Total Chaos in Kabul, People Cling to Exiting Planes

‘Saigon on Steroids’: The Desperate Rush to Flee Afghanistan

The WSJ comments ‘Saigon on Steroids’: The Desperate Rush to Flee Afghanistan

“It’s crazy. It is out of control now,” said Shoaib, an Afghan interpreter who had talked his way through several checkpoints.

The chaos at Kabul airport was the dizzying final act of a lightning Taliban offensive that saw the militants seize the last of the remaining cities under government control, culminating with the country’s capital.

Intelligence Failure

Anatol Lieven, a Politico writer who has covered the wars in Afghanistan, Chechnya and the southern Caucasus explains Why Afghan Forces So Quickly Laid Down Their Arms.

In the winter of 1989, as a journalist for the Times of London, I accompanied a group of mujahedeen fighters in Afghanistan’s Ghazni province. At one point, a fortified military post became visible on the other side of a valley. As we got closer, the flag flying above it also became visible — the flag of the Afghan Communist state, which the mujahedeen were fighting to overthrow.

“Isn’t that a government post?” I asked my interpreter. “Yes,” he replied. “Can’t they see us?” I asked. “Yes,” he replied. “Shouldn’t we hide?” I squeaked. “No, no, don’t worry,” he replied reassuringly. “We have an arrangement.”

This dense web of relationships and negotiated arrangements between forces on opposite sides is often opaque to outsiders. Over the past 20 years, U.S. military and intelligence services have generally either not understood or chosen to ignore this dynamic as they sought to paint an optimistic picture of American efforts to build a strong, loyal Afghan army.

The central feature of the past several weeks in Afghanistan has not been fighting. It has been negotiations between the Taliban and Afghan forces, sometimes brokered by local elders.

In Afghanistan, kinship and tribal connections often take precedence over formal political loyalties, or at least create neutral spaces where people from opposite sides can meet and talk. Over the years, I have spoken with tribal leaders from the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region who have regularly presided over meetings of tribal notables, including commanders on opposite sides.

One of the key things discussed at such meetings is business, and the business very often involves heroin. 

These arrangements also serve practical purposes. It is often not possible for guerrilla forces to hold any significant number of prisoners of war. Small numbers might be held for ransom, but most ordinary soldiers are let go, enlisted in the guerrillas’ own ranks or killed.

We can draw a clear line between this lack of understanding and the horrible degree of surprise at the events of the past several days. America didn’t predict this sudden collapse, but it could have and should have — an unfortunately fitting coda to a war effort that has been undermined from the start by a failure to study Afghan realities.

Biden will address the nation later today.

Once again, this war was not winnable. Hell, after 20 years, US intelligence did not even learn Afghan customs.

Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all failed in that regard. 

Pitiful. 

No Win Position

On April 17, I commented Biden Has a No-Win Position in Afghanistan No Matter What He Does

  • If we stay in, the interventionists will seek more troops for as long as it takes, undoubtedly at least another 100 years.  
  • If we leave and Kubul falls the interventionists will say “see I told you so.” 
  • If we leave and nothing happens, expect Republicans to praise Trump for setting a withdrawal date of May 2021 rather than Biden for actually pulling the troops.

At least Biden got us out, assuming he stupidly goes not get us back in. 

Here’s How to Stay in Afghanistan Forever: Listen to the WSJ Editorial Board

Lesson of the Day

The overriding lesson of the day is don’t put US troops where they do not belong on nearly endless missions in the first place.

Bush started it, then Obama and Trump kept us there in a war that could not be won.

 Along the way, the mission morphed from getting Bin Laden to nation building without any administration having a clue about Afghan tribal customs. 

