President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 9, 2018
Please consider France’s Macron Calls for Creating a ‘European Army’.
French President Emmanuel Macron called for the creation of a “true European army,” issuing a sharp critique of trans-Atlantic security ties days before U.S. President Trump is due to visit France.
Europe’s security ties with the U.S., which have been a bedrock of the continent’s stability for decades, have come under strain as Mr. Trump has demanded more military spending from European members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and questioned the alliance’s benefits for the U.S. Such tensions have led Mr. Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel to publicly question whether the continent can still rely on the U.S. to come to Europe’s defense.
Mr. Macron went a step further by grouping the U.S. among foreign powers he considers a potential threat to the continent. “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,” Mr. Macron said on French radio.
Europe is the “main victim,” Mr. Macron said, of Mr. Trump’s decision to withdraw from the landmark 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. That accord prohibits the use of intermediate- and shorter-range rockets, as well as testing, producing or fielding new ground-based missiles.
“We will not protect the Europeans unless we decide to have a true European army,” Mr. Macron said.
Scary Talk
This is scary talk from Macron.
Europe cannot afford and does not need a “True European Army”.
The US is not going to attack Europe, nor is China, nor is Russia.
If Europe had an army most likely it would use it stupidly, just like the US did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam, etc.
As far as NATO goes, I would be quite happy to see it disbanded.
In regards to Germany specifically and the world in general, the US should pull out all of our troops. If Germany needs defending, let Germany pay for it. The same applies everywhere.
Support the troops. Bring them home and stop meddling where we shouldn’t be in the first place.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
France Wants European Army to Protect Europe from US, China Russia
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Mish
Macron is a dangerous guy ( or mental ill) .
Europe pays 35% of the US military basing costs directly to the US government (around $2.4 billion annually). As a result, it is cheaper for the US to have troops stationed in Germany than back home in the USA. It would be crazy for the US to pull troops out of Europe with these kinds of subsidies.
Amen ti everything Mish said. Let Europe defend themselves for once. If Macron believes we are the enemy of Europe, we should not waste troops or money on the continent. Who are we even defending them against?
We have no more business subsidizing kids college than we do subsidizing Germany protection,,,
When are you Jacks gonna get over UnConstitutional spending..
Sad thing is it’s 100 years since Armistice Day and all the talk is of war machines. Joining France and Germany in arms won’t reduce the chance of war, just shift the geography a little towards new perceived enemies.
I’m beginning to suspect Macron doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions and/or will become some new dictator type without a balance now Merkel is exiting. He wants France to fill an EU leadership void. DANGEROUS.
US military oppression, its 75 years of war mongering; a maximum of a few weeks of world peace in all that time, is a threat to everyone. Under those circumstances a second “western democratic” power having independent military influence in the world would be a good thing. That of course assumes some kind of real democracy survives given the global oligarchy of professional politicians and corporate sponsors.
” real democracy survives given the global oligarchy of professional politicians and corporate sponsors.”
“….global oligarchy of professional politicians and corporate sponsors” are what “real democracy” is. Any other supposed versions, are just naive fantasies.
No different from how Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Chavez is what “real socialism” is. While “other versions”, again, are no more than naive fantasies.
Probably Macron trying to promote France as a military supplier for the EU, and sticking his foot in his mouth while doing so.
It is to boost French arms sales whilst increasing risk of conflict. The money will be largely wasted.
Armies of the future will be used primarily to subdue their own populations, so in that context this move makes plenty of sense. Other than intentionally inefficient foreign boondoggles like Afghanistan and Iraq, military will be used to keep the homeland in line. If and when the ponzi blows, regular people will no longer serve any useful function and will need to be kept in check.
A European army makes even more sense when you realize there are tons of recent immigrants to recruit from. Those people will have fewer qualms about carrying out operations in country. The US has attempted to go this route to some extent too. The high-tech stuff (droning particularly) can be carried out by whomever, since it’s much easier to dehumanize your opponents from behind a computer screen. Throw in some propaganda about how your home population have become “insurgents” and “extremists”, combine that with the rigid top-down hierarchy of the military and you’re on your way.
This is why the US has already paved the way for “civil disturbance” operations on American soil and others probably have similar contingencies in place. The EU isn’t worried about fighting the US, but they are worried about the US being unable/unwilling to help them fight their own people when things get hairy.
We have to feel sorry for the poor Brits — historically, the great enemy of France. Here the Brits are pulling out of the EU, and Macron still does not see them as a potential enemy like the US. That’s when those poor Brits realize history has passed them by.
More seriously, General deGaulle pulled France out of NATO long ago. That is a good lead to follow. The only thing NATO did for the US recently was to get that dumb Obama and dumber Hillary! involved in destabilizing Libya — for no apparent purpose. It is past time to end NATO and bring US forces home.
It makes sense for those bordering the North Atlantic passages to work together, but that’s it. NATO suffered mission creep. Shrink it to the North Atlantic only and off mainland Europe. It has a role, but one with stricter boundaries.
As for the Brits it’s about time we pulled our horns in to that which we can control. The European attitude is partly set by the recent “pact” for the UK to defend Germany.
Strangely UK and Germany are potentially natural allies against a resurgent France wanting to lead and dictate in the EU. The French are desperate to be the #1 go to on all things defence and geopolitical for the Germans and don’t like any cozying up between Germany & UK. Germany/EU is the lifejacket of the French now.
From the US perspective, most sea-borne trade is now Trans-Pacific; keeping the North Atlantic open is not so important. Anyway, if someone started torpedoing ships in the North Atlantic (who? pirates? Russians? Turks?), that would be tantamount to a Declaration of War — and then the Euros would be on their own.
