We have a deal. It will increase the deficit more than anyone can foresee now.
What’s In the Deal?
- Healthcare money goes straight to households via flexible spending accounts.
- The bill ensures back pay for federal workers after the White House had earlier called into question whether the money was guaranteed.
- Provisions reversed thousands of firings of federal workers initiated by the Trump administration since the shutdown
- Provisions forbid additional firings at least through Jan. 31, when a new interim spending measure expires.
The deal passed the Senate 60-40 but no one can really say how the healthcare spending accounts work.
The Wall Street Journal comments Senate Clears Key Hurdle Toward Ending Government Shutdown
The vote was 60-40 on a measure to take up House-passed spending legislation that required 60 votes under the Senate’s filibuster procedures. Eight members of the Democratic caucus joined almost all Republicans in voting in favor, allowing the bill to move forward after more than a dozen failed votes since September.
The Senate’s next big step is to amend the measure and send it back to the GOP-led House—but that can’t happen unless the Senate unanimously agrees to dispense with other procedural steps that would delay action.
Sen. Dick Durbin (D., Ill.), the No. 2 Senate Democrat, joined centrists in voting for the legislation. Sen. Tim Kaine (D., Va.) also voted in favor, after winning provisions that reversed the thousands of firings of federal workers initiated by the Trump administration since the shutdown—and that forbid additional firings at least through Jan. 31, when a new interim spending measure expires. The bill would also ensure back pay for federal workers after the White House had earlier called into question whether the money was guaranteed.
The eight members of the Democratic caucus who backed the bill include mostly centrists like Shaheen, Durbin, Kaine, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada, and Jacky Rosen of Nevada, along with Angus King, a Maine independent who caucuses with the Democrats.
Any deal will still need approval in the House of Representatives, which has been out of session since Sept. 19. House Speaker Mike Johnson (R., La.) has put members on notice that he would give them 48 hours to return in the event the Senate passed a spending bill.
A key development that appeared to break the logjam in the negotiations was that Senate Republicans proposed that some healthcare funding be provided directly to households rather than be used to pay for a one-year extension of enhanced ACA subsidies.
That GOP proposal involves sending federal money into flexible-spending accounts instead of to insurance companies that use the money to offset the cost of premiums, so consumers pay a smaller monthly bill. The money could be used to cover deductibles and other out-of-pocket costs, which Republicans see as a way to give consumers more choice and control healthcare inflation.
“It looks like we are getting close to the shutdown ending,” President Trump told reporters when he returned to the White House Sunday evening. “You’ll know very soon.”
Hoot of the Day
The WSJ authors commented “The potential deal seemed to give Democrats little in exchange for voting to end the shutdown.”
Are you kidding me?
The direct cash to consumers is the start of Universal Basic Income (UBI). And now Republicans own that.
This mechanism once started will never end. Money handouts will go up and up and up.
Bond Market Reaction
The 10-year bond yield is up 5 basis points to 4.14 percent.
The 30-year bond yield is up 4 basis points to 4.74 percent.
Based on what I expect to happen, yields ought to be up a lot more.
Gold’s Reaction
“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
Why not?
Uh… Who is paying for this? Wasn’t the plan to cut back the cost?
Gold sure gets the picture. Gold is up $75 to $4,085 per ounce. Silver, copper, and oil are all up as well.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
Republicans are going to regret this UBI substitute.
Democrats were ready to deal for a mere one-year $35 billion extension of Obamacare subsidies, guaranteed to be temporary.
Instead Democrats get the start of a UBI program guaranteed to not be temporary.
As the article title and content suggest, look at gold and what it is doing. Up $150 in 36 hours. The price of gold has exploded and is running higher with the recognition of this current example of our dysfunctional government.
Get ready for another downgrade of our credit rating as Trump and his team of grifters continue their pattern of rape and pillage.
Elections have consequences!
And when the SCOTUS rejects the tariffs, look out above for gold…
Welcome to America where the minority party dictates policy, as it always has.
Given recent election results and the expectation that democrats will gain control of the House and Senate in the mid-term elections, if the republicans agree to a one-year temporary extension of the ACA subsidies, then, a year from now, would the democrats not likely vote to make such extension of ACA subsidies as permanent or long-term as they can?
Neither party is committed to reduce the deficit. Each party continues to determine how to spend money they do not have in new and different ways. Each party member thinks that he or she is smart enough to leave the game before the FUBAR deficits and the federal debt levels explode in his or her face.
