I said “far more likely” and that is obviously true.
thimk
2 years ago
Yes something is amiss. Perhaps one should take a gaze at the comment made by Yooper (bottom). I can personally attest the following : A
newly formed corp ( he sent me his papers) wanted to buy a single family residential property ,located on the other side of the continent,
that I had listed on craigslist sight unseen . With spider senses tingling, I asked the prospective purchaser to send me proof of funds. He eagerly send me his business bank account statement which had only one deposit (credit) listed . I researched the deposit code ; it was a PPP or EIDL loan from the federal government. The address listed on the statement pointed to an , what it looked like an abandoned trailer park in the desert. I asked the purchaser what name to he want to place on the property . He responded he wanted the property titled in the name of his common law wife . Needless to say i was eager to sell because he was positioned to offer me full listing price. But the deal fell through for other reasons. Ya no wonder so many want to move here . Murica home the free, 😉
PreCambrian
2 years ago
The incorporation really isn’t what determines if one makes money at self-employment, however if you are successful (i.e. make money) then incorporation offers substantial tax advantages and liability advantages. In addition it costs money to incorporate so it isn’t worthwhile if the amount of money earned is low.
So yes, incorporated vs unincorporated is worthwhile following since it allows a better understanding of the data but incorporation is the effect not the cause of making money.
This is a tough one because with W-2 wage earners you can tell what’s going on using social security withholdings to the government but with the unincorporated social security withholding happens using estimated taxes which can be unreliable, and/or happens using reconciliation at tax return time which introduces a big delay in reporting actual social security wages.
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
I think a good chunk of people are incorporated and working multiple jobs. This is why I’ve said before that there aren’t as many jobs available. The employed are only counted once and covid has allowed many people to double dip with no consequences. People are taking advantage of desperate companies who are being billed for 8 hour days when only doing 1 hour of work. Companies are saving money on Healthcare and benefits. It’s a win win. I also think a fair chunk of incorporated individuals are just tax loopholes and getting benefits from the government as unemployed individuals. The government isn’t very smart about rooting out this fraud. And so the worm turns.
RonJ
2 years ago
“Something seems amiss. That’s what got me thinking about self-employment.”
Maybe they have neglected to include the recent self-employment craze, Smash and Grab Marketing. Burbank was hit around 2:30 this morning on Magnolia Blvd., with some small shops broken into on one particular block. The 14 who were arrested in the Nordstrom S&G at The Grove, had been released, so they would have been available for more S&G marketing opportunities. Though no indication they were involved.
L.A. police Chief Moore indicated he was not too happy that The Grove 14 were out and about, during a press conference yesterday, considering his officers went to the trouble of tracking down and arresting them. LAPD does however, have the suspect of a home invasion robbery attempt in Beverly Hills, who allegedly killed philanthropist Jackie Avant during the incident. He was caught trying another robbery a short time later, after he shot himself in the foot during the process.
Irondoor
2 years ago
I have been incorporated self-employed for 35 years. I tick every one of your boxes.
The Incorporated Self Employed Earn Much more (Maybe, but I don’t know your definition of Much More)
The Incorporated Self Employed are More Likely to Have Health Insurance (I do)
Incorporated Self Employed are Much More Likely to be Male (I am)
Incorporated Self Employed are More Likely to be White and Asian (I am Caucasion)
The Incorporated Self Employed are More Likely to be in the Middle of the Age Distribution (Past the “Middle of the Age”)
The Incorporated Self Employed are More Likely to be American Citizens (I am a Flag-waving Citizen and Veteran of a Foreign War)
The Incorporated Self Employed are More Likely to be Married (To the same woman for 43 years)
The Incorporated Self-Employed are More Likely to be Proficient in English (Don’t know about that, being from the South)
The Incorporated Self Employed are More Highly Educated (I do have a college degree. Don’t know if I’m “Highly” educated)
The Incorporated and Unincorporated Self Employed Tend to Work in Different Industries and Occupations (I’m in Financial Services)
I was unincorporated for a couple of years after I left the mother ship of the Big Corporation. I soon ran afoul of the IRS and after incorporating it has been smooth sailing, tax-wise, ever since.
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
“Something seems amiss.”
…
Likely applies to initial claims, too. Claims are way down, but might not mean economic strength. Spring 2020 there were 20 some million on UE. States set criteria, but for most to file you need to have worked 4 out of past 5 quarters. Assuming LIFO (last in first out) many hires from early this year could be unemployed again (supply constraints / delta / business not what cnbc says / etc) … and we wouldn’t know it from claims.
They got clubbed worse in August, and the world didn’t end. I’m still not buying this as a top. Not nearly enough evidence to suggest that. Not yet anyway. Anything can happen, of course.
Lots of fear and loathing amongst the financial intelligentsia this week, but at worst we are seeing the beginning a of a trend change.
Ah, but bonds are the “smart” money. Historically, much of their moves occur while equity still partying. By the time stocks go “uh oh” bonds near finish line.
President Xi trying to thread the needle. He’ll fail. Bonds know this.
KidHorn
2 years ago
In order to get a PPP loan, do you have to be incorporated?
I approved over $35 million in PPP. Most important was as Mish said – a business checking account. 2nd, was proper tax filings – payroll and quarterly. Later PPP was expanded to sole proprietors.
…and again to Mish, there was so much – unethical – free money given out to business owners and it was gross, especially in the extensions. Things like dentists maximizing their own retirement funding and salary to $100k, and having all forgiven. Or companies being reimbursed for payroll that became essentially a windfall of cash. If you didn’t qualify for forgiveness, it was basically an interest-free loan.
I’ve read that quite a few of those businesses were using that cash to buy vehicles (since they could make payroll on their own because their business wasn’t that badly affected). That’s apparently one reason why new/used vehicle prices have skyrocketed with consumers not even bothering to shop for bargains (unheard of in the car industry) since they were getting free money.
Yep, I know business owners as well who made an absolute killing of of the PPP loans. It’s crazy that this money was given out without really checking to make sure business owners actually needed it.
…and again to Mish, there was so much – unethical – free money given out to business owners and it was gross, especially in the extensions. Things like dentists maximizing their own retirement funding and salary to $100k, and having all forgiven. Or companies being reimbursed for payroll that became essentially a windfall of cash. If you didn’t qualify for forgiveness, it was basically an interest-free loan.