Juncker Does Not Back an Extension
European Commission President and the EU have reached a deal. European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker opposes and extension. That is not his call but it is what I expected..
In the video, Juncker says he is happy for a deal but sad to see the UK go.
Reasonable Deal
Those who say this is May’s deal warmed over are simply wrong.
Constitutional Challenge and Other Details
The Guardian Live Blog discusses a constitutional challenge, DUP opposition, and other details.
Jean-Claude Juncker has tried to help sell the new Brexit deal in the face of opposition from the Democratic Unionist party by pouring doubt on a further Brexit extension in the event of it being rejected.
Juncker said he was “ruling out” a prolongation, although the issue is solely the remit of the heads of state and government. “If we have a deal, we have a deal and there is no need for prolongation,” he added.
Constitutional Challenge
Campaigning anti-Brexit QC Jolyon Maugham has now lodged his petition at the court of session in Edinburgh, which essentially tries to ban parliament from debating the new Brexit deal, on the basis that it is illegal, and which he anticipates will be heard tomorrow.
Maugham believes that the deal contravenes s55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018, which states that it is “unlawful for Her Majesty’s government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain”.
With the detail of Boris Johnson’s new deal still emerging, lawyers insist that s55 is “crystal clear” and that any form of differentiated deal for Northern Ireland will contravene it.
Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, has already cleared time for an emergency hearing in the court of session at noon on Monday 21 October, where he could issue court orders forcing Johnson to send a letter to the EU asking for an extension to article 50 until 31 January as per the Benn Act.
Boost to Johnson
Johnson Likely Has the Votes
Sir Oliver Letwin will back deal
Sir Oliver Letwin, who had the Conservative whip withdrawn over his rebellion on a no-deal Brexit vote, has said he will back the Prime Minister’s deal on Saturday, calling it “admirable”
No Deal Says DUP
These arrangements will become the settled position in these areas for Northern Ireland. This drives a coach and horses through the professed sanctity of the Belfast agreement.
For all of these reasons it is our view that these arrangements would not be in Northern Ireland’s long-term interests. Saturday’s vote in parliament on the proposals will only be the start of a long process to get any withdrawal agreement bill through the House of Commons.
Another Referendum?
I think it is unlikely, but how would it turn out?
Eurointellience frames it this way:
for those who are still holding out for a second referendum, and who believe that it could easily be won: the problem with most of the polls is that they confound a person’s position on Brexit – Remain vs Leave – with how they would vote in a second referendum. We know a lot of Remainers who believe that the first referendum results needs to be respected, and who would vote no in a second referendum.
A ComRes poll for Channel 5 news produced a more granular survey, and came up with a 50-42 split in favour Leave under a concrete 2nd referendum setting.
When they asked the question whether the 2016 referendum results should be honoured, the response was 54% in favour, and 32% against. It is one poll only – and the numbers are probably going to swing backwards and forwards. But we should be under no illusion that public opinion on Brexit has shifted since the referendum. We see no signs of that.
All’s Well That Ends Well
https://twitter.com/BakerLuke/status/1184836752864927753
Except nothing has ended.
I suspect all the MPs who lost Tory party membership will regain the whip (membership) if they vote for the deal. That makes passage more likely, but not guaranteed.
There are about 22 Labour MPs who want Brexit and that would likely be enough to offset the 9 DUP votes. This is my guess, Eurointelliugence thinks passage falls short.
If it does pass, legal challenges loom. And Benn is likely to modify the legislation requiring Johnson to seek an extension if it doesn’t pass.
Final Irony Coming Up?
One possibility is that if the legal challenge wins, a hard Brexit might happen, which Johnson could blame on Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Remainers.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Hmm, it’s not actually as good as it looks. It prepares Northern Ireland to be handed over to the RoI about ten years hence. It agrees to align UK regulations with the EU, albeit this is only in the Political Declaration and Johnson may try to limit the scope of that. It fails to include an upfront acknowledgement that access to our fisheries will not be bartered in the deal agreed over the next two years, although it does say the UK is an independent coastal state. It agrees to never tax EU pensions – as if it’s any of their business how we tax our citizens. It agrees to allow the EU court years of supervision of EU citizens’ rights in the UK. It agrees that we will join an EU army or take part in military affairs in some way. It hands over £39bn for nothing, really. To be honest, it won’t be clear if this was a great deal for Great Britain (albeit pushing Ulster out of the Union) until the final trade deal is reached in a year or two’s time. My hunch is that in hindsight this deal will be looked at as crap.