60 votes?
I don’t want the FSA. Does that money distributed to me count as taxable?
Buy gold and don’t worry.
Sounds like Andrew Yang will be happy except he wanted to pay for it with a VAT.
Many large corporations self insure. They have tens of thousands of employees. I think they hire an insurance company to manage it for them. When an employee sees a doctor, it looks like an insurance company is paying the bill. They are not. The bill is paid by corporate revenue. It is in essence a single-payor system, little different than Canada’s, and it saves them a significant amount of money. They are socialist, AOC-style corporations. This needs to end.
it’s all so idiotic. just do medicaide for all. or copy any of the european or western health care financing options. amerikans are grifters. so we elect grifter senators and have grifter doctors and health insurers. the republic, penned by plato and socrates explained the conundrum of a society of assholes. amerikans are twats. until that changes, don’t expect anything good.
If that is what you learned from reading Plato, you didn’t understand The Apology, Plato’s Republic, The Laws, etc.
The largest public school teachers’ union in my state is investigating such an arrangement (self-insuring, using a 3rd party company to manage the plan.)
LMAO. If something works, it must end. DUMB!
Negotiating power always increases with more members., either with self-insurers or group insurers The lesson is to form collectives of uninsured, and then bargain for insurance coverage.
Competition will lower health costs. NOTHING ELSE.
Obvious sarcasm.
It’s a single payor system. Exactly like the socialist single payor systems in the rest of the industrialized world. One thing, they do not really negotiate significantly lower prices. Doctors and hospitals and big pharma get rich off of socialistic corporations that self insure their employees because they want their employees to be well taken care of. In 2023 my socialistic corporate provider chewed out the insurance company that runs their plan for denying care prescribed by physicians. As in, cut that gawd damned chit out. Who is not getting rich? Health insurance companies. The Republicans’s buddies in the healthcare insurance industry the Republicans suddenly no longer want to pay. After decades of stubbornly insisting they be paid (that insistence is why Obama{Romney}care exists. Lol.
Australian has free universal hospital care largely paid for by a 2% levy on income, up to 3.5% for high income earners. They have lower costs though due to health-care staff earning much less than the US.
I have a proposal for the USA – offer a 50% discount on the health-care bill for anyone who have a BMI in the normal range and who pass a drug test, which would include nicotine. Offer a further discount for anyone with a vitamin D blood level in the “Optimal” range, defined as over 50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L). Obesity is a major risk factor in most serious illnesses, while many studies show high vitamin D levels are dramatically correlated with protection against the same illnesses.
The medical professionals and drug companies of course would be horrified at this proposal as they see patients as customers whose numbers need to be maximized for the best return on their investment.
I have no health insurance and I have seen a doctor maybe four times in the last forty years. I take about 30 supplements a day and get plenty of exercise.
Taking personal responsibility for your health is the equivalent of owning gold as insurance against a collapsing financial system. Too many people think that doctors will fix any ailment as long as you can afford the bill – not necessarily!
Good on ya mate!
Your quality of food is also better overall than in the Frankenstein food, the US has.
Perhaps – all beef here is pasture-fed, and we’ve never heard of high-fructose corn syrup…
“Democrats were ready to deal for a mere one-year $35 billion extension of Obamacare subsidies, guaranteed to be temporary.”
With Democrats and social programs, nothing is guaranteed to be temporary. It’s a foot in the door, just as two weeks to bend the curve was.
Oh i agree. At the same time republicans want to funnel the wealth up to the top. Im sure the lobbyist from the industry are all over the politicians to get the best deal they can. By either free market or shaping ob care.
Follow the money know whos pulling the strings.
the Yang Gang movement is alive and well with Trump and Maga cult. long live pax dumbfuckistan. as long as israel and ukraine and the MIC get trillions, who are we to complain. let our kids go hungry.
… and injected until eternity; you left out the impoverished Pharmaceutical Complex
The White House Press Release that bummed me outPresident Trump endorses not only the updated Covid booster, but the annual flu shot as well.https://billricejr.substack.com/p/the-white-house-press-release-tha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQlyUjp3vM
Why do this when you can have a solution?
Money to everyone helps the republicans. Prob bad for ins. Sounds kind of like trumps tariffs rebate. I would think more people on one plan would give the gov negotiation power to lower cost. But guess not unless you throw in some campaign finance reform. Eliminate contributions ins companies.
But ill take a couple grand just like everyone else.
