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Russia Recognizes the Independence of Two Breakaway Regions in the Ukraine

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136 comments on Russia Recognizes the Independence of Two Breakaway Regions in the Ukraine

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Breakaway Regions Donetsk and Luhansk via WSJ

The Wall Street Journal reports Putin Says Russia to Recognize Independence of Breakaway Regions in Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he would recognize the independence of two Russian-led breakaway regions of Ukraine, a move that threatened to scuttle negotiations with the West over the future security of Eastern Europe and that could be used to justify an incursion into the territories.

“The situation in Donbas is becoming critical,” Mr. Putin said in a live televised address before launching into a lengthy examination of the relationship between the two countries and the Donbas region, where the two breakaway regions are located. “Ukraine is not just a neighbor. It is an inherent part of our own history, culture and spiritual space,” he said.

Mr. Putin said the Russian government will draft and sign the documents recognizing the independence of the two breakaway states in the near future, and said Russia would sign mutual assistance treaties with them.

Graham Wants US to Destroy the Ruble and Crush the Russian Oil and Gas Sector

“His decision should immediately be met with forceful sanctions to destroy the ruble and crush the Russian oil and gas sector.” says Graham

Graham need to think what destroying the Russian oil and gas sector would do to European countries dependent on Russian oil and gas. 

Minsk Agreement 

Wikipedia has a lengthy discussion on the Minsk Agreement. Minsk I and Minsk II. 

Let’s skip to the conclusion

  • In December 2021, Chief of General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said that “Kiev is not fulfilling the Minsk Agreements. The Ukrainian armed forces are touting that they have started to employ US-supplied Javelin anti-tank missile systems in Donbass and are also using Turkish reconnaissance/strike drones. As a result, the already tense situation in the east of that country is further deteriorating.”
  • In January 2022, Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said that “The fulfillment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s destruction. When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel — and the German and the French watched — it was already clear for all rational people that it’s impossible to implement those documents.“
  • In February 2022, Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said “the most possible solution (to the current situation) could be the Minsk agreement to be fulfilled or that there would be significant progress in its implementation.”

Bullet point 2 supports Putin’s claim Ukraine did not honor the agreement. 

Graham claims Putin’s moves are in violation of Minsk. 

Both claims appear to be true, but who started it? 

Ukraine did not want to give autonomy to Donetsk and Luhansk as per Minsk II. 

Special Status for Donetsk and Luhansk

  • Freedom from punishment, harassment, and discrimination of persons connected with the events that took place in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
  • Right of language self-determination
  • Participation of local self-government in the appointment of the heads of prosecutors’ offices and courts in the particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
  • The possibility for central executive bodies to conclude agreements with relevant local authorities on economic, social, and cultural development of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
  • The state will provide support for the socio-economic development of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
  • Assistance from central executive bodies for cross-border cooperation by particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts with regions of the Russian Federation
  • The freedom to create people’s militia units by decision of local councils to maintain public order in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
  • The powers of local council deputies and officials, elected in early elections, appointed by the Verkhovna Rada according to this law, cannot be prematurely terminated

Minsk Signatories 

  • Separatist’s leaders Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitsky
  • Swiss diplomat and OSCE representative Heidi Tagliavini
  • Former president of Ukraine and Ukrainian representative Leonid Kuchma
  • Russian Ambassador to Ukraine and Russian representative Mikhail Zurabov

Point Counterpoint

  • On 27 December 2018, Ukrainian news agency UNIAN reported that not a single provision of the Minsk deal had been fully implemented.
  • In October 2021, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that “if the Americans are genuinely prepared to support the implementation of the Minsk Agreements, this issue can be settled very quickly.“
  • In January 2022, Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said that “The fulfillment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s destruction. When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel — and the German and the French watched — it was already clear for all rational people that it’s impossible to implement those documents.”

Russia was all in favor of Minsk II. 

Challenge

If Germany Won’t Stand Up, Why Should We?

One Way to Settle This

How about an honest vote? 

If the people living in Donetsk and Luhansk do not want to be part of Ukraine, then why should they be part of Ukraine?

In Brexit, the UK essentially seceded from the EU. 

