Excellent Audio Discussion on How Much Biden Overreached on his Vaccine Mandate

Megyn Kelly Show 

Starting at about the 12 minute mark of this legal discussion Biden’s Vaccine Mandate Shannen Coffin, former counsel to VP Dick Cheney, and Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, discuss the legality of Biden’s new workplace vaccine mandate.

Partial Transcript

Coffin: Biden is being advised by some people, look, do it. If it’s unconstitutional the courts will strike it, at least in the meantime we will have gotten the results that we wanted.

The Constitution: Presidents make an oath to support it. Legislatures do, members of the executive do, you can’t just willy-nilly violate the constitution and then just say leave it to the courts.  

Hard cases make bad law, and in this case it’s bad law.

There’s a discussion of what states can do, OSHA can do, Congress can do, and the President can do. 

Megyn Kelley: Twice now, at least Biden’s flaunted it.

That’s how I saw things in Biden to Force Employers of 100+ Employees to Require Vaccinations or Weekly Tests

Is This Executive Order Constitutional?

I highly doubt it, but it is a decision corporations can make on their own. Biden’s eviction mandate was unconstitutional as well and already went down in flames.

But neither party cares about such things these days. Look no further than the Clearly Unconstitutional Texas Anti-Abortion Bill.

Expect the Texas hypocrites to scream the loudest. But don’t forget the Democrat hypocrites who got upset with overturned Trumpian mandates.

Of course, two wrongs do not make a right nor do infinite wrongs make infinite rights.

So here we are.

The bottom line is hypocrites on both side do not give a damn about the Constitution, rule of order, or precedent. 

Mish

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Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

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CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
The fight begins WaPo “A hospital stopped delivering babies after staffers resigned over coronavirus vaccine mandate”
As I argued below, the people should quit (or strike) and go into a sabbatical leave but try to collect unemployment benefits as unemployed.
This is what the liberals always dreamed of. To be free to think, to learn new skills, to meditate, to find the inner wellness…. Let’s see who wins this fight. BTW, England drops the Covid passports to be used for controlling the access. And the reason is it is a human right violation and their Parliament could not find a compromise.
What I think is the solution….. TESTING. All doctors (vaccinated or not) MUST be regularly tested as they could be infected and transmit the disease to a sick / fragile patient.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
From a cardiologist friend of the wife:
People choose what hill they want to die on. This is just reality. What follows is a true story that these days is all too common.

The other day, I saw this young person in the emergency room. No real medical history. Positive for COVID-19. Around my age. They were having a heart attack.

Intubated with intermittent chest compressions on and off in progress, they came to the cath lab where I worked tirelessly on them for what seemed like hours. Tried every possible thing I knew and had been trained to do. But ultimately, it was not to be. It was their time, and God was calling them home.

The next moments were kind of a blur. Someone asked me if I’d like for them to go tell the family. I said no. It’s my responsibility. Just comes with the job. And we all know it’s the worst part.

I walked slowly to the waiting room. It’s never easy. It’s always hard…this…this was so much harder.

I introduced myself to the parents who looked to be around my mom’s age, to the spouse who was younger than I was. They said the rest of the family was still down in the ER…the kids…their young kids…also in the ER.

I remember sort of this look of hope in their eyes. Hope for good news. I took a deep breath.

“We did everything we could…but their heart wasn’t strong enough…they died…I’m so…”

I stood there as they screamed.

It’s true what they say. Many of you have probably experienced this. People really do scream, “Why didn’t they just get the vaccineeeee.” Not the first time I’d heard this. Definitely won’t be the last.

I search for words, trying to find something, anything to say. Come on. Think! You’ve done this before…but words I could not find…

I place my hand on the parent’s shoulder. The masked nurse hugs the spouse as they collapse into hysterical sobbing, and their world changes forever.

When it’s over…I walk back out to the hospital wards…there’s no time to process the trauma right now. I knock on the next hospital room door…because I’ve still got several hours left. And there are other sick people that need help.

People pick and choose what they want to hear…where they want to make a stand.

