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Biden Launches a Full-Blown Economic War on China, It Will Backfire

Turning the Screws 

How Companies Are Dealing with US Restrictions on Chip Exports to China

Please consider How Companies Are Dealing with US Restrictions on Chip Exports to China

The U.S. Commerce Department announced a series of new trade restrictions earlier this month that banned the export of some computer processing chips to China.

The restrictions affect not only U.S. businesses selling to China, but also any company whose products contain American chip technology. The U.S. government action has many companies considering how to move forward under the new rules.

Numerous American technology companies doing major business with China are facing possible severe damage to their profits. Other companies that manufacture technology products in China are having to withdraw U.S. employees because the ban also bars “U.S. persons” from supporting technology covered by the ban.

James Lewis is a senior vice president and director of the Strategic Technologies Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington D.C. He told VOA the new restrictions seem to be “reshaping the market.”

“The Koreans, the Taiwanese and some American companies are really nervous about it,” Lewis said. “I mean, everyone’s asking, ‘What can I still sell to China?’ And in some cases, the answer is ‘nothing,’” he added.

In Britain’s Financial Times newspaper, U.S. national editor and columnist Edward Luce wrote that “Joe Biden this month launched a full-blown economic war on China.”

So far, chip companies have reacted carefully to the ban. While recognizing the government’s concerns, they have noted they were not given a chance to discuss the policy with U.S. officials before it was announced.

Call Them the Biden-Trump Tariffs Now

The Wall Street Journal comments Call Them the Biden-Trump Tariffs Now

President Biden has rolled back some of Donald Trump’s destructive tariffs, but not enough, and they’re still doing economic harm. New analyses of Mr. Trump’s Section 232 steel and aluminum tariffs show how consumers and manufacturers are still paying for the border taxes that benefit only a few companies.

A study by Harbor Aluminum for the Beer Institute finds that the 10% tariff on imported aluminum cost U.S. beverage manufacturers $1.7 billion from March 2018 through August 2022. About 93% of the $1.7 billion has been pocketed by domestic aluminum producers and smelters in the U.S. and Canada. Only $120 million has gone to the U.S. government.

While Biden relaxed some tariffs on China, the chip export ban is a sharp escalation in an economic war with China. 

According to the Financial Times, China accounts for 33 per cent of sales at Applied Materials, 27 per cent at Intel and 31 per cent at Lam Research.

President Biden unequivocally blocked China’s access to high-end computer chips but how long can that last?

Blowbacks Everywhere

Inside the Secret Prisoner Swap That Splintered the U.S. and China

Detention of a Chinese executive to stand trial in the U.S. provoked a standoff between global rivals and opened an acrimonious new era. 

The US arrest of Meng Wanzhou, chief financial officer of China’s Huawei Technologies Co. was based on an irrelevant 6-year old power-point. She was arrested in Canada in 2018.

That’s quite the story. Bolton did this on his own accord and got Canada tangled up in it too. 

It’s a long but interesting read. Here is a free link: Inside the Secret Prisoner Swap That Splintered the U.S. and China

Inflationary Headwinds

De-globalization and decarbonization are both very inflationary. 

Both parties seem OK with the former. Decarbonization by the US and EU Left greatly adds to the mess. 

No Man’s Land 

Weaponizing currency reserves and diplomats on top of this is madness. But’s that’s where we are.

