Only Eight ICU Beds Left in Arkansas, Texas Hospitals Near Capacity

Congratulations to Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Texas for leading the nation in new covid cases per million population.

Data from Worldometers.

New Deaths Per Million

Congratulations to Louisiana and Mississippi for being 1-2 in boths cases and deaths per million. 

Texas need to try harder. It was only number 5 and 8. 

Only Eight ICU Beds in Arkansas

People in Their 20s are on Ventilators

In Texas, Hospitals Are Near Capacity as Covid-19 Surges Again.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday asked hospitals to delay elective medical procedures, as rising Covid-19 cases bring hospitals in many parts of the nation’s second-largest state to capacity.

In Austin, city and county officials used an emergency alert system over the weekend to text and call residents with the warning that the hospital situation is critical, as the number of available intensive care unit beds in a metro area of more than two million residents dwindled to single digits. In Houston, hospitals are into surge capacity and local officials tracking the city’s wastewater system are finding evidence of higher-than-ever levels of Covid-19.

The upswing in Texas Covid-19 cases mirrors that of other nearby states as the Delta variant of the virus surges through southern states with relatively low vaccination rates. 

William McKeon, chief executive of Houston’s Texas Medical Center, a group of 60 hospitals that comprise the world’s largest medical district, said the current surge of Covid-19 patients has risen far faster than previous ones and he believes it will get worse. The number of Covid-19 hospitalizations has increased to about 9,500 this week, approaching a previous high of about 14,000 in January. People in their 20s are on ventilators, Mr. McKeon said.

All of [the hospitals] are saying the same thing: We have never seen a surge like this before,” he said. “We have never seen them sicker when they walk through the door. We have never seen them younger. And they just keep coming.”

Wastewater Tracking

Houston, the country’s fourth-largest city with 2.3 million people, has developed a sophisticated system of tracking Covid-19 in the city’s sewer system, through weekly testing at 38 city wastewater plants. Tracking began during the first major surge of the virus, in July 2020. Last week, it measured 320% of the Covid-19 levels seen then—the highest, by far, since the pandemic began.

“The wastewater is a bellwether,” said Loren Hopkins, chief environmental science officer for the Houston Health Department, who said Covid-19 usually registers in wastewater a week or more before a person tests positive for the virus. “The numbers really are exponentially increasing.”

The wastewater data can be more accurate than testing data, because it registers Covid-19 being shed by people who may be asymptomatic or never get tested, Dr. Hopkins said. Local health officials are using it to target where to send educational and vaccine outreach, and are doing sampling at specific manholes to track Covid-19 rates in schools.

Reflections on Hypotheses

Untested Hypothesis 

I do not doubt for a second that obesity and age play into problems.

But the faith Milton has in his hypothesis of his immune system vs mountains of real data is problematic. 

As long as we are going to hypothesize, what about the possibility that healthy unvaccinated super-fit people might also be super spreaders?

Regardless, anyone who claims the short term efficacy of vaccinations is “increasingly murky” is off their rocker. 

Dear Anti-Vaxxers Let’s Discuss the Best Covid Data That Exists Anywhere

The data is crystal clear. 

In case you missed it, please consider Dear Anti-Vaxxers Let’s Discuss the Best Covid Data That Exists Anywhere

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Mike 2112
Mike 2112
2 years ago
“The data is clear.”
All 8 months of it?
 
