Deep Pockets, the IRS, and the Huge Flaw in Trump’s Tax Payroll Deferral

Deep Pockets

The WSJ reports Employers Cast Wary Eye on Trump Payroll-Tax Deferral

The president wants employers to stop collecting the 6.2% levy that is the employee share of Social Security taxes for many workers, starting Sept. 1 and going through the end of the year. But his move, announced in a memo Saturday, doesn’t change how much tax employees and employers actually owe. Only Congress can do that.
 

Employers’ biggest worry: If they stop withholding taxes without any guarantee that Congress will actually forgive any deferred payments, they could find themselves on the hook. That is a particular risk in cases where employees change jobs and employers can’t withhold more taxes from later paychecks to catch up on missed payments.

“The Internal Revenue Service will come to that deep pocket” of employers to collect payroll taxes, said Marianna Dyson, a lawyer at Covington & Burling LLP in Washington who specializes in payroll taxes. “Liability is going to stick to the employer like flies to flypaper.”

Dead on Arrival

With much brouhaha Trump signed a Series of 4 Executive Orders, One Requires States Pay 25% of the Cost.

Even Republicans are critical. 

Recall that Senator Sasse Blasts Trump’s Executive Orders as “Unconstitutional Slop”

OK, Trump had the right to defer payroll tax collection, but that is it. No companies will do along.

It’s back to the drawing board, and negotiating room where 20 Republicans Senators are against Trump’s the tax cut idea.

Mish

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Lysander3
Lysander3
3 years ago

If implemented, it would create a momentum that’s hard to stop. Once employees start getting a paycheck that’s 6.5% bigger than before, there’s no way they will ever want to go back. I view that as a good thing. Labor should be encouraged, not taxed. Im not in the pay range that would qualify, but I love the idea. The best bailouts start from the bottom. And once it becomes common place, the IRS is pretty much stuck. They can’t go after everyone. And there will be legal challenges if they try. As for what it does to the US budget, well…if the trillions spent on bailouts so far isn’t worrying anyone, neither should this. Maybe fight one or two fewer wars in the future and things might balance out.

Jdog1
Jdog1
3 years ago

There are a lot of really stupid comments about this. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone in Congress would not vote to forgive any deferred taxes? There is not a single person in Congress who would risk having to face their constituents after creating a financial hardship for them. Comon people use your brains for something..

highschooller
highschooller
3 years ago

Do you thing Trump graduated from high school?

  1. If you are making $1500 a month, 9.3 % deferred from Sept. to December for 4 months give you about $550. I doubt this little money helps you much. But then, you have to pay back in 4 months.
  2. If you are makin g $8000 a month, you are getting a big load of $3000. These high earning guys probably are not going to touch it.
  3. Since only Trump will forgive the money if he is elected, the odd is about 40%
  4. All the payroll are done if computer system, changing these system takes time and
    money. Are there any employer want to change it and change back in 4 months?
  5. President Trump. please take some math if you have time. You are a smart business man, you know the Art of Deal.
Herkie
Herkie
3 years ago

Well they just announced Biden’s running mate and for the first time since 1976 I now plan to sit this election out, and it does piss me off because I consider voting a DUTY! But I cannot vote for Trump and I will not vote for a man with so good a chance of not surviving his first term if his VP is Harris.

I will not knowingly aid that woman to get into the Oval Office.

Bcalderone
Bcalderone
3 years ago
Reply to  Herkie

You could vote for every other office except US President…there’s no law that says you MUST vote for every office on the ballot

Herkie
Herkie
3 years ago
Reply to  Bcalderone

That is what I meant BC, sorry you do not know me well enough yet to understand that. I still consider voting a duty I have never skipped before. And there will be state propositions, local and state offices, as well as congress to consider. Though this is a gerrymandered district I still need to vote against the old fascist in there. You know he represents The Villages where that White Power scandal video Trumpsky retweeted came from and has been totally silent about it.

Herkie
Herkie
3 years ago

By the way all, Kentucky, Moscow Mitch’s home state ranks #48 in jobs recovered since the start of the pandemic. His own people are just not going back to work. How many are going to be pissed off enough to vote for McGrath?

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
3 years ago

The Republicans have clearly lost the plot at this point. They are going to lose both the presidency and the senate thanks to their absolutely clueless leadership. They are going to set the Republican Party back 10 years. Heaven help us.