Listen to me. People may not trust the government. Maybe they are skeptical of the news or even doctors. Most of us get it. But all of us, doctors and nurses and all the other healthcare workers out there, continue to live through this nightmare.

For our part, we have to keep telling our patients to get the vaccine. We tell them because it works. We tell them even if they get the virus after the vaccine, they are less likely to be seriously ill. We tell because this virus has done things to people, young and old, that we’ve never seen before and weren’t even aware was possible on such a global scale. Because I don’t want to keep telling people their mom or dad or husband or wife or kid died from something preventable.

Keep fighting the good fight friends.

#GetVaccinated

CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
The likelihood of an entire family being in ER, adults and kids is ZERO. The above text is a lie, a false propaganda. Stupid propaganda.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Sad to say it wasnt. These are not made up stories by doctors. Go on believing what you want but do me a favor and give all hospitals  a break and dont ever go near one again no matter how sick you get. You dont deserve a hospital bed in this life.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
It is a lie. Trust me, not that silly fake news spreader.
Stop skying, drinking, smoking, getting high because you could get hurt and occupy a hospital bed. Flu season always overcrowd hospitals. In the 2017-18, there were close to 1 million people hospitalized in the US (see the CDC data).
Of course I deserve a hospital bed because I leave a healthy life. A boost my immune system, a get into nature, sun.
And especially I know how to not get infected with flu and coronaviruses. It is easy, you know. Just hygiene, as CDC recommends. Personal hygiene, washing hands, face and nose/mouth cleansing will remove the pathogen agents that you pick from the air. Wear a mask in crowded spaces and keep distance. Did not catch a flu in the last 15-20 years.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
You will die soon.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Hey Nutty Observer, it is not appropriate to switch hats so quickly, from being objective, informative, hard cold data-driven, to being sarcastic.
“you will die soon”.
You either said that ironically, in a troll specific language…. OR, you really believe it.
In this latter case, I would like to inform you the Covid disease is just a bit more deadly than flu, and no, not 10 times worse. Past are those times in early 2020 when medical authorities feared 1% or even more mortality rate. I believed them at that time as information was scarce. Not anymore, the REAL SCIENCE gathered real data and we can now objectively compare the IFR (infection fatality rate) based on seroprevalence surveys to that of flu stated by Fauci the God to be 0.1%. I will refer to my preferred source for statistical analysis John P A Ioannidis here link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
I found that enlightening. Covid is a mere 2..3 times worse than flu for general population. Who would not want to be enlighten by science? Is not this the ultimate goal of liberals? Who would want to control the population by fear and ignorance?
Or maybe, Observer does not believe in CDC’s advice about hygiene, distance, mask. Well, on the topic of the hygiene role in preventing / stopping infections, there is a significant series of studies done by Asian researchers in the followup of the SARS outbreak in Asia in the 2000s. Very sweet to read and be enlighten. They studied nasal and oral mucosal cleaning in preventing viral infections, with control groups, .. very interesting. You can find all the resources in the most important medical publications. I was left with this conclusion that proper hygiene habit for a normal person (not one that enters heavy contaminated places …. say a doctor entering a contagious hospital section) are quite equivalent to a VE (vaccine effectiveness) of 40% as indicated by Israel. Combine that with mask or avoiding crowded places and I AM AS SAFE as vaccinated. With no ugly side effects caused by vaccine.
Yes, some workforce should take this experimental immune therapy (that has vaccination-like effects), e.g. those that are paid to enter highly contagious places. For me, I rather wait for several years for this extremely new technology to mature. I will wait for 3rd generation that WILL GUARANTEE that the genetic material that carries the information STAYS at the injection site. And the key to that is for the lipids granules to be glued together in contact with the human plasma. When such guarantees will be given, I will take the shot. Otherwise, I will not take the chance for such an infectious material to be diffused randomly in my body in various organs.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
GTF off the forum, troll. Stay off.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
And leave you and your casual liberal brainwashed army to disseminate misinformation waves?
NullusTutela
NullusTutela
2 years ago
What’s the percentage of healthcare workers who did not/won’t get the vaccine?
Why would a government or people want all of their critical skills workers (military, police, medical, engineers, etc, etc) to get a vaccine in which the long term effects are completely unknown?   What if in 5-10 years a large percentage of them come down with some deadly disease?
The mandate is stupid on a risking reason level, and is morally evil.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  NullusTutela
When it comes to risk assessment, you are an abject failure. Hope you don’t pay with your life.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“For our part, we have to keep telling our patients to get the vaccine. We tell them because it works.”
It is obvious to me that Ivermectin works. It would keep a lot of people with Covid, out of the hospital and cut down on the hospital staff’s burden. But the Public Health agencies don’t care. They are under the regulatory capture of the Big Pharma companies. That’s why hospital patients will be treated with Remdesivir, a drug that the WHO says does not work. Big Pharma is more important than the patients life.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Because Quanta is full of BS and rather uneducated, I will explain him/her and others what is the meaning of Biden’s protection of the vaccinated in his speech.
The text is fully presented by White House. I will refer only to that segment.
“The second piece of my plan is continuing to protect the vaccinated.