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

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Mike Shedlock

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136 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
Mish?  Do you know that “The Ukraine” is a slur toward Ukraine?  Certainly you know that.
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Esclaro
Esclaro
4 years ago
For the first time in the history of this country, there are millions and millions of traitors willing to support an enemy of the US. The members of the Trump Death Cult would welcome a Russian invasion of the US and cheer for their leader, Putin. What can be done about this? The US must be divided now! Wall off the Red States and hand them over to Russia, then see how they like it!!!
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RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Your comedy is divine.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Oh OK. The Trump Death cult members are the ones hoping the US becomes communist. Not the socialists on the left.
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FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
maybe  you ought to take a closer look at ‘the history of your country’ or at least its more recent history with impressive heroics …and warcrimes in particular… LYING CHEATING CONNIVING DOUBLECROSSING has become your country’s Trademark…..
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RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Senator Grahm: “When it comes to thugs like Putin disrupting world order and destroying democracies – enough is enough.”
Trudeau is playing dictator right next door to us. He is one of Klaus Schwab’s “young leaders.”
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
“Senator Grahm: “When it comes to thugs like Putin disrupting world order and destroying democracies – enough is enough.”
Pot. Kettle….
Not sure exactly what the Founding Fathers that Russians like to pretend to respect, said on the matter.
But the American ones specifically said No Entangling Alliances. And they did so specifically to prevent backmarkers like Graham from wasting Americans’ lives and treasure in places halfway around the world.
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RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
“But the American ones specifically said No Entangling Alliances.”
But the government set out from the beginning to become an empire. Manifest Destiny.
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
“But the government set out from the beginning to become an empire. Manifest Destiny.”
Which is why the 2nd, along with the advice of A Revolution a Generation, is still so singularly important to remember and cherish.
Politicians and their leeching hangers-on; in every country, throughout all time, are always attempting to do nothing other than steal and subordinate as much and many as they can. IOW, building as much of an empire as they can. That’s universal. Only idiots fall for the trivially obvious sham that there exists such a thing as politicians with any other motive.
It is therefore the responsibility of enlightened individuals, to maintain militias and mujahideens capable of restraining their political ad leeching classes. As well as to do whatever they can; from voting to protesting to civil disobedience, but NEVER, EVER to cave in; to prevent it coming down to a hot conflict, if one can be avoided. But if one can’t…..
Which resolves to it hence being the responsibility of the political and leeching classes, to do their best to ensure people aren’t enlightened, since their lives and privilege are completely dependent on it. As well as to ensure that those, who despite the state’s best effort to the contrary, manage to be somewhat enlightened, are in possession of as little wealth, hence power, as possible. Which explains contemporary America.
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Yooper
Yooper
4 years ago
This is interesting. Anyone see the issue with water in the region?
It would appear the Ukraine shut off water access 7 yrs ago, and the former “bread basket” is drying up. The river there is like the Mississippi to the US for transport, irrigation, and arable water. The Russians have been subsidizing the area since the economy there imploded as the water dried up.
So, this “recognition” move would gain back the water, offer navigable waterways to the Baltic through the Sea of Azov, reduce the economic strain, etc…
“There is a canal from the Dnieper River — in central Ukraine
— to the Crimea. The Ukraine government cut off the canal seven years
ago. Crimea is semi-arid. Much of the industrial capacity depended on
the canal for feedstock water. The article last year indicated:

Water isn’t the only struggle, but it’s been the toughest to resolve, especially since winning the return of Crimea remains a priority for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy. Last month, the Simferopol reservoir was 7% full. Without water from the Dnieper River, Crimea’s arable land has shrunk, from 130,000 hectares in 2013 — already a fraction of Soviet-era levels — to 14,000 in 2017. Thirsty crops have shriveled.

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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Agriculture in the Crimea is almost completely dependent on irrigation and the only source of water is the famous canal that they can’t use anymore. They run a pipe over the Kerch Strait bridge but the quantites are limited. Also hurts tourism because water is very rationed. 
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
offer navigable waterways to the Baltic through the Sea of Azov
Don’t you mean the Black Sea?
You’re making the same mistake as Liz Truss did.
But the water is a good point.
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Yooper
Yooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Yes, apologies. I was trying to shorten up their article. The Dnieper River does flow directly to the Black Sea 🙂
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Access to Dnieper water would entail control of the region from Mariopol to Kherson.
If that were the ambition, they may as well go to Odessa, getting back all most or Novorussiya.
Then they may as well take Kharkiv and the entire left bank of the Dnieper.
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Yooper
Yooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Really good point. That way they can mitigate future threats to the river, too.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago

How about an honest vote?
If the people living in Donetsk and Luhansk do not want to be part of Ukraine, then why should they be part of Ukraine?