But hey now well see if the house can put off the pedo vote
Wonder how much it will cost to set up the gov accts.
Yes indeed, its the start of UBI…except its UBI still unconscious of the new monetary paradigm of Strategic Monetary Gifting. If you create money as a gift…you don’t have to pay (almost entirely only to the banks and the wealthy who don’t actually need an extra padding to their pockets) the interest on treasuries…so you end all of the delusion about “the national debt” which is actually a payment to the private sector…that adds to GDP and prevents us from forthrightly going into a recession…without it.
Now if instead you strategically implement monetary gifting at a point in the economic process THAT EVERYONE PARTICIPATES IN like retail sale with a 50% Discount/Rebate you transform chronic erosive inflation into beneficial deflation…just like libertarians would like to see happen…except they can’t get past Milton Friedman and The Quantity Theory of Money…which the new monetary paradigm policy of a 50% Discount/Rebate INVALIDATES.
What else does the new paradigm do? Well, if you pair the 50% Discount/Rebate with a reasonable $1000/mo. UBI a two person family would have $2000/mo that purchased $4000 worth of goods and services or $48000/yr. not including their job incomes. SO WHY WOULD WE NEED THE PAYROLL TAXES FOR WELFARE AND UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE??? So the new paradigm enables us to accomplish another libertarian goal which is eliminating government bureaucracy. DID YOU GET THAT MISH?
How’s this: If the US is monetarily sovereign, which it is, then, with the new paradigm policies above except to discourage negative behavior like “greedflation” etc. …why couldn’t we just create money as money…not debt and fund the government that way. Voila! Little or no personal or corporate taxation at all. I can out libertarian any libertarian…and out democrat any democrat at the same time. Why’s that? Because historically paradigm changes are resolving thirdnesses greater onenesses…of dueling opposing concepts like capitalism vs socialism. In this case its neither capitalism nor socialism…its Wisdomics-Gracenomics.
Twaddle! Let me give you a way to save more than 50%, gifting crap not required.
In 2021, the average annual health costs for people with obesity were approximately $12,588, compared to $4,699 for those without obesity.
Another something for nothing gimmick. Implement gifting? I guess you have a source of those funds. Everyone gets a 50% discount? Price fixing that assumes there is sufficient markup that can be given up to cover it. Also, price fixing has worked every time, not. Might want to check out how well it worked for Nixon when inflation got all the way up to 4%
Can SPX close Nov 3/4 gap: yes it can. Can SPX rise above 7K: yes it can.
And that’s how you play 5D chess. Get Republicans to start something that Democrats will take and magnify 100x. Who’s going to pay for all of this? I hope boomers on social security and medicare don’t come here and say, “I PAID FOR IT!” because you’ve done no such thing. These new taxes will fall on the already struggling young.
It’s easy to see why the youth vote is splitting two ways: Nick Fuentes Nazis for the republicans and Mamdani socialist caliphate for Democrats.
Are you getting why I keep asking if you have an exit strategy? Some of you guys are slow but eventually you’ll get it.
Got exit strategy?
The thirdness greater onenes of Wisdomics-Gracenomics per my post above.
If exit strategy is relocating in the US then sure. After covidcon global tyranny, I learned that taking my chances in Texas is better than fleeing to another country.
Texas doesn’t have an electric grid that can handle when it gets too cold or too hot and they are building a ton of data centers in Texas. In a few years you won’t be able to afford electricity, much less insurance or property taxes.
Have at it, your regret will start in about 5 years.
Taxes in UBI countries are higher. It takes 3/6 months to get CT or MRI. Instead of a few hours outpatient surgeries patients are staying in hospitals beds before and after surgeries. New docs cannot get jobs. Preventive medicine is abhor. The difference between us and UBI countries is the food they eat and their family support. We eat junk food. We are sedentary and our families are broken and fractured for decades.
Thats because they haven’t identified the real problem which is the monopoly monetary paradigm of Debt Only…and replaced it with Strategic Monetary Gifting.
The Republicans swarmed around Cassidy’s skeleton proposal like moths to a flame. “Yeah, no more money to our butt buddies at the health insurance companies.” And soon all of them will vote against it. In January we will learn how many Americans will forgo buying health insurance. My hunch: ~10 million. Experts are suggesting 2 to 5 million.