Last summer was a covid lull without a vax. This yr we vax and we get a summer outbreak. But we dont discuss the possibility that these are related because Shut up it’s SCIENCE!
LukeHartwig
LukeHartwig
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
No, b/c correlation is not causation. Lots of factors in the COVID lulls, between stay at home orders, general anxiety, protests, elections, etc. Its clearly an outbreak amongst the unvaccinated. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  LukeHartwig
Booster shots are not for the unCovaxxinated. Some Covaxxinated people are getting infected and sick.
FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
2 years ago
There are no men left anymore. Just panty-wetting neurotics with testicles the size of grapes that jump up on a chair and screech when you cough their way. 
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
they all think they are gonna live FOREVER….SO TAKE EVERY POISON SHOT AVAILABLE !!..And more when almost finished Joe tells you toe !
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Watershed Testing & Flu Shots
The watershed testing is something that is a great example of why folks (rightly) see CoVID as needs more attention and should be part of a national initiative to expand collection points and monitoring.  
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
   fdfddffd
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
“Only Eight ICU Beds Left in Arkansas”
That’s just an outright lie. There are 732 ICU beds left in Arkansas.
FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
2 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Looking at the replies in the comment section on this garbage topic indicates to me that no one is buying this horse manure anymore. No one.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Then why did your governor say there were 8, as of Monday morning?
I suppose it’s a vast conspiracy between the global elites and your local award-winning Little Rock newspaper? 
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
Age is a HUGE factor in COVID cases and deaths. Here are charts with data from Connecticut.
Number of COVID-19 Cases per 100,000 by Age Groups
Number of COVID-19 Confirmed Deaths per 100,000 by Age Groups
People younger than 60 years of age make up most of the cases, which makes sense because the workplace involve closer contact with people and for a prolonged period of time. The number of cases by ages (20 to 59) of working people is between 45 and 50%.  Given the number of cases for the (0-19) group is much less than the (20-59) group, and the (0-19) is dependent on the (20-59) group, the lower number of cases for the (0-19) group has to be attributed a better immune system and general health.
People older than 60 make up 91.6% of confirmed COVID deaths, which makes sense since older people are less healthy in general.
At the other end of spectrum are school age kids (0 to 20 years old) who had 4 out of 200000 people in that age range die.
That’s 0.002% of the youth population. 4 youth deaths is 0.06% of the entire state’s 6828 COVID deaths. 
The percent of deaths is 6828 per 900K = 0.759%
That’s the math using the state’s numbers. Those are the worst numbers because someone who died of a heart attack and then tested positive for COVID still is counted as a COVID death. Co-morbidities were not part of the data set.
For COVID policy to align with with these numbers the government should:
1.) Allow all students to attend school without masks or vaccines.
2.) Continue to offer vaccines for everyone, but encourage senior citizens and those with poorer health to get vaccinated
3.) Encourage senior citizens and those with poorer health to wear masks when indoors and in crowds.
4.) Suspend all mask mandates because those younger than 60 have pretty much achieved herd immunity as demonstrated by surviving. And those wanting a vaccine will have gotten one.
5.) Mask health care and first responders until voluntarily vaccinated, but mandate vaccination only after a vaccine has gone through a non fast-tracked review. (2-3 years from now)
Fear is driving the COVID issue. Lack of critical thinking skills and respect on the part of elected officials are making things worse. I hope Massachusetts is happy with reinstating a mask mandate because it just cost them a couple thousand $$$ in tourism from the trip I was going to book for September.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
While it is true that older people make up most of the deaths from Covid, it is also true that middle aged people make up a higher percentage of deaths from Covid than they do of other deaths. Thus, the increase in mortality was higher for them than for the old. People from 25-50 rarely die, so it doesn’t take a lot of deaths in the 25-50 category to change their numbers significantly, which is exactly what happened. I presume that life insurance prices rose more this year for 25-50 year olds than then did for 50-70 year olds.
As for whether a person who died of a heart attack should be counted as a Covid death, I presume you realize covid never kills directly. It kills by causing other problems, primarily heart, lung, and kidney, but also sometimes other things like as liver, stroke, etc. Because deciding whether a person who died of a heart attack was actually a Covid death is not really possible to do with consistent accuracy, the “counts” of deaths are for amusement only. Just as has been done for every other pandemic in history, the official death toll, ultimately, will be based on excess deaths, rather than counts. Excess deaths are about 20% higher than the “counts”, meaning that more Covid deaths have been missed than those who were counted in error. That’s exactly what you would expect, as there are a lot more ways to miss a death than there are ways to count a death which shouldn’t be counted.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
The CDC will ultimately make up the numbers they want and the MSM will parrot them as gospel.  Any dissention will be ignored.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The CDC will compute the numbers the same way that they have for every other pandemic in the past. That will produce numbers that can be directly compared to prior pandemics.
Because Covid has become very politicized, expect other people to make up other numbers using methods that suit their political views. Because we live in the Disinformation Age, numbers made up by Joe Blow will have equal standing to the CDC numbers, and, if the numbers are low enough to suit the purposes of some political subgroup, they will be spread as “Truth”. Even better, expect the low numbers produced by the Joe Blow method to be compared to high numbers from prior pandemics that were computed by the standard CDC method, so that Joe’s followers can say “see, Covid wasn’t so bad”. We used to call this dissembling, or even lying, but in the Disinformation age, it’s just standard practice.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
But, but, but Biden had a plan.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
….the US is a exceptional nation of course, a nation not minding blatant lies when  considered convenient, history shows ….I d rather suggest, if you want realistic more trustworthy numbers, to have a look at RECENT official Israeli data. Israel being the exemplary vaccination pioneer is now hospitalising 50% fully vaxxed Covid patients ! 
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
Just because you wish something was true doesn’t make it true. Approximately 40,000 people in Israel have tested positive in the last two weeks. 650 people are currently hospitalized for Covid. While I don’t have a breakdown by whether they have been vaccinated or not,  the average is that about 1.5% of people who test positive are hospitalized, far lower than early in the pandemic, and nowhere close to 50%.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
Perhaps you worded your thought poorly? Maybe you are trying to say that 50% of the patients hospitalized are coming from the 85% who are vaccinated, while the other 50% are coming from the 15% who are not? If so, that may well be true, and that would be consistent with the data from the UK, and would show that the vaccine is 80-90% effective at preventing hospitalizations, about the same as they found in the UK.
FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
And with a mortality rate far less than 1% there will be a group of people with stronger natural immunity and a group of cowardly lab rats who will need clot jabs the rest of their lives in order to assuage their fears. No one likes a coward. No one. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“As long as we are going to hypothesize, what about the possibility that
healthy unvaccinated super-fit people might also be super spreaders?”
A fully Covaxxinated LAPD cop was in Cedars-Sinai last week, with Covid induced pneumonia. Fully Covaxxinated Reba McEntire announced she has Covid. It is known that Covaxxinated people can be infected and infect others, which i guess would include to other Covaxxed. Hypothetically, the next variant could be from a Covaxxed immune escape to a Covaxxed, with the variant overcoming the Vax altogether. Geert Vandenbosche said that you don’t vaccinate into a pandemic. He was ignored. The rule is, don’t follow the science, parrot the official narrative.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“Only Eight ICU Beds Left in Arkansas, Texas Hospitals Near Capacity”
