Ukraine’s president said his country would never recognize Russian control of Crimea.
Zelensky Pushes Back
The Wall Street Journal reports Ukraine’s Zelensky Pushes Back on U.S. Peace Plan
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky pushed back on a U.S. proposal to recognize Russia’s control of Crimea as part of a cease-fire agreement, throwing into doubt President Trump’s efforts to bring an end to the war.
“Ukraine will not legally recognize the occupation of Crimea,” Zelensky said at a press conference here on Tuesday. “There’s nothing to talk about here. This is against our constitution.”
Zelensky’s dismissal upends Trump’s latest gambit to halt the war in Ukraine—now in its fourth year—and casts new uncertainty on the future of the relationship between Kyiv and Washington, which Trump has made conditional on a quick deal.
American officials had presented a series of ideas for ending the war, including the Crimea proposal, to Ukrainian officials last week and expected an answer on Wednesday at a summit in London, where Ukrainian, U.S. and European officials will gather.
Zelensky said Russia should agree to a cease-fire before further talks to demonstrate “serious steps, and not childishness.”
In recent days, American officials had floated the idea of formally acknowledging Russian control of Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia’s military in 2014, while freezing the conflict along current lines. It couldn’t be established whether the idea was for the U.S. to recognize Russia’s hold on Crimea, or for Ukraine to do so as well.
Major progress in the talks now appears less likely, after Zelensky batted away many of the latest U.S. proposals on Tuesday.
The U.S. proposal to recognize Crimea had put Zelensky in a difficult position: The Ukrainian public remains solidly opposed to territorial concession, and the Ukrainian constitution clearly prohibits it. But if he rejected the idea too directly, he risked losing U.S. aid again.
A poll conducted earlier this year by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology found that 39% of Ukrainians would be willing to give up territory as part of a deal to end the conflict, up from 8% in late 2022. Still, 50% of Ukrainians remain opposed to territorial concessions.
Zero Chance Ukraine Holds Crimea
There is zero chance Ukraine keeps Crimea. And the longer Ukraine keeps this stance the more territory it will lose.
If Zelensky thinks the EU will be some shining white night he is delusional.
Half of Germany wants this war over just to get more natural gas from Russia.
Progress? What Progress?
Trump keeps citing progress. Neither Ukraine nor Russia have given an inch. If anything Zelensky is backtracking with these statements.
I had hopes, even expectations Trump would be further along than where we are.
It seems Ukraine may need to lose still more territory first.
Trump-Zelensky Meeting Implodes, Trump Says “Come Back When You Want Peace”
On February 28, 2025, I commented Trump-Zelensky Meeting Implodes, Trump Says “Come Back When You Want Peace”
Put a minerals’ deal with Ukraine temporarily on hold, but Zelensky “has no cards”.
Zelensky Seeks Deal One Day After Trump Cancels All Aid to Ukraine
On March 4 I noted Zelensky Seeks Deal One Day After Trump Cancels All Aid to Ukraine
Yesterday, Trump paused all military aid to Ukraine after a disastrous meeting with Zelensky last Friday. Now what?
And here we are again with Zelensky making ridiculous demands.
If Epstein can be disappeared, why can’t Zelensky?
His endgame (really his middle game if we’re using a chess analogy) is to somehow get the war sharply escalated by inducing Russia to strike at a NATO member, or inducing Russia to strike at US C2 facilities in Wiesbaden, or inducing Russia to strike at US surveillance assets in space or in the air, or inducing a NATO member to put substantial numbers of troops in Ukraine, or to bring the world to the brink of a nuclear catastrophe by either destroying a “hot” nuclear reactor or by using a “dirty” (radioactive) weapon to strike Russia. He has no endgame except chaos.
Let’s not forget that Trump is not putting any serious security guarantees on the table. So Zelensky is being asked to give up territory with no guarantee for the future. While the stand of peace at any cost is laudable, it is not even on the table until Trump steps up. The idea that Putin won’t come back for another go 2 years later unless there is a serious deterrent is nonsense.
Why isn’t Trump stepping up? There is something behind this that is not in the public domain. Personally I suspect that it is as simple as Trump sees Putin as a route to enriching his family….and Putin has indicated this to him.
As Orban correctly recently said, Trump is just trying to save the US the huge embarassement of the big defeat that they suffered in the war that THEY THEMSELVES STARTED.
The NATO – Russia war in Ukraine is lost, it doesn’t matter what the Clown World’s leaders will do or will not do, the smarter ones will try to distance themselves as much as possible, the other ones will go down with the ship.
Fuck them all.
This is a war initiated by US neocons using Ukrainians young men as cannon fodder. US weapons, strategy and intelligence.
Yet another loss for the military industrial complex. Soon onto the next victim in ongoing tragedy.
It would be idiotic for Zelensky to give away Crimea before serious talks have even begun. Even more idiotic for the US to make the request. That’s not how negotiations work. Bunch of amateurs.
These “negotiations” are so far removed from reality that they are clearly just for show…
And “giving away” Crimea or not is so far out of any possible discussion that’s not even funny, Ukraine and the West would have to make FAR FAR BIGGER “concessions” (i.e. recognition of reality) for any real agreement to actually be reached, which is why (THANK GOD!) there will not be any agreement (i.e. compromise) and Russia will be forced to reach its maximalist goals (like the majority of the population and the military want) in spite of Putin’s dovish inclinations.
lol, go help with the negotiations, oh brave and knowledgeable keyboard warrior and expert on all things Russia and Ukraine!
