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Worst of Both Worlds, Stagflation Right Now, But What’s Ahead?

CPI and PCE data from BLS chart by Mish

Worst of Both Worlds

Here’s the Bloomberg take: US in ‘Worst of Both Worlds’ With High Inflation, GDP Slowdown

The US economy was slowing even before the brunt of any credit crunch stemming from the recent bank failures, while inflation accelerated, highlighting the enormous challenge faced by the Federal Reserve.

Inflation Take

  • Demographics Part 1: The replacement of retirees and full-timers going to part timers with those less skilled is inflationary.
  • Demographics Part 2: Expect huge increases in need for Medicare commodities and services.
  • When the Fed cut rates to zero, existing homeowners could and most did refinance at or below 3 percent. This continually puts extra money in their pocket every month at the expense of Zoomers now looking for their first home.
  • The SS COLA and 2023 tax adjustment support consumption at least for a while.
  • Wage pressures due to minimum wage hikes perpetually raise worker demands for wage growth. And workers can get what they seek because of demographics.
  • Biden’s energy plan is hugely inflationary.
  • Biden’s push for more union jobs is inflationary.
  • De-globalization, barely started is inflationary.
  • Going from just-in-time manufacturing to better-be-safe supply chain management is inflationary. 

Deflation Take

  • Money supply is very deflationary.
  • Rising interest rates are deflationary. 
  • Debt is very inflationary when you struggle to pay it back while asset prices fall.
  • Unrealized bank losses curtail lending and that is deflationary. 
  • A stock market crash would be very deflationary. 
  • Rising unemployment would be deflationary.
  • Demographics Part 3: Money is conserved in retirement especially if the stock market does not keep growing. 
  • Demographics Part 4: SS does not make up for loss of job income. 
  • There’s even a deflation aspect to what Biden’s attempting to do with energy. What happens if people refuse to buy EVs? 

Those are the forces in play. 

Which View Has More Force?

There’s nothing more deflationary than not having a paycheck….6 to 12 months out we’re not going to need labor to fill orders we don’t have.

M2 Money Supply Declines 8 Straight Months, ODL Down 12 Straight Months

Money supply is declining at the sharpest pace since the Great Depression.

For discussion, please see M2 Money Supply Declines 8 Straight Months, ODL Down 12 Straight Months

What Happens to Unemployment?

For the near to mid term, the severity of a credit crunch will depend the severity of rising unemployment and on bank losses that impact willingness of banks to lend. 

I am not as concerned about rising unemployment than most of the economic bears. 

Millions of retiring boomers will prevent a massive rise in the unemployment rate. 

Expect the Opposite of the Covid Recession

Demographically Sobering Thoughts on US Employment in the Next Five Years

For discussion please see Demographically Sobering Thoughts on US Employment in the Next Five Years

Assuming I am correct, and Adam hopes I am, the Fed has a huge problem with sticky inflation pressures. 

In contrast to other recessions, the Fed will not be able to step on the gas like before. 

The winds of de-globalization and decarbonization are blowing strongly in the Fed’s face.

Now put war into the mix. 

Importantly, millions of people refinanced their mortgages at or below 3.0 percent. As a result, they have extra money to spend perpetually, every month going forward. 

The Fed cannot undo this inflationary pressure. Moreover, rate hikes have completely different impacts on retirees who welcome higher interest rates on bonds and on those who refinanced at great rates than those about to lose their job.

I do not recall anyone mentioning these important points.

What to Expect

If the Fed gets everything perfect (it won’t) the best we can hope for is a long period of very slow growth or an economy that floats in an out of recession or near-recession for a long time.

If the Fed has overshot already, we are headed for a round of severe deflation given another hike is nearly certain. If the Fed undershoots or reverses prematurely, inflation can easily come roaring back.

The stock market is not remotely priced for either scenario or for a ping-pong from one to another. Nor is it priced for higher-for-longer. Instead, the market is priced for something beyond Goldilocks perfection. 