They had a referendum in 2014 and voted for independence.
Russia never recognized the vote until now, b/c they would rather have seen a Ukrainian resolution.
For all those shocked at any change in the ‘sacrosanct eternal’ international borders, there are about 83 acknowledged border conflicts globally.
Look up Kosovo (2008), a rearrangement of the map of Eastern Europe by the US/NATO.
How about South Sudan (2011) or East Timor (1999).
What about Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem? The West Bank? Golan Heights?
Why not Catalonian secession?
How about Ukraine, created by the Soviets upon winning WW2, and updated 1954?
How about American secession from Britain?
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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Here in France we have problems with borders of regions, because they were built in a technocratic way, ignoring history. For example most people in Brittany claim some parts of a neighboring region. But no war in sight.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Seems the US is desperate to restart the cold war. State Department, CIA and DoD need to justify their budgets.
This reminds me of our stance in Syria. We have to keep troops there to protect the Kurds. Right. The administration cares deeply about the Kurds. We couldn’t care less about the people of Ukraine either. Our stance is just going to make their lives worse. Not make them better. Ukraine depends on Russian gas flowing through it into Europe. Everyone else, except maybe Britain, wants us to butt out and let Ukraine and Russia solve the mess. But, we have to stir things up.
And sanctions won’t have any effect on Russians oil and gas industry. They don’t settle in Rubles. They’ll just export more to China and less to Europe. The Europeans will be the ones facing absurdly high energy prices. We clearly don’t care about Europeans either.
At some point Germany will figure out it makes more sense to ally with Russia instead of the US. Once that happens, NATO will no longer be needed and the US will have almost no influence over Eurasia.
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Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“Everyone else, except maybe Britain, wants us to butt out and let Ukraine and Russia solve the mess.”
If that was the view it’s changing, now that Russia have sent troops into Donetsk & Luhansk it’s the thin end of the wedge for democracy.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
Who’s changed their views? Is it Germany because they’ve delayed NS2? Something they’ve done in the past prior to what’s happening now in Ukraine.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The administration cares deeply about the Kurds. We couldn’t care less about the people of Ukraine either.
Nor the Uyghurs and their ETIM (Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement )
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“Seems the US is desperate to restart the cold war.”
The US and Russia both.
And for the same reason: They are now both failed has-been states. Long since relegated to the dustbin in every venue other than Military. Hence, in a desperate bid to keep up pretense of continued relevance, they both do everything they can, to try militarizing everything and everywhere.
Sad as that recognition is, it will be a good day indeed when the ChiComs casually blow by both of them militarily as well. Leaving them as irrelevant in that arena, as they already are in every other one.
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FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Russia has now a much healthier economy than the US; hardly any debt and its people don’t live debt inflated dreams like the US and other debtbloated westerners do ….Russians know how to deal with hardship…..Spoilt Westerners will simply go bersirk and eat each other when the SHTF !
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
“Russia has now a much healthier economy than the US”
And than Venezuela as well. Not sure it means much. They’re all basket cases, by any reasonable standard.
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FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
IGNORAMUS ,  Russia  is a worldpower,  n° 3 in the world , behind your debt inflated nation and China !
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WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
4 years ago
Copy to War Party Lindsey Graham ……
The US controls about 750 bases in at least 80 countries worldwide and spends more on its military than the next 10 countries combined. 
How about a trade, Lindsey ?   Russian nukes in Mexico for US nukes in Ukraine?  Sounds like a fair deal.   Speak up, Lindsey . 
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
The US has no nukes in Ukraine, the Baltics, Poland, Romania or Bulgaria. There are no nukes in any country bordering Russia.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
There is missile infrastructure which can be used to launch nukes with a day of preparation.
Nuclear capable bombers fly attack runs on the Western & Eastern borders of Russia regularly.
Why would the Russians feel threatened? Because they are being told the missile infrastructure is to intercept missiles from Iran and N Korea. Such transparent lies are a giveaway.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Russia has
missile structures also that can be pointed at Western Europe and the US within
one day. Russia also routinely flies nuclear capable bombers around Western
European countries, Japan and Alaska daily so stop playing the victim and maybe
wonder why Russia is disliked by all its neighbors.
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
“Russian nukes in Mexico for US nukes in Ukraine”
Better yet: A nuke behind every blade of grass.
Or, at a minimum: Pretty much everything aside from a nuke. Even that would go a long way to render nukes a whole lot less consequential, as a means to bully others around. Which was what the US Second was always about.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Scholz stopped the Nord Stream 2 pipeline indefinitely today. He said the situation is now a different one. Germany has decided which side they are on.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
How can he stop it?
It isn’t even up & running.
Europe is trying to commit suicide, the people in charge don’t yet realize it’s not like switching flavors of tea.
Energy is not a consumer item, it is the foundation of every unit of GDP.
Good luck without home heating, without electricity, without fertilizer, without greenhouses for vegetables, without transportation.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
North Stream 2 was just waiting approval and now it will never get it. North Stream 1 will eventually be stopped too. Energy is found everywhere. Some are more expensive than others and Russian gas is just too expensive when you roll in the hidden costs. Europe can and will survive nicely without Russian gas. You vastly overestimate Russia’s importance to Europe’s energy mix. Some heavy industry will have to be curtailed but there will be heating. Fertlizer can be bought in a lot of places as well as vegies. Don’t worry though. China will buy your oil and gas. They would love to have you even more dependent on them than you already are.
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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Maybe another pipeline to Asia will be built
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Pipelines take years to realize, and need consent of transit countries.
The Russians are hard at work interconnecting gas east/west of the Urals to the far east.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago

The map Mish put up shows the part of Ukraine controlled by Russia in dark.
The next lighter color are the areas of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
controlled by Ukraine. Russia by recognizing Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
includes the two-thirds of those oblasts that they do not occupy yet. I expect
them to go occupy the rest. Putin’s address to the nation yesterday was
over-the-top surrealistic.