I think Johnson has likely done all he could to deliver Brexit. He came up with a deal, and if that deal is shot down by the Remainers, then they will get all the blame for a hard Brexit. Again, the only way to stop Brexit is to replace Johnson, or revoke Article 50, and it increasingly looks like Remain doesn’t have the votes to do either one of these.
Now, as for the courts- I wrote the other day that the UK lead court would not balk at declaring Brexit illegal if push came to shove- any legal argument will be grasped at, so I expect the court to rule the deal is illegal, and after that that hard Brexit is also illegal for some other reason. The reasons will always change as each is knocked down. This isn’t about the law at this point- it is all politics.
My prediction is that Parliament will pass the agreement this weekend, and that the court will rule it illegal, which will probably be fixed by the same Parliament majority also revoking the law under which the court is planning to base its judgment. Then a Remainer will file some other suit under some other law, and we will go through it again.
I think the key development today outside the deal itself was Juncker ruling out the 3 month extension. He would not have said that if he wasn’t sure was speaking for the EU council.
I think the only thing that really matters in all this – in the short term – is getting this hung Parliament replaced by one with a working majority. Until then, not matter what is agreed or blocked etc., it will be a frustrating quagmire for all involved. Like him or not, Boris is right: ‘the British people have had enough; it’s time to get it done!’ It is, and the more the anti-Brexit crowd succeed in blocking Brexit, the more they guarantee themselves the Royal Boot in the next election. They are living example of the danger, tragedy, stupidity and farce involved with people who invest so much in an abstract idea (or ideal) that they entirely lose touch with reality (becoming, in the process, virtual sociopaths).
For the good of the entire country, it’s time to put this baby to bed!
I dont trust politicians and I dont trust Johnsson not to have signed something important away. It needs very careful scrutiny.
Perhaps it being kicked into touch by Parliament may be the best outcome for a clean break on Oct 31st.
Labour might have some use.
I have replies from Avid and Deep Purple I can’t see. I am not ignoring you guys, just can’t see your posts this morning, will have a look when they are available.
Eurointelligence…………must be the lying public mouthpiece that only spews its opinion and crams it down your throat as if it were the truth. Sounds familiar.
Things moving forward for sure. Leaving aside that many of the people insisting that there were no negotiations going and that Boris was just lying and bluffing etc. now have egg on their face (not that any of them will admit it), I can’t help wondering:
If it passes, fine, all done and dusted presumably.
But if it fails, and then the EU refuses to grant and extension, is it not the case that, just as Juncker said this morning, they can begin negotiations on November 1st which will unfold during the two-year transition period during which everything remains pretty much the same. So I am beginning to think that as long as the EU says ‘No’ to an extension, that whether or not the UK Parliament passes the deal, the exact same thing will happen on November 1st either way.
In which case Boris will be proved right again, for he has been repeating to all and sundry for a while now: ‘we will be leaving the EU on October 31st, deal or no deal.’
Seems like he’s a much more skillful and gutsy pol than most thought….
AND: if he gets ‘Brexit done’ by Oct 31st he’ll win a thumping majority, and if it gets blocked by more legal or parliamentary shenanigans, then he’ll win in a landslide.
Has passed the EU summit unanimously and now is up to parliament to approve this weekend, if it does not happen the UK is out with a hard Brexit that will be ONLY the remainers fault.
It is the NI-only backstop with a few cosmetic gimmicks. No wonder that the unionist refuse it again. I am curious about Scottish Tories, the ERG and the rebels but there is no majority even if all of them go for it. It is highly likely to fail.
I have to admit that I did not expect Juncker to come out against extension. However, that is his personal opinion, very far from any official statement on the part of the EU. If that is all, then the opposition will aim for rejection in the Commons.
