For a Brief Moment
Polls courtesy of FiveThirtyEight, anecdotes mine.
Partisan Brawl
The New York Times reports With White House Absent, Impeachment Devolves Into Partisan Brawl.
President Trump is refusing to engage and Democrats have concluded they will press ahead anyway, rendering a historic undertaking little more than a foregone conclusion.
Excuse me for pointing out the result was a foregone conclusion whether the White House was present or not.
“That is a tragedy,” said Philip Bobbitt, a Columbia University law professor and a leading expert on the history of impeachment. The framers of the Constitution were careful to design a process for removing a president from office that they hoped would rise above the nation’s petty political squabbles, he said.
Tragedy?
Yes, witch hunts are a tragedy. Republicans found that out when they foolishly went after Bill Clinton.
Boycott the Process
Neal Katyal, the former acting solicitor general under President Barack Obama, called it “deeply dangerous” for the target of an impeachment like Mr. Trump to simply boycott the entire process.
Does the law prohibit a boycott? Does the law require the president to testify against himself? Is it dangerous to accept the advice of legal council?
Rule Book
“The fact is that the House Democrats are essentially giving Trump the same process as previous presidents have received, and it’s Trump who is trying to throw out the rule book” and attack the process at every turn, he said. “Our founders put impeachment in the Constitution as a critical safeguard for the people, and what Trump is trying to do with these baseless attacks is read the impeachment clauses out of the Constitution.”
His response has been an all-out attack on the process itself. He has ordered administration officials not to testify or hand over documents. And he is urging Republicans not to cooperate with their counterparts the way they did during Mr. Clinton’s impeachment.
Excuse me for pointing out that the law is the rule book.
What law has trump violated by boycotting the process?
Shocking?
Of course it is.
Trump continually followed the advice of legal council instead of sticking his foot in his mouth and Tweeting about it.
Quite shocking.
Hijacking the Committee
Here’s an interesting take.
Business Insider reports Republicans Hijacked the House Judiciary Committee’s Impeachment Hearings and Turned them Into a Circus.
I expect better from the Business Insider than that kind of mushy nonsense.
The only way Republicans could “hijack” the hearings is if inept Democrats called on inept witnesses and Republican made them look like fools.
That is precisely what happened.
Democrat Impeachment Star Witnesses Useful as Dust
In case you missed it, please consider Democrat Impeachment Star Witnesses Useful as Dust
Click on that link for an amusing video and transcript.
Comments on the Unreal World
Back in the real world, or do I mean unreal world, I get accused of having TDS every time I attack Trump’s idiotic trade policy.
I also get accused of being an extreme Left-Wing nutcase when I defend Trump.
The fact is, I don’t like Trump but I voted for him and would again vs Hillary.
I am a staunch anti-war, fiscal conservative, Libertarian, who does not give a damn about anyone’s race, religion, sex, or age. I believe in equal rights. I also believe in the right to choose. If two women or two men want to get married, I believe it’s none of my business.
I believe that’s a winning platform.
Alas, one cannot get nominated on that platform. Thus, I always have extreme voting compromises to make.
Independents the Key
The 2020 election will depend on independents.
Democrats may make the choice easy, as explained in How to Re-Elect Trump in One Easy Lesson.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Seriously though, I am a lifelong DEMOCRATand the reason is really simple; I am a gay man and that means voting GOP is just out of the question unless the actual survival of the nation depends on voting otherwise.
Well, I am afraid 2020 may be just exacly that kind of situation where there is no good choice no matter sexual orientation or sentimental values or anything else. Your party has excluded so many people that you now find yourself in a demographic trap. You have to expand your base or lose. It is just that simple. No buts, no qualifications, and you now will need people like me to even get to the questionable win of an electoral college error like 2016.
My situation is this, I honestly believe that Donald Trump is a criminal and a Nazi, maybe Nazi lite, but so was Hitler when he first took office, remember he became Chancellor in January of 1933 and the war did not start till late 1939. The death camps came even later. Give Trump that kind of time and you too will be justifying everything he does for one reason or another. Of course Hitler was was 43 years old when he took power and Trump will be lucky to make it through the primaries.
