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Shutdown Update: Millions Unpaid, Air Traffic Disruptions, Day 34

The government shutdown is on day 34. A new record will be set this week.

Airline Disruptions

The New York Times reports Staff Shortages at 35 Air Traffic Control Sites Disrupt Travel

The growing problems unfolded just days after the controllers missed their first full paycheck because of the shutdown, after receiving a partial paycheck two weeks ago. The missed pay period appeared to prompt the union representing controllers to take the rare step of endorsing one party’s preferred approach to ending the impasse.

“Congress must pass a clean continuing resolution (CR) to immediately end the government shutdown, ensure that all individuals who have not been paid during this prolonged closure receive their compensation, and then engage in bipartisan negotiations on other pressing issues facing our nation,” Nick Daniels, the president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, said in a statement Friday afternoon.

“The impact is growing over time with more ground delay programs due to staffing,” said Michael McCormick, a professor of air traffic management at Embry‑Riddle Aeronautical University. “But I do not see any signs of organized activity for a slowdown.”

Millions Unpaid

Yahoo!Finance reports Government Shutdown Leaves Millions Unpaid. Here’s How Banks Are Helping

About 1.4 million federal employees have gone without at least one paycheck, according to the Bipartisan Policy Center.

Banks such as Citibank, Capital One, Wells Fargo, and others are encouraging federal employees whose paychecks have been disrupted by the government shutdown to call to request assistance. Impacted employees can contact their bank or credit card issuer by calling the number on the back of their card.

Altered Furlough Notices to 650,000 Employees

The Government Executive reports Employees are receiving renewed furlough notices without pay guarantees.

To maintain clarity between shutdown furloughs and more permanent and planned cost-saving measures, notices are required to go out every 30 days. The current funding lapse entered its 31st day on Friday—and could next week surpass the record-setting, 35-day impasse from 2018-2019—which required a fresh, formal update from agencies letting around 650,000 employees know they should remain at home without working. 

The new notices largely included the same boilerplate language as the originals that went out at the outset of the shutdown, those from several agencies viewed by Government Executive showed, with one notable difference: they no longer contained language assuring employees that back pay was guaranteed when the shutdown concluded. 

The new notices largely included the same boilerplate language as the originals that went out at the outset of the shutdown, those from several agencies viewed by Government Executive showed, with one notable difference: they no longer contained language assuring employees that back pay was guaranteed when the shutdown concluded. 

“The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 provides that employees shall be paid for the period of the lapse in appropriations ends,” read a General Services Administration furlough notice sent on Oct. 1. 

“As soon as possible after the appropriations lapse ends, you will be paid for the period of the lapse in appropriations, in accordance with 31 U.S.C. § 1341(c) and other applicable laws,” read another from the Interior Department. 

In both cases, and all others reviewed by Government Executive, that language was removed. 

Shortly after the shutdown began, as Government Executive first reported, the Office of Management and Budget deleted from its guidance any reference to the 2019 law or back pay for furloughed federal workers. OMB subsequently released new legal guidance suggesting Congress must take legislative action to authorize back pay. 

In federal court this week in a case regarding layoffs, a Justice Department attorney also contradicted the White House’s new argument.

“We’re dealing with a class of employees who are furloughed, who are not working on specific government actions,” said Michael Velchik, the Justice lawyer. “They’re incurring future obligations to the federal taxpayer, who will then have to pay back pay wages for these individuals who are not working.”

The total the government would have to pay employees for not working could reach unprecedented heights next week. The Senate adjourned on Thursday and is not set to reconvene until Monday evening, when no vote to reopen government is scheduled. The House remains on recess indefinitely after Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., canceled votes for the seventh consecutive week next week.

Shutdown Record Guaranteed

The record 35-day shutdown from 2018-2019 will be broken this week.

The Senate has no votes scheduled and the House is not even in session.

On October 30, I noted Trump Wants to End the Shutdown, Tells Senate Republicans to Kill the Filibuster

In a post on Truth Social, Trump wants to end the government shutdown by getting rid of the filibuster.

However, there are not enough votes to kill the filibuster even though a rule change would only take 51.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune (R., S.D.), Thom Tillis (R., N.C.), Lisa Murkowski (R., Alaska), John Cornyn (R., Texas) and James Lankford (R., Okla.) have all said no to ending the filibuster.

If all the rest said yes, there would only be 48 votes.

Q: What’s this really about?
A: Democrats extended subsidies to those making up to 400 percent of the poverty level. They want to keep those subsidies.

Although Democrats are OK with funding illegal immigrants, the battle is primarily over subsidies to 24 million (and growing) people.

For more details, please see Q&A: Obamacare Big Price Hikes Coming. What’s the Shutdown Really About?

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Mish

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108 Comments
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Avery2
Avery2
6 months ago

Anyone here reporting from a major airport this morning?

