Are You Overpaying for Stocks?

Lance Roberts, Chief Strategist at RIA Advisors has the “Tweet of the Day” 

Too Fast, Too Furious

Buy the Unknown the Unwanted, the Unloved

Small Cap Valuations Through the Roof

Agree with Bianco on that.

Marijuana Legalization Coming?

My answer: Yes, if Biden wins, and perhaps anyway.

China-US Trade Souring

Reflections on Liquidity

Pent-Up Spending Coming

For how long no one knows, and that is what matters. 

I suspect something like a W- or square-root-shaped recovery with weak uptrends following that deep second-quarter decline.

Grim Economic Data

  1. May 8: Over 20 Million Jobs Lost As Unemployment Rises Most In History
  2. May 15: Retail Sales Plunge Way More Than Expected
  3. May 15: Industrial Production Declines Most in 101 Years
  4. May 30: GDPNow Forecast is Negative 51.2 Percent
  5. June 3: Bad Economic Reports? Yes, But They Were Supposed to Be Bad

Ripple Impacts

For a detailed synopsis of the state of the economy and the ripple impacts, please see The Economy Will Not Soon Return to Normal: Here’s Why.

Global COVID-19 Risk Ranges Up to $82 Trillion

To understand the total global risk, please see Global COVID-19 Risk Ranges Up to $82 Trillion

GDP Projections Before and After Covid-19

I added that red line and expect a shape something like that. 

Why?

In addition to depleted savings and an expected huge change in attitudes on risk, presidents prefer to have a recession or weakness in the first two years of their term, not their 4th year.

The US is in recession now. After a weak rebound, it is not at all far-fetched to believe there could be another shorter double-dip coming.

Regardless, I believe the CBO projections in the above chart are optimistic for the reasons stated. 

For discussion, please see CBO Estimates it will Take 10 Years Just to Get Back to Even.

Mish

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Jdog1
Jdog1
3 years ago

The liberal protesters and their violent wing Antifa are ensuring that we will have both another Covid-19 outbreak, and another wave of business bankruptcies and unemployment. The liberals are willing to do anything to attack Trump, including ruining the country and the economy. They will be held accountable.

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago

“The US is in recession now. After a weak rebound, it is not at all far-fetched to believe there could be another shorter double-dip coming.”

Shorter?

Don’t know about that. If anything “shorter”, it will be the rebound. Put me down for a long hard slog … with NIRP.

Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago

According to an article I’ve just read in Zero Hedge, there’s been a lot of new equity sales hitting the markets. In May the 3 month average tripled to $94 billion. These corporations are therefore very attracted by current prices and PE’s so I guess new stock will continue to hit the markets.

Stuki
Stuki
3 years ago

Whether or not anyone is overpaying, depends crucially on how close they are to the Fed and government. Goldman Sachs is not overpaying, since any meaningful downside risk is covered for them. While at the same time, peripheral buyers are most certainly overpaying, since, after all, the substantial cost of putting a floor under Goldman needs to be paid for by someone.

The Fed will no doubt, as they have always done, try to pass as much of that cost as possible onto people who aren’t in a position to buy stocks at all. After all, redistribution from them to stock owners, hence transferring resource control from people who produce and create, to people whose incomes are solely dependent on Fed welfare, is what The Fed exists to do.

But as those transfers have left more and more of the productive classes destitute, The Fed is increasingly facing “Thatcher limits,” meaning they are running out of other people’s money to steal. At which point, they have no choice but to start peeling off the outer layers of the once-were-protected-class onion.

They started that process in earnest in 2008, where the most peripheral of those who were at one point beneficiaries of the redistribution, were peeled off and relegated to the “redistribute from” side. Such that the 5% who used to be beneficiaries, are now down to perhaps 3% or less. All justified by the propaganda apparatus, by changing their status from supposedly positive sounding platitudes like “risk takers”, “job creators”, “investors”, “developers” blah, blah; to supposedly less positive sounding slurs, like “house flippers.”