For further discussion, please see What Does China Do With a Dollar That’s No Longer Risk Free? Buy Gold?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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91 Comments
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Webej
Webej
3 years ago
The worst part of this site
No idea how many agree, but the Read More of This Conversation opening a new window with a ton of duplicated data downloaded for nested comments is among the most irritating features of any ‘browsing experience’.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Agree, I just open it in a 2nd browser, but it sucks.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
For every action there is a reaction
There are a lot of parties involved in current production of various type of chips: It is truly an international effort.
There are a lot more cogs than ASML (Kingdom of the Netherlands) or TSMC (Republic of China), including ones operating from Korea, Japan, and the USA. Any one of these cogs slipping out could cause huge problems. But the worst problem would be lack of cooperation and antagonism henceforth. How the system will settle into a new equilibrium is unknowable, but it is also unlikely that it will favor the USA at the cost of all other players … inciting hostilities is unlikely to morph into a winning hand. Everybody will be looking for ways to insulate themselves from future USA tyranny.
The Chinese (who are known to lack engineers, math talent, and perseverance /sarc) may well jump over current technological thresholds and be selling to everyone except the USA.
John k
John k
3 years ago
So Taiwan can sell their best chips to us but not China (one country, two systems.)
Advantage us. China can eventually develop this tech, but maybe years away. What can China do to level the field? Take out Taiwan chip plants. Do it at night when nobody is there.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  John k
Or just try to take Taiwan entirely.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Chinese are very far behind in chip tech and will hurt because of this recent US government action.
Take a look at what Peter Zeihan’s team had to say about this.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
A chip(no puns….)munk launching a war against a tiger….. Wow! I’m sure the latter is scared now……
There hasn’t been fundamental advances in chip design for decades. It’s all about production processes. Where the Chinese (on Taiwan, but still Chinese…) are currently at the forefront.
Mainland chipmakers aren’t making so called “advanced” chips, largely because there are plenty of other suppliers for them. As in: It’s an area where the mainlanders haven’t perceived a clear path to a real competitive advantage. But as in every other area: Once demand is there, supply will follow. Chinese industry has absolutely enormous resources to apply to solving any “shortage” problem. An order of magnitude more resources than anyone else at this point. Any “shortage” they experience as a result of childbrains throwing tantrums, will be so temporary it’s hardly even a blip. And then; as opposed to now, “the Chinese” WILL have a competitive advantage in that area as well. Just as they do in increasingly every other area….
The only people acting as if that is not obvious are 1) genuinely retarded. Or senile. Or, realistically given the times we live in, both. Or 2) wilfully BS’ing, in order to cash out during what may be the shortest of dislocations, before it becomes obvious to even the senile retards above, that the whole project was never more than the silly delusion of a gaggle of has-been incompetent children no longer able to meaningfully compete at anything.
mrchinup
mrchinup
3 years ago
Mish, you’re so good with some topics but I feel you are lost on others like this one. When I started following you in 02 or 03 you were spot on with RE. I saw the same type of thing in the early 80’s in MA so I took advantage in Florida. I started buying in 1999 I could see the growth and what was happening. I killed in in Dec of 05 when I sold everything. You are also great with how you trade G/S when one gets stronger than the other.
But, I think you’re lost with some other subjects like this one. You seem fine we are trading with our biggest enemy, communist China. We should not be trading with them, we should be making Mexico stronger and maybe some to the south of them. By trading with them we are making them stronger and us weaker. Not alright with me. We are going down the crapper right now because of the corrupt American oligarchs and their paid for greedy puppet liberal politicians on both sides who sold us out. Not alright with many Americans. Yup it would be terrible for a few years if we broke off from commie China but in the long run Americans win. Come on Mish, toughen up please.