Can it get any funnier? FYI, for the supporters of SNAP/EBT. You do realize it is paid whether people want it or not–Some have LEGALLY accrued over $15k in funds on their EBT cards. Some people have EBT cards from numerous states. double, triple, quadruple… dipping.
Now, a health care allowance will be paid in cash. The potential for fraud is vast. Your neighborhood hooker can be paid by claiming massage treatment, or psych counseling. In fact, why buy insurance, anyway? The uninsured can still show up at the ER and get free care.
It comes down to:
“The deal passed the Senate 60-40 but no one can really say how the healthcare spending accounts work.”
Even worse, they really don’t care.
EBT is only paid to people who apply and qualify. There is no way to get EBT in several States, it’s a Fed program and they check.
$2K isn’t going to buy much of anything for health insurance or health care.
sorry they just compared across states and found someone collecting snap in six states
InMyRoom does not understand how incompetent the Federal Government is. If one does it, how many others.
FYI, I know of at least one church who teachers its members how to ‘take advantage’ of gov’t programs.
“Legitimate use vs. fraud: There is a distinction between illegally collecting benefits in multiple states and legitimately using benefits in another state. You can use your benefits anywhere in the country, but you must only be a registered recipient in one state.” -google ai
There is almost no way of validating claims about income, assets etc, without visiting (unannounced) each applicant. Fraud in the #1 industry in the US.
Strike up the calliope, the circus is back in town!
AI isn’t in a bubble. NVDA, Oracle, MSFT, Intel, AMD…are not AI. The hardware, the software and the energy co aren’t AI. They are the muscles, the bones and the fat cells AI needs to grow and function. It’s brain has a lot to learn. When it will grow and mature, within 3/5 years it will expand our knowledge and support our econ.
Mutant apes with opposing thumbs and overgrown cortexes will grab onto sound bio-systems and other resources, meddle with them and mutilate them, and build rickety tower-like structures, until the latter collapse back onto their silly startled faces. A.k.a. human history.
AI is an out-of-control train. Rather than let it grow based on real need (and adding locomotives and carriages as needed), everyone is jumping onto the same HUGE train. The crash (like the dotcom) will be epic. On the plus side, all the excess power generation will reduce the cost of consumer electricity, and make solar/wind completely antiquated.
I never understand universal basic income . If everyone has a stipend then prices are inevitably going up as the free money makes a new zero level. It won’t do a thing for anyone unless you have universal basic pricing which then leads to shortages and Soviet style economics.
With that said, if everyone gets FSA money that same applies to healthcare . By law you have to have health insurance or get the penalty- so giving us the money to administer to Healthcare companies is the same giveaway to healthcare except now the headache is on us . Unless they remove the mandate, then healthcare has to compete for your dollars and some.folks may choose to drink and smoke the UBI cash
Maybe it depends on who is taxed to fund the UBI. Currently, the lowest 50% of earners pay 3% of taxes.
If the UBI is funded by the top 50% of income earners, it’s just a wealth re-distribution, siphoning off money from the top and sending it to the bottom.
If it’s newly created debt that funds the UBI, the concomitant increase in inflation would probably negate the benefit of receiving the UBI.
Read my post above.
Yeah a permanent tax break for the wealthy is pretty much the same result.
At some point you cant tax the poor any more. How many people are on snap. How many house holds have an issue with a surprise 500 dollar bill. At some point you got to tax those with the money. Prob wont happen until the upper middle class is in the lower class range.
I wonder where we would be if we had the same tax rates before regan changed them. .
Let’s imagine we have UBI. 50% of the populace is now on UBI. The average tax on earned income must be 50%. Some will stop work and shift to UBI, Now, the average tax must be 60% on earned income. More quit. Now the tax rate is 75%….
The end result–the living standard is a mere fraction of what it was before UBI.
Yes, it’s a gross simplification, but the Soviets learned the lesson the hard way.
Think of it as money being created out of thin air, a privilege thus far of the government and banks.
Read my post above.
UBI is exactly that. Universal and basic. Everyone gets the same, just enough to survive. If you are on UBI, you won’t have jobs. Vacations will be scheduled five years out–you only have money for 2 days per year…
And to think people think they will have the same living standards as those who actually produce real value.
In my opinion this agreement is another step toward the destruction of our country via fiscal irresponsibility. President Reagan once said the closest thing to eternal life on earth is a government program. We have too many government programs now and adding another form of direct payments to individuals is one more, seemingly small at first, but certain to grow as votes will be needed to maintain power. Government debt which this agreement will exacerbate, is growing faster than GDP so we are not growing our way out of the fiscal mess. If we get the expected economic downturn, tax receipts will diminish while social safety net payouts will increase, also exacerbating the debt and deficit problem. Where are the patriots that will address this nation killing problem? Why can politicians not see the elephant in the room?