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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The self-proclaimed republic of Kosovo occupies completely the Kosovo. I think Donetsk and Lugansk should do the same.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Then you are for the Russians to take the two-thirds of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts that are under Ukraine control. Would you be for the Russians taking more? If so then how much more? Is there a point for you where Russia takes too much? This is a transcript between Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov and journalists that took place a couple of hours ago. 

CNN: Regarding the recognition of the sovereignty of the DNR and LNR, tell me, are we talking about recognizing them in their current, de facto borders or within the borders of the entire Luhansk and Donetsk regions? As we understand it, these are a bit different.

Dmitry Peskov: Within the borders that they have proclaimed themselves.

CNN: Proclaimed at what point?

Dmitry Peskov: Well, when these two republics were proclaimed.

Bloomberg: Can you elaborate on this issue?

Dmitry Peskov: No, I have nothing to add.

Ekho Moskvy: Do these borders include Mariupol, for example?

Dmitry Peskov: I have nothing to add to this. Within the borders in which they exist and have been proclaimed.

Ekho Moskvy: In which they exist or were proclaimed?

Dmitry Peskov: Well, in which they were proclaimed and exist.

Ekho Moskvy: Meaning, within the current borders?

Dmitry Peskov: I have nothing to add to this.

BBC News: Can you clarify? I don’t quite understand: Will the recognition of the people’s republics mean the borders that exist now or those that they’ve proclaimed themselves?

Dmitry Peskov: Within the borders in which these republics were proclaimed.

BBC News: In 2014? Meaning, the entire Donetsk and Luhansk regions?

Dmitry Peskov: In this case, I’ve said everything I can on this subject.

