Behind the Chatter
Please consider the Chicago Tribune article on the ‘Illinois Exodus.’
An “Escaping Illinois” Facebook group has more than 39,000 followers. One man even wrote a song called “Goodbye Illinois,” lamenting the state’s taxes and political corruption and expressing his desire to leave.
The state has been struggling to keep residents for decades, with more people leaving than arriving since at least 1970. But it’s only in the last few years that the state’s population and that of its largest and most important economic engine, Chicago, have slipped.
Outward Bound
In 2018, the state had an estimated net migration loss of 6.5 people for every 1,000 residents, according to the most recent census data. Five years earlier, the net loss was about 3 people per 1,000 residents.
The latest number puts Illinois 49th out of the nation’s 50 states on net migration loss. Only Alaska had a worse rate, with a loss of 11 people per 1,000 residents.
Population decline is also happening in more parts of the state. From 1990 to 2000, 68 of Illinois’ 102 counties gained population. But so far this decade, only nine counties, including Kane, Will and DuPage in the Chicago area, have added residents.
Goodbye Illinois
“Well, they’re taxing this and they’re taxing that, pretty soon there ain’t nothin’ left,” Raudys sings as he strums a guitar. “Pension fund is so well run, worst in the nation: well done! I’d really like to stay, but I just can’t pay and pay.”
Absurd Census Questions
The Census Bureau conducts a survey every month that includes questions about why a person changed residences in the previous year. The survey offers a range of possible answers, from foreclosure/eviction to change of climate to “wanted better neighborhood/less crime.”
The Census Bureau does not ask about income taxes, property taxes, or even taxes in general.
Nor does it ask about business climate or any of the key reasons businesses leave. And if businesses leave, the workers follow or are forced to get another job.
Tax Load
The Illinois Policy Institute reports “Despite taxing both sales and income, Illinois has higher property taxes than every single state that does not charge an income tax.”
Property Tax on Median Home Illinois vs Indiana
Illinois vs Indiana Migration
Nineteen New Taxes
The above article was from 2017.
On May 24, 2019, the Illinois Policy Institute commented Governor Pritzker’s 19 Different Tax and Fee Hikes Total $6.9 Billion.
That is on top of new “home rule” taxes in Chicago and Cook County.
On July 1, the state doubled the Illinois’ motor fuel tax to 38 cents from 19 cents per gallon giving Illinois the second highest gas tax in the nation.
Home Rule Expands
Chicago’s “Netflix tax” expands statewide, with the state charging a 7% tax on users of streaming services, as well as cable and satellite customers. None of these services were taxed at the state level.
Other tax hikes include alcohol, property transfer taxes, parking taxes, and ride-sharing (Uber tax).
The new vehicle registration tax jumps to $199, the third highest in the nation, and electric vehicle registration goes to $250 every year to pay for the gas taxes that electric vehicle owners should be paying but aren’t.
Tax Sinkhole
Where is the money going?
Governor Pritzker says it to fund infrastructure.
That’s a huge lie. Nearly all of it will go to teachers unions and police unions as Illinois pensions are among the worst funded in the nation.
Huge Income Tax Hikes in the Works
The Illinois legislature recently approved a constitutional amendment to allow “progressive” income taxes.
The Illinois Policy Institute comments on what to expect.
The last state to implement a plan similar to Pritzker’s was Connecticut in 1996. State lawmakers made the same promises of middle-class tax cuts, property tax relief and increased spending on social services. Those promises were broken. In fact, the typical Connecticut family has seen a 13% hike in their income tax rates since the implementation of Connecticut’s progressive tax, property tax burdens increased 35%, and the poverty rate increased 47% during the 10 years following the passage of their progressive tax.
Get the H Out
The alleged “fair” tax is anything but.
And it will not stop here.
Get Out of this Progressive Socialist Hellhole
We are out of here. Can’t take it anymore.
We pay close to $15,000 a year in property taxes on a home worth about $400,000.
Firm plans in place to move to Southern Utah in 2020.
Why Southern Utah?
