Q&A on Putin and Energy Price Caps, Does Anyone Have a Better Idea?

In Search of Better Ideas 

The Situation

1. Putin did not cause this recession but he aggravated it. In order, central bank policies, government policies, and responses to Putin caused or aggravated the recession.

2. Agreed

3. Agreed

4. No, It’s a terrible idea.

5. Hell yes. Stop the stupid sanctions, everyone of which has backfired, as predicted in advance. Start negotiations with Russia.

6. We are here because the political desire to do something, anything, even the wrong thing is overpowering. 

To add one more important idea, the US will not avoid a recession. However, the EU will have a much worse one, especially for following the US lead on backfiring sanctions.

Italy’s Salvini Says West Should Rethink Sanctions for Russia

Like him or not, good ideas are good ideas. 

Here’s a good one: Italy’s Salvini Says West Should Rethink Sanctions for Russia

Speaking at a conference of political leaders Sunday on Lake Como, Salvini claimed the sanctions meant to punish Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine had in fact helped Russia, resulting in an export surplus of $140 billion, during the year ending July 2022.

“Do we have to defend Ukraine? Yes,” Salvini said. “But I would not want the sanctions to harm those who impose them more than those who are hit by them.” 

Macron Defends Russia Dialogue to Prepare ‘Negotiated Peace’

After calling for more sanctions and watching them backfire, French president Emanuel Macron switched positions.

Please note, Macron Defends Russia Dialogue to Prepare ‘Negotiated Peace’

French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday defended his policy of keeping up a dialogue with Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, saying that Turkey should not be the only power talking to Moscow and preparations should already be made for a negotiated peace.

“Who wants Turkey to be the only world power which continues to talk to Russia?” the president told a meeting of French ambassadors at the Elysee Palace.

Macron argued that world powers should already be preparing for a “negotiated peace” to end the conflict that has already lasted over half a year, while emphasising it was up to Kyiv to decide on the timing and the terms.

“We must prepare for a long war. We must avoid escalation and prepare the peace,” he said.

Two Good Ideas

  • End the sanctions. 
  • Prepare for a negotiated settlement whether Ukraine likes it or not.

Instead, we are doing the opposite, compete with people suggesting there are no batter things to do than something that is downright asinine.

Putin Retaliates With Natural Gas Shutdown After G7 Announces Oil Price Caps

On September 4, I noted Putin Retaliates With Natural Gas Shutdown After G7 Announces Oil Price Caps

Within hours of the G7 approving Biden’s buyer’s cartel plan on oil, Putin retaliated by shutting off all natural gas to Europe. Good luck with that.

Hooray! The nannycrats got their wish. They will pay Putin zero for natural gas. They just don’t get any.

There are no better ideas. Really?!

A price cap on oil is equally ludicrous. Russia has willing buyers in India and China. 

Doing nothing at all is better than doing something counterproductive. So add doing nothing to the list of better idea. 

Meanwhile, instead of taking actions that make sense, the US is funneling hundreds of billions of dollars in money and equipment to Ukraine while the EU does nothing but go along with counterproductive US sanctions. 

US weapons to Ukraine support a prolonged war.

Who Started the Economic War?

Bloomberg reports Putin’s ‘Economic War’ Has UK ‘Panicking,’ Ex- Energy Boss Says

Putin started a war with Ukraine. US meddling led to that result. Nonetheless, place the blame 100% on Putin for the invasion if you like.

In response to the invasion, the US and EU started the economic war with a series of escalating sanctions on Russia, the latest of which is a nonsensical buyer’s cartel.

If you put yourself in Putin’s shoes, his reaction was the logical one.

This will lead to nonsensical charges that I support Putin. I don’t. I never support starting wars nor trade wars that are not winnable.

The asininity of all these sanctions and coordinated actions is that they have driven up the price of oil and natural gas to the point Russia is making more money than ever before while selling less oil and gas to the EU.

How stupid is that?

And is there any reason to believe Putin would not shut off all oil exports if the buyer’s cartel price cap actually held firm?

Expect a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession

On August 19, I commented Expect a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession

On August 26, at Jackson Hole, Fed Chair Jerome Powell Pledges to “Act With Resolve” to Beat Inflation

Key comments: “Reducing inflation is likely to require a sustained period of below-trend growth.”

We have already had a full year of very weak Real Final Sales growth (assuming there was any growth at all). Expect more weakness.

Please note The Fed is Openly Cheering the Stock Market Plunge Following Jackson Hole.

Good luck with that. 

Meanwhile, I can guarantee right now the war will end in a negotiated settlement, I just cannot predict when. Asinine interim responses will prolong the wait.  

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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prumbly
prumbly
1 year ago
The logical course of action for the EU would be to abandon their idiotic and ineffective Russia sanctions and their weapons donations to Ukraine, apologize to Mr Putin and beg him for gas supplies. But of course EU leaders are way too arrogant to ever do that.
You gotta know when to hold ’em and know when to fold ’em…
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
As I stated 6 months ago when Russian security forces were dispatch to The Ukraine; The Black Swan Event would not be the War, The Black Swan Event would be sanctions against Russia.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Ctrl+Alt+Print !
SFdocster
SFdocster
1 year ago

I found the most comprehensive predictions about the effect of sanctions on the war in Ukraine to be from Perun, in his video that came out on YouTube 5 days ago, titled “6 Months of War in Ukraine – Economics, Endurance, and the Energy War”

whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
NATO chief says they should “stay the course”. Now where have we heard that before?
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
I love the logic of we can’t have peace because if we get peace it will lead to war. So, worst case scenario is we end up where we are now. Makes total sense.
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Orwell wrote, “War is peace” as a satirical comment. These warmongers and their idiot followers think it is real.
BDR45
BDR45
1 year ago
I think behind the curtain, there are some diabolical intentions to impoverish us all and leave the top one tenth of the wealthy and powerful with great powers over the population. Power has been a Siren song for humans since the earliest civilizations, so we must constantly fight to the death for our autonomy. In this present struggle, I wish us all good luck.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  BDR45
And they’re trying to reduce human population. But not them or their families. Why else the absurd outrage over letting states decide abortion laws?
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Makes me wonder , how in the world could the US of A ‘convince’ our european idiots not to renew energy contracts with a 100% reliable cheap energy provider even way before the war started ? The otherwise utterly ruthless and criminal US of A even ordered the EU not to open OUR shiny new Nordstream 2 pipeline ! How could the US pull it off, apart from the ‘dealing with idiots’ aspect of course, was it blackmail, bribery, menacing and armtwisting in general ? It is simply mind boggling , how the yes saying EU clowns agreed with outright self destruction while our so called ally at the other side of the pond is now drooling and handrubbingly congratulating himself . The US of A got what it wanted all along , viz driving a wedge between Russia and the EU, preventing for once and for all the rising of a too strong economic and military block. Quite a pity , that s what you get with morons at the helm of a circus, a EU circus….
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
The objection to NS2 was by Trump. Think he wanted to help US LNG exports. Biden simply continued Trumps policy. Why Europe went along? Because they have no back bone. They’re a combination of our 2 political parties. The worst of both. The idiotic new world order agenda of the dems and the wimpiness of the pubs.
Roy
Roy
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Actually, Biden removed Trump’s obstacles to the NordStream II pipeline. Then after Kamala Harris went to Ukraine to convince them that they would be in NATO soon (and to convince Russia to invade), The US lead the sanctions effort. Germany cut off the remaining funding of NS II as part of the sanctions.
Can we be serious here?
The “US” is not leading the EU. (FromBrussels2) At least no one elected is doing the leading. From day one of the Biden Administration, there has been a concerted effort to shut down energy production in the US. Who has been leading the fight to shut down “fossil fuel” use in Europe?
We (ordinary, not politically connected/powerful people), are being led down the garden path. Biden has issued a slew of Executive Orders that are outside his Constitutional powers. By the time any of this stuff can get through the courts and be overturned, the damage has been done.
The article implies that whoever is driving this train actually wants to restore the economic activity lines above. However, I have seen no action to do so. Everything coming from the US Government is ensuring that it does not. I’m not as aware of the goings on in Europe, except for articles like this that imply the EU council bureaucrats are likewise doing their best to kill their economies. All while pretending to be concerned for the citizenry, of course.
Does anyone actually believe that this sequence of actions is entirely accidental and not planned? Hell, we’ve got a candidate for the Pennsylvania US Senate seat running on union support. This is a guy who has never worked a day in his life. He also has never paid a dime of union dues. He had a stroke a while back and is not exactly coherent. (I never heard of any speeches he gave before the stroke.) And he was entirely supported by mommy and daddy up to the age of 45.
Why this example? Much of what is being done is literally “rubbing our noses in it.” Biden “was elected” after spending his campaign in his basement with occasional rallies attended by a dozen people. They want a US uprising. They’re beginning to get a few in europe. The people in positions of power have no intention of getting the world back on sound fiscal footing. A world in chaos is necessary.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Gotta help struggling Gulf sheikdoms, the beacons of democracy.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
I just heard on CNBC that uranium stock are soaring because nuclear energy seems to be in vogue again…..yet there s a lack of uranium bars …..and Russia produces 50% of them …..quite a dilemma ain t it ? There s also a lack of Nickle, titanium, aluminium etc all abundant in Russia ….LET’S INVADE RUSSIA for once and fn all….the war on terror part 2…. or is it 3 ?
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
It would be one way for Russia to deliver Uranium to us.
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
I will assert once again that at Least Putin cured Covid by moving security forces in to The Ukraine. It the blink of an eye Covid was off the news cycle, and the Kung Flue magically disappeared.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Christoball
they wanted their distraction away from toxic contaminants and they got it!
Dr. Odyssey
Dr. Odyssey
1 year ago
Embalmers Have Been Finding Numerous Long, Fibrous Clots That Lack Post-Mortem Characteristics
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr. Odyssey
Fauchi and Bourla can wear as neck ties for a special occasion.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  Christoball
Nobody in California is talking about plastic straws either.
oee
oee
1 year ago
Move toward renewables quicker; Make a rapprochement with Iran & Venezuela so the speculators would be forced to sell the positions on oil & gas. Require higher collateral deposits on Oil & gas futures to deter speculation which drive those commodities higher.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  oee
Beg for oil, the “progressive” solution. Worked great this summer. LOL
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
begged an old enemy to punish one that threatened our money laundering facility for non nato nato force
oee
oee
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
It did work. Oil prices are frown from early this summer. According to Bloomberg, WTI is $ 81 and Brent crude is $ 86 per barrel down form tripple digits during the spring and early this summer. It is better than the wrong wing that has done nothing but to rape and pillage the envirornment since the start of the industrial revolution.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  oee
I don’t think they’re lower because the plan worked. I think demand is down because economies are slowing and Russia is still selling oil. To Asia instead of Europe.
xbizo
xbizo
1 year ago
If the economic war can be ended while the military war ramped up, that works. Ukraine needs to get manpower, and weapons faster than Russia benefits from relief of sanctions and build a modest advantage to slowly expel them from Ukraine and return Ukraine borders 2013 lines. Appeasement on the land grab will only lead to more future war. Big-boy decisions need to be made.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  xbizo
Yup. Nuke Moscow and St. Petersburg and show ’em we’re serious about this.
Then surround Russia with NATO troops.
Oh wait, we’ve already done that second part.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  xbizo
Ukraine needs to get manpower