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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
It depends only on what the populations want
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
No. It depends on what Putin wants.
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RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Putin didn’t overthrow Yanukovich.
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Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
If only there was someone related to a head of state that was also linked to a firm which deals with natural resource extraction in that part of the world.  A little horse trading, spread a few dollars around, and call it a day!
Call_Me_Al
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Here’s the problem that Biden faces with sanctions and why he is nothing but talk.  Putin knows that Europe needs his gas & oil.  As I posted above, full forward on making fusion power work is the only way to cut off Russia and the Middle East from holding the rest of the world hostage to energy.
========
Europe faces sanctions nightmare of paying for Putin’s war
Energy sales are the Kremlin’s cash cow but the EU is not keen to sever oil and gas flows from Russia in case of a deeper conflict in Ukraine.
February 21, 2022 7:42 pm
As the West weighs how to sanction Russian President Vladimir Putin over the escalation of conflict in Ukraine, Europe runs a high risk of helping fund the Kremlin’s war machine through payments for oil and gas.
No one seems to have an easy way around that conundrum.
In a public show of alignment with Washington, the Europeans have been talking tough on sanctions against Russia, even before Putin sent “peacekeepers” into the east of the country on Monday night. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has vowed to cut Russia out of the international banking system and U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson says that Russian companies won’t be able to conduct transactions in U.S. dollars and British pounds.
Imposing those financial sanctions could hit Putin hard, but the EU’s position is hazy when it comes to squeezing his all-important hydrocarbon revenues, which provide more than a third of Moscow’s budget. It remains unclear whether banking sanctions would prevent EU payments to Russia’s state-run gas company Gazprom. As things stand, the energy money looks highly liable to keep flowing to Moscow, even during a Russian war against an EU ally.
….
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Putin has already said the sanctions will be applied sooner or later regardless.
Russia has discounted this and considers it fait accompli.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Putin’s idea of WHAT sanctions will be applied might not match the reality.  In other words, they might turn out to be significantly worse than he has planned for.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
I wonder if the Russian Kamchatka Peninsula might be interested in forming an independent state.  We could let them know that we would be first to “recognize” them as an independent country. [lol]
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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
They could be followed by Alaska ? Anyway, more than 80% of the population in Kamtchatka is russian.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
That doesn’t mean that they want to live under the rule of Putin.  And I seriously doubt that the population of Alaska is clamoring to be reunited with Russia also.  Nice try though.
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Not dealing with Putin sooner is going to cost more lives and move borders back to what they were when the Soviet Union existed. There is nothing to stop Putin from taking back more territory that was lost in the 1990s. Of course he isn’t as dumb as his KGB forefathers but that doesn’t mean he won’t keep expanding Russian borders. 
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
“but that doesn’t mean he won’t keep expanding Russian borders. “
Which, unless he starts taking back Alaska, is exactly no business at all, of anyone in the US…
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Sounds exactly what a state department employee would post.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Has Putin ever said anything to support your claims?
Putin considered the Soviet Union a catastrophe for Russia.
He has said Russia has all the territory it needs. What it needs is more people.
He also wants productive trade with the West, but the West would rather demonize Russia.
Well not the people and the businesses in the West, just the international pols acting in defiance of the people’s express wishes (for instance in Referenda about treaties with the Ukraine).
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Esclaro
Esclaro
4 years ago
I wonder how many of the pro-Russia comments below originated from the troll farm in St. Petersburg? Good job, comrades! 
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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Another Russiagate ?
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whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
The DONORcrat Party has ZERO commitment to American people and are headed for a HUGE defeat in November.   Russiagate is the only thing they have left.  Know the saying about hammers and problems and nails?
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
I would guess 0.
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Esclaro
Esclaro
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Of course you would, comrade! Everyone knows good red blooded Americans love commies!
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whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Maybe when you eventually realize that Putin is not a communist, and that the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is one of the opposition parties in present-day Russia, it will be time for you to come up with a new slogan.  When would that be?   In another 10 years?  20?   30?   LOL
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
So, because I don’t think anyone posting here works for a Russian troll farm, that make me a lover of commies? Are you Jake Sullivan?
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Esclaro
Esclaro
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Every comment you make is sucking up to your leader. Literally every single one. Move to Russia if you like it so much. We need to start dealing with traitors the old fashioned way.
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ohno
ohno
4 years ago
So either Ukraine can go along or end up losing and causing who knows how many casualties and try dragging others in as well. Taking bets.
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TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
I’m with Mish, it’s not our problem nor should we be getting involved.
A historical look at the region over the past 150 years shows what is now Ukraine to have belonged to multiple countries (mostly split among larger countries/empires). It’s only existed in its current form since the mid 90’s when the USSR dissolved. In many ways the arbitrary drawing up of Ukraine reminds me of what happened in the Middle East & India/Pakistan in the early 20th century when the British Empire dissolved in those regions and arbitrarily drew lines and created countries with no accounting for ethnic or religious groups. That’s why those areas and countries are always on or at war.
It makes total sense for ethnic Russians in the East to form their own country separate than the western part who are not Russian and don’t speak Russians. Putin is simply helping to correct a mistake made in the 90s.
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
There are Russians in America too and many parts of the west are littered with those of Russian origin. It makes total sense to separate those parts of America into Russian territories. Heck why don’t we do that with Mexico, Germany, Spain, France and England as well. Why even have any territorial integrity. 
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honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
please separate me from my Russian neighbors, they are the worst of neighbors…
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Your argument is a good example of false equivalence.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
He has the right arguement but used it with Russians in the US when the better way is to have used the example of Russian minorities in countries surrounding Russia some of which belong to Nato. By Putin’s logic those Russians and the countries they live in belong to Russia.
