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The Difficultly in Untangling Ukraine Propaganda Means We Have More of It

Hybrid War Already Started 

The Wall Street Journal reports Hybrid War Already Started

U.S. officials are warning that Russia could be about to attack Ukraine. For many citizens in this embattled country, the assault has already begun.

Ukrainian officials say that Russia, which has positioned more than 100,000 troops around three sides of Ukraine, is stepping up a destabilization campaign involving cyberattacks, economic disruption and a new tactic: hundreds of fake bomb threats.

Russian forces and their proxies already control portions of Ukraine and frequent skirmish with government forces. The aim of Moscow’s intensifying hybrid campaign, Ukrainian officials say, is to weaken their country and sow panic, potentially provoking discontent and protests of the kind Russia fomented in eastern Ukraine in 2014 to justify its interventions there. U.S. and U.K. officials said last month they uncovered coup plots intended to install a puppet pro-Russian government.

The WSJ headline says a hybrid war has started. The first sentence says Russia “could” be ready to attack Ukraine. The third paragraph says Russians and their proxies already control portions of Ukraine.

What portions? Where? Who are the proxies? 

Now the US claims Ukrainian lawmaker and television channel owner, Yevhen Murayev, is a potential puppet ruler who could be installed by the Russians.

What is the basis for that claim? 

No Breakthrough

The Washington Post reports Russia-Ukraine tensions high as Biden-Putin call fails to yield a breakthrough

President Biden will speak to Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky by phone Sunday as Western allies scramble to deter a possible Russian attack on Ukraine, as Moscow intensifies its pressure on NATO allies and Kyiv.

Zelensky’s spokesman Sergii Nykyforov confirmed the Biden-Zelensky call Sunday in a comment on Facebook. The Ukrainian president, seeking to avoid panic and damage to his country’s economy, has played down fears of an imminent Russian invasion and has shown irritation at increasingly dire U.S. warnings.

After the call between President Biden and Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Saturday produced no breakthrough, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will take his turn at averting a Russian invasion with meetings in Kyiv and Moscow.

Scholz, who has faced criticism that his government is not doing enough to support Ukraine, is due to meet Zelensky in Kyiv on Monday and with Putin in Moscow on Tuesday.

Stoking Panic 

The Times of Israel reports Ukraine leader says warnings of imminent Russian invasion are stoking ‘panic’.

KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Saturday that warnings of an imminent Russian attack on his country were stoking “panic” and demanded to see firm proof of a planned invasion.

Is that accurate? 

It’s hard to assess given WSJ reports that a hybrid war has already started and Russia controls parts of Ukraine. 

It’s unclear if the Journal is referring to Crimea or something else. By the way, Crimea is part of Russia, like it or not.

Ukraine’s Zelensky Wants to Fend Off Russia—and America, Too

Lending credence to the Times of Israel report is this WSJ headline: Ukraine’s Zelensky Wants to Fend Off Russia—and America, Too

With Russian military forces gathering on three sides of Ukraine last month, advisers to President Volodymyr Zelensky urged a low-key response. His top national security adviser, in a cellphone call, counseled him with two words: “Olympian calm.”

The following day, Mr. Zelensky addressed the nation on television and said the threat of war was no greater than any other time since Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded portions of the country in 2014.

Is that accurate? 

If you believe every headline story then:

  • War has started 
  • War is imminent
  • Ukraine demands proof war is imminent
  • Russia already controls portions of Ukraine
  • Odds of war no greater than any time since 2014

Q&A on US Fear Stoking

Q: Is the US stoking fear?
A: Undoubtedly 
Q: Is that helping?

Helping Whom? 

Biden is in a win-win position by escalating fears. 

If Russia invades he gets to say “I told you so.” If Russia doesn’t invade, Biden will claim his diplomacy and sanction threats staved off the invasion.

No Reason to Believe the US State Department

There is no reason anyone should have faith in what the US State Department says.

If anything, some of it is so preposterous you would be wise to discount everything they say.

Here is a video clip in point.

Note that any US allegation can be labeled as “declassified evidence” with no real evidence produced. 

I covered “Alex Jones Territory” in depth in my report Olympian Calm in Ukraine Over Russia Invasion Threat vs US Hype and Panic.