Six000MileYear
Six000MileYear
6 months ago

18 more days until the continuing resolution is replaced by formal budget negotiations. Then things get delayed even more because the budget is so much larger. How many air traffic controllers are going to call in sick during Thanksgiving and cause travel delays / cancellations?

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago

I see NO reason why the cost of air traffic controllers is NOT included in every ticket price. Get the g’damned government out of it since they clearly have little to offer when dealing with the union. WHo knows; privatizing air traffic control might even reduce costs.

Also, those people who are NOT on Obama Care have seen their premiums go up, or their cost of medical services go up, if not insured. They live with it and make adjustments else where.

Politicians need a lesson in living within a budget based on the taxes actually collected. That is their job! Instead, they pass laws with huge implications in the future. A rule that limits any multi-year plan to the current TERM would be a good start. Then, renew it if justified, and finance it again, from current revenues.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
InMyRoom
InMyRoom
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

As insurance premiums increase for companies, employees pay higher rates. However, the company is paying some portion of the insurance premium – this is a subsidy.

dtj
dtj
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

The crappy working conditions of air traffic controllers is why there’s a shortage of them despite supposedly “great pay”.

But yeah, privatize them with non-union workers who will be paid even less with worse conditions. See how that works out.

JeffD
JeffD
6 months ago

“Democrats extended subsidies to those making up to 400 percent of the poverty level. They want to keep those subsidies.”

Mish, they extended subsidies to people making over 400% of Federal Poverty Level (FPL). Subsidies have been available to people making up to 400% of FPL since day one when the program was enacted. I think you meant to say they increased the level of subsidies to people making up to 400%.

Last edited 6 months ago by JeffD
pete3397
pete3397
6 months ago

So, what this really says is that air traffic control needs to be privatized.

Also, I thought the big selling point for Obamacare was that it was going to lower healthcare costs for the American people and that the need for subsidies would be minimal. Yet, here we are. Another government intervention yields another government failure. And extending the subsidies to 400% of the poverty line? That’s proof that Obamacare has not reduced healthcare costs one bit. The call for such subsidies is an outright admission of failure.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  pete3397

And two MORONS down-voted you!

Obama Care was another very deliberate dependency builder–recipients will always vote Demo-fat.

FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  pete3397

Medical services and goods inflation is the bane of all healthcare for the advanced countries in addition to pent up demand from the Boomers.

The rational decision is increase the number of medical schools, increase competition amongst Big Pharma, increase in the US non profit hospitals, increase taxes on the wealthy, a single payer plan in the US but allow private insurance for the wealthy so they can be taxed on it, reducing the redundancy of MRI, CAT scan and other machines that lay idle in a city, etc.

There are a host of other initiatives that can help bring down the cost of medicine but probably the best is rationing at this juncture so everyone can receive a modicum of good, quality healthcare. The Canadian system has solved their problems per opinion polls from Canadians through rationing of non emergency procedures and distributing a qualitative healthcare system for its citizens, immigrants and residents.

Neal
Neal
6 months ago

Can the air traffic controllers blacklist those politicians who refuse the clean vote to force the issue without disrupting the general public with a strike?
Perhaps their union should notify the airlines as well as private charter operators that any aircraft with such politicians onboard won’t get clearance to take off. Force them to drive, take a bus or train. Imagine Pelosi trying to get from California to anywhere without flying first class with her booze habit, oh the horror.

Wisdom Seeker
Wisdom Seeker
6 months ago
Reply to  Neal

If only we had a constitutional clause (amendment needed) that Congress is not allowed to get paid or to avail itself of any Federally supported infrastructure (would include air travel) if they have failed to perform their constitutionally mandated function of passing appropriations bills…

Neal
Neal
6 months ago
Reply to  Wisdom Seeker

Sounds nice in theory but sleaze always finds a way to ooze around restrictions. Most Congresscritters (both parties) don’t rely on their salary so not getting it for a few weeks means nothing to them when they are mostly millionaires from insider trading. Any that are hurt would be the few honest ones.
And at the presidential level the last honest one was Jimmy Carter

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Neal

The insider issue is easy to fix–all politicians and families, must list the sale or all securities on a PUBLIC website, two business days before it takes effect.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
Neal
Neal
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

Not so easy. Can you compel a non elected person such as a spouse or other relative to breech their constitutional rights to privacy and their rights to refuse unreasonable search and seizures? And how do you define their family when many couples (normal and queer) have not formally married?
Plus what’s to stop them using shell companies, offshore entities etc to hide what is going on? It’s not as if they are honest to start with.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Wisdom Seeker

They will pass this stuff regardless of the cost. You still lose.

Add, all appropriations for the budgeting period must not exceed last year’s total tax collections.