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
“It makes total sense to separate those parts of America into Russian territories.”
If they want to be. It’s called freedom. Used to be popular in America.
For Americans; and others who do care; the possible problem is that Putin (like Zelensky and The West), may corral even people who don’t want to be part of Russia (nor Ukraine.) To that problem, the solution is, as always, the US’ Second: Shower separatists, and others, of every stripe with meaningful arms, and you end up with the closest you’ll get, to a guarantee that noone is annexed against their will. Worked like a charm against The Kremlin last time the US had the tried it, in Afghanistan in the 80s. Perhaps the only US foreign policy success since the Revolution.
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RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
“Why even have any territorial integrity.”
U.S. democrats want open borders.
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TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
It seems reasonable to give them a vote to do so once they’ve lived in an area for a couple of hundreds years or more. That’s what the situation is in the Ukraine. Those people are not recent immigrants looking to separate. They’ve been there for hundreds of years.
BTW, Canada did just that with Quebec twice (1970’s and 1990s).
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Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
Let’s see if OPEC takes out Russia by flooding the oil markets. That may also undo that coal agreement with China.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
If the US didn’t try to vassalize Ukraine through expanding NATO, none of this would have happened.
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
Ukraine, and other countries, like the Baltics, feared being forcibly re-united with Russia. The Baltics and Poland  (as well as East Germany via reunification with West Germany) were able to get admitted to Nato. Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine would like to be in. However, the result has been Russia taking by force the Crimea from Ukraine, and Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia, and now two additional areas from Ukraine. Are Ukraine and Georgia right to fear being forcibly re-united with Russia? Is Russia right to fear Nato on it’s borders? It’s not really any of our business, though I do hope they don’t manage to start WWIII in the process.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Crimea voted to join the Russian Federation (something like 97% in favor). Shouldn’t the people of Crimea be allowed to chose their own destiny? Ukraine like most eastern European nations are the byproduct of the Soviet Union, many are not comprised of a single ethnicity or people group which leads to internal instability. In the case of Ukraine, the eastern half is mostly Russian ethnicity while the west is majority Ukrainian.
But it all boils down to why are we involved in the first place. It’s on Russia’s borders, let them sort it out. We shouldn’t be there and NATO is long past its usefulness. 
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
The US does not have a single ethnicity, either, yet we have stability. Sure, there are some that always are trying to increase racial division in the US, but the ties that bind us are stronger. For all the talk of racism in the US, there there far, far more in other places. If the US can exist as a melting pot, other places, such as Ukraine, can work to bridge the gap between people of Ukrainian descent and people of Russian descent. The world does not need to break down into tiny countries, split everywhere along racial boundaries. I reject that argument.
I do, however, agree, that the US is not the world’s policeman, and that this, in particular, is a European problem, not a US problem.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
It sounds like the US has a different culture, one that would allow it to be a melting pot.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
You can’t make Ukraine a melting pot while their government actively tries to suppress Russian culture through legislation, like banning the Russian language in schools, among other things. That’s one of the reasons Crimea held a referendum to leave Ukraine in 2014.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Modern Russia is an amalgam of all kinds of ethnic minorities.
Shoigu, their Minister of Defense is a Buddhist from Mongolia.
How many Russians headed the Soviet Union?
Lenin was Jewish, as all but 2 of the original Bolsheviks.
Stalin was Georgian
Krushchev was Ukrainian.
Brezhnev was born in the Ukraine.
Gorbatchov was Russian, but he took Russia out of the USSR
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Russia is actually an ethnic amalgam.
Defense minister Shoigu is a Buddhist from Mongolia.
Lenin was Jweish, as were all but 2 of the original Bolsheviks.
Stalin was Georgian
Krushchev was Ukrainian
Brezhnev was born in the Ukraine
Gorbatchov was Russian, but he took Russia out of the USSR
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
“The world does not need to break down into tiny countries, split everywhere along racial boundaries.”
But neither do people who want to split off into a tiny country, need to be barred from doing so. Those who want to stay together, should. Those who don’t, should split. Pretty simple.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
Hey!  Russia is nirvana incarnate.  If anyone wants to vote to be part of the great, robust Russian economy and live under the rule of Putin, I say, let them go.
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
If Putin had a legitimate democracy, none of this would have happen. Stop pretending this started 10 years ago. The problem started when Putin overthrew the election apparatus in the late 1990s and effectively had a coup to become President. 
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
By your definition then Ukraine doesn’t have a “legitimate democracy” either…or is a “legitimate democracy” what you call it when the US backs a coup.
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whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Are you a DONORcrat Party fan?   If you are, then you have ZERO effing right to talk about any other country interfering in any election anywhere.
HR Clinton (on elections in Palestinian territories) : “… if we were going to push for an election, then we should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win.”
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Maybe if we didn’t orchestrate the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, none of this would have happened. Stop the absurd hypocrisy. The real problem is lack of democracy? You do realize Ukraine doesn’t have a democracy either. Don’t you?
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Rbm
Rbm
4 years ago
Chinas watching 
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honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
4 years ago
lets hope the American people voice opinions on this admin loudly, they created this quagmire and loaded the dice long before this first throw….
The southern border is much more important to me than 2 states trying to stay free of the Mafia we put into Kiev….
Its like living in San Francisco, if your not defying the liberal political mafia of corruption residing here, than u lose. Give them a vote…..
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  honestcreditguy
No, this administration didn’t create this problem. It is just inevitable aftershocks from the breakup of the USSR 30 years ago.
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honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Biden is directly part of Admin that put the thugs in power in Kiev….coups have repercussions
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ohno
ohno
4 years ago
Reply to  honestcreditguy
No doubt! All the drugs and criminal activity trampling our border like it was a daisy field, affecting us directly on our homeland and it’s all about crap 1000s of miles away I am so sick of this crap!
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shamrock
shamrock
4 years ago
I’m sure you’re right, no sense getting upset.  Putin will stop there with those 2 states, he will absolutely not march into Kiev.  Unless he has a really good reason.
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az_dirt
az_dirt
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
Truly.  No further territorial ambitions in Europe, err, Ukraine.