From where? Neptune? LOL

Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Ukraine is already doing fine on their own. But if needed, they can bring in NATO+USA troops for the clean up and to collect prisoners for the war crimes trials.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
you know ukraine is lost right? that their offensive is repelled and they simply sacrificed more humans to control people they do not deserve to control
Jack
Jack
1 year ago
Good bot
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Jack
That all you, can come up with ?
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
lol doesn’t take much for people to believe they’re witty these days
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Only 9,129 Ukr soldiers got killed according to Kiev …..they conveniently forgot to count the other 100K…
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
the Azov war criminals have already been collected by Russia, 50 something of them got killed by their Kiev colleagues couple of weeks ago…probably to save them from torture by Russia….
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
1 year ago
Stop the sanctions, stop the weapons flow and adopt a sane energy policy based on reality and not wishful thinking.
Carl_R
Carl_R
1 year ago
Sometimes you need to address evil, and when you do, it comes with a cost. Any cost paid by members of the EU or the US pales by comparison to the cost being paid by Ukrainians. My suggestion is that we have to live with our cost for awhile and see how things develop.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Really Carl, you bought the propaganda hook, line and sinker. Which country invaded and bombed the most countries and caused the most mayhem in the 21 century so far? That would be the US thanks to the f…ing neocons.
Carl_R
Carl_R
1 year ago
The US should not be invading other countries, either, and “nation building” never works, but at least the US has never done an invasion with the intent to annex the territory. The best outcome that could come of this war would be for Russia to have a change of heart, and realize that they could prosper more, and be universally better off it they work with the EU rather than against it, and share mutual prosperity. NATO would become unnecessary, and everyone could focus on butter, not guns.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
We just conquer countries and keep troops there for decades and make all decisions. Totally different.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
“…at least the US has never done an invasion with the intent to annex the territory.”
Are you forgetful? Or illiterate? Or just plain stupid?
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
This kind of BS statements are almost always made by those who are personally paying ZERO cost.
Carl_R
Carl_R
1 year ago
Reply to  whirlaway
What an ignorant statement. Everyone is affected by inflation, but besides general inflation, I’m a large user of Natural gas, and that has added many thousands of dollars of expense to me.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Carl_R
western msm doing a good brainwashing job among the ignorant and gullible , that s obvious …
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Antwerp Mayor Blasts “Green Dogmatics”, Admits “Bankrupt” Belgium Is “The New Greece”
Wednesday, Sep 07, 2022 – 06:45 AM
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Better ideas:
– go back to 1990s regulations on derivatives
– undo the commodities modernization act
– keep hiking rates
Oil and other commodity prices have about 50% speculation in the price. Rooting out speculators and hedge funds would bring down prices dramatically. One way to really hit them is seize profits if speculators who don’t take delivery trade in derivatives. Then take the profits and send the dividend to consumers.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Problem is a lot of producers use futures to hedge wild price swings. If you got rid of that, a lot of producers would go bankrupt.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Here’s some serious food for thought:
———
What Russia’s defeat in Ukraine would mean for the world
Janusz Bugajski
September 07, 2022 06:45 AM
September is a crucial month. If Ukraine’s counteroffensive along the southern front is successful, then Moscow will stand on the verge of a historic defeat — even, that is, if Russian forces temporarily hold on to Crimea and the Donbas. Military failure despite six months of war will have global reverberations by damaging Russia’s reputation and influence.
The Ukrainian army plans to push Russian forces out of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions. If successful, the momentum will shift toward other occupied territories. While Kyiv continues to rearm with modern NATO weaponry, Russia is experiencing severe problems in replenishing its depleted ranks and replacing thousands of pieces of destroyed equipment.
Moscow may try to disguise military failures by claiming victory in the Donbas, but this will look increasingly hollow as its territorial control recedes and its military casualties mount. Indeed, a recent appeal for talks with Kyiv by Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov indicates a growing realization in the Kremlin about the negative course of the war for Russia.
A military defeat in Ukraine will signal that despite its assertions, Russia will no longer qualify as one of the “poles of power” alongside the United States and China. Parallel to its military inadequacies, Russia’s economy is spiraling downward as international sanctions throttle civilian and military production. Europe is also freeing itself from Russian fossil fuels, and even German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has declared that Moscow is an unreliable energy supplier. The U.S. is set to replace half of the natural gas Russia once delivered to Europe by the end of 2022, and more gas will arrive from other sources. Moscow will no longer be able to blackmail the continent as it becomes excluded from European markets, and its revenues will shrink.
The realization of Russia’s weakness will have a wide-ranging global impact. China will seek to exploit the failing state by arranging cheap energy deals and beneficial investments. It will also promote Chinese influence, population movements, and eventual absorption of Russia’s far eastern regions that nationalists claim as Chinese territory unfairly appropriated by Moscow in the 19th century.
….
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
I would aid Ukraine in marching to Moscow and incite democracy in Russia. This is what Putin is most scared of. I wouldn’t end the war just because Russia retreats. It is time to win. And after Russia will be China. It is time to send a message
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
A week counter offensive leads to “ONE” village being captured..
BBC was claiming Ukraine seized four villages on day one, quoting the Ukraine Gov’t!!! And captured a Russian base in Kherson and the Russians were fleeing in panic!!!!
So what happened to the other three??? My bet the Russians retook them!!!
What happened to the Russian’s fleeing in panic???? My bet it was a strategic withdrawl and Ukraine fell for it…
More of the Oblast that lies along Kherson is under Russian offensive right now, than was before the Ukrainian offensive was launched, BBC live map. Would lead me to believe the Russians are chasing the Ukrainians into other parts of Southern Ukraine…
Net result of Ukraine offensive Russia will have seized more territory towards Odessa!!! Killed tens of thousands of Ukraine Nationals, their foreign mercenaries and Soldiers of Fortune!!!
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
you’re aware mercenaries fighting for ukraine are some of if not the most miserable people on earth right now, right? Putin is scared of you aiding Ukraine in a march on Moscow? Really? Then when you are done, you are going to improve on, well everyone, and march onward beyond alexander the great and march on china… great plan… whew so lets see, you scare putin by intending to do more than alexander, the british, and napolean… even if you meant USA or West its rubbish… i’m not sure the message you sent was the one you intended!!
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Is this before or after WWIII? You have NO idea what Putin is scared of. The US does not run the world despite what you think. Instead, it is in great danger of being outplayed; not surprising with President Cluster Fudge.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Don’t much care what Putin thinks or is scared of.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
lol ukraine succesful counter offensive… you serious?
Lets think about the ramifications of the exact opposite thing that is happening… you know for fun, but lets not tell people its utter nonsense
ahh a brit i see… hope you enjoy the cold!
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
I have to say watching the english thrash around is rather comical… their racist hatred of russia is eye opening
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
It’s nice to see how gullible you are to believe US INTEL, the ones that lied about “WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION” , the one’s the “PUBLICLY” claimed Afghan military and Gov’t will be able to stand up to the Taliban..
The ones that said the Taliban was on the Run and loosing the “WAR”!! The ones saying bombings by the Taliban was an act of desperation cause they were loosing the War!!!!
The ones that claimed Russia stole the 2016 election in favor of Trump!!! The ones that claimed Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian disinformation!!!!
Me as an Citizen of the United States of America I have learned not to buy what the US Intel Agencies are selling.. Their number one job is to sell “PROPAGANDA”!!!!
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Dear Jojo, aka Dr. Pangloss:
Russia has a lot more time than Ukraine.
A lot more time.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
I so wish there were a way to effect anonymous wagers on the net. Russia is sinking fast. Whomever doesn’t see this needs to get out of the echo chamber they are stuck in.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
how is russia sinking fast? would you like to show me some evidence? what I see is a country with food and fuel. What I see in Europe is the opposite. So why is that wrong
Jack
Jack
1 year ago

