Gove Says Gove says EU ‘refusing to negotiate’ on Brexit
The government says it does still want to negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU. But the minister in charge of no deal preparations, Michael Gove, says Brussels isn’t interested.
EU Open for a Deal Says Irish Prime Minister
Leo Varadkar, Ireland’s Taoiseach (Prime Minister) says EU is Open to New Brexit Deal if Boris Johnson Drops Red Lines and Offers Concessions.
Mrs May’s key red lines were that the UK would leave the single market, would leave the customs union, would end free movement and would bring an end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain.
Mr Varadkar said: “We ended up with the withdrawal agreement and the backstop because of all the red lines that were drawn up by the British Government.
“Now if we’re going back to square one and those red lines are being changed, then we’ve something to talk about.”
Mr Varadkar made clear that Ireland was not prepared to renegotiate the backstop – the insurance policy which it insists is crucial to ensure an open border on the island of Ireland but which unionists have overwhelmingly opposed because it would erect barriers between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
UK Open for a Deal
Let’s modify the above link title by changing just a few characters: UK is Open to New Brexit Deal if the EU Drops Red Lines and Offers Concessions.
Is that not equally valid?
If the EU can have “red lines” why can’t the UK?
Just as the EU is “open for a deal” the UK is “open for a deal” on the exact terms Varadkar wants, just in reverse.
Varadkar Points a Finger
“If no deal happens on 31 October, it will be as a consequence of decision made in London,” says Varadkar.
Boris Johnson can of course make the identical claim.
The reality is No Deal if no one is willing to budge.
Stepping Back
It is crystal clear the EU tried to screw the UK. It is caught on film.
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, admitted on film, that the EU intended to use the backstop as a means of applying permanent pressure on the UK.
Let’s Discuss Brexit
Caught on Film
Please, Let’s Discuss Brexit (and How the EU Bragged, on Film, About Screwing the UK).
- The EU bragged about crushing Theresa May: “We Got More Than We Hoped“
- The EU admitted Theresa May wanted a customs union all along.
- Michel Barnier spoke on film of “using Ireland for future negotiations. Isolating Ireland and not closing this point, leaving it open for the next two or three years.”
- Barnier used the words “permanent pressure” in regards to the backstop.
- The EU bragged about “getting rid of the UK on EU terms” and turning the UK into a “colony”
Why Did the EU Authorize the Film?
- To mock the UK
- To openly show that no one could leave the EU without being severely punished.
- Pure arrogance
The EU cannot hide its intent of trapping the the UK in a permanent customs union, with no say in policy.
Assigning Blame: How? When?
There is certainly much blame to spread around. But how? And when?
Theresa May
Theresa May was totally incompetent and let the EU run all over her.
May stated countless times, “No deal is better than a bad deal” yet she negotiated the worst treaty in history. The EU even bragged about it in the above video clips.
Not only were May’s negotiation skills pathetic (some believe purposely so), she also blundered politically.
It was May, not parliament who asked for and received Brexit extensions. Had at any point May told Parliament “I will not back extensions so you either take my deal or No Deal”, I believe her deal would have passed.
Instead, May alternated between attempts to persuade Tories they she would remain and the Remainers that she would go for No Deal.
Both the Remainers and the Hard Brexiteers called her bluff. Both sides were essentially correct, sort of, as neither happened, under May. What will happen under Boris Johnson is another matter.
Michel Barnier
Barnier is to be congratulated for negotiating the best, most one-sided deal in history. Trump would be proud.
But it was so one-sided that the UK parliament rejected the deal in three “meaningful votes” leading to the forced, tearful resignation of Theresa May.
Jeremy Corbyn
Jeremy Corbyn blasted Theresa May for her deal. She blames him for No Deal because he would not back her pathetic deal.
Emmanuel Macron
Macron is a relatively minor player but he was opposed to further extensions that May asked for and received reluctantly. October 31, is a Macron-induced compromise. Had the date been later, there would have been more time to oust Johnson and ask for still more extensions or for Corbyn to win an election.
Leo Varadkar
Varadkar’s role in this mess is of a more recent nature. If he is foolish enough to take a bullet for EU solidarity, there cannot be a deal.
Varadkar reiterated today that the deal on the table for the UK is “as good as it gets“.
What is Johnson supposed to do other than say “shove it up your ass“, albeit in more polite terms.
Boris Johnson
Johnson inherited this mess from Theresa May.
May said she would deliver Brexit and didn’t, not even with three extensions.
The Tories will get clobbered if Johnson fails to delivers.
Remainers in General
Remainers second choice would be a customs union, not No Deal.
Like Corbyn, the Remainers including the Liberal Democrats and Scottish MPs could have backed Theresa May’s deal which failed by only a few votes.
The Remainers foolishly believed that Parliament could stop No Deal and they would get a People’s Vote Referendum that would succeed.