For the vast majority of you who have gotten vaccinated, I understand your anger at those who haven’t gotten vaccinated.  I understand the anxiety about getting a “breakthrough” case.
But as the science makes clear, if you’re fully vaccinated, you’re highly protected from severe illness, even if you get COVID-19.  
In fact, recent data indicates there is only one confirmed positive case per 5,000 fully vaccinated Americans per day.
You’re as safe as possible, and we’re doing everything we can to keep it that way — keep it that way, keep you safe.
That’s where boosters come in — the shots that give you even more protection than after your second shot.”
>> In the above fragment, Biden makes all the possible verbal guarantees that the vaccinated HAVE NOTHING to be afraid of when it comes to the virus. If the protection wanes, the boosters will be injected in all the vaccinated. For the record, Israel has started EXPIRING the Green Pass after 6 months from the last dose. I’m not saying this will be done in US, too…. but it is a possibility.
“That’s nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated.  And in a country as large as ours, that’s 25 percent minority.  That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage — and they are.
The unvaccinated overcrowd our hospitals, are overrunning the emergency rooms and intensive care units, leaving no room for someone with a heart attack, or pancreitis [pancreatitis], or cancer.”
>> Here Biden clearly spells the reason for mandating the vaccination to 25% of the population. What is more to explain? The language is clear. There are not enough hospital beds. And they are expensive. Again, hundreds of millions spent on military (no problem here too for me, I own Raytheon shares) and not enough beds in hospitals.
“The bottom line: We’re going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers.”
I hope now that everyone understood what Biden wants to protect. He does not have enough hospital beds after 1.5 years and 4 waves.
PS: If someone is interested in links in support of any of my statements, please ask.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Getting an effective vaccine is cheaper and faster and more effective than building new hospitals.  Your argument is idiotic and dumb.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
How much money was spent by Gov on vaccines? How many billions? As you will know, hospitals are always kept overcrowded due to lack of money. Here are more details:
” It’s true that hospitals typically staff at or near their maximum capacity of staffed beds in order to save resources. But prior to the coronavirus pandemic, that was by design – not out of necessity.”
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Always kept overcrowded?  You are truly an idiot. By the way 1 hospital costs several hundred million dollars if you want something that is actually a hospital. The vaccine was still way cheaper than building about 20 hospitals. A hospital takes about 5-7 YEARS  to build in the US. You are better off moving to China if you want more hospitals. It would suit you well.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Stop insulting people if you are so stupid not to be able to read what USA Today declares as a conclusion to the factcheck. Are you illiterate? If so, I’m sorry. You should have open the article, it says that not material, space is what limits the “beds” but the human servicing those “beds”. The nurses, for instance.
So, the Government, in a pandemic, could not and would not increase the hospital beds of the Nation. This is very inspiring for someone that would attack US as it seems the Great USA cannot find the nurses to sustain a war.
NullusTutela
NullusTutela
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
If the vaccine works, there’s zero reason to protect themselves who took it.
Mutations will occur, regardless of how many are vaccinated with a vaccine that does not work at stopping transmission or re-infection.
Anyone who claims they are doing so to “protect others” is simply lying.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  NullusTutela
Utter bullshit. Get off the forum, troll.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Like Biden, I have run out of patience. I commend him for doing what he can. To the unvaccinated I say stay home and try whatever quack therapies you want. I dont care if you die.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Drama queen.
Those quack therapies have efficacy against Covid.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
GFY with them. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
My oh my.
Good luck with the potential adverse reactions to the Covaxxines.  I don’t have to worry about those.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Dont come to hospital ever again. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
I intend not to. Do you know how many people die from infections, as a patient every year?
Remdesivir doesn’t work, according to the WHO, and that is the only treatment allowed for Covid other than  dexamethasone and supplemental oxygen or a ventilator, under the PREP Act. Those are the treatments that indemnify the hospital from any damage to the patient, caused by their use. I would stay out of the hospital, if i were you. The PREP ACT protects the hospital, not the patient.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
And likewise Cas.
“I don’t care what you think about me. I don’t think about you at all.”
–Coco Chanel
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The fact you responded says you read and thought about my comment. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Well sure but the quote sounded neat.  I do think about your posts whenever I see then – I think how can someone be so thick-headed & dumb?
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Good answer.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
“The bottom line is hypocrites on both side do not give a damn about the Constitution, rule of order, or precedent. “
Constitution???? How quaint! We’ve been worse than even nominally communist China, wrt the arbitrariness of tour otalitarian government, for decades already. And the freedom gap in their favor is only increasing…
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Funny how the “science” doesn’t apply to organizations with less than 100 people. Or the Postal service. Or the Judicial branch. Or the Legislative branch? I guess when they say they are “following the science” they always leave out the adjective, “political”.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Nobody should comply. The exemptions to forced medical acts are religious or medical based. Not political. Biden should be impeached for this order.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago

I am sure that OSHA can come down hard on small proprietary
businesses because over them they have total power like the IRS. A large
corporation on the other hand has different venues to make its concerns heard
and influence the politicians who pull the strings of agencies such as OSHA.
Biden’s gambit is an attempt to address a big problem for large companies in
this environment. There is a division between companies who want to vaccinate
(or say so) all their employees and those who don’t. The companies who insist
on vaccinations are losing employees and potential employees to those who do
not. It’s a type of brain drain. It’s a problem for their regular employees but
especially for keeping and attracting key employees. Large corporations have definitely
given calls to Biden’s people to tell them, gently of course, that they as big
companies have a big problem and they want Biden to fix it. The obvious
solution for Biden’s team was to apply vaccination on everybody knowing full
well that it will be struck down in the courts but what they gained and which
corporations gained was time. The large companies thanks to Biden were able to
reestablish a level playing field for finding and keeping employees but at a
great political cost which will blow up in the near future in my opinion.

I am not making a value judgement on the medical aspect but
only on the practical problems big companies would have at this time and the
way they would navigate the complicated relationship among their clients, their
workforce, the medical situation and politics.

Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Dunno, OSHA  came down fairly hard on every hospital in the country during HIV…..Not even the biggest ones bought their way out of the blood borne pathogens mandates.
Yes I can see that it was a calculated gambit on Biden’s part, but I think it will stick, and corporations will do what they’re told and get in line pretty fast. OSHA is on record for fining as much as $87 million for one violation. Maybe some businesses can absorb that, but I wouldn’t want to have to explain it to my stockholders, would you?
I really don’t buy that it’s even that much of an imposition on big business, although I can see it would create some temporary hell for management. News flash .COVID is already also creating some hell for management. It’s creating management hell for me, and I’m just a mom & pop on Main Street, USA.
And good luck on any corporation showing evidence that forcing vaccinations does not increase protections for people in the American workforce. It’s a no-brainer, for anybody except some troll on the internet.
Individual freedom, and freedom for businesses to set their own standards, is something that sounds good, but is likely to take a backseat in a true public health emergency. Plague rules apply.
Besides, there is also plenty of precedent for forced vaccinations, even leaving OSHA completely out of it. We require vaccinations by law already in many instances which I could list, and such laws have been repeatedly upheld in court.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T

