I am sure many would say yes, but there’s a catch.
The Toyota BZ3X Starts at About $15,000
The Wall Street Journal discussed What a $15,000 Electric SUV Says About U.S.-China Car Rivalry
The offer sounds like a scam—a new Toyota electric-powered sport-utility vehicle for about $15,000, complete with sunroof and cup holders.
But the Toyota bZ3X is real, and it is actually on sale starting at that price. There is a catch: To buy one, you have to be in China.
“There is no such thing as a world car anymore,” said Jürgen Reers, global lead for the automotive business at Accenture.
For an American used to a $50,000 gasoline-powered SUV as the standard family choice, the Chinese market is hardly recognizable.
A majority of new vehicles sold in China are either fully electric or plug-in hybrids, and a look around the recent auto show in Shanghai showed that local makers have mostly stopped introducing new gasoline-powered models. In the U.S., by contrast, the traditional combustion engine still powers about eight in 10 new vehicles.
Most Chinese buyers these days are buying a local brand. Some, such as BYD, have begun to gain international recognition, but the malls are filled with dealers that offer brands virtually unknown abroad—Zeekr, Lynk & Co, Aion, Aito and many more.
The price difference is overwhelming. Chinese car buyers no longer need to debate whether an EV can be made affordable, not when a decent starter model costs $10,000 and a luxury seven-seater with reclining massage chairs can be had for $50,000. Because of customer demand, even the low-end models come with advanced driver-assistance software.
Tesla has two models widely available—Model 3 and Model Y—and both have been on the market for years. China’s BYD has about 25 models, according to the market-analysis firm Inovev, and is constantly introducing more.
Tesla’s sales in China in the first quarter were slightly up at around 135,000, but its market share has plateaued at around 3%.
Toyota said its bZ3X—the recently introduced model that starts at $15,000—was designed in China by the company’s engineers in the country, who worked with a local joint-venture partner. It is made in Guangzhou with Chinese batteries and driver-assistance software from Momenta, a Chinese leader in that field.
“This couldn’t happen without a Chinese supply chain,” said Masahiko Maeda, head of Toyota’s Asia business. “Unless you localize, it’s out of the question.”
A Toyota spokesman said the company received 15,000 orders on the first day the bZ3X went on sale in China in March, more than expected. Many buyers are choosing to spend a few thousand dollars extra to get more advanced driver-assistance functions, he said.
Maeda said the U.S. has a “costly supply chain,” meaning Toyota’s U.S. showrooms won’t be selling a $15,000 electric SUV soon. The closest equivalent, a slightly longer model called the bZ4X, starts at around $40,000 in the U.S.
People in the industry say that thanks to China’s supply chain, it is still possible to make money on a $15,000 vehicle. BYD, the leader in that price range, said its first-quarter profit doubled to more than $1 billion.
The Detroit three automakers—General Motors, Ford Motor and Stellantis’s U.S. arm—are settling into niches in China. U.S. brands collectively had a 5.7% market share in China in the first quarter of this year, according to the China Passenger Car Association, down from 8.5% three years ago.
Almost all of the U.S.-branded vehicles sold in China are Chinese-made, taking advantage of the country’s supply chain. Imports from the U.S. are minuscule as a proportion of the total market.
Pay More – Get Less
That is Trump’s unofficial motto as well as the UAW and Teamsters.
The BZ3X would be a hot seller in the US at $15,000 or even $20,000.
But Trump wants you to to pay more. His 145 percent tariff that would price the car at $37,000 or so.
Losers and Winners
- Winners: The UAW has over 400,000 active members. The more you pay for a car, the happier they are. Dealers are also happy.
- Losers: Anyone buying a car, leasing a car, or paying insurance on a car.
Winning Big!
Trump wants you to pay more for clothes, bicycles, shoes, lawn mowers, iPhones, and literally everything.
Paying more and getting less is what Trump calls “winning big”.
Manufacturing Greatness in Pictures
In addition to tiny screws requiring an army of millions, it has also proven difficult to automate some clothing goods.
The above image is from the following You-Tube video.
If only we could bring these jobs back to the US, we could compete with Vietnam.
Great Video on Good Manufacturing Jobs
Here’s another great video on “Good Manufacturing Jobs” are coming back from Vietnam.
It’s only 32 seconds long.
What If?
Just imagine the greatness of doubling manufacturing employment from 12.7 million to 25.4 million.
That would pass previous peak greatness of June 1979 at 19.5 million. Wow.
And then we would have manufacturing employment of 25.4 million out of total employment of 163.9 million, about 15 percent.
Some of long for even better greatness. So do I.
I am hoping we go back to a time when 9 out of 10 worked on a farm. Wouldn’t that be amazing!
An Era Gone By
Greatness has moved from farming to manufacturing to chip design, services, and AI.
Trump longs for an era gone by, never to return again.
His measure of success is still millions of people working like the Vietnamese in the videos above.
If manufacturing ever returns to the US again, it will be via fully automated robots. Employment will plunge.
The future of manufacturing employment is bleak.
Irony of the Year
Trump wants to be more like Vietnam just as Vietnam hopes to lift its society up to where the US was 40 years ago.
And to go backward, Trump wants everyone to pay more to get less.
Trump finds it easy to get the economically clueless on his side with chants of “They are stealing out jobs; they are ripping us off; and it’s unfair trade”.