The Remainers got Theresa May correct, winning that battle, but losing the War.
Let’s fill in the percentages taking all of the above into account.
By Country, Who Gets the Blame for No Deal
- EU: 55%
- UK: 40%
- Ireland: 5% (perhaps higher from a more recent aspect). If Ireland would bend, so might the EU.
Call it 60-40 or so in favor of the EU.
By Person, Who Gets the Blame for No Deal
- Michel Barnier: 40% His Brexit negotiation team attempted to screw the UK and nearly got away with it.
- Theresa May: 25% She never really wanted to leave. Her negotiation tactics (lack thereof) would have put the UK into a permanent customs union at the mercy of the EU forever. The UK parliament rejected her pathetic deal three times.
- Remainers in General: 15% – I am sure the Remainers would prefer May’s poor deal to No Deal. And they had numerous chances to accept her deal. Instead, they held out for the impossible.
- Leo Varadkar: 10% – all of it recently with his silly statements. There is no chance of a deal unless he bends. The 10% is on the assumption that Varadkar won’t bend.
- Jeremy Corbyn: 5% – The major irony is Corbyn wants a customs union, nearly identical to the one May negotiated. He could have at any time backed May’s deal. I assign Corbyn only 5% because politically-speaking it would have been very difficult for him to back May’s deal. He could have offered free votes though, instead of the Whip.
- Emmanuel Macron: 5% – The final extension compromise was poorly timed. One can thank Macron for that. There is no time for Parliament to stop No Deal. A longer extension, which Macron would not support, would have given the UK parliament more time for shenanigans.
- Boris Johnson: 0% – He is doing exactly what he said he would do. The UK parliament did no believe him, nor did the EU. That’s not his fault. Politically, Johnson must deliver Brexit, not some pathetic rehash of Theresa May’s deal. That is the political reality. Johnson gets no blame.
One Sided Deals Don’t Work
Total that up and it’s roughly 55-45 in favor of blaming the EU.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. This will be debated for years.
But the moral of the story is one-sided deals ultimately fail. And the Barnier-May deal was amazingly one-sided.
They get the blame, not Johnson.
There is still some minor chance of a deal, but Ireland has to bend first.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
It’s a pity, but I want understand WHY must Eire bend to UK ?
I call all the Irish people of this blog to explain me, if for you it’s understable.
Mr Shedlock, I have see again the video on the middle of the article of blog.
I didn’t make that because when I hurt these lies, I get angry.
But I have hurt your president and your liar here make sense when you know that the american bad haircut, don’t confused with the british BoJo, insulting again Président de la République Macron. Your president insult my Président, to extend he insults me.
I think it’s a default of american people, no I’m exaggerating, it’s you and Trump (the people Trump), you lie and insulting people who have an opinion.
For Trump, it isn’t the words, I wrote the lines above.
But for you, there are in the video many problems I have already explain what the 5 extract have problems.
The first four videos during les than 1 mn, with videos so short you can explain anything (Barnier wants flower, May is a saint, BoJo is a whore) (this is example that I don’t believe) on with one or two words of people, magic you create a false context who make manipulate the people. I think it’s very serious.
But the fifth video, I would like to remain that they are people in, it’s not precised but probably, in the office of the European Commission. This people talk to each other on they talk about an agreement who fuck the UK. Thid video are many problems :
– why this people talk in front off camera the “evil” plan of Brussel and they know there are a camera yhey look at this.
– why this camera filmed ? to make a souvenir of the end of the “evil” plan ?
– why the people speek in english ? People at the Commission speek less than 3 languages english, french and german. It is work languages of the UE. They possibly to speak in english, but there are probably in Belgium, and the official languages are french, dutch, and german. You understand what I’m embarrassed, isn’t it ? it’s probably belgium people why they don’t speek in a langage who borned with ?
– this weird of this extract to, it’s the only, than we hurt the plan to UK. The only that the people explain, not the application of the vassalize UK plan, but the goals of the plan, when they are people in this secret meeting that they don’t know.
It’s easy to respond at this points (5th video), if you understand that it’s a fake.
I accused you Mr Shedlock to lying. For the first videos, a clever editing with cuts is enough, to deceive the viewer. But for the fifth video, I don’t know if there are your personnaly work and it’s a real problem, because if there are your work, YOU are an unscrupulous LIAR, who made a FAKE video that mathes your ideology. (It’s a communism method to convince people). They are a second possibility less sinister you’re a victim when us, the viewer of the video, and it’s your ideology that convince instantly with this video.
But in definitive, you lie at people who have confidence with you.
For me an European citizen, the lie as important as Trump’s insults because when you lie you insult all of european citizen like Trump when insult my Président, he insults all of the france citizen.
Mr Shedlock, liar, Liar, LIAR.