Sorry, I know people get upset at that comparison, but just how do you think Germany got where it did? It was by political partisanship run amok. We actually are really in the same exact position now as they were then.
Ask yourself why a man like me would ever support your party with it’s history of denying rights, it’s absolutist clinging to superstitions and sentiments that are as fake as Melania’s boobs just for power and politics.
If I agree to vote for your criminal in chief in 2020 it will not be because I want to be a bible kissing asshole that will do anything to put brown people in their place, it will be because your enemy (socialism) is OUR enemy. And I think it both rude and unkind that you and your party do not recognize the fact that MOST democrats feel the same way about socialism as you do. We can and do disagree about how to run society and capitalism on many levels, but we both agree that society and capitalism are the only things that matter, without them we all lose. There are no personal politics once a man like Sanders gets into office. That is a very real possibility, to say he is our Hugo Chavez is an insult to Hugo Chavez may he rot in hell.
I am willing to postpone our argument on your faux morality and your absurd fiscal conservatism but you have to pay your part of the deal, you have to dump the orange spy installed by Putin. And you have to get rid of Moscow Mitch because in many important ways he is guarantees that the GOP remains a tool of Russia. And that is real and you know it. If you deny the truth then it is over for all of us because you will lose people like me who can compromise to secure the nation. Without people like me you will lose and people like Sanders will win. Then we all lose. In other words, you have to meet me halfway or the deal is off. And you know as well as I do that 4 more years of Trump will destroy this nation. It will break up.
By the way, could Rudy look more like Nosfaratu if he trired?
Mish, this is sort of a non story, of course polls peaked and will now just settle down till the actual meat of the soap opera really gets going.
Though you can’t expect a hyperpartisan poll to give you any real idea of the feelings out there.
The latest I have seen is that 54% want impeachment, 50% want removal, there is no good way for the right to spin that you know. But, if you think Pelosi and the other dem leaders are delivering a couple of bland impeachment charges that are subjective and not really “high crimes” and just leave it at that you know better. There are other shoes yet to drop and timing is key.
I think there will be indictments of individuals close to Trump that will hit just in time to blindside Moscow Mitch and his planned non trial in the senate, so that he actually has to do a REAL trial.
Make no mistake, Trump has committed crimes and at an impeachable level. A majority wants impeachment, and pretty much exactly half want removal, this going into the primary season that starts in a few weeks. Even if the democrats fail to get any impeachment traction it is in a political cycle where only 34% say they will vote for Trump NO MATTER WHAT! And as an intelligent adult that you clearly are I would ask you man to man how that attitude is any better for the nation than the NEVER TRUMPERS?
Mind you I do expect the GOP to come out winning in the end but not for the right reasons. It is because demographics will emphasize the age divide between moderate democrats who are your actual friends (at least political FRENEMIES?), and the radical democrats taking over the party and which have no loyalty to the party and will sabotage the democrats just as the Sanders voters stayed at home en masse in 2016 and some even voted for Trump because they wanted Sanders over Hillary. That is going to replay but with the numbers four years larger demographically. Too bad because it is a suicidal vote management that can only please Putin.
“The 2020 election will depend on independents.”
I agree Mish but expect the unexpected in 2020. For one there are going to be a ton of new voters in Texas and other places in the south. I don’t think the Republican party will be able to count on low voter turnout so they try to scare more people into not voting or showing up on election day. A big reason why Hillary lost is because nearly everyone in both parties assumed she would win so many voters stayed home in swing states. I also expect the GRU to try and be a factor again in 2020 in swing states. Hacking elections is their core competency.
“I also expect the GRU to try and be a factor again in 2020 in swing states. Hacking elections is their core competency.”
We know that Google and Facebook and Twitter are already meddling in our 2020 election. The Mainstream media are already meddling in our election. Tulsi Gabbard has already been ATTACKED by the MSM due to her anti war positions, in an effort to influence the Democratic Party nomination.