- North Rim Grand Canyon, Bryce, Glen Canyon, Great Basin National Parks just 2-3 hours away
- Zion National Park about 40 minutes away
- Capital Reef National 3 hours away
- Death Valley National Park 4 hours
- Arches and Canyonlands National Parks 5 hours
- Joshua Tree National Park 6 hours
- Mono Lake 6.5 hours
- Many excellent state parks nearby within an hour
- Las Vegas Airport about 2 hours away with cheap shuttles
In short, lower taxes, higher quality of life, escape from absurd property taxes.
Other states have lower property taxes or income taxes, but those national parks are a huge photo attraction.
Please check out Mish Moments, my photography website.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Realize tho that ST. GEORGE UT is also under attack. Because of the Univeristy bringing in outsiders and the big Homeless shelter the future of Saint George is falling to the NWO. Here I am in Saint George from Illinois tho I can forsee that Saint George is not the best spot. Perhaps Ceader City is better. Tho Ideally even Further North near beaver.
Sounds similar to california.
I actually moved to Utah thinking the same thing that you
Mentioned. Sadly,
I could not take the discrimination there. If your are Lds you
Will fit in just fine and be liked but if not you will experience discrimination. I only lasted 7 months and moved to Nevada. Nevada is a very American state with losts Of civil liberties. There is separation between church and state and no wacky liquor laws. Be careful
Because the people’s
Votes don’t count in Utah. Just a warning so you don’t have to waste your time and money and such a big move. Good luck.
I’m so glad I got out of Illinois when I retired from my Chicago government job at 55 more than 14 years ago. I moved to Florida and enjoy the climate and low living costs. BTW, since my pension is guaranteed by law, I got 80% of my salary when I retired, and annual cost of living at 3% yearly. I now make more than I ever did working, and recouped my pension contribution in 6 years! So glad to live in Florida and away from that high tax state of Illinois!
Illinois- the California of the Midwest, only with no scenery, terrible weather, and no home appreciation!
http://www.getoutofillinois.com
Moving from Illinois to Indiana is like moving from West Hell to East Hell.
I actually make quite a decent amount of money and glad I got the hell out of Illinois and moved to Nevada. Literally better everything here… no regrets!
should all work out good as long as the people moving into the state don’t bring the same political values that caused them to leave Illinois, CA and other liberal states
There is nothing remotely redeeming about Illinois or most of the midwest and most of the south. Welcome to the West Mish. The Rockies and West are some of the most beautiful places you can take pictures.
15000 US dollars a year? Jeez…I’m speechless. It seems we are heading towards a situation that any normal family with two working adults would have one persons salary going directly just for the taxes…
A propos of nothing. In Utha many restaurants don’t serve Coke because its got caffeine in it (swear to God — this actually happened to me a few years ago…a tiny restaurant in the middle of nowhere). On the other hand Mohab has to be the “coolest town” I’ve even been to.
Other huge advantage (winter doesn’t last 8 months…)
That is a problem all over the country.
Mass-holes from Boston are ruining New Hampshire.
Chicagoans voted for corruption, ruined their own city, and then they want to move to Arizona (Mish might have voted differently, but the majority of Chicago wanted and voted for taxes and corruption).
New York City and New Jersey, having run a massive economic center into the ground, are now moving to Florida to wreck yet another state.
Why aren’t these losers happy staying in the tax-and-spend utopias that they insisted on having?
Mish doesn’t seem to be a typical (majority) IL voter, but the overwhelming majority in IL voted for what they are getting. The majority of NYC residents keep voting for corruption and high taxes, and then they complain about getting exactly what they voted for.
Its important to ask why these fools screw up their own locales, and then move like locusts to mess up more locales. What happens to Mish’s plans if he moves to Utah, and then one of the socialists running for president gets into the White House? He will have moved for nothing.
And while we all comment about Mish moving for nothing, we are asking because we the commenters don’t want to have moved for nothing. We don’t want the tax and spend types following Mish out of Chicago. How do we invite the Mish’s of IL to our community, while filtering out the tax-and-spenders?
“Country Bob”: “How do we invite the Mish’s of IL to our community, while filtering out the tax-and-spenders?”
This also an issue with immigration. The people we get from other countries are generally good people, but 80% of them vote Democratic, and this is true even of the highly-educated ones who come here lawfully.