If you demand why I don’t respect you, it’s for that, with this lying you insult us. And for me people who insult me doesn’t have to my respect.
With this liar you can manipulate opinion that a hard brexit it’s a good things. But hard brexit make like a person takes a loaded gun and without paying attention shoots himself. It’s very dangerous.
We talk motivation with both of us, for me british citizen it’s my neighbours, my friends, and for you they’re probably prey for your country.
Hi, I have question to you Mr Shedlock.
You ignore me, but at the end I think you must answer, to maintain credibility of you are a people who respect democracy and freedom of opinion. That the value respect by an American citizen, isn’t it ?
Mr Shedlock, you tell us that Eire, the Republic of Ireland, must bend before the UK.
You don’t want answer, but the question “why you say that ?” is an important question. Because it’s indicative of the way you think, and it can lead readers to the steps to follow after reading you’re articles.
For me a country doesn’t never force to bend an other country. The history teach us that the seeds of war.
We have a famous example at the last centuries, after WW1 France wanted and has made Germany bend. This decision is one of the multiple reasons that 30 years ago Germany want to revenge and make the WW2.
Mr Shedlock, what’s you’re motivation to make bend Eire. And if it bends, WHAT does he give to the Crown of England ? Their membership of the UE ? But they are a majority (a big majority) to supporter to UE, you don’t want hurt Irish people ?
You cry that UE doesn’t respect the UK people, and you’re solution it’s you doesn’t respect Irish people. A link : link to en.wikipedia.org .
Mr Shedlock, yo want that your champion BoJo ‘say “shove it up your ass”, albeit in more polite terms’ at Eire. But again, why?
You have many contradictions, if you was protect the UK, but for an American I doubt, why doesn’t protect the smaller country who was martyred by his neighbour (I think to The Irish Potato Famine who make 1 million of deaths, two millions displaced person especially in US, the repression of island by Cromwell in 1649 since they are many discriminations with the religion, Irish language…)
I don’t know why for you independance, and this is a very great word UK isn’t prisoner of UE, you are the proof UK make brexit, I say independance of UK to UE is most important, and not independance Eire to UK.
And it’s thanks to the UE, Eire becomes what has been called the celtic tiger. Irish people remember that and for people it’s thanks to UE.
It’s probably the reason that Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is a support that UE.
And I want to answer why Eire bend to UK ? And what they give to UK ?
I suggest at the people to see this site to understand many information on the brexit : link to brexit.hypotheses.org it’s a site very complete and for you they are a single problem it’s in french.
But this is a site that analyse the process of brexit, and like me I have see a blog pro-leave, you can see a site pro soft brexit, they are many article when explain why it’s dangerous to closed brexit with remain of UK.
Hello everybody,
It’s time for me to take over my questions.
For people doesn’t know who am I, I am a french people, and for me the brexit it’s a strange decision take by the majority of English people and the majority of old man people, I say that because of the polls who design this people’s category responding of this decision. It’s a strange decision because that conduct to the crash of UK, certainly this crash is embedded in old ideas of UK grandeur, but it’s the final result who’s important, and it’s a crah.
I respect you British friends, I respect you British neighbour. I respect your decision although I think it’s a bad decision.
But I don’t respect people they don’t respect me. And the owner of this blog doesn’t respect me probably because I’m french or european citizen.
His words, his sentences will deny the European construct.
I want to know why Mr Shedlock tells this sort of racism against the UE.
This racism is expressed by many sentences of Mr Shedlock. I quote : “If Ireland would bend, so might the EU”. But the blog’s Owner doesn’t want explain me despite my many messages, why in the strength report of imagine the Ireland must bend and not the UK, or why the UE must bend not the UK.
I want to see bend anybody, I’m not an american and I know history, make bend a country conduct always to the war. It’s probably for that I don’t understand why the May’s deal is reject by England government (it’s not scottish that reject, it’s not wales that reject, it’s not Northern Ireland, it’s Westminster). This deal is probably the best deal win-win in the midst of all this waste.
I understand that my words and sentences doesn’t read by Mr Shedlock, a people who find normally that a country bend to another country, a people like this find war it’s an interrest solution, and peace a coward solution.
UE, against the thought of this blog, is a construct to apport peace at this member between this member. And it works! Quote me a war in Europe between 2 members of CEE or after that UE. It isn’t possibly right ?
They are crisis, they are crying between members, but not war, and it’s the most significant of this construct.
Why racism against UE ? Because it’s the first market of the world ? We are the world’s leading exporter with 2600 bilion of €.
I wan’t understand why you don’t accept Mr Shedlock a peaceful solution.
For American it’s probably a good solution that UK crash, but it isn’t a good solution for European, UE AND UK.
For UE it’s a risk to war at this gate, and for UK it’s a risk to became a third places powerfull in the country.