Google, Facebook, Twitter and the MSM have no business choosing who i am allowed to vote for, for president. Those entities have far more influence to meddle in our election, than Russia.
They are the least of anyone’s concerns. GRU actually broke into election computers in 2016 in a handful of states. This means your vote may not even count if it can be electronically hacked come 2020. This also applies to primaries where general election candidates win. You can decide who to vote for but the GRU may alter the election in 2020 in multiple ways.
2020 eez ours say russian troll farms.
Besides Jordan filleting the Dems star “witness”, don’t forget sleepy Joe impaling himself with his hubris sword – link to armstrongeconomics.com
Trump did nothing wrong he was looking out for the country! Biden and all of these other politician are the crooks. They now go overseas and get their payoffs from foreign countries. Even George Soros is in the Ukraine poking around . Probably giving other payoffs to crooked politicians. This place seems to be the hub of this activity!
Remember one thing when the politicians of a country do not represent the masses any more but only their own special interests, will cause an eventual revolution ! That is what we all have to look forward too unless there are massive changes!. Get out of the big cities and away from the coastal areas! Wars we do not want happen in other places, Mother nature rises up against as well, and the scariest part is we do not know what we will eventually end up with! History we do not teach anymore shows us this very clearly from the time democratic republics were formed!
I agree with Mish’s philosophy 100% , I just have not become a Libertarian, yet!
I think the main purpose of the impeachment is to counterbalance the upcoming Durham prosecutions so that they can spin them as a corrupt attempt to deflect their legitimate impeachment drive. If there is anything approaching a fair trial in the Senate, the impeachment will fall flat since thus far nothing has come close to being a crime. I mean: since when is it a crime to use foreign aid as a bargaining chip? And if many millions of USG funds were siphoned off corruptly as is alleged and not really denied (Burisma et alia), since when is it a crime to a) investigate more about that and b) consider withholding further funding until safeguards are in place?
The whole thing is silly – and indeed quite possibly Biden’s candidacy was mounted purely for the benefit of this impeachment drama since without him being a candidate they would have no grounds at all to resist any investigations into it, nor therefore use them as the basis for impeachment. It’s a classic ‘pot calling kettle black’ scenario.
Given how entirely flimsy the whole thing is, that’s why I think the purpose is elsewhere (namely deflecting upcoming Durham revelations). But on its own, it’s a terrible abuse of congressional power, and they know it. So they must be doing this for a reason that goes beyond the frame of the impeachment process itself which has been nakedly partisan and one-sided…. no matter what, they had to get it through whether or not it would succeed.
In short: it’s a Big Fat Talking Point (like nearly everything else in Congress these days…)
“ I think the main purpose of the impeachment is to counterbalance the upcoming Durham prosecutions“
BINGO!
Indeed, the Durham investigation is at the root of this circus.
It would explain why Biden is not holding fundraisers and his campaign is still nonexistent in early primary states. Plus he doesn’t seem to know where he is (or who he is) half the time. To say he’s phoning it in would be giving him too much credit. He may pull a Chauncey Garner and win the nomination despite running what appears to be an ersatz candidacy.
Trump will continue to self-destruct until April 2020. The window for impeachment AND removal is wide open until then. The real problem I have with Trump (as a Trump voter in 2016) is that he didn’t need to use all these underhanded methods with the Ukraine and Russia (or any other foreign party). He had both parties cornered in 2016 but it is as if he didn’t think he could keep it up without cheating. This is why I say he continues to self-destruct. The guy just cannot stop himself. The biggest difference between the two parties and Trump is that Trump cannot use the institutionalized ways of cheating that the two parties have put in place.
Finally, I suggest anyone who wants to learn about how Russia operates read Sandworm. The GRU is literally using every method to fight virtual wars. No one would have an issue with this if Russia were actually a democracy. I expect the 2020s to be absolute chaos geopolitically. A actual nuclear war will likely break out somewhere. in North Africa or Asia.
It might have been politically stupid to mention Biden’s in the call with Zelinski, we’ll see … ultimately it might end Biden’s political career by bring the appearance of corruption front and center.