We’re bringing in a million lawful immigrants per year, and nearly a million illegal ones too.
Much of what is causing the big government and high taxes is the mass immigration over the last 50 years.
I think we should get to vote for everyone who wants to come to the U.S. Based on what little we can know from a profile of an immigrant, we should be able to deny them guest-worker visa entry, permanent status, as well as citizenship.
It should not be a right to be able to move to the U.S., simply because you have a relative here, you want to make more money, or you want to avoid corruption, etc.
Does tragic dirt and magic dirt explain why some countries are better than others? Or is it culture? I’d say its more likely to be the culture than the dirt.
the major problem we have is liberals vote in liberals to ruin their cities and states,they get disgusted with the way things are being run so they move to another state and then vote for the same idiots that screwed up their previous state.
Glad to hear you’re coming to the “way out” west. I made the move (from Pennsylvania) back in 2004 and never looked back. Unfortunately the Californians are fleeing for Colorado, and bringing their politics along with them. Nice thing about Utah is it is pretty much ruled by the Mormon Church, and they aren’t going to put up with “Californication.”
You might want to look at Mesquite NV too. No state income tax, and far enough away from Vegas to avoid most of their troubles. Not sure what the Californians are doing, but if they’re invading I’m certain they’re bringing their plagues with them.
Many people do not seem to realize that the people fleeing from the high taxed, highly regulated and corrupt states are conservatives who cannot stand it anymore. I know several families that fit that description. I don’t see a problem with them moving to nicer states, they should be welcomed.
BTW Mesquite does a great business selling liquor to thirsty Utah residents a few miles away. Utah only allows low alcohol beer, and my wife was shocked when she was not allowed to order a second glass of wine at a St. George restaurant.
Now do New Jersey.
Just one story (of many) about Southern Utah, first in an 8 part series. Beware.
Two big problems in Southern Utah. One is the water supply (both surface and ground). Two is the residual radioactivity and chemical contamination from nuclear and related testing. Nice area but those are major problems. Definitely good to leave Illinois though.
Re: 2banana
Mish – why even address a total jackass like that? he or she needs to get a life.
Mosh, not sure why Ottertail could only make it a year. You made a good choice. I have run a Raymond James Office in Houston for 10 yrs since leaving Merrill Lynch after 15 years. Have always loved your work.
My wife and I plan to retire to SAlt Lake where she is already there full time. People are great. Hard working, family oriented, and demand state and local government that works, not waste. Most fiscally responsible state in The Union (or what is left if it). And entrepreneurial, too!
Best of luck with the move!
” If there was any fairness – you should be forced to live it in it instead of infecting more sane areas with your political foolishness.”
Asinine comment of the year – and obviously false too
I support reduced government and government spending. Trump ought to try it.
I am against public unions and have been all my life. Never once voted for a union candidate which makes 2banana a liar.
Trump did nothing on that score. Nor did he propose bankruptcy reform which easily would have passed.
For that, 2banana exposes his anti-Mish bias to the nth degree.
He is clearly a delusional “Trump can do no wrong kind of idiot” hiding behind a TDS accusing mask.
And on top of it, he proposes a policy that amounts to once you are born in a blue state you cannot leave it.
2banana you are really pathetic.
Thanks for exposing yourself
In addition to confiscatory taxes, the People’s Republic of Ill-annoy is very anti-Second Amendment (FOID card).
I moved to Utah. One year later I moved out. People are very nice and solid from good stock. Pleasant enough, but if you’re not a Saint it’s hard to get close to them. Scenery? The best anywhere. Makes Colorado look like a dump. All that going for it and I couldn’t last more than year. Maybe you’ll have more luck. I hope so. My story is the norm, unless you’re planning to convert.
depends on the city. there is a reason it is known as “north las vegas”. been here 10+ years, no issues
You have to take the good with the bad. Without a strong religious influence keeping people in line, the place would likely turn to hell.
Mish,
Finally throwing in the towel.. Good luck! Utah’s supposed to be really pretty. Crystal Lake won’t be the same without you….!
Had friends up the road in Spring Grove sold their house for $275,000. They were paying about $9,000 ANNUALLY in property taxes (that’s 3.2% of the sales price). They left Illinois.