It isn’t easy to hear but for UK, I think China is not friend, India is not friend, US, is not friend, and UE is probably once important friend you have.
When I read solution to vassalize UK and destruct UE is good solution, I’m leaving in a hurry. Because that solution is good for China, India, Russia, US, not for UK or european.
In the beginning of that post I speak I have question, and there it is :
– Why used racism against UE (and probably UK) ?
– Why want war in Europe ?
– Why doesn’t respect country of European Union ?
I realise that a long post, and this question has important and Mr Shedlock want destroy Europe (not UE, I means Europe the mainland and this island).
Mr Shedlock doesn’t want to answer of a simply question, I remind you that WHY IRELAND BEND TO UK ? I ask to the irish people iof they understand that Mr Shedlock says that because I find he doesn’t respect a beautiful island, and a beautiful country. And I want know why.
Me, I don’t respect this people because he doesn’t respect me an European, with tell lying on European Union, he doesn’t respect you readers of this blog by a great orienting of this words. But if it’s possible I would like know why for him, Irish citizen is second class of citizen, last english citizen and probably (but it’s only a conjecture) the Us citizen.
I want an answer to Mr Shedlock, and I ask over, and over, and over, to have my answer
WHY IRELAND BEND TO UK ?
You don’t want to answer of my simply question, I ask again, because it’s for me the most important question, I asked to you.
You say Ireland has to bend first.
My question is simply WHY? Ireland is a sovereign country, and this type of country doesn’t bend to diktat of other country, I think that for you the deal between UE and UK doesn’t work but it works both ways.
My question is WHY IRELAND BEND TO UK ?
I continue to ask this question over and over, and I want an answer, American.
I have many questions you doesn’t want answer and you censorship me, but I ask.
1) You say Ireland has to bend first.
My question is simply why ?
2) It’s the fault of BoJo to 0% and Macron to 5%.
Once again I wonder why ?
I have arguments that go against what you’re saying.
Here they are : BoJo is an important politician that he have sell the “brexit” when UK and UE doesn’t know really the name, and he wants to make campaign to leave the UE. And they doesn’t want the position of prime minister (he knows it’s a poisonned gift), it’s at the beginning the foreign secretary of May link to theguardian.com . At this moment we are in 2016, Macron create a politics movement to gain the Elysée, En Marche. And for french people it’s nothing because the the favorite of polls to make Président de la République is Alain Juppé. In 2017, in march I guess May trigger Article 50.
Here the are the treaty (french version, because it’s referencies) link to eur-lex.europa.eu.
I purpose the content of Article 50 :
1. Tout État membre peut décider, conformément à ses règles constitutionnelles, de se retirer de l’Union.2. L’État membre qui décide de se retirer notifie son intention au Conseil européen. À la lumière des orientations du Conseil européen, l’Union négocie et conclut avec cet État un accord fixant les modalités de son retrait, en tenant compte du cadre de ses relations futures avec l’Union. Cet accord est négocié conformément à l’article 218, paragraphe 3, du traité sur le fonctionnement de l’Union européenne. Il est conclu au nom de l’Union par le Conseil, statuant à la majorité qualifiée, après approbation du Parlement européen.3. Les traités cessent d’être applicables à l’État concerné à partir de la date d’entrée en vigueur de l’accord de retrait ou, à défaut, deux ans après la notification visée au paragraphe 2, sauf si le Conseil européen, en accord avec l’État membre concerné, décide à l’unanimité de proroger ce délai.4. Aux fins des paragraphes 2 et 3, le membre du Conseil européen et du Conseil représentant l’État membre qui se retire ne participe ni aux délibérations ni aux décisions du Conseil européen et du Conseil qui le concernent.La majorité qualifiée se définit conformément à l’article 238, paragraphe 3, point b), du traité sur le fonctionnement de l’Union européenne.5. Si l’État qui s’est retiré de l’Union demande à adhérer à nouveau, sa demande est soumise à la procédure visée à l’article 49.
You can observe that UE it isn’t a prison, because the first quote of article 50 is : “Tout État membre peut décider, conformément à ses règles constitutionnelles, de se retirer de l’Union”, I don’t know if in your country the state can that, I remember many have been tempted, but it led to the Civil War.
In 2016 may, Macron is elected to the post of Président de la République.
In 2018, BoJo leave May’s government in 9 July, wikipédia : link to en.wikipedia.org and he’s trying to sabotage the first May’s deal.
In 2019 May proposes to resign if parliament votes her deal. (I think it’s a brave woman, because she sacrified his position, to make a deal win-win with the UE).
BoJo is nammed prime minister and he reject immediatly all of the May’s deal.
So I ask my question why it’s the fault of Emmanuel Macron? and why it isn’t the fault of BoJo ?
Thanks to ask as the tree questions and I arrest you accused you’re a liar.