Trump never asks, would you like a $15,000 EV Toyota
Related Posts
April 14, 2025: Trump’s Plan to Make Manufacturing Great Again in Pictures
The share of manufacturing employment keeps declining. What role did NAFTA play?
May 3, 2025: Amazon’s Amazing Rise in Package Delivery and 20,000 UPS Layoffs
Since 2014, Amazon has gone from 0% to 28% of package delivery.
Also note Consumers Face End of De Minimis Tariff Exemptions on $800 Packages
The trade provision that allows consumers and resellers to avoid duties on shipments worth $800 or less is ending for products made in China.
Hooray!? 40% to 100% Higher Prices
Who wants that? (Exclusions for cultist parrots who cannot think).
The idea we are going to bring shoe or clothes manufacturing back to the US (or that we would like the price result if we did) is of course ludicrous.
I quickly scanned the comments. The focus of the post was on the price of the car and being able to sell it in China. I was hoping Papa Dave or Mish would chime in on how much electricity production has been brought online by China to power said cars’ electricity in the last 10 years, much of which is through coal plants. We are kavetching we don’t have enough power to power AI data centers and we don’t build coal-fired plants and in fact take them offline, mostly by converting to natural gas. But I was hoping the comment section would cover the possibility and impact if there were a massive adoption of and access to an affordable EV in the US vis-a-via electricity demand and cost.
If my electricity were cheap and available AND if the car were inexpensive, I’d buy one to do the bulk of my driving and retain my old truck to do the local heavy work.
But everything here is too expensive and the electricity is not yet available to handle that from what I see, without regard to the price of the EV which this post covers.
Interestingly as the demographics of the Boomers turn toward the final turn, EV adoption by that cohort would seem a no-brainer. Less maintenance, plug and play, and surely they drive less where range isn’t a concern. Even on longer trips I believe most would stop to rest, eat, relax which would allow reasonable time to recharge somewhere. I know I drive WAY less such that the range equation is now neutral or favorable.
I guess 15 thousands us dollars in China are much more than 15 thousand is dollars in US. Does it make semse to do this comparision?
Of course it makes sense. Were it not for idiotic tariffs, it would be $15,000 here too plus shipping costs.
I don’t think it is a fair comparison because the price in China is based on their wages, taxes and cost of living. That is why they can build cheaper in the first place. If a Chinese person has to work for two years to have enough after tax money to buy the car, an American would also have to work two years but their after tax income would be much higher.
The robot thing is key. But unless you’re already building stuff, how do you bootstrap robotic manufacturing into existence? As it stands now, China has already won that game as well. And think about what a modern military ought to look like today…. (Hint: Look at what’s going on in Ukraine .. literally thousands of drones in the air every day). Also ask yourself how the US Navy and the Israeli Defense Forces have managed to be stalemated by one of the poorest nations on the planet.
The bigger problem is pointing out problems and NOT having effective solutions.
To succeed in free trade, a country needs a competitive advantage(s). The US had such advantages coming out of WW2, and squandered them over the next 50 years. EG. infrastructure, manufacturing plant/equipment, natural wealth, education…
The likelihood of Making America Great Again, short of a nuclear war that sets the world back 100 years, is about ZERO!
Either get used to a lower national standard of living (“… I am hoping we go back to a time when 9 out of 10 worked on a farm. Wouldn’t that be amazing!…”) or INNOVATE, which is increasingly difficult as schools continue to churn out non-thinkers.
And so here we are, with so many on the right actually fetishizing the Amish, of all people, for their work ethic, eschewing of establishment medicine, and traditional family values (not to mention the blond ethnic purity.) Subsistence farming and 14 hour work days churning butter and working the fields. But wait …I thought that’s what we disdained about the Chinese? Now you’re telling me they build great cars for nothing? I’m so confused.
i’ve lived among the Amish, they don’t possess blond ethnic purity. its strange your mind should run to such provably false statements.
If I understand you, you are praising a multi-cultural sloth filled society of gluttonous consumers, creating nothing as the epitome of modern american society.
would this be a correct assessment of your dream world?
Not sure where I said anything of the sort. Weirdo. Get back to your spinning wheel.
Mish, watch the movie “American Factory,” which is on Netflix.
Compare the high quality and dedication of the Chinese workers with the low quality and high expectations of the American workers.
Manufacturing is not returning to the U.S.
Wendy
Wendy is an unusual name for a chinese bot. I like the finality of your all knowing statement “Mfg is not returning to the U.S.”
an opinion is not a fact. even when stated emphatically.
Bot or not, she is right.
you would need a whole bunch of illegal immigrants to do these jobsif they did come back, as Americans would not work in these sweatshops for those wages and Trump is getting rid of immigrants as well.
once the manufacturing jobs come back there will be a run on help wanted signs.
I am in Italy. And evwn here always the same semplification: either illigal immigration or no immigration altogether. Maube, just maybe, there might be a legal immigration? It is all what is asked for. Legality is a word which may match with immigration.
It could be DEI for robots.
The world has relied on the American consumer . Their salaries have stagnated for decades and now we have people saying how great it is to be Chinese working in a pit of despair to make junk that nobody needs. The answer is simple -lower your expectations
-don’t have kids
-don’t buy crap
-assume your elected officials will never help you
It’s over for the US, MAGA or not. We are cooked
manufacturing will come back to the US when Americans accept the working and living conditions of the Chinese and Vietnamese that have those jobs now. that will not happen because it’d be a huge step back even for Americans that are unemployed.
aka “will work for fentanyl”
Attitudes can change quickly with the economy. In the 1980’s recession, people were happy to get a job, any job, because there were few welfare options and bills had to be paid. Young people today can do the same as we did 50 years ago. Suck it up, put one foot in front of the other, and walk to your shitty job because you have no choice. Resilience lies in all of us but is rarely tested.