If congress wants to fund free public transportation for illegal immigrants, for example, it must make cuts elsewhere, or bring in additional revenue.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
gary stegen
gary stegen
6 months ago

The ACA premium figure is interesting, but it is not clear if the premiums are before any credit for the subsidy, or do they include the credit for the subsidy? Using the data as presented I calculate a compound rate of increase of about 1.8% per year (2018-2026) for the gold plans and 4 % for the silver and bronze. These seem pretty reasonable. One strange feature is that the silver plans are about the cost as gold. Why would anyone buy silver plan?

Flavia
Flavia
6 months ago
Reply to  gary stegen

The gold plans may have a higher deductible.

BenW
BenW
6 months ago

I would love to see the Schumer shutdown last through the week of Thanksgiving.

Hell, we might get a J6 v2.0.

Fortunately, Chucky will capitulate before then. 33 down with 3 to go to break the record.

Outstanding answer from TACO when asked about whether or not deportations have gone far enough. The man keeps smacking down these reporters.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  BenW

Grovel more, maybe daddy will notice and be your special friend.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  BenW

Stop baiting the bonobos.They really believe dependency on the government is a good thing.

Wisdom Seeker
Wisdom Seeker
6 months ago

From what I’ve read and seen, Congress is waiting for 2 things:

(1) Tomorrow’s election results

(2) for this to become the longest shutdown in U.S. history.

After that they will be able to say “we made our point” and segue to “it’s time to find a compromise.” I give 50/50 odds that they get it done by Friday 11/7, otherwise 11/14.

If they don’t have this sorted out soon, their re-election chances all start to go up in smoke, regardless of party.

There’s absolutely no way this continues past 11/20 because that’s the start of the massive Thanksgiving travel week and if the air travel system is unfunded at that point, all hell breaks loose among their campaign contributors.

I don’t think the Senators actually care all that much about SNAP or minor differences in medical benefits for illegals, quasi-illegals or “up to 400% of poverty line” citizens. Those are little people, easily spun with new propaganda.

Not cynical, just common-sense realistic.

BenW
BenW
6 months ago
Reply to  Wisdom Seeker

I definitely agree with #2 but hadn’t thought about #1 which does make sense.

Schumer wants to get a feel for how far left NYC has gone.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Wisdom Seeker

Wait until the next economic downturn, when there is blood in the streets. Then, they will all become Rand Paul.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

Three days without food. The American empire is already toast, three days without food and America will be toast.

Jafo
Jafo
6 months ago

Fish rots from the head! what could go wrong when you hide your grades and your taxes

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Jafo

If the ‘hide your grades’ refers to Obama, you actually mean his college transcripts. Does anyone really care if he had a B- average? Even a C-? NO! Would they care if he had applied as an Indonesian student?

JohnF
JohnF
6 months ago

“Global Elite Controlling Oligarchs” = ‘Epstein’ Group

If the Epstein Files Are Fully Released (Including Video’s), They’ll Expose U.S. Presidents, Politicians, Royals, Billionaires, and Global Puppet Masters, Etc.!

We’re talking about the richest, most powerful elites on Earth—U.S. presidents, ex-presidents, royalty, tech billionaires, Wall Street kingpins, …

Last edited 6 months ago by JohnF
Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  JohnF

This is fantasy on your part, aka conspiracy theory.

For the insider view of how mutually assured blackmail ‘might’ work, read DC, the Dark City. It is purported to be an insider view, and fiction, yet there are too many similarities to real people.

A warning in advance: it’s so disgusting it might not be fiction.

.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago

This mornings farmer coffee meeting was quite the shitstorm of verbal attacks on democrats. They are convinced that this is about giving subsidized healthcare to illegal immigrants. All of them watch Fox and are really struggling financially with the increased costs and low crop prices. Even though they connect the logic chain to Trumps tariffs they only connect it until the conclusion that it is actually his fault. Then they defy logic and support him. They remind me of beaten wives.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Stockholm syndrome. And this is your little heaven on earth huh?

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

They represent one facet of this jewell like place where I hide behind forest and field. Even if the world came apart, it would be pretty safe and with the exception of a nuclear exchange, I’d be good with these guys and other neighbors and friends. Regardless of their failed politics these farmers are nice hard working people that I respect in many other ways. A Diamond with an inclusion is still a diamond.

Enjoy!

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Trump worked for them: they got soybean orders and subsidies. The gov was shut down for Obamacare, illegal immigrants, Chuck(a jew) Mamdani (Muslim Bros), Bernie and AOC (radical left): that’s an explosive combo. U, Mr Porsche, an outlier.

Last edited 6 months ago by Michael Engel
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Trump worked for Qatar too, giving them Idaho. I’m sure Qatar will build a big beautiful mosque with call to prayer sounding 5 times day. Trump helping make the caliphate shine from sea to sea. Idaho to Michigan to New York.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

yes !