If you want to censorship me you can, but it’s the demonstration you doesn’t want any objection and you aren’t a democratic personn.
Mish, who is to blame will be directly affected by who asks! The Conservative will blame the guy in the office: Boris Johnson. The European will blame Boris Johnson and the Americans will blame the EU.
The fact of the matter is that if hard brexit is the outcome, then BJ will be blamed if it’s not all perfect…He’s the guy with the job! Boris certainly didn’t start this fight, and May must share a good part of the blame. Europe never wanted the UK to leave the union, their perception is that they’ve got to make it hard for anyone to leave. Don’t need a PhD to figure that one out.
I guarantee that if Brexit turns into a massive problem for the UK, Boris and the Conservative will share the blame. Political scientist and pundit can blame who they want but the British electorate will punish the Conservatives — and rightly so! Moreover, Boris is the leader of the party, he wanted the job and despite not having much time to get anything negotiated, he’ still going to be the one holding the bag. Finally, Boris was responsible for many of the lies that the pro Brexit peddled during the referendum period…
Speaking as a Brit, the majority voted to leave the EU.
They didn’t vote to leave ‘with a deal’…be it hard or soft but just to leave.
This vote has not been respected up until now. In fact, every effort has been made to subvert it.
I suspect that if BJ leaves at the end of October [either with or without a deal] and holds a GE shortly afterwards that the Conservatives will be returned to government with an enhanced majority.
If there are adjustments required after leaving we will rise to the occasion despite whatever impediments the EU might care to put in our way.
Your video, in the center of this article, you used 5 extract of video, the first 4 during less than 1 mn. And with a subject so short, you can explain all of you want and we have no sense of the video, no reason of the video, and especially without context.
But the last video, it’s a video with people speak in english, while you tell it’s probably in Bruxelles (Belgium, language : french, dutch, or german) or in Strasbourg (France 10km of Germany’s border, language : french and eventually german).
This fifth video, it’s a lie. Because I don’t think so people of UE speek in front of camera his evil plan to transform UK in what? a sextoy probably…
So I accused you Mr Shedlock to speak lies between brexit, and I understand why, it’s a simply you’re a US citizen, and for you it’s most interest to have a little 51 state who called england, than you have a big ally called UE.
You a lier, and if you want make censorship on my comment you can, but at the least you should file a complaint against me, because you manipulate british opinion for US interest.
If you file a complaint against me you should prove this video is not a lie, and this is for that, you will never press charges against me. Lier.
Be wary of replying to trolls and people who call me a liar. Those comments are subject to deletion and any replies to them automatically go as well.
you can file a complaint against me, it will force you to prove that
There’s another term for these kind of “deals”: Entangling alliances. Civilized countries avoid them like the undifferentiated mediocrity-aggrandizing plagues they all are.
Interesting commentary here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khVhEHl3QHs&fbclid=IwAR2zjsTJgNo3rwwTCBOkZVfA8nq2Idn4fIaQEEfYSiFmSbcmHi9ny9z263Y
bouhouhou, it’s the european fault! it’s the european fault!
As someone from Ireland, it always struck me as a stupid move for Ireland to take the EU’s side. Surely there was way more leverage to be had by taking Britain’s side and telling the EU: make it happen smoothly, or we’re leaving too. Then we could have had what we wanted and stayed friends with everyone . They probably thought it would never come to that. They probably assumed that Britain would handle it the way the Irish government handles it when a referendum results in the “wrong answer” – wait a few months and then hold another one.
If you Irish can you tell me the reason why the host of these places says that IRELAND BEND TO UK ?
Well, if we are talking one sided deals look into the preps the current administration is making for a UK trade deal. We get to feed them chlorine washed chicken and hormone filled beef. And oh yeah, the City of London, you are now going to be a second class status to Wall Street.
Mish, nobody writes as good as you on Brexit and those blog posts are the ones that interests me the most. So please keep them coming and don’t care of french hurt feelings..
Now if you only could go back to the old blog format I would be totally happy. Nowdays I have to click on each and every image to see it and it’s a pain. I also think the old garde from yesteryears provided for a much more interesting comments section than the current ‘clientele’ of yours.
What if we get a hard Brexit and queues at the ports are just a little bit longer, planes don’t fall from the sky, people don’t starve, the lights don’t go out, and the UK economy muddles along with no appreciable degredation? Who gets the credit in that case?
OK, you want a hard Brexit, but it’s you’re fault not us
BoJo prepare opinion to say all is the fault of EU, it’s lie.
Nah, it’s the globalist cabal setting us all up for a global reset to put an end to all our populist nonsense.
What Article 50 says is that the EU will conclude a Withdrawal Agreement with a departing State taking into account the future relationship between the two. The WA is merely a provisional agreement and it is perfectly clear it cannot gain ratification in the UK, so you (the EU) have not concluded a Withdrawal Agreement. Faced with this simple fact and reality the EU says it wont negotiate, so the EU is refusing to conclude a Withdrawal Agreement as it is required to do BY ITS OWN LAW.
