Housing Sellers Drop Asking Price as Demand Slip and Mortgage Payments Rise

Case Shiller Data via St. Louis Fed, chart by Mish

Housing Theory vs. Reality: Where are Home Prices Headed?

Here’s a Tweet thread that caught my eye. 

Robust Balance Sheets 

I agree with some of these ideas and strongly disagree with others. Some are a mixed bag of plusses and minuses. 

Consumer Balance Sheets 

The Tweet chart shows mortgage debt payments as a percent of disposable income. 

That reflects the past, not the present. Housing affordability has plunged, and the Fed has barely started hiking. 

The tweet did not really address overall balance sheets of the marginal buyer. Many people have recently been priced out.

Demographic Winds

The winds are not all in one direction. 

Millennials want to buy, but a huge wave of pending boomer deaths is on the horizon. That will add to housing supply. 

Fed Impact

The biggest mistake is the belief Fed rate hikes have no effect on housing demand if the property is not financed but bought in cash.

Wrong! 

Rate hikes will reduce demand across the board. And across the board means just that. There is no magic set of buyers or sellers who will not be impacted by the overall trends. 

Asking prices are already headed lower.

Demand Slips, Pushing More Sellers to Drop Asking Prices

Redfin reports Housing Market Update: Demand Slips, Pushing More Sellers to Drop Asking Prices

Redfin notes “price drops are climbing at its fastest spring pace since at least 2015, another sign that demand is not meeting sellers’ expectations.

“There really is a limit to homebuyer demand, even though the market over the past few years has made it seem endless,” said Redfin Chief Economist Daryl Fairweather. “The sharp increase in mortgage rates is pushing more homebuyers out of the market, but it also appears to be discouraging some homeowners from selling. With demand and supply both slipping, the market isn’t likely to flip from a seller’s market to a buyer’s market anytime soon.”

Jessica Nutt appears to have a spotlight on the last sentence in the preceding paragraph.

I would emphasize the first sentence. 

Downtrends Start Then Accelerate

In every cycle, prices remain sticky for a while. 

This cycle was certainly not as speculative as the last and the downturn will likely not be as steep.

However, Real Estate Investors Are Buying a Record Share of U.S. Homes.

Investor Share of Housing by Redfin

Jessica Nutt believes this supports home prices. I believe it certainly “did” support home prices. 

Looking ahead, such speculation will need to increase to support home prices. 

Redfin reports “Investors who ‘flip’ homes see potential to turn a big profit as home prices soar.

What happens when prices decline?

Some of this housing demand, including demand for second homes, stems from huge stock market gains. 

What happens to demand, across the board for all assets, not just houses, in a recession?

To find some additional agreement with Jessica Nutt, I do not expect the same housing price collapse as happened 2007-2010, but there is a bubble in assets, and it will pop.

Problem for the Fed

One huge problem for the Fed stems from their own ignorance. The Fed does not view home prices or asset prices in general as part of inflation.

It’s true that homes are not a consumer expense. But resales of the same identical home are certainly a measure of inflation. 

The Fed ignored this from 2002-2007 then we had a crash. The Fed ignored this again from 2016-2022. 

To expect such price action to continue is crazy. But that is what second home buyers and flippers expect. 

The problem for the Fed is they ignored the housing bubbles and if they stick to the same methodology ignoring home prices with a focus on rent, they will keep hiking in the midst of huge demand destruction. 

Asset prices will fall, but rents may remain stubbornly high and that’s how the Fed mistakenly views inflation.

Let’s put a spotlight on one statement by Nutt: “The Fed will need to hike more this cycle to have the same effect on economic activity“.

That sentence may or may not be true. I suspect it’s false. But, if we replace the words “economic activity” with “the CPI“, then most likely it is true. 

And that’s a huge problem for the Fed who pretends to be a group of inflation fighters. 

Economic Wizards vs Reality

Reality is the Fed is a bunch of good ole boy groupthink economists who are clueless about inflation.  

These pretend wizards highlight my statement every recession cycle by not recognizing huge economic bubbles as being the key measure of inflation.