As far as Trump self-destructing, if you’re correct about that, he will take his political opponents with him. Can you imagine him declassifying and releasing 70 years of cover-ups?
Sure yeah. I’m sure there are 70 years of coverups and the United States is the most terrible place on earth. Trump may survive it all but he will have dig his own grave if he ‘wins’ the 2020 election. The next 4 years aren’t going to be like the last 8.
Trying to listen to this impeachment inquiry is pretty hard. I am beginning to lose faith in our lawmakers to do what’s best for this country. It has gotten too partisan which has completely hindered the chance of coming together to do what’s right for the people of the USA
Beginning to lose faith?
How much buffoonery is needed to convince you? No worries though, I’m sure they will convince you, especially if Trump wins in 2020 and they initiate impeachment 2.0 before his re-inauguration.
In context – Trump has said nothing damaging to himself regarding impeachment.
And he followed advice to not appear in his own defense in the House.
This is a good score for Trump
Intimidating witnesses? Where and who ?
Maybe he is finally learning and listening to the people around him! I agree with Mish!
This is a double edge sword for both sides and the Dems are blowing this one more than Trump!
Might be good for the Taxpayers for a change, stopping some of this graft for a while!
I’ve been an independent and voting the lesser of evils since since 1976 (Mish summed up the conundrum). I usually feel filthy afterwards. Here’s my voting history before I make my point: Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, abstained, Bush, Bush, Obama, Romney (wish I had abstained), Trump.
The only vote I felt really good about BEFORE AND STILL DO — the first term of Reagan.
I found Trump’s name calling, boasting, exaggerating, and apparent lack of frontal lobes disturbing— I almost abstained for a second time, but the Clinton’s have proven to be evil and corrupt beyond a shadow of doubt to my mind. I had to vote against her.
Trump has identified, provoked, and successfully humiliated the establishment Republicans and Democrats as well as the entrenched bureaucracy’s leadership that runs our country. Their corruption, including the false narratives regarding Trump’s “impeachable offenses” are on full display, especially the corporate owned MSM.
I plan to vote for Trump a second time for the sole purpose of punishing the establishment and “elite” who think they can override an election. It helps that all the alternatives are bat crap crazy.
Well said. Always good (and interesting) to read different perspectives…
This does make one ponder the eternal question: ‘what is truth’?
Trump (for all his warts) has certainly ripped the mask off the ‘fraud’ that is ‘mainstream’ politics and its acolytes – the mainstream news media…
I was never and still I am not a fan of Trump.
My sister is an Ivy League graduate, my wife has an uncle who is a GOP politician, and the daughter of my friend works for Dems in California.
My vote for Trump in 2020 is against these people noted above. The amount of contempt for the ‘little people’ I have seen emanate from such people is astounding.
But .. but .. Hillary LOVES the deplorables (pardon me, the ‘little people’) which is why she won the last election …. oh wait …
“Yes, witch hunts are a tragedy.”
And this is a witch hunt, despite Sechel’s claim it is not.
Trump was not a member of the political club and they have been out to get him from before Trump even got the nomination. He is not one of “us.” That is why he was spied on, unlike any presidential candidate before him.
There were 51 violations of Woods procedures in the FISA warrants. 9 of the violations were false statements. That goes beyond making simple mistakes, as Horowitz claimed.
The so-called whistleblower is being hidden from public view, not because his life is in danger, considering his name is already a badly kept secret, but to hide the facts surrounding him from public scrutiny and cross examination.
Yes, it is a witch hunt.
Seems to me to be a question of probable cause. Did Trump have reason to believe that the Bidens were engaging in activities in the Ukraine that were in violation of federal law? If so, there is no amount political BS the Dems can dredge to have reason to impeach. If not, well then…
I have heard nothing about this. This is the crux of it. The use of foreign aid to coerce foreign governments is pretty much its reason to exist. This is pretty well understood by all the A-Holes on all sides. I’m sick of this stupid circus
“Business Insider reports Republicans Hijacked the House Judiciary Committee’s Impeachment Hearings and Turned them Into a Circus.”