This garbage with Russia should have never happened, we have been provoking them for years. More like our corrupt oligarchs that need to go, have been. Their people are more like us than most countries, we should have been friendly instead of provoking them all the time. Oligarchs all over the world need to go, they are the problem with the world. We don’t need their one world government. This is a wake up call for every person on this planet, fight back now, it’s time.
Portlander2
Portlander2
3 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
“By trading with them we are making them stronger and us weaker.”
Trade is generally a win-win. [There are obviously some important political, supply chain and national security caveats to this.] But over all, not only will our manic use of sanctions to multiple countries adversely impact the U.S.; but by creating this “us-them” dynamic it will adversely impact our many trading partners in the Pacific Rim–Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. They are even more integrated into the Chinese supply chain than we are (particularly Taiwan). When you sever trade connections you bring about all kinds of “anti-synergies”, many not knowable until the unravelling has happened. The global economic ecosystem is extremely complex, and you can’t just change one thing.
Our dim witted leaders think they are smarter than they are. I agree with Mish that Biden will ultimately fail at trying to prevent China from getting the latest chip technology. I don’t see a coherent game plan for getting the kind of sustained multi-national alignment that will be needed. We are trying to undo decades of pro-China trade policy with the sledge hammer of sanctions.
This may give Biden some “preparation H” short term political relief. Over use of economic sanctions will ultimately go against U.S. interests, and we can only hope they’ll do minimal damage by being ineffective.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
anyone still caught up in the D v R, pom pom girl squad, i have but one blessing. you have been HAD. the middlebrows for centuries have been divided and conquered by their betters.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Most people can’t get by without somebody to hate and fear.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
And those you hate or fear, you call kook?
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
No. I don’t hate or fear kooks, any more than any other mentally ill person. I’m cruel enough to enjoy mocking them though.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
in the same time
“Everybody wants to hop on the BRICS Express”
happypuppy888
happypuppy888
3 years ago
Biden launches? At best, Biden only lounges. In his special WH rocker, licking on ice cream from Basking and Robins.
The money and power obsessed cabal behind Biden launches. Hate, division and wars around the globe. Funded by the hapless US taxpayer.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  happypuppy888
Quoting Sun Tzu is becoming popular… Biden’s strategy:
“Convince your enemy that he will gain very little by attacking you; this will diminish his enthusiasm.”
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
This will accelerate the invasion of Taiwan and probably WW3. Way to go Brandon.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
China will still get the chips by way of Africa, South/Central America and Europe!!!!
GodfreeRoberts
GodfreeRoberts
3 years ago
In 2015, Xi publicly raised the alarm about China’s dependence on foreign chip IP. Their 40 years of patent expertise was and is a formidable barrier to entry.
Then he “wasted” $52 billion (from reserves of $3 trillion) on next-gen startups, some of which were scams, most of which failed.
But one of them wasn’t and didn’t.
Next year Xi will open the world’s first photonic chip fab., ushering a brave new world of high speed, low power computing. (“World’s First Photonic Chip Fab.. opens in Beijing next year”).
Xi also gave the country’s quantum computing team $10 billion upfront (to Biden’s $1.5 billion) to iron out the remaining barriers to commercializing quantum computing.
Huge, rich cities are bidding for pieces of this enormous pie, and the new Prime Minister will decide, partly because he’s a PhD engineer and gifted administrator. Shenzen has formed a cross-disciplinary team, housed them in a dream campus, invited post-docs from around the world…you know the rest.
