How Much Will the Fed Hike? 40 Years of History Shows the Brick Walls

Data from St. Louis Fed, chart by Mish

The above chart shows the Federal Funds Rate (FFR) vs the yield on various US Treasury notes. 

Data is monthly averages except the current point is today. 

Long Term Chart 

I picked this idea up from Steve Matthews, Bloomberg Business Reporter. 

There is a 50-year history that the Fed never hikes rates once the fed funds rate has risen above the five-year yield. That point could come before the end of 2022, and suggests that it will be very difficult to continue.”

Read that carefully. Matthews did not say the Fed Fund Rate didn’t top the yield on the 5-year note, only that once it did, the Fed stopped hiking.

This can happen by the Fed hiking or longer-term yield falling.

Three Word About Rate Hike Predictions 

Three Words: Fade Those Projections!

Last Rate Hike Cycle

Data from St. Louis Fed, chart by Mish

Pay particular attention to that last hike cycle as shown above. 

Huge inversions started in April of 2019. Those inversions signaled recession well before Covid-19 hit and they started while the Fed was in pause mode, not hiking.

The pandemic did not cause a recession, it only steepened the recession that was about to begin. 

Rate Hike Cycles Peak Lower and Lower

It’s the Debt, Stupid!

“There are logical reasons why each FF hiking cycle has “died out” at a lower level than its predecessor since the Volcker era. I’m confident this one will be no different. Advanced economies like ours, Japan’s, Europe’s etc. all in same boat.”

Mike Larson, Senior Analyst at Weiss Ratings, hits the key idea.

I can paraphrase: “It’s the debt, stupid!” 

And demographics don’t help. 

The market expects 6 or 7 rate hikes this year to about 1.75%. There’s little to no chance of that in my opinion.

Confident of Three Things

I am confident the Fed is hiking into a recession, the asset bubble will burst, and the Fed once again has no idea what is coming

For discussion, please see James Bullard Says Fed Credibility Is On the Line, Repeats Faster Rate Hike Message

Also see Delusional Fed President Hopes to Steepen the Yield Curve Via QT and Rate Hikes

The yield curve is flattening fast and that will put a top on how far this Fed will hike, inflation or not.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
re: “The pandemic did not cause a recession, it only steepened the recession that was about to begin.”
That’s exactly correct.  Powell is an idiot.  Powell should stop buying the bonds which are stoking inflation. 
vboring
vboring
3 years ago
A recession will put Trump back in office.
Most of the people who make decisions that can delay recessions don’t want that.
No conspiracy. Each individual sees their ability to delay a recession – at the risk of causing a depression – and is accepting that risk. 
I’ll take the under on interest rates. And the over on bubble size and duration.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Russia’s formal answer out today:
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
so your guess is ?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
Brussels as Nato’s headquarters is ground zero.
WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
3 years ago
Calculated the same way inflation was tracked in 1982 , we’re already at 15% inflation.
Volcker faced 15% inflation per the truthful 1982 CPI.   I received 21% interest in a Merrill -Lynch CMA account in 1982.
My wife and I paid 10.5% interest on out 1st home purchase in Burbank, CA.  This is where interest rates would have to go
to fight inflation.  This is the extent to which the predatory rich and their Fed protectors have gone in their greed and complete
disdain for a country that gave them everything they could steal.
Nothing was ever more true:
“If their lips are moving, they’re lying”.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
“… 10.5% interest on out 1st home purchase in Burbank, CA.  This is where interest rates would have to go to fight inflation.”

Since a good chunk of the inflation is because of the wealth effect caused by the various asset bubbles, and the bubbles depend on ZIRP, I would say we don’t need anywhere near those rates.   Even 1% to 1.5% short-term rates (or 4.5% to 5% mortgage rates) can do the job.

Mish
Mish
3 years ago
There is a 50-year history that the Fed never hikes rates once the fed funds rate has risen above the five-year yield.”
Ignoring Volcker, the statement is accurate. It may be accurate down to even 1%. 
once the fed funds rate has risen above the five-year yield.”
The Fed kept hiking and hiking and hiking under Greenspan. BUT with the FF rate BELOW the 5-year yield the entire way. 
 