A couple years ago, some other friends sold their large, custom-built home in Long Grove for a little over $1,000,000. The buyers recently sold the same house for a little over $600,000 – that’s ‘blood bath’… Taxes were close to $30,000 ANNUALLY! Almost 5% ANNUALLY.
Look for the State to significantly increase the real estate transfer tax as well as income taxes……….. They know people are leaving and not coming back…
Transfer taxes drive down the prices of all houses — which lowers tax revenue (unless they raise property taxes more, which also lowers home prices). And don’t forget the state might collect capital gains taxes on house sales IF they don’t drive home prices down too much.
Enacting a big transfer tax (other states have tried it, not just IL) actually accelerates emigration and lowers tax revenues.
Pensions will get canceled eventually, but not before they hollow the place out.
Upstate NY used to have all sorts of jobs, all sorts of industries. The Cuomo family (two generations of them so far) managed to destroy everything in their sights, with the help of a very left leaning legislature.
Much as I sympathize with my former neighbors (who are hurting economically), the cold hard truth is that they are getting exactly what they voted for.
Socialism, in all its forms, causes economic suffering. Always has. Always will.
To Country Bob,
Amen, brother! But, as the saying goes….’stupid is as stupid does’….
just be glad you don’t live there…
“I don’t know how much Mish voted with the majority of IL… but the majority of IL needs to stay put and pay LOTS more. You voted for it, you pay.”
We had crooked and convicted governors from both parties. Did not matter how one voted.
Rauner, whom I voted for twice, had a chance to do something different then caved in
If the majority of IL wanted things to change, both parties would have changed (not necessarily change voluntarily, but they would).
The majority of IL got exactly what they voted for, exactly what they wanted.
A lot of people who voted “for” Trump are actually voting against the bullsh!t corruption, and Trump is merely the vehicle we are using to stick our middle fingers up at Washington DC. We know Trump is an -ss. So what? Have you seen the low life that is Washington DC? Have you noticed the corruption? Trump classes up the place, and yes he is an -ss, but he still classes up Washington DC.
I don’t know if he will drain the swamp. I don’t care if he puts a tariff on stinky cheese from France (not a cheese guy, sorry). And I don’t care that he put a limit on SALT deductions so the ultra-liberal folks don’t get a bigger write off than the rest of the country.
But I am fed of of politics as usual. Fed up of having to choose between insane Al Gore and dumb George Bush (it was lesser of two evils). Fed up of choosing between crooked Obama and war monger McCain — two nasty evils and none of the above wasn’t an option. And then the b!tch from San Fran designed the only health insurance scam that was worse that what we had before — and exempted themselves!!!
So I don’t care if Washington decided they wanted another Chicago crook to follow Obama. Screw them. Vote in the hair piece. Vote in my dog. Just enough with the crooks.
You won’t be safe in Utah if any of the socialists win the White House, so hold your nose and re-elect Trump unless you want to move to Mexico next
” If there was any fairness – you should be forced to live it in it instead of infecting more sane areas with your political foolishness.”
Asinine comment of the year – and obviously false too
I support reduced government and government spending. Trump ought to try it.
I am against public unions and have been all my life. Trump did nothing on that score either. Nor did he propose bankruptcy reform which easily would have passed.
For that, 2banana exposes his anti-Mish bias to the nth degree.
He is clearly a delusional “Trump can do no wrong kind of idiot” hiding behind a TDS accusing mask.
And on top of it, he proposes a policy that amounts to once you are born in a blue state you cannot leave it.
2banana you are really pathetic.
Thanks for exposing yourself
Quit voting when the Repubs ran Bush the Lesser for a second term. I finally realized, after voting for 46 years, that voting only encourages them. Don’t be an enabler.
Portsmouth NH is well within commuting distance of Boston, TAXachussetts. A lot of the left wing “I am such a liberal” types in Boston managed to make their city into a hell hole, so they moved up to Portsmouth to avoid the taxes that they insisted were so necessary.
Taxes for YOU are necessary. Taxes for the left wingers who voted for those taxes are somehow unreasonable.