Not sure why historical background isn’t mentioned when Crimea is discussed. Crimea was part of Russia since Katheryn the Great. It was symbolically granted to Ukraine by Khrushchev.. It was rumored he was drunk at a dinner party when he acquiesced to the Ukrainian request. Since they were a part of the communist block it really didn’t make much of a difference. It is home to their Black Sea navel fleet and a vital military asset. The US would have done the same thing, ie retake Crimea, if Russia had infiltrated Canada and turned them against the US. We are solely responsible for the war by our interefence. The lives of innocent Russian and Ukrainan soldiers are on our hands, mainly FJB’s., and John Mccain. May he roast in hell.
Crimea was illegally transferred to Ukraine by Krusciov (who grew up in Ukraine and had been married to a Ukrainian…), a big part of the Politburo and of the Stavka opposed the move, which was not even legal under the Russian Constitution, but in the end let it happen because it really wasn’t that important back then since both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union.
Still, the condition was that the Russian Oblast (Region) of Crimea was transferred to Ukraine not as an Oblast (a Region) but as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Crimea was NEVER a region (oblast) of Ukraine. It’s still written in the Ukrainian Constitution: Ukraine was made up of 24 regions plus the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, which elected its own President and its own Parliament.
And it was Crimea’s President and Parliament who, in line with the UN laws, after the American orchestrated coup in Kiev in 2014 indicted the referendum by which the Crimean people overwhelmingly chose to go back home to the Russian Federation.
Inhabitants of Crimea were Tartars and not Ukrainian when acquired by Katherine the Great, Tartars forcibly expelled. Assume Zelensky when awarded Crimea will return it to the Tartars?
The Ukraine was a viking land. The people of the Ukraine have viking genes. They
are Kiev Rus. They sailed in the Dieniper all the way south to the Byzantine Empire
Crimean Rus were long ago conquered by Turks who are by far the majority of the population. Scandinavian populations became the Eastern Romans Varangian Guard. Interestingly, after William of Normandy conquered England, almost the entire Anglo-Saxon nobility left England to fight for the emperor. They founded a city in Crimea called Nova Londinium.
Kyiv International Institute of Sociology is a private entity with funding from USAid and many European & American organizations; its polls (and any UA sourced “facts”) are unreliable under the tutelage of Zelensky Uniform Information regime.
What about the people of Crimea? Does not Crimea belong to them?
They again became an autonomous Republic in 1991, and the relationship with UA as container country was always fraught. The majority was against the new 2014 Putsch regime, are Russian, voted for reunification with Russia, and was protected by Russia when the UA army stormed parliament in 2014.
What would be the lot of the Crimean people under the Kyiv regime?
We actually know, because officials have talked about re-educating the population, as well as eliminating the 1/3 that could not be re-educated. This is not idle talk, since we know from videos they took of themselves that the UA armed forces shot “collaborators” (nurses, teachers, municipal workers) outside of town at the edge of ravines after seizing parts of Kherson & Kharkiv in 2022, spots later re-designated by Western propaganda as Russian mass graves
Serious question Mish, how do you explain the flood of pro Russian posts using broken English every time you post on this subject?
Nyet. Putin was speaking in German the other day, as if he was a character in Hogan’s Heroes.
I see nothing….. I know nooo-thing!
It’s just illiterates from zero hedge. They don’t write gud.
Sure, Phil, Everybody who disagrees with your opinion (handed to you by US state-controlled media) is a Russia bot or employee of Putin.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2025/04/22/americans-believe-russian-disinformation-to-alarming-degree/
Or maybe you are one of Putin’s useful fools?
“Ukraine’s president said his country would never recognize Russian control of Crimea.”
Doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t change reality. A lot of reality has changed since Yanukovich was overthrown in 2014. What are the secrets behind closed doors, that we still don’t know about? This has been a war between the U.S. and Russia, with Ukraine as a pawn on the chess board.
We know the CIA had at least 12 bases in eastern Ukraine (NYT) and that the U.S. purposely ginned up this war based upon plans formulated by Wess Mitchell and the RAND corporation in 2019 to “weaken Russia” (Lloyd Austin). While there may be additional hidden American perfidy, that’s enough already.
Ukraine will lose land and Europe will gain time to rearm. That’s all I’m seeing at this point.
Why on earth did you have high expectations Mish?
Temporary Insanity?
That said – Trump has a much better Chance than Biden
President Jake Sullivan would never have tolerated peace. His rise from Midwest obscurity to become the acting president for foreign affairs under Jill Biden hints at demonic influence. Anyone who strives to control the life and death of thousands as a key player in the Great Game is evil, as is Sullivan’s co-religionist Antony Blinken.
I don’t see the point in making premature concessions as long as there are no security guarantees on the table. Russia has not been a trustworthy participant in any talks to date.
It’s not that Crimea is going to revert. It’s that negotiating with an unreliable opponent without intermediaries who are willing to be truth-based and involved does not lead anywhere fruitful.
Zelensky?
Zelensky is out of luck.
Zelensky has wasted whatever small amount of luck he once had.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Speaking of beggars…
Zelensky is a comedian with no sense or education of history. He is the the lead actor in a long line US State Department and CIA puppets, his predecessor installed in a US led overthrow of the elected President ten years ago.
He led the West’s and the Nazi Ukrainian’s hate on Russia and shut down of any media, political parties and religious groups that dissented. They made the Russian language illegal to be spoken and abolished elections. All this in a country that once had the capital of Russia and who provided half the Soviet Union Premiers.
Sadly, Brussels and the Beltway want to take over the world, and HE is their key pawn picked from Europe’s most corrupt country…. today.
Z is a Pawn for certain. The EU or one might be more correct saying Germany, is still full hate on Russia. The UK is simply led by fools, as they were embraced by the Biden Regime and all of the nonsense that went with that. They ponied up as long as they got there X% of get along servitude payment.
Crimea is Russian Territory now, and will be for the very foreseeable future. Putin will dare and win against anyone that is stupid enough to try.
EU will break up long before they are even close to being able to even play a role in this affair. They have nothing more valuable to give.