Russia was rotten already before this latest escapade.

Have another vodka.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jack
so i’m an alcoholic russian… based on what? but i can’t call you a dummy ?
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
The Arctic part due to Climate Change? Better for farming and methane recovery.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Janusz Bugajski reads like a one-trick pony from the US Department of State. I can’t imagine why? Perhaps because he is. It would behoove you to evaluate the people who write this stuff.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
You sound like a broken record. ANYTHING that disagrees with your simple minded POV is poor quality, inadequate, etc. The whale is going to kill you again.
alexaisback
alexaisback
1 year ago
“The oil glut of the 1980s, which followed the 1979 oil price shock, was a direct contributor to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. The USSR had just before that become a major global oil producer; lower prices immediately resulted in a substantial loss of hard-currency export revenue, forcing the USSR to deplete its official reserves amid growing deficits of almost everything across the union,” said George Voloshin, head of the Paris branch of Aperio Intelligence.
It is simply that simple. Oil Glut.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Perhaps someone could re-post, in a comment or a reply to this one, the contents of In Search of Better Ideas; any words or graphics below point 6 in The Situation; any graphics in Macron Defends Russia Dialogue to Prepare ‘Negotiated Peace’; any graphics in Putin Retaliates With Natural Gas Shutdown After G7 Announces Oil Price Caps.
The above are the parts of this post that will not display in Firefox, Edge, Brave, or on my Android phone. Thanks much.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
i have to use edge, brave won’t open the comments on my computer
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Perhaps there is a reason that the more secure Brave browser will not open the comments on your computer.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
I tried Brave because of Firefox’s constant crashes after their latest “upgrades,” but Brave is even worse.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
could be, but i doubt it probably just bad coding
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
the only graphics I see are Robin Brooks x 2

The Situation

1. Putin did not cause this
recession but he aggravated it. In order, central bank policies,
government policies, and responses to Putin caused or aggravated the
recession.

2. Agreed

3. Agreed

4. No, It’s a terrible idea.

5.
Hell yes. Stop the stupid sanctions, everyone of which has backfired,
as predicted in advance. Start negotiations with Russia.

6. We are here because the political desire to do something, anything, even the wrong thing is overpowering.

To
add one more important idea, the US will not avoid a recession.
However, the EU will have a much worse one, especially for following the
US lead on backfiring sanctions.

Italy’s Salvini Says West Should Rethink Sanctions for Russia

Like him or not, good ideas are good ideas.

Here’s a good one: Italy’s Salvini Says West Should Rethink Sanctions for Russia

Speaking
at a conference of political leaders Sunday on Lake Como, Salvini
claimed the sanctions meant to punish Moscow over its invasion of
Ukraine had in fact helped Russia, resulting in an export surplus of
$140 billion, during the year ending July 2022.

“Do we have to
defend Ukraine? Yes,” Salvini said. “But I would not want the sanctions
to harm those who impose them more than those who are hit by them.”

Macron Defends Russia Dialogue to Prepare ‘Negotiated Peace’

After calling for more sanctions and watching them backfire, French president Emanuel Macron switched positions.

Please note, Macron Defends Russia Dialogue to Prepare ‘Negotiated Peace’

French
President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday defended his policy of keeping up
a dialogue with Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, saying that
Turkey should not be the only power talking to Moscow and preparations
should already be made for a negotiated peace.

“Who wants Turkey
to be the only world power which continues to talk to Russia?” the
president told a meeting of French ambassadors at the Elysee Palace.

Macron
argued that world powers should already be preparing for a “negotiated
peace” to end the conflict that has already lasted over half a year,
while emphasising it was up to Kyiv to decide on the timing and the
terms.

“We must prepare for a long war. We must avoid escalation and prepare the peace,” he said.

JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
The reason I mentioned graphics is because there are white spaces that look like they might hold charts. Thanks very much for what you posted, but on the words front the biggie is what’s under the subhead In Search of Better Ideas. Could you post that?
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
If you use VPN, that would be an easy explanation, but in my experience mobile browsers suck. The platform is tightly controlled by Apple or Google, and it’s unlikely that an adblocker is involved.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
I do not have a VPN. I almost always use a PC, but tried using my phone when three PC browsers didn’t show much of anything.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Gee Jack. Perhaps you should loosen up the security on your computer so that anyone can to anything to your computer. /s
I hate being snarky but there’s a reason things are not being displayed.
Quite possibly a very good reason.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Either that, or Mish can switch platforms. I am very far from an Internet newbie, and this site is the wonkiest I’ve encountered since the old BBS-dialup days. His blog, his rules, but this platform is weird. I am no techno nerd, but if I was running a blog that censored my own comments and rendered my posts in a format unreadable or only partly readable, I’d find a different one.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I heartily agree, Mish deserves a much better tool set and more control.
And, “wonky” is being very charitable.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
My guess is that he’s focused on the task rather than the publishing mechanics. Very understandable to me, but his platform is doing him a real disservice. Mish, I suggest finding a second platform and for a while doing duplicate posts there and here. Again: Your call, but this site is doing you no favors, that’s for sure.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
UBlock might do this. Also Ghostery is now trying to block ads by default and is screwing that up, blocking a lot of other stuff on webpages.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Press F12, refresh the page, see if you get any javascript errors.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
A better idea that fixes things quickly? No. And I haven’t seen anything posted here that solves anything in the short term or long term. Because you can’t.
We are in a big mess for the rest of this decade, if not longer. Even if there is a negotiated settlement in Ukraine.
And unlike many here, I am not going to point fingers or lay blame. That’s just a waste of time.
What I see here is a lot of people focusing on, and fighting over a couple of trees, while missing the entire forest.
Rather than focusing on Russia, Ukraine, Europe, the US, China, politics, wars, trade, etc; I prefer to focus on the big picture. The entire planet.
The world is in the early stages of an energy transition from fossil fuels to renewables. This transition is going to take many decades. And it is not going very well so far. Demand for energy keeps increasing, and we are doing a poor job on the supply side, in part, because of the transition that is going on; and in part because humans can’t work together to make the transition go smoother.
I accept that humans are probably going to continue to f*ck up the transition (example: the war in Ukraine). And there is certainly nothing that I can do about it. But rather than whine and complain about it, I prefer to look for the investment opportunities that arise from this messed up transition. The volatility that results provides great short term trading opportunities, and the long term trends provide great long term investments opportunities.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
the “transition” is to poverty… green energy is a story for children
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Story or not, it is happening. You can have a tantrum about it if you want to be a 2 year old, but that won’t change anything.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
lol how on earth you think your comment makes sense i have no idea… which part of my 12 words was a tantrum? lmao
btw you are talking to someone who cares far less than 99% of americans if we go back to the 1800s so thats why i’m laughing at you.. an attempt to be witty and you said the exact opposite of the truth
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Laughing won’t stop the transition either. Sorry.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Must you waste everyone’s time? Sorry to anyone reading this I thought my opposite would stay constructive
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
What was it that you said that was “constructive”?
I, on the other hand have been recommending oil and gas stocks for quite some time here now as a way to profit from the transition.
You, meanwhile, have done nothing constructive at all.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
lol about the history of you. nice to know you’re such a good stock sleuth i’ll keep my eye out
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Let me know when you have some constructive advice.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
i have plenty you are too dumb to get to it
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
So long as my GPS works, I’m okay with the 1800s. Using a sextant is a pain in the a$$.
I’m one of the lucky ones… blocked by PapaDave.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
lol papadave about to get another…
sorry to say GPS may be the first thing to go if USA and Russia ever directly start combat
jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
We won’t have GPS after WW3 but we will have more accurate chronometers not to mention calculators. If Jack Aubrey can navigate by the eclipses of the moons of Jupiter from a pitching ship without even a slide rule, you should be fine.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  jhrodd
plenty can be done hybridizing old and new techonlogy… unfortunately the longer EVERYONE tries to avoid energy decline, the less likely we get an orderly transisition of discovery and more likely we get squalor
the real problem is liberal dummies are so off about whats wrong and whats coming from their solution, and republican dummies are so off about energy/resource limitations unless it involves keeping foreigners out of their stock. Of course securing your house is more important than a loopy climate religion but whatever still needs to be corrected
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
The problem is the west has been lied to about where oil comes from…
It is abiotic, if it comes from plants and dinosars, than that means every planet in our solar system had life teeming on them in the past..Which if true proves another lie we in the West have been taught!!!
Dry oil wells have had been found to be being back to full, when checked years later….
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  JRM
i’ll bite, how does oil coming from dinosaurs mean every planet in our solar system had life teeming?
no oil well has been full years later… instead afaik a russian well had some seep back in but closed down again soon after… oil is not abiotic, and there is no evidence of it being so more than what could more easily be understood as some leakage from surrounding areas into a newly made cavity
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  JRM
I’m no petroleum engineer, but can easily imagine explanations other than oil being created on the fly.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
exactly… i’d never assume 100% it isn’t or can’t be abiotic but even rock and water and heat and other assorted chemicals was at some point abiotic and then became biotic. Perhaps this is what the other individual was alluding to… kind of a twisted strange reasoning but its interesting
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
What if the CCP nationalizes their assets in central CAN?
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
As for a negotiated peace, the price has gone up exponentially.
America and Germany have been supplying weapons to kill Russian soldiers … this will not be dismissed lightly.
  • Ukraine has shown how well it can be trusted: There will need to be substantial buffers, a new regime, nuclear power plants under new controls.
  • America will have to abandon troop positions in all countries east of Berlin.
  • All missile sites in Eastern Europe will need to be dismantled.
  • The INF & ABM will need to be restored.
  • A new security architecture for Europe will be demanded
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
And since none of that is ever going to happen, do you have a plan B?
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
No. The likelihood of a negotiated settlement is very very low.
Capitulation is much more likely, eventually.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Capitulation by Russia, yes?
jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
No.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Those are exactly the demands Putin made to Nato on December 26, 2021 before the war. When those demands were not met Putin invaded Ukraine. Those demands were made to be rejected by Nato for it would have been the liquidation of Nato itself. Putin wanted war. It was not thrusted upon him. He wanted it.
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Baker told Gorbechev that NATO would not take one step east.
Who wanted what?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  RonJ

Was anything signed? No. Learn diplomatic language.

A diplomat who says “yes” means “maybe”, a diplomat who says “maybe” means “no”, and a diplomat who says “no” is not a diplomat.

CHARLES MAURICE DE TALLEYRAND
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
If yes means maybe, what means yes?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  RonJ

Only if it is signed does yes mean anything.

Another one of his quotes applies today.

Diplomacy is the art of saying “Nice Doggie!” till you can find a bigger stick.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
ok well your lies got your arse handed to you so guess geopolitics wasn’t their strong suit
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
And American diplomats cross their fingers behind their back.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
And this is why war should be brought to bear in Red Square. Any negotiated settlement begins with Putin turning himself in for war crimes and UN oversight of free and fair elections in Russia. Putin should lose everything. This will teach every autocrat a lesson they won’t forget. Putin is a paper tiger.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
That means George BUSH JR needs to turn himself in, along with Bill Clinton, and all the European leaders who were in charge when US forces and its Coalition partners have been carrying out military ops!!!!
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
shutting off all natural gas to Europe
This statement is 100% false
There is natural gas flowing through Ukraine who is receiving contractual transit fees in dollars
Municipalities are suing to retain current contracts with gazProm
Putin just offered today to send unlimited gas through NS2
Europe is being strangled by its leaders and American directives
They are gaslighting their own people by claiming they cannot buy gas. They can. And many parties are.
All the monetary compensation will not help. If governments fully compensate everybody for their extra expenses, there will not be more energy, but prices will be bid to infinity.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Putin is trying to get Europe to accept his terms and his only and Europe is saying no.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
it will be rationed to where the votes come from before the price reaches infinity
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Of course, rationing is the only possibility without throwing too many people off the life boat.
Decades of privatization, liberalization, and integration of Europe’s energy market has been shown to be a huge error.
If they still had national, regulated energy providers, they would not be in this situation.
Better yet, they could have contracted long-term gas supply to realize stability for business planning.
The idea that energy is not strategic and that you can do without …
I only pay about 0.001% of my income to drink … does that mean my existence will be little affected if I stop drinking water?
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
the larger problem which 98% of people ignore is that fossil fuels are in decline…. Europe mostly, but US through over exploitation are further along the curve than other countries which can pump but don’t have the same heightened appetites (ie are already poor)
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Again being the “BIG LIE”!!!!
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Your point, again?
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
“5. Hell yes. Stop the stupid sanctions, everyone of which has backfired, as predicted in advance. Start negotiations with Russia.”
You’re blind as a bat!
The sanctions are working and need to be increased wherever possible. The only negotiation with Russia should be total and full withdrawal from Ukraine back to pre-2014 borders and payment for all the damages caused if Putin want the sanctions lifted.
If the sanctions weren’t working, then Russia would not desperately be sourcing old ammo and weapons from NK.
———-
Russia buying North Korean rockets and artillery, U.S. intelligence says
9/6/2022
Russia’s Ministry of Defense is buying millions of rockets and artillery shells from North Korea to aid its war in Ukraine, according to recently downgraded intelligence, a U.S. official confirmed to Axios on Tuesday.
Why it matters: “This purchase indicates that the Russian military continues to suffer from severe supply shortages in Ukraine, due in part to export controls and sanctions,” the U.S. official said.
The big picture: The official added that the U.S. expects Russia to continue trying to purchase “additional North Korean military equipment going forward.” The findings were first reported by the New York Times.
– Russia has increasingly turned to other adversaries of the U.S. — namely China and Iran — since its invasion of Ukraine. It recently received an initial shipment of drones from Iran to use in Ukraine.
– North Korea has expressed willingness to dispatch teams of laborers to help rebuild parts of eastern Ukraine held by Russia, AP reported.
– Both the export of weapons and the sending of construction workers could see North Korea run afoul of U.N. resolutions, per AP.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
You are passing on obviously bogus prop from the hybrid war mongers.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
isn’t it nice how obvious propaganda has become… too bad not everyone brushed up during covid and dummies still abound
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Russia ‘at the end of its rope’ as China turning its back on Putin over ammunition deal
RUSSIA is “at the end of its rope” in Ukraine as Moscow seemingly turned to North Korea to buy its ammunitions after China refused to military support Russia in its invasion of Ukraine.
Sep 7, 2022
Deputy Director of the Atlantic Council’s Center for Strategy and Security Matthew Kroenig said Russia is out of ammunition and the fact that China refuses to send its weapons to Moscow suggests that Russia is now “at the end of its rope”. He explained that the move from China might indicate that US and Europe sanctions are working and argued Beijing’s step back in support of Russia might be because China is “worried they could become victims of US sanctions” if they directly support Moscow. The comments came after declassified American intelligence revealed that Russia is now buying millions of artillery shells and rockets from North Korea.
Speaking with CNBC host Eamon Javers, Mr Kroenig said: “Russia is out of ammunitions, it can’t get munitions from other countries and even China is refusing to help Russia’s military effort.
“So Russia is turning to Iran and North Korea, these countries are providing Russia with more ammunitions now, but I think it shows that Russia is at the end of its rope.
….
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
So, the corporate MSM has added one more to the list that they have been peddling to the gullibles, eh? “Russia running out of money/options/weapons/manpower/steam/ideas/tanks/chips/time/ammo …” over the last 6 months now??!!

