I never told them I was leaving. MOVED WEST just prior to the explosion of money and tech in the San Jose, CA area. I lived in Atherton. Also, Hillsborough. GOT THE FUCK OUT. It was awful being there.

Siliconguy
Siliconguy
4 days ago

Personally I’m very unstressed. Locally things are slowing down but this is an agricultural area at the start of winter, so a slowdown is completely normal.

On a larger scale the State of Washington has failed to learn from the mistakes of others and is doubling down on higher taxes for woke purposes. There is where my concern lies.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  Siliconguy

I’m a farmer as well, but in the midwest, I worry about all of our social spending including bailing farmers out SNAP for anyone and insane military spending.

Think of the civilization and wealth we could build if we invested in ourselves and education instead of overseas military insanity!

Barbara Rockefeller
Barbara Rockefeller
4 days ago

You are completely correct about the need for N/A responses. I tend to give up halfway through surveys (from The Economist, FT, et al.) for that reason. Hope you are making enough of a stink.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
4 days ago

“Are You an Economic Optimist or a Pessimist?”

That’s an incomplete question because it obviously depends on your frame of reference.

I am highly optimistic about my economic future in Asia, every time I travel there I see skyscraper cranes putting up new buildings. I see rail being built to ferry people back and forth, I see malls full of shoppers.

I am highly pessimistic about the economic future for my fellow Americans. I see the opposite of what I see in Asia, empty malls, dilapidated structures, few cranes, antiquated rail, etc.

And finally when a cabinet head like the Treasury Secretary goes online and says there won’t be a recession, it almost assuredly guarantees there will be a recession.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/23/bessent-economy-no-recession-2026.html

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said the U.S. was not at risk of entering a recession in 2026 and that Americans would soon benefit from President Donald Trump’s policies.

Sentient
Sentient
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Soros Scotty is a terrible Treasury Secretary

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
4 days ago
Reply to  Sentient

He’s a DEI hire.

limey
limey
3 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

A chutney ferret i’m led to believe.

Avery2
Avery2
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

If you think that’s bad many of the empty malls were once drive-in theaters.

Flavia
Flavia
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Your main concern in Asia will be air quality.

you name it
you name it
4 days ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

> I am highly pessimistic about the economic future for my fellow Americans

Wait until realization that at least 30% of the West’s population will prematurely die thanks to the great gene injection “Warp Speed” campaign hits the markets. The deflationary effect will be gigantic. Including metals.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
4 days ago

typo: That hardly subscribes me. / describes

Poll link was paywalled for me just now (loaded link twice)

Felix
Felix
4 days ago

Poll me about the general state of the US economy. Oops, like everyone else, all I know is the most recent video I’ve seen. So let’s go with that. Except mix that with a simple extrapolation from me to a mere 330,000,000 other people.

Yeah, this poll fills media dead air. More dead air? Replay a quote from someone at the Fed. That’ll be as useful and informative.

Tom Bergerson
Tom Bergerson
4 days ago

Very funny. We are on the cusp of a sovereign debt crisis. These things play out over years or even decades, but never have they turned out well for large economies who fall into them to my knowledge

The capital markets are utterly broken. We have index funds which push what Michael Green calls the mindless robot. Add to that the governments of the world pushing 10 trillion dollars into the real economy and blowing everything up.

Plus corporate buybacks, still ongoing at record pace despite the increase in interest rates, so swapping debt for equity is no longer nearly free.

We have total censorship now everywhere that matters, except temporarily in the US (with one dangerous exception I wont go into here). Censorship means the death of democracy as I have written about in my substack

In Europe they do not allow free elections any longer

You have the Tech Bros taking over the world and imposing total surveillance. Their :philosopher” is Curtis Yarvin, who argues Democracy is worthless and suggests something more akin to monarchy is better. Certainly the current oligarchy is no sustainable. And to some extent he is right. Our education system is broken and the populace is utterly ignorant so Democracy does not work very well. Justice Sandra Day O’Connor once said to have a successful Republic you must have the populace above a certain threshold of knowledge and mental capability. Clearly we have fallen well below that threshold

Finally the ACTUAL threat to mankind is the current polar excursion that threatens to become a polar magnetic pole reversal and the vastly dropping magnetic field of earth that accompanies it. Currently about 30% below the strength it had 150 years ago. If we get a solar energy spew of X50 or greater (like the Carrington event in 1859) or even X1000 (Miyake events the last of which I believe occurred around 10-12,000 years ago), the electrical grid will go down. We could harden the grid for less than half the fifth of a TRILLION dollars we burned supporting Ukraine. And we could prepare for a reserve of transformers so it does not take 2 years to replace them after they are destroyed. If we have 2 years without electricity, at least 70% of people will die of starvation

That may be what the Club of Rome types would like to see.