The deal was approved by the EU summit unanimously today, now only the scattered and various whining remainers stand against it, the message is clear, the UK is out on October 31 with or without this deal. If they had any brains they would not stand in the way, but of course they don’t as we have seen for years now, so I expect them to spoil it or give it their best shot this weekend. No matter what else happens now the UK is out on November 1 and the voters will see that they are the problem not the solution.
Extension is not ruled out. It is entirely possible that Parliament will reject this agreement and then put up an interim government with the purpose of extension.
Extension is ruled out because the UK can ask but the EU has already said no more extensions, that was Junker today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrih0lqXVRQ
The deal was unanimously approved by the EU and there will be no extension if parliament refuses to ratify this weekend, it is end game, if the remainers block the deal the UK is out with a no deal Brexit and they will rightly get the blame for that. I would bet that they again try to hold off a general election for as long as they can because the voters will string them up if given a chance to have a say. Not that the remainers care what the voters say, but they do care about losing their little satraps.
The EU has ruled out extension, why do you believe otherwise? What do you know I don’t?
Juncker has no say about the issue of extension, his opinion is not an official position in this regard. If the UK government goes for extension, decision will be made by EU member countries, not Brussels people
Of course, there is no certainty that EU countries will grant it but they want to preserve the EU, so it is likely.
All they gain via extension is blocking on votes needing unanimity during the extension period.
Yes, they get a gridlock. And that is what they want.
The pressure is continuously building to change the rules of politics in the UK. Many people want to get rid of the supreme court, the Speaker, the first-past-the-post voting, the unwritten constitution… The UK is an obstacle in the way of EU centralization for decades. Now there is an opportunity to tear apart British institutions for good.
It is about much more than Brexit.
House of Lords has to go for a start, Speaker needs powers limited.
The EU is likely to pass a law that won’t allow a membership referendum in future unless all EU countries agree. An awful idea. Look the doors and the cinema burns down everyone roasts together.
Interim Gov is a fantasy. There is no one that can carry people with them if they usurp. It would be equivalent to a coup in order to contradict the will of the people at the 2016 vote that was approved by a democratically elected Gov.
Should it happen the British contingent in Brussells would block as much activity as possible. The EU won’t want an extension.
If Corbyn gets the interim PM position, he will extend and then go for an election as the man who prevented the Tory “no deal” Brexit. Maybe he would not win but Labour would survive nearly intact.
If some of the actual elitist Remainers get to be PM (less likely), they will probably go for outright constitutional change. Proportional voting would instantly solve most of their problems including Brexit.
If I were British, I would not worry about Brexit. It is a single issue, even if it is important. I would worry about systemic transformations with brutal consequences.
The real story today is the ambassador to the EU has now flipped in his testimony to congress. One by one people that Trump hired are coming to the conclusion they dont with to go down with the ship the way Cohen, currently serving jail time for perjury, did.
Looking at this mess – or is it a charade? – me thinks it’s not over until it’s over. Too many moving pieces on the table. My bet is on the hard Brexit.
I will agree to the point I think it is a 50/50 bet on hard Brexit, we will see if the remainers blink or not. Their strategy is to approve no deal ever, forcing a hard Brexit so they can say afterwards “SEE – look what you leavers did to us.” They are betting (and working hard behind the scenes to insure) that Brexit is so awful that the people BEG for a second referendum to be part of the EU. But, I should think deal or no deal the EU and Johnson have this in common, the UK will not be part of the EU on November 1. And after this it would be political suicide for the politicians of the continent to allow them back in for at least a generation, and even then only on punitive and probationary terms, terms that would shrink the balls of the most avid remainer.
Hard Brexit takes down the British and drags the Germans with them. Its the impact on Germany that has resulted in the news today. No one gives a fig for the British.
Certain things though are just fact and are not going to change no matter what, one is the people voted to leave, and those that did not have worked against the interests of their own nation in order to sabotage that leaving. They still are. Right to the very bitter end and I say they will continue to plot even after with absolutely no shame or embarrassment about how utterly stupid they look doing it.