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Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
“I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop.” Donald Trump at a 2021 rally in Ohio. 
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
“I’ll be meeting personally with Taliban leaders in the not-too-distant future. And we’ll be very much hoping that they will be doing what they say they’re going to be doing: They will be killing terrorists. They will be killing some very bad people. They will keep that fight going.” Donald Trump, February 29, 2020

Cocoa
Cocoa
2 years ago
The war was not winnable BUT big defense, Intelligence was able to pick pocket the US taxpayer for 3 decades. Think of all the money that went to contractors, manufacturers of weapons. Then think about how Don Rumsfeld announced that we lost 2 trillion dollars in the accounting.Nobody knows where it went. Then think about how 9-11 happened soon after. Corporate anarchists have been pillaging the country for years.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
Americans have become tax slaves over the past twenty years.
Esclaro
Esclaro
2 years ago
They surrendered to the Taliban. Now they can die with the Taliban. To hell with all of them. 
RoyaleWCheese
RoyaleWCheese
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
No. They will not die with the Taliban. Many of them will be coming to the US as refugees, because we really need refugees to water the tree of US democracy.  
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
OT….Bob Dylan got #meetoo’ed. Is there anybody left?
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Did you see Dylan kept emaculate records of where he was, where he played, and where he stayed? He was on tour and locations other than the one the woman claims in her lawsuit. 

My neighbor has a great Bob Dylan story. He is a fascinating guy.

Tengen
Tengen
2 years ago
Those trying to flee Kabul seem to have very little in common with most of their countrymen. It’s like they exist in different worlds.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
As someone who served, I always find it fascinating anyone believes there is a winnable war. Here we are trillions deeper in debt–noting the national debt has skyrocketed since 2001–while those who clearly funded and were most involved in the terrorist attacks on 9/11, the Saudis, haven’t even had their hand slapped. The real loser in this besides those who lost loved ones in combat fighting this nonsensical and poorly planned military action, is the US tax payer. We are nothing more than tax slaves watching our liberties erode while the load on our shoulders increase.

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

James Madison, Political Observations, Apr. 20, 1795 in: Letters and Other Writings of James Madison, vol. 4, p. 491 (1865)

amigator
amigator
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
Great analysis.
My take is the plan worked exactly as needed and continues to function close to perfection. The idea from the beginning was to bring in more government and close the loop holes of freedom and allow printing of dollars to enrich all those in the game. The war on terrorism is an ongoing battle for which there is no price tag that is too much. 
What’s unbelievable is we re-elect the same guys that follow this plan year after year. These wars just do not happen we create them as theater to distract our attention as “the gamers” fill their pockets with cash.
Washington DC has some of the best acting in the world.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Another OT….Bob Dylan is being #meetoo’ed. Shoulda known this was coming. Who is left?
The alleged incident supposedly occurred in 1965 at the now infamous Chelsea Hotel…..and I can pretty much guarantee you that this plaintiff was not the only 12 year old groupie ever (allegedly) boinked by a rock star there. It’s the place Sid Vicious let his girlfriend Nancy Spungen OD and die in bed…..damn near every rock band that ever toured stayed there and the place was known for two generations as a place where drugs, orgies and God-knows-what took place on a regular basis. 
There was a documentary about the Chelsea that came out a few years back…which was excellent. The former doorman’s stories were epic.
The statute of limitations for rape in NY run out after 20 years….but there is no statute of limitations on a civil case….
Can you just imagine the extreme psychological damage this poor woman has endured during the 56 yers it took her to bravely come forward? 
Dylan is 81….it is said that he kicked a heroin habit way back in ’66….so who know what he did or didn’t do in ‘65. He was hotter than Elvis at that particular moment..
I’m not defending anybody….but 56 years later? And didn’t the parents have some responsibility for keeping their cute teeny-bopper daughter out of the Chelsea Hotel? 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Good photo ops for people to post on social media and play the Blame Game….which is in high gear as we speak.
WTF cares really? No reason to lay blame on anybody.
Those of us with modest critical thinking skills saw this coming a long time ago. I started predicting it years ago when the mission creep turned into nation-building and “making the world safe for democracy”….that least likely of all possible outcomes……..in places that have never valued such ideas at all.
OT…the link below is for a YT that gives a great breakdown on the new IPCC report from last week….climate campaigners will hate it. So will climate deniers. The tiny group of people who prefer the truth to wild hyperbole might get some benefit from watching. FYI.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Everyone knew it but the ones who make the decisions. Time for a shakeup.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Yup, each POTUS since Bush punted the responsiblity of exiting out of this mess to the next until finally one day someone actually realized the clock ran out and it was time to exit.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
2 years ago
“You f****d up. You trusted us.”

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