Read my post above. How is a 50% discount to everything inflationary? And implementing that policy is the first step in reducing/eliminating entire government bureaucracies.
Let’s imagine it costs $10 to make a widget. Priced at $12, there is a $2 profit. All good–there is motivation to make widgets. Everyone is happy. Lots of widgets for all..
Now, TWC wants a 50% discount. The price is set at $6.00. The maker of widgets loses $4 on every one, and makes no profit. THERE IS NO MOTIVATION.
How hard can it be?
Well, we could end SNAP, Sec 8 housing, low income housing units, WIC, meals on wheels, homeless services, drug rehab, medicaid, vastly increase the cost of medicare, cap SS payouts, end many veterans services, stop mental health services, end ACA, no discounts on drugs, close the assisted living homes, the list goes on.
Then people could starve, work until they die, or just die from illness. The takers would be gone in about 5 years at most.
Then comes Nirvana.
“Then comes Nirvana.”
Yes. Right after the government is overthrown when those cuts are implemented. I’m warming up to your plan.
Now, the test. Can you come up with a solution?
Trump was booed by gov workers during DC Commanders game. Chuck trades Obamacare subsidies for them. SNAPs are governors responsibility to poor people in their states. The dems forgot about the illegals. The gov might give bonuses to docs who promote preventive medicine and to their patients if they stop buying junk food, snacks, soda, exercise, cut butt and visceral fat. Hakeem might not cave in. Mike Johnson wants to cut subsidies and gov payroll. Trump has $1.5T and $3T of unused credit in his coffer. He can function without Chuck and Hakeem. The dems feasted on Obamacare blueberries and now it’s time to hibernate in a cave until March.
Without cutting Obamacare subsidies it will be hard to cut debt. Trump can cut gov pet projects without cutting payroll by much (many bought a package). He can cut SNAP from states which misbehave.
Just suggesting cutting debt is a current/near future possibility is completely bonkers.
Until the states sue… The farce that is politics.
Seriously, the obvious answer is single payer. The lesser of all evils. This is all bullshit and making us circle the drain faster. Trump just loves to give out money like he did during covid hoping it will make him more popular being the narcissist he is.
People toss around single payer like means something besides ‘bigger government.’
Has ‘government’ ever willingly gone on a cost cutting exercise and returned the savings to the people?
More government means more Federal debt. Why? It has no reason not to waste. In fact, the bigger it gets, the more opportunities for promotion and higher salaries…
ending the shutdown? its about weapons
https://www.rt.com/news/627536-us-shutdown-stalls-arms-ukraine/
I really wish people would stop calling health insurance “health care.” Insurance is neither care nor a guarantee of care. In fact, the main purpose of insurance is to find ways to limit actual care.
Plus it is the main instrument of financing Rockefeller medicine which certainly does not have a patient’s health in its focus. Life prolonging perhaps, if you’re dead it’s bad for turnover.
You had it spot on until “the main purpose of insurance is to find ways to limit actual care”
Why do people carry home insurance? Because – after a fire – they can’t afford a new home with cash.
Why do people elect to have comprehensive car insurance? Because they can’t/don’t want to pay for a full-cost car replacement after a wreck
Why do people have/need health insurance? Because they can’t afford to pay out of pocket to fight a deadly cancer or degenerative bone/tissue disease
Insurance is the handy villain of our times. And no, I’m not in the insurance business, or close to anyone who is.
Car insurance is required by law. You must pay for it to drive.
Homeowner insurance is required by all mortgage companies. You must pay for it in the amount the mortgage company requires.
If your home burns down you will likely be paid only 30% of your policy total. If you can afford to rebuild out of pocket you might get most of the funds you spend.
I have had health insurance for years that has uniformly provided me superior, handy, quick-response, affordable, courteous care. I’m sorry, but that’s my actual experience.
Insurance requires a premium for a ‘known’ risk and shares it among others with the same risk. Pooling the premia provides the funds to cover the loss when it occurs.
Obamacare was not insurance. Risk was never a factor. Age, lifestyle etc were NOT factors in determining the premium. It was merely socializing the cost of healthcare for those who could not afford it.