This is why we have boom-bust cycles with increasing amplitude over time. Bubble-wise, this is the biggest one yet.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
I’m not so sure about the housing point. With a lot more corporate ownership of homes equity loss cutting along with walking away and letting the bond market absorb the losses will be more likely.
Cocoa
Cocoa
2 years ago
Keep in mind that while consumers delevered to some extent, corporate borrowers(hedge funds, REITs) can access money a lot cheaper and play the casinos whithout ruining their lives. If the FED prints free money, gives it to banks and hedge funds, we can have a new rentier class. Blackstone is investing in student housing now. The FED is abetting the biggest taxpayer to wealthy heist in history by printing the US into insolvency and only entities standing with real assets are Blackrock,Blackstone,Goldman, JP et Al.
Greenmountain
Greenmountain
2 years ago
Love the comment about boomers! But the other factor is the number of homes being brought for investment. I live in a sort of tourist area and many homes are being brought for airbnb or just to rent out. And I am told there are still a lot of buyers with cash ready to buy something. Some are the big RE investment companies but a lot are Mom and Pop investors who are also picking up homes hoping they will get a lot of cash flow. This is a new trend here, so not sure what the shelf life is for this type of investing but for now keeping prices high. Not good news for the local home buyers.
TechLover1
TechLover1
2 years ago
Reply to  Greenmountain
The airbnb “investing” will crash hard once people go back to hotels as the pandemic recedes.
They are paying much more than someone who will pay to live in it. It is still a residential property, not a commercial one to be valued at a CAP rate, yet many investors are paying for it as such. Once the cashflow comes down, this sector of owners will be a net seller and pressure prices down. Additionally, even if the government offers some sort of assistance, these owners will not be covered. Only homeowners who live in their homes will likely qualify for aid.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago

Reality is the Fed is a bunch of good ole boy groupthink economists who are … pretend wizards