So yeah I am VERY pessimistic over the next 5 and 20 years. Then we will have a renewal. Who knows what that will look like

Steven Kurtz
Steven Kurtz
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

While we agree on a lot re debt risk, oligarchy, dumbing down (biological & dependence on tech), geophysical risk, MMT justifying printing fiat, free speech…I take exception to panning The Club of Rome (limits to growth) endeavors. We’re in biological plague phase having increased 800% in 2C, and quadrupling in the lifespan of some living people. The easiest resources are harvested first, and mining, fishing, etc is scraping the bottom of the barrel, while nature is being smotherdby our waste. This is slow suicide.

Free will is vastly overrated, with some scientists and philosophers judging it a fallacy. (definitions matter) We cannot escape embodied heredity and the cumulative impacts of experiences since conception. Note that ideas, memories, perceptions, feelings, actions…are all physical(energy-matter-information) as far as science can tell. If evidence for anything not physical (or dependent upon it) is presented, a Nobel Prize await!

Human exceptionalism seems limited to complex language and reflexive self-consciousness. We are social mammals, and hierarchy is built in. The tribe is the responsible unit (pack, flock, etc. too). Feedback to TPTB gets diluted when numbers grow. Dunbar’s number is 150 for a community capable of that working.

Tom Bergerson
Tom Bergerson
4 days ago
Reply to  Steven Kurtz

The idea that large numbers mess up the feedback loop is an interesting one. And the way it works does have such a limit for real community at some low number. But that just means that above such numbers, and this will always be the case unless you favor genocide, it just works differently. Public opinion is a key driver. And that is why censorship is utterly verboten if you want to have a democratic Republican, ie liberty.

And I am sorry but the malthusian ideas are just rubbish. There is no limit on almost anything we need. Energy certainly not, watch Doomberg. Food is the other important item, but the earth can probably support more like 5 times the current population without missing a beat.

There are certain chemicals that are worrisome, I cant even recall which, maybe potassium or some others. I would guess though that human ingenuity could solve the problem

So in my opinion Club of Rome supporters are anti-human, and thus evil incarnate

And I do not use the word evil lightly. I purposely never used it until the last 5 years when everything changed. I also wrote about that on my substack.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

Great conversation! I see hints of The Fourth Turning in both of your thinking and have recognized some traits of that indicated cycling of generations.

Our civilization is uniquely poised to control its future having accumulated significant knowledge and the capacity to direct its usefulness for our populations.

With the “Big Brother” of AI looking over everyones shoulder at all times, algorithms will likely select the best and brightest to congregate together.

The debt crisis will be solved by default and a reset. Hard asset owners and producers will thrive after some forced austerity. These cycles happen and it is best to study history to position yourself on the side of the social equation that has quickest access to funds after a crash if you think a crash is imminent.

Personally I do not think we are going to crash because of our debt or loose dollar dominance within the next 50 years. SWIFT and the strength of our banking system is tremendous.

Got a little Gold and some mining stocks?

(As and aside. The December 2025 gold futures/options expiry is tomorrow ~ the 24th of November. Settlement over the next two daze… This contract has been trading since 2020 and is deeply in the money. December and June are the heavy physical delivery months so we can watch for some significant price action).

Wash, Rinse, Repeat!

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  Frosty

When I say crash ~ I mean significant social disruption and violence…

The AI bubble bursting is a different thing. where millions lose their livelihood and homes. The well positioned make another killing.

Working smarter and harder is everything!