Fish1
Fish1
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
You rendered an incomplete list of Xi credentials. You left out totalitarian, fascist & dictator. In the end this will prove disastrous for China because being lorded over doesn’t work like it used to.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
Strangely enough when you study who and where the research is on photonic chips you find that 90% is in Western and Western-allied countries and few on mainland China. Godfree Roberts has his own blog on substack and has authored an impressive list of books such as “Why China Leads the World”, “How to Retire in Thailand and Double Your Income”, “Medical Insurance in Thailand”, “dealing with Dengue” (wonder where he caught that?) and a few others mainly about managing to live with tropical diseases and how to make money in Thailand. All this makes me believe that he is an expert in a field he never studied nor worked and that his claim to knowing about photonics comes from in his words “visiting China a lot over the years”.
Your books on Amazon;
Looks like in your old age you are looking for a new revenue stream.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
The key for China’s adoption of western tech has been the cooperation of foreign corps wanting into the market, training Chinese nationals in western schools, use of western contractors and outright theft. The question is whether they have built enough internal capability to be sustainable and how long business is going to keep on transferring knowledge.
A big weakness is the Chinese language. They think and write in pictures. That is a problem for sophisticated technological work. Copying only takes you so far and there are many misunderstandings of the copied material.
To slow China down, also need to keep their students from returning from the west to China after college and a decade of corporate training. That is a key technology transfer.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
“Next year Xi will open the world’s first photonic chip fab”
The less Xi has to do with it, the more likely it may actually amount to something…..
“China” is currently beating “The West” because “The Chinese” are freer than “Westerners.” As in, Xi is less involved, in pretty much anything in China, than Biden is in the US.
The silly notion that any meaningful economic outcome depends on what Xi, or Biden, or Musk, or any other haflwitted, self promoting clown happens to think or do, is by now largely a Western one. Only here, are the saps so thoroughly indoctrinated, that they believe any of the above have the competence to do anything whatsoever useful. “The Chinese” OTOH mostly just go about solving the problems of their field without such pathetic deference nor hero-worship. Hence end up occasionally actually solving something. Rather than just “investing” stolen loot in, and pontificating about, som gaggle of illiterate “dear leaders” who supposedly will solve everything in a few years. Always in a few years, of course……
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Trump increases China tariffs despite warnings of “trade wars”.
That said, Bolton, responsible for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou, is a complete moron on foreign policy (Iraq war), another one of Trump’s “best people” that he wound up firing for not being extreme/corrupt enough.. the irony.
Taiwan exports 10 times the advanced chips China does, adding tariff’s to China further enhances Taiwan’s advantage.
China reacts by threatening, and potentially invading Taiwan, potentially monopolizing the global chip sector for China.
In response, Biden imposes an American chip export ban to China.
America has the technology to make those chips Taiwan makes, we just don’t have workers with wages of $10/day.
China has the economic & technological disadvantage, but has military volume.
Time to make some popcorn.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
TSM and ASML no longer sell China. XOM left Russia. The two weeks B61-12 widia/ nuclear drill will end on Sun. The worst
earning report in two decades, since the dotcom collapse, but the market popped up. Next week SS will send double doses of anti inflation checks, while JP is raising rates. Biden is Trump.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
The B61-12 now in production is aptly named “B61-12 Life Extension Program”. Seriously! A multi-functional nuclear bomb with precision targeting.
Cocoa
Cocoa
3 years ago