Jake Sullivan, US State Department: “One possible option the Russians are considering, and which we made public today, involves the production of a propaganda video – a video with graphic scenes of false explosions depicting corpses, crisis actors, mourners, and images of destroyed locations, entirely fabricated.”

Reporter This is Alex Jones Territory. What evidence do you have that there is some propaganda film in the making?

It’s All Propaganda Now!

If you believe you know what’s going on, you are mistaken. And the more you believe you know what’s going on, the more you are a pawn in someone else’s game.

There are many reasons the US would lie, Ukraine would lie, and Russia would lie. 

And what should you expect from a pack of liars other than a pack of lies?

Will Russia Invade?

I don’t know, nor do you, and importantly neither does the US state department which is the one and only believable thing they have said in this crisis. 

Four Reasons Russia Won’t Invade

  1. Expense
  2. When people start dying, wars become very unpopular
  3. Russia would not be able to militarily hold Ukraine indefinitely 
  4. If Russia wanted to hold more of Ukraine, it would have done so when it took back Crimea. 

Despite the above rationale, dictators sometimes make very bad choices. If Putin does invade, he will have his reasons for doing so.

Propaganda War Has Started

The WSJ says a hybrid war already started. More accurately, the propaganda war is in full swing.  

Escalating rhetoric does not seem to be helping. 

But there are reasons for escalating propaganda, even if those reasons are no more than a self-serving “I told you so.”

Meanwhile, don’t delude yourself into thinking you know what will happen, because you don’t. 

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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prumbly
prumbly
4 years ago
Remember those Iraqi mobile chemical weapons labs and all the hype and propaganda around them?  Turned out they were ice cream vans.
And the UK’s “yellow cake” Iraq fiction?
blacklisted
blacklisted
4 years ago
You and I don’t know if Russia will “invade”, but insiders do, and if they are moving their money out of Ukraine and Europe. I would bet on the capital flows.  Besides, Putin can acquire the Russian parts of Ukraine in the east without much difficulty, which the US will use to impose sanctions.  Who do the sanctions hurt?  Europe, especially Germany, will freeze to death in a month without Russian gas, and Putin can withhold all of the key elements for semiconductors (https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/russia-ukraine-chips).  
China and Russia grow closer and the Russian people will blame the west, not Putin, who’s favorability ratings are higher than any western leader, which is why the west is begging for Putin to walk in to Ukraine, and why the west will be the one using a false flag.
lamlawindy
lamlawindy
4 years ago
Nice how federal government officials complain about Russian “hybrid war” actions when we do the same thing: the US helped plan & finance the Maidan Revolution.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“No Reason to Believe the US State Department”
It is getting redundant, after no reason to believe the public health agencies.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
The current administration is such a disaster, they’re willing to start WW3 to help their approval ratings.
JoeJohnson
JoeJohnson
4 years ago
The problem is after World War 2 we decided borders cannot be changed unless there unanimous consent. But Turkey invaded Cyprus, Isreal invaded Golan, Falklands are disputed, Crimea was transfered to Ukraine in 1954 by 1 man, should we accept that by a Communist dictator? Should Puerto Rico go back to Spain? Kosovo unilaterally declared independence without Serbia’s consent. We chose to ignore post World War peace and now we will pay for it. Ukraine will never rule Crimea again.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  JoeJohnson
It actually never did!
When has Ukraine been a country? Part of it is Novorussiya (and ethnic Russian), part of it was Polish/Austrian before WW2, the south (Odessa) and the Krim has always mainly Russian/cosmopolitan … there is not much holding it together, and outlawing the Russian language is not a very positive kernal for a crystle to grow.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Webej
The US
became a country when they decided they didn’t want to be part of the British
Empire anymore. The Ukraine has decided it doesn’t want to be in the Russian
Empire anymore either. Denying that the Ukraine doesn’t have to right to exist
when it does exist is a denial of reality. The only way for Russia to get back
the Ukraine would be to conquer it and Russia can’t do that anymore.
Ken Kam
Ken Kam
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
By that logic, why is the Catalonian independence suppressed violently by the EU, with US support?
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Ken Kam
Madrid suppressed it and not the the US. The US doesn’t care one way or the other. Secondly Catalonia was not already independent from Spain while the Ukraine is independent from Russia since the 1990’s and Russia had officially recogonized its independence. Putin in the December 17, 2021article now denies Ukraines’s independence. The situations are not at all alike.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  JoeJohnson
“The problem is after World War 2 we decided borders cannot be changed unless there unanimous consent.”
The rule, of coarse, is a double standard, Just like mask mandates at SOFI stadium are for Mayor Garcetti.
The rule maker gets to break the rules. The serf countries are supposed to comply.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago

Waller
Tweeted this to me in response to my post and I commented back.

 https://twitter.com/MishGEA/status/1493100680118104065

Webej
Webej
4 years ago
The whole hybrid meme is itself a PsyOp.
There are very few verified facts to guide people’s thoughts.
However, the hope for an insurgency subsequent to an invasion is very unlikely looking at attitudes and demography … it is just a wishful thought. All the wishful thoughts themselves paint a picture, and that picture is that the State Department and the US military have little grasp of reality if they believe any of their own pronouncements.
Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
“The Difficulty in Untangling Ukraine Propaganda…”
Wrong attitude – there is no point in trying to decipher or find hidden meaning in propaganda.  It exists for the purpose of furthering the objectives of its purveyors, nothing more.  All this talk isn’t for the benefit of the general population in the U.S. any more than it is for that of Russia or the Ukraine.
Call_Me_Al
Christoball
Christoball
4 years ago
“Let Putin be Putin” what is it with progressives these days. What a bunch of control freaks. Nothing worth causing a war about. Just like lawyers in a family court room, this should be “I will give you this one, if you give me the next one”. It does not matter how many childrens lives are destroyed. After all, it is for the children.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
The lack of military leadership by Europe is the scariest aspect of Russian threats toward Ukraine.
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
ya,, Biden needs a “win” .
AWC
AWC
4 years ago
Just Beano and Brandon trying to prop up their dismal popularity ratings. As soon as the Russian military exercises are over, the two inept losers will declare that they backed the evil Russia bear down, and saved the world. Then, it’s off to the next tempest in a teapot “crisis.”
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  AWC
Hi Lavrov! I didn’t know you hang out here.
Ken Kam
Ken Kam
4 years ago
Reply to  AWC
Yeah, exactly. One look at the timeline of events shows this is an exercise to prop up Biden’s ratings. August -> Afghan withdrawal disaster. Sept, Oct -> Biden’s ratings plummet. Nov -> Suddenly, ‘Russia will invade Ukraine’ meme starts in the US media, supported by the ever loyal UK (BoJo there also needed a diversion from Partygate’.) Europeans, Ukraine, strenously refute the idea of imminent Russian invasion.
Now Americans have forgotten Afghanistan. Biden looks presidential, hot-shot leader of the free world. Russia is not invading. Biden will claim this is due to his negotiations / sabre rattling. Biden wins in either case. Once his ratings improve, this will die down.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
In the Cold War the USSR had a politburo composed of several powerful figures and the decisions were discussed. Putin’s Russia has such institution. Only one man makes the decisions there and is advised by yes men. No matter how you look at it, the situation is highly unstable.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Correction. Putin’s Russia has NO such institution
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
That Putin has survived this long speaks to his intelligence. Better a Russian Machiavelli, than President Cluster Fudge.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I wouldn’t call him a Machiavelli. He is just a KGB thug working in the classic KGB way.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Putin is evil and Biden is a foreign policy genius. Got it!
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I have never praised Biden at all in any comments past or present so I could not have said that he is a genius. You are the one who said that. On the other hand I do see Putin as a KGB thug because he is. You may admire him but I don’t.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Biden has become too pathetic to be thug, Deep State though is FULL of it !   In Europe there ‘s an ample list of thug too; lying, conniving cheating, laughing in the face stabbing in the back thug, which is even worse …Like I said the list is endless we could start with your would be emperor Macron, stupid Boris, corrupt species like von der Leyen  and many other EU thug, and then last but not least criminal  NATO Thug with capital T ….Putin may be thug too, yet at least he s straightforward and no fn hypocrite like our corrupt doublecrossers are !
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
ain’t no machievelli.   just an old style czar.   a thug.   machievelli wrote a great how to manual using guile.   putin crushes skulls since 90s oligarchs were raping the old soviet empire.     i’d thing Czar Putin more appropriate.   the russian people have always been abused as slaves and serfs.    unfortunately.   
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
A lot of truth in cultural mentality as a big factor; however, I give Putin credit for surviving this long. Plus, he taunts the US, equal to anything on Olympus. As in WW2, in a war with China, Russia is the essential ally (on either side).
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Only one man makes the decisions there”
It was Biden that made the decision to remove all troops from Afghanistan. The President is the decider in chief.