>>>

Steven Kurtz
Steven Kurtz
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

Pollinators are just one weak link. Falling aquifers another. I suggest that you will regret your current position if you’re alive mid-century. And peak fossil fuels? What will do the deep mining and smelting? Care to make a charitable wager on longbets.org? (part of The Long Now Fdn. started by Kevin Kelley (Wired Mag) & Stewart Brand (Whole Earth Catalog – ’60-’70s I think) Only $US 200. my alt. e-addr kurtzsb – at – yahoo – dot ca Any who grasp system dynamics are free to contact me. I quit derivatives trading ’90 at 45. Do P/T pro bono work on biophysical economics and related sustainability issues.

Last edited 4 days ago by Steven Kurtz
Webej
Webej
4 days ago
Reply to  Steven Kurtz

Free will is vastly overrated

How do you make decisions then?
Do you sit back and let causality run its course?
Have you told your wife that you didn’t really decide, but certain physical and social processes have led from the past to the present?

Jon
Jon
4 days ago
Reply to  Webej

Under what circumstance in your life, knowing what you knew at that moment, would you have made a different choice? Free will assumes you have the desire to make choices that you think are sub-optimal. I think that is impossible. You have only one choice: the one you think is optimal. And that is based upon your knowledge at that moment in time.

Steven Kurtz
Steven Kurtz
4 days ago
Reply to  Webej

Every life form makes decisions, although not all are conscious. See Robert Sapolsky, Galen Strawson, Gregg Caruso. We are held responsible by others, but inescapable embodied baggage steers us. No disembodied mind!

bob
bob
4 days ago
Reply to  Webej

I plan, god laughs. So I float down the wide river of life in my square raft with the one oar and try not to drown or hit the shore too hard whenever I manage to bump up against it

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

Yeah, but like, dude, the Northern Lights will be really trippy! sarc/

But seriously, hardening our grid for a X1000 solar flare? Thats a bit extreme. The pole reversal is long overdue and well documented in the Mohorovičić discontinuity.

Interestingly, there is not a corresponding fossil record of massive disruption to life that corresponds with polar flips. Personally I would like to be her when it happens.

Carry on!

😉

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  Frosty

here, I would like to be here when it happens. No trans stuff for me 😉

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

I’m having a hard time disagreeing with their argument about democracy, seeing what it has yielded in the last 10 years. Democracy only works if the majority of your population isn’t fucking stupid.

Ultimately, democracy is a refinement of force. “There are more of us than there are of you, so just do what we want or we’ll kick your ass.“

Technology broke that down though. It’s not one man one vote. It’s one man with the biggest gun he can lay his hands on.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

+100

“Democracy only works if the majority of your population isn’t fucking stupid”

Webej
Webej
4 days ago
Reply to  Tom Bergerson

What is democracy?

  • For the Greeks (from who we say we inherited it), it was a term of disdain. The demos were the rabble, the mob the American founding fathers also feared.
  • Only recently has there been a universal franchise. Before then only property owners had a vote. Women’s access to the ballot followed surprisingly quickly upon general ballot access for men.
  • In Athens, delegates to the council were chosen on the basis of demography (various regions/tribes) and at random — they had a primitive random selection device (kleroterion); people feared being elected. The reasoning was immaculate: the last people you want as rulers are the ones that seek office and power.
  • The enlightenment idea of democracy was based on reason. The conviction was that rational public debate would as a rule produce the best policy decisions. Our world of reified parties and competing interest lobbies is the opposite of the ideal that it is reason that will hold sway. Obviously secret government agencies spell the end of reasoned public debate, as does the media fueled frenzied polarization.
  • Elections are intended to select the best, but the best in fact means what previous cultures called aristocracy. The current system, fueled by paid media feedback loops, boils down to a merger of oligopoly & kakocracy.

In other words, any appeal to an empty slogan such as ‘democracy’ requires one to elaborate exactly what type of rule one is advocating.

JeffD
JeffD
4 days ago

The pdf published by NORC in this WSJ-NORC poll gets at your concerns:

https://www.norc.org/content/dam/norc-org/pdf2025/WSJ_NORC_Jul2025_Topline.pdf

For example, for the question “Economic growth doesn’t benefit everyone equally”, 54% of the sample population is very concerned and 26% are somewhat concerned. Those are very high percentages.