OK, we will add this one to the list too. {{{YAWN}}} Happy now?! LOL

jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
“Atlantic Council’ Seriously?
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  jhrodd
jhrodd? Seriously?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Why suddenly downgrade this ‘intelligence’?
Why fire off high-tech weapons when cheap NK rockets/shells do just fine, and it boosts NK’s economy? What happens if NK has a go at SK? Putin laughs his a$$ off?
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
North Korea for the most part does what China says without China they don’t exist
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Wanna bet China is in full agreement, and maybe suggested Russia buy NK arms?
Putin is ex-KGB. He stirs the pot with delight, and watches the west react.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Hm I’m not sure its any of our business whatsoever… I personally have no desire for war or to tell russia what to do… they can buy weapons from wherever they want… of course they primarily make their own and have many of the best pieces equipment made anywhere… and obviously have been prepping for this event for at least 8 years… but sure they need North Korea and their 12 cabbages, not my business
LM2022
LM2022
1 year ago
I don’t see any negotiated peace.
Russian and Putin have been engaged in asymmetrical warfare against the west for a decade now (interfering in the 2016/2020 elections, and assorted assassinations and attempted assassinations across Europe). Anyone want to bet we ultimately find out that Trump was feeding Putin stolen classified docs this whole time?
I don’t see Biden missing an opportunity for payback, especially since they’ve come after his family.
Also, I’ve said it before, Ukrainians want to fight for their country, who are we to tell them to stop?
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Give a specific example of an election result that changed in the way Russia wanted, and how they achieved this exactly.
This is such a dumb talking point.
Which Ukrainians? The ones that speak Russian, have been shelled, their leaders kidnapped and tortured since 2014?
At the front in the LDNR, it is the local Ukrainian population that is bearing the brunt of the fight against Kiev!
They want their country back!
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Look up the definition of the word “sealioning”. Fits you to the proverbial “T”.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
No ‘T’ in sealion
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
whats telling people to look up words you have no idea if they know called? How dare someone ask for evidence!
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
And I thought it was walrusing. damn!
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
The ones that are being forced to fight by their dear leader who is being enriched by Biden. At the beginning of the war no one from 18 -60 y/o could leave Ukraine. Had to stay and fight. Zelensky is a corrupt US puppet used to fight a proxy was against Russia, killing his own people and destroying his country.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
There are several examples in the book Sandworm. Elections, power grid and cyber attacks during elections. The only way to combat Putin is to launch a cyber attack on Russia first. The Netherlands did this in the mid 2010s after they found evidence Russia was going to hack their election. So they launched a cyberaatck on Russia prior to election day in the Netherlands.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Elections, power grid and cyber attacks during elections.

You mean the phony hack of the Vermont grid that was invented by your “progressives?”

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Yep, Fuzzy Bear made Facebook comments. Meanwhile, the DOJ et al invented RussiaGate.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
This is too dumb to pass up. Asymmetrical warfare? Of course, the CIA would NEVER interfere in another country’s elections. There are any number of examples if you care to look. Ukraine is a great example.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Fighting for democracy is a real thing. You can comment here because democracy exists.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Face it: You hate this country’s guts.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
And Russia has the right to use force to protect Russian Nationals that live in other countries…
US has invaded other countries when our citizens are being threatened ie Panama and Grenada are just two!!!
It seems you believe in the “DOUBLE STANDARD” ie the West has the right to use force at anytime, but other countries “DON”T HAVE A RIGHT”!!!!
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Anyone want to bet we ultimately find out that Trump was feeding Putin stolen classified docs this whole time?

Anyone want to bet that you are a typical “progressive” who won’t ever consider that anyone might not want to be lectured to and ordered around by you and your kind?

KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Hillary, you lost fair and square. Time to get over it.
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
“Putin and Energy Price Caps, Does Anyone Have a Better Idea?”
How about everyone quits, while they are behind. But everyone in charge would rather double down, regardless how many people are harmed or killed.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
“Robin Brooks is seeking better ideas. Does anyone have them?”
Yes, I do!
I keep repeating this for all the people with brains that as Jethro Tull sang, are “Thick as a Brick”.

Ending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine helping the world economies heal is simple. All Putin has to
do is admit his paper tiger army bit off more than it could chew,
withdraws all forces to pre-2014 borders, commits to paying for all
damages it caused and necessary rebuilding in Ukraine and begs for
forgiveness from the West, promising to never invade another free and
independent country again in return for the sanctions being lifted.

Easy, no?

hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Do you work for the CIA, no one can be that stupid.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk
Yes, it is one of the many jobs I hold.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
If you did work for CIA, you would NOT admit it in public forum.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk
It’s not stupidity. It’s willful ignorance. Either that or he’s Dick Cheney.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I thought the Rummy character should have had his own movie. Ah, the real one is emitting BTUs somewhere down there!
jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
No.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
no
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Guaranteeing a negotiated outcome seems a poor choice of words as the US and EU stupidity as of yet has not found bounds
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Putin doesn’t care. A trade deal with Iran might NOT happen. New exogenous causes might deflect media attention from Putin.
An election gift to the eternal Xi.
dpy
dpy
1 year ago
I don’t think that we should assume that a replacement for Putin would be more eager to align to the wants and wishes of the USofA, Britain, Brussels or NATO. I’ve read that his second in command is quite a hawk. It depend on whether the Atlanticist oligarchs would have the power to take control of Russia. I doubt it. Putin is VERY popular as is nationalism. In fact, as a culture they have a strong sentiment to preserve and protect their traditions and wokism is not popular. Putin talks about this divorce from the West having positive aspects in that regard.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  dpy
all accounts i have read are that putin is the most moderate option and every speech or statement I have heard from him is extremely reasonable sounding
in fact martin armstrong has obtained documents (and is writing a book) from the clinton administration which implies putin was put into power specifically for his moderate rational demeanor
Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
He moderately and rationally invaded Ukraine in the belief that European leaders would express their outrage and do nothing about it.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Scooot
lol no it has nothing to do with china/america’s long standing economic war… they obviously had never seen america impose sanctions… they obviously had no idea 85% of the world would side with them when it came to sanctions… not buying that for a second, although i’m sure they considered it a possibility
Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
In which case they planned to use energy as weapon in response and deduced they could act with impunity?
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Scooot
sure seems pretty obvious… if the west decides we will ruin your ability to use dollars, russia would restrict their ability to use energy…
the fatal flaw for the west was they thought paper currency would beat out energy and materials.
Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
I’ll stick to my first opinion, they thought Europe would do nothing other than express outrage because Europe knew they could use energy against them.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Scooot
Yea its certainly possible, you don’t assume when you pull a gun the other guy is gonna jump off the building…
but from what I’ve learned about military planning and/or russian military planning is that as many scenarios as possible are thought through and contingencies are developed… my guess is full sanctions were on the list (even if they are pretend full sanctions)
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
It’s not just Putin. It’s his whole group. Putin let’s his underlings sound more radical than him in order to give others the impression that he is the reasonable one. It’s just the good cop bad cop routine and easy to see through. Doesn’t fool anybody.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
lol yea ok… either way, Ukraine will be demilitarized and denazified
FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
1 year ago

Putin started a war with Ukraine. US meddling led to that result. Nonetheless, place the blame 100% on Putin for the invasion if you like.