Herkie
Herkie
3 years ago

The only thing I disagree with is the part about them being set back 10 years. This is going to be generational, a lot like the time span between Herbert Hoover and Dwight D. Eisenhower. Count them, 23 years. And even then he was followed by a guy many thought a radical far lefty, Kennedy. The brand of the GOP was already in the toilet unable to pull off a popular majority. Now, I would be surprized if the party did npt split.

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago

Pelosi MIA

Not a peep out of her yesterday or today.

Any guesses?

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett

All they have to do is be quiet and let the fool burn himself down.

HubbaBuba
HubbaBuba
3 years ago

Dems “defunding” the police (no). Trump defunding Social Security and Medicaid. YES!

mudpuppet
mudpuppet
3 years ago

Fun watching you all loose your minds over Trump day in and day out.

Sechel
Sechel
3 years ago

It was poorly thought out just like much of what Trump puts out. He probably wanted the p.r. and didn’t think the reality would pollute the good will. Will take weeks before everyone figures it out and by then he’ll move on to the next gimmick.

It’s not happening.

TimeToTest
TimeToTest
3 years ago
Reply to  Sechel

@Sechel
It’s politics. The sound bite is all that matters. Do we remember Nancy dressed in African garb? Sound bite.

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago

The $400 / week DOA, as well.

For starters, States have to apply for federal funding. In order to get the $300 federal they need the capacity to supply $100. If State is broke, tough luck. Furthermore, those on UE must already be getting a $100 / week in benefits to be eligible. Many part time workers fall under this threshold and will get nada. It would take months to implement … apply for fed funds … determine who is eligible … finally kick out $$s.

The uproar would be HUGE if some States could pull it off and others couldn’t.

shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago

It’s a stretch to say Trump has the legal standing to delay the collection of payroll taxes. First, you have to declare an emergency. So this method of declaring an emergency to get whatever you want is bad bad bad. When a socialist president takes over there will be emergencies for gun violence, health care, climate change, wealth inequality and on and on. You reap what you sow.

Herkie
Herkie
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock

That is true Shamrock, in Oregon they had a “housing emergency,” and the governor (“progressive” with deep socialist connections) used it to first unilaterally declare a statewide rent control, the first in the nation, and then proposes to take ovr all local zoning laws in order to force the progressive vision onto private RE developers so that a certain amount of any new developement is set aside for low income and minority housing. Every new subdivision of houses will have to provide accomodation for not only poors but poors of color. Nevermind the lack of public transportation these suburban pioneers will need, or lack of walkable land, or that in urban environs there tend to be shops within walking distance but in the suburbs that is not the case.

Then you also have the factor that people being planted into subsidized housing in the middle of upscale neighborhoods are going to be looked upon and judged and made to feel unwelcome because the Goodwill Fairy in Salem does not in fact have the power to force people who just paid half a million bucks for their new house like and accept poverty stricken minorities next door. It is a freaking recipe for disaster. It makes things worse not better to force unworkable solutions on to people who are never going to accept being forced.

Fortunately it isn’t going to happen as developers will find a way to circumvent the unicorn fart plans of the governor and her legislative sidekick, the communist Tina Kotec, and feel free to have fun with HER name.

By the way, the rent control they passed is laughable and not control at all if you know anything about math. It allows the landlords to raise the rent no more than the CPI plus 10%. But, they were unclear in the language of the law if that meant 2% (pretending the real inflation reported by the CPI is 2% for example only) plus 10% of that 2% or 2% plus 10%. And the difference is giant. CPI plus 10% would be 12%, CPI plus 10% of the CPI would be 2.2% and I can tell you their actions were way too little way too late. My rent there in southern Oregon went up 90% between the 2013/14 lease and the 2019 lease which I declined to renew and left the state in early 2020. In a period where my COLAs amounted to a few percent rents nearly doubled. The time to act was before that happened not after, now what they have done locks in those higher rents forever because landlords can never reset them woithoug losing their financial base rate, it also means they cannot skip a year of maximum rent increases because they can never then make up for that loss of base income in future. It is a compounding thing that the socialists just do not quite get. If a landlord skips raising rents by the max allowed for a year or two he will eventually be so far below market rent he will end up losing the property over time. His compouned rents will not keep up with the compounded rent increases of those that did raise it by max every year.

Socialists want/demand solutions TODAY and do not know enough about finance and economics to understand the ramifications for the future. Rents on a compounding basis guaranteed to rise is way different from markets setting rents. For years rents did not rise till the state started messing with them. The first problem started when they passed a law in 2015 saying it was illegal to discriminate in rentals on the grounds of source of income, and that sounds all nice and fair. But what it meant was landlords could no longer deny a rental based on HUD section 8 as source of rent payment.