One thing you say I agree with, the departure of the UK from the EU may work to bring down the entire edifice of this horrific experiment in government called the EU. But, if it has any chance of surviving it is only without the UK. You just cannot have that many unhappy members in your club and not have blowback sooner or later. We both know that if Germany drops the EU the EU is gone. But, I believe that Germany treats the EU like the easy way to control Europe without having concentration camps and all the negative baggage associated with conquest. It was Germany that became the shit disturber that pits places like Catalonia against Madrid, Scotland against the UK, the Walloon’s against the Flemish. Enough internal disruption to keep them from effectively countering German power but not enough to keep the ECB from running the whole show out of Frankfurt.
I respectfully disagree because I think that actually there is virtually no difference between this deal and No Deal. Why? Because even if you have No Deal exit, there are still a plethora of post-membership arrangements (‘deals’) to be made. Either with or without a deal, the same people will be sitting around the same tables for the next two years. I believe that the British Gov persuaded the EU that they were going to be able to leave. Why?
Because if the Opposition finds a way in next few days or weeks to block it all, they will soon have to agree to an election and will get creamed because the country will not feel kindly towards any prolongation of this long, national nightmare. Yes, some Remainers will never quit, but I suspect a sizable chunk – like 20-40% will feel that enough is enough and so the Tories will get a landslide win after which the new Leaver Parliament will immediately take us to where we will be on Nov 1st, just maybe a few weeks later. And if the deal is passed, well there we are on Nov 1st.
This is what the EU figured out. So they might as well get this all over. Nothing is going to change for two years after Nov 1st as they hash out the new trading arrangements but acc. to JRM and others, we will no longer be under ECJ jurisdiction, or in various other mechanisms, that part of leaving is clear. The sticky wickets are around the NI issue – which will never be clear cut or easy mainly because of geography but also because NI population is majority Remain and will want to leave the Union perhaps – and the free trade / deregulation thrust vs. maintaining the same standards and arrangements for trade within the EU. Those sticky wickets are there whether or not there is this Deal, another Deal, or No Deal.
So this entire thing is mainly to get the Hung Parliament in the UK moving somehow. If they pass it, great. If they don’t, there will be another few steps but then a Leaver Parliament will be on the green benches soon and the result will be the same.
I think Oct 31st is going to happen as the penny finally drops as more MP’s realise it’s over already so let’s just ‘get on with it.’ Those MP’s in Leaver districts are going to want to vote for the deal or risk a high probability of losing their job in a month or two.
Ain’t democracy grand?!
EU leaders have unanimously approved it, so now it is up to Parliament
Great, now the Tory party and the entire EU are in agreement, October 31 the UK leaves with this deal, it is now only the various remainers whining and crying and standing in it’s way. So, if there is no approval from the parliament it will be a horrible no deal Brexit and the remainers get the blame. That is going to see them ditched by the voters in the next GE. And good riddance to bad rubbish.
So Boris surrender to EU and agreed to leave Northern Ireland in EU customs union “de jure”… shame… shame…
A “great deal” would be to scrap Brexit and remain in the EU. And, join Schengen.
ANYTHING is great….except membership of a totally superfluous, worthless, hopelessly divided, parasitic fairweather institute composed of equally worthless, yet outrageously overpaid, nationally failed, poor excuses of dumb politicians ! BREAK UP THE EU and all it stands for ! It is a ridiculous, utterly corrupt circus!
As a US tourist in Europe, I love the euro. One currency to rule them all.
You are too good at provoking the numpties.
I nostalgically remember how buying currencies before going to Spain or italy, or wherever was part of our pleasant holidays …..The Euro is a MONSTER undermining our future, but, no offence, I dont expect Americans to understand what I mean…
“I nostalgically remember how buying currencies before going to Spain or italy”
But, when you visit 6 countries in 1-1/2 weeks as I did on my first business trip to Europe, there is no nostalgia. Only, painful memories of 10% haircuts every time I exited the airplane.
During our most recent vacation trip we visited 3 countries–all euro. We deliberately did not go to Hrvatska as it was not part of Schengen and has its own currency.