Ivermectin, which has anti viral properties, would solve much of that problem. However, doctors are generally not allowed to treat patients. Quarantine, if you are gasping for breath, go to the hospital. The one person i know personally, who contracted Covid prior to Delta, was only given an antibiotic, due to previous bronchial infections.
It is not the fault of the uncovaxxed that doctors won’t treat them on an outpatient basis, with off label anti-viral drugs, resulting in some of them being hospitalized. It is the fault of the FDA. They don’t care about people’s health, they only care about their Big Pharma agenda.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
I just picked up a supply of Ivermectin in the form of horse dewormer from Amazon, just in case I might need it.  Now looking to get some fluvoxamin also.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
there are sooo many products out there I really can t see the forest for the trees no longer : Bamlanivimab, Casirivimab, Quercetin, Remsidivir,Clarithromizin, Azythromizin,Hydrchloroquine, Budesonide, Dexamethasone, Suramin, Nac, and many more if you can be bothered to check…. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
“As long as we are going to hypothesize, what about the possibility that healthy unvaccinated super-fit people might also be super spreaders?”
——-
Based on what science?  Asymptomatic transmission?  I don’t know how many times I have posted this link here from way back in April 2020 from the WHO confirming that asymptomatic transmission has not been lab proven.  Repeating the same bogus info because you WANT it to be true is what the MSM does daily and is just another form of misinformation.
Asymptomatic transmission
An asymptomatic laboratory-confirmed  case is  a person  infected with COVID-19 who  does  not develop  symptoms.
There are few  reports of  laboratory-confirmed  cases who are truly  asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission. This does not exclude the possibility that it may occur. Asymptomatic cases have been reported as part of contact tracing efforts in some countries. 
WHO regularly monitors all emerging evidence about this critical topic and will provide an update as more information becomes available.
Rene_FPV
Rene_FPV
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
That is literally a straw man argument.  You inserted “Asymptomatic Transmission” into the conversation and then proceeded to tear it to shreds.  “Asymptomatic Transmission” isn’t even mentioned in your quote from Mish.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Rene_FPV
If you had an IQ over 90, you would understand that “what about the possibility that healthy unvaccinated super-fit people might also be super spreaders?” refers to asymptomatic transmission.  D’oh.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
It’s ok. The data can’t be believed anyway, because a lot of states are trying to avoid accurately reporting the data, anyway.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Like Florida, where reported new infections are 7k higher than the peak they reported last January?
Which time were they lying more, then or now, do you think?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
We just had to have the CDC adjust the numbers in the last couple of days because they made a mistake so the number of cases went way down.
I do wonder how many people are no longer bothering to be tested if they had the vaccine or previously had Covid. For example I had it in January and know what to look for so if I get the same symptoms again I’m unlikely to re-test because I already know whether I’d be positive or not. People who have been vaccinated may not test because they think it doesn’t matter.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The numbers are still very disturbing. The recount for Monday does not affect the nearly 24K new case count from last Friday, for instance.  
Thanks for pointing that out. More here, for those who might want to know.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I have been vaccinated. I got tested because I believed I would test positive, which I did. The reason for the test was simple: I didn’t want to infect others if I was positive.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
What is going on in China is much more interesting in my thinking. The future of covid is in the rest of the world. Here it is under pretty much control.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Delta is a challenge for China, but it helps in matters of public health compliance when you can shoot the laggards who won’t get vaccinated.
I expect China to get a handle on things….if only because they can lock down for months if need be.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Some people here would like to shoot people who refuse to get the vaccine too. In China with the Delta variant lockdowns will not work as well but they do have a couple of vaccines which are not that good but may be good enough. From what I understand they are about as effective as flu shots. The last time they had hard lockdowns. This time I think that if it gets wild they will just let it run and manage the narrative rather than the disease. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
It has become increasingly politicized, which gives individuals moral authority (in their own opinion) to “adjust” the numbers as they see fit, without any cognitive dissonance. I believe the numbers less and less as time goes by.
ILHawk
ILHawk
2 years ago
Wow Mish.  Look at Israel.  Look at the numbers just coming out about the Pfizer effectiveness.  We should be looking at natural immunity, not inoculation.  Don’t throw idiots into the same bandwagon as those looking at this realistically. 
Are you denying there could not be corporate interests in the vaccines?  Do your research on Roundup.  How many times was it said, Roundup is fine?  Research said it right?  Don’t be a sheep.  Don’t be an idiot either, but don’t be a sheep.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Israel. 
The Pfizer vaccine is so far 90% effective in preventing serious disease in the vaxxed population.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Yes, but as we are seeing now from recent data (e.g. PTown, MA), the vaccines are not killing the virus and vaccinate people are testing positive and acting as spreaders to others.  Then there is the question as to what vascular damage the spike protein created/replicated by these vaccines may cause over the long-term, which won’t be known for years, at best..
Additionally, while the mRNA vaccines may reduce the possibility of winding up in the hospital, the percentage of people with Covid who had to go to the hospital wasn’t especially high anyway.
About 200 staff members at a San Francisco hospital and the U.C.S.F. health system have tested positive.
Between 75 and 80 percent of staff members who tested positive for the coronavirus at Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital were fully vaccinated.
July 31, 2021
Staff members at both hospitals have continued to wear personal protective equipment, Dr. Day said. But the number of staff infections reported in July is about as many as during the peak of the winter surge.
“We’re nervous that we could potentially exceed it,” Dr. Day said.
Shrp-Blond
Shrp-Blond
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
PTown, MA was a unique situation that can not be used to extrapolate to the broader population.  It was BEAR WEEK.  Thousands of gay men were packed into bars and partying.  The weather was dreadful, forcing most the crowd to pack tightly inside.  It could not have been a worse environment. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Shrp-Blond
Yes, but it does show the potential for what is possible when people return to living their normal lives, which are what the gay population and most younger people will be doing sooner rather than later.  Most people are not going to bunker down and live in fear forever.
The mRNA vaccines are not a good solution for the long-term. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
One study did show that a small amount of spikes do leave the muscles and enter the bloodstream, at barely detectable levels on about day 4 and day 5 after innoculation, but then they were gone. That isn’t surprising, as the body only produces the spikes for a short time. A second study showed that when very large amounts of spikes were present, they could damage the vascular wall. The levels used in the second study were 100,000 higher than the levels actually detected in the first study. Taken together, what can you conclude from these two studies? Not much.
ILHawk
ILHawk
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
You stand corrected:  link to reuters.com
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
No, son. No I do not stand corrected, There is nothing in that linked article that is contrary to anything I said. You’re reading more into it than is there. 
I got the Moderna, personally, but the Pfizer continues to protect patients from serious disease, Here, Israel, everywhere it has been given. No exceptions. Read for comprehension.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