With all due respect Mish, and I do say this respectfully, it’s time to stop avoiding the discussion of WHAT caused Russia to invade Ukraine.
And here is a critical fact to start with: The war started in 2014 and the aggressor was the United States.
The blood of all those soldiers and civilians drips from the hands of the American Public for being intellectually lazy, living in “Happy Magical Thinking Land” and unthinkingly and uncritically buying into all of the bull schtye that their itchy ears want to hear.
Adding disclaimers like this are IMO extremely counterproductive. The American People must have it shoved in their faces that THEY are ultimately the genocidal murderers who sat by and being completely disinterested in anyone but themselves, allowed this to happen. Nary 1 in 10,000 questioned Maidan. As long as CNN or FAUX was telling them what to think and what to believe they were content with being fat, DUMB, and happy.
Sorry, but some truths are very painful to swallow. And this is one of them. The West is merely getting its comeuppance for abdicating their duty to watch dog the government that rules over them.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
I think he said that, “US meddling led to that result.” but this is a financial blog I don’t blame him for not diving into it
SleemoG
SleemoG
1 year ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
Ah, “The People Are The Government” 6th-grade civics fetishism rears its ugly head.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
Why is Putin so scared of free people ? Maybe you should try to live in Russia and see how it all goes.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Ukraine’s people were not “free” before February of this year.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Perhaps but they were certainly more free than Russians and had a better economy.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
Mish, to put such causes in perspective, if the Archduke Franz Ferdinand would have shaved off his Rollie Fingers mustache that fateful morning then Princip would never had recognized him and the world could have avoided WWI !!!
Roy
Roy
1 year ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
I have to respond to this:
[The blood of all those soldiers and civilians drips from the hands of the American Public for being intellectually lazy, living in “Happy Magical Thinking Land” and unthinkingly and uncritically buying into all of the bull schtye that their itchy ears want to hear.]
The American public prevented Hillary Clinton from continuing the Obama legacy in 2016.
The American public also elected Donald Trump in 2020. If the election had not been overturned, the war with Russia would not have happened.
There are indeed Americans who went along with the BS, but there are many (majority?) who did not. I find painting the entire US populace with your blood-soaked brush intolerable.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
“And is there any reason to believe Putin would not shut off all oil exports if the buyer’s cartel price cap actually held firm?”
Perhaps the objective is to get him to shut off the oil.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Certainly possible that the group claiming they will cancel fossil fuels for the world is in fact cancelling fossil fuels only for their own countries
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
No, just Europeans saying to Russia to “Take your oil and gas and shove it. We will find our energy elsewhere.”
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Whats loveable about our current crisis is that the propaganda is now so patently untrue it hardly seems worth it to debunk
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Yep they will buy their Russian oil with Made in China and India labels!!!
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Putin ticktock the European idiots, from Vostok, the last warning shot. In Dec/ Jan Putin might give Europe a chance. Nerd #1 might be on. // Mish, the big guy, and his big wife unveiled. Mishelle dominate, she is the brain. Both, the invisible hands.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Is that one of Nostradamus’s quatrains? LOL
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
LOL.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  whirlaway
I’m convinced that 8dots gets drunk and then comes here to post quatrains. LOL

Behold the 12 horses of the rainbow/Moon is in the 7th house/Jupiter aligned with Mars …

jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Russia is not at war with Ukraine. They launched a Special Military Operation in support of the Donbas that has been at war with Ukraine since the US financed coup in 2014. Putin has stated that if Ukraine attacks targets within Russia (with long range US supplied weapons) they may well declare war against Ukraine. This would be a whole new ball game and any Country supplying weapons to Ukraine would automatically be co-combatants and subject to retaliation. This would be WW3, although not necessarily nuclear. Russia has conventional weapons that could devastate NATO and are indefensible. They could eliminate all of our satellite capability, they could easily collapse our feeble energy grid. We are obviously not prepared for this.
Eighthman
Eighthman
1 year ago
How did Western nations fall into this perverted interventionism such that a foreign nation’s interests are above those of its citizens? Baltic states are among the worst – dying nations losing population while suffering 20- ish percent inflation – while they seem to exist only to fight with or annoy Russia? How about the general welfare of your own people?
Forcing Ukraine into negotiation would be more humanitarian than its own government cares to do. I don’t hear any state calling for a simple ceasefire and armistice.
The horror here is that Russia can’t stop because the EU/US can’t be trusted with any treaty or agreement – as with Minsk II or JCPOA or INF or Open Skies. So the only “solution” is to make sure Ukraine can’t fight for years to come. This mess didn’t have to happen.
Dave
Dave
1 year ago
Get crazy and enforce the Minsk Agreements. link to en.wikipedia.org
Nuddernoitall
Nuddernoitall
1 year ago
“This will lead to nonsensical charges that I support Putin. I don’t. I never support starting wars nor trade wars that are not winnable.”
I’m still waiting for an articulate policy to be advanced (and debated) regarding Ukraine, the 7,800 Russian sanctions and our end-game objectives not only in western Asia, but globally.
An old adage suggested there were always three sides to every discussion: your side, my side and finally, the truth.
In the newest and modern day iteration, there is 1) my side which is also the truth and 2) the bad Putin backers (or climate deniers, or anti-vaxxers, or immigrant haters… well, you get the picture.)
Washington, DC, legacy media, and other elements of our society (Big business/Big tech, Pharma, academia, BLM, Green movement, etc.) are “speakers of the truth.” Any others with a differing point of view (who wish to have civil dialogue about many important aspects of society) are considered Putin backers… or worse!
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Nuddernoitall
To be fair, the pubs did the same thing post 9/11. Anyone who questioned Bush or his cronies were called unpatriotic. And see where that led us.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The Bushman monkey had 95% approval rating. That’s a lot of Rs …and Ds !
I was in the 5%.
jhg
jhg
1 year ago
Yes there is a better idea : KNOWLEDGE and FACTS :
In 2014 may, Donbass held a referendum where the people voted for secession with Ukraine. You have to understand more than 90% in these areas are russian speaking and a majority considered them oppressed by Ukraine. Two days after the referendum Donbass sought membership in Russian federation but was denied due to the political complications this would bring. After Ukraines president Vlodomyr Zelensky refused to speak with representatives for Donbass, Donetsk and Luhansk during peace talks arranged by France january 2022 Russia decided to make a wedge down eastern Ukraine to protect Ukrainian citizens in eastern Ukraine against central Ukraine bombing these areas. What you label “Russias war with Ukraine” is based on your stupidity and ignorance. It is a freedom war where the self proclaimed states Donetsk, Donbass and Luhansk refuse to bow for the Ukrainian nazi government. The solution is as that USA stops lying in their political propaganda war and stop giving american dollars and bombs to Ukraine president Vlodomyr Zelensky so Ukraine prsident will have to stop bombing his own citizens in Ukraine eastern part and being forced to peace negotiations with his own citizens. We can debate the 2014 referendums in eternity but the only thing that will help all parts now, TODAY, is Russias proposal for peace negotiations between Ukraine – Eastern Ukraine (Donbass, Dontesk and Lugansk). If Ukraine president Vlodomyr Zelensky refuse peace negotiations with eastern parts of his own country Ukraine he is to be courtmarshalled and shot as he is not president for all Ukraine, only the parts he choose. Do recognize president Joe Bidens interest in proven bribes and corruption in this war, USA taxpayers should investigate where their money goes.
Links to source : link to reuters.com
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  jhg
A lot might be explained by ‘”president Joe Bidens interest in proven bribes and corruption”.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
My Son Hunter Full Trailer | MySonHunter.com – YouTube
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  jhg
The 1st person to use Hitler/Nazi in a post proves themselves an idiot and loses the discussion.
Provinces/states in a country, regardless of how a secession vote may tally do not have the right to leave and align with another country. No more than say Alaska decided to vote to leave the USA and merge with Russia or Canada.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
So then it must always be civil war in order to cede?
As an FYI, many countries have split peacefully over voting. Some have remained together after voting and may in the future hold another vote to cede. Examples of this include Quebec and Scotland.
So your idea that you can’t vote to cede is ludicrous. Not everyone subscribes to the US point of view on ceding.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The list of successful splits is really short. But hey, let’s run with that idea. How about Russian states which want to leave the mother country? Might that be acceptable to Putin and YOU? What’s good for the goose… [lol]
———-
Secretary of National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine believes Russia’s collapse has already begun: “dozen of regions ready to leave the Russian Federation”
IRYNA BALACHUK — WEDNESDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 2022, 14:27
Oleksii Danilov, the Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine (NSDC) is convinced that certain processes have already begun in Russia that will eventually lead to the collapse of the aggressor country.
Quote of the NSDC Secretary: “Processes have begun there that no longer suit the leadership of the Russian Federation. They did not start immediately – not in March, not in April, but they began to gain momentum two months ago.
There are studies, which show that some territories are now ready to be liberated from this colonial state. We have the first, let’s say, ten of these regions. We understand who will be, relatively speaking, at the forefront of all processes.”
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
so democracy is good so long as the vote goes the way the criminal leaders want?
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
That’s what the Dumbocrat fans and their DONORcrat leaders truly believe.