The convenience for tourists of a single currency sounds all well and good, but look at the expense to the nations participating in it. Generations of Greeks and Spanish, Portuguese, Irish will grow up saddled with debt they can’t pay that will hold back their economies and sure, they will eat, the socialist EU will make sure they get food and at least partial shelter as long as they behave and don’t get out of line. Italy, a perma basket case. Savers punished with no end in sight. Housing so expensive they can’t hope to pay for it without government assistance that comes with strings attached. Never venturing more than 20 feet in any directions without the government (bureaucracy) monitoring it.
No thank you. You can do Schengen without a single currency, and you can have limits on the price at bureaus de change. Price too high on swapping currencies? Have reciprocal agreements between governments to set up kiosks for free exchange. It is the very fact of single currency that is strangling some of the nations while benefiting others. That is not worth the real hidden price of the single currency.
Though what you are saying is true, I don’t think you realise where OP is coming from, and certainly won’t arouse his sympathy. It isn’t that he isn’t current on commissions, simple methods to avoid them, or the stupidity of blaming cash cash at airport kiosks, all of which are applicable. No, it is that these people are pandered to a degree that they expect where they go to be uniform, even if it means erasing whole nations. That they did not go somewhere because it was not Euro is a very sad joke, or because there is a controlled border or who knows a visa formality, unlike their country ? No, these sort of people know where they can go, and that will be back in their own paradise of a country.
I am in favor of trade deals that support wider Europe, and I am in favor of Schengen; but the EU is a fatally flawed construct that has to go, a useless bureaucracy is not a federal government or central power, the weakness of the EU is so bad that BY FAR the most powerful person in Europe is the head of the ECB and that globalist clusterfuck in Frankfurt has no clue what it is doing.
What EU supporters seem to think is ignore the problems and they will all just magically disappear, and the head in the sand philosophy is far more dangerous than 27 separate countries cooperating as independent nations. It was this complacency that gave us Hitler. The attitude that “we can control him,” and in time the fool will be seen for what he is.
If the pro EU people were paying any attention at all, and sober enough to use logic they would see Brexit as the first major earthquake in the unit of the EU though by far not the last. The EU is unstable, there is no central power, the legal system of the EU tries to do to law what the metric system did for measurements, looks good on paper but totally made up and forced to fit nature rather than the other way around.
And typical of unrestrained bureaucrats they bully everyone while looking the other way in certain cases because they know that the threat is real, such as the total dismissal of EU laws and norms in both Poland and Hungary. They have ruled that Catalonian separatists are fair game for imprisonment because their movement was “illegal.” They have no answers for any of the many independence movements so they just look the other way while Spain rounds up the leaders of the referendum that was by the quite legal under Spanish law at the time.
The EU is a disgusting vile thing that robs nations of sovereignty and customs. I do not necessarily approve of the far right of Poland or Hungary, but I recognize that it is not my place to force my views on a whole nation in the name of politically correct unity under the banner of the EU.
First time they commit men and machines to conflict we get to see what it’s worth.
Who will die for the EU and its Holy Roman Empire ambition will tell us a great deal. No doubt some new medals will be cast as an incentive.
You mean contrary to what the UK public explicitly voted for ? Maybe you think others are just waiting to be patronised by whoever has the biggest bulge in their pocket ? Paper’s cheap nowadays, as are empty comments.
What no one mentions is the brewing conflict in eastern Mediterranean as Turkey becomes more aggressive. It sees substantial oil and gas off Cyprus and a chance to reinstate older boundaries from before WWI. Syria is just the start.
The EU army may see action much sooner than expected to help Greece. Greeks more likely to turn to Russia.
A belligerent Turkey see no one to oppose them. Russia sees a weak western Europe.
Should shooting start we get to see what the EU is made of. Only hope GB keeps well out of it. We’ve spilt too much blood already.
Would like to see a full disengagement of military across EU mainland. Too costly and will be increasingly risky.
If there is yo ge a replay of the 1930s watch that area.
A belligerent Turkey? Get your head out of your behind. Did you know, the Kurd’s already have a homeland in Iraq. Trump was correct to withdraw. The Neocons and their news media sycophants have destroyed the middle-east with one regime change after another.