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

The alternative might be finding a middle ground and trying to be even-handed. Oh fudge! Believe the worst of everybody you don’t agree with.

However, I remember the opinions shared here during ‘RussiaGate.’ Every Trump hater then was convinced he was an evil conspirator in league with Putin. The same people later thought Biden was one of the best presidents ever. Not one ever admitted they were 100% wrong.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
Avery2
Avery2
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Go to the lumber yard section of the Menards in the Chicago suburb of Bridgeview on a Friday afternoon. Been like that for 25+ years, long before your buddy Trump came along.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
6 months ago
Reply to  Avery2

I am well aware of the demographic changes, I alone frequently point them out here. The point was that Trump was supposed to change all that and he’s now enabling it even further.

Won’t matter to me either way, exit strategy on deck.

FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

So Trump on Liberation Day promised that China would lose to the US through tariffs and the US’ overall strengths in its economy, China needed the US more than the US needed China, etc. Fast forward to last Friday and Trump didn’t get squat. In fact he lost because he went to China first to have the meeting to get American farmers off his back. He who asks to renew talks first loses. Wasn’t that in the Art of the Deal or words to that effect?

China then double-downed and told the Liar-In-Chief that they will review the agreement in a year, which hedge fund manager masquerading as the secretary of the treasury agreed to.

Translation: Trump and the US are on probation, then in a year China may or may not advance trade talks.

In other words, the US has almost no leverage. Trump brought a knife to a gun fight. Some negotiator this president is. But what did one that reviewed his prior track-record as the 45th president or his four, five or six time bankruptcies as a hotel and casino owner, airlines owner, Trump steaks purveyor and Trump College educator think would happen?

China is winning not only the trade war but also the geopolitical, geoeconomics competition between the two largest economies in the world.

US leadership since Bush II has been lacking. Instead of strategizing and planning to counterbalance China’s rise through corporate subsidies with a ROI, improving education results, reducing the defense budget, increasing the budget on science and R&D, raising tariffs where there is limited blowback on the US, improving the US infrastructure, balancing the economy to increase the income to widen the middle class and working classes, bupkis has happened that would make a difference. .

Why has this happened? Because the .1% and the top 1% want it that way. They don’t care about the middle class and the working class. In fact, they consider them a nuisance that they’ve had to tolerate because they had to but now they think they don’t because they are no longer a threat.

TBD if they are correct in their assessment.

Last edited 6 months ago by FDR
Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago
Reply to  FDR

China lost this rd, but they might win down the road ===> TNX 8%/10%.

FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Please explain how Trump will win?

It will take the US ten years at minimum to replace China’s rare earth minerals and more importantly their processing techniques that the rest of the world is dependent upon for tech, automobiles, defense, etc.

Xi is holding a full house to Trump’s aces and eights or dead man’s hand…

Avery2
Avery2
6 months ago
Reply to  FDR

Sometimes nothing can be a real Cool Hand.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  FDR

More like Quad Aces against Trumps high card 9 hand.
86/47 I’m sure he can’t play poker for S—.

CzarChasm Reigns
CzarChasm Reigns
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

The value of propaganda should not be overestimated:

A paltry $787.5 million settlement for Colorado-based Dominion…
which will only be $590 million or so after a tax write-off…
enabled Fox to broadcast the BIG LIE until it was embedded into viewers minds.

Rogerroger
Rogerroger
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Frosty a friend of mine once enlightened me. People have a hard time admitting they are wrong. They have to own it and thats a hard pill to swallow.
You should pull up the aca web site and show where it’s worded they cant.
I have friends that still believe in the election fraud. I hammer it home. Like this. You mean to tell me. 5 years of searching. top lawyers cant find any evidence/ no one spilling the beans. No evidence on computers etc. man those dem must be a lot smarter than you think. Maybe you better vote dems.
Same with hunter. Trump had 2 senators on him in the first term. What six years. Nothing but hunters own drug issues.

Neal
Neal
6 months ago
Reply to  Rogerroger

You forgot his Burisma issues, his tax issues, his lying to get a firearm and his need to get his daddy to give him a pardon.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Neal

Everyone knows Hunter was totally innocent. It wasn’t even his laptop; plus there’s that chain of custody thing, and a bunch of spy people okayed it.

At the same time, Demofats fill their diapers dreaming of the **Epstein Files**, never thinking that if there was evidence in the ‘files’ they would use it BEFORE the election.

Was there election fraud in 2020? Well, it depends. If you include Obama’s interference in 2016–and the subsequent FRAUDULENT impeachment. In 2024, it was biased mass media that enabled Biden to win. Eg: ‘pre-election polls overstated Biden’s lead over Donald Trump.’ And of course, there’s Biden’s mental state–hidden until people had to be dumb not to see it. Election fraud?

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

The least important person in the “Epstein Files” is Trump. I’m much more interested in Congress, former POTUS, SCOTUS and high ranking military participants. All with lots of power and subject to blackmail.