Steven Kurtz
Steven Kurtz
4 days ago

I won’t bother taking such a flawed ‘test.’ Re personal economics, I’m generally with you. Unless top rated states (I’m in one) default on their bonds, tax free income from them is ok. The bits of stress I have are from the likely end of $US supremacy, and the loss of its buying power. I’m long retired and conservative with investments, with around 33% of portfolio in non-$US 1-3 yr sovereign debt via BWZ (ETF). Also have Sprott Physical G&S in CEF. (ETF) I’m pessimistic about the bottlenecks coming in natural resources including energy, potable water, biodiversity/monocultures, healthy topsoil, and increasing toxicity of air/water/soil/food chain. Our grandchildren look to have a tough time, and technology can’t cure our excess impacts from our quadrupling in 1C and leverage from our ‘successes’ in converting natural wealth to consumption and pollution.

eighthman
eighthman
4 days ago

Pessimist or optimist about who or what?

I am optimistic about Russia, China and the BRICS and pessimistic about the US and even more pessimistic about the EU.

My greatest fear is NOT Trump. My biggest fear is the political tsunami that will follow him. Democrats will be swept in the next cycle and offer nothing but stagnation triggered by emotionalism and tiresome excuses that favor their clients. Racism, racism, sexism, DEI, and almost no accountability. Republican ineptitude will be replaced by even greater incompetence because most voters have given up and so elections are decided by minority fruitcakes ( NYC, Seattle).

Meanwhile, Russia and China will forge ahead with harsh internal governance that severely punishes failure. The US is like a heavy spinning flywheel. You hardly notice that it’s slowing down towards a stop. It just takes a while.

Frosty
Frosty
4 days ago
Reply to  eighthman

You should get out more! Just because you see that on your TV or in your news silo, that does not mean it is true. America is alive and well with a tremendous standard of living and a vibrant economy.  Our poor are wealthy compared with most of the worlds population!

Regarding optimism… The current administration has no clue about how to run an economy, and is accumulating exponentially more debt. Stopping the export of dollars offshore that helped to finance our debt is beyond ignorant… Tariffs clearly were not the answer as the basic math does not close.

The survey shows that there are stressed people trying to live beyond their means more than “can they feed their families” IMO.

The average Russian or Chinese person would love to have the opportunities we take for granted!

Ed Homonym
Ed Homonym
4 days ago
Reply to  Frosty

The bottom half of USA laborers earn less than in 1970.

Fed figures, using BLS inflation lies, say it’s the same.

Neil
Neil
4 days ago
Reply to  eighthman

the USA is incredibly wealthy, but perhaps it isn’t always as clear to the americans how well off they are materially (on average of course). And while there is certainly a lot to complain about, you bet it’s far worse in Russia and China with levels of corruption you couldn’t even imagine, even not with Trump pushing the envelope in the USA.

The idea that the democrats will make it worse is interesting and they are certainly unpleasant in fields like DEI. But their economic track record is certainly not worse than that of Republicans if you take the 35 years or so.

Lefteris
Lefteris
4 days ago
Reply to  eighthman

Looks fine for a movie, but let’s slow down in the assumptions. Things in China don’t happen as fast as advertised, even the population estimates are false, much of the country is still third world with terrible hygiene and water quality. Recently it was revealed that their Airbus 320 (or 319) alternative was an exact copy of the older European model. Before that revelation, the articles were like “they surpassed us”. As usual.
And Russia is a dying society with abysmal birth rate, an ongoing terrible war etc.
Severely punishing failure” is a recipe for disaster in every society or business or tech. It makes people scared to try.
The US is like a heavy spinning flywheel.” I agree.
—————————
Americans have most advantages (theoretically) but nobody’s telling them that, so while technology is moving so fast it destroys human contact and jobs, we also have an additional dark cloud of perception on top of us.

Avery2
Avery2
4 days ago

Isn’t the narrative over the past couple of generations, “as long as the stock market is going up then life is just a bowl of cherries”?

Ed Homonym
Ed Homonym
4 days ago

I presume the point of the “quiz” is like much polling: to shape opinion as much or more than to assess it.

Maybe as simple as encouraging better-off people to dismiss complaints of “pessimists”.

Last edited 4 days ago by Ed Homonym

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