U.S. just wants minerals etc. and as such, they will have them soon enough. Why do you think we paid so much into the affair? to get back out an equal amount of much needed Minerals and the like.
End result:
1. Russia Keeps Crimea
2. U.S. Gets Minerals Etc.
3. Ukraine gets to keep what’s left of Ukraine.
End of Story…
P.S. If and/or when the U.S. owns Greenland in the next 10-20 years, we won’t need the minerals from there, so we will sell them to Europe.
The Europeans and the UK might extend the war in order to get a larger share of the spoil at US expense. Zelensky signed a land lease deal with Biden.
Yes, the return of colonial imperialism again divvying up the spoils.
The new term is “spheres of influence” but yeah, same destination.
I hope the UK extends the war to the Thames.
= Crimea
actually Crimea was part of Kievan Rus and part of whole Slavic history/traditions for Ukraine/Russia/etc. it is holly land for eastern slavs .
or Scyphians who lived about 500 BC- 250 AD around black/azov sea traded w / ancient Greeks ! part of slav history too.
====
should I mention nowhere any Turks were found in 8*9th century in Crimea?
or earlier ?
google Oleg and Constantinople conquest. Constantinople was yet under Christian rule!
alx
Doesn’t matter. That entire region has been going to Hades since the collapse of the Lithuanian-Polish Empire.
Crimea is a stupid rock to die on, or extreme hard line bargaining.
It was part of Rus since 1750’s and before that Turk. It was transferred to UKR SSR in 1954. Allegedly to get the UKR delegates to vote for Khruschev as party leader, who grew up in and was associated with UKR.
At the time of the cessation vote it was 90%+ ethnic Rus and a couple of % UKR.
It was never part historically part of UKR (other than as part of the USSR) and there isn’t any ethnic UKR population to protect!
=It was part of Rus since 1750’s and before that Turk. It
did you miss hist. book that much ?
actually Crimea was part of Kievan Rus and part of whole Slavic history/traditions for Ukraine/Russia/etc. it is holly land for eastern slavs .
it was about 800*900 years before 1750!
or should I mention that scyphians who lived about 500 BC- 250 AD around black/azov sea traded w / ancient Greeks ? part of slav history too.
====
should I mention nowhere any Turks were found in 8*9th century in Crimea?
or earlier ?
google Oleg and Constantinople conquest. Constantinople was yet under Christian rule!
alx
Russia annexed Crimea in 1783 after it defeated the Ottoman Empire in a war. The Muslims in Crimea were driven out and were replaced by ethnic Russians.
How many more Ukrainians is Zelensky willing to lose in an ongoing war with Russia? My guess is that Russia will use nuclear weapons before it agrees to surrender its naval base at Sevastopol.
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward.
Into the valley of …
Everyone would have been better off if they had paid closer attention.
So you are OK with the Indians retaking control of the USA, their historical homeland?
I think that Russia and Ukraine need to negotiate their own settlement. The US and others should get out of the way. Let the Russians and Ukrainians sit down, beat each other over the head, and figure out a way to end this war. This is not a concern of the US. but we are the ‘experts’ in meddling in the affairs of other nations.
“Not a concern of US.” Conflict is a proxy war instigated and funded by US. Without US assistance, Kiev falls in a matter of days.
Amazing that so many commentors have been convinced that Zelensky, a brave and formidable hero, is the problem. Russia started the war. Hard stop. Putin is successfully playing Trump and appears to have successfully played Mish readers. Instead of backing Zelensky, so Zelensky had power going into negotiations, Trump diminshed Zelensky which will now force Ukraine to accept an unfavorable deal drafted by two men that cannot be trusted – Putin and Trump. Trump is useless.
What’s amazing is so many commenters talking, like you, with so much authority and certainty about a country, Ukraine, which they barely knew existed and about people and facts, like Zelensky and the NATO – Russia war in Ukraine, which they just discovered yesterday…
What the fuck do you know about Ukraine and “Ukrainians” and Russia and Russians?
What is the source of all of this knowledge that you think you have?
what do we need to know? Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign country. right? Ukraine has not attacked Russia, or had any plans of annexing Russia.
=Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign country. right?
before 1917 revolution finland, estonia, latvia etc WERE PART OF Russian empire. never ever states!
after 1991 most of post USSR republics got stateness too.
Ukraine included
Edited: sorry, I mistakenly addressed this reply to you.
“what do we need to know?”
To understand what’s happening, why and how it is going to end, you need to know the whole (short) history of Ukraine and the “Ukrainian” people and especially what’s been happening in Ukraine and to Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union.
If you did, you wouldn’t write ignorant shit like “Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign country. right? Ukraine has not attacked Russia, or had any plans of annexing Russia.”
You can start by searching for my posts on many Mish’s articles where the NATO – Russia war in Ukraine is talked about, especially in the last 6 months. I wrote about that in bits and pieces.
But but but, back in the year 1133… [rotflol]
The tragedy of what’s been happening to both “Ukrainians” and Russians and the ongoing huge loss of lives is obviously a joke to you.
But one of the many positive sides of it all is that (I am assuming you are an American) you too are going to eventually feel the consequences of the huge geopolitical and economic shift that your defeat will entail.
Fuck you.
Most people’s lives are worthless and whether one lives or not is of little to no consequence in the future of the universe.
Thanks for your contributions here under your hoity toity Latin handle.
Now go stand in front of your bathroom mirror and repeat 100 times:
“Most people’s lives are worthless”
And yours is clearly one of them.
Agreed.
We need to know what has been going on behind closed doors. All we know is a narrative, just as Safe and Effective was.
P.S. Read for example what I wrote about the true recent history of Crimea in other posts on this Mish article and you will maybe understand why bullshit like “Russia invaded Crimea”, “Russia illegaly annexed Crimea”, “Crimea is Ukrainian” and so on is utter bullshit fed by the Western MSM to the likes of you and that uneducated moron who started this thread.