The situation has been decidedly unstable in Ukraine since some outsider decided to overthrow Yanukovich. Do you know who that outsider was? It wasn’t Putin.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
The President can’t decide alone what to do with the military whenever he wants. It doesn’t work that way. There are many counterforces within the administration and Congress so to act he needs to have them on his side. Putin on the other hand has dictorial powers because he is a dictator. He has no rivals anymore and all power is in his hands. As for the Ukraine, have you heard of the Budapest Momorandum? Russia broke that written agreement when he invaded the Ukraine. Russia is the agressor and everybody knows it. China would just love to see Russians getting killed in the Ukraine. With Russia weakened China will just walk over the Far East border and take it from you. Putin is a patsy.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“The President can’t decide alone what to do with the military whenever he wants. It doesn’t work that way.”
So Putin can’t just do what he wants, all the time.
“Russia is the agressor and everybody knows it.”
That is certainly what the propagandists want everybody to believe. But he didn’t overthrow Yanukovich.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
You keep harping on yanukovich when the real problem for Russia is that it’s former vassals do not want to be tied to Russia again ever. Time to get over it and move on. 
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
4 years ago
Tiny data point: I play a sport with some Ukrainians and Russians. In the last few years I’ve asked a couple of them, “What’s going on with U and R?” The answers were along the lines of “Pffft. It’s just fighting between billionaires. Putin, Biden, etc.: They are all billionaires.” These were guys who had moved to the US or elsewhere, and were, I would guess, never planning to move back.
Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
Reply to  Felix_Mish
Goes back a century (or more, one could argue) – all wars are bankers’ wars. 
As with the Christmas Truce in WWI, the people at the bottom have no beef with eachother.
Call_Me_Al
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
I imagine a lot of the reason Biden is sabre rattling is because his family owes plenty to the Oligarchs who control the country. We know for a fact Hunter Biden got a lot of money from the Ukraine and was peddling influence there. Obviously they are calling in their debt by asking Biden to pledge US support again Russia. My guess is that if they weren’t in the pockets of the Ukrainians that the US would not be saber rattling anywhere near the degree they are right now.
The rest of Europe most seems consigned to the fact that if Russia wants to invade, let them and who really cares since it’s not their war or their country. Only the US seems to really care and again it’s because the Bidens are knee deep in Ukraine.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
If this were true, would Zelensky be denying the possibility of a Russian invasion?
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I agree. And our insane stance on Nordstream 2 backs this up.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
The only thing we can say is we will see. In the meantime it is doing a number on an already fragile market.
carmensandiegoalive
carmensandiegoalive
4 years ago
The legacy American national political media and press (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CPB, NPR, the Bezos POST, the TIMES (NY and LA) as well as the bulk of the newer social media enterprises have fused with the Democratic Party and function only to promulgate the propaganda of the Democratic Party and to shape conversations to the effect that the propaganda is most productive.
Curious, is it not, that today’s propaganda is
*perhaps not an actual invasion, but merely some bomb threats and hacking.*
This following feverish and frenzied admonitions to
*run, now, the tanks are coming, save yourself!*
What’s next:
*Those evil Russians tricked us into thinking they were starting a war?*
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
There is a lot to be said for cynicism when you read statements like “Russia could be about to attack Ukraine.”
Russia could be about to do lots of things. This is trash journalism, speculation at its worst, and purporting to be news.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
You can include the federal government in the fusion. The federal government, democratic party, and the mainstream media ex fox have become one unit.
LostNOregon
LostNOregon
4 years ago
I guess I would trust this information more if we hadn’t launched wars against other nations on fabricated evidence. In this case,  the US is reaping the benefits of all the earlier lies.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  LostNOregon
Strangely, has Jake Sullivan presented any real proof of his claims? Any sat photos etc of Russians preparing to attack?  Serious buildup of troops, equipment, supplies, reserve troops, aircraft, etc.  Or is the whole thing just exercises near the border?
yooj
yooj
4 years ago

Expense – Putin could not care less about personal or national wealth, except to the extent he needs it to maintain power. Putin can maintain his power by force now.  He can let Russians starve for a while, a long while if necessary. Empire for honor and glory,  not balance sheet. 