What’s with the “son” crap you’ve been using lately to talk down to people?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Sorry, but I just don’t suffer fools gladly.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Maybe vaccines affected by diminishing returns?
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
2 comments.  First, notice that these are ALSO the states where the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, thousands or tens of thousands of whom are COVID-positive (we will never know of course because they aren’t tested or assessed in any way) are being let loose by the Biden administration.  Second, you do realize that these are also states with large african-american and hispanic populations, the two groups with the lowest vaccination rates. 
Jmurr
Jmurr
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
You can certainly understand their reticence given our country dismal record in that regard. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
More crap.
First, the “immigrant spread”  issue as suggested by the genius governor of Florida……has been completely debunked,
Second, 57% of unvaccinated people are white. For the math-challenged…….that’s more than half.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
LOLOLOLOL.  AP, as a debunker.  Ahhhhh.  Sigh.  AP isnt worth the bits they use to “print” their drivel.  The “debunking” in that article is a few local health people simply asserting that it isnt migrants.  Which debunks nothing.  I do not KNOW what the numbers are for the tens of thousands of incoming illegals (for the record I am STRONGLY pro-immigrant, just not the way it is being done right now), but a few off-the-cuff remarks in an article by a discredited news organization isnt proof of anything.  But simple curiosity would lead one to believe it would be an issue.  Good luck getting any real data on it from anyone, least of all any organization in the MSM.
Second, the link you provide says nothing about percentage of each demographic vaccinated.  So let me help you, for the internet-challenged.  link to covid.cdc.gov
Of course that is meaningless, as we are talking about certain states, not the US as a whole.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
Sigh indeed.
First.
According to local people in South Texas (like judges) who should know better than anybody, there are more legal asylum -seeking immigrants being released into the US than there are illegals making it across right now. And those people are tested and quarantined if positive. That much I do know.
And though I often disagree with the editorial spin of the Associated Press, I would not call them a discredited news organization. They fall left of center, in the same group as Bloomberg, the NYT, Politico, The Economist, and the Guardian. That does not make them blatant liars by any means.
In comparison, Fox News doesn’t just LEAN right..they are FAR right. Along with Newsmax and the Daily Caller.
Second, the percentages of ethnic groups vaccinated is not particularly relevant, compared to the gross numbers of unvaccinated people, as far as spreading virus. So your link doesn’t prove anything. Yes, I agree more Black and Hispanic people need to get vaccinated, if you want to argue that. But it proves nothing about how the virus is spreading.
Suggestion? Lose the LOL’s. 
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Suggestion? Get rid of the personal bias. Being left or FAR right does not make for more or less accuracy.
grazzt
grazzt
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
For the math challenged – Over 60% of the US population is White. If only 57% of the unvaccinated Americans are White, then they are actually outperforming being vaccinated than non-Whites. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  grazzt
Are you really going to go there, Einstein?
What we’re discussing here…the entire point of the argument, is whether COVID is being spread disproportionately by non-whites due to low vax rates.. I just showed that is a statistical impossibility. Go directly to math jail, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Here.  Try this on vaccine hesitancy,
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
‘Completely debunked’ is a gross overstatement. I suspect the following quote: “But public health experts say arriving migrants are not driving the rising infections in the U.S.” reeks of political bias. Who are these “public health experts?”
One is Dr. Ivan Melendez, who serves as the local health authority in Hidalgo County, Texas
Another is Dr. Joseph McCormick, a physician and former CDC epidemiologist.
Their actual statements read like OPINION, not based on specific research, or any tracing of contacts.  OPINION is NOT FACT
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
I predicted as much a few months ago.  Vaccination rates in my area are ~70% and the ICU is still full.  Unless we get closer to vaccination rates of 90-95%, the ICU is still going to be overwhelmed. My wife is a surgeon and all surgeries are cancelled until further notice because there is a 50% chance of death if you get Covid and get surgery at the same time. The unvaccinated should be sent the ICU hospital bills and told this is what the cost of not getting vaccinated is. 
Blurtman
Blurtman
2 years ago
The vaccinated can transmit the virus, and are responsible for the development of vaccine escape variants, which are causing the vaccinated in Israel, the UK and other heavily vaccinated countries to be hospitalized.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Blurtman
“The vaccinated can transmit the virus, and are responsible for the development of vaccine escape variants, “
Crap. Total crap. Show me the data that supports that. Spoiler….there is none.
Once again…It is reasonable to assume this COULD be a possible issue in the future….but there is no evidence it has happened yet. The Delta variant came from India, and it popped up way too soon for it to have been caused by the vaccines. 
And from our experience from other vaccines, there is no conclusive evidence that viral evolution related to the vaccines will ever be a clinically significant problem. It’s an unknown.  It hasn’t been a problem with the Hepatitis B vaccine, which another non-sterilizing vaccine that has been in use since I was in school which is to say a long time. That’s the closest analog there is to compare to, AFAIK.
Peter_from_Dallas
Peter_from_Dallas
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I think that original statement wasn’t phrased as accurately as it could have been.  The virus can and will mutate in any human or animal where it can replicate.  We know these vaccines aren’t sterilizing, so the vaccinated can become infected and replicate the virus inside them.  The selection pressure on the virus is inside of anyone is for the virus to find a mutation that makes it spread more easily.  In the vaccinated, that translates into choosing the mutations that best allow it to escape the protection of the vaccines.
So no, the vaccines aren’t causing the mutations, but they could strongly influencing which mutations become the dominate one. 
That could lead to the argument that the best course of action is to vaccinate the most weakest and vulnerable but not anyone else.  That would limit the number of hosts that are driving the virus to pick a vaccine escape variant as the preferred mutation.
BTW – The other non-sterilizing vaccine out there is the original Salk polio shot.  When it was released, they were so worried that the vaccine would encourage the virus to mutate to evade the vaccine, that the developed the oral vaccine.  It was the combination of the two vaccines that helped tame polio.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Look, Peter. I happen to know all that. I also know the Salk vaccine never resulted in any clinically significant vaccine resistant polio. Sadly the Sabin vaccine (which I got) has killed a few people, although it wasn’t because of resistance. Now there’s a new and better oral vaccine. 
There are actually a number of non-sterilizing vaccines.
The only human vaccine I know of that has much an issue with evolutionary adaptation to a vaccine is Pertussis, and it isn’t bad enough to make the vaccine useless as of yet. Not a viral disease either,
I know about Marek’s disease too. Which is the one most concerned scientists mention. I get the concern.
You have no data though. None. just a hypothetical. Had you reperesented it as a hypothetical, it would not have bothered me. But you represented it as an obvious factual conclusion, which it is not.
I get the argument about vaccinating the weak, too. But I don’t agree with it, because there is no data to support that view as of yet. And we have a big problem. People who try to say otherwise are wrong. We are between a rock and a hard place, and we have to take unusual steps. It is justified, in my semi-educated opinion.
None of that is any kind of decent reason for going unvaccinated, if you think it’s good idea to cut COVID back to a manageable disease, so we can get back to normal life.
Blurtman
Blurtman
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
It is hard to believe that an MD could marry such a blockhead.
The CDC itsef has reversed guidance, based upon evolving data demonstrating that the vaccinated can indeed harbor and transmit the virus.
The Washington Post, which obtained the CDC briefing that was given to some members of Congress Thursday, link to washingtonpost.com:

One of the slides states that there is a higher risk among older age groups for hospitalization and death relative to younger people, regardless of vaccination status. Another estimates that there are 35,000 symptomatic infections per week among 162 million vaccinated Americans.

And as people get tested only when feeling symptomatic, or becoming concerned about possible exposure, or as a prerequisite for travel, infection amongst the vaccinated is greatly under-reported. 
Often wrong CDC director Walensky on CNN (so dopey liberals must believe this):  The vaccinated can indeed transmit SARS-CoV-2: link to rumble.com
With regards to mass vaccination with a narrowly defined immunogen establishing evolutionary pressure to encourage the outgrowth of escape variants, where do you think antibotic resistance comes from?  Variants constantly arise, but the vaccine selects for variants that can better survive the narrow immune response generated by these failed mRNA gene therapy technologies.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
That the Delta variant was reported first in India does NOT mean it originated there. It was not so long ago that people were saying the virus came from bats sold at the WUHAN wet market.
Wanna bet Delta came from a Chinese Lab?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
And it’s hard to make living doing surgery when you can’t schedule a case.
This affects da economy, in case anybody is wondering.
Blurtman
Blurtman
2 years ago
Tracks quite well with diabetes prevalence by state and with percent obesity by state.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Blurtman

You always have to laugh the side that is constantly attacking California for it’s welfare addiction has Mississippi with its welfare addiction, lack of education, and obesity rates. California at least as a GDP that rivals most countries out there. Mississippi does not.Red vs. Blue continues to amuse me.

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
If you compare a populous state with a small one you get a not very good comparison. However if we compare sections of the country to one another we find the South has the most population by far and surprisingly the most industry to boot many of which are very high tech. 
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
2 years ago
Reply to  Blurtman
Having experienced summer temperatures in Texas, and also in that geographic parallel, I am surprised obesity isn’t counted as a separate cause of death.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Eventually we will all get it since we now have animal vectors of which dogs and cats are the main reservoirs. Your familiar animal is shedding covid now so don’t expect it to go away soon. What matters is how bad you get it. Hopefully if vaccinated you get by fine. We are down to levels of a really bad flu season now.
By the way I thought Florida was the bad guy on the block but I don’t see it in the figures. What happened?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Florida is horrible and still getting worse.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Louisiana also sucks.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Georgia still looking terrible.
Texas looks bad enough, but I’d point out we are nowhere near the January levels…..We get press because of the gross numbers, being a very populous state.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
And deaths? According to the CDC’s figures Florida deaths have turned down.
I use their site for data. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
To be expected, unless people can’t get a bed at the hospital. Then it might change. Deaths are down everywhere, AFAIK.
This is the only good news associated with the Delta variant….and I don’t think it’s the disease as much as it is improved treatment and vaccinations.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
That is good news. Deaths are down turning even if infections are still rising. It’s a pattern we haven’t seen with covid before. It’s a divergence. We will get to herd immunity one way or the other. Myself I am looking forward to see some serious studies of the covid pandemic in a few years when all the political bull has died down. 
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Deaths are down in the countries that have good vaccines but deaths are rising at a fast clip in the rest of the world. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Funny how that works. 
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
And funnier still how media has tunnel vision.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
In a really bad flu season, the ICU or hospitals are never overwhelmed. You are still kidding yourself. This isn’t the flu. 
mrusa
mrusa
2 years ago
#1 correlation with covid severity/mortality – obesity. 4 out of the top 5 states on your list are in the top 10 for the most obese populations.  Correlation or uneducated conspiracy theory?
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Reply to  mrusa
Share these correlated obesity #s… 
Esclaro
Esclaro
2 years ago
It’s a beautiful thing. My daughter works as a travel nurse and she is making $5000 a week thanks to the surge. Just hope it continues until the end of the year.
oldman45
oldman45
2 years ago
I wonder when Ivermectin will be given its due.
randocalrissian
randocalrissian
2 years ago
The direct correlation between educational attainment and belief in science, leading to getting vaccinated for COVID, is undeniable. These numbers should only surprise very uneducated people suffering from the Dunning-Krueger Effect. See for yourself…
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Wrong!  I am not against vaccinations in general.  I am against the new mRNA/DNA gene therapy shots, which have no long-term safety profile (but will be FDA approved soon anyway because of $$$ being passed under the table). 
Other than keeping people out of the hospital IF they happen to catch Covid in the first place (not a common occurrence), these mRNA/DNA gene therapy (aka vaccine) shots, don’t appear to offer lasting immunity (which is why you’ll need regular booster shots), the immunity they do offer is not as good as natural immunity (which will generally handle variants) and they don’t kill all of the virus, thus allowing vaccinated people to continue to spread Covid virus to others.
“Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”
thimk
thimk
2 years ago
Don’t know if this is a correlation but Texas has been flooded with massive amounts of immigration. One can say with reasonable accuracy that many of these migrants  have not been vaccinated .
Esclaro
Esclaro
2 years ago
Reply to  thimk
I live in Texas and it has nothing to do with migrants. It has to do with idiots like Greg Abbott and the members of the Trump death cult. Personally I am happy to see them all get sick and die. As for ivermectin, I use it to deworm my horses!!!
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
For once we agree, at least with regards to migrants.
I’m not against doctors being able to prescribe Ivermectin, but the waters are really muddy as far as conclusive scientific proof that it works on COVID. I used to use it to worm pigs, but I also took it last year before I got vaccinated. Since then, there has been conflicting evidence offered for its efficacy…and the jury is still out…at least for people who practice evidence based medicine.
I don’t even want Trumpite morons to die from COVID, although we do seem to be seeing some of that happening at the moment. What I want to see is a massive and effective vaccination campaign in this country. It’s still our best bet, regardless of all the what-abouts the anti-vaxxers can come up with.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  thimk
The immigrants end up everywhere, but appear unrelated to the spread Covid. The vaccination rate is a far better indicator, as is the total percentage of the population that has already had covid. That isn’t surprising; you can get immunity from having had Covid, and from vaccination.
xbizo
xbizo
2 years ago
Two questions.  Are we going to have pandemic protocols for every virus with lees than a 0.002% death rate?
Second, why don’t the progressives see COVID deaths as a way to thin out the conservative voters and turn more red states purple? (facetious)
randocalrissian
randocalrissian
2 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Well it IS a way to thin out the red states. However, I don’t know any liberals who are wishing death upon conservatives because they disagree on politics. The IFR of COVID is almost certainly much higher than your number, which appears to count the entire global population and not just infected people. The current CFR is more than 2% globally and still over 1.75% in the USA. Your numbers are based on an unscientific method assuming 100% of the global population has already been infected, so you aren’t even really using science.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
ICUs even in highly vaccinated areas are filling up. The numbers are still only 50% make it alive out of the ICU. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
It’s pretty remarkable that a disease with a 0.002% death rate has already killed 0.3% of all Americans. It’s incredible to realize that the average American has already had Covid 150 times, apparently.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
0.19% using current official figures, a huge difference from 0.3%.  You should know better.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I pay no attention to the counts. The official numbers will come from the excess deaths, which are about 1 million now. Even if you use 0.19%, that would still mean that if the death rate is 0.002% per case, then the average American must have had Covid 95 times.
Peter_from_Dallas
Peter_from_Dallas
2 years ago
Um Mish, you know FDA decided back in May that they are only going to count cases for vaccinated people if they test positive AND they go the hospital.  If you are unvaccinated, you’re a case if you test positive whether or not your showing symptoms.  So basically, we have a good idea of the spread of the virus in the unvaccinated and we have no idea what’s going on in the vaccinated because we’re not collecting the data.  Based on the data coming out of Israel, it looks like the vaccines only provide protection for about 4 to 6 months, so the expectation is that the vaccinated here should be getting infected at roughly the same rate as the unvaccinated, if they were vaccinated in the first couple of months this year.  That being said, this current outbreak is mostly concentrated in the south for now but that doesn’t mean it isn’t going to spread throughout the rest of the country eventually.  Also, Austin is probably the farthest left leaning city in Texas.  My expectation is that they have a much higher vaccination rate than the rest of Texas, but they’re still seeing a huge surge there and full ICUs.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
More confused and garbled information leading to highly questionable conclusions.
The CDC (not the FDA) for a while said asymptomatic people with known exposures didn’t need to be tested unless they became symptomatic. That was pre-Delta. This has now been rescinded, as of a few days back. Anybody exposed is now supposed to be tested.
The overwhelming take-away here  is that vaccinated people on the whole don’t get very sick, even from the Delta variant, and very, very seldom die from COVID. Near zero deaths in the vaxxed group.
“Based on the data coming out of Israel, it looks like the vaccines only provide protection for about 4 to 6 months, “
Also wrong.