“And if we were going to push for an election, then we should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win.” – HR Clinton.

Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Tyler and Polk forgot to record the deed to Texas during the wild real estate speculation the U.S. had prior to CW.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Yes, I have a better idea: Start a “Manhattan” project to replace oil/gas as the primary energy source on planet earth. I’d offer a $100 billion reward for cold fusion or hydrogen or super solar or whatever. Get the best minds on the planet to work on it. We need to do it like all life on planet earth depends on the solution because it does.
How are we going to pay for that? Cut social security and medicare, get boomers back to work.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Get the best minds on the planet to work on it
That would eliminate you.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Is that the best you could come up with? I already did the hard part, I started the idea. It’s what I do then let others do the work. Haven’t you learned anything by now?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
The idea is NOT new, and you certainly did not start it, but if it makes your self-esteem blossom, have at it..
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
No, seriously. Envision a program of research unlike the world has ever seen, from vast companies and universities, to individuals working in their basements to develop superconductor transfer systems of energy from one side of the planet to the other, and infinite safe/clean energy. This instead of green crap, mostly a waste of resources on solar and wind that cannot come close to meeting the needs of 8 billion people,.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
so you want to expand our search for magical solutions to cost the maximum possible….
you want to drill imaginary super conductors through the earth or just mesh them all over the globe… fantastic plan! when they are done they can find energy to power the mesh of unknown origin
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
The future of the planet and the human species hinges entirely on innovation, always has, always will. Innovation can be small step or giant leap, all it takes are minds with the capacity to create and the desire to explore other possibilities. 100 years ago electrical grids were unknown, ditto for nuclear power plants… They did not just ‘happen.’
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
You must have suffered a sunstroke.
How about a more down-to-earth idea: fish out as much trash from the oceans, and recycle what’s recyclable?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And you too.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Stop being a jerk.
billybobjr
billybobjr
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
“I’d offer a $100 billion reward for cold fusion or hydrogen or super solar or whatever”. That is funny there is hundreds of
billions allocated and has been allocated to this stuff over the years ever hear of build back better or shovel ready ect.
“Get the best minds on the planet to work on it”. Who might they be ? If you believe in fairies clap your hands !
Life on the planet is doing fine the pet population along with human population is rising .
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Human creativity crops up every so often in ways the rest of us find hard to understand. Maybe the creative mind works differently? BTW, a surprising number of creative people are/were ‘fairies’. Leonardo da Vinci is the most famous one. Nowadays, he’d be in prison. Alan Turing was another–after saving the world from Hitler, he was prosecuted and chemically castrated.
Incidentally, if I asked you where you get your best ideas, I can pretty much guarantee I know the answer… Now, why is that
billybobjr
billybobjr
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I agree people who are the most creative were also borderline crazy in their time and many would
have been prescribed medicine in the days we live . They probably would not have created the
things they did as a result The statement that we need to spend 100 billion when the
Europe may spend 1 trillion + just to bail the power producers is crazy because they the government created
the mess and they were warned by many when they were shutting all the power sources down
counting on a yet to be proven sources of power that could replace them. Blame Russia if you want .
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Is one of the above where you get your best ideas?
Not in any order:
Upon waking up in the morning.
Showering
Driving car–usually long distance
Walking
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Nope. Life on our planet is not doing fine.
And its getting worse every year.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
good thing all we need to do is figure out how to get more free stuff from non-fossil energy
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
The Guardian? If we’re going to go Full Mystical, give me Nostradamus. LOL
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Lots of articles from many sources. Couldn’t find one from Nostradamus. Would it help if I found something on Truth Social?
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
The Washington Post. The Conversation. Science(dot)org. Business Insider. Stick to Nostradamus. Much more fun, and far more reliable. LOL
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Maybe you can look up what he said on this topic then and let me know. I shouldn’t be the one looking everything up.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Look up “confirmation bias.” LOL
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
people who have lived like kings will not accept that it must end… they must declare their religion that the savior inventor is coming to give them more free stuff
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Speaking of pets, our dog killed a damn big rabbit two days ago and left it next to one of the garden gates. I shoveled it up and threw it into the meadow. Where are the dang vultures when we need them?
jhrodd
jhrodd
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
How about cut the Military, give all those able bodied people something useful to do.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
“Get the best minds on the planet to work on it.”
They did. Thousands, millions even, of them. For 150 years. Oil and gas was what they came up with. It’s what beat out all the alternatives that al those other thousands of millions of great minds came up with. It’s a pretty darned good solution( while it lasts ): Pulling such almost untold riches out of, effectively nowhere, as far as alternative uses for 5000 feet below ground is concerned.
Also, no great anything mind ever gave a toot about $100 billion dollars, nor similar nonsense. Their minds wouldn’t be much great, if it didn’t even rise to transcend such petty trivialities.
What they do expect, though, is to not have to worry about money. Not for proper housing walking distance to Stanford. Not for near-as-good-as-it-in-reality-gets education and healthcare for their family and kids. Beyond that; minimal interference and distracting nonsense (hence why “enough money” is so important. And hence why even slightly Manhattan-project minds are dying on the vine wrrying about nonsense like finding housing in current day Silicon Valley) , and tenure in an environment with other minds great enough to be interesting, is what matters. Measuring wallets, not to mention “portfolios;” are about as interesting as measuring dicks for anyone ever remotely aspiring to “greatness.” Einstein and Godel, certainly two of the greatest, had all of the above at Princeton. While being paid something which rounds off to approximately nothing at all (despite at least Einstein having to endure being paid much more than he wanted due to his rock star status….).
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Let’s consider Covid as a case in point. The CDC, surely great minds work there? Nope. Other government departments? Private corporations? Universities? Not a lot of great ideas in any of them, but a great deal of group think. Why is that? Any number of reasons–for example, scientists and engineers are trained to thing atomistically (break the problem down to its smallest parts), almost never holistically (see the problem as a whole). Applied to the search for energy in an age of whale oil and wood, developing oil and gas was a breakthrough. Then, with a few exceptions, group think set in.
Nowadays, woke schools and lousy teachers destroy bright minds as soon as they can–we can’t have white suprem acists. Too many smart Je ws, and As ians (no faster way for a comment to be rejected than use those words) we must exclude them.
Like Einstein and relativity, the solution might not come from a research one university. Maybe some person working in a library, or a musician with a head for numbers. True genius knows few bounds. He/she could even be homeless.
As for tenure, it has become a farce for the untalented.
You are right about one thing–creative people often enjoy sharing their ideas, mostly challenging themselves, not building their self-esteem. They steer clear of research centers unless it is on their terms.
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Yes!!!! Oil is a wonderful replenishing gift from the loins of the Earth
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
That would be the best way to go although the mix can be debated. Instead of capitulating you do an end run.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
I’ve been calling for such a Manhattan project for years. I have posted that idea to the NYT, WaPo and others and to Biden directly at his public email.
We have to remember also that it isn’t just the USA that is working on the ideas you proffer. Most, if not all, of the 1st world countries have strong initiatives going in these areas. There are many breakthroughs occurring. The hard part is making them commercially viable in the short run.
I am equally certain that the oil/gas industry is paying significant money in campaign contributions (and under the table?) to any Congress people who can slow the tide of alternative energy.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
just another appeal to magic
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
You are right. We should have been investing the money that now goes into Offense into energy research & development the past 30 years.
Even if you think fossil fuels are great, they are too precious as a natural resource and manufacturing materials to squander by burning up.
Sooner or later we need something else, and we need to be working on this before we run out and have out backs to the wall.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Here’s a significant new article that discusses an easy way to get H2.
——-
Scientists Find a Simple Way to Produce Hydrogen From Water at Room Temperature
31 August 2022
Hydrogen fuel promises to be a clean and abundant source of energy in the future – as long as scientists can figure out ways to produce it practically and cheaply, and without fossil fuels.
A new study provides us with another promising step in that direction, provided you can make use of existing supplies of post-consumer aluminum and gallium.
In the new research, scientists describe a relatively simple method involving aluminum nanoparticles that are able to strip the oxygen from water molecules and leave hydrogen gas.
The process yields large amounts of hydrogen, and it all works at room temperature.
That removes one of the big barriers to hydrogen fuel production: the large amounts of power required to produce it using existing methods.