When I visited a couple years ago, the people of Portsmouth made sure the tax-and-spend types knew they were unwelcome. Bars in Portsmouth displayed signs telling the Mass-holes to go back to Boston. I had lunch at a burger and micro-brew pub in the middle of Portsmouth, and the waitress first talked with me to make sure I didn’t have a Boston accent. Yes, the long time residents were not joking around. My accent gave away that I am not from Boston (not even close) and I told the waitress I was visiting a customer who had lived in NH his entire life.
Enough Mass-holes had moved into the Portsmouth area that they were driving up the cost of living for lifetime residents. The Boston transplants were demanding all sorts of city services which, if added, would drive up taxes. Housing prices near the highway and near the train station shot up. Cable TV and internet costs skyrocketed because the Mass-holes wanted high speed internet to telecommute. Food prices went up as the Mass-holes refused to eat local foods (they wanted expensive imports like they were used to in Boston).
So there was a huge push among native Portsmouth residents to make the Mass-holes unwelcome. My waitress had lived in Portsmouth her entire life, and was not going to be forced to move without a fight.
Not saying Mish is the Chicago equivalent of a Mass-hole. But the majority of Chicagoans are… and they should stay put and enjoy the utopia they voted for
Also only 5 hrs from Sedona
Here’s Monument Valley
Looking at Utah also. What part of southern Utah?
St George
People are on the left because while they would resent being robbed by their neighbour, they are more than happy to get the government to do it for them without a twinge of conscience.
For decades, the majority of dim-wits in IL voted for bigger government, bigger corruption, and higher taxes. They got exactly what they voted for.
Hopefully they will stay in IL and enjoy the results of how they voted. Do not come to other states, vote like F’ing morons, and then complain that YOU screwed up more places. Just stay in Chicago and enjoy shooting each other — you with the strictest gun laws but least effective school system.
I don’t know how much Mish voted with the majority of IL… but the majority of IL needs to stay put and pay LOTS more. You voted for it, you pay.
Mish lives in a predominantly Republican county, although it has been getting less conservative as the urban sprawl moves in.
It might be instructive to review the case of the city of Central falls, RI. RI is a heavily taxed state, and even with that many of its cities are in terrible shape.The little (less than 0.9 sq. miles) city was beset with corruption and lost population for decades…it also is a major drug distribution point for SW New England (the RISP has a whole group just watching the Central Falls rackets). The city went bankrupt around 12 years ago-there was simply no way to fund the retired police/fireman’s pensions. The state appointed a receiver, who cut all the pensions by 50%. A lot of wailing and crying-but this is what HAS TO BE DONE! This has to happen in Illinois, or the economy will completely collapse. Meanwhile, Chicago drains the coffers-and the crooked gang that runs it is banking on a Federal “bailout”-not happening under Trump!
But, that won’t happen in Illinois because the problem starts at the top. Instead they will guarantee that the pensions are paid, even if they crush the state. I passed through Illinois a couple times this year, and made sure to spend even a penny in the state as I want no part of paying their pensions.
Illinois has a little known way of encouraging people to leave: If you collect a state pension, it is reduced if you take another job in IL, but no reduction if you move to another state and continue working.
Mish, you did not mention Monument Valley, one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. link to en.wikipedia.org Great place to visit and photograph but I wouldn’t want to live there. Most parts of Utah are really nice except the desert parts.
Before the Utahans welcome him too much, I remember when Mish wrote about supporting magazine bans. He saw no reason to allow people to have 30 rd mags. If he moved into my area, he would not be welcome. Sorry Mish, we dont forget things like this.
Mish… St. George I would assume? I live in Salt Lake City but I’m in Southern Utah quite frequently. Welcome! Given your passion for photography it would be difficult to find a better relocation destination.
Utah’s climate is to dry and where is the nearest synagogue??
I caused the NY population to drop.
Starring Kurt Russel as Mish Shedlock.
Wow, and I thought council tax in the UK was bad! $15k tax on a $400k property must be more than a typical mortgage. Is 25 years you’d lose more than the value of the property, that’s crazy
You’ll need to become a member of the United Precious Metals Association (headquartered in Alpine, Utah) and get some of those new Goldback bills.
link to youtu.be
A place like southern Utah would be high on my list of final homes.