Kurmanji, Sorani, and palewani are the three languages the Kurds speak. Your view of the Kurds is too simplistic. Turkey is becoming a problem for Greece and Cyprus.
Look to Obama for the Syrian mess. If there is one thing the UK Parliament did correctly it was voting down Cameron’s plans to get Britain involved in that quagmire.
Trump pulling out makes some sense but no one will now trust US promises.
If Maugham wins this would be too funny for words. Rees-Mogg would then be responsible for scuppering the agreement. If and it is a big, the government go down in flames in the Scots courts it will also show that the Brexit leaders are incompetent fools. Guess what I am hoping for.
You are hoping that your liar is proved not to be a liar
Oh no, he is a liar. What is worse for him is that this deal gives Sinn Fein the final say. Too delicious for words. No wonder the DUP are up in arms.
That is actual horseshit, TGFA already gave an unlimited binding power to leave the UK to NI. The power and position of SF has not changed at all. The DUP on the other hand is making demands that cannot be met because they are mutually exclusive. NI voted to remain in the EU, the DUP wants to remain in the UK, but entirely without any conditions on the border, their position is that if the UK leaves then they should also leave the EU with the UK even though that would require a hard border and the end of TGFA. We would have to go back to 1998 when the agreement was signed to look it up, but the amendment that gave NI the power to call a referendum on reunification with the republic was probably seen as a hostile clause they have never liked because they know that one day demographics will swamp the Unionist vote, and Brexit has just brought this forward by years.
NI can’t have it all ways, if they want to remain in the UK they are going to have to accept the deal as it is. The alternative is not leave the EU and the only way forward for that would be to hold a plebiscite on reunification with Ireland. I suspect that if held today that would pass. You have the Catholic vote and the remainer vote both now in majorities, the DUP really ought to take a look at where they stand, in the minority.
But the Scottish games are the most amusing when it comes to sheer gall, just take everything to court and sue even though they have neither the right nor the legal authority to void the will of Parliament, or the voters of the wider UK. Talk about spoiled babies with their welfare grasping paws out to the EU. Brexit has superseded many older laws that are now invalid because they cannot be enforced in light of Brexit.
“Maugham believes that the deal contravenes s55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018, which states that it is “unlawful for Her Majesty’s government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.”
That law was passed in 2018 after the leave vote and as such should be held unconstitutional since it placed conditions on the government that the government could only honor with a no deal Brexit.
Given the rhetoric out of the DUP, Scotland/SNP, LibDems, Labour, and Mrs. Slocombe’s cat Tiddles, either this will be a no deal Brexit on October 31, which the remainers THINK will get blamed on the Tory government quite wrongly, because it will be blamed on the sniveling remainers who were never going to approve any deal and who worked hard to make sure there were more than enough new laws to keep it locked up in court longer then the Jarndyce case.
Reasonable people will say that you had THREE years to work together to get a deal, several were arranged and rejected, this is the best deal you will get, TAKE THE DAMNED DEAL! All along the remainers have counted on one thing only, if they force a no deal Brexit it will be so bad that even the strongest leave supporters will want to void the original referendum.
I for one am sick of the twisted logic and lies they tell themselves to justify their positions and chicanery, the people voted to leave so FREAKING LEAVE ALREADY! No more extensions. Take this deal or in two weeks go without any deal, and may the consequences rest upon the heads of the remainers.
Hear hear. Methinks 3 years of this bullshite has left scars that will never heal. Get it done and move on to actually govern the people and serve the people. Sick, tired and disgusted by these elitists.
A* for the rant but you miss the point. The current GFA calls for a majority in both British and Irish sections of the community for progress to be made. ( See the Petition of concern) This agreement calls for a simple majority for the deal to continue. This puts the DUP in a minority, and a guarantee that NI stays in this agreement until there is a united Ireland. There is no UK constitution and therefore as the Rees-Mogg act is the law of the land it cannot be unconstitutional. We are however jumping the gun, Maugham hasn’t won yet. But if he does…
“That law was passed in 2018 after the leave vote and as such should be held unconstitutional since it placed conditions on the government that the government could only honor with a no deal Brexit.”