Excellent articulation/wordsmithing.
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
This crash will be epic! No way this is preventable at this point. They cannot lower rates once the crash begins without sending inflation to the sun. The Fed’s hands are tied. They created this mess, now we’ll all pay as they sacrificed our future for their gain.
TechLover1
TechLover1
2 years ago
Reply to  Dean_70
I don’t believe their hands are tied. They will pivot to trimmed CPI or some other measure. It’s easy to forget, but this has happened multiple times where they just change the goal posts.
I am watching intently how they proceed with their QT plans. I believe their holdings will be larger going forward. May be materially larger. They really can’t let it go down hard as long as they possibly can. We are not even close to the real end of this story.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
Who??
Jessica has a lot to learn. And will. Soon.
Anyone who uses “mean” rather than “median” (especially in era of record wealth inequality) tells me all I need to know.
And double downs with the “all cash” baloney. Sure, investors (and institutional funds) may purchase using all cash. All cash puts your bid on top of the stack of bids. But investors – once they have title – do cash out refis to leverage investment (and hence free up $$s to purchase more). REITs – in general – go to Wall Street to raise $$s (take on debt) for “all cash”. Interest rates matter. A lot.
Back in 2006, when I thought housing crazy (like now) I asked two RE agents (both had 20+ years of experience and were in different locales) their thoughts. They mirrored each other with ‘markets might be a little ahead of themselves. Will plateau for a year or two before onward and upward. Fundamentals are solid’. Did not say a word.
Pricing for assets is done at the margin … and when that dries up? … especially, when fundamentals have left the building? …
The upcoming crash will be on par with last one.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Agreed. We’ve never seen a FED with a $9T balance sheet. We’ve never spent $11T in two years. We’ve never seen $30T in national debt, this kind of investing margin debt, national debt, home debt, car debt, home owner debt, student loan debt, national interest on debt, Medicare Part B deficits, annual budget deficits & illegal immigration like we have today. Inflation is running at 40 year high. Congress is totally dysfunctional, crime in most major cities run by Democrats is skyrocketing. According to Russia, we (NATO) are at war with them. Our energy independence is shot. And, Biden wants to start raising taxes based on paper gains for people making $100M. That’s screwed up. Hey, at least we got out of Iraq & Iran, the later no so well though.
When this house of cards starts to go south, I just don’t see how it holds up better than 2007 – 2010..
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Good points. Assume you mean Iraq and Afghanistan?
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
“The upcoming crash will be on par with last one.”
Because your ideas are so well-developed, the above is granted for the sake of argument. My follow-up question: will the subsequent recovery be on par with the last one?
If yes, then should those long RE care?
Billy
Billy
2 years ago
I believe 3% is the average amount the Fed needs to raise before causing a significant slowdown in the housing market. With $30Trillion in debt, that won’t happen any time soon.
I do see rent control expanding across the US just like how the homeless has been pushed out of the big cities and into the suburbs. I feel like it will be an orchestrated event.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
Reply to  Billy
The RE market is slowing NOW.
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Maybe historically, but historically they haven’t started at 0.25. A 3% jump will double monthly payments for many.
QTPie
QTPie
2 years ago
Reply to  Billy
The Fed funds rate does not correlate directly with mortgage interest rates. Case in point… although the Fed only raised the funds rate by .25%, actual mortgage interest rates have gone up by 2% since the beginning of January.
TechLover1
TechLover1
2 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
Correct. The mortgage market is responding to potential QT by the Fed. It owns a huge chunk of mortgage bonds. If the Fed slows down the current pace of buying, the mortgage rate will continue to climb.
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
2 years ago
Reply to  TechLover1
they front ran the rates, the 10 yr will pull back from here, actually correlates with natural gas rise, running in tandem
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  Billy
With the 30-year low in at 2.75% and rates currently at 5.25%, we’re just about there, right?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
There will be a lot of bagholders once the labor market cools. I know corporations keep saying there is a labor shortage but if the economy slows even a little bit that will end quickly. WSJ published something saying it is almost impossible to get laid off in this labor market. When I start seeing articles saying something is impossible, that’s when we are at or just after a top.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Overall labour market will cool but expect some jobs will continue to be hot and in extreme demand.
TechLover1
TechLover1
2 years ago
I have had no success hiring last year for my company. This year is a different story. I have hired three employees last two months. More applications coming in and finally applicants are returning calls.
I believe the labor market is turning quickly. Let’s see where we are in a few months.
thimk
thimk
2 years ago
Excellent analysis. Yes i don’t expect a precipitous drop in housing valuations . it is different this time . Also perhaps we could add replacement cost to the analysis . Supply will be constricted because of labor/material costs and availability . similar to the new car automotive segment , the lack of new cars increased the valuation of used cars . However this does support a soft landing housing scenario. Additionally unbridled immigration could also put pressure on housing . But on the opposite side of the coin one could surmise that the covid excess deaths may have released some supply . Also in an inflationary environment people want to hold tangible investment vehicles . Presented by an Arm chair economist . This isn’t a classic downturn .
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
Reply to  thimk
“it is different this time”
The older I get, the more I realize it is never different (Other than amplitude).
TechLover1
TechLover1
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
It is always different. Every downturn hits specific sectors harder than others. 2008 one was particularly hard on RE. That was an anomaly (i.e. it was different than other downturns). It makes sense to analyze if RE will be the sector that will take it on the chin in the next recession. I expect it to be similar to other downturns where RE is not hit as hard as other asset classes.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  thimk
I have learned to stop reading anytime someone says “it’s different this time”.
I remember 1999, 2007 and other times when things were much different.
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  thimk
“Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.”
The more change, the more it is the same thing.
It’s ALWAYS different. But it’s ALWAYS the same. The very definition of a bromide or tautology. A meaningless statement. May as well say, “The world is.”
shamrock
shamrock
2 years ago
Not seeing any slowdown at all locally, contingent offers in a day or 2 and sale prices 5-10% over asking. At some point prices and mortgage rates are too much burden but that hasn’t been reached yet.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“This is why we have boom-bust cycles with increasing amplitude over time. Bubble-wise, this is the biggest one yet.”
Each time the bigger bubble bursts, it gets harder to push the string.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Why do the bubbles keep getting bigger then?
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Because they have to push the string harder to make it move.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Make what move?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
The one which is nominally valuing the worthless, value destroying makework done by connected dilettantes. From the “insolvent”, or at least unprofitable, side of the ledger. To the nominally solvent and profitable one. That is, after all, what The Fed’s mandate is.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
What is your string?
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack
He needs to start labeling things like Ben Garrison does.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago

Redfin reports “Investors who ‘flip’ homes see potential to turn a big profit as home prices soar.