The problem is the actual cost of healthcare when everyone demands the best.
If the US wasn’t so fat, the cost of healthcare would be much lower.
FACT! In 2021, the average annual health costs for people with obesity were approximately $12,588, compared to $4,699 for those without obesity.
You’re right – it is the beginning of UBI. In a form that’s not too obvious. Next civil war on Twitter will be “who deserves more of it”. Behind it of course is Elon Musk who has been supporting it all along.
The next questions might be “should the beneficiaries of AI pay tax to support those hurt by it?” or “should UBI be the same in NY and Nebraska?” … OR … “If advanced AI acts like a conscious being, does it deserve autonomy and the right to own property?“.
We’re entering a crazy world, and just as a start, because UBI is mathematically wrong.
Not the start of anything We have plenty of tax credits that already look like UBI The EIC, Obamacare credits, child tax credit, dependent care credit etc That being said this agreement last night definitely did not add to the list and I highly doubt the December vote will be the start of any law that gets enacted.
That’s a good point, you can receive some tax credit as a check even if you didn’t pay taxes. Thanks for the good comment..
the tax code is the directions to the game of life. so many free shit army give aways. it’s a great thing for those that understand the directions and play for greatest affect. of course everyone gets out of life what they want. even losers. losers win by losing. i think the IRS code is a great thing. the freebies have been stupendous. the obvious is owning real estate as a business. so much more.
Maybe it’s just me, but everybody trying to happily hand others the dinner check just doesn’t seem like a sound model for business or government or society.
The business and wealthy tax credits we should keep. The CEOs need a raise.
Bingo and many cities and states have done or are doing straight up UBI.
Getting rid of the tax credits used by the working poor to upper middle class would increase Gov income. We should do that.
AI and robots need to pay an income tax like any employee-theres the ticket. The income generated by the human will be the income applied to AI. Amazon will have to pay per robot/drone/ AI bot.
The money then goes to UBI and to those who fall under redundancy due to technical advances or perhaps to free training for jobs AI cannot do like fix your car, rewire you house,.plumbing and other trades. Then we become the robots!
There will be no UBI. People will just have to get loans to go to school to be retrained for other jobs.
UBI began when the Fed was allowed to create money out of thin air and distribute it to the government and to banks.
Mish is wrong No UBI in text of bill
No HSA or FSA enhancements
Zero nada
I can’t find any mention of it either in a handful of articles.
Only thing I can find is that TACO is supporting the idea….Maybe it will be voted on in December.
Mish did not say that UBI was in the text of the bill.
See my big post above.
“See my big post above.” How many times are you going to repeat that? Do you think people might have anything better to do than minutes of their lives spent reading it again and again? Your original post was squirrely enough to start with.
Correct, Mish is speculating based on what he thinks will happen next. There is nothing like UBI in the bill and no handouts to compensate for Obamacare subsidies going away, at least not yet.
I wouldn’t bet against Mish in the long run, though. He’s usually right especially about GOP clowns caving and spending like drunken sailors. Taco is already yammering about $2000 checks being mailed out from tariff revenue, so we know that the groundwork is being laid.
This is why I am apolitical. I see people debating which “party” is the winner or loser here. Which certainly does not matter to me. What matters to me is how this might affect those I care about and how we can take advantage of it, if possible.
Now; time for something more important. My morning run. Bye for now.
Absolutely. Read my big post above.
it is impossible to be apolitical. whether you like it or not politics affects you.
Of course politics affects me. Which is why I pay attention to what the government does so I can take advantage wherever possible.
But it does not mean that I have to get involved in politics, belong to or support any party, or vote. And I sure don’t care which political party is the “winner” in any debate. What a waste of time.
I will leave that debate to the cultists.
Of course DC and all the statist suckerfish were taken care of in exchange for Kaine’s vote. 100% backpay for a full month of non-work for many AND anyone terminated to remove waste was immediately put back in place. As you point out Mish, once started it will persist. You can see how Big Government ensures it NEVER shrinks. These direct payments won’t either as the extension will be in the crosshairs in the midterms and will be fully guranteed to continue forever. There’s no stopping the eventual default.
Yes, the best part of the shutdown was getting rid of some unneeded federal workers, which saves taxpayers money going forward. But of course that is unacceptable to the DC cartel who all feed at the taxpayer trough.
$2500 Doge dividend
$2000 Tariff bonus
$???? HSA scrip
So many promises
Trump has to do what is is best at, driving up debt while offering basically zero value in his services.