No Article 50 is unclear, and it specifies a country can leave the UE, and they are 2 years to prepare a deal, but if they are not deal in 2 years, I paste this part of article (it’s the french version) :
Les traités cessent d’être applicables à l’État concerné à partir de la date d’entrée en vigueur de l’accord de retrait ou, à défaut, deux ans après la notification visée au paragraphe 2, sauf si le Conseil européen, en accord avec l’État membre concerné, décide à l’unanimité de proroger ce délai.
They probably have no prolongation, and this circus during between 3 years, Bretain leave. By by.
It’s the french version of Article 50, it’s the version on UE used, and you can used a translator, it’s not the false version who have between th brexit campaign this the link of document https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:2bf140bf-a3f8-4ab2-b506-fd71826e6da6.0002.02/DOC_1&format=PDF,
and this the totally article :
Article 501. Tout État membre peut décider, conformément à ses règles constitutionnelles, de se retirer de l’Union.2. L’État membre qui décide de se retirer notifie son intention au Conseil européen. À la lumière des orientations du Conseil européen, l’Union négocie et conclut avec cet État un accord fixant les modalités de son retrait, en tenant compte du cadre de ses relations futures avec l’Union. Cet accord est négocié conformément à l’article 218, paragraphe 3, du traité sur le fonctionnement de l’Union européenne. Il est conclu au nom de l’Union par le Conseil, statuant à la majorité qualifiée, après approbation du Parlement européen.FR26.10.2012 Journal officiel de l’Union européenne C 326/43
3. Les traités cessent d’être applicables à l’État concerné à partir de la date d’entrée en vigueur de l’accord de retrait ou, à défaut, deux ans après la notification visée au paragraphe 2, sauf si le Conseil européen, en accord avec l’État membre concerné, décide à l’unanimité de proroger ce délai.4. Aux fins des paragraphes 2 et 3, le membre du Conseil européen et du Conseil représentant l’État membre qui se retire ne participe ni aux délibérations ni aux décisions du Conseil européen et du Conseil qui le concernent.La majorité qualifiée se définit conformément à l’article 238, paragraphe 3, point b), du traité sur le fonctionnement de l’Union européenne.5. Si l’État qui s’est retiré de l’Union demande à adhérer à nouveau, sa demande est soumise à la procédure visée à l’article 49.
A few points.
Now do tell us all how the EU can justify refusing to Negotiate an agreement as ‘nothing is agreed until everything is agreed’. Parliament has said NO so there is no agreement concluded is there ?
Also as Article 50 states that the EU must be mindful of the future relationship between the UK and EU I was wondering what you envisage the relationship to be ? Given your posts here it would appear that you feel that relationship should be belligerent and hostile leading to War.
Here is the translation -:
Article 50
UE has negociate an agreement, the May’s deal during 2 years.
British government signed this agreement at that time.
But Westminster doesn’t want this agreement, and they are vote on this parliament, that permit to know the position of the parliament. This position is clear : Westminster doesn’t want hard brexit, doesn’t want this agreement, doesn’t want a modification of this agreement.
UE ask now a clarify of the British position, because we have a deal, and british position looks like “we doesn’t want anything but it’s your fault”. It isn’t a good attitude, I think, to have an agreement.
But they is a date when UK leaves UE. And they doesn’t exist a legal void between relations with a country.
If they are no deal, they are the applicable WTO rules.
In fact the Article 50 requirred a negotiation on an agreement not an agreement.
So, I have a remark for you.
You say “In Section 2 note it says ‘. . the Union SHALL negotiate and conclude with the State . . . taking into account the framework of its future relationship. . ‘”
But this sentence, I understand that design a negociation between the Union (Westminster) and the state of this Union (Pàrlamaid na h-Alba, Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, and Northern Ireland Assembly). It’s funny but I don’t see this negociation. Maybe I’m blind, but I ask if you respect the unwritten Constitution.
I say this point, because I have the impress that for you if they don’t have an agreement, it’s at UE to obey the constitution (no-writting!) of UK. And that means, for you, UE must negociate with parliament of state of UK.
For me UE must negociate with the entity designed by UK, and M. Barnier have made this mission (with Theresa May Government). And the rest it’s you’re internal problems.
“I still don’t understand the obsession with a country that has been in decline for decades and economy that is now smaller than at least 2 US states.”
I have explained this a dozen times already – This is the start of the breakup of the EU – an economy as bid as the US – this is a major deal
This is the start of the breakup of the EU
And this is why you like Brexit. You could care less about the well being of the Brits. It is your hate to the EU that drives your opinion just own it.