Then long term yields fell below the FF rate and THEN the Fed immediately stopped hiking. 
Mathews is correct, and then some. 
I think it applies to the 2-year and possibly even 1-year yield. Look at the last chart I posted for an easy to see example. 
In general, but perhaps not every case, the Fed hikes until there is an inversion. 
Had he stated the Fed stops hiking when the FF Rate inverts with the 5-year yield no one would be confused. 
But that is exactly what his statement means. I think it goes beyond that possibly down to 1 year.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Do they when inflation as at say 10 to 15%? Or higher? In reality the curve would remain positive  (out to 5 years) to allow for it if this was the case because it would be clear the Fed had been losing the inflation battle and everyone would know they’d have to get aggressive to gain control of inflation. I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen, it would be a disaster for everyone. 
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
$5 price swing today on oil. This is not a stable market.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Should have hiked last year and they would nearly be done. There is good reason for congress to dissolve the Fed and just have a fixed interest rate that balances savers and risk takers. Say 4%. A fixed interest rate would prevent these bubbles. It would also mean that there would be no rescues for emergencies for the banks or investors speculating in assets Fed is propping up. There is actually a path to ending the Fed now and this would have support across the spectrum. 
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
3 years ago
Yes, there is a perfectly logical reason each FF rate hike cycle died out. A 60 year interest rate cycle began in the early 1980’s. All rate hikes were part of counter trend interest rate rallies. Now that the interest rate cycle is 40 years old, the general trend will now be UP for 20 years. Fear of default, not demand for money, will drive yields higher.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
very interesting thought.   i’m in the camp past 40 years were a huge cycle down in rates.  if we go opposite for a few decades,  we all go to school.  and get taught.  
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
“Now that the interest rate cycle is 40 years old, the general trend will now be UP for 20 years.”
What can’t be paid, won’t.
Any move UP in rates will be met with economic slowing as MASSIVE debt overhang must be serviced.  Not until debt reduced via pay down / write down / write off will rates rise sustainably.
At some point I expect some sort of new monetary regime (debt jubilee) to address problem.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
It’s not a 60-year interest rate cycle.  No, 1981 ended the “monetization” of time deposits.  Thus, the demand for money couldn’t shift any further. It’s the biggest error in the history of the world.  Banks don’t lend deposits.  Deposits are the result of lending.  Bank-held savings have a zero payment’s velocity. Bank-held savings destroy the velocity of circulation in the circular flow of income. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
I looked today at the Moore Inflation Predictor, a computation of baked in inflation, and how it will affect future numbers. I was startled:
They show that if the Fed tightens quickly, as they have indicated, inflation will be pretty steady around 7% for the next year, but if they don’t, inflation will be 11% a year from now. Mish, I’m guessing you will take the Under on that (way under)?
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
That’s wrong.  Inflation is predetermined by long-term monetary flows, volume times transaction’s velocity.  Money flows, the distributed lag effect, along with the “base effect” peaked this January.  Nothing has changed in > 100 years.  The distributed lag effect is not “long and variable”, it has always been a mathematical constant.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you mean by the first two words of your reply. What are you saying is wrong? That inflation probably will be 7% in a year? That inflation might be 11% in a year? That future inflation can be projected from baked in information? That Fed tightening will have an impact on what inflation is?
FooFooFed
FooFooFed
3 years ago
Has anybody looked at the EuroDollar Futures curve? Less steep in the Reds, the whole thing is flattening.
FooFooFed
FooFooFed
3 years ago
“Advanced economies like ours, Japan’s, Europe’s etc. all in same boat.” -M.L.  with all due respect……there is nothing economically advance in our economy, if it was advanced just maybe life for everybody would be economically better, less distorted. But if you mean advancing in the same obscene direction, well, yes then.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Reply to  FooFooFed
Advanced economies refers to developed exonomies with higher standards of living. Have you ever been to a developing or underdeveloped country? While I agree the gap has narrowed, it is still substantial.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
The thing about advanced economies is the impoundment and ensconcing of monetary savings in the banks.  Secular stagnation is just a deceleration in velocity, the bottling up of bank-held savings.  Japan is a good
example. The Japanese save a greater proportion of their income and keep a
larger proportion in their payment’s system. “Japanese households have 52% of
their money in currency & deposits, vs 35% for people in the Eurozone and
14% for the US.”