Sometimes a “win” is dangerous
The GOP has proven they will shut down government and hold the sword of hunger over the population (and air-traffic shutdowns) in order to make medical care more expensive for a significant portion of the population
good stance going into 2026-lets see what shenanigans Johnson has iplanted in his mind from his evenings in
the dog catching the car comes to mind
“go after the big insurers”? ha, just like Israel, the insurers have buttered the bread of the politicians for years.
only a serious dismantling and restructuring of the healthcare payments system is needed
I hope jimmy’s cancer goes away with the “Dr RFKjr” drops they bought on line with that HSA money….all new sources of income for the scammers…HSA dollars are gravy to the healthy and a pittance to the ill
talk about “getting what you voted for” and hard!!
The enhanced Obamacare subsidies did not reduce the cost of health care, just like the EV subsidies did not reduce the cost of EVs. The subsidies merely shifted the costs from consumers to the debt. The Democrat plan was to eventually shift cost to billionaires as though the financially most successful would not change their investment and other choices if Democrats tried to confiscate their wealth and income. Moreover, the subsidies ensure that producers have no incentives to reduce costs.
Obamacare, as voted, wasn’t designed to reduce the overall cost of health care. It was designed to reduce the costs to individuals. It has been very successful at that. There were originally two provisions to help reduce the cost of insurance: a “public option” which would have created a floor price from the federal government designed to force competition in the highly oligopolistic insurance industry (rejected by key moderate Senate Democrats) and a provision to force younger people into the market to provide a larger pool of healthier recipients paying in (cut by the first Trump administration). The Citizens United decision by conservative members of the Supreme Court ensured that US healthcare system costs will never be contained.
Bingo! We have a winner!
Sure, but as an ordinary ACA consumer what is the impact? “nice job on the government debt, but I have $600000 in medical debt from Jimmy’s cancer”
I know perfectly well that the primary reason for “medical costs” being so high is the insurance process that burns up about 1/3 of the cost.
You know damn well who is buttering the politicians bread, so chances of real reform are slim until everything is irretrievably broken
I won’t have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won’t have to worry about paying my mortgage. You know, if I help him, he’s gonna help me.
– I won’t have to worry about putting gas in my car.
> That’s too bad, you must have fallen for the EV “Jump The Shark” moment. Your not alone…
– I won’t have to worry about paying my mortgage.
> Not until they come after you, and everyone else. That may take a bit
– You know, if I help him, he’s gonna help me.
> You know, if You Help Yourself, You Won’t Need Him!
The America voter was turning solidly to the left. The eight turncoat Democrats (DINOs) couldn’t stand the thought of the new America around the corner so they have to do everything they can to protect the status quo.
Any Democrat trusting a MAGA or other Republican congress person to a future agreement is just plain stupid. This is a solid Republican win as they will never honestly negotiate anything and will only follow Taco as he swings from one extreme to the other.
the GOP has proven they will do anything for their plutocratic plans in an election year
the question is whether the autocratic part can run fast enough to protect the plutocratic part
<<The America voter was turning solidly to the left.>>
But without knowing what that is. The traditional Left in Europe used to be associated with hard work, almost zero demands, social responsibility, and a sense of uniformity/social homogeneity – no millionaires, etc.
The New American Left is not that. They seem to lean towards “Oh, you just came from Uzbekistan as a trainee photographer, and you want a high-class New York apartment? Of course, no problem, you should be able to just get it“.
They will always be disappointed with real life, and always complaining.
There is no UBI in any shape or form in the Bill.
The only mention of healthcare was that there is going to be a VOTE on a bill brought forth by the Democrats in mid-December. This from other news organizations.
This bill doesn’t add any extra spending at all unless you include the reinstatement of fired employees as such.
It is pretty much complete capitalization on the part of the Democrats.
I think that the increase in interest rates and the price of gold has to do with Trump wanting to rebate $2k per person from the tariff funds.
Maybe it is time people really feel what they voted for in Trump
Because only banks may be the recipients of UBI from the Fed in the form of interest on reserves, themselves created out of thin air by the very same banks.
Right. Change that…with Wisdomics-Gracenomics. Read my big post above.
The “tell” is that both interest rates and gold are up significantly as we prepare for another spiral of the debt vultures on this vortex of fiscal hot air.
A debt downgrade for the US is all but baked into this from Fitch and S&P citing the “Dysfunctional Governance” of the Trump administration.