See map of Eastern NATO expansion since 1996 of former Warsaw Pact countries. See invasions of Russia from the west in the last couple of centuries causing the deaths of tens of millions of Russians. Maybe, just maybe, look at the situation from the position of your opponent. Buffer zone of neutral countries would have avoided conflict.
So what do you want the US to do? We can’t produce enough weapons to keep up with the Russians and maintain our own defense. All expenditures by the US are borrowed.
All expenditures by the US are borrowed.
Precisely.But from whom? The “partners” Trump is busy screwing? Who is financing the American Dream through inflation of the Fed? The rest of the world, no? So why should the rest of the world be screwed because of the MAGAs who do not get the mechanics?
Unfortunately, the US has done enough and not in a good way. It refused to halt the expansion of NATO in the 1990’s. It instigated the Maidan Revolution in 2014, thereby destabilizing the region and then refused to give Putin a guarantee that Ukraine would not be admitted to NATO.
The Americans could throw sanctions at them.
Again.
Go to the front lines and don’t forget the cookies.
Speaking of cookies, what is Victoria Nuland doing in retirement these days?
Probably sacrificing babies at her coven.
– Zelensky, a brave and formidable hero, is the problem.
> Z is not a “formidable” anything. Z is in way over his head and intellect. Z has ordered and watched the Children / Boys of Ukraine get outright slaughtered. Z has mercifully cried and begged America to fight His War for Him, and also with more effort, mostly because the UK is very weak, The UK and EU. Z has tried guilt trips, lies, propaganda, and coerced countless money (where is it all?) various Countries.
>> What’s that? What has Z got to show for it ALL Well the list is long, but here are some snippets for you.
1. Z has zero control of everything now.
2. Z has slaughtered most of the young fighting soldiers.
3. Z will never get into NATO now.
4. Z and Ukraine need Food, Water, Power, Etc. Just to be able to survive, while Z continues to talk War and more Slaughter for the people, nice guy that Z… NOT!
5. Etc…
Let’s just wait 1-2 months and see who knows what and who is working on whos side.
In two months Russia well May have crushed Ukraine from any more attempt at war. Mostly because the UK and EU are broke, and can’t even defend themselves, and the U.S. smartened up and we are no longer sending our Countries Money to a War Monger with No Army, No Air Force, and No Navy left to fight one of the most Nuclear Powerful Countries on Earth.
Yeah let’s wait for that to occur, and then we can talk about poverty, and how much more money the EU, UK and US will be sending to Feed and Rebuild Ukraine. Good Plan… Not!
I’m pretty sure you are living in some kind of alternate reality that has nothing to do with the facts of this reality here. Russia has not moved forwards for a loooooong time. They may have temporarily captured something that they loose again in a few hours. In such cases, usually their media is “informing” about the first but “forgetting” to inform about the second. Thus the constant “air” of Russia moving forward when in fact it controls less Ukraine now than it did 3 years ago.
LOL. The billionaire jewish midget will lead a band of Latvians on a night mission to seize Crimea. Then he’ll rappel into Putin’s lair and kill him with a knife.
Congratulations on attracting this element to your blog, Mish
Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas
What – he’s not a midget? Where’s the cutoff?
Another rube who thinks history started in Feb 2022.
no, we’re not confused about who started the war and who the bad guy is. it’s just the situation is what it is. Ukraine isn’t winning and will lose for sure if western aid drops, and he needs a deal.
maybe Zelensky is simply playing hardball and will giv up Crimea at the end, which would make sense. you don’t give up stuff like that ahead of the start of the talks.
=Russia started the war.
did Russia started orange revolution in 2004? or 2014 maidan?
Ukraine was never a functional state!
it received all lands from szars and communists
YOU SHOULD READ HIST BOOK.! AND LESS WATCH CNN-ABC
I’m very sorry for Zalensky. He tried hard but too stupid. He doesn’t know he is used and Ukraine is sacrificed.
Zelensky is screwed–Trump wants a rapprochement with Russia so he can focus the US military on the Middle East and China.
And get a Trump hotel in Moscow Square.
– Ukraine’s president said his country would never recognize Russian control of Crimea.
> So Z is bloviating again I see. Why doesn’t He try to Stop the War and Deaths as a result of his lunacy. If it wasn’t for the fact that “The World” doesn’t want WW3, but much prefers Peace, then Z and Ukraine would be gone by now, and the Barron wastelands of the Old Country would be all that was left.
– Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky pushed back on a U.S. proposal to recognize Russia’s control of Crimea as part of a cease-fire agreement,
> Z is just such a Fool! I still wonder why Ukraine hasn’t kicked this fool to the curb, and tried to start to save there Country, before Z destroys what’s left.
– Zelensky said at a press conference: Blah, blah, blah… > Nobody cares what Z has to say, but Z. The sooner He and Ukraine realizes that, the sooner they may start listening to somebody else, that speaks English with recognizable attempts at “Peace Talk” and not gibberish.
– Zelensky said Russia should agree to a cease-fire before further talks to demonstrate “serious steps, and not childishness.”
> So the “Man Child” himself, in one of His Many “Little Boy Rants” stomps his feet like a child, and then speaks like a child, and sooooo He will be treated As The Child that He is, and has been, and simply refuses to grow up, and be A Man!!!
In recent days, American officials had floated the idea of formally acknowledging Russian control of Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia’s military in 2014, while freezing the conflict along current lines. It couldn’t be established whether the idea was for the U.S. to recognize Russia’s hold on Crimea, or for Ukraine to do so as well.
– Major progress in the talks now appears less likely, after Zelensky batted away many of the latest U.S. proposals on Tuesday.