“What happens when prices decline?”

Flop. As in the title of an HGTV series, Flip or Flop?
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“The biggest mistake is the belief Fed rate hikes have no effect on
housing demand if the property is not financed but bought in cash.”
Bernanke: It’s confined to subprime.
billybobjr
billybobjr
2 years ago
The prices are way to high but one thing that has supported it is high income people moving out of cities to
other areas because of the work from home dynamic that won’t change anytime soon . Take MB SC you move
from a big city and move there and even though prices have skyrocketed there they are still cheaper
than where you left. Taxes and transportation costs saving on expensive lunches ect. save these people
tons of money from what they paid in the cities they left . The flip side is that Insurance ,taxes , hoa
fees are headed very high for the ones that are already there as values rise . I don’t see how it continues
but like anything there are winners and losers . The high income people who can move to lower cost areas
and keep there corporate high salaries will benefit big time . The companies who can cut the infrastructure cost
will also benefit but the employees will have a much easier time finding other work if they are not happy without
suffering the shock of having to move to another maybe undesirable area .
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Housing is much less affordable now than it was a few months ago. And the FED has done almost nothing yet. They raised rates a tiny amount, but there’s been no balance sheet reduction. I know some of this is in anticipation of future FED actions.
One factor rarely mentioned is many jobs can be done from home now. Employers see there’s no need to go into the office and allowing people to work from home gives them a competitive advantage. So, if this trend continues, people can live anywhere that has internet access and have a good paying job. Home builders no longer have to focus on building near where the jobs are. This opens up a lot of inexpensive land that can be developed.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Home is Bangalore. Home is Hyderabad. Home is Romania. Home is Brazil.
Home is wherever educated folks with any amount of English can get on the internet.
TCW
TCW
2 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Not so much for the defense industry where classified work has to be done in house.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
Reply to  TCW
Not so much for some segments of the pharmaceutical industry too.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
2000 called, wants its bogeyman back.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The further someone is away from their “work location”, the more the vulnerability to cyber attacks disrupting their effectiveness.
Even if a company works in the cloud, there are distances and nodes between each data center that could be vulnerable to different attacks.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack
Most of the stuff people work on in their work location isn’t even in their work location.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“..many jobs can be done from home now.”
But. very, very few, particularly productive ones, can be done nearly as well, as they can from a location specifically built and staffed for just that purpose.
Covid admittedly did demonstrate there are two sides to the coin; but one of the more remarkable insights gleaned from Japanese workplaces ( they haven’t had much in the way of broad-money inflation providing de facto continuous bailouts and covering up inefficiencies there for a while, hence have had a much greater need to put up or shut up than colleagues in The West ), is how much simpler, yet still how much effectively richer, the “IT” infrastructures remain there.
It’s like going back to America in the 80s and 90s: Accountants and managers having direct access to raw data, a proper toolset, and the knowledge to use it, to dig in. Instead of being reduced to driving with the only guidance being two directions of swipe and a cute looking “Key Performance Metric” graph slapped together at great cost and complexity from decentralized “clouds” by some dude in Hyderabad whose only real interest as sharpening his resume for a “startup” gig by fiddling around with some “artificial intelligence, real stupidity” library. The dude getting paid 3% of what it costs to hire him, with the rest going to endless layers of, honestly, unspeakables….
But yes, it dd render work-from-home, or from anywhere else but their desk, a bit more inconvenient….
That’s just the already somewhat limited number of productive jobs which are maximally suited for work-from-home…..
Momentum is a real thing. Rendering productivity declines, as projects slowly drift and new ones are less valuable than they otherwise would be, slow rather than obviously abrupt. While for the, by now, VERY significant number who live solely off of Fed welfare, it isn’t all that important exactly where they happen to sit while doing nothing at all useful. But far and away most actually value adding jobs/tasks, aren’t in any real way even close to “location independent”, when measured in lasting productivity.

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