Taiwan is the real chip power here. All this will do is drive China into invading Taiwan and when we will have nothing because the United States couldn’t make a chip if they threw everything and the kitchen sink at their manufacturing base We just don’t know how here. So once again the brilliance of the Democrats is driving Russia towards China and Russia is all the material resources and China has all the knowledge base and manufacturing and the United States has nothing except 45 different genders.

MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
Factory workers in Taiwan make ~ $2K/year, cost is the issue, not “know-how”.
GodfreeRoberts
GodfreeRoberts
3 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
Not so fast. See my bad news in the comment above.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
If the reports are correct, TSMC is the undisputed leader in the field, followed by Samsung. Intel and Global Foundries (IBM) are years behind and falling. Chinese SMIC may be level with Intel.
What’s the sauce for success? I guess a company run by engineering as opposed to share buyback jockeys?
TSMC founder told Pelosi US chip-making efforts ‘doomed to fail’ during Taiwan trip.
Steve_R
Steve_R
3 years ago
Intel is the safer bet here. Even with TSMC in AZ
Intel which will start production using its 20A process node in 2024. Bought 25calls 3 years out on intel last week, too cheap to past up.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve_R
Nothing puts a man in his place more than watching his cheap options expire worthless.
Best of luck.
Steve_R
Steve_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
can sell premium against this position for 3 years, sorry you do not understand options, will make the cost back just on that alone, by the way up 20 percent already.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve_R
Traded equity options of all sorts and commodity futures straddles for years.
Now it’s time to spend money.
As I said, best of luck.
Portlander2
Portlander2
3 years ago
Reply to  Steve_R
TMSC in AZ means that “Silicon Shield” may become “Silicon Sieve.” Then, Taiwan won’t be worth attacking or defending.
I’ve always thought U.S. policy was driven by Taiwan’s oligarchs more than the people of Taiwan. Do the people really want to be the theatre of another disastrous proxy war?
Naphtali
Naphtali
3 years ago
The backfire is arriving early for Christmas! The company I work for, associated with the chips industry, just had a rather formidable layoff. There will be more.
Fish1
Fish1
3 years ago
Reply to  Naphtali
What “chips” industry is that? I like large corn ones that go with guacamole. Your comment does not sound like a person working in that space.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
My gawd, Mish, for once would you PLEASE go out on a limb and tell us 5 things you’d to thwart Communist China?
Like really, dude, it’s easy to throw stone but WAY harder to come up with solutions.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
1. Restrict access of Chinese capital to US universities with advanced technology programs.
2. Instead of cancelling student loans, provide merit-based scholarships/fellowships in STEM degrees.
3. Limit Chinese students to non-Research I universities
4. Actively recruit top-quality students from Asian countries, except China…
5. Investment in STEM research is 110% deductible.
6. Restrict US citizens from conveying strategic research/knowledge to China
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
#1, #3, #4 hurt the US more than China
#6 in place and not working
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The US should’ve learned the lesson of NOT supporting China’s research agenda after Wuhan! Now, as the US and China edge closer to war, it might ‘behoove us’ ( a popular military term) to think about guarding key technologies.
University administration does not want to talk about it, but so-called collaboration is largely a farce–the amount of intellectual property theft by China from US universities is vast. In the long run, it is far more dangerous than any industrial espionage China does.
#1
Chinese capital comes with a price greater than the ‘capital’–Chinese are not funding sports programs or human sexuality degrees. They are ‘buying’ US universities to advance their own interests–the technology goes direct to China. Worse, US universities are opening branch campuses in China, facilitating technology transfer for a fist full of dollars.
#3 and 4
Research 1 universities are a unique breed. See the list, and types here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States
Not all Research 1 Doctoral Universities are equal. A few dozen have great strategic importance, along with very little security. China has the money to pay tuition, and they arrive in large numbers, often with faked test scores. Recruiting more high-IQ STEM students from other countries (India, Taiwan, South Korea etc) would actually help the US, and reduce dependence on China over time.
#6
Right, it is not working. But why? Nowadays, most US faculty/administrators are liberal–naive and collaborative by nature, with little interest in strategic decision making. Ever sat in on a faculty meeting, or worse a meeting of deans? Woke group-think is apropos.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Sorry for being so blunt, but that response completely paints you as a communist, Mish! I know that’s kind of mean to say, but your response is terrible and completely ignores my challenge: give us your top 5 instead of responding to someone else’s great ideas.