> You don’t say… Trump-Zelensky Meeting Implodes, Trump Says “Come Back When You Want Peace” I doubt Z will be there, when that eventually occurs. He will be taken out by His own people, who much desire Peace, or taken out by His Own Citizens who Prefer Peace even more than Z and His Thugs…
Ukraine has the worst government on planet earth. No other government has the extinction of its own people as its goal, thus ‘to the last Ukrainian’ or phrases such as that. Nor is this simple hyperbole, given the daily losses plus the worst demographics in 300 years (Ukr. source)
Consider the background of it’s leaders. The president, his chief advisor, the PM, the Defence Minister. Do they have a much affinity with the bulk of the people of UKR
the people of crimea all chose to reunite with russia. the clown has no say. just as the other regions declared independence from the corrupt north atlantic terrorist run kiev.. trump has no say in anything.
Sorry to go off topic but it turns out DOGE was a scam. Elon Musk himself now admits he is out of his depth. So all the MAGA cult that was praising Musk were wrong and praising a fool. Gee, who could’ve known?
https://futurism.com/the-byte/elon-musk-white-house
And so the Trump house of cards begins falling apart….next up dems take congress and start impeachment (as predicted).
only fools fell for the dodge BS.
WHY does Ukraine continues to refuse to draft its 18-25 year old males? This is completely opposite every other country that goes to war.
I have never heard an explanation as to why Ukraine started drafting older people before, about a year ago, finally LOWERING their draft age to age 27.
This seems more than odd for a country facing an existential battle.
So again, WHY are they hewing to this policy?
It is difficult to believe that Ukraine is serious about fighting Russia while they hold back on drafting this age group.
About 9% of male Ukrainians of military are listed as refuges in European countries. Not all are suitable for military service but most are. There are some in Dubai and other countries. They are draft-dodgers. As a comparison in WW II only 1.5% of Americans drafted could be considered draft dodgers. The invasion of Ukraine is presented as existential to Ukraine as was WW II to Americans. Looking at the numbers, many Ukrainians don’t see this as existential to the survival at all. Additionally European governments also describe this war as existential to Europe however none are willing to mobilize their industry or military to the levels and existential war would require. The only conclusion one could make then is that there is a lot of rhetoric but their actions do not follow their words. They seem to be content to keep Ukraine fighting without giving them the means to take back territory and since the US makes the bulk of the effort and shoulders the bulk of the risk the European governments have no reason to change so they encourage Zelensky to resist Trump’s plans for peace and frankly make it part and parcel to the tariff negotiation question as well. This requires an extreme dose of cynicism but anyone who knows European governments, the people and its history recognizes the pattern immediately.
In WW2 40% of those drafted were unfit for military service. Don’t assume they weren’t draft dodgers. A 4f or 1y deferment is the easiest method of draft dodging. Your 1.5% number of dodgers is cuckoo. My father was forced into service in WW2 and I was forced to serve during the “Nam years. I regret serving given all the draft dodgers, like Biden and Trump. My dad also regretted his service (drafted in his 30’s) given all the special treatment. I wished I’d had the money to afford a doctor or lawyer like our rich politicians. Don’t buy all the WW2 glorification, there are no holy wars.
why? there are none left ,they are all dead.
Seriously what is wrong with you? Go volunteer yourself, you are the worst neocon ever. Obviously employed by the MIC.
Yeah, the old ones should be sitting on bar stools while the young are fed into the wood chipper. I’ve seen that somewhere before.
Why don’t you go fight Rambo? Most likely never served.You will be turd until your death.
Putin needs to take it all. America and the West played a horrible game using Ukraine as a proxy. This includes Trump. He’s just as guilty as Clinton, Bush, Obama and Biden. I hope we go broke so we can get back to taking care of our country and people instead of this constant warmongering around the world.
This is actually an admirable resolution of UKR.
Firstly conscription is the most extreme statement that the state owns you. That the state is the lord and the people are serfs. It amazes me that any society that preaches ‘liberty’ would ever consider conscription. It is the complete opposite of liberty.
Secondly, it at least gives these children the opportunity to live some life and maybe have their children before they are sent to die.
Thirdly, in the case of UKR (and RUS) it is more significant as it already has a massive hole it it’s age distribution due the financial crisis after the collapse of the Soviet Union.. and simply doesn’t have enough young people available to send to the slaughter.
Anyone who thinks UKR should conscript young people who have not yet lived their life should be prepared to send their children or grandchildren first.
Because that’s the future of your country. Those are the males who are expected to be forming families and having kids to replenish the losses in the war. They are also the future working men for the economy too.
If you draft them and they all die / are maimed / or dodge to other countries then what’s going to be left? Just old men and children without fathers.
But it’s only the future of the country IF the country survives!
I don’t believe that the hoi polloi here understand the meaning of an existential fight.
Ukraine is fighting for its existence. If it loses, it’s borders are erased and it becomes part of Russia.
In this case, the government should throw EVERY possible resource into the battle because if they lose to Russia, then Russia will move its people there are repopulate the country.
Every other country throughout the history of human war FIRST sends the younger members of their population to battle because they are fitter and more able to endure the rigors of warfare.
Yet Ukraine does the exact opposite. This makes no sense. As Doug78 said prior “The only conclusion one could make then is that there is a lot of rhetoric but their actions do not follow their words.”
Now, there is an SF military series called “Old Man’s War” by author John Scalzi where only people past the age of 65 can join the military for the interstellar war against alien races. However, in this case, when these old people join the military, their bodies are cloned and rebuilt genetically, making them far improved over what they were when they were young people. Their minds and life experience are then copied and downloaded into the new bodies, after which the old bodies are disposed of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War
As many know, Crimea is Russian speaking and has historically been part of Russia.