The “last in time” principle would usually apply, so the 2018 Act would be valid. Parliamentary sovereignty and what not.
There is some question of Constitutionality with respect to Acts of Parliament that are not compatible with the EC Act 1972, which the Law Lords decided in the cases of the Merchant Shipping Act is a “special constitutional Act,” that could only be contravened or overturned by new legislation that has an express statement by Parliament that it was overturning the effect of the EC Act 1972.
Yes Je’Ri, I use the term constitutional in matters UK very loosely. Had such a law been passed in the American constitutional system (or any other rational constitutional system that is actually written down) it would be unconstitutional because it was passed after the underlying law it was meant to modify and imposes conditions that essentially fundamentally alter the law it conditions. It amends the original leave vote to say in effect that the people’s vote will only count if the UK can secure an Artical 50 deal that suits the staunchest of Brexit’s opponents, which we all know would be no leaving at all.
That would be truly the most bizarre twist …
….SURE….a referendum…. and another one if necessary, just to prove that you re right , right ?
They way Ireland was made to revote on the Treaty of Lisbon till they got it right!
Adjustments will have to ge made that include getting used to the idea of both NI and Scotland going their own way.
What’s not so appreciated is the potential impact on defence of the Northern Atlantic etc. I can’t see the seperate parts of a once UK contributing anywhere near as much as it does now.
US won’t pick up the shortfall. EU will have to dig deep.
I for one do not want to see a single tax penny go to those that do not wish to be part of the UK and they should depart with their share of the national debt.
Brexit has consequences and so should independence votes.
Pull the sub bases down to Cornwall to defend what’s left if the UK. Let Scotland join the EU army.
You seem to realising the enormity of what you and yours are doing.
I dont trust Johnsson or any politician. Parliament kicking this agreement out could help force a real break away.
June 2016 was not going to lead to life as usual no matter what the outcome and further subversion into a structure like the EU would not have been the sunny uplands some expect. Quite the opposite.
It’s a deceptive, despicable construct.
I read the above. There is only so much garbage a sane person can take. There is no prospect of a European Army. If Ireland and Sweden join it I will eat your hat even if it is made out of tin foil. As for the UK joining the Euro you obviously believe in the Invasion of the body snatchers. Still no EUstasi on the streets, no mass arrests and no ceremony planed for when the non-existant EU army leave our shores. There’s foolish then there is you.
NI has the right to call a binding referendum on leaving the UK and unification with the Republic. Scotland may also decide to jilt the queen, but, their motive to do that would be so they can remain in the EU and they claim that they should be allowed to since they are now in the EU. Their problem is that when separatist factions in the Veneto and Catalonia made the same statements they were told by the EU they would NOT be allowed to join the union. What goes for Catalonia goes for Scotland. If Scotland leaves the UK they will be independent, REALLY independent with no parent in either London or Brussels paying the welfare checks. Therefore they may grumble and demand, but in the end not go anywhere.
Actually the right to call a border poll rests with the UK Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. In the light of this factual error on your part the rest of your comment should be seen in the same light.
EU will make a special case for Scotland even if its bankrupt from day one.
I think there would be a fundamental difference between Scotland and Catalonia after Brexit. Spain was already in the EU, and the EU as policy couldn’t tell the separatist that they could enter the EU. This was done to stifle secessionist passions. However, after Brexit, the UK would no longer be part of the EU, so I think the EU would not have the same incentives to put a stop to offering Scotland EU membership.
One of the arguments is that the softer the Brexit deal the easier it is for SNP to go for independence and EU accession, less to untangle, but then again the softer the Brexit deal the less need to do so.
This is actually a good article that clarifies much of it for me and some here might like to see it. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/an-independent-scotland-in-europe-brexit-snp-conference-nicola-sturgeon
Yet another example that “poor, maligned” Scotland has and has had disproportionate control over the UK. If the English had any sense, they’d embrace Scottish Independence wholeheartedly and urgently.
In fact, the Westminster Parliament should repeal the various Acts of Union, raise the Cross of Saint George over Westminster, and do an Exit, leaving an empty husk of the UK with Scotland et al in the EU.