Last edited 6 months ago by Pokercat
Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Neal

What kind of father would Biden have been if he hadn’t pardoned his son for a minor infraction on a gun application? Your kind I guess.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Stupid is supposed to hurt.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago

US gov size: three million. SS paid. The military pd. ICE pd. 3,000,000 minus 650,000 gov workers: pd. Dec rate cut to ease debt payments: 100%. Tariffs, a smaller gov, lower rates, realized gains, payroll taxes, student loans, dems pet projects ==> gov coffer: $2T?? Lower SPX, more rate cuts. No recession during JP term. Guaranty! Thereafter ???

Last edited 6 months ago by Michael Engel
JohnF
JohnF
6 months ago

The Government Is Closed – To Prevent ‘Epstein’ Arrests.!

Lock Her Up (2016) – NO ONE At The Top Gone To
Jail/Prison Yet!

No Audit Of Ft Knox Gold Reserves Yet.!

No Audit Of Pentagon MIC – Trillions Missing.!

No Audit Of FED – Trillions In Bailouts For Too Big To
Fail/Jail Corporations & Banksters.!

Total Debt Over $37 trillion + Adding 4-5 Trillion a
Year + 1.2 trillion Annual Interest Payment.!

“Global Elite Controlling Oligarchs” With Their ‘Mockingbird’ Media System – Want a ‘Civil War’ Between The Public – Rather Than A ‘Revolt’ Against The – “Global Elite Controlling Oligarchs”.!

Last edited 6 months ago by JohnF
Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago
Reply to  JohnF

Trump f**ked the global elite. Last week India defense pact. Next week: al Golani. Mid Nov: MBS ==> Trump Modi silk road is on.

Last edited 6 months ago by Michael Engel
FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Meanwhile, last night on 60 Minutes, Trump didn’t know who he pardoned as the head of Binance. His goes by the initials CZ.

The Trump Family grift on crypto was assisted by CZ.

Did that grift that netted the Trump Family millions of dollars F**k the global elite?

Pay to play….just like Biden. Didn’t Trump also mention that Biden used the autopen to pardon former convicts?

But he f**ked the global elite when Qatar gave him a jet.

He f**cked the global elite when Muskrat and DOGE hoovered up all the public’s records to distribute to Big Tech and Palantir to know our tax, social security, medical records to use against the hot polloi.

Last edited 6 months ago by FDR
Avery2
Avery2
6 months ago
Reply to  FDR

I used to watch it only for Andy Rooney.

BenW
BenW
6 months ago
Reply to  JohnF

Dude, Epstein is so yesterday.

FYI – the annual deficit under Trump’s first partial year when down. How is $1.8T anywhere near $5T?

What are you smoking?

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  BenW

Epstein being dead doesn’t make it ok for your daddy to rape children.

And no, you’re too old.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

How do you know Epstein is dead? The guy was genius level, smart enough for a deadman’s switch. Another giveaway is cremation. The same as Justice Scalia. Burn the body, no exhumation. I could go on, but I’m talking to a rock.
Provide proof of your claim or stfu.

BTW, Epstein ‘died’ during the Biden era. His administration had FULL access to everything Epstein. Now, who is covering up.

Finally, if there was anything ‘there,’ it has been white-washed long ago. You are NOT dealing with idiots here. In Hollywood good triumphs evil. In politics, good seldom wins.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  BenW

You better tell that to the half of MAGA that wants to see the files.

MAGA Mike has effectively closed the people’s House for fear of getting the 218th vote to open up the Epstein files.

Epstein and his friendship with Trump as Steve Bannon has discussed said he thought the pedophile could bring Trump down. Bannon is correct.

njbr
njbr
6 months ago

ropes are being tangled around the feet of the economy

becoming almost impossible to not stumble and falll

see this site for a good listing of the tarriff state of play

https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/11/02/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/

the fall will benefit the consolidation of power

“extraordinary time will require extraordinary measures”

The Window Cleaner
The Window Cleaner
6 months ago

Macro-economically speaking, the problem is not government debt ITS PRIVATE DEBT!!! Start there by consulting Steve Keen and Michael Hudson for their analysis…and then me because I take their correct mathematical conclusions and actually solve them…by accomplishing the most hoped for changes of both libertarian and liberal economists.

Mish, you once said that you learned alot from Steve Keen in that he made you realize that loans create deposits so you’re half way there. Now all you have to do is realize that changing the NATURE of a percentage of those PRIVATE deposits can integrate left and right economic theory and create a thirdness greater oneness of their hopes…in the temporal universe that we all inhabit.