BTW just la Catalonia you are dead wrong about the EU
I still don’t understand the obsession with a country that has been in decline for decades and economy that is now smaller than at least 2 US states.
” But Mish, you say that the UK leaving the EU will be magnificent. Of course if it does go tits up then the consequences for the Brexiteers will be dire.”
Avid, the initial reaction will not be good for either the UK or the EU.
That is largely true because a global recession is coming as opposed to Brexit. Yes, Brexit will compound the problem.
But no, the consequences will not be dire. I expect after the next election the Tories will have a huge Parliament majority.
Long term, Brexit will be a success.
Define “Brexit will be a success” Mish?
I can say Brexit will be a failure, but if I can’t set some yardsticks, then it is just opinion.
Are you going to measure growth vs. the E.U. as a whole? Better growth over 10 years than any other E.U. member state? Per capita GDP?
My yardstick would be public opinion polls in five years time as to whether more Brits want to remain outside the E.U. than rejoin.
The UK will be subject to two economic shocks, one of which will be self imposed. In the event of a no deal the EU will impose a border between the EU and the UK because not to do so would mean that they would have to open their border in a similar fashion to the rest of the world. It is obvious that Johnson is heading pell mell for no deal.The UK will lose all FTAs and MRAs we enjoy through our membership of the EU. Our utilities are owned by EU state owned companies like EDF or SNCF, our industry, such as it is is owned by German, French, Japanese, Spanish or Indian companies, the largest section of our economy-services-is about to lose access to the largest market on or doorstep which will shortly remove english from the list of official EU languages. Couple all that with the rising tide of global economic chaos which is about to engulf us and the UK is about to experience the mother of all downturns. As the playwright said-fail, fail better.
“is about to lose access to the largest market on or doorstep”
We wont be in the single market, but we will have access to it.
No if you wont be in the single market, you doesn’t have acces
Not for services unless the ” Service” operates within the EU as an EU company. UK exporters will have to employ all sorts of people within the EU to export. Extra cost + tariffs, well done.
Eire c’est Irlande en gaélique irlandais
C’est marrant parce que tous les irlandais que j’ai croisé revendiquait Eire et pas Irlande, extrait de l’article wikipédia anglais
Ireland (Irish: Éire [ˈeːɾʲə])
BTW – It is 100% idiotic to proclaim “Boris Started This”.
Did Boris grant the Referendum?
Boris is the face of Brexit for Brits. If he hadn’t stepped forward and run about on a bus it would have been Farage. Boris = Brexit.
“Boris is set up for the fall. He started this, and he will get the blame for anything that isn’t perfect. He is toast.”
Setup for the fall? By Whom? Captain Kangaroo?
Toast? No, Corbyn is Toast.
This debate at least has a timeline. We will know which view is correct soon enough. Most likely by the end of the year.
I am willing to admit I am wrong if Johnson is tossed, are you willing to admit the same?
Yup, happy to admit I’m wrong, because that means Brexit has been a success for Britain, which is paramount. But do you expect Boris to be Prime Minister forever? Of course he will be tossed. What you really mean is, how will Boris be tossed – will it be like Thatcher or Blair, after a long and successful stint as PM, or will it be ignominiously after less than a normal term?
I’ll admit I’m wrong if he wins two elections as PM serving at least 8 years – the basic minimum for a successful post-war British PM.
Nobody is happy about Brexit, even the brexiteers aren’t happy – do you expect Boris to suddenly change that? (Do you know Brits? Happy isn’t our thing.)
“Should be fun explaining to the brexiteers that anybody from around the EEC can get into Britain by driving across the Irish border. So much for controlling who gets into the U.K.”
Please Think!
And precisely how are these people going to get to Ireland? Walk over from Syria through Turkey? By boat from Egypt or Libya?
Can they afford a plane ticket to Ireland?
If not – then either it’s by transportation magic or not at all.
Not if they are from Poland. It isn’t Egyptians that upset the bigots, it is foreigners in general, and the Poles are the latest “Johhny Foreigner” getting up their nose.
Mish, they borrow the money and pay the traffickers out of ” earnings” made in the UK.
You have one passage to Ireland by UE it’s France. More exactly the little Britain and the Normandy, we have port that connect Roscoff to Cork, and Cherbourg to Dublin. It’s easy to go to Ireland.
I remember my first business trip to Dublin in 1982. The Irish Republic countryside still looked like the Ireland of old, complete with quaint thatched roof cottages. Northern Ireland, by comparison, looked like it was stuck in a 1950 Rod Serling Twilight Zone episode.
In 2002, I went back to Ireland on vacation. We rented a car and drove 1200 miles about the island exploring. The Republic had been transformed; Billions had been spent on housing and construction projects, thanks to EU loans and aggressive recruitment of businesses by Ireland. I was shocked at the transformation. The old Ireland of storybook pictures had been swept away.