I like that Toyota EV. As for jobs coming back not coming back, I still think there is a larger geopolitical game being played here- not that it is being played well or with clear cut intentions/outcomes, but none the less it is being played. I agree that the tariffs need to just go away. I would rather us try to clean up and lean up D.C.
If Americans are ‘above’ those type of manufacturing (sewing clothing video) jobs and other types of blue collar jobs, what is to be done with the tens of millions of average ability, working class Americans?
Because we have seen what happens when those blue collar workers lost their livelihoods by the millions when their jobs were off-shored.
Or, when they were replaced by illegal and cheaper labor that was allowed to flood across our unsecured borders.
Small towns and big towns ravaged by drugs due to formerly proud working people feeling useless and lost and turning to drugs and alcohol to block out the hopelessness.
Those same towns losing their tax bases due to those jobs going away.
And also having to expand their social safety nets to attempt to accommodate the town’s ever-increasing poverty.
So, what is to be done with these lost people?
I guess Bill Gates and the WEF have the answer..
But only a ghoul would agree with that idea.
“If Americans are ‘above’ those type of manufacturing (sewing clothing video) jobs and other types of blue collar jobs, what is to be done with the tens of millions of average ability, working class Americans?”
That’s it in a nutshell. Learn to Code is being done in by AI. Doing Each Others Web Pages was a bust back in the ’90s, and Flipping Each Others Burgers failed in the ’80s.
Home Automation means no Downton Abbey situation either even overlooking the fact the operation was going broke even then.
Given Mish’s agonized howling about his prices going up 10% imagine the screeches he’ll make when he gets hit with a Krugman approved 70% income tax to pay for UBI for all the permanently unemployed people.
That someone down-votes this comment is symptomatic of the underlying issue–a society based on dependency.
Cheap Chinese Junk, they can have it. Two, maybe three years before that piece of crap pukes. Good luck! Chinese stuff lasts a long time??? hahahhahhahahahhaha Got any turds for sale? hhahahahahahha
Absolutely false. These vehicles are dramatically higher quality than Fords and GMs in almost every way.
And your evidence would be?
My last pair of Chinese diagonal cutters broke off at the handle cutting a #12 copper wire.
Minimum Acceptable Quality in a mantra with them. In that case they didn’t even meet that.
Then don’t buy them again and write a negative online review for other potential buyers.
If everyone else agrees with you, that Chinese producer will lose sales here. But if you find a good Chinese tool, enjoy the low cost and have at it. That’s how a market system works.
by the time you waste your time buying a plethora of chinese junk tools, you could have spent the same amount on a good used american tool built when industry was american.
I think its great to have choices. I would love to have the choice of buying an American or Chinese product at the same price, tariffs could accomplish this.
If the Chinese product is better it will win in the market place, thats how a market system works.
Actually a market system works by providing good value. For china that generally means providing low to medium quality at an exceptional price. It works, ask Walmart.
what did chairman mao say when you were sharing Tsing Tao’s back in the day? “A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with.”
A “market system” does not work by having an elected politician or a government bureaucrat equalize prices for all goods.
The fact you think this says a lot about the kookiness of your other many comments here on this thread
and yet they managed to make you think outside your comfort zone of the daily propaganda..
You don’t fix a problem by repeating the problem over and over.
Perhaps your education has removed your ability to see beyond the box they have put you in.
Toyota said its bZ3X—the recently introduced model that starts at $15,000—was designed in China by the company’s engineers in the country, who worked with a local joint-venture partner and MASSIVELY SUBSIDIZED BY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT
The way China subsidizes its industry is different than most folks think. These car companies get loans directly from government owned banks. Critically, the loans are structured such that payments don’t begin until production starts (often years down the road). Once the companies are up and running, repayments are based on profitability. The government will happily write down the principal and interest to ensure success. If success isn’t possible, they’ll have a competitor take over. But the Chinese don’t subsidize individual sales. The cars are cheap because the Chinese believe in competitive capitalism. They create literally dozens of companies in every category competing ferociously for business. In our free market system where there are generally only one or two competitors, manufacturers can collude on price to maximize shareholder value. In socialist China, efficiency and price (value) are considered more important.
many companies are owned in party by Chinese Communist Party, and many shares are also held by party members. It behooves them to protect their investments, by a number of what we would call shady business practices.
The price could be 50% lower once the factory is converted to dark, robot manufacturing only. They could probably even be customized during the manufacturing process and not have to wait weeks or months for add-on’s.
Fully automated, dark factories are the future of manufacturing of anything in any country.
If the robots do all the work, where do the people get their money from to buy the cars etc? Asking for a robot
Experts only consider 1st level consequences,its how they sleep at night. and why they think everyone else who disagrees is stupid.
Everything will be free then!