Well thank god Kansas sucks so I wont have to worry about even more population growth. Thing that blows me away are the number of mexicans here. What, you were living in Mexico and said “i’m leaving, traveling 1000’s of miles, probably without papers and landing in Kansas”?????
I feel your pain. Coastal Delaware is filling with retired bureaucrats, who the locals hate. Can I trade a hundred thousand crats for your Mexicans?
Congratulations Mish!
Well, considering those propertytaxes, wouldn’t it be wiser to sell the house, instead of renting it out, Mish? Also, it would give you closure.
Bloody good decision moving to St. George. I spent a week in April crossing S. Utah and hit 6 NPs and one SP. All the NPs you hit on your trip.
St George was the gem of the area. Moab had so much potential but is like a bro’ ski town. Great for the youngsters but not a hit for us old farts.
It is definitely a place I’d think of moving.
The dry air is also a big plus over IL.
“We pay close to $15,000 a year in property taxes on a home worth about $400,000.”
My Dad’s house in Rockville, Md (which will be on the market soon) is valued at about $600k but the property taxes are only about $8000 – in a DC suburb near an HHS building with over 10k employees (ultra-‘liberal’ area).
Our property taxes in Chandler, AZ were about $1700/yr on a $360k house.
My new home in Norman, OK cost me $120k. The property taxes are about $450 annually. However, I am paying $1400/yr for hazard insurance.
I assume by “hazard” you mean “tornado”. No place is perfect. Where I live here in West/Central FL the property taxes are reasonable, cost of living generally moderate and we haven’t taken a direct hit from a hurricane since 1964. But we do have 5 months of brutal heat/humidity. No place is perfect!
I have a $600k home in Rockville and only pay about $4k/yr. It’s homesteaded, but I don’t think it will cap at over $6k. I don’t actually live in the city limits, so I don’t pay city taxes.
“North Rim Grand Canyon, Bryce, Glen Canyon, Great Basin National Parks just 2-3 hours away
Zion National Park about 40 minutes away
Capital Reef National 3 hours away
Death Valley National Park 4 hours
Arches and Caynonlands National Parks 5 hours
Joshua Tree National Park 6 hours
Mono Lake 6.5 hours”
Don’t forget Monument Valley on the border with AZ.
I would invite you to come to Montana, but we’re trying to stop all in-migration from states run by Democrats. Seems the people from these states actually expect government to solve their problems. Just kidding Mish. You would be welcome. Try Bozeman.
No, you had it right. After they get done trashing their first home-states, blue-state locusts set upon low-tax states and transform them into the social-welfare hell-holes they left behind.
It’s great if your focus is on outdoor activities regardless of season. There is snow in southern Utah and hot summers. Otherwise it is cable TV, internet and early-bird specials. Becoming LDS would a big plus, for you and be prepared for most things to be closed on a Sunday..
I wonder what the waterfall moment is going to look like.
Reality check to Mish’s Fake News: Illinois is not socialist any more than Bernie Sanders is and if you don’t get that I strongly suggest you up the meaning of the word. Let’s be reality based – Illinois is simply on the front line of the consequences of the Feds policy of interest rate suppression due to its better retirement programs. We will all experience what Illinois is to varying degrees and it’s NOTHING to do will socialism and everything to do with Fed policy of stealing from retirement savings.
Remember Lot’s wife. Sell (maybe with some rentback) NOW!.
I’m in Wyoming. 4% Sales tax, 0% income tax, See above map. They have high vehicle registration fees, not so high Fuel taxes and a few other things (Montana has zero sales taxes most places, just sayin’ that Vancouver WA is a great Tax arbitrage…). Utah is also nice. In this area of the country you don’t have to worry if you haven’t locked your door (varys a bit, but burglaries make the front page of the local paper even when they aren’t “lead poisoned” by the owner or neighbors).
Just do take efforts given the distance to prevent Californication. Let the locusts stay in their sidewalk waste hole.
Very sad…
Congrats though on your escape plan. Utah is great. You mentioned the great state parks. Snow Canyon is one of my favorite!