It forced all landlords to accept HUD and thus all the restrictions and rules of the HUD section 8 laws. The fine was $11,000 for rejecting a HUD applicant and it was difficult to prove that was not the reason you rejected them. So all dealings with landlords now are strictly time and date stamped.

The result of this law was landlords just raised the rents higher than HUD could by law pay. They were not responsible to lower their rents to a level HUD could pay. That level by the way was up to 135% of the median rent in a statistical market. So if the median rent was let’s say $800 the landlord only had to raise rent to $800 X 1.40 = $1,120. They also stripped out appliances since HUD recipients do not (not allowed) have savings to buy them, and obviously are too poor to purchase on credit. Also, there was nothing in the law that stopped landlords from collecting gigantic deposits so my last place there had a deopsit of $1,750 you just KNOW those crooked property management places are going to screw you and they did.

Many landlords just took rentals off the market, better to have a total loss of rental income and write off the loss than to risk running afowl of the new laws. So the vacancy rate dropped from 5.6% down to less than 1%, in my town anyway, and that alone would mean ballistic pricing.

It is just a self reinforcing economic clusterfuck with the main message of the progressives being we will FORCE you to accept our vision of economic and social justice even if it kills the whole state.

Ass backwards way of solving REAL problems. Killing prosperity so you can rebuild from scratch is not responsible leadership. Identify the problem, then address the real roots. But the politically correct mafia refuses to admit that poverty/minority issues have any roots in that community itself, all their problems are based in discrimination and racism. ALL OF THEM, so the solutions all have to be about going after the rich white guys doing this to the poor brown people. And they are never going to fix anything till they understand that the community of poor brown people have some real problems of their own they have to address before progress will be made.

magoomba
magoomba
3 years ago

A nice 1% tax on EVERY single share of stock traded, up or down, would be a good way to even it all out.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago

Looks like the idea was to use the deferral as “vote for me or you’ll have to pay it back”, backed by the full knowledge that he doesn’t have the power to deliver that… but it doesn’t matter after he’s elected.

As someone making over 100k that would still have to pay the tax. This is a non starter. It’ll kill social security, and I’ll get robbed of all the money I have paid in for decades.

Morons, of course, mostly don’t make over 100k, and don’t understand any of this beyond ‘gib me mah monays’, so they’ll love it. trump already had the moron vote though, so I don’t really see how this is going to help him even if it goes exactly as he’d like.

tokidoki
tokidoki
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz

We live in a country filled with morons.

jfpersona1
jfpersona1
3 years ago
Reply to  tokidoki

I’ve been noticing this very acutely.

And just like the pandemic behavior or idiots in traffic, the effect is non-linear. A couple people spreading the virus or a couple mental-rejects screwing up traffic doesn’t bring the whole system down. However, there is a critical point (not sure when/where that is) after which the effect becomes primary and everything goes into the tank. We may be beyond that in this country.

Anda
Anda
3 years ago
Reply to  tokidoki

“Adopted by the American Association for the Study of the Feeble-minded with a technical definition “adult with a mental age between 8 and 12″”

amigator
amigator
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz

most people making over 100k well stop paying the tax in and around sept 1 anyway. I like making it permanent Whoooo hooo drain the swamp. C’mom Trump!

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  amigator

… and we’ll start paying it again in January, apparently to subsidize delusional white trash like you.

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
3 years ago

Trump is a blowhard joker and even the Republicans know it. McConnell told Senate candidates running for reelection they are free to run away from Trump in order to still try to win reelection. Trump is effectively a lame duck president now.

tokidoki
tokidoki
3 years ago

Disagree Trump is a lame duck president. I think he can still win.

Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  tokidoki

possible but unlikely
No better than 1 in 4.
But 1-4 happens 25% of the time by definition

rojogrande
rojogrande
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish

With the Harris VP pick I think Trump’s chances just moved up a bit, perhaps 1 in 3. Given Biden’s issues, people have to view her as president and I’m not sure they do. The Democrats have decided to put anyone but Trump to the test.

ajc1970
ajc1970
3 years ago

1 in 4 are decent odds.

Every time you see Trump shooting himself in the foot again, just remember that Biden is working hard to one-up him. At some point after the hype of his VP pick, he’s coming out of the basement to screw things up.

Whichever candidate stays out of the public eye the most in the next 2 months probably wins.

rojogrande
rojogrande
3 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970

If you’re correct, that gives a considerable edge to Biden.

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