Both Sides Now

I’ve looked at debt from both sides now, from win and lose but still somehow it’s debt’s illusion I recall, I really don’t know debt at all. 

When credit marked to market is rising, it’s inflation. When falling, it’s deflation.

So good luck no matter whether you expect deflation or inflation. Either way, the alleged worst of both worlds is about to get worse for most people.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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52 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Food price pressures due to inflation perpetually raise worker
demands for wage growth.
And, for now, workers can get what they seek because of
demographics.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Expect inflation to continue in earnest as the world dedollarizes.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Jamie Diamond is in FRC. Moneyham too. Option #1 : FDIC will save Jamie and Moneyham without printing a dime. Option #2 : FRC will never go bk. It will stay zombie as long as it takes, like DB.
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Stagflation is the goal. The only way out of the debt is to run inflation higher than rates and monetize the debt, That has always been the plan.
The Fed and their owners will be fine and that is all that really matters.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
What? You make it sound like inflation is some kind of tax.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
BINGO. WINNER OF GAME. for honors students, the one and only mandate the FED RES of NY has is to keep their shareholder privately owned “bankers” in high cotton. remember kids, JPM and C own the NYFED. the men who sit in C suite control the money supply. we all, sailed together on LI sound for many decades now. they view the country as theirs. not yours. the middlebrows usually can’t handle the truth.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
The middle class is the most enslaved as they are too invested in the system.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
TRUE. the bottom of ladder knows they are getting screwed. the middlebrows too invested in the game and too dumb to see it. until maybe old age.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
Yep – this has been slowly chipping away at everyone’s wealth for a while now.
There currently is no change to the tune.
fsabbagh
fsabbagh
3 years ago
With all this craziness, what happens with the USD$ ??? Crashes?
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  fsabbagh
Don’t worry, they’re already working on that digital currency. How’s your social credit score?
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
3 years ago
There is an quick and easy but unorthodox solution to this mess in one word: DEFAULT. The politicians with a functioning brain know that there is a mega disaster looming with everything listed above and far more. What better and easier way to bring it all down and rebuild than to default on treasury bonds.
And I said quick and easy not pleasant, especially for the rich and those will millions or billions in bonds.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Which is why you shouldn’t rely on Social Security. Better to assume it won’t be there.
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
It will always be there, As long as there is work, there will always be someone paying in. The question is … how much gets paid in.
Jonnyboy
Jonnyboy
3 years ago
Reply to  jivefive98
Question is how much gets paid out to those who saved on the side. I’m assuming… not much 😐
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Jonnyboy
It will pay out in full.
The *real* question is what’s it going to be worth given the COLA increase is 2-3% vs real inflation of 5+%.
A Dose of Reality 5
A Dose of Reality 5
3 years ago
Record profits due to large price increases for inelastic and semi elastic goods being passed on to the fading but still healthy enough consumer. Good for short to medium term stock price propping up. What happens when that support is pulled by the tired consumer as they slow spending.
As lack of easy money dries up other sectors of the economy slow – hiring will slow. Some will lose job. Discretionary spending goes down. Cycle repeats.
Fly in ointment is rising interest costs to the government and the share of entitlement payments becoming all consuming.
To me the long term rate where it sits now makes no sense. It should be much higher for the risk that I would factor in especially if student debt is canceled and other large yet to be defined compemsative payments are authorized in the future.
Referring to the 30 year bond as a proxy for that rate of course.
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
Federal, state and local governments and most businesses are all drowning in debt, and everyone except Biden wants rates back at zero. Federal debt service alone for Fiscal year 24 (starts 10/1/23 ) will be $477 billion. To be honest, I thought it would be a lot more. They cant let interest rates stay above zero for very long anymore — too much debt. Once Biden is re-elected, he’s gonna have his henchmen drop the rates back to zero and let inflation rip …
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  jivefive98
Biden re-elected? Does he even know he’s president now?
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Doesnt matter. The independents will never vote for him again. My Repub sister-in-law became an independent.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Don’t matter. A fence post could beat trump.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
The fence post won last time. No reason anything would change at the next election.
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
As a child of the 1970s, and how things played out the last two years, inflation is caused by energy prices. Prudhoe Bay + North Sea + Russia = low inflation for 30 years. In 2022, oil and natgas leaped, esp in Europe, with the start of the war (expected artificial shortages.) Oil and natgas touches everything, just like oil did in the 1970s. Sometimes you get weird “side effects” like rent increases (due to prop taxes going up to pay state/local govt retiree benefits, the surge of southern renters and hedge funds taking RE off market with free money) or avian flu affecting eggs, which are in every recipe. And Ive read Mish’s logic about what inflation is and what it isnt (money supply) for 15 years. But I keep coming back to energy. That more than anything will determine our pricing future.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  jivefive98
I remember those odd/even tag numbers for getting gas. Was only 13, but I would help my buddy at his dad’s gas station get through his chores so we could do important 13 year old things. Plus, I was just reading a sloppy account of it in a mediocre history book, Modern Times. Our economic situation then was even worse than our fashion sense. Leisure suits! Say no more.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
i sold the cheapest soda and beer on gas lines in NY during those arab oil boycott years. best mark ups i ever experienced. back in those days, cops bought beer from us enterprising teens.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Oh yes, back when they would hire humans for cops.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Furthermore – polyester leisure suits, with vests.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
These days only Hillary keeping this great style alive.
She survived Leisure Suit Larry.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  jivefive98