 Eddie, I do not know
OSHA so I cannot predict what they will do. I do however know the corporate
world and how they would react and this situation. For highly competitive
businesses losing the wrong people can result in a downward spiral and any
thinking manager would want to avoid that. Recently Jeff Bezos’s Blue
Origin has been eviscerated by teams of top talent moving to other companies like
SpaceX and it will be very hard for them to recover. I doubt if it was because
of covid but it is an example of what losing too many key people and teams can
do to a company. Blue Origin has a daddy moneybags behind them but most
companies do not. OSHA can level fines but frankly $87 million is not much of a
deterrent for a large company especially if it takes years of litigation before
having to pay it.

Forced vaccinations do have a precedent and I am not a
lawyer but as I have said in a former comment that the same reasoning will be
used to impose any vaccine or measures whatever the Executive branch decides it without the
impute of the legislative branch. Eighteen months ago emergency measures were
justified. Are extreme emergency measures justified today? That gives me pause. 

Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Suggest you go to my post from Jonathan Turley and read the link I posted + the comments attached.  The legal issues of using OSHA are well discussed.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I already read it and found it useful. I always read Turley.
Cocoa
Cocoa
2 years ago
They pledged an oath to something they don’t give a crap about.
numike
numike
2 years ago
US COVID-19 vaccine mandates met with mixed response link to cidrap.umn.edu
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  numike
And the point is?  What do you want people to take from the article?
numike
numike
2 years ago
Here is why the Biden mandate is correct Michael Hiltzik, LA Times link to latimes.com
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  numike
I don’t care what some biased opinion piece in the L.A. Times says.
“Research conducted by the University of California has found that teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems caused by the COVID-19 vaccine than to be hospitalized as a result of COVID-19 itself.
Researchers found that the risk of heart complications for boys aged 12-15 following the vaccine was 162.2 per million, which was the highest out of all the groups they looked at. This compares to the risk of a healthy boy being hospitalized as a result of a COVID infection, which is around 26.7 per million, meaning the risk they face from the vaccine is 6.1 times higher.”
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  numike
Hiltzik is a known CDC tool.
Curious-Cat
Curious-Cat
2 years ago
Hmmm… remember Dicken’s quote regarding the law. “The law is an a– … an idiot.” I find it interesting that we have become so sanitized and righteous that the wording of a famous quote gets censored off this site. Apparently the word in that quote is more dangerous than a condition that has killed 750,000 Americans. We’ve clearly lost our minds.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  Curious-Cat
…you forgot to add ALLEGEDLY… ‘a condition that ALLEGEDLY has killed 750K Americans’ !  A number  blown up beyond proportions for fn financial, political and most recently dictatorial motives !  
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
How about calling it a condition that has killed a million people? We all know that when you try to count things, any things, you invariably miss some, and end up with an undercount. The official death toll will come from excess deaths, not from the counts anyway. Excess deaths is how the death toll has been computed for every other pandemic in history, and how it is done for the flu every year. Covid will be no different. The counts are for trend tracking only, not for determining the total death totals.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
when hospitals get paid 30 or 40K $ incentives for reporting Covid deaths what do you think will happen ??
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
When it costs long term care facilities clients if it comes out that they have Covid, what do you think will happen? When someone dies at home, untested, do you think they will do an autopsy?
I’m just telling you how it has always been done, and how it will be done this time. The final death toll will be adjusted upwards to match excess deaths.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Curious-Cat
The CDC states that 375k people died of Covid in 2020.  At a 660k total, that means we have lost 285k so far, despite the vaccine push.  I wonder how many of that 285k have been fully vaxxed?  And wouldn’t it be interesting to lose more than in 2020, despite the vaccines?
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Thanks to Mish pointing this podcast series, I listen to this one “COVID Truth on Fauci, Vaccines, and Masks, with Sen. Rand Paul, David Zweig, and Dr. Vinay Prasad | Ep. 156”
And David Zweig, as a freelance journalist he has written for The Atlantic, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal, among other publications. He says (min 54:54):