I’m a HS math teacher, and I would add to Captain’s point about restricting access that America needs to, like a lot of areas, wake the F up about our education system. Biden letting 10 million illegal immigrants is, among many other bad consequences, going to destroy America’s education system by stretching budgets and already overworked teachers. Along with the open borders this is more than enough to impeach him. America would be a completely different country if Reagan hadn’t gone down the amnesty path and had built a wall and shut down illegal immigration and cut drug flows into the US. 36 years of letting illegal immigrants run the construction industry has been totally devastating economically. The lost taxes & monies remitted back to south of the border are just staggering.
We need to have two HS graduation tracks: blue-collar & college. We’re trying to send WAY too many kids to college. The blue-collar track graduates after 10th grade with the option to stay in HS 1-2 years to take only job specific training that can be partnered with local technical colleges & paid for by local school funds. The main point is that we stop expecting these students take upper-level core classes that they don’t need. And most importantly, our students have to be pushed harder and held accountable. The liberal mindset is ruining American education. It’s turning it into group think giving everyone excuse after excuse to act like their feelings are hurt by listening to opposing ideas. And like Captain says, the key is producing more students capable of excelling in the STEM track. It’s getting so bad that eliminating or restricting access to liberal arts MAJORS almost seems necessary.
Right now, China is laughing their asses off to almost everything about America these days. They know our days as the top dog are numbered. And finally, they can see our God given rights being eroded, making us more like the CCP without us even realizing it with this fake feeling of freedom.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
No one. And I means no one can give me a right I already had. And rights are not eroded. I can be prevented from exercising a right but it cannot be taken away.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
BS! Tell that to all the people that lost their jobs because they wouldn’t take the death jab.
I’ve read many of your posts in the past, I generally agree with your points of view.
This one sounds idealistic / abstract.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
idiotic. you sound like a chinese spy planting this hooey. thanks comrade, but no thanks.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I appreciate criticism; however you need to be more specific. What exactly is ‘hooey’, and why?
We hear about very few cases of actual spying–MIT’s Chen for example–who was wrongfully accused of spying for China, and goes on to develop cubic boron arsenide (may replace silicon for semiconductors). That is NOT hooey. However, given that Chen was working on it was likely known in China, causes impetus to have research done there.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Well there’s the case of the Chinese Motorola engineer caught at the airport going home with $20-40k in cash a a bunch of CDs containing hardware and software documents labeled Proprietary and Confidential and Internal Use Only.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I LOVE all of those ideas, but there has to be economic consequences. Stopping the IP transfer is absolutely important.
IMO, the best way you hurt China is to either onshore jobs back to the US or get more from US friendly countries that can produce goods competitively with China, especially in critically important areas such as medical PPE & drugs, solar panels, wind mills, etc.
We have to move on rare earth metals.
But, again, we’ve got to do things that hurt them economically that in turn help us from being so dependent on them. Significant, strategic economic nationalism that also emphasizes new partnerships is an absolute must.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Long term, the US must maintain/increase its innovation rate, while it builds a global productive base. Losing Taiwan will be a major problem, yet not insurmountable if the US/allies can inshore high value-added manufacturing.
Innovation as the basis for the future means, among other things, identifying and recruiting very intelligent/creative people, high quality education, a stimulating and supportive environment, abundant opportunities for risk-laden research… What the US does not need is a government more interested in bottom-feeder migrants, and woke-universities that resist all ‘conservative thought’.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Absolutely agreed.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
The idea is that when you don’t press somebody to urgently do something, then it will not move due to inertia.
When you declare war on somebody, that forces it to go to overdrive to push back.
China has the capacity to push back.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago

The US is just pushing back. Surely we are allowed to do that.

FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
….go cross the ocean and help your, by now, suicidal criminal nation, ‘pushing back’ a lil’l bit…fair deal ain t it ?
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
As GodfreeRoberts who posts here detailed, China entered WTO on neo-colonial terms.
The rest, the offshoring, was done by Western corporations and banksters. But then, China had a plan and they didn’t.
Sure, other third world contries are under same rules, but China didn’t see herself as another ordinary third world country any more.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
I wouldn’t expect China to have done things differently and China should not expect us to not react either. I never faulted China for obtaining technology and markets by even shady means because if the situation had been inversed we would have done the same thing so you can’t fault us for doing the necessary to keep our markets and possibly increase our technological advances either.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Why do you use him as a reference? Can’t you find one that is credible? There are some out there that are.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Godfree didn’t express his opinion, he referenced terms of Chinese entry into WTO, which you can verify independently if you wish.
Stick to your reliable sources, and I will stick to mine.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Your source has some expertise in living in Thailand as an ex-pat but that’s about all. Find someone serious at least.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Some people do not understand how far China has come in a short period of time. Few ask why, and when they do they blame US corporations offshoring production so Americans could buy more for less. The answer may be found here:
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
There are roughly three categories of cultures:
1. Those who can design and manufacture.
2. Those who can be transfered and absorbed manufacturing methods.
3. Those who can do neither.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
I couldn’t give a flying F that China can push back. And to be clear, I’m not suggesting we “declare” economic war on China. Rather, what I’m proposing will take time. China didn’t declare way on us. Rather, they created a long-term plan that is working to perfection. At some point, if we continue down the current path, they’re going to own us and then we won’t have the capacity to push back.
We can’t sit back and let inertia do it’s thing. Something has to be done, but unfortunately it won’t, since America is so politically & socially divided.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
“5 things you’d to thwart Communist China?”
No need for 5 things. 1 is all that is required:
Stop being much, much, much more communist, i every single way, than China is.
That’s it! Done. Solved. For now, and for all future….
The freest country wins. It’s kind of sad that China is now so much freer than America, than they’re not only “winning.” They are doing so virtually by walkover.
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
So the Aluminum tariffs caused 1.7 billion to go from the beer can company to the aluminum producers.
Looks like it’s working to me. What portion of the tariff makes up the new can of IPAs that cost $9?
I don’t think the consumer cares.
nic9075
nic9075
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Is it $9.00 a can for a six pack , 12 pack??
One IPA drink at a bar is no where near $9.00
I would say the $9.00 IPA for a six or twelve pack is a great deal
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
What bothers me is the billions that had to go from my beer-making company to the beer can company. Then my beer-making company had to recover those costs somewhere…
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Who wishes to fight must first count the cost. Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
All wars are won or lost before they are ever fought. Same guy
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Both parties are onboard for deglobalization because it hasn’t worked as advertised and the world in which it was imagined no longer exists if it ever existed at all. It’s called adapting to new circumstances.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Never trust a political party, or a politician. They say what you want to hear, and do what they want.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Globalization worked, sometimes.
You are not paying $250 for a package of 4 lightweight tee shirts.
Apparently it did not work for athletic shoes.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
It did reduce pricing, but not to the extent that consumer prices reflected the wages lost in outsourced jobs, that savings went to C-suite salaries and share buybacks. The Fed was kind enough to reduce the cost of servicing the consequential rise in household debt to “stabilize employment” via debt fueled consumption.
Business Man
Business Man
3 years ago
I remember people telling me they voted for Biden to “get things back to normal.”
My response was to “watch what they do, not what they say.”
Ccichocki
Ccichocki
3 years ago
I don’t see the point of blaming Trump or Biden. They both make these awful calls because they believe it gets them votes. It’s some number at least close to half of Americans that should shoulder the blame. When we’re at war with China we’ll all be sorry win or lose.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  Ccichocki
You still think presidents are in charge after this last election? Do you really think Biden is running things? Presidents are selected. FDR. This isn’t even our first absolutely no doubt mentally gone president either. Wilson probably didn’t even know he was president a lot of the time. Just like Biden.
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Who selected Biden?
Trump?
And if Hillary ran any kind of decent campaign, she would have won. In that case, who would have selected Hillary?
Who is this almighty who?
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
More like a group. Those campaign contributions come with a price. To become president you basically have to be the biggest whore in the country. Wilson was owned by the banks. Hence, the FED. Are you really this ignorant about life? Your ignorance on how the world works is what keeps you a slave. Politics is the practical application of mind control. Which is also what the root words of government mean: mind control. But you probably think that’s just a coincidence.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
We have the best government money can buy. Until that changes we will continue to circle the drain.
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
There is no unified “who”
There is an industrial military complex faction, public union faction, abortion rights faction, abortion opponents faction, progressive faction, real estate faction, bank faction, conservative Christian faction, etc, etc, all with differing goals.
One of them wins every year, and it changes. Progressives won in 2020 over Trump. They stand to get clobbered in 2022.
But yeah, Biden is not in charge. Warren may as well be on domestic policy, someone else on foreign policy.
But Warren sure was not in charge over Trump, and I doubt anyone was. He made of mess of things because he could not figure out who to listen to.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
“There is an industrial military complex faction, public union faction, abortion rights faction, abortion opponents faction, progressive faction, real estate faction, bank faction, conservative Christian faction, etc, etc, all with differing goals.”
And the one with the most money has greater chances of winning campaigns and rule of law via lobbying, because “money is free speech”, money also buys the flow of internet information….”Internet influencing” is a great paying job now.
Whole countries are getting into the game now,
.
TheWindowCleaner
TheWindowCleaner
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The bank faction is the only one that matters. They dominate the system so thoroughly with their monopoly monetary paradigm that all of the other factions pale in comparison. The perfect example of this was the GFC when the banksgot bailed out and the people had to either go bankrupt or sit on a couple hundred thousand of disequity…and like it. In the words of Dick Durban: Finance owns the joint.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The only factions that matter are the permanent national security state faction and the Wall Street faction. The rest are irrelevant.