As the theft and redistribution is leaving more and more once juicy targets with less and less to steal, The Fed will have no choice but to continue such peeling off of outer layers. Such that some of those who used to be members of the N%, will now be thrown under the bus in order to prop up the N-d% which is all The Fed can now scrounge up enough loot to keep afloat by redistribution. It’s how all kleptocracies always end up circling the drain in ever tighter circles, at the end of their lives.

So, while there is no way of determining precisely whether someone is overpaying as of current, what can be said with certainty, is that more people are overpaying now, than were overpaying prior. And more people than that, will be overpaying in the future. It cannot be any other way. Since as more and more of those who The Fed used to be able to rely on robbing to keep the charade going, have been rubbed to destitution; new fresh blood, in the form of some of those who used to be net beneficiaries, will always have to be thrown under the bus and robbed, in order to afford propping up those higher up the “Fed Closeness” ranking than themselves.

Bam_Man
Bam_Man
3 years ago
Reply to  Stuki

You nailed it.

channelstuffing
channelstuffing
3 years ago

Fed will never let the “market” drop again (ever),Powell made deal with Bezos to make him the first trillionaire for 10% and lifetime free shipping,thats a 100 billion,Trump’s cut is less than half that.

TumblingDice
TumblingDice
3 years ago

“Are you overpaying for stocks?”

Answer: No.

I didn’t sell when the economic shutdown started. When Congress started spending trillions of dollars and the Fed said they would backstop the economy I saw that inflation would be coming.

I did buy 5 shares of Starbucks at $61, wish I would have done 10.
Starbucks is now at $77.
Other than that I haven’t been buying so NO I’m not overpaying.

I’m sure others sold at lows and now are BUYING HIGH.

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  TumblingDice

“I saw that inflation would be coming.”

Ha.

Enjoy the deflation.

TumblingDice
TumblingDice
3 years ago
Reply to  TumblingDice

@Tony Bennett, Personally I think Congress adding $3.5 trillion to the economy is a lot of sideline cash. This money has to be spent somewhere. Indirectly food companies (General Mills, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc. ) will be helped since people have to eat. These food companies need oil companies to haul product. Computer companies are needed for the above business to conduct business.

Credit destruction makes sense, but the National budget deficit took a jump because of the Covid-19 pandemic. The National Debt is credit expansion.

You can use the Fed’s definition of inflation which excludes many costs of everyday life. I will use the full economy.

bradw2k
bradw2k
3 years ago

The Fed has disconnected assets prices from assets (by destroying yields). The result is NOT that prices will stay high forever, the result is a casino. Literally, “investors” are just trying to out-maneuver each other, day in day out, caring less and less about the underlying properties or their profitability (don’t laugh). … I expect one of these days there’s going to be some genuinely good news (maybe Trump losing?) and then everyone will try to get out of equities at the same time, and smart people will say “well of course the Fed couldn’t keep stock prices up!”

THX1138
THX1138
3 years ago

Time after time I click the link only to be greeted by embeds of twitter feeds… why bother? Is Mish going to write anything anymore, or just republish twitter?

Spyguy
Spyguy
3 years ago
Reply to  THX1138

Mish is nonproductive as they say in economics. Just transfers money or makes money off others. He doesn’t create anything.

Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  THX1138

The Twitter feeds don’t show for me, anyway, so I only read Mish’s comments, and then guess from his titles what might have been in the Twitter feeds.

michiganmoon
michiganmoon
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R

With internet explorer Twitter doesn’t show, but Google Chrome let’s me see them.

Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  michiganmoon

I use Firefox, mostly, and it never surprises me to not see Twitter feeds, considering that I specifically block Java from Twitter unless there is something I really want to see. Hopefully I didn’t sound like I minded not seeing them.

anoop
anoop
3 years ago

What if we are headed to a PE of 100 and that becomes the new normal? Money is cheap. If the price/annual income can go up for housing, surely stocks deserve a bump in PE. There is NOT going to be a reversion to the old mean. Ever.

It make no sense analyzing markets by fundamentals anymore. What makes sense is how to position ones resources in the various asset classes to take advantage of what the fed is offering.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  anoop

Income go up for the poors? Why, that’s communism!