This technique works with any kind of water, too, including wastewater and ocean water.
“We don’t need any energy input, and it bubbles hydrogen like crazy,” says materials scientist Scott Oliver from the University of California, Santa Cruz (UCSC).
“I’ve never seen anything like it.”
….
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
So simple! I’m sure the UK will be all over it… It’s so simple they should be able to have hydrogen generators covering the landscape by next year… but we know we won’t be seeing that. You better believe the attainment of the inputs will kill this, even if it finds a niche. It will not be a solution or it would be everywhere very quickly… gosh hydrogen from water without boiling it or electrocuting it? only steady supplies of gallium and aluminum? I don’t mind being debby downer but yea this aint gonna work… people keep thinking the universe owes it to us… its fascinating to watch… invent away but you won’t break the laws of thermodynamics and you’re praying that a very rare discovery that changed the human course is replicated right at the end of the last time it happened. UNLIKELY
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
Good thing that Russia and China are primary producers of gallium. Then there’s the energy costs to produce nanoparticles out of scrap. And then the leftover aluminum hydroxide goo.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
I think it makes more sense to invest in developing anti-gravity and in harnessing perpetual motion machines. The first saves energy by reducing friction and the second by providing limitless energy. All just as practical as your ideas. Oh, and why not just kill off the boomers and post boomers and save the entire social security and medicare.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Do the exact opposite of Biden.
1. Make Ukraine a neutral state in return for rebuilding assistance.
2. Offer Russia entry to the EU and NATO membership in return for non-aggression.
3. Develop positive relations with Russia.
The worst Putin can do is say F-U
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Guessing the answer would be FU.
I don’t think Russia is the least bit interested in joining the EU Nannycrats nor do I think they’d want into NATO at this time (BTW, if they were to enter NATO then there is no reason for Ukraine to be neutral).
I also believe Russia wants Ukraine split into 2 parts by ethnicity. Ethnic Russians in the East will form a new country Novorossiya and the ethnic Ukrainians in the West will remain as Ukraine. What’s happening in Ukraine is essentially what happened to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in the 90s. Both countries split along ethnic lines. Czechoslovakia was peaceful and Yugoslavia was not. Ukraine is emulating the Yugoslavia model unfortunately but the end result will be the same in Ukraine as it was in those countries (split along ethnic lines).
#3 would definitely be welcomed by not just Russia but by anyone interested in peace.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I have no idea what Putin wants, or what he will do. However, when plan A fails, it is sheer foolishness to move to plan A-1, A-2, A-3…. The first thing is a cooling off period–hence neutral state status for Ukraine. Also, unaligned, there are more opportunities than lap-dog.
A bigger problem than Ukraine will ever be, is the US’ current approach is driving Russia toward China. IMHO, that must not happen.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
too late, facebook, the fbi, gates, and twitter put dark brandon in charge
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Russia’s only interest in China is as it’s B*TCH. Xi would love to annex the eastern part of Russia.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
I’m quite confident the US and its pacific allies can stand up to China… I am not in any way confident that NATO can stand up to Russia
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
You are a Brit, aren’t you? In either case, what is UK’s interest in the US – other than as its B*TCH?!
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo
They have a short term same goal, get rid of the USA/NATO..
Once that happens I would expect a war between Russia and China to decide who will be the Global leader!!!
Yet there are many in the West that believe the “BIG LIE”, China and Russia are mortal enemies right now!!!
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Problem with West Ukraine, that territory used to belong to the neighbors to the West..
Political groups have appeared in Poland calling for Poland to annex Western Ukraine with force!!!
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The whole world is split by ethnicity except for a few experimental areas of the world.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Christoball
The only one I can think of is Antarctica.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
It’s all great news for energy profits outside Russia, and a good way to soak up a bunch of cash chasing housing, crypto, and other foolishness.
For those that hadn’t made up their minds about the efficacy of sanctions in Russia, the jury is still out. Sure, Russia will tell you they are juuust fiiiine with the sanctions, but they have been known liars for centuries, and I don’t know of a reliable source of info for what’s going on over there. I’m betting the whole Russian economy will collapse suddenly within a year if Europe can get completely off Russian energy.
Time will tell, but the fat lady ain’t sung yet. For my part, and I suspect for most on this blog, energy prices are a non issue. I could see them quadruple and not impact my standard of living. The poors are gonna hurt, but the poors already hurt… and you can’t take more than what they have. If they gotta pay more for energy, that will drive down rents and other things they have to buy. Once they hit their credit limits, the rubber hits the road.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
If Russia is fine with sanctions then why complain about them? Why does Putin want them canceled in exchange for gas? Something doesn’t add up. If Russia is fine with sanctions then why use them as a bargaining chip?
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Curious isn’t it? Like somebody’s not being truthful…
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
He badly miscalculated.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Vlad bought call options on Canada Goose (GOOS)?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You must be super rich if you can afford energy costs to quadruple and it have no effect on your standard of living since virtually everything else would probably double in price (food, clothing, goods etc) since they all rely heavily on energy.
99.9% of people aren’t in that situation.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I make good money, live lean but comfortable, and save a lot. My expenses would have to be 5x what they are for me to feel it day to day.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Me too. I don’t care either. Although getting diesel shipped to my private island has become a bit more problematic.
Raymond_Flagstaff
Raymond_Flagstaff
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
“russians known liars for centuries” racist much?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Apparently you don’t understand about mushroom clouds, white powder in a vial, or poison gas generator trucks.
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
1 year ago
Nuland vs. Putin in Judo. Loser walks.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
All this because a few war mongers in Washington think it’s still the 80s and getting Ukraine into NATO would be great. Even though, no one else, including Ukraine, wanted it.
There’s no downside to negotiated peace. Do we really want a half blown up Ukraine joining NATO at this point? It would accomplish nothing and cost us billions of more dollars. Let Putin keep the stuff he blew up.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
There’s no downside to negotiated peace.
Really? Putin has learned that he can bring Europe to their knees anytime he wants as long as they are addicted to his cheap oil, just like a junkie and his drug dealer. Suppose a “peace” is negotiated then next year Putin decides he wants to be made King of Europe or he will cut off energy. What then? Make him king?
What if Putin decides he will only provide energy if homosexuals in Europe are jailed? What then?
What if Putin decides he doesn’t like a particular religion or race then what?
The truth is nations need to get beyond oil from Russia, the middle east, Venezuela and other despot regions then they will collapse into nations like Paraguay.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Aren’t you the one who said global warming was going to kill everyone and then bragged about buying energy stocks? Which, by the way, must be big money losers now.
Why should I think you can accurately predict the future?
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I said climate change will kill everyone: 100% guaranteed. The nearby star called the “sun” will eventually expand into a red giant guaranteeing all life on earth and in this system will die.
Yes, I own energy stocks and what part of buying PUTS do you not comprehend?
I don’t predict the future, I do statistical extrapolations and attempt to profit. It works most of the time.
The professor says class is over now.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
They might eventually get beyond the need for oil. But that’s decades away at the earliest (not Russian oil, but oil in general) and until you can get 100% away from oil your going to be semi-captive to Russia and anyone else who produces oil.
So it’s time to bite the bullet on Ukraine and let them go and continue working on the decades long process of getting away from oil.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
But then we get to the truth – the REAL truth. Humans survived fine on earth without oil for 300k years as far as we know, maybe longer, and at some point we’ll need to go back to that way if new energy isn’t found. There will be blood, sweat and tears no matter what one way or another.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Yeah, but everyone had to waaaaaaaalk!
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
What if?
As long as you are talking about theoretical possibilities, you can compose any else clause imaginable.
What if Putin wants Europeans to ditch sandals and wear woolen underweat?
None of your insinuations make any sense.
Putin’s discourse has only been about protecting Russia, Russians, and getting rid of nato/american threats on its doorsteps.
After the previous incursions by the west, especially the last, this is a sacred duty to Russians.
That is why Putin mentioned June 22 in his speech to the Russian people when Nato’s Ukraine vassal was ramping up their numbers and artillery bombardments of Donetsk.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Here you go…
On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland. They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany.
It’s the same playbook as always.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
So the USA did the same thing with Panama and Grenada!!!!
Cause they dare not to go along with US claims to Central America!!!!
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Yup. American propagandists accused Iraq of developing nuclear weapons, poison gases, bacteriological weapons. It was all over the news.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
Greta in cahoots with Vlad?

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