Exactly where are the fiscal conservatives of the Republican Party? Are they hiding under the Epstein rock trying to protect themselves from the fallout of the upcoming vote? I have news for them, that rock is not going to protect them, it will crush them…
The GOP is no longer conservative. It is a populist party (semi-socialist) now. Republicans can’t wait for their $2000 free money checks, that’s why you vote for Trump. To hell with the Republic.
down votes from conservatives who either don’t recognize what a handout is, or want the handout but to still be considered fiscally sane.
Yep. A lot of Trump voters can’t wait for their $2000 leech bux.
The government shutdown was all orchestrated theatre to pump more money into the system to stave off collapse. You have to be delusional to think a $35 billion one time offer was unacceptable but far higher costs all good. I mean come on. The US will keep spending unsustainable amounts till the whole system collapses. Only an idiot will believe this theatre. Watch the debt skyrocket above $40 trillion in months.
Sorry, used wrong email so reposted, that comment can be deleted.
The government shutdown was all orchestrated theatre to pump more money into the system to stave off collapse. You have to be delusional to think a $35 billion one time offer was unacceptable but far higher costs all good. I mean come on. The US will keep spending unsustainable amounts till the whole system collapses. Only an idiot will believe this theatre. Watch the debt skyrocket above $40 trillion in months.
“You have to be delusional to think a $35 billion one time offer was unacceptable but far higher costs all good. I mean come on. ”
This is exactly my point.
Are you agreeing with me? I can’t tell.
Reads to me like he’s agreeing with you, Mish.
Thanks for hosting this blog, BTW, and putting up with the insults and ridicule from the insipid partisans.
Since “WHO’S PAYING FOR THIS” is clearly answered by the phrase: “MORE DEBT” – – then why keep asking?
Everything’s OK.
You’re fine.
Next generation will pay for it.
UBI is a good thing Mish, you just need a wealth tax besides it to balance the books and you’re good to go.
You can also quasi nationalize healthcare by essentially allowing anyone to go to any hospital without insurance and just pay $20 to see a doctor. The bill would then go to a consortium of insurance companies, and the premiums would be paid by the government. To keep costs in check, the premiums would also be set by the government, kind of like Medicare for all.
I will answer the question BEGGED by your statement: …”To keep costs in check, the premiums would also be set by the government, kind of like Medicare for all.”
THE keeping “COSTS in CHECK” is negotiated by lobbyists representing big interests and the PEOPLE are not “BIG” enough.
Why quasi nationalize health care. Obamacare is already quasi nationalized health insurance and it’s garbage. We are headed to national healthcare, let’s just get there and stop pissing around.
Most folks who have Medicare, TriCare and use the VA rate their “insurance” more highly than those who use Obamacare or employer provided insurance. Those are truly nationalized healthcare systems.
I’ve owned a couple of companies. The annual increase in health insurance costs is incredibly dramatic compared to all your other budget line items.
As a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, I came to the conclusion that a crummy, nationally-paid-for healthcare system is just a matter of time.
Looks like it’s going to happen in the next couple of years. This current paroxysm of angst is just the beginning.
Every Healthcare Place in the. country, would immediately be overrun with people waving $20 in their hands. Many, not having seen a doctor in over a decade (I know a few), would be in line. Your first year of bills would override the system, and crash the Medical Industry. Prescriptions wouldn’t/couldn’t be filled fast enough. Lines everywhere and chaos galore!
Ramping up to meet the overwhelming demand, would assure the need for more Doctors, Nurses, and Medical in Training Individuals. Care would take a hit, proper diagnosis could suffer due to rushing, and less test to speed things along as necessary. Baby Boomers alone would clog up the system. Hell, some just want someone to talk too, and $20 is a cheap day out, to speak to the masses in the lobby. I am not so sure this is a viable option to even consider, but something needs to change for sure, and on this I agree!!
Idk if you realize this but the number of Americans without health insurance has been more than halved since Obamacare was started. Only something like 8% of Americans don’t have health insurance, which is the lowest number in US history. And all ACA Plans include yearly wellness visits.
– Only something like 8% of Americans don’t have health insurance?
>
We have roughly 30 Million Uninsured Americans.
We have roughly 70 Million covered via Medicaid.
We have roughly 50 Million covered via Snap.
We have roughly 10 Million covered by S/S Disability.
We have roughly … The numbers are everywhere!!
Who Pays? American Taxpayers!!!