I have been evacuated for 15 days due to this fire. Some empathy for those that have lost their homes would be nice. Some empathy for all that have been affected would be nice. More arguing about how to “fix” it, please just STFU.
When we the people sit around arguing about what to do, nothing happens, we just argue and society moves on to the next issue for all of us to argue about, nothing happens and the cycle continues.
Haven’t you all figured this out yet? Here I sit thinking some of you might have been smart, looks like I am the fool.
Best wishes. I’ve only been here 10 years or so but the fires are creeping closer every year to larger metro areas. Santa Rosa a few years ago. Tahoe this year. We’ve seen ash fall in my locale for the first time in consecutive years. So we are making a permanent evacuation plan. It is unfortunate but we cant say anymore that this all happen unexpectedly.
I’m very sorry for your troubles, and hope your property is safe. I have no solution, and won’t be trying to invent one.
whirlaway
2 years ago
All this clamor for “fire suppression measures” is just another way of saying loggers should be allowed to cut whatever trees they want to. And so, after they are hired to “clear the brush”, those b*****ds will take whatever wood can make them the most profit and leave the uneconomical wood behind – to burn in the next fire.
When these massive fires continue to burn year after year even after the loggers have “cleared the brush”, their useful idiot lackeys will have to come up with yet another excuse, and of course they will.
Cocoa
2 years ago
Keep in mind, all that forest is second or 3rd growth post Gold Rush. The SF Bay still gets mercury from the Gold Rush. The Gold Rush could be considered to be the biggest ecological disaster in CA history with Placer mining, overlogging and the regrowth of denser forests. Most of the land is going to be managed by private companies for logging and other stuff. Green movement doesn’t believe in forestry, just blaming Global warming. Those companies could be logging the weak growth out and use sustainable means. Not Pac Lumber clearcutting idiocy, but prudent management and resource management.
thimk
2 years ago
I see an incredible amount of lumber and wood products “up in smoke” . Next on deck mudslides ? . Did we love our forests to death ? stay tuned,,, the tale of 2 climates continues. (east/west usa).
njbr
2 years ago
By the way, drought and bark beetle have resulted in large areas throughout the west where over 90% of the trees are dead.
I don’t think many in the scientific community would NOT attribute beetle problems in the Northern forest to climate change. That one is a pretty safe bet.
Dead trees still can make fine lumber. The mountain pine beetle killed a lot of trees in British Columbia, peaking in the early to mid 2000’s. Many of those dead trees were still being harvested over ten years later. Some of them have a blue stain on them from the beetle but if the lumber is being used within a house wall then no one cares.
njbr
2 years ago
Trump demands more war (but not really aware of how much was spent over the years)…
“In addition to the obvious, all equipment should be demanded to be immediately returned to the United States, and that includes every penny of the USD 85 billion dollars in cost,” Trump said.
“If it is not handed back, we should either go in with unequivocal military force and get it, or at least bomb the hell out of it. Nobody ever thought such stupidity, as this feeble-brained withdrawal, was possible!”
Eddie_T
2 years ago
I sure hope the Caldor fire doesn’t harm Senator Feinstein’s little Tahoe lake cabin, which is for sale……even though demand has been up, it hasn’t sold yet after being on the market for a couple of months….maybe because there aren’t that many people looking to spend 41 million for a vacation home.
You might be surprised to learn that US forest area has been pretty much the same over the last 120 years, at around 745 million acres. Forest area has only varied by about +-5% from that value over this period. There is actually a slightly larger forest area today than in 1920.
“There was sure a lot of untouched forests to burn …..”
…untouched by firefighters / firesuppression.
That’s the important part. Let it burn naturally. Don’t intervene. Since, while intervention may reduce aggregate area under fire over a period, it also 1) makes the fires which do break trough much more intense, and 2)it encourages those living in fireprone areas to pretend they don’t, neglect planning for reality, and then clamor for mass to rob their neighbors when it again dawns on them that they do (the clamoring for massa which is, I suppose the whole point…)
It’s no different from bailing out banks, “home owners” and the leeches feeding off them, or from preventing income loss for people whose jobs are no longer needed. All it achieves is buying a bit of temporary tranquillity, at the cost of much, much greater upheaval down the road.
The other data point of fire suppression not being the cause of anything ? Look at most of these western states. Most of them have NOT suppressed fires and they are still happening. The common theme here is lack of precipitation which leaves the forests as tinder to burn when it gets hotter in the summer. There have been large fires this year in Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Utah, Oregon and Washington in addition to California. The story of climate change is you can run but you cannot hide. We are finding that out the hard way all over country from the Gulf coast to the West Coast.
I would suggest that CA is a bad example of persistent climate change. In reading about the the evolution of the redwoods, drought and fire are the norm, not what we’ve seen in the past 100 yrs. Some species simply cannot propagate without fire.
“Stine, who has spent decades studying tree stumps in Mono Lake, Tenaya
Lake, the Walker River and other parts of the Sierra Nevada, said that
the past century has been among the wettest of the last 7,000 years. The longest droughts of the 20th century, what Californians think of as
severe, occurred from 1987 to 1992 and from 1928 to 1934. Both, Stine
said, are minor compared to the ancient droughts of 850 to 1090 and 1140
to 1320.”
Not to argue the climate is not changing, but using the west coast as an example probably doesn’t support man-made climate change – considering we’ve been lucky rainfall-wise out there only for the past 100 years.
Some places aren’t going to be habitable within 10 years if this keeps up. And there are a LOT more people in the west than those previous 100 year cycles where there was drought.
“Look at most of these western states. Most of them have NOT suppressed fires and they are still happening. “
???