Chinese cars mfg are vertical. “This couldn’t happen without Chinese supply chain”. “Unless u localize, it’s out of question”. BYD, Toyota, Zeekr, Lynk….are doing what Ford did a hundred years ago in River Rouge. Model T ev. No Ice. The globalis built stuff with components from China, Canada, Mexico, S.Korea, Thailand and India to reduce UAW. Without 25% tariffs they will not come and build plants onshore. These plants, their satellites and their highly skilled workers are profit ctr. They will fill: cities, states and the federal gov coffer and stabilize the supply chain. Unless the unstoppable UAW strike again as they did for a hundred years between 1870’s and the 1970’s, following Karl Marx footsteps.
except Ford paid his workers, an actual living wage. Read “1929” by Warren Sloat. You can’t understand the present if you don’t know the past.
Great book, especially interesting to undestand who Charles Schwab was and what he did. Chaplin,Edison,Hemingway and hundreds of others are all there, real people creating this world we inhabit now.
Call it what it is: Soviet Central Planning.
Trump does his best to emulate his bestie in Russia.
amusing, that a capitalist builder of hotels and casinos, is thought to be a communist given to central planning. I am constantly amazed at the propaganda abilities of the internet to brainwash people into beleiving nearly anything. World is flat, didn’t go the moon, rather meet a bear in the woods, than a man, Trump is a communist sleeping with Putin.
If I told people they would live in a world such as this, only 20 years ago. I would have been committed to an insane asylum. Instead I get to live inside this real time mad-house of confused, and manipulated reality.
Poor you.
Not sure about the other rumours listed but i think based on Trumps actions to date in favouring Russia and complimenting Putin wherever possible (Ukraine started the war?)it is at least logical to assume that for whatever reason Trump is a Putin fan and Putin does not have many out here in the west.
Happy Cinco de Mayo Guac.
One of us is confused it seems.
Step outside the cult.
you are correct, the issue is, as always, figuring out who is confused and who is the confuser.
These cars (and many others made for non-US market) aren’t allowed on US roads, tariffs or not. The electric cars don’t comply with the insane US “safety” regulations, such as collision, rollover, etc…. It doesn’t matter that that they’re built better than EVs built a decade ago – insanity prevails when government is involved. And complying with US regulations is an expensive ordeal, adding considerable costs in terms of engineering and manufacturing. For example, adding 8 or 10 airbags (which even US government studies have shown no improvement versus wearing a seatbelt) at $2000 a pop. Then designing the system and structure for those airbags. Then more steel to comply with rollover requirements. Then a bigger battery to move that hog down the road. Pretty soon you’re at a $50,000 EV again.
This is one phase of the plan. Older fully functional car has minor accident sufficient to trigger a number of airbags. Insurance totals car because of cost of replacing airbags, not cost of repairing bent fenders.
“Good Manufacturing Jobs” are the exact same jobs as “sweat shop labor”.
And are mostly “good” to anyone but those who have had such a job.
What’s lost now is your path as the son of a successful union father: You could be trained in a month to do a better paying job than 90% of your peers.
The current transition away from manufacturing jobs should be way, way less disruptive than the 1930-1945 final transition away from farming jobs. Relative to other vocations, manufacturing was never as big a deal as farming.
It’s all about preparations for the next big war. We need “good manufacturing jobs” to make drones, mines, missiles, ordinance, tanks, ships and all of the related electronics. In that sense, manufacturing has always been a big deal. Once you outsource your war machine, you no longer have a reliable war machine. The maniacs who insist that the US should rule the world have now figured out that the US has become the emperor with no clothes.
a good war machine can be used offensively or defensively. The ability to build you own machines and mine and process your own strategic materials is a basic requirement of enduring a siege, an attack, a war.
it used to be common sense to understand these concepts, now it inspires hysteria.
I left the US and moved my family to Mexico, BYDs and other Chinese cars everywhere. I Plan on buying my wife the BYD Song Plus. Amazing hybrid vehicle for 35k that would easily be 65-75k in the states with less features. It gets nearly 700 miles per tank.
Another reason to avoid Teslas has surfaced. Remote disabling for political reasons.
Musk has disabled multiple vehicles in Russia for the political views of their owners.
When is he going to activate them for use as weapons against their owners?
Sounds like that old movie “Christine” where the car becomes possessed and goes on a killing spree!
Looks like another reason to short Tesla, but the puts are sooooo expensive since its last run-up.
Or, alternatively take action against democrats during an election. OOPS! Sorry your Tesla won’t take you to vote!
😉
Newer generation software will allow you to vote from your car. /s
I so enjoy the speculative fiction that passes for opinion on this site..
Hmm, I agree with the gist of this post but I wouldn’t trust a $15k new vehicle right away. Could be a Ford Pinto situation.
You mean like the Chevy Corvair?
a ton or more of mass traveling at 70mph is a dangerous situation, irregardless of make model or country of origin.
I think the vehicle matters little when the drivers can’t be bothered to put down their phone and pay attention to the world they are in at the moment.
Unsafe at any speed, actual refers to the drivers since at least 1990..
Th United States economy will not survive a Globalized world going forward.
With or without Trump.
We all know it and feel it. On the whole, our Children/Grandchildren will not be as well off as the 60+ generation have it.
The world is already globalized and the US is surviving just fine. The younger generations are poorer already, but not because of globalization. They’re poorer because the nation’s wealth has been allowed to accumulate in the hands of far too few people.
What a good little socialist you are.
From a non socialist there is more than a hint of truth in Jons comment, both here and the US.
nothing is written in stone, unless you give up. we create the world we live in. don’t like it, change it.