One of the side-effects of todays focus on big issues like transgendered bathrooms is that there is no interest or enthusiasm in the US population for getting involved in another European war. Especially after Billie Clinton’s sorry involvement in Yugoslavia and Hillie Clinton’s disgustingly pointless violence in Libya.
Forget money, Europe can’t even produce soldiers to man an army.
The ancients comprising the “conservative” long tail of the Japanese political spectrum, have increasingly been talking similar nonsense about rebuilding a proper army. Only to look around and realize that the only potential soldiers available to man it, are, literally, the exact same guys who fought in WW2…. Just now 80 years older than they were back when.
France, in particular, may have done a slightly better job of not straight up going extinct than the extreme corner case that is Japan, but Europe as a whole is simply not demographically capable of building, supporting and sustaining a globally meaningful army any more than Japan is. And they won’t be, until their army is part of the Caliphate’s.
Heck, America couldn’t demographically build from scratch, and increasingly can’t demographically support, a world dominant fighting force; was it not for its “failure” to control its Southern border…. Europe??? Fahwgettaboutit!
Didn’t Mattis recently complain that 71% of US males age 18-24 are unfit for military service due to obesity, illiteracy, inability to pass a drug test and felony conviction? Maybe Macron heard him say that.
“If Europe had an army most likely it would use it stupidly, just like the US did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam, etc.”
It will be used to antagonize Russia, leading to confrontation and conflict that goes nuclear in short order leading to the death of many millions.
Neither US nor China need intervene, both can carry on their merry was as others anihilate themselves.
BTW, who would control it and vote for it to go into action against Russia and how long will that take? Russia can decide and act quickly.
No real, as opposed to mere posturing, antagonizing of Russia on Germany’s watch. Russian natural resources and population sparse enough to allow for their extraction without excessive nimbying, is a match made in heaven for Germany’s lack of resources, but world leading ability to add value to them.
If push comes to shove, Germany is a natural ally of Russia. Much more so than it is of France, and the rest of the clownshow that Europe is becoming.
European politics since German unification, have been largely about roping in German industry and riding its coattails. As the rest of the continent again falters in its ability to produce anything anyone else particularly care to pay for, that’s what it will once again be about.
Correct – Germany and Russia are natural allies, and in fact have always been close historically, despite the 20th century exception when they were enemies in WW 1 and WW 2.
Katherine the Great was a German woman – and she actually usurped the throne (to the great relief of most of the Russians at the court – the vast bulk of the Czarist army supported her coup as well). Peter II instituted a policy of inviting German immigrants by the millions, offering them an entire region in Russia for settlement basically for free. German architects were hired to construct St. Petersburg’s famous buildings. The Russian Germans (“Volga Germans”) only started getting shafted under Stalin, who exiled them from the region Czar Peter had allowed them to settle and basically sent them off to Siberia (the final destination for all sorts of undesirables in Russia since time immemorial).
As an aside: Stratfor chief Friedman (I think that’s his name) once conceded in a moment of candor that it is US policy to forestall/ prevent any deeper ties between Germany and Russia from developing, as that would be seen as a potential geopolitical challenge. Without such an alliance, Germany can be easily bossed around. That, so it is reckoned, might change if Germany and Russia were to become close allies.
Thanks! Interesting.
The most obvious difference these days, is that Russians and Germans have both seen fit to join the Japanese in the race towards self imposed extinction. So the resulting alliance looks set to be between Bavarian Syrians and Volga Turks…..
It is a rather silly talk from French President Macron.
Currently – European countries pay little for their own defense. For example, the Germans barely have 300 main battle tanks (MBT) for their entire army. The Pennsylvania National Guard has more MBTs. Even one WWII Panzer Division had more tanks.
Not one European country is going to increase their defense spending to create this European army. No one is going to join it if there is even a slim chance of combat with Russia, America or China (no Italian is going to willingly fight and die to defend Poland or Estonia).
The UK can’t even find enough citizens to join and fill the ranks of their own minuscule army:
For NATO today – America supplies the majority of troops. But America supplies nearly ALL the logistical support and strategic airlift capabilities. France – with their recent “stabilizing” mission to Mali (from islamic insurgents), had to be flown there entirely on American Air Forces cargo planes.
So to summarize:
No funding to create this European Army. No funding to equip this European Army. No will to fight. No way to supply it. No way yo move it.
They will find the money. It’s an important piece of supra-nationalism once you have a flag, anthem, currency, laws and talking shop.
The ability to kill is the missing piece.
It will bring done suffering upon their heads. Not once has Europe been able to defeat Russia in any conflict. If push comes to shove my money is on Russia who will have everything to gain and little to lose if the US umbrella is removed.
Macron is fishing to show France as the leader in the EU and capture any increase in military spending.
Such pride often leads to a fall.
Russia never defeated by a European power in any conflict?
I think you need to Google WWI and the 1920s Soviet invasion of Poland.
I don’t consider all Poland, nor the Baltic states, as European. My own take. Includes Finland too.
Macron is enabling Germany’s quest for European conquest.
Brilliant? They have become pacifists as a result of guilt. They may however be the major dominant economic power as they have learned a lesson from the Weimar Republic days.
France wants to be the “go to” power. It’s their last chance before disappearing “on the exit ramp of history”.
Couldn’t agree more Mish. Macron is touting the EU, 5 Presidents report and to achieve it they need enemies created. They have a market, a flag, and now want armaments to use. They will use them. France would be a major beneficiary due to its large military supplier base.
The EU will be the most threatening of them all.
This talk will lead to future conflict, even the annihilation of entire countries. Nothing has been learnt by the likes of Macron that has never faced an armed conflict in uniform.
Sadly this is at the 100th anniversary of the Great War.