When people start dying, wars become very unpopular – The population will abide lots of dying as long as it believes its  side is winning. For empire for honor and glory, people will bleed themselves.   Just have to win. 

Russia would not be able to militarily hold Ukraine indefinitely –  Russia could install a puppet government to rule indefinitely if there is sufficient support for Russia in Ukraine. Russia can conquer. Conquering is not obsolete.  USSR in Afghanistan is inapposite. Zero indigenous support for USSR.  In Ukraine, with carrot and stick, Russia could find sufficient minority support to enable it to successfully suppress a sizeable majority opposition. 

If Russia wanted to hold more of Ukraine, it would have done so when it took back Crimea.  U.S. could have taken Baghdad after liberating Kuwait (liberty and Kuwait ?), but did not until later. Israel could have taken and occupied the West Bank in 1948 but didn’t until 1967. Similar arguments for and against, but different decisions.  More, Putin has consolidated power internally and the west has become more divided. Can’t read too much into the scope of Putin’s first invasion.  That was then and soon it will be now. 

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  yooj
“U.S. could have taken Baghdad after liberating Kuwait (liberty and Kuwait ?), but did not until later.”  Didn’t Colin Powell call that one, ashamed of US battlefield superiority and the high enemy death toll?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Meanwhile, don’t delude yourself into thinking you know what will happen, because you don’t.
We can go by based on what’s happen so far. Putin has lined up his troops for a probable invasion of Ukraine. This didn’t start yesterday. Putin has been directly interfering in all things Ukraine since the mid 2000s. Read the book Sandworm for a better understanding of how the lights got turned out in Ukraine back in 2014. It is so short-sighted to only look at “recent headlines”. This is exactly what Putin is counting on.
Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
Is it Victoria Nuland, if I remember well, who claimed that USA had used billions of dollars, which finally did lead Ukrain to Maidan coup ?
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Maybe you should refresh your memory or at least check some unbiased sources before posting utter nonsense  !   THE FN US of A ORCHESTRATED A FN COUP IN UKRAINE in 2014 !  …leading to the present impasse …  The US of A is a fn warmonger, WAR has in fact become  your one and  ONLY export product ! ….apart from some far too expensive LNG you want to push through our throats….
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
Putin loves to use that excuse to do what he wants to do. Remember the Budapest Memorandum, signed in 1994 by the US, the UK, the Ukraine and Russia guaranteeing Ukrainian security and their borders in exchange of the Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons?
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Putin loves to use that excuse to do what he wants to do. Remember the
Budapest Memorandum, signed in 1994 by the US, the UK, the Ukraine and
Russia guaranteeing Ukrainian security and their borders in exchange of
the Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons?”
Yanukovich was overthrown by someone other than Putin in 2014. Ukrainian security died when that occurred and it wasn’t Putin’s fault. That someone else overthrew Yanukovich, lead to Russia annexing Crimea and the conflict in the Donbass.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
How quickly they forget the military-industrial-political complex?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I got no beef with that. Putin is the problem. He has been looking for a way to draw the US into a conflict for a long time. He saw the Berlin wall crumble from his KGB office in East Germany and he has taken methodical steps since then to exact revenge on the United States. 
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
The same could be said for the USA, drawing Russia into conflict,  if you free yourself of national bias.
Ken Kam
Ken Kam
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Impressive buildup indeed! With doctored phtotos. See the reality here:
And more of the same ‘cry wolf’ by the Americans for over 8 years! :
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
As usual, sounds a lot like someone who works for the state department would say.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
4 years ago
Just assume that the exact opposite of everything that comes from Government and legacy media is the truth, and you will be fine.
AWC
AWC
4 years ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
Ah, yes, Saul Alinsky still lives,,,, in the DNC. 
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Unnamed US officials reporting unnamed Ukrainian officials reporting stories on Facebook. Credibility is sub-zero, like the Fed’s real interest rate.
If true, war is on the horizon. If false, the US looks stupid. At the end of the day, it is an indictment of the Biden Administration and the State Department.

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