The children are worse, than their parents at being motivated to do no more than clench their fists and cry at the sky.
You make your world daily. If you don’t like the world, make a better one. all it takes is effort, desire and thought, rather than reaction, voyeurism and inertia.
A generation raised without imagination, on video games and anime, and cellphones can complain in real time with the entire world, but can’t put together a plan to make their lives better. They have little reasoning abilities, no creativity, and a vast preponderance to navel gaze and bitch fest about any perceived slight they have ever received.
They have been trained to fail, its really the only thing they are really successful at.
Yes the world is hard, it has always been hard. despite that it can be made beautiful and wonderful, or it can be hell and disgusting. its the same world. Those living in it must learn to live in it, and to chose the world they want to live in.
hate on me, the problem is in your mirror.
Thanks for the education lesson, Boomer LOL
old people were revered for wisdom. why do you think it is now popular to denigrate age? At least contemplate the reasons for the propaganda you repeat. make an effort, the calendar daily transforms you into that which you hate. at least attempt to acquire wisdom from your days here.
Market down?
Trump: “At the end of this, I’ll set my own deals because I set the deal. They don’t set the deal. I set the deal. They’ve been ripping us off for years. I set the deal … we don’t have to sign them. I’m going to be setting the deal. I’m setting the tariff.”
BTW, how do you tariff movies?
Speaking of EVs, oil just hit its lowest price in over 4 years. Stock futures down.
I haven’t mentioned the price of $Melania meme coin in a while, but it hit an all time low within the last hour (33 cents).
The BYD cars are quite amazing and it will be interesting to see how U.S. cars sell in China after the trump disaster. My guess is they will fall further to only 1% of market share at the most. Ford has stopped shipping most of its vehicles to China. Meanwhile my friends in Great Britain and Australia are sending me shots of their impeccably finished BYD’s and laughing at U.S. consumers for buying outdated technology. They especially hate Tesla’s!
Meanwhile trump is trying to take us back to a time that basically sucked for laborers in factories. No one that I know wants to work in a sweat shop environment manufacturing phones, clothes or other labor intensive activities.
Remind me of the time when people wanted to go back to the horse and buggy.
Not Happening!
BYD manufacturers in Lancaster California, they make EV transit busses subsidized by our Federal government.
You probably already knew, I post that here from time to time since I found out a month or two ago.
I got to thinking how cool it would be if the could find a loophole to build mini busses that we could buy.
I love irony, always have, always will.
There are many car companies following Nokia and Alcatel path.
They will be obsolete if they can’t keep up with modern trend.
Triple BINGO Mish! The dimwitted MAGA cult can’t seem to put 2 and 2 together. The reason insurance costs keeps soaring is because the price of cars keeps going up. Eventually, this whole thing will implode as it becomes impossible to maintain car and insurance payments for most people. The same for housing cost and operational expenses.
The writing has been on the wall for a while and if you want a high quality of life like the boomers had, the best way to get it is to leave the U.S. but I’m glad the MAGA cult is unlikely to ever do that because they’re in a cult, double bonus for those that do leave, better quality of life and no MAGA cult members.
But to answer your question, everyone here knows I freaking hate cars but for $15k, I’d buy one. At that price, it’s a consumable item! BYD cars aren’t limited to China. I was in Mexico a few months ago and there were BYD dealerships everywhere. The same in parts of Asia outside of China but some governments there want to tariff cars too like Trump so they’re not as cheap.
Everyone will learn the hard way when trump’s Turdonomics turns up snake eyes. It’ll take a decade to fix Trump’s mess and I’m not going to waste my life living through that nonsense.
If wages and prices collapsed such that a car cost $15K, then tax rates will have to increase to pay interest on national debt.
People don’t understand globalization was/is not a zero-sum game. When Apple went global Apple’s customers got their iPhone made at ~500 a month, and a US Apple designer got $200k+. BOTH sides benefited. Using globalism’s Comparative Advantages to divide up a product’s procurement came up with a higher value product for the price. Everyone benefited.
Trump can’t think that hard and kind of does want us to go back to an agrarian economy. Even when he puts up his tariffs they are so over-the-top high numbers as to not even be serious fodder. And WTH could we at least have a slower transitioning tariff rate? “Liberation Day” will go down as utmost BS Day.
Asia produces physical stuff that people want.
America prints certificates, or simply creates bookkeeping entries.
It’s Comparative Advantage at work.
we make some very nice nuclear weapons, also lots of soybeans, corn and we’ve sold the entire world on drinking overpriced sugar water.
We have a diverse and powerful ability, should we ever notice it and put it to use once again.
And the Golden Arches. Unfortunately.
It’s not a question of reshoring supply chain or not, rather how you approach it.
Chinese approach: thoughtful and planned.
USA: shooting from the hip with no analysis or plan.
Start producing skilled tradespeople instead of useless bean counters, and maybe they will come.
we can walk and chew gum. We can create industries and create skilled tradespeople simultanesously.
we didn’t have a plan when we deindustrialized, except “lets make lots of money” – see bankers or pet shop boys for details..
A plan begins by taking an action, and measuring the response and redirecting the action to those aspects that succeed. A plan that cannot be flexible is bound to fail.
The 1st part of a plan is noticing there is a problem, bringing peoples attention to the problem and beginning to solve the problem by actual efforts, including talk, trade, negotiation, and understanding which action precedes which other action in order to amplify efforts and sustain the trajectory to its greatest impact in the shortest time.