Spyguy
Spyguy
3 years ago
Reply to  anoop

Einstein said everything is relative. Banks pay .10% interest and you must search diligently for meager gains. I can’t believe and I am astonished by how little attention is paid to making gains. You can’t save your way to success. Brokers make millionaires out of multi millionaires.

anoop
anoop
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

For those who believed in the fed and have bought into the market almost any time in the last 10 years, it has worked out quite nicely. For those that bought at the top, we are about to blow past that in the next month. We end the year at S&P500 4000 at a minimum. It’s the only way pension funds can stay solvent. It’s the only place all the fed money can go. Even permabears like David Rosenberg threw in the towel eventually (albeit late) and Hugh Hendry (remember him?) was forced to close shop and retire. Mish has been wrong all along. Moral of the 2008/2009 story: DNFTF (Do not fight the fed). I missed the boat then, and missed it again this time too.

aqualech
aqualech
3 years ago
Reply to  anoop

Why even have business models with a hope of profit at all then? Just have publicly listed shells that people buzz about and bid up and trade to ever greater fools. Publicly listed Beenie Babies are the new investment hot trend?

JonSellers
JonSellers
3 years ago
Reply to  anoop

American capitalism is no longer about earnings, its about taking on debt to drive up share prices at all costs. Wealthy people have so much money that they have no where to make money other than finding ways to drive up the stock market. And earnings are taxable. To not follow that trend is crazy. You may not like it, but its not going to change.

Nickelodeon
Nickelodeon
3 years ago
Reply to  anoop

The current price of physical gold is a gift from the Fed….

numike
numike
3 years ago

This Treasury Official Is Running the Bailout. It’s Been Great for His Family.
Deputy Treasury Secretary Justin Muzinich has an increasingly prominent role. He still has ties to his family’s investment firm, which is a major beneficiary of the Treasury’s bailout actions. link to propublica.org

Spyguy
Spyguy
3 years ago

Mish, I think you should relax. You live in Illinois. With the COVID tax repercussions you won’t have any money to invest. If Biden wins everyone will be in the 50% bracket. You will beg for another shooting so you can get shoes for your family.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

I’m already there, if you total it all up. Yet somehow I manage to bank a few thousand every month.

Spyguy
Spyguy
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

So how much do you think property and state income taxes will go up? They will lower the real estate value assessment but increase one of the multiplication factors . They might have to go after the sacred cow and start taxing pensions and then watch the exodus. You can’t get a pay raise big enough to match the increase. If you get a raise you tax bracket up.

Tengen
Tengen
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

Where can people run to? You can’t evade the Fed’s terrible policies unless you leave the country, and even then you’re probably subject to another odious central bank.

The whole shebang is coming down at some point, for the US and most of the world. Endless printing has consequences.

Spyguy
Spyguy
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

I live in Sun City Az. Taxes $1000 per year. Best dry weather ever. All major retail minutes away. Includes recreation centers in taxes. 8 golf courses. Minuscule minorities since kids are not allowed. Lots of 1600 square foot houses for under $250k. Mountains for hiking nearby. Drive a golf cart anywhere including grocery stores. Place shuts down at 8 pm and when the garbage trucks come by you can hear all the liquor bottles being dumped.

Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Spyguy

Biden will probably win in the Fall, and the first action will be to bail out states like Illinois. After all, the Federal Government has infinite money, and can spend with no consequences, so why not reward the Blue states that have big financial woes?

njbr
njbr
3 years ago

2010 was a mere kitten sneeze. There already were a lot of major changes in the pipeline before CV.

njbr
njbr
3 years ago

I’ll save everyone the trouble–the fed will keep the values up.

There, I’ve saved a lot of electrons.

Good luck when the permanent change in trajectory is apparent.

There was a real break in long-term trend, the slope of growth really lessened.

Wait until you see this one.

But, but, but the fed….

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  njbr

Electrons are basically infinite, and they want to be heard! Shrieking to follow.

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