“While Moscow points to the Western-supported separation of Kosovo
from the Serb Republic in early 2008, which continues to be deeply
resented in Russia, to explain the legitimacy of its takeover of Crimea.
But many in the Western world feel reminded of an entirely different
historical parallel.

Hitler’s occupation and annexation of the Czechoslovakian
Sudetenland with its many ethnic Germans in October 1938 appears to have
certain similarities with the Russian annexation of Crimea.”

By early 1938, German propaganda had been claiming that the Czechs were
committing atrocities against the 3 million Sudeten Germans (about 23.5
percent of the population). Nazi Germany threatened to protect them by
military means. Hitler told the British Prime Minister that beyond
Sudetenland he had “no further territorial ambitions in Europe.”
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whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  az_dirt
“Hitler told the British Prime Minister that beyond Sudetenland he had “no further territorial ambitions in Europe.” “

You mean the same way that US and UK told the then Soviet leadership that NATO had no further territorial ambitions towards Eastern Europe?

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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  az_dirt
What if Putin just signed treaties with the independent states and made their own NATO, guaranteeing their freedom and independence. I’m sure the US would understand that approach.
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
What if we justnlet Ukraine and Georgia decide if they want to be part of a re-united USSR or a part of Europe?
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Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Ukraine decided quite clearly that they wanted to be a part of Europe.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Not that clearly.
Yanukovych was driven from power by an illegal unconstitutional coup, featuring billions from American guided NGO’s, and shooting by Nazi’s killing indiscriminately among unarmed police officers as well as demonstrators. The decision to orient their economy (such as it still is) towards Russia or Europe remains a point of discussion, and the rewards of EU orientation have so far proved deeply disappointing.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
So Crimea (majority Russian ethnicity) voted to join the Russian Federation, now Russia recognizes the independence of two Russian ethnicity majority parts of Ukraine, and now you jump to the conclusion that the USSR is back?
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
Because there is no freedom or independence in Russia. Stop pretending Putin has more credibility than the west. He doesn’t. Russia isn’t even a a democracy. Let’s not pretend this started with the US. The problem started when Putin effectively overthrew Yeltsin and took over by coup.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
Well actually Yeltsin appointed Putin to be his successor after he resigned. By your logic, the Ukraine problems started when the USSR fell.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
Russia tried to do that but none of their neighbors wanted to join. They wanted to join Nato instead. Wonder why?
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
After liberating Abkhazia and South Ossetia in 2008, Russia was happy. Of course, six years later, they needed to liberate Crimea. Now it is seven years later, and it’s time to liberate  Donetsk and Luhansk. There is no reason to believe they will annex anything else, is there?
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
It’s good to liberate countries, the US does it all the time.
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Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
It seems that US and EU don’t remember Kosovo. I am sure that Russia and Serbia do remember it.
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FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
4 years ago
Great analysis Mish. Obviously I am not talking about you in this matter but to truly understand the geo-political dynamic of an unfolding “situation” in the world one has to check their biases by putting themselves in the other person’s shoes. You have done that quite well in this article and for that I tip my hat to you. 
Now waiting patiently for the reflexive knee-jerk comment to manifest. You just know that it’s coming. And it’ll come from someone who couldn’t find Patmos on a map, let alone Burma (the latter of course is a trick question but not to those that are not ignorant).
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Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Putin has Europe over a barrel….of oil (not to mention gas, and a slew of strategic metals). NATO scrambles to find something else to sanction (but not oil, cuz we all want that)…..meanwhile Putin foams at the mouth about WMD’s in Ukraine and rolls the tanks.
Pathetic response so far.  Putin will pause here for a year or two, but it ain’t over. No, not nearly over. We (the US) ought to recognize the futility of our position and just GTF out of Europe. Let  Germany dance with the bear on their own for a few years and see how they like it. 
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
It would be cheaper to build a pipeline from Canada to Europe  then allow Europe to dance with the bear. But that would be too smart a thing to do. Germany may have to relearn the lessons of WW2. 
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Casual_Observer2020
WW2? You do realize it was Germany that broke a treaty and invaded Russia? Not the other way around.
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Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“We (the US) ought to recognize the futility of our position and just GTF out of Europe. Let  Germany dance with the bear on their own for a few years and see how they like it.”
Wouldn’t that be tantamount to pulling out of NATO? That would be an excellent outcome for Russia.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
The problem with that would be that Germany would then feel it necessary to really build out their armies again.  And given how stubborn the Germans are known to be, could lead to another Nazi army looking to invade something for as always, “security”.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
If Germans were still Nazis wouldn’t they jump at the opportunity to build up their army?
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  EGW
It’s not difficult to rekindle a flame with a few sparks.
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goldguy
goldguy
4 years ago
lol, brandon should have kept all the equipment he left in afghanistan and sent it to ukraine.  No worries, he will F this up as well…
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  goldguy
It freed up troops and resources that would be needed for more important things like what we have now. It was the good move but unfortunately it was badly organized.
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Dean_70
Dean_70
4 years ago
The US can sit idle and allow this independence without any conflict. Ukraine won’t be any use blocking Russia’s assistance to these regions. 
But that will not happen.
Biden NEEDS this war to occur as quickly as possible. It is behind schedule. The market shock begins now!
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Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Hopefully Putin will be satisfied for now with the two provinces.
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Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
That’s a lot of water under the bridge. What happened before matters little now. What comes next does. As for Germany they know they got themselves in a bind. 
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Biden needs to do a Manhattan project on fusion energy.  This is the only thing that will free the world from the stranglehold of the oil & gas producers.
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Naphtali
Naphtali
4 years ago
Just waiting here for eastern Oregon, eastern Washington and Northern California to be recognized by Idaho.
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Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
4 years ago
Reply to  Naphtali
How many divisions has the potato?
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Jackula
Jackula
4 years ago
Reply to  Naphtali
No thanks. I have plenty of relatives in Idaho. It was a great place to move to 20 years ago. With all of the far right no-tax kooks moving there they are spending no money on infrastructure and urban planning and its already turned into a congested hodgepodge. It’s also mostly lily-white, not a very good look in these times.
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Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Jackula
There is a homeless crisis in Spokane. And it isn’t non-white people. Ironic.
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Another viewpoint.
=========
Russia Has Given Up On Negotiations and Will Resolve the Donbass Issue by Recognizing the Independence of the Republics
Paul Craig Roberts
February 21, 2022
As I sit down to write Tass has not yet announced Putin’s decision about Russia’s recognization of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, formerly Russian territory that the Soviet government attached to Ukraine.  However, as the decision of the Russian Security Council was unanimous, supported even by the pro-American Atlanticist Integrationist member, Putin will not go against the position of the Security Council.  Putin himself was of the same opinion as his statements and questions indicated.
Understand that this is not about reabsorbing Donbass into Russia like Crimea, but merely recognizing the republics as independent countries.
….
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Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
LOL you believe yourself?
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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
One Way to Settle This
How about an honest vote?
If the people living in Donetsk and Luhansk do not want to be part of Ukraine, then why should they be part of Ukraine?
Does that apply to California and Texas also?
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Jmurr
Jmurr
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Of course. The sooner the US breaks up into 200 different independent republics, the sooner we can all start rebuilding what the State has destroyed. 
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hhabana
hhabana
4 years ago
About time! Glad to see Putin recognize these republics. That idiot Obama started this all with Cookies Nuland. The USA only has Russia and China standing in its way of total world domination. Why can’t our leaders listen what George Washington said regarding “foreign entanglements” which has lead us to our demise when looking at 800 billion spent yearly on MIC!!! Now we’re at 30 trillion national debt. 
Funny that our southern border is not of any concern because there are those looking to dilute the American population (Democrats) and those that care only for US corporate cheap labor (both Democrats and Republicans). Biden shuffles the illegals throughout the country while faking concern about Covid and vaccines. What a joke! Trump was not perfect and a disappointment after the election, but at least he tried to protect our southern border from illegals and fentanyl. That you can give him credit for. 
Regarding Lyndsey Graham, he is in the top 10 worst RINO’s. Don’t get me started on the Democrats. Both parties do not represent the best interests of the American public and are beholden to corporate sponsors and self enrichenment. 
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whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  hhabana
The irony is that 0-bama was given a Nobel Peace Prize!   For exactly WHAT????  