The progressives didn’t win anything in 2020. Look at how they got hammered when they made the meekest and the weakest possible suggestion about a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine mess.

Warren, or any other so-called progressive, can make all the noise they want to, vis a vis domestic policy. It doesn’t matter because at the end of it all, their “achievement” can be summed up to a nice round number – zero.

vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER. mish still doesn’t get that the Bankers rule. the MIC is their bitch. the rest is eyewash. stating progressives v trump is silly and really naive. MISH, you are smart and good at real estate. but you are very naive about the FED and who owns it. you think they are dumb. guess what, you have been HAD. no big deal. 95% of middlebrows have been HAD for past century. just take a number and get on line, for re education camp. we’ll fix ya. please laugh old sport.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
“Progressives won in 2020 over Trump”
Biden stole his way into office. He didn’t win fair & square like Trump did in 2016, and I don’t particularly like Trump’s cult of personality.
mrchinup
mrchinup
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Gas 2 bucks, no inflation, much better immigration policy, no wars, destroyed ISIS, lowest unemployment 50 years, stop Mish you’re making yourself look stupid again. Delete my account. ..
TheWindowCleaner
TheWindowCleaner
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
It doesn’t matter who is president. They all have to follow the rules of the current dominating force in the economy, namely Finance. Finance rules 95% of the general populace and every other business model other than themselves, and they don’t even have to conspire to do so because they enjoy the monopolistic paradigm of Debt Only for the creation and distribution of new money. You’re against monopolies, right Mish?
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
I thought that was obvious over the past few presidential elections. Somehow the best 2 candidates in the USA are always the dumbest people on Earth. Who ever is in control has to be laughing their butts off.
Naphtali
Naphtali
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Ah, democracy. That is why we are supposed to be a constitutional republic. Aggressive advertising can even make Hitler look like a great mensch for the distracted masses.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
When Trump won in 2016, it was unlikely he would have a second term. Not because he was an outsider… It would take him the first term to realize the ‘government’ is deeply corrupt, and the essential role of mass media in propaganda. This is the ‘Sixth Estate’, the media-political-public servant Gestapo of the 21st century. This is the ‘WHO”.
Remember how Trump pointed out media bias?
With a second term, Trump would have nothing to lose. Ergo, he had to go, asap. History backs this up.
BTW, that corruption mentioned above became painfully obvious with Clinton, DNC, and government collusion over RussiaGate. Since then, the Hunter laptop has justified Trump’s invention in Ukraine, demonstrating how Dept of State vilified Trump in the rush to support Biden.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I don’t know why a politician running for office wouldn’t outline a plan to eliminate this fetid swamp in DC. It extends to every little nook and cranny nationally. My suggestion is to eliminate all campaign donations and have the govt fund every campaign equally. Also limit the corrupt parasites to one longer term only. I don’t understand why there is no impetus to fix the f’ed up system we are currently victims of.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
Trump was never a politician. ZERO experience in government. He trusted the people around him. Eventually, he learned the media was 99% against him, that government employees stood in his way, and even some in his own party.

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