A while back i came across B.I. I came to realize they had an anti Trump bias and stopped going to their site.
The Brownshirts, huh, umm, I mean the Republicans are trying to disrupt these hearings just like they tried to disrupt the prior hearings and by storming the closed door hearings because they really don’t have any thing else. Nobody’s denying the facts of the case – Trump used U.S. foreign policy to further his own political goals. Full stop.
Overlooking Trump’s personal behavior is one thing, giving him a pass as he corrupts the government and tries to turn it into an instrument of Trump, Inc., is another. Unfortunately he’s so flawed he can’t tell the difference and needs to go.
“The start of Monday’s Judiciary Committee impeachment hearing was filled with back-and-forth bickering between Republican members and Nadler over points of order and parliamentary inquiries.”
“The Brownshirts, huh, umm, I mean the Republicans are trying to disrupt these hearings just like they tried to disrupt the prior hearings and by storming the closed door hearings because they really don’t have any thing else.”
It is Nadler and Schiff that don’t have anything. all the witnesses said Trump committed no crime.
Last I checked, Trump is still President and living in the White House, while the Dems are imploding. Happy Days! 😉
More Fun to Come
The Dems will eat each other up during the primaries and go into their convention with no nominee. This will result in a nuclear-level floor fight to arrive at one.
Look for Clinton to try and ride in on her white horse, which will send the LEFT-LEFT into orbit.
Not sure the Democratic party can survive all this – nor should they.
Oh i’m sure Hillary won’t be able to resist another prom queen contest.
Were you born after the 2018 bloodbath?
What would be her campaign slogan? … Restore Me?
What would be her campaign strategy? … Pre-recorded rallies and debate refusals to hide her Parkinson’s disease?
re: Hillary’s 2020 campaign slogan
Interesting question… Maybe ‘Let’s get it right this time!”
Democratic party couldn’t survive her entrance into the race…
A little hope for all those TDS people out there:
Republicans can’t be too smug. Trump won’t be Prez forever (despite allegations to the contrary). The Republicans will have a very hard time coming together (if ever).
Truth is not determined by voting.
Trump is as guilty as sin. Republican politicians are so scared of their base who love Trump that they will look the other way to anything. As you said, this was a foregone conclusion, but at least it documented that we have a criminal in the White House. What horse’s asses these people are.
Spot on. I can’t believe Mish thinks the Ukraine conversation had to do with anything other than Trump trying to get re-elected. We shouldn’t be too hard on him though because his toilet flushing policies are long overdue.
Maybe , the Ukraine hype was about getting re-elected , MAYBE ! ….Fact is the Bidens are a corrupt bunch, FACT !
“The Clintons” are being replaced by “The Bidens” as the right wing boogie family – seems the easily trained sheep are at the ready.
“The Clintons” are being replaced by “The Bidens” as the right wing boogie family – seems the easily trained sheep are at the ready.”
Biden bragged that he extorted Porochenko into firing Shokin.
What crime is there evidence of? Hiring a know liar to spread false accusations and then obtaining a warrant to spy on your political opponent. Oh wait that’s crooked Hilary the frequent flier to Epstein’s pedophile island. Talk about being a sycophant you are the epitome. A lobotomy would do you good.
hmk
One thing I like about Mish’s forum’s are the lack of insults and name-calling.
Let’s try to keep it that way
What are his crimes except to resist a coup, and call it one? Funny how Trump is presumed guilty of colluding with the Russians and Biden is presumed innocent of colluding with the Ukranians.
“Trump is as guilty as sin. Republican politicians are so scared of their base who love Trump that they will look the other way to anything.”
You parrot leftist talking points well.
No hearing witness said Trump committed any crime.
“I believe that’s a winning platform.” – The LIbertarian party was (is?) offering that for decades and it’s been a money hole (I was an active member from ’90 to ’08 until Bob F’in Barr), not a winning platform. Leaving people alone and living your own life can’t compete with stealing from others, blowing up innocent folks, and telling other folks how to live.