FDR
FDR
6 months ago

Excellent post. Keen and Hudson know accounting in addition to monetary economics. The accounting flows or T accounting of debits = credits has always been a truism that the banksters, and the others in the rentier class have known since the classical era.

jlee
jlee
6 months ago

welcome to the private sector comrades

our previously self elected leader and fellow voters and biden created millions of high payong jobs for us …just in case….

good thing we did that, now we can get them

Bo Cho
Bo Cho
6 months ago

What’s this really about?
You asked, and in yet another Mish-take provided only a partial answer.
Other “abouts”:
Ridiculous funding requests by Lib Dems.
Providing yet more funds for illegal aliens.
Etc etc etc.
Note: “The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019″ would have made that a Trump 47-era act now, wouldn’t it???

Last edited 6 months ago by Bo Cho
Mark
Mark
6 months ago

Almost everyone here said it would be a TACO. Wrong

Subsidies for over 400% poverty level is just stupid. This part of the enhanced benefits needs to go. And everyone needs to pay something a month so there are no fraudulent signups. The minimum has to be more than the commission for the sign up.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark

There are well known loopholes by millionaires on how to game the healthcare system and pay peanuts. There are whole websites and forums dedicated on how to lower your income via dividends or capital gains or other mechanisms to avoid showing any income and paying virtually nothing for health insurance.

https://www.financialsamurai.com/millionaire-early-retirees-probably-shouldnt-get-healthcare-subsidies/

But the biggest subsidies go to those on medicare. These guys complaining about paying an extra $20/month when the average person out there is getting a $200/month hike is ridiculous. None of this is sustainable and we’re reaching the total breaking point. My bet is for around 2030 when all the boomers hit the dole.

Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

The same mechanism for showing a lower income is also used to dramatically lower taxes for the upper income.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

I think the best solution is a 100% inheritance tax. Oops, there goes your inheritance from mommy and daddy.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark

The FPL (federal poverty level) is about $16K for a single person and $32,150 for a household of four persons. Four times the household level is only $128,600. Four persons two adults two kids on $33K has to be nearly impossible, even four times that in many areas of the country is difficult. Might be OK in the backwoods of MS or the empty plains of KS but most other places not so much.

400% sounds huge but when you see the actual dollar amounts that perspective may change. How is the poverty level not $40K for a single and $60K for a family of four? I’ll guarantee not one federal politician lives anywhere near the poverty level. That’s why millionaires should be ineligible to serve in public office.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Pokercat

Adjust your lifestyle. Find cheaper housing. They make mobile homes for people with low incomes. Don’t buy new, get used.

Last edited 6 months ago by Flingel Bunt
Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt

Correct! Live beneath your means until you can use your money to make money…

Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark

“Subsidies for over 400% poverty level is just stupid.”

What’s even more stupid is average health insurance costs running over $25k per household. Fix that and you can fix the 400% issue. But nobody wants to push politicians on that.

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

How about you provide five ways to reduce health costs?

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Flingel Bunt
  1. Ensuring Universal Access to Healthcare

One of the primary reasons for the U.S. government to take over the healthcare system is to ensure universal access to healthcare services. Currently, millions of Americans are either uninsured or underinsured, leaving them vulnerable to financial ruin in the event of a medical emergency. By implementing a government-run healthcare system, the U.S. could join the ranks of countries like Canada, the United Kingdom, and many European nations, where access to healthcare is considered a fundamental right. Universal healthcare would guarantee that all Americans have equal access to essential medical services, regardless of their income or employment status.

  1. Controlling Healthcare Costs

The cost of healthcare in the United States is significantly higher than in other developed countries, and it continues to rise at an unsustainable rate. A government takeover of healthcare could help control these costs through various means:
a) Single-Payer System: One potential approach is the establishment of a single-payer system, where the government is the sole payer for healthcare services. This system can negotiate lower prices for drugs, medical procedures, and equipment due to its bargaining power, resulting in cost savings that can be passed on to patients.
b) Administrative Efficiency: A government-run system can streamline administrative processes by reducing the complexity of billing and insurance claims. This would lead to significant cost savings, as the current multi-payer system is notorious for its administrative overhead.
c) Bulk Purchasing of Pharmaceuticals: The government can negotiate lower drug prices by purchasing pharmaceuticals in bulk, which would help alleviate the financial burden on patients and the healthcare system.