Some people prefer the “devil theory” of
inflation: It’s all “Peak Oil’s fault”, ”Peak Debt’s fault”, or the
result of the “Stockpiling of Strategic Raw Materials/Industrial Metals” &
Soaring Agriculture Produce. These approaches ignore the fact that the evidence
of inflation is represented by “actual” prices in the marketplace;
The “administered” prices (oligopoly, monopsony, and monopoly
elements) would not be the “asked” prices, were they not “validated”
by M*Vt (money Xs velocity), i.e., “validated” by the world’s Central Banks;
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
Again, in English?
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
What’s ahead?
1) Rising debt level across the board with at least $2T in new Federal debt this FY and structural deficits of at least $1.5T annually
2) Rising cost to finance our national debt to the tune of ~$850B this FY
3) Rising cost of crime, social & political division
4) Rising cost of food, housing & inflation, in general
5) Rising cost of energy, specifically electricity
6) Rising cost of healthcare & more importantly Medicare
7) Rising cost of social security, especially in about 3-5 years
8) Rising cost of geopolitical issues like the new axis of evil: China-Russia-Iran
9) Rising economic / social / ethical uncertainty across the board especially as AI & robotics start to affect employment in about 5-7 years
10) Rising risk of a systemic collapse in about 8 years
That’s what lies ahead. None of it is good.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Diverting resources into useless dead end channels such as Diversity, Inclusion and Equity (DIE).
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Nothing about First Republic?
Is it just a big yawn?
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
I am on the road but actually have written about FR already. Scheduled for later
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
RRP rate is higher than CD rates to fight inflation, to suck liquidity. RRP is up to $2.33T. The First Republic bank might go bk, but don’t worry, depositors will get their money. The FDIC might use your money to pay the defunct FRC depositors.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
The FDIC might use your money to pay back the big banks that tried to prop up First Republic.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker

Am sure the big banks have tried to withdraw their deposits by now.