“Analyzing the government’s national health statistics, researchers estimated that the Pfizer shot was just 39 percent effective against preventing infection in the country in late June and early July, compared with 95 percent from January to early April. In both time periods, however, the shot was more than 90 percent effective in preventing severe disease.

Israeli scientists cautioned that the new study is much smaller than the first and that it measured cases in a narrower window of time. As a result, a much larger range of uncertainties flank their estimates, which could also be skewed by a variety of other factors.”

That’s 90% effective in preventing severe disease. In Israel.  Capsische?
“Also, Austin is probably the farthest left leaning city in Texas.  My expectation is that they have a much higher vaccination rate than the rest of Texas, but they’re still seeing a huge surge there and full ICUs.”
Travis County is a lot bluer than Williamson County. Both are in the Austin metro area. Williamson County has had slightly  higher numbers with Delta, but I’ve looked at the COVD dashboard for both counties most days since the beginning of the pandemic, and they run neck and neck most of the time.
The facts are that when Abbott declared masking was over everywhere, Austin people, liberal and conservative, changed their behavior and stopped wearing masks for the most part. That is starting to change now, but the majority of people I see in crowded supermarkets in Austin are still unmasked at this time. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Exactly. There are locales around the country with high vaccination rates seeing ICUs get full. My only educated guess is the virus is mutating faster than we can come up with boosters for it. Also the working theory is that the vaccination wears off in about 6-9 months. We are entering that period now. Some people are getting ahead of CDC and getting the other MRNA vaccine they did not get or the J&J one to protect themselves. Humans cannot keep up with the mutations. Also there are a high number of RSV cases hitting the ERs as well. These have the same symptoms as Covid and unless you get tested you can’t tell if you have RSV or Covid or both.
Peter_from_Dallas
Peter_from_Dallas
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
And then there was the news report out of Israel last week where they were stating that 85-90% of the people in the hospital with COVID were vaccinated and 95% of the severe cases were vaccinated.  The problem with throwing around numbers like this is everyone can pick their favorite numbers and quote articles that support their point of view.  It’s hard to know what’s going on in the middle of an event.  From the health care workers that I’ve personally talked to, they’re saying that there’s no discernable pattern on the people coming in and the severity of the cases with whether they are vaccinated or not.  Some days they get mostly unvaccinated people.  Other days, it’s all vaccinated.  It comes in waves.  Some people are saying the unvaccinated are the sickest.  Others are saying they’re seeing the vaccinated are the sickest.  Most of them are saying what they hear on the news isn’t matching the situation on the ground.  But that doesn’t mean it’s happening everywhere – it could be just them and their hospitals.
What  we’re likely seeing right now is that the vaccinates are starting to fail for the people who got them the earliest.  The data is a bit murky because it’s just starting.  That some doctors are reporting the vaccinated getting sicker than the unvaccinated could mean that they just got the odd patients.  It could mean the vaccine’s protection against severe disease is starting to fail and since the oldest and sickest got the shots first, they’re showing bad signs.  It could also mean we’re seeing the first signs of ADE – that once the initial protection of the vaccines starts to fade, it leaves people more vulnerable to the disease and sickness than the people that haven’t gotten the shot.  We really don’t know and probably won’t know for several months.  
What does seem clear is the vaccines aren’t magic bullets the fix everything.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
As all too usual Eddie, you are slow to comprehend but quick to post.  As always, post volume doesn’t equate to post quality. 
You wrote :
More confused and garbled information leading to highly questionable conclusions.
The CDC (not the FDA) for a while said asymptomatic people with known exposures didn’t need to be tested unless they became symptomatic. That was pre-Delta. This has now been rescinded, as of a few days back. Anybody exposed is now supposed to be tested.
What Peter was actually referring to was this:
“As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance.”
This change makes any comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated impossible.  It makes unvaccinated look worse than the vaccinated, which I suspect is the actual CDC intention.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
“As all too usual Eddie, you are slow to comprehend but quick to post.  As always, post volume doesn’t equate to post quality. “
Says the man with the world’s worst case of confirmation bias.
99.5 percent of deaths are from the unvaccinated population. Period. EOM.
And what about the vaccinated and disease? Let’s look at a relatively high vaxxed state like Massachusetts if you want some good data.
“Massachusetts’s link to mass.govindeed indicate that vaccines are working remarkably well in that state. As of July 31, there were 7,737 breakthrough infections among 4.3 million fully vaccinated people. Of these, 395 required hospitalization, and 100 died.