There is no chance that the Ukraine can keep it. Zelensky is posturing. He will loose all support soon if he keeps it up. Trump could not care less about any ally and the word knows it. Handing the Ukraine to Russia is easy for trump.
Europe no longer has any reason to trust the U.S. while trump is in office. Therefore they have no reason to defend the Ukraine either. They may as well throw their hat in with the Russians at this point to get cheap energy as trump is more aligned with Russia than many know.
Trump wants to build resorts in Russia and capitalize on this as part of his family oligarchy. Destroying our international relationships and our nations legal system through appointments and defiance is just the beginning of trumps bankrupting America.
We all heard him state that he would be “Dictator on day one”.
It’s happening right in front of our eyes and no one gets it?
Elections have consequences!
Trump’s marketing is like the WWF, they sell “suspended reality” where you know its fake but watch it anyway and people pick their favorite wrestler and get sucked in.
China has kicked trump squarely in the nuts and supply shortages are on their way. Our only supplier of rare earths (MP Metals) has stopped production because it can not send its ore to China for processing. Yet trump is not stepping in to build a rare earth processing facility under the war powers act. Our defense contractors will be left to twist in the wind without the materials they need to build our sophisticated military hardware.
Trump is either incompetent or malicious. The outcome for America is the same.
We loose, while trump makes billions!
“…These ‘confidential defense reports’ explain the ‘panic’ at the Élysée palace…”
“Facing the Russians, France Is Army of Cheerleaders!”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/secret-french-military-documents-show-its-impossible-ukraine/
I don’t see the Europeans able to do something. If anything, direct European military involvement will escalate everything, perhaps even to nuclear, and nobody wants that. The West lost this war, Russia lost a lot too, and Ukraine was nearly destroyed. Maybe it was calculated from the beginning, as a cost of NATO expansion (to sacrifice Ukraine for it). The carnage was so vast that something tells me we won’t see another war through US meddling for decades to come.
Lofty thoughts, but the U.S. is addicted to selling weapons. What markets are there for our military hardware without protracted wars on foreign lands?
True. But something snapped with the Ukraine case, when you have even small local Greek stations reporting it as another US-induced war so casually as if it’s natural like rain. What was considered “conspiracy theory of the left” in the past, has now become a worldwide known fact even from the right wing. A loud minority would claim otherwise, but the US can’t afford another one.
Russia 2:1 Ukraine. Zelensky is still dribbling. Putin got his loot three years ago. Trump, the UK and the EU will fight over the spoils.
Perhaps Zelensky knows that Putin/Russia is barely able to field more soldiers and therefore can’t really advance?
Or perhaps he is counting on getting more weapons from Europe if the US packs up (see below)..
Speaking of which, this article could be a harbinger of a huge blow to our MIC, as former clients now turn to Europe for weapons because the US is no longer a reliable supplier or ally. Thanks Donald!
China has suspended all rare earth shipments to the U.S. and MP Metals (the U.S.’s only producer) can no longer ship it’s ore to China for processing. To add insult to injury, trump has not used the war powers act to build a refinery on U.S. soil.
This leaves our defense contractors without any supply, so buying from the U.S. will result in failed deliveries.
Who does trump work for?
We don’t really know exactly what’s happening, other than that the Russians are advancing slowly, securing village after village in such a way, that it would make it almost impossible for the West to negotiate a Russian retreat.
Europe can’t build any defenses, its borders are wide open. But it doesn’t have any real military threats either.
It could only build defenses for a conventional “officially declared gentlemen’s war with advance notice”, and it would run out of resources very quickly:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944
Don’t believe their hype – Europeans are hyperventilating with glorious announcements for 4 decades, but little to no substance.
We lost this war. What Trump is doing now, is “Defeat management“.
This probably includes the tariffs as well.
As far as the story with the “unique earth metals”, it sounds more like a new Lord of the Rings episode for the masses. I agree with Bannon on this one.
The actual “rare earths” deal presented to the Ukrainians included *all* natural resources such as natural gas plus control of all pipelines.
The Trump thinking was along the lines of….give me control of your natural resources including those in currently Russian held territory, we will develop and export them after making a deal to do the same with Russia for their natural gas, we end up controlling Europe’s energy supply plus a supply of critical minerals free of environmental constraints complete with low wage workers, while both Ukraine and Russia get rich from our efforts. Everybody just has to stop fighting and take regular vacation trips to the new amazing seaside resort in Gaza. Wait, no one is interested? Well then, if that’s your attitude, to hell with it, I’m out of here. …..
I understand this, but it sounds too bold and too optimistic. The US controlling Ukraine’s natural resources and beating Russia’s natural gas for Europe, sounds like too far fetched. Yeah, Biden wanted it this way too (and blew up Germany’s pipeline), but Trump over-promises, given the circumstances.
This war was over three years ago. Since Sept 2022 the pink and the gray areas were steadily growing at the expense of the black area until the Kursk counterattack. Since Oct 2024 the black area is shrinking again. By mid 2025 the pink and the gray area are likely to become the majority. Most Ukrainians face reality. Ukraine weak hands will be sold to the strong hands, to our hands. The fear of Trump is greater than the fear of Putin. Putin needs a security zone to separate Russia from us.
So give them Alaska, too! For precisely the same reasons.
He was talking about America conceding Ukrainian territory not American. Why should America get all hot and bothered about Russia and the Ukraine region trading territory back and forth as they have for centuries? It has literally nothing to with America.
Guys, Zelensky is not making decisions. It’s his Neocon controllers in the US and Europe, including NATO. Everything that can be done to start a war with Russia is being led by the above, with Zelensky as the front-hi-heeled man. Europe seems to relish the idea of war, probably because its economies are collapsing. Raising cash and creating asset controls are all needed by the EU, and war gives them those tools.