Life is not a tv show, this wont be done in 20 minutes, nor will every effort succeed on the 1st try.
How about this: Think about the millions of able-bodied Americans sitting on their asses leeching off their fellow citizens. Free housing, free food, free internet, Obamaphone, free education, free whatever. There is no reason these people couldn’t do the same type of work as the Vietnamese or Chinese. Are they some sort of “privilege characters”?
Geez, what an eloquent red-baiting discussion. WT* is a Obamaphone?
A guide to Obama Phone providers in your state
Obama Phones are offered in 49 states, Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico. Find the plan that’s right for you.
If you’re on a federal government assistance program (and a lot of state programs) or if you survive on a limited income, you probably qualify for an Obama Phone.
They’re available in 49 states, Washington DC, and Puerto. The only state that doesn’t offer Obama Phones is Montana. (Truth is, the program is available in Montana but only for residents of Native American lands, and not the general public.)
https://www.obamaphone.com/states
Agree we need to eliminate lifetime welfare. This will get quite a few able bodied adults back to work.
“lifetime welfare”? What specific program are you talking about?
Have you heard about the welfare reform that was completed 30 years ago in 1996? The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act?
Read up; you won’t seem so ill-informed with your opinions
She’s talking about boomers on medicare and social security, that’s the only lifetime welfare I know that still exists.
well, that’ not fair, they paid into that system for decades. it’s not welfare, it’s them getting part of their money back. by the time i retire I will have paid 40 years into SS, and I doubt i will live long enough to get it back.
The 1964 civil rights act, reinvented black society. Destroying the concept of husband and father, replacing these roles with the euphemism now ubiquitously known as “Baby daddy”
This produces a life time of benefits as long as you can make enough babies.
Oh ok, it’s the black man’s fault “so many” non-black people are on welfare
Mish, I’m surprised and disappointed you let this racist propaganda BS stay on your site
The black man didn’t have anything to do with creating or passing the civil rights act of 1964, they were a target of the law. Look at the demise of the black middle class after it was passed.
I don’t think its racist to point out economic systems have been created to destroy the black family. Perhaps you need to understand ideas, rather than feelings. it may help you understand the world,
I think the bigot is probably in your mirror.
What’s about warfare? – Forever war.
Still waiting for those pesky Chinese to cave as you put it. How wrong you were. And are.
If you’re talking about the 60 million boomers on medicare and social security then yeah I agree. Eliminate those benefits and put these seniors into the factories. They don’t want immigrants here so they should pick up the slack and do those jobs.
It’s a win-win for everyone.
I think he means the 40 million able bodied that are collecting welfare. First lets get them working.
Provide links with your thesis please. I’d like to know who the 40m are that are getting welfare. And I though DOGE was cutting that anyway?
Here is my link for the data on the real leeches.
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/
They cost the taxpayer $128b per month and that’s just social security (and growing).
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/19/what-the-data-says-about-food-stamps-in-the-u-s/
Apparently roughly 100 million Americans receive some kind of assistance. That’s about 1/3 people!
Oh the horror! SNAP is costing $118m – we’re DOOMED!
So food assistance is welfare that needs to end? I suspect most of those people work for a living at a minimum wage job and need the food support to survive. But if those factory jobs are going to pay $30/hr then maybe food assistance won’t be needed anywhere. I hope you’re ready to pay $300 for plain sneakers and $100 for t-shirts.
The social security and medicare leeches are eating up $2+ trillion per year and contribute NOTHING to society. THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS TIM.
Congress funds more than 125 programs that subsidize private businesses costing at least $80 billion a year. That’s not counting the $780B in contracts by the federal govt. Add on local incentives like forgiven taxes low or no cost land leases etc and the pig trough is huge.
Nah. The real leeches are Federal, State and Local.
How many Americans are receiving free housing with free food? A very small percentage, and for specific legislated reasons.
You’re either very ill-informed or you are falsely baiting this conversation
I know of 535 folks in D.C. that are essentially getting free food and housing.
not to mention a real nice private subway, a great gym, barbershop, platinum level healthcare for life, and unlimited postage. Also unlimited insider trading assures you a life of wealth forever..
great, so stop working and move to DC to live the good life in subsidized housing, free gym and food.
yeah ,i didnt’ think so
I love you Anthony, you are quite like a fence post in your abilities to comprehend simple ideas.
Its good to know I’ve not understimated the mal-education of the common man.
Like a bird, I fear its all flown over your head.
That is actually a Reagan/Bush phone.
The lifeline phone program started in 1984 under Reagan to make sure low income people have access to a phone. In 2008 it was expanded to include cell phones. George GW Bush was president at the time.
Stupid MAGA.
the vitriol is amazing over an electronic device. why so angry batman?
I’m just really tired of the lies and misinformation. Lazy or stupid people just accept what some dunce says and don’t bother doing the simplest research, it just annoys me.
you likely have difficulty in sharing your ideas if you spend your effort denigrating those with opposing viewpoints with pointless labels they’ve probably heard a million times.
if you use logic, reasoning and facts, you at least sharpen your own arguments, even if you convince no one.
There is no lack of misinformation on the internet and in the media, it is often difficult to ascertain the truth when fact are omitted or bent to fit a narrative. This is common to all sides and all spaces in the digital communication realm.