  1. Enhancing Provider Training and Accountability

A government takeover of healthcare also presents an opportunity to improve the training and accountability of healthcare providers, which can lead to better patient outcomes.
a) Standardized Training: The government can establish and enforce standardized training and certification requirements for healthcare professionals. This would ensure that all providers meet a certain level of competency and expertise, reducing the likelihood of medical errors and malpractice.
b) Malpractice Insurance: To address the issue of malpractice insurance, the government could create a unified system that provides affordable coverage for all healthcare providers. This would protect both patients and healthcare professionals while reducing the burden of exorbitant malpractice premiums.
c) Quality Assurance: Government oversight can focus on maintaining high-quality care and patient safety. Regular evaluations and assessments can identify areas of improvement and ensure that healthcare providers meet stringent quality standards.
Conclusion
The United States faces numerous challenges in its current healthcare system, including lack of universal access, skyrocketing costs, and inconsistent quality of care. A government takeover of healthcare presents a compelling solution to address these issues by providing universal access, controlling costs, and enhancing provider training and accountability. While implementing such a system would undoubtedly be a complex and challenging endeavor, it has the potential to transform the U.S. healthcare system into one that is more equitable, efficient, and effective, ultimately benefiting all Americans. By addressing malpractice insurance, healthcare provider training, and operational expenses within this framework, the U.S. can move closer to a healthcare system that prioritizes the well-being of its citizens.

BenW
BenW
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark

The whole ACA needs to be scrapped but that’s not likely to happen anytime soon.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  BenW

See my reply to Mr. Bunt

Flingel Bunt
Flingel Bunt
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark

400% x poverty is to create a dependency class to vote for Demofats. There is NO other reason.

Laura
Laura
6 months ago

Obamacare subsidies and ALL benefits for illegals need to end. Hope Republicans don’t cave. As soon as the government is open go ahead with all the layoffs the judges stopped during the shut down. The Federal workforce needs to be drastically reduced.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Laura

Illegal residents are not eligible for Obamacare or other federal benefits. Learn something, turn off Fox faux news.

Most federal public benefits programs, such as SNAP, SSI, Medicare, and TANF, are generally not available to undocumented immigrants.
Full-scope Medicaid and CHIP are not available, except in the limited emergency-only context.
Health insurance purchased through the Affordable Care Act (ACA) marketplace is not an option

david
david
6 months ago
Reply to  Pokercat

On SNAP benefits, I think you are wrong.
Per this website today:
On my first day @USDA we told every state to send us their SNAP data so we could make sure illegal immigrants aren’t getting benefits meant for American families. 29 states stepped up. 21 blue states refused — and two SUED US FOR ASKING! https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f926-1f3fb-200d-2640-fe0f.svg

And guess what? In just the states that cooperated, we’ve already uncovered massive fraud.

And I have not watched Fox news in 30 years

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
6 months ago
Reply to  david

Is this the same type of “massive fraud” that Trump promised DOGE would uncover within Social Security, Medicaid, lazy government workers, etc?

Because those ‘savings’ found were a massive nothing-burger – as Mish has covered before.

Why can’t these in-the-know Trumpers actually show us the fraud that exists? We’d all be better for it (if it’s true)

David
David
6 months ago

well for SNAP they are showing you.
What you now believe or never believed there is no fraud in government programs? Is that what you are saying?
All I am saying is clean up the fraud. You can throw your in the know bullshit some where else.

Laura
Laura
6 months ago
Reply to  Pokercat

I don’t have cable TV. Even though illegals aren’t eligible they somehow manage to get benefits.

Last edited 6 months ago by Laura
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
6 months ago
Reply to  Laura

Trump has supposedly deported 2 million people and healthcare costs haven’t dropped one bit. If anything, everything has gone up in cost. Please explain if illegals are causing the cost to go up.

Last edited 6 months ago by MPO45v2
Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Crickets…

David
David
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Please tell me you are not blaming Trump for rising health care costs .

Illegals go to the ER and have to be treated by law. So yeah, I am saying illegals increase the cost of healthcare that you me and everyone else here is paying for. Forget Obama care. That actually hurts the working lower middle class more. Illegals just go to the ER and its free under Medicaid and you can thank a past Republican president for that.
I guess you have not been to a city ER lately, and thank God for that.

Now I do not have a problem helping people to a point, the point of illegals that are here get treated for free. But then it never ends with Democrats and some of you Trump haters that denied then ignored the border problem for 4 years under Biden and called me a racist MAGA for pointing that out.
So yeah I do have a problem with the 20 million free loaders that came into America from 100 countries BTW. And thats not Fox news saying that, there are plenty of sources that admit that.

Federal Government printing money out of thin air.
That didnt ignite more inflation?

I’m really getting sick of everyone pointing out everything Trump does but nothing the Democrats and far left wackos do that you could argue is doing even more damage to the country than what you think Trump is.

Last edited 6 months ago by David
FDR
FDR
6 months ago
Reply to  David

US foreign policy is the main reason for illegal immigration. Trump and every president since the turn of the century have had Latin American countries in the cross hairs. The result is overt and covert regime change which produced autocrats, drug smuggling, indigenous elite corruption, US multinationals robbing the country they have “colonized”.

This goes without saying the IMF, the World Bank and the West’s banksters taking their pound of flesh for what Right wing juntas that bankrupted the country then after they are overthrown the new governments have to go hat and hand to the West for assistance, which they demand that they surrender their oil, gold, and other commodities, water plants, etc., as collateral knowing full well that these countries can’t fulfill their debt obligations.