Hell, 0-bama even managed to earn the dubious distinction of a Nobel Peace Prize winner bombing a fellow-Nobel Peace Prize winner!   If anybody had written a story with an absurdity like that, nobody would have believed it.  

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dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
This is somewhat related.

Why did the price of gold freeze today?  It hasn’t moved since 2 PM and I can’t figure out why.

It’s an international market and I’ve never seen it close for a US holiday before.

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Mish
Mish
4 years ago
I actually had Texas as an example but I thought it would bring out the nut cases. 
Yes, If Texas votes to leave, let it.
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vanderlyn
vanderlyn
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
i agree of course,  but i think that issue was resolved at the appomatox courthouse.   there are many flaws with us constitution,  but the biggest glaring omission is an exit ramp / divorce decree.   
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shamrock
shamrock
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
How much of the $30t in national debt will Texas need to pay the other 49 states?
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TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
You don’t pay the other 49 states. Instead you take a percentage of that national debt when you leave.
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EGW
EGW
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The Empire wouldn’t let one of its provinces go so easily.
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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Texas wasn’t exactly brought in by democratic processes.
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Paradox1
Paradox1
4 years ago
If Texas doesn’t want to be part of USA let them vote.  But make sure the vote happens with US Army tanks lined up around the Texas border.  That would be a fair vote, right?
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Naphtali
Naphtali
4 years ago
Reply to  Paradox1
Only the southern border. Two birds with one stone.
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