“If you are sure of your beliefs, you probably haven’t spent enough time watching the news or being on the internet”..Ben Franklin 1774
As Mish’s post keeps repeating; it’s the supply chain stupid!
This $15000 Toyota is a prime example of the success of the Chinese supply chain.
China has spent two decades creating the world’s most robust supply chains in every single category of the United Nations Industrial Classifications, covering almost all traditional and emerging manufacturing sectors.
And they have been integrating their internal supply chains with other countries supply chains, particularly in Asia, in preparation for someone like Trump, who wants to try to isolate China.
Trump wants to isolate China by threatening the other countries in the world to stop working with China. In the meantime, China is working hard “with” these countries to integrate their supply chains and make themselves indispensable to the welfare of those other economies.
The carrot approach will win out. And Trump will ensure the US gets the stick in our own eye.
China has demographic problems, they built the supply chain at the behest of western investors and consumers, they have sky rocketing debt and will see employment problems worsen, 300MM Chinese have stepped into modernity, 1bn peasants, good luck and good riddance with that. Yes, its a complete mess to unwind this lunacy. I would not be averse to frog marching those behind the give away to China over the border, north or south, take your pick.
If China is going to self-implode then you have nothing to worry about and neither does Trump. Tariffs shouldn’t even be happening with China about to fold due to their issues as you state. So why are we here?
Who created CCP China as it now stands? Not a trick question. All driven by the dream of selling into a limitless market which has not happened and is not going to happen (IP theft, forced tech transfer, general fraud and theft, tariff protections, artificial cost of capital for labor arbitrage etc.), also pushed by the NatSec NeoCon crowd to drive a wedge between Russia and China, how’s that one working out?
if the supply chain implodes, and we don’t have an alternate. we all have a great deal to worry about. check your logic I think your circuit has a flaw, check with your programmers at the CCP, there is an upgrade available, but you may have to be offline for a few hours..
“In the meantime, China is working hard “with” these countries to integrate their supply chains and make themselves indispensable to the welfare of those other economies.”
LOL. Welfare? Communists? China made all companies partner with a Chinese manufacturer to sell their cars in China. It was the worst secret of all time that China was going to steal all their secrets.
So ten years ago, China had horrible cars but they have gotten a lot better. The quality of Chinese only cars in on par with all others, and this is what the CCCP does, they steal your technology and put you out of business by charging half as much.
If all you care about is price, then you should be in favor of the whole world leaving auto manufacturing to a communist country. China has the capacity to build all the cars in the world.
I am not sure how that benefits the auto producing nations like Japan and South Korea. If your country does not produce cars, then there is a short term benefit but in the long term, if China is the only country making cars and other essential items, then they have you by the gonads. They can literally pick out the leadership of whatever country they have a monopoly in and if they are defied, they can destroy that country’s economy. That is their end game, and it is shocking to me how many American cheerleaders China has.
“ I am not sure how that benefits the auto producing nations like Japan and South Korea.”
Lol! Maybe you missed it. Toyota is taking advantage of Chinese supply chains to produce and sell vehicles in China for 1/3 the price of what it would sell for in the US. Not only is this profitable for Toyota, but they are learning from the Chinese (or as you say, stealing secrets from the Chinese)
So China plays to the greed of American corporations with the end goal of taking over the world economy….smart.
Just shows the importance of having robust domestic supply chains. They make it easier and cheaper to build products. We need to do that too.
Yes. You finally figured it out. However, not just domestic supply chains; supply chains in general.
The free enterprise way of developing efficient supply chains is to let the market figure it out. Let companies determine what they are best at.
The Chinese way involved a long-term multi-decade plan to incentivize the development of the most robust supply chain in the world. This top down, government incentivized system had to be completely domestic because they could only control what happened in their own country.
certain elements of a supply chain require other elements to function. ie to build electronic gear, one must be able to build discrete electronic components like diodes, transistors, and intergrated circuits.
A supply chain that is unstable or nonscalable is a supply chain in name only.
Of course we would – but this admin is why we can’t have nice things. Trump the ultimate price gouger of the middle and lower economic class Americans – to fund his record $1trill to the military, give his rich mega-donors tax breaks, fund a sovereign wealth fund, etc. while American manufacturing is declining & Florida is pursuing relaxing child labor laws to bring the crops in.
We had a Hybrid. NEVER AGAIN. The Hybrid battery last 8 years with an 8-year Warranty. Replacement: $11,000 in a Car that costed us $18,000 with a year on it. NOPE, never again.
Maybe there’s enough juice left in the battery to charge your iPhone assembled in India.
I’ve never owned a hybrid so maybe this is a dumb question, but do you HAVE to replace it to drive the car? If you can still drive it as a pure ICE vehicle why would you (or anyone) bother to replace the battery on a 9 year old car? The ROI makes no sense unless you HAVE to have a working battery to use the car.
Gas tanks and engines are generally smaller on a hybrid. Your car would likely go a lot slower and less distance. But could you do it? Probably.
On a Prius the main battery pack starts the engine. If it goes completely dead while driving the car goes into a limp mode with very reduced speed. Once in limp mode when you shutoff the engine it will not restart until the battery pack has power to start it.
A Prius battery back (reman) is available on line for less than $1K it takes about 10 hours of labor to install it, less than $2K, I think you way over paid or bought the wrong car.
Trump may push the American people too far, it won’t end well for him.
Trump hasn’t pushed anybody anywhere. They’re still sitting on their asses complaining they won’t be able to buy their usual cheap Chinese shit.