Then what the heck are all those firefighters and snowmakers doing? Are they just actors playing roles in a TV drama? It is California…..
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
I live about 70 miles from Tahoe. Yesterday I could see what looked like a volcano in the sky with two distinct clouds literally greyish-red from this distance. The wind cleared the smoke from our location but the wind generally goes uphill towards Tahoe anyway. I don’t think many of these places will be habitable in the coming decade so my wife and I are making plans to move permanently out of the west and back to somewhere where there is moderate rain, moderate winters and summers and no risk of fire, hurricanes or polar vortexes.
Not the Garden, but there is an area from around TN, KY, PA where’s there’s plenty of fresh water, temperate climate, a little snow for about 2 months, no tornado, no poaching-egg humid summer, hurricane, drought, fire, earthquake, with vast stretches of forests, though I’m biased now living near Pittsburgh lol
I strongly recommend New York City as the ideal place to live for anyone from Lake Tahoe. Baltimore and Philadelphia are also nice. You also might consider Chicago.
Bam_Man
2 years ago
None of this would be happening if we just paid more tax to the government.
Curious-Cat
2 years ago
“The costs of fire suppression for 100 years with dead timber mounting up is the main problem, not a 1 degree or whatever rise in temperature.”
Mush – can you please explain how you know this to be true and why both of those things did not contribute to this disaster?
He loves to parade his ignorance. Arguing that a “1 degree or whatever rise”, huh? Yo mish, you know what was the difference between New York of today and the region during Ice Age, when it was under ice 2 MILES thick? A mere 6 degrees centigrade.
Eddie_T
2 years ago
I used to know some people who lived up there, including a colleague who is retired now, I’m sure. I feel for those impacted.
Such a beautiful place. It’s a crying shame, just like all the other Cali fires that have laid a lot very nice country bare and wiped people out and killed people. If it comes back, it won’t be in our lifetime. I’ve been back to Lake County since the 2015 fires, but its so different now its remarkable, and I was deeply saddened to see the changes.
I haven’t been to Lake Tahoe since I was a kid, but I remember the water, for its clarity, and also because it was the coldest lake I think I ever swam in.
I have visited a rural forested area before and after a large fire.
It was a beautiful place first time, and I enjoyed camping and hiking.
Visiting three years after the fire, it was a moonscape, and I will never visit again.
dbannist
2 years ago
I’m not the first to say it but it needs to be said over and over again: You cannot adopt a green mentality towards the environment and also allow structures to coexist within large pine forests.
The only reason forest fires are even really a problem is because people built in the middle of them. I propose we let people build whatever they want on land they own in the pine forests but stop giving government subsidies to help them rebuild. Eventually the insurance companies will stop insuring them and then people will stop building. It’s quite painful to lose a million dollar home to a fire and have it come out of your own pocket.
There is a reason the West has as many forest fires as it does and that is due almost exclusively to the presence of uniform evergreen\pine forests, totally unlike anything on the East Coast.
No, it’s not just California’s reluctance to clean up the forest litter like the Republicans always claim. No, it’s not because of the drought. Ever wonder how fires were put out 500 years ago? They weren’t. They burned massive quantities of forest every so many years, essentially cleaning out the forest litter. Now we put them out. There’s plenty of evidence fires before industrialized man arrived were bigger, larger and covered 10x as much land as today. We’ve interrupted the natural cycle.
So fires like this yes, are exacerbated by dry conditions but happen even during wet years. As long as structures are built within pine forest these things will happen and cannot be prevented.
Claiming Republican or Democrat fault to a fire is like blaming someone for the Chelyabinsk meteor. You can mitigate the damage from fires and meteors but you can never prevent them.
Stay Informed
Subscribe to MishTalk
You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.
When these massive fires continue to burn year after year even after the loggers have “cleared the brush”, their useful idiot lackeys will have to come up with yet another excuse, and of course they will.
Trump demands more war (but not really aware of how much was spent over the years)…
“If it is not handed back, we should either go in with unequivocal military force and get it, or at least bomb the hell out of it. Nobody ever thought such stupidity, as this feeble-brained withdrawal, was possible!”
Lake, the Walker River and other parts of the Sierra Nevada, said that
the past century has been among the wettest of the last 7,000 years. The longest droughts of the 20th century, what Californians think of as
severe, occurred from 1987 to 1992 and from 1928 to 1934. Both, Stine
said, are minor compared to the ancient droughts of 850 to 1090 and 1140
to 1320.”
The only reason forest fires are even really a problem is because people built in the middle of them. I propose we let people build whatever they want on land they own in the pine forests but stop giving government subsidies to help them rebuild. Eventually the insurance companies will stop insuring them and then people will stop building. It’s quite painful to lose a million dollar home to a fire and have it come out of your own pocket.
There is a reason the West has as many forest fires as it does and that is due almost exclusively to the presence of uniform evergreen\pine forests, totally unlike anything on the East Coast.
No, it’s not just California’s reluctance to clean up the forest litter like the Republicans always claim.
No, it’s not because of the drought. Ever wonder how fires were put out 500 years ago? They weren’t. They burned massive quantities of forest every so many years, essentially cleaning out the forest litter. Now we put them out. There’s plenty of evidence fires before industrialized man arrived were bigger, larger and covered 10x as much land as today. We’ve interrupted the natural cycle.
So fires like this yes, are exacerbated by dry conditions but happen even during wet years. As long as structures are built within pine forest these things will happen and cannot be prevented.
Claiming Republican or Democrat fault to a fire is like blaming someone for the Chelyabinsk meteor. You can mitigate the damage from fires and meteors but you can never prevent them.