With that large of a denominator, the percentages are reassuring: 0.18% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough infection; 0.009% went to the hospital; and 0.002% died.

Those numbers should be good enough for anybody. 
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
Just my two cents here.  I always thought herd immunity was when a virus comes in kills the weak off then finds a balance with the herd.  Seems like when people talk about covid they forget the killing off the weak part.  
Seeing here in ca there are large pockets of unvaxed people. If you want to break it down by party i say here in ca its 60 percent dem to 40 republican.  Thats still a lot of people.  
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
So now we get a state sized example of what not shutting down back in the beginning of the pandemic would look like.  Well half as bad because half or so are vaxed. 
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago

Politicians etc cant change course now.  They would lose their base and audience.  So they double down try to spin to things like obamas birthday party or immigration.  Called a friend in fla.  Told me one friend had died one spent 6 weeks in hospital.  Bet know one considers medical expenses on when they consider the chance of it killing you.  . . 

Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
Reply to  Rbm
Oh yeah his daughters a nurse.  They are using the cafeteria for bed space.     
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
So, it is overwhelmingly in red states?   Why am I not shocked?!    And even in the blue states like Oregon that made into the chart, the county-level breakup would show that it is overwhelmingly from the red counties.    Oregon (and all other blue states, including deep blue California) have lots of red counties.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
What did Utah do wrong to make your top 14 death list?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
OT but hopefully of interest…..Turkish archaeologists have found the real Trojan horse from antiquity. For most of my life, Troy wasn’t even proven to exist. Now we know Homer was writing about a real battle….presumably one fought over a real woman. 
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Pretty sure we always knew Troy existed, just that we weren’t sure of the exact location until recently (last 30 years?).
The Trojan horse on the other hand was what I always thought they were trying to prove. And whether it happened as Homer wrote or whether ‘something’ happened with the horse and Homer wrote a story about it in the way we make movie adaptations about real events.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
The local Austin news reported 2 ICU beds for a 2.3 million metro service, yesterday. 12 kids in the hospital, and 3 kids on ventilators. 
The good news is that maybe we’re peaking now…too soon to know for sure, but we’ve had two down days off the peak in Williamson County where I work, on new cases anyway. Travis County has slightly fewer cases now than Williamson.
Schools are in disarray. San Antonio got an injunction to allow them to enforce a mask mandate in spite of Governor Abbott’s executive order forbidding it. It looks like more schools will sue or just ignore the order and wait for the AG to sue them. Not a great way to handle back-to-school in a raging pandemic.
dbannist
dbannist
2 years ago
The Delta variant may prove to be  a huge gift.  Preliminary data suggests a far lower death rate and much higher ability to transmit.   

Since actually getting the virus appears to offer far better protection against getting it again than a vaccine, perhaps Delta will allow Americans to get long term immunity with a lessor chance of death and long term effects.  Getting the vaccine AND also getting Delta will likely offer excellent protection against other variants. 

COVID’s not going away folks.  It will be here for thousands of years and we’re all going to get it mutiple times in life.  Far better to get DELTA than a more fatal version.  Delta appears to be the least fatal of all the variants we’ve seen.  Yeah, it’s more transmissable, which is why more people are going to the hospital….but that’s just an illusion of more people getting it.  Of course, any death is tragic, but I’ll take a surge in short term deaths over a much larger number of deaths over the longer term.  People need to think mathematically for the long term, not the short term surge. 

In other nations that have had delta longer they have clearly (weeks ago) peaked in daily cases and falling rapidly.  Assuming the USA follows the same path it’s likely we will peak this week and fall rapidly after that.

Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
Dunno about that. Local docs say people are sicker when they present with Delta than what they saw in the OG version.
There are several reasons deaths might be lower that don’t have to do with reduced pathogenicity. Like treatment is better….and the vaccines work.
dbannist
dbannist
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Most of those who are hospitalized are not vaccinated….meaning yes, the vaccines are working to keep people out of the hospital.  That’s a good thing I agree.

However, Delta is highly transmissible, probably at least 2x as transmissable as the first version, which was already high.  That means far more people are getting it than just 3 months ago on a daily basis.  That also means more people are going to the hospital.  On a per capita basis far fewer people are seeking treatment than last winter.  That’s what the math by itself shows.  As far as people presenting sicker at the hospital, that’s anecdotal and subject to opinion.  It could be people really are sicker, or….are just stupid for not showing up earlier (my vote is for that).  It’s too early to tell and anyone who says they do know is an idiot.  