“There is a fair amount of dissent in medical and public health communities to what is being messaged BUT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO SPEAK OUT.
From the beginning I had doctors, epidemiologists, and others reach out to me saying “thank you for writing that article, I really disagree with what is going on” but they won’t talk on the record.
I had a long list of people who I talk to on regular basis and either they are EXPLICITLY told, if you are at a university hospital and the chair of your department says “you are not doing it, don’t speak out against the guidance [from CDC]”, or implicitly, if you are a doctor, there is a group think and it is a really big thing to speak out against CDC. It is not something that is easy to do.
There is enormous push-back against […] ad-hominem attacks….”
I guess all scientific dissent are Russian trolls, one lunatic would say.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
You are definitely a tr*ll.  Until a couple of days ago you never posted here. Everything you’ve posted is clearly misinformation, and you’re a flaming  *sshole to boot.
Crawl back under your rock.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I caught you with false information, spreading lies.
I told you that between your lies, Mr Kluge head of WHO Europe, and dr Sir Andrew Pollard, head of Oxford Vaccine group (that created Astrazeneca vaccine), I trust the latter two. You are just propaganda, hiding important facts/data.
Look, other trolls… Are scientists from UK, part  of the Vaccine Advisory panel.
“Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19, a major study has found “
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
You’ve done nothing but lie here….shoo, get off the forum, troll. Your comments are worthless. My long term commentariat here speaks for itself, and readers know that I’m a real dentist in a real office with real patients whom I have to protect and serve.
You are either an idiot or a malicious troll, or both.
Piss off.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
If you are so upset with him, then “ignore” him and his posts will disappear for you.  I’ve done that with Realist and Percunia or whatever his handle is.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Maybe he s a troll, but then again the whole fn CNN staff is one big troll!  The vaxxine fraud will soon turn out to be the biggest medical FRAUD ever, no doubt about it !   In the meantime I suggest you get a vaxxine vial, light candles around it, and worship the experimental concoction as if your life depended on it! … Well, it does actually, does it not ?
NullusTutela
NullusTutela
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
You sound like a vaxhole.
NullusTutela
NullusTutela
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Those professionals who don’t speak out are no different than Germans who remained silent during the rise of Hitler.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
“I highly doubt it, but it is a decision corporations can make on their own. Biden’s eviction mandate was unconstitutional as well and already went down in flames.”
Not the same at all, and here is why. OSHA has a very broad mandate to protect American  workers, and they have been able to dictate hard and fast policies designed to prevent infections of healthcare workers and other at-risk individuals in American workplaces for a long time.
Anybody who deals with OSHA can tell you that if they issue a guideline you’d better figure out how to adhere to it because they’re like the IRS in that they incentivize their inspectors financially to levy what can be huge fines to achieve compliance. 
Those of us who experienced the  HIV epidemic  and were brought into compliance afterward with the CDC’s bloodborne pathogens guidelines in ’93, can tell you from experience…… that wrapped in the mandate of protecting the workplace, OSHA can trump any state law, and they can break any business that fails to comply.
I seriously doubt the US Supreme Court is going to do anything that might in hindsight be shown to have endangered workers unnecessarily or even gone against the mainline thinking in the bureaucratic arm of our healthcare system. This is definitely such a case.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“OSHA has a very broad mandate to protect American  workers…”
So why is OSHA allowing employers to not report injuries caused to their employees, by the Covaxxines?
Hiding the truth does not protect American workers. In fact it prevents informed consent. The workers have the right to know the danger of having the spike protein pathogen injected into their arm.
The government agencies are corrupt. I will not listen to these agencies any more.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
In June OSHA was instructed NOT to keep records of injuries suffered by people from the Covid vaccination.
Despite everything they’re telling you about careful monitoring, everything is being done to silence the victims, and discussion is limited to post-vaccine syndromes which simply cannot be denied.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Do you have a reference link for this?
