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Bank Earnings Start Off With a Thud, Expect Things Will Get Worse

Biggest Earnings Miss in a Decade

Big Misses Everywhere

What About the Inverse Cramer Idea?

Are Markets Really Prepared For Higher Rates?

Earnings Headed For a Fall 

Bloomberg reports Earnings Season Will Hang on Price-to-Recession

We can’t shake off the horrors of 2022 just yet; the season for announcing the earnings for the fourth quarter of last year is about to begin. As these are also full-year results, they tend to be the most tightly audited, and CEOs themselves are more likely to appear on earnings calls. This will be their opportunity to own up to the full extent of 2022’s damage and — more importantly — reveal what they’re bracing for this year.

Globally, economies are slowing down, affecting profits of S&P 500 companies and increasing recession risks. All of this has played out into unusually gloomy earnings sentiment as the announcements approach. This chart is from David Kostin, chief US equity strategist at Goldman Sachs, and shows downward revisions running at a rate which in recent years has presaged a recession.

But as bad as investors are bracing themselves for the fourth quarter, earnings for the year ahead may be much worse. Around half of the respondents Bloomberg surveyed expect results that will be posted from April to June to reflect the impact of a potential economic contraction.

Another issue is margins, which traditionally tended to be highly mean-reverting. With workers apparently in a stronger position since the pandemic, that should mean tighter margins for shareholders. However, the consensus expects margins to expand again and contribute positively to earnings growth during 2023. To strategists at Strategas Securities led by Ryan Grabinski, however, that sounds “overly optimistic”:

Cost pressures are likely to remain sticky and activity, as shown in the ISM surveys over the past few months, is likely to continue to slow. This is usually not an environment where margins would expand and is further evidence to us that EPS remain too high.

Price to Fantasy

Also consider Price-to-Fantasy Ratio: Self-Deception with Forward Operating Earnings

Many analysts analyze a stock’s price-to-earnings (P/E) ratio, or the P/E for the aggregate market, using forward earnings for the next quarter or next year, which are built on a foundation of recent past operating earnings.

So, what’s wrong with this approach?

These assumptions introduce a large bias into aggregate market earnings, hence, into aggregate market P/E ratios. In practice, companies choose to exclude far more negative extraordinary items than positive, which has led some analysts to whimsically describe operating earnings as “earnings before whatever went wrong.”

As a result, estimates of individual companies’ future reported earnings—when aggregated across the full market—will reliably overstate aggregate future market earnings and understate the aggregate market P/E ratio. Over the last 34 years, data provided by S&P show that aggregate S&P 500 reported earnings have been an average 5% lower than prior-year operating earnings, despite powerful growth in both reported and operating earnings over the same span. 

The same-year comparison is even larger: concurrent reported earnings are lower than operating earnings by 13%. This gap between operating earnings and reported earnings becomes more extreme in recessions.

It is easy to see why we occasionally refer to the P/F ratio as the Price/Fantasy ratio.

What About Rate Cuts?

The stock market has been rallying around the idea of rate cuts. 

If and when the cuts come it will be because the economy is so bad the Fed can’t take it anymore. 

What would that mean to earnings?

And on the inflation front, please consider “America First”, Biden and Trump Both Guilty of Sponsoring Inflation

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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38 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
One big reason Goldman et al earnings are down because IPOs dried up. Hundreds of IPOs were done in 2021 at historically low interest rates. Demand pulled forward again (distortion by low rates). They won’t see that level of deal making for a decade, but it should improve year-to-year going forward imo. (i.e. bottom is in)
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Late Summer, early fall 2008 I distinctly recall saying on another forum what I’m about to say.
“Despite the stock market and bank earnings, my business is through the roof and I’m not convinced this is going to get much worse.”
I was wrong in 2008 because no one saw the sub-prime crash coming, no one knew just how overvalued CDO’s were – Just read up on how difficult it was for Kyle Bass to learn, banks were extremely secretive about them. (We now know why)
This is not 2008.
.
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
I hope you’re right. I was in the same position in 2008 – and sure was wrong.
Now, my business is very good and customers seem to be booked and wanting more than we can produce. Maybe it will continue. Maybe not.
I sure don’t know!
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
“This is not 2008.”
True. Likely worse. Much more leverage in the system that needs to be unwound.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Goldman, GS closed Jan 6/9 gap and popped up, on huge vol.
JPM bs all day, inside bar. BAC, same bs.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Morgan Stanley, MS BB : Aug 13/19 2021, 104.77/98.71. MS earning and revenue both positive surprise. MS gap higher breached the BB, but closed below . Jan 17 2023 high : 99.10
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Jan 17 (Reuters) – Microsoft Corp plans to cut about 5% of its workforce, or about 11,000 roles, U.K broadcaster Sky News reported on Tuesday, citing sources.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Now they are called “roles?”
The expansion of euphemisms never ceases.
My favorite is still “layoff” replacing fired.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
There are typically 6 seasonal inflection points. The first one occurs in c. the 3rd week in Jan (down).
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
expected … -8.7.
outside of Spring 2020 lowest since March 2009.
“Business activity contracted sharply
in New York State, according to firms
responding to the January 2023 Empire
State Manufacturing Survey. The
headline general business conditions
index fell twenty-two points to -32.9.
New orders and shipments declined
substantially.”
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
That’ll be a few more down ticks in the Economic Barometer.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
“But as bad as investors are bracing themselves for the fourth quarter, earnings for the year ahead may be much worse.”
Book it.
… and good luck to those thinking hiring will hold up or minimal job losses.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
These are big investment banks, but how about your local commercial bank or credit union.
All offering only short term deposits barely above the central bank interest rate.
Seems they’re all betting on the pivot.
Probably something to do with credibility. /s
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
This is all par for the course going into a recession. Companies pull back on investment banking services because they see customers pulling back, banks consequently start to cut staff and write-off all the underwater assets that they can. It’s is nothing new and anyone who has gone through this cycle before recognizes it. They also recognize that it is not the end of the world and eventually when the process completes business takes off again. They also recognize that when the recession hits we experience a wave of “civilization has collapsed, barbarianism is the future and buy my book to learn how to survive” pundits and commentators who all have surprisingly creative ways of extracting money from those who are afraid. I myself are looking into it but you got to be really creative. Bitcoin has already been played. Climate collapse is so yesterday now. Renewables are mainstream so everyone and their mother has already sucked it dry. What is left that hasn’t been exploited (pundit speaking) to the hilt? I believe the next frontier will be alien intervention and although it has been exploited in the past it has not by a far amount reached it full potential. With the governments and the military now showing “proof” and pushing for it (even if ridiculous when you look at it) I can see that we have the conditions developing to truly make a lot of cash journalizing and punditing to a population looking for new things to talk about at parties, bars and meetings.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug, you are not telling me that business is cyclic, are you?
Tell me it isn’t so.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
I am afraid so Lisa. Although it is hard to believe, the economy is cyclical. In the meantime invest in alien technology.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
When the 10Y will breach the 6M and normalize the banks will increase their assets, making more money, using what they got in the Fed.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago

Oil and gas earnings will be solid. Expect things to get better.

Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
You sound like Cato the Elder.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
wti < $50 at some point in 2023.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett

Interesting opinion. Care to explain why? And what your investment strategy is for 2023?

My own prediction for WTI oil prices in 2023 is a range from $70 to $120, and an average between $90 and $105.
At todays WTI price of $80, the oil companies I own will generate 20% free cash flow. Adjust by 5% for each $10 change in WTI price.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Demand will drop. Supply won’t drop (enough) to match.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
It has been documented that only one cubic mile of oil is pumped out every year. My calculations at 90 million barrels a day is 1.253 cubic miles a year. Curiously this is 25 times the annual flow of the Virgin River in Utah, but only about two thirds the annual draw off the Sacramento river for irrigation. It is one seventh the total flow of the Sacramento River. Mono Lake is 0.7125 cubic miles. Lake Tahoe is 35 cubic miles in volume. This seems like a lot in a local area, but there are nearly a million oil wells in the United states alone and world wide 54,000 a year are being drilled. There are more than 25,000 oil and gas fields of all sizes in the world. However, 94% of known oil
is concentrated in fewer than 1500 giant and major fields. Many hands make for light work.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
agree papa. especially with china finally coming out of lock ups. i’m really bullish on trading this set up now . i’m loving rising rates finally making sense, and tight labor. i could live without the inflationary deterioration of all our money.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I am bullish on oil in the long run (this decade). Continued growth in demand, combined with tight supplies, should keep upward pressure on prices. And there is very little spare capacity available to tap into.
Oil companies are still not spending much on capex for many reasons:
  • The fear of reduced demand in the next decade. Many oil companies already have 20-80 years of proven reserves. No need to spend to find more oil which may ended up being stranded. The same goes for building much energy infrastructure, such as pipelines and refineries.
  • Volatility in price. Oil companies prefer steady prices because it makes planning easier. When prices jump from $70 to $120 and back to $70, it makes it very difficult to plan.
  • Fears of lawsuits in the future (like cigarette companies).
  • Demands from shareholders for returns.
Without more capex spending, supplies will continue to tighten while demand continues to grow.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Absolutely agree on spare capacity and recent history of capex.
Future expectations of capex – few $$.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Another good day for oil companies. Of course any day above $80 WTI is a good day. Raking in the cash flow. Paying down or paying off debt. Amazingly strong balance sheets. Buying back shares. More money for dividends as each day passes. I’m making a crap load of money on dividends alone. Never mind capital appreciation. And those dividends will continue to go up, even if oil prices stay here. Of course, I expect oil prices to keep going up through this decade.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
I am looking forward to Lacy Hunt’s Fourth Quarter 2022 Quarterly Review and Outlook.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
+1
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Banks used to make money by loaning at a higher rate than they pay depositors, but that’s no longer the case. They can make a lot of money by simply depositing money at the FED instead of making risky loans. They can currently get about 4.4% guaranteed.
They’ll suffer some loan losses this year, but overall they’ll be just fine.
RunnerDan
RunnerDan
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Yes, banks used to make money by judiciously applying lending practices based on the basic principle that money should be lent to only people who can pay it back. Banks lent money as if it were their own. Those days are long gone.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  RunnerDan
The welfare of the banks is codependent on the welfare of the nonbanks. It is a symbiotic relationship. The NBFIs are the DFI’s customers. An inverted yield curve, in the borrow short to lend longer, impacts the NBFIs more so than the DFIs.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The fed is no losing money paying on these deposits and is going to need a cash infusion from the treasury. Not sure how that is going to play out.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
The FED is QTing, which will more than cover any shortfalls. And even if they ran out of money, the could just make some more.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
30 members Dow weight : UnitedHealth : 9.4%, Goldman : 7.18%, HD : 6.3%…JPM ; 2.7%. // The Dow is tired need some rest. GS closed Jan 6/9 gap, on high vol at 12:38PM.. The banks might use their excess reserves and RRP to make money, to in crease assets.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
The buyer’s remorse recession is in full swing.
People are out of cash and loans will be abysmal this year. As will be investment banking.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
The regional banks are not investment banks.

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