Zelenskyy is hoping one of these Trump assassination attempts is successful and the U.S. neocons come back into power. The U.S. cannot afford to maintain its hegemony. It was squandered by needless wars and not minding the economic prowess of the U.S. We’ve had crappy leadership more interested in feeding short term profits to our oligarchs than running a long term tight financial ship. If we don’t retrench we’ll implode. The nationalist Ukrainians will have no country if they keep this up. Better to do a deal and live on to fight another day.
They should do the deal but they don’t need to fight another day. If Putin achieves denazification of Ukraine and no has a neutral neighbour without nato troops there then there won’t be any future need to wage war.
And Crimea has always been Russian since the time of Catherine the Great.
Yeah….fat chance that JD Vance would have a different attitude towards Ukraine than Trump currently has.
It’s actually pretty easy: according to all international treaties, Crimea is part of Ukraine. Even Russia has signed that. Establishing that by starting a war against your neighbour and taking their land is now suddenly legal, all hell will break loose on Earth. China will be entitled to Taiwan. Russia will be entitled to Alaska (yes, this is what they are already talking about on their State TV). USA is entitled to Greenland, Canada and Panama. etc. etc. Sounds like a sensible future?
No one has ever been governed by a document. Legal schmegal. Was it legal when the US army was in Mexico City? Was it legal when the US took all of its territory from the indigenous people? The US won’t take Canada because it’s full of fairies. China will eventually gain control over Taiwan. It’s inevitable, and the US can’t stop it.
It’s actually pretty easy: you know jack shit about what you are talking about.
Crimea was illegally transferred to Ukraine by Krusciov (who grew up in Ukraine and had been married to a Ukrainian…), a big part of the Politburo and of the Stavka opposed the move, which was not even legal under the Russian Constitution, but in the end let it happen because it really wasn’t that important back then since both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union.
Still, the condition was that the Russian Oblast (Region) of Crimea was transferred to Ukraine as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Crimea was NEVER a region (oblast) of Ukraine. It’s still written in the Ukrainian Constitution, read it before regurgitating the crap you read in the Western MSM. Ukraine was made up of 24 regions plus the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, which elected its own President and its own Parliament.
And it was Crimea’s President and Parliament who, in line with the UN laws, after the American orchestrated coup in Kiev in 2014 indicted the referendum by which the Crimean people overwhelmingly chose to go back home to the Russian Federation.
If you are worrying about a “sensible future” endangered by breaking international laws just look at what NATO has done to Yugoslavia and it is still doing to the Serbs in Bosnia Erzegovina and Kossovo.
Oh and “Taiwan” ‘s actual name is the Republic of China and it is part of China, it is written in their very own Consitution, after you are done with the Ukrainian Constitution read the Taiwanese one.
It’s just that half of them think that THEY “own” the rest of China and not vice versa…
The other half just wants to go back home and they already would have if not for the usual American meddling. Talk about a “sensible future”…
The squares with green and yellow were always good to have in Monopoly.
Zelensky’s only endgame is to enrich himself as much as possible and get out of this alive in order to enjoy it.
He is and has always been a bought and paid for actor. He has never shown any personal interest in politics nor any political ideology (other than occasionally making fun of the ultranationalists now in power with him) before entering politics (on the order of and with the money of his long time sponsor, Kolomoisky) a year before the election he won.
He has been a puppet of Igor Kolomoisky (a Jewish Ukrainian oligarch, friend of George Soros), then of the Anglo-Americans and now of the British. His personal security detail is not even Ukrainian, what else there is to know…
Anyway, since you are once again dabbling in something you “know” only through the BS the Western MSM feeds you, here is a good time to repeat once again what I have been saying since the very first time (years ago) you wrote about how this war will end in a negotiation which will leave everybody unhappy:
(copied and pasted from my latest form, dating January of this year)
The Anglo-Euro-NATO war to Russia in Ukraine is coming to its natural end: capitulation of the extremist and illegitimate regime put in power by the Americans in 2014.
My wife, who is from the Donbas where we also have an apartment in one of its major cities, has a bottle of spumante ready.
The US-Russia negotiations will be around the new security architecture (basically a new Yalta) asked for by Putin for the last time at the end of 2021, in the face of ever growing NATO expansion and Anglo-American “color revolutions” and destabilizing terrorist activities.
The US-Russia negotiations will not be about Ukraine, Trump is clearly positioning himself to be able to drop Ukraine like the used condom that it is and walk away nominally leaving this failed project to the deranged EUropeans and the even more deranged Brits, which is totally fine by Putin since today’s NATO, against a peer adversary, has proved to be a paper tiger, NATO without the US is a wet paper tiger and everybody of real consequence around the world now knows it…
All of Trump’s moves (Canada, Greenland, Ukraine, tariffs etc etc) show that he is aware of the realities of the new “multipolar” world and of the failing USA and he is seeking to carve up and consolidate the best zone of influence possible for a much scaled down US and he will reach some agreement with the other two (re)emerging super-powers: Russia and China.
It’s pretty simple. The longer the war goes on the more territory Z is going to lose. Next up is Odessa which will land lock the country. The poll results by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology are a joke. Z controls all information in Ukraine. How many from the Russian occupied areas were polled?
This is the 2010 Ukrainian election map. It makes clear who supports Russia and who supports the EU. The US instigated a coup in 2014 that over threw democratically elected Yanokovych. That was the start of the war in the Donbass between the people who favored Russia and the people who favored joining the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election#/media/File:2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election,_second_round.svg
Trump’s not going to help Ukraine. Trump is destroying NATO, he stopped arming Ukraine, he’s damaging trust in America worldwide, and has harmed the American economy as he extorts law firms, universities, billionaires and media companies who he sues. It’s appalling…and what’s more appalling is Republicans in Congress are doing nothing about it. We’ve got an active felon and lifelong criminal in the White House seizing power and pissing on the Constitution. The time to remove him is now. Republicans will be seen as collaborating with Trump’s “dictatorship” in the 2026 election. Trump doesn’t have the constitutional power to advance his tariffs. He’s a dangerous blowhard and pscyhopath seizing power. The people supporting Trump are dangerous, stupid and blind.