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
p. 48
OSHA shall not cite for failure to comply with § 29 CFR 1904.5
and § 29 CFR 1904.7 mandates requiring employers to record
worker side effects from a COVID-19 vaccination through May
2022.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
OSHA’s guidance addresses this question and conclusively states that employers do not have to report any vaccine side effects through May 2022
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Politicians and their advisors have been looking for workarounds  to the Constitution, probably as long as there has been a constitution. Ditto for state constitutions. John Mitchell, former Attorney-General in the Nixon administration, came up with the idea of a moral obligation bond in his capacity as an advisor to the State of New York in the 1960’s, as a workaround to the state’s constitution which required voter approval for tax supported debt (general obligation bonds). His handiwork was soon copied by the State of California and by many of its political subdivisions. A compliant California Supreme went along with the idea.  
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
A C.D.C. study found unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die if infected. link to nytimes.com
Dr. Odyssey
Dr. Odyssey
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
And to make the discussion even more complicated.
The delta variant was 27 times more likely to break through Pfizer protection from January-February and cause symptoms than it was to penetrate natural immunity from the same period
1 in 4 COVID patients hospitalized while vitamin D deficient die – Israeli study.
Among those without Vitamine D deficiency who are hospitalized, only 3% die; patients with insufficient D are also 14 times likelier to end up in severe or critical condition, research shows
This WSJ article discusses mucosal immunity vs. internal immunity. The author states that while vaccines stimulate internal immunity, they do nothing to address mucosal immunity. The viruses don’t penetrate the host’s organs, which is why most vaccinated people don’t get really sick. But, the viruses still live and reproduce in mucus-lined mouths and nasal passages. That is why vaccinated people with no symptoms are spreading Covid. However, those that have recovered have both mucosal and internal immunity.
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Odyssey
Thank you for sharing what you’ve found! The CDC clearly abandoned any serious analysis of what is going on over pushing it’s policies and covering for past decisions.
What’s happening in Israel is the real deal.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Those over 60 years of age are 10x as like to die from COVID as those 20 to 59 years of age. Deaths and serious medical damage due to vaccines have damaged younger people disproportionately. The best policy is to make vaccines available to those who want them instead of mandating probabilistic death/damage.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Yes, the paper is here. link to cdc.gov
And it says
“Averaged weekly, age-standardized rates (events per 100,000 persons) were higher among persons not fully vaccinated than among fully vaccinated persons for reported cases (112.3 versus 10.1), hospitalizations (9.1 versus 0.7), and deaths (1.6 versus 0.1) during April 4–June 19, as well as during June 20–July 17 (89.1 versus 19.4; 7.0 versus 0.7; 1.1 versus 0.1, respectively)”
In the monitoring period of Delta infections, the deaths of unvaccinated decreased from 1.6 events per 100 000 persons to 1.1 events. This is a bombshell…. All the parameters have actually reduced. The severity of Delta seems to be dropping for unvaccinated compared to prior circulating variant. But we should wait for the peak week to be included in the study. It was not.
And the 11 times comes from comparing 1.1 deaths / 100 000 people in unvaxed to 0.1 deaths / 100 000 people in vaxed. All in a week.
This is one of the known tricks to boost the impressiveness of the vaccine. You do not show the real absolute performance, but you compare it to something else, as small as the thing you want to highlight. But let’s look at how appropriate is the vaccine mandate for this Covid as it is today in 2021. Based on CDC’s data, we can project between 50 and 60 deaths / 100 000 in a year.
And we do not count/ nor include the deaths/severe health issues caused by vaccines.
In 2019:
Heart disease: 161 deaths/100 000
Cancer: 146
Accidents: 50
Stroke: 38
Respiratory disease: 38
In 2021, Covid has the same fatality for the society as the accidents, and way lower than cancer and heart diseases. And yet, Biden does not mandate quitting smoking, quitting alcohol, reducing the car speed to 20 mph in cities, mandating train travel, mandating exercising and walk to the store instead of driving, etc. So, just to put things into context.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
“A C.D.C. study found unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die if infected.”