Trump is already being called Marie Antoinette.
https://archive.is/W4xe1
Like I’ve been saying, Americans balked at wearing a mask and doing COVID tests that were handed out free but now they’re supposed to go without goods and services for the good of the rich. Good luck with that.
balked? at wearing masks? I still see dorks in their cars alone driving around with masks on.
Trump vs Toyota? Why US cars are a rare sight in Japan
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/3016157/trump-vs-toyota-why-us-cars-are-a-rare-sight-in-japan
We must do everything possible to get manufacturing back to US. Trump is on a roll. Despise China.
I see you are willing to pay double for everything.
Congrats on being brainwashed.
Comrade Shedlock the party thanks you again. for your support,
Not interested in a battery powered cars at any price
I am not either. Love my Toyota 4-Runner.
But many zoomers (and others) never or seldom leave the city. For them, it’s would be a great deal.
I think I would jump at one for 15000. Filling up with gas is a pain in the rear.
Yeah, spending 5 minutes at the gas station is SO difficult and EXHAUSTING
Soon enough (subject to tariffs) there will be batteries that charge in 110% of time to fill up. Then, I’m in.
any battery that can charge in a very small period of time, can discharge in a very small period of time making it effectively a bomb.
park that in your garage every night at your own risk.
Of course, taking 5 minutes to fill up with gas is no big deal.
But it’s even less of a deal to park your EV in your driveway or garage (same as your ICE) and fill it up every time even without those 5 minutes. Or never have to take it or leave it for several hours with a garage for an oil change, tighten/replace belts, check plugs, etc.
And an EV owner doesn’t have to pay for any of those garage repair charges. And can ‘fill up’ for a fraction of the costs compared to gasoline
Yeah we’re definitely going to lose engine mechanics if we go full on EV. Yet one more job category at risk. But the environmental impact is a big question with respect to mining and processing. Of course a lot of that in China’s problem since they got the minerals. With climate change I wonder what is hiding under the frozen tundra of Siberia? That would really flip the script to authoritarianism.
China will have a lot less air pollution if it sticks to EV conversion.
Mechanics will be doing brake jobs and changing tires I guess, until robots are able to do these jobs..
“Mechanics will be doing brake jobs and changing tires I guess, until robots are able to do these jobs..”
Hunter Engineering Co in St Louis has a tire changer that is very close to robotic. They demonstrate it to tire dealers using a 10 year old girl to change a tire and wheel assembly she can’t even lift off the ground. Next time you enter a dealership service area your cars wheel alignment may be checked without your knowledge. Hunter makes a system used in many dealerships to do just that. This tech has been available for years, I haven’t kept up with innovations since retiring in 2019. If interested see more at Hunter.com
have you ever seen a lithium fire in an enclosed space like a garage? so green, those flames, so green…
The price of a bbl of oil is down $15-$20 from a few months back. The price of gas in CA is the same, still over $5 for premium.
It’s a pain in the wallet. At least in Europe where we don’t pay FLA prices for gas.
It would be a great second car for me. Next week I will be driving from TN to Las Vegas, NV in two days, impossible in any EV made today.
Impossible?
There are dozens of Tesla superchargers between TN and Las Vegas. And in 20 minutes, you can charge enough to drive for 2 – 2.5 hours when you’d stop anyway for a break.
But yes, makes a GREAT second car. My family uses our Jeep to haul the boat, kayaks, and utility trailer. EV for everything else – including hiking in the mountains every other weekend.
Simply not true, it would take much longer and probably be more expensive. EV trip would turn it into a three or four day trip or more when you arrive at the charging to point to find the charger out of commission or already in use. It’s a 29 hour drive, if you have to stop every 2 hours for 20 minutes (more like 30 or 40 when you consider getting off interstate and back) just the charging time would add about 5 hours to the trip and that would be under perfect conditions. Doubling that time would be more realistic.
“Doubling that time would be more realistic.” Yeah, every EV owners spends 1 minute charging for every minute driving LOL. I’ve taken my EV on multi-state vacation trips multiple times. No difference in driving an ICE except it’s quieter and a lot cheaper.
The fact you’re driving to Las Vegas and back from TN (4000 miles roundtrip) says alot probably about your personal cost calculations. Federal mileage reimbursement rate is 70 cents/mile for average gas and wear and tear on a car for driving. That’s $2800 in costs to drive to Las Vegas and back. And that does not account for your own 60 hours driving. Get a flight (and some beers while you’re flying) and get there in 3 hours. Costs A LOT less than your plan.
Good luck on your trip (and your future opportunity cost calculations)
I meant doubling the 5 hours added to the trip for charging.
With the disdain for their customers the airlines have I will never fly again unless it is absolutely necessary. Besides I like to drive, it relaxes me.
Considering the cost, I’ll win enough playing poker so that it will be of no concern. But if EVs had the same range and recharge time as my hybrid I’d definitely drive one.
Oh yeah, I don’t consume alcohol either but I do like an NA Beer.
They should ride bicycles then Mish. The Bicycle catapulted China into the modern era.
Exactly. My 17 year old daughter would love to be able to buy a brand new car for 17K.
At 17, YOU should be buying her a car!
Right there is one thing that is wrong in today’s America.
Why? I bought my own first car just like my parents before me bought their own first cars.
People who earn their things tend to take far better care of them that people who were given those same things.