Banks don’t lend deposits. Deposits are the
result of lending. I.e., because economists don’t know a debit from a credit,
we will never have high economic growth.

shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
I’m looking at Matthews chart and his hypothesis looks like total BS.  There are only 2 instances of the fed funds rate being more than marginally higher than the 5 year and both times the FED kept hiking.  AND, the reason was to fight inflation.  Well, inflation is back.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
exactly.   we haven’t had inflation like this in prices since 70s.    gotta go back to 1920s and even further to see how rates moved during inflation.    past 40 years has been a panacea.     not a shot anyone knows where we are going   way too complicated with plague and only 30% occupancy of office space and money printing to moon and insurrections of summer of 2020 and jan 6th.      the past 40 years is a delusion to hang a hat on where we are now.   imho.     i still enjoy your blog very much mish.    you do a wonderful job.  
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
Nope 
You are looking incorrectly or reading incorrectly.
I made the same mistake initially until I looked at exactly what he said.
There is a 50-year history that the Fed never hikes rates once the fed funds rate has risen above the five-year yield.”
Ignoring Volcker, the statement is accurate. It may be accurate down to even 1%. 
once the fed funds rate has risen above the five-year yield.”
The Fed kept hiking and hiking and hiking under  Greenspan. BUT with the FF rate BELOW the 5-year yields the entire way. 
 
Then long term yields fell below the FF rate and THEN the Fed stopped hiking. 
Mathews is correct, and then some. 
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
thanks for the extra clarification.    keep on doing what you did.   you helped me tremendously back in the bubble pre summer of 2007 popping……….and aftermath
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
My estimate is zero. These cretins wait until something big happens.
They waited patiently until the pandemic arrived. Check.
My bet is, they quietly wait for WW3.
There is this logic behind it or they’re complete morons.
amigator
amigator
3 years ago
Very wealthy morons.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
3 years ago
“We could raise interest rates in 15 minutes if we have to.”
                   — Ben Bernanke (2010 “60 Minutes” interview)
Yet they are still printing “money” and buying bonds and MBS. And we will have to wait another whole MONTH to find out if they are ready to raise rates by a puny 0.25% or 0.50%.
This Federal Reserve deserves no more respect than the Banco Central de Venezuela.
Venezuela current inflation rate = 686%
Venezuela overnight interbank lending rate = 58.35%
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago

Inflations going to be persistent, even as the economy slows, with the Fed constantly behind the curve in my view. Yields in general will rise keep pushing up so there won’t be a problem with the Fed Funds 5 year spread. Not this year anyway, maybe when there’s a new Fed Governor and they start panicking. 

Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
Agree with this. I see us going down the path Japan took. Higher inflation and slower growth along with shrinking asset bubbles.  I do see other signs America is trying to take back advanced manufacturing in much the way Japan did to prevent the further rise of China. I think much of the next few decades will be spent trying to bring growth back to America but will result in inflation 
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Mr Market is a bug in search of a windshield … but FOMC doesn’t want its fingerprints on its demise … so, tepid steps till SOMETHING (preferably Offshore) happens that can be blamed … THEN FOMC can step in with broom & pan and play role of Hero.
Things getting worse in Census Bureau household pulse survey land.
Roadrunner12
Roadrunner12
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
 “THEN FOMC can step in with broom & pan and play role of Hero.”
Im wondering, what can they do to play Hero? They cant lower interest rates any more unlike past recessions. And what if there is continued inflation? some expect it to continue, some dont.
Personally I am expecting asset deflation but I believe energy and food inflation to continue although it may be somewhat muted during a recession. Debt, Demographics and Oil. We have debt out the yin yang. We now have bubbles in stocks, housing, crypto. All the baby boomers will be retired by the end of this decade and kinks I believe are coming shortly with one of the Medicare plans becoming insolvent in a few years and I also believe social security will be insolvent in 6+ years. A retirement crisis is coming. And on top of that Im a peak oil energy guy. I believe that we are at the peak of energy production and can expect declines going forward. I expect the transition to green to be a rough ride that many arent expecting.
Im guessing that the next 20 years will be of negative to very little growth. Anyway those are my thoughts IMHO.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
“Im wondering, what can they do to play Hero?”
AFTER a shellacking and investor sentiment at rock bottom … things never stay the same … investor sentiment will improve … as Federal Reserve boosts balance sheet (investors will LOVE when FR gets go ahead to purchase equities via ETFs … ala Japan) … won’t take much encouragement to bounce off bottom when valuations are at levels where long term returns are enticing.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
That would be the second coming of the savior. Don’t you know that Bernanke saved the world from disaster (which himself created)?
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Ben Bernanke bankrupt America.  He was directly responsible for the GFC.  He contracted monetary flows for 29 contiguous months.  The then destroyed the nonbanks by remunerating IBDDs.

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