See the books written by John Perkins:

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man 

The Secret History of the American Empire: The Truth About Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and How to Change the World

Hoodwinked

Last edited 6 months ago by FDR
Neal
Neal
6 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Simple maths. Getting the illegals out reduced how much healthcare costs went up. Had those 2 million not gone your costs would have risen even faster.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
6 months ago

F the blood-sucking class (the politicians) all of them are my enemy

Jon
Jon
6 months ago

Air travel is beginning a slow shutdown. It took a week for my son to find a direct flight from Boston to Orlando to attend a funeral. Orlando International is having repeated delays as ATC staff is increasingly short. The only thing keeping the government shutdown is complacency. Stop sending out checks, shutdown airports, shutdown drug enforcement, shutdown border control, shutdown the military, and a million more things the fed does and this thing will end tomorrow.

Sentient
Sentient
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

Cutoff Israel and it would be over instantly. Mamdani is winning in part because everybody’s sick of their shit.

david
david
6 months ago
Reply to  Sentient

Yeah well people will be more sick of mamdani shit before his brief moment in the sun is over
Yeah, just what NYC needs, a socialist communist islamic foreign born and foreign financed millionaire rich boy that apparently never had a job or career in his life
You obviously do not live in NYC

Last edited 6 months ago by david
Phil in CT
Phil in CT
6 months ago
Reply to  david

Wow you sound like a real bigot crybaby here whining about his ethnic background, etc.

kareninca
kareninca
6 months ago
Reply to  david

Cuomo killed thousands of elderly people by forcing nursing homes to accept people with active covid. If I lived in NYC I would probably know one of his victims. That is a good part of the reason that he is so hated. Real dead people are pretty compelling.

Avery2
Avery2
6 months ago
Reply to  kareninca

They used the ‘grab @ss’ excuse to yank him off stage 4 years ago, before more people dug into what you said.

The Window Cleaner
The Window Cleaner
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

Yeah, with revolution instead of solution and evolution.

Pokercat
Pokercat
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

If he is old enough to drive and has a valid license renting a compact and driving is more reliable and may even be cheaper. I visit Las Vegas at least twice a year from TN, I drive two days (I’m old used to be one day) and I can take whatever luggage I want and don’t have to rent a car in Vegas. Driving presents an almost unlimited amount of freedom, flying is like prison.

Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  Pokercat

He’s a doctor with patients. He has to fly in and out on the same day.

ad hominem
ad hominem
6 months ago
Dave Smith
Dave Smith
6 months ago

In 1980 during the Carter Administration, AG Civiletti ruled the 1884 Antideficiency Act to require non-essential government activities to shut down with lapses in government funding. Thus, shutting down the government is purely an executive branch interpretation of an old law and not being done with congressional direction or any interpretation by the courts. Trump could end this in a nano second with an EO.

Repeat of a reply from a little while back.

David
David
6 months ago

I guess I have to admit I was wrong on a SNAP deal being done by Nov 1 .

Glad know one took the bet, lol

Last edited 6 months ago by David
Phil in CT
Phil in CT
6 months ago
Reply to  David

This is just the beginning of hunger in Trump’s second term. The juxtaposition of multi million dollar Halloween bashes and gilded ballrooms while millions of Americans go hungry could not be more striking.

Patrick
Patrick
6 months ago

Why is Orange Man Bad trying to destroy the country by not giving in to Schumer and Jeffries (really the money behind them) extortion and just extend temporary aid which has expired? Just like how can Orange Man Bad enforce immigration law? So terrible, etc. Cue the blue hairs and Antifa lovers. Lol.

ad hominem
ad hominem
6 months ago
Reply to  Patrick

Orange Man has money for Israel, Argentina, and to continue and expand globalist wars. But no money for cucks.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
6 months ago
Reply to  Patrick

Orange Corporate Servant is doing well according to his masters

Sentient
Sentient
6 months ago
Reply to  Patrick

All this “orange, orange, orange” is weird. A friend of mine calls him “the orange shit stain”. He could barely leave the house for weeks after the 2024 election. I have a lot of problems with Trump but I don’t collapse on my fainting couch. Do you guys also go around wearing masks so you don’t catch covids?

Phil in CT
Phil in CT
6 months ago
Reply to  Sentient

The guy here saying it is right wing… Among my friends we refer to trump as a rapist and a con man. The slathered on 🤡 face paint is just a grotesque chef’s kiss.

The Window Cleaner
The Window Cleaner
6 months ago
Reply to  Patrick

Republican AND democrats alike are the problem because they only want to spout “solutions” read half truth orthodoxies…instead of changing a single APPLIED concept regarding the nature of new money so as to break up its monopoly effects. We need a Copernicus, not an economic bible thumping obsessive.

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