That is because the protocol of most medical groups is NO early outpatient treatment.
Robert W Malone, MD
@RWMaloneMD
“For those that don’t know, Peru did a massive campaign with ivermectin in last half of 2020. The mortality dropped 14 fold over 3 months.
A new president came in – and stopped the campaign. And deaths rose 13 fold over the next month.”
If people aren’t given early treatment, it is no wonder that unvaccinated would die at such a rate. But that is not the fault of the unvaxxed, that is the fault of the public health agencies, which have an agenda that is not about protecting people’s health.
Dr. Zelenko gave 405 high risk patients early outpatient treatment and kept all but 4 out of the hospital.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
The CDC considers unvaxxed people to be represented by the set of those who have not received ANY mRNA/DNA shots + those who have received one shot+those who have received both shots BUT have not had at least 2 weeks of time passed after the 2nd shot (there has been talk by Fauci that this 2 week post 2nd shot number should be increased to 8 weeks!).
So you see that what the CDC considers unvaxxed may not be what the normal person considers.  Unvaxxed may not actually be “unvaxxed”. 
Sort of the same with how the BLS computes unemployment numbers.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Mish, thanks for the show. I think you got the character wrong in the article. It is Alan Dershowitz who said that quote. It is minute 12:20 in the podcast.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
For those of you, even doctors, that fight against the science that says that vaccinated can actually boost the infectiousness of the variants, read this:
“The effects
of the single additional mutations were slightly different depending on the individuals, although
infection was completely blocked at the highest concentration of the serum. Next, we analyzed the
Delta 4+ pseudovirus with four additional RBD mutations (Figure 6C). Surprisingly, most
BNT162b2-immune sera enhanced infectivity of the Delta 4+ pseudovirus in a dose-dependent
manner at relatively low concentrations of BNT162b2-immune sera, but showed weak
neutralization only at the highest concentration of the sera (Figure 6D and 6E). Especially, PFZ7
greatly enhanced the infectivity at relatively low serum concentration. Some sera, such as PFZ13
and PFZ14, did not show neutralizing activity even at the highest concentration of the sera.”
It is a very detailed research of a Japanese team of scientists. They experimented in the quote above with the sera from Pfizer vaccinated individuals. And they noticed that in a SARS-CoV-2 variant called Delta 4+, the infectiousness of the virus was ENHANCED by the relatively low concentrations of antibodies. But managed to neutralize the virus at the highest concentrations….. Thus, here you have the need for booster shots to maintain that highest concentration in the body.
Dr. Odyssey
Dr. Odyssey
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
How many and how often?
Are their risks of eventual collateral effects?
‘This is our life from now on’: Top Israel doctor warns population to get ready for fourth vaccine shot.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
More cherrypicked, misleading  BS. Why don’t you crawl back under your rock, tr*ll?
El_Tedo
El_Tedo
2 years ago
Mish can’t help but slip this Texas  non sequitur every time his criticizes Biden’s NAZI mandates. (‘See progressives, I’m not one of them’ ). Reminds me of Bill Maher or Joe Rogan, two progressives who from time to time do see things very clearly, but always slip back into their leftist ways because they’re so culturally attached to the left. and, even in those times when they do see things correctly, they always have to make some dig at the right just to prove their leftist credentials.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Another take on the legal side from Jonathan Turley who has a good blog on legal issues in the news.
———
September 10, 2021
Admission Against Interest: White House Chief of Staff Admits Vaccine Mandate is a “Work Around” the Constitutional Objections
Jonathan Turley
In the law, it is called an admission against interest or an out-of-court statement by a party that, when uttered, is against the party’s pecuniary, proprietary, or penal interests. In politics, it is called just dumb. White House chief of staff Ronald Klain offered a doozy this week when he admitted that the announced use of the authority of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for a vaccine mandate was a mere “work around” of the constitutional limit imposed on the federal government. The problem is that the thing being “worked around” is the Constitution. Courts will now be asked to ignore the admission and uphold a self-admitted evasion of constitutional protections.
….
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
I mistakenly bought into a specious legal argument re the eviction ban. I won’t do that again. The vaccine mandates are BS.

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