Very little had changed in the seven counties of Northern Ireland, however. It was still 1950. The investment disparity was blatant and obvious to anyone.
If that investment gap has been narrowed in the intervening 17 years since I last saw it, UK politicians will find it impossible to restore 1950 in Northern Ireland, imho.
Blame only matters if a no deal goes tits up. But Mish, you say that the UK leaving the EU will be magnificent. Of course if it does go tits up then the consequences for the Brexiteers will be dire.
Boris is set up for the fall. He started this, and he will get the blame for anything that isn’t perfect. He is toast.
The brexiteers will be unhappy about something – whining is all they have – if they had a real plan they would have run on it in 2016 instead of lies about NHS funding.
Boris’ only hope of any life after 2019 is that Corbyn is such a disaster that he is even worse – soon enough a competent politician will rise in either the left or the right and chart a new course. Probably aiming for a staging agreement like Norway on the road to rejoining the EEC in 2025 or so.
“A hard Brexit by default implies a hard border unless N. Ireland leaves the UK which I think they will do”
Who is going to put in the border?
Northern Ireland won’t and I bet Ireland wont either.
If Ireland wants to check trucks, it will have to do so on its own accord. No help from Britain or Northern Ireland
Should be fun explaining to the brexiteers that anybody from around the EEC can get into Britain by driving across the Irish border. So much for controlling who gets into the U.K.
If there is no border between the two Ireland then there is no border into England. Or are you saying that citizens from N. Ireland will need a passport to enter England? If so, do you expect people from England to show their passport when going to N. Ireland?
IMO what will happen in case of hard Brexit is that N. Ireland leaves the UK and so will Scotland eventually. BTW Scotland is the one with the bigger fisheries.
And no the US will not sign a trade agreement that favors the UK… Get serious
No-one underestimates the problems, but they are all solvable given good will, intelligence and investment in the necessary technology. Varadkar urgently needs to act to protect the interests of Ireland rather than doing the EU’s dirty work.
solvable given good will, intelligence and investment in the necessary technology.
Not really. There are things such as treaties and laws that can not be overcome with any of that. The UK wants to control its borders so that those bad hombres do not cross into the UK. Hard Brexit forces a hard border between UK and the EU. Norther Ireland is the UK therefore a hard border by law will be erected. This violates Good Friday Agreement. Anything else is wishful thinking
If Eire imposes a hard border, it will be the result of deliberate failure of imagination and refusal to cooperate.
Ok lets assume Eire dos not imposes a hard border. Will there be a border between N. Ireland and England? If they do not how do you keep all those undesirable immigrants that the UK seems to dislike so much? Brexit among other things about controlling the border. How do you that if there are no hard border? Do tell…
We’re not going to agree here, Carlos. Time will tell, but when I see how we cope between New Zealand and Australia, I know that a pragmatic approach can solve the problems, especially between friends.
The problem that it’s difficult to be friends when there was still in 1998 the trouble. We doesn’t want border, because it’s a risk to start again the trouble.
but Ireland has to bend first.
I do not see how you get there without violating the Good Friday Agreement. Free movement between both Ireland was key to the agreement. A hard Brexit by default implies a hard border unless N. Ireland leaves the UK which I think they will do
Hi Carlos
The Good Friday Agreement was signed to try to prevent further terrorist activities by the IRA and others. Years and years of bombings throughout Northern Ireland and the UK was the method the Irish used to force the UK to bend to terrorist activities.
I doubt whether such activities would be tolerated today but there is no doubt many in Ireland would start the bombing again to get their own way.
Hi: I have family on both sides of the sectarian divide in N.I. and they are both agreed that a hard border is to be avoided. The hard border is the D.U.P.’s Waterloo.
Also, the Irish will have the support of the congress to veto any U.S./U.K. trade deal while a hard border is in place. The U.S. is Britain’s major non-EU trading partner and they can’t afford to lose both the E.U. and the U.S. for the sake of a hard border – they’ll throw the D.U.P. under the bus at the first opportunity – the D.U.P. are only a factor because the Tories have a thin majority with them – if a post-Boris Tory leader gets enough of a majority that they don’t need the D.U.P. then the knives are out. If the Tories lose, then the D.U.P. are even more isolated and exposed.
The D.U.P. overplayed their hand and they will pay for years to come.
Common Travel Area? ” Freedom of movement” already existed between the UK and Ireland before the single market and had done since the 1920s. Ask any Irish person who came to the UK in the 1940s, 1950s, 60s, 70s ….. The same applied to UK citizens travelling to Ireland. I flew to Dublin before I owned a passport.
The security situation during the ‘troubles’ did causes issues on the NI border and I’m aware that unionists in the North were not keen on too many from the South coming across the border in the 1950s.
But the CTA remains in place and will continue.