What bothers me about the whole discussion with people around me is that people honestly believe COVID will go away.  You can talk to them and make every reasonable argument you can think of, but people still believe it.  There as many whackos in the anti-COVID crowd as there are in the anti-vaxxer crowd I’ve found.  For every nutjob of a person who believes we need to make kids wear masks in school (There’s just been one death in anyone under age 24 in all of NC in the last 18 months from COVID)  there’s a nutjob who believes the government is trying to kill people with the vaccine.

Personally, I will get the vaccine but I also accept that one day I will also get COVID.  I’d rather get COVID while I’m still young, and I’d very very much prefer my kids get COVID while they are kids than that they get it while adults and their risks go up.  nWe are ALL going to get it, multiple times.  We need to accept that.

Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
“You can talk to them and make every reasonable argument you can think of, but people still believe it. “
——–
“Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true”
–Francis Bacon
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
There are plenty of antivirals coming on market, possibly by years end, that will be able to treat Covid effectively, without the need to take up an mRNA vaccine with a unknown long-term safety experience.  For instance:
COVID: 90% of patients treated with new Israeli drug discharged in 5 days
The Phase II trial for an Israeli COVID drug saw some 29 out of 30 patients, moderate to serious, recover within days.
AUGUST 5, 2021 22:24
Some 93% of 90 coronavirus serious patients treated in several Greek hospitals with a new drug developed by a team at Tel Aviv’s Sourasky Medical Center as part of the Phase II trial of the treatment were discharged in five days or fewer.
The Phase II trial confirmed the results of Phase I, which was conducted in Israel last winter and saw 29 out of 30 patients in moderate to serious condition recover within days.
….
thimk
thimk
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
interesting , seems the anti-vaxxers will receive their immunity/antibodies  involuntarily via actual contraction. 
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
Seems to me far less deadly because most of the at risk ie old etc have gotten the vax.   Plus they have got a grasp on treatment. 
Esclaro
Esclaro
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
Wrong! I had Covid and I got vaccinated a year later. Vaccination causes a much stronger antibody count than the disease itself. This is documented in numerous medical studies!
dbannist
dbannist
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Getting covid and surviving gives you the best antibodies.  That’s been the result of every study I’ve read so far.

I could be wrong but that is what I have read and studied, pretty much everywhere.

Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
What I have seen is that the protection from actually having Covid, and the protection from the vaccine are about equal. Both substantially reduce the chance of reinfection, but don’t eliminate it. Both substantially reduce the chances of hospitalization and death, but don’t eliminate it. What I also have seen is that the best protection is provided by both having had Covid, and having a vaccine shot. 
I had the vaccine first, then Covid, so I should be well protected, at least for awhile. However, it is starting to appear that antibody levels decline by about 3% a month, se we can reasonably expect that people will get a new Covid infection about every 3 years, or alternately, will need a booster shot every 3 years.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Fauci and the trained MSM dogs have been repeating this as they desperately fight to make people take up one of the vaccines. There are some studies that do show increased antibody production with natural immunity topped off by a vaccine, such as this one:
But my question is whether the vaccine IS necessary on top of natural immunity.  One of the problems with the modern world, especially in 1st world countries, is the belief that if a little is good, then more is better.
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Like you ive had covid and the shot.  Supposedly were in a very good position.  
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
Thanks Dbannist, you speak for me.  Very sensible presentation.
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
“The Delta variant may prove to be  a huge gift.  Preliminary data suggests a far lower death rate and much higher ability to transmit. “
It’s not a gift – it’s the natural course of the vast majority of viruses.
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Re “I do not doubt for a second that obesity and age play into problems.”
Obesity or overweight?  I agree about severe obesity.  But moving to the other end of the overweight spectrum is where the Fear Porn Fraudsters have ignored that the percentages of overweight in the ICU/dying with (not from) CoVID is almost identical to the percentage of overweight in society – which indicates weight is not correlative to risks/severity.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  RoundFile
Murica! We are number one in obese Caucasians 50 or under using mobility scooters at the Wal-Mart!

How dare those people try to cross our border and take the jobs these people obviously can’t do! LMAO! 

Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago
Reply to  RoundFile
Whos not 10 20 or 30 pounds over weight in the us.  
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  RoundFile
Let’s see those figures with cites to back them up.
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Just Google overweight and Covid.
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Mish, why no charts showing historical context?  “Surging”, really?   OMG an 300% increase… from 1 to 3!  
Everyone gets watching the early #s to try establish rates, but the laws of very small numbers are the playground of Panic Porn.  
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  RoundFile
Dunno.  If I saw a 300% increase in my bank account I’d be over the moon.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
I find it ironic the people who Trump will need the most in 2024 should he choose to make another spectacle of the White House and the election process, are the ones who are getting the sickest and dying. Casualties in this war doesn’t favor MAGA. LOL 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
Even if it were true, the number of people dying from Covid is relatively small.  A few hundred thousand one way or the other will make no difference across the total voting population of the USA, which is ~168 million.  Second, it won’t be Trump runnin gin 2024.  DeSantis is more likely.
If you’re looking for your echo chamber, you need to go to the NYT, WaPo or LAT reader comment areas.
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
How about some context?  ICU beds are always at a premium – meaning hospitals do not have a lot of them and it is not uncommon for hospitals to reach capacity during “bad flu seasons”.  
Let’s also remember that “bed capacity” is not the problem – their numbers can be very rapidly expanded; not in an ideal way (e.g. hotels), but its not the issue.  The issue is the medical hardware and drugs.   So what hardware (e.g. ventilators) and what drugs are at risk?  What are those #s?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  RoundFile
“ICU beds are always at a premium – meaning hospitals do not have a lot of them and it is not uncommon for hospitals to reach capacity during “bad flu seasons”.  
How about that’s total bullsh*t. This is unprecedented in my 32 years working in healthcare. 
RoundFile
RoundFile
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T

It’s not BS.

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