Fuck NATO. It’s no longer a “defensive alliance” if it ever had been. It’s an expeditionary force of the American empire. The US has been getting invaded for decades and I’ve never seen any Estonians or Polacks helping out on our border with Mexico.
The only time NATO article 5 was enacted was after 9/11. Estonians, Polacks etc. joined the US in Afganistan, Iraq, Syria, multiple African countries, etc.
Border with Mexico is not NATO’s to care about as long as Mexico does not invade the US militarily.
NATO in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, multiple African countries. You didn’t specify NATO destroying Libya, but either way, you’re making my point.
The only time in NATO’s history the article 5 should have actually been invoked was the destruction of NordStream (by all international laws and treaties an act of war and a legitimate reason for the declaration of war) and it wasn’t.
NATO has only ever been used by the Anglo-Americans to illegally attack and destroy all of those countries plus a European country, Yugoslavia, and it is now being used to destroy another one by helping its illegitimate government which the Americans put in power, Ukraine.
“Defensive” my ass… FUCK NATO.
@Jeff….Can we all assume that you did not vote for Trump in 2024?
You say – “destroying NATO” like it’s a bad thing.
No Ukraine leader could keep their job by accepting Russian annexation of any territory. An overwhelming majority of Ukrainians are unwilling to compromise on this. There is a fair number (but not majority) of Ukrainians willing to accept they cannot recover occupied land by force for the sake of a ceasefire, but this is very different from accepting annexation.
More importantly, most Ukrainians believe that Russia will only keep a ceasefire for a short while, as it rebuilds the military, before further invasion until it’s maximalist aims are achieved. Thus, in the Ukrainian view, any ceasefire that does not include security guarantees sufficient to deter future invasions are pointless, and it is better to just keep fighting right now since they will only be in a weaker position in the future if Russia continues invading after a period when they have no serious way to build up a greater deterrence.
Let’s put it another way, the ONLY thing that really matters for Ukraine is having a security guarantee as a part of any ceasefire, which is sufficiently credible to deter any future thoughts of Russian invasion. Short of that, there is no reason for Ukraine to agree to anything. If the US, or anyone else, was offering hundreds of billions in armaments, and a hundred thousand boots on the ground, Ukraine might well agree to anything, including recognition of Russian annexation.
Who gives a F what the Ukrainians think? Americans aren’t going in there and we’re low on arms to send. Besides, Ukraine’s army is running out of men. Russia’s going to do what it wants to do. Ukraine had the chance in Istanbul in 2022 to keep the Donbas nominally part of Ukraine. Instead of taking that deal, dumb ass Zelensky thought he could retake Crimea and the Donbas. Then last year Putin offered to end the war if Ukraine would cede Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson. Again, dumb ass Zelensky wanted to keep fighting. (What does he care about a bunch of Christian Slavs?) So now Russia will probably take Kharkov, Sumy and eventually Odessa. Macron thinks he’ll send French troops from Romania into Odessa. They’ll be met with hyperbaric blasts on the way. The sooner the US cuts off the Ukraine entirely, the sooner they’ll surrender and save some of their men from death.
BTW, America is NOT low on arms. What has been sent to Ukraine are the arms ready to be replaced and recycled. What do you think costs American taxpayer more: recycling old arms in the USA or “recycling” them in Ukraine???
I appreciate you admitting that the US hasn’t been helping Ukraine so much as using them to “weaken Russia” (Lloyd Austin) while recycling outmoded weaponry. Nothing says “love” as much as sending someone into battle with our old shit. Kind of like what King David did to Uriah.
Penny Pritzker read up on that.
Not at all.
The US has been sending BOTH old stuff which they don’t really need (example: old expired Javelins and Stingers), old stuff which they have plenty of and is still in use (example: IFVs, APCs, general mobility vehicles, tanks) and new stuff which is actually in active service (JDAMs, M777s, HI-MARS, ATACMSs, NASAMSs), up to the very best and most expensive stuff they have (example: Patriot PAC-3s). Some of the things they have been sending were not only in active service but they were also out of production and literally irreplaceable.
And the exact same is true for the rest of NATO, which is at this point literally running out of stuff to send even as they grow more desperate to help (help destroy Ukraine, that is)…
Russia has been demilitarizing Ukraine and the whole of NATO.
Mish cares what Ukrainians think. He asked what Zelensky’s endgame is. Ukrainians could be barking mad, but as best I can tell, this is what they (and Zelensky) think. You might think Ukrainians are crazy and delusional, but if you are trying to understand why they react to proposals the way they do it helps to try and understand how they think.
Thanks for the effort to write this. The only thing to add is that Ukraine would not be Russia’s end goal. Mobilizing all Ukrainian men would be just the beginning of the next stage when the combined army would be directed further West.
Again, this is being discussed openly on their State TV – no need to call this a consipiracy theory.
Russia mobilizing Ukrainians to use in an invasion of NATO countries to rebuild the Soviet territory??!!???
There is one state owned national t.v. network in Russia which operates five national channels. There are five national private t.v. networks, plus six hundred privately owned regional t.v. networks.
In all those thousand or so networks of varying size, there may well have been some nutter talking as you suggest. But Russia’s policy in Ukraine for the last three going on to four years has been the exact opposite of what you describe.
The “private” channels are the ones whose reporters get 15 years in Siberia if they report anything not in line with the State TV. So no difference there in reporting.
Which may be why Germany is now willing to start deploying troops outside the country.
His end game is an Oreshnik missile on his head, or life in London and Miami.