Counter
Counter
3 years ago
The market is on fire, money supply is dropping fast but there is still a lot out there from all the pumping
Mjs357
Mjs357
3 years ago
Reply to  Counter
Foreign money
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Mjs357
And domestic.
Everyone still rich – most people’s wealth in their houses and they are worth much more these days.
Others made a lot from sky high equity markets.
Also others paying less for monthly mortgage payments due to re-mortgaging.
Lots of money sloshing around.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Who the f knows what s ahead mr Mish !? The future has become entirely unpredictable in recent years , with potential crazy plandemics of course, undeniable climate change, your hegemonic empire of endless wars looking for confrontation with a n° 1 nuclear power and more recently with China of all places. So we actually don t know a f about the future , what we DO know about the PAST though, with conclusive hindsight, is that interest rates should NEVER have dropped below a healthy, historically low 4 %, leading to insane excesses in a superfluous FED created land of fkn Oz , interrupting healthy economic cycles for the benefit of the privileged , eventually leading to the fn demise of your nation and your fn interest lowering vasals with you of course …..
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
As a theoretical issue, interest rates should represent the opportunity cost of borrowing money. That is, a rational lender would require compensation for
a) inflation expected during the term of the debt,
b) the real rate of interest, which arguably is the real growth in GDP, and
c) risk. Since, in theory, there is no default ‘risk’ in US Treasury issues, we can eliminate C.
With current inflation of 4%, and GNP growth around 1%, a reasonable lender should be happy with 5% on 1-year T bonds. It is negative real rates that caused this cluster fudge (and associated monetary and fiscal policies). The faux debt is still sloshing around, multiplied many times and transferred globally. My gut says it needs to disappear, which means massive changes in the pricing of assets, and goods and services generally. Meanwhile, savvy Wall Street investors think the Fed will cave and return to subsidizing debt, thereby making them richer, and the poor even poorer.
Personally, I am in favor of publicly neutering those responsible–a guarantee it won’t happen again.
At the same time, Mish’s likely right with his prediction of low growth rates into the foreseeable future–I’d add reduction in living standard, supply shortages etc. However, I believe we are in an era of true uncertainty, which will likely mean high levels of instability. Your nuke confrontation now has an increasing probability–at which point, all bets are off.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Beans and rice.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Singing along to… “I’ve looked at debt from both sides now, from win and lose but still
somehow it’s debt’s illusion I recall, I really don’t know debt at all.”
Can the US Government live within its means without drastically increasing taxes, or driving deficits higher? A resounding NO!
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
The US government can easily live within its means by introducing a national sales tax of 5%, and cutting military spending by half.
Just joking. That be the lastest option.
Bbbbbbb
Bbbbbbb
3 years ago
Is price gouging and monopoly pricing for record profits inflationary?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Stagflation sounds right to me. Slow growth. Inflation in areas of demand: food, energy, shelter, labor.
Deflation in areas of low demand (discretionary).
Invest accordingly. I remain heavily invested in oil and gas stocks as I expect growing demand in the face of constrained supply resulting from reduced capex spending over the last decade.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Posted this as a reply to your investment question in the Inflation article (2 articles ago) but not sure you’ve gone back to see it since your post is a couple days old.
Just saw an interesting article
No
idea if this company is public or not. But if the idea really does work
as described here, I would imagine the technology could be worth
something.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Another promising technology to reduce emissions. Only time will tell if it works out as these promising ideas rarely pan out. Not publicly listed as yet. Much appreciated!
QTPie
QTPie
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
With the 10-year yield at under 3.5%, the market is totally convinced stagflation is not even a remote possibility.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
Meaning what?
What is YOUR prediction going forward and what is YOUR investment strategy?
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Rates-of-change in our “means-of-payment” money supply:
Parse; dt; R-gDp; Inflation
01/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.04 ,,,,, 0.50
02/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.02 ,,,,, 0.43
03/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.03 ,,,,, 0.35
04/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.04 ,,,,, 0.34
05/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.01 ,,,,, 0.30
06/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.03 ,,,,, 0.23
07/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.04 ,,,,, 0.21
08/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.05 ,,,,, 0.21
09/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.05 ,,,,, 0.22
10/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.08 ,,,,, 0.20
11/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.09 ,,,,, 0.20
12/1/2023 ,,,,, 0.09 ,,,,, 0.17
There’s little chance of a recession unless velocity falls or money growth falls. And Vt is still rising. Whereas inflation could get down to acceptable levels by the 4th qtr.

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