California vs Ohio Pig Farmers, the Supreme Court Will Hear the Case

Ohio Pig Farmers vs State of California 

Please consider Ohio Pig Farmers Didn’t Get a Vote on California’s Proposition 12

The Supreme Court will hear “the bacon case” on Oct. 11. National Pork Producers Council v. Ross challenges California’s Prevention of Cruelty to Farm Animals Act, also known as Proposition 12. It’s an ill-conceived and unconstitutional 2018 law that attempts to use the Golden State’s enormous market power as leverage to regulate pig farming nationwide.

California lawmakers often presume they know what’s best—in this case for pigs and pig farmers across the country. State regulators are currently training inspectors to disperse across the nation to enforce California’s rules. Out-of-state farmers must certify that their products are compliant with Proposition 12 to be sold in California.

Proposition 12 pressures pork producers to adopt California’s rules, even when those rules prohibit activities that are explicitly legal in the farmers’ own states. With more than 99% of the pork consumed in California coming from out-of-state farms, the practical effect of California’s Proposition 12 is to regulate out-of-state farmers.

Beyond its arrogance, California’s Proposition 12 violates the Constitution’s Commerce Clause. Farmers in Ohio and 48 other states shouldn’t be forced to endure this insult.

California is training its inspectors to travel to other states and impose its rules elsewhere. 

The arrogance is stunning and ridiculous. 

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

Please Subscribe!

Like these reports? I hope so, and if you do, please Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

If you have subscribed and do not get email alerts, please check your spam folder.

Mish 

Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

Comments to this post are now closed.

72 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Call_Me
Call_Me
3 years ago

“Beyond its arrogance, California’s Proposition 12
violates the Constitution’s Commerce Clause.”

Would the ‘ban’ on new internal combustion engine vehicles
in California also violate said clause? Prop 65 resulted in labels/”warnings” on a myriad of products, a simple solution would be to do something similar and label incoming meat that
isn’t in compliance. “HSC section 25990 prohibits a farm owner or
operator from knowingly causing any covered animal to be confined in a cruel
manner, as specified, and prohibits a business owner or operator from knowingly
engaging in the sale within the state of shell eggs, liquid eggs, whole pork
meat or whole veal meat, as defined, from animals housed in a cruel manner.

Without taking a deep dive into the text, improving living
conditions for livestock in industrial settings would have merit. Conditions in some of those places are unconscionable.

Interstate commerce has always been tricky. Here is an
example that some find outrageous, with the added bonus of illustrating how
much the dollar has been devalued over the past 80 years:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/317/11

(or ‘cliff notes’ summary according to some internet author)

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/wickard-v-filburn/

Call_Me_Al

rhcaldwell
rhcaldwell
3 years ago
Gotta say, as one who lived in CA for 30 years, they absolutely have the right to regulate what’s sold in the state. If other states want to align their standards to CA for their own benefit, by all means, they should go ahead. But suggesting that CA cannot regulate, or that it is somehow offensive to those outside of the state, is illogical. Oh, state’s rights n’all, remember?
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  rhcaldwell
I made a similar observation living in Massachusetts, a family friend had to remove a newly installed boiler that wasn’t approved by the state and replace it on inspection, cost him thousands.
Whether I agree or not, that’s what happened.
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
California doesn’t have a sovereign interest in regulating farm animals in other states. If its regulations are allowed to stand, why couldn’t it also prohibit the sale of goods from companies that don’t comply with its CO2 emissions caps? Or why couldn’t Texas ban the sale of meat by slaughterhouses that employ undocumented workers?
California’s law will invite more extraterritorial regulation by other states and open up interstate regulatory battles that will disrupt commerce and further polarize politics.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
“Or why couldn’t Texas ban the sale of meat by slaughterhouses that employ undocumented workers?”

That would mean they all become vegetarians?! LOL

MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
At first glance, thought you were talking about cars CO2 emissions.
A state could technically refuse items based on remote manufacturing practices, child sweat shops for example … I highly doubt any state would deny essential goods based on unrealistic standards, but it is possible.
California alone has been responsible for price increases across the board for a variety of goods & appliances as mfg’s have to reconfigure or add sensors, etc.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Let California train all the inspectors it wants. Doesn’t mean you have to let them on your property to inspect anything. The only legal inspectors that have to be allowed are Ohio ones.
If I was an Ohio farmer I’d just tell California, buy it or don’t based on Ohio inspection standards. If California doesn’t buy it, someone else will. Food is a net zero (meaning you don’t stock up on excess pigs) so if Cali buys elsewhere, then who someone else will step in to buy what Cali didn’t.
bayleaf
bayleaf
3 years ago
An Ohio win would be a travesty because ultimately this is about the feds overreaching authority over the states. States should be able to do whatever they damn please. The fact that SCOTUS is hearing this means that it is about more than the pigs.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Reply to  bayleaf
SCOTUS is now on a mission to undo regulations everywhere. EPA is going to be neutered soon.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
No one elected Fauci. No one elected Woodcock. Per the Constitution, Congress makes the laws, not bureaucratic agencies.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
And it should be ‘neutered’. Agencies make regulations, enforce regulations, and decide outcomes. The Constitution separated legislative, executive, and judicial functions to prevent abuse/excesses.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Steve Kirsch noted that Dr. Paul Marik, a top doctor who lost his license to practice medicine, after suing his hospital for the right to practice medicine on his Covid patients, has an H-factor of 105. Kirsch noted the average Nobel Prize recipient has an H-factor of 40. The most published cardiologist, Dr. McCullough was just permanently banned from Twitter. Marik is highly published, as well. These are the people who should be receiving a Nobel Prize, for standing up to the corruption in the medical field.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago

The Nobel Prize is now a participation trophy.

Call_Me
Call_Me
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
A little late on that. The former Droner-in-Chief getting his back in ’08 highlighted the farce (and I presume there are earlier examples). Imagine the Lord of TNT would be ashamed to have his name associated with the modern awards.
The “science” of economics has a long track record of self-aggrandizing that would make Hollywood blush. At least he wasn’t bestowed the award for his actions in this century.
Call_Me_Al
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Keeping in mind that a car (or whatever) made in China (or elsewhere) and sold in California must meet their emission standards, means as much to me as just about everything I buy carries a warning label that it causes cancer in California… I really don’t give a f&^k. That said, it would seem highly likely that such specific requirements get priced into the goods sold in California, or not sold at all there. Whatever the outcome, it costs me nothing.
Therefore,
Billy Bob, pig farmer, can put 13% of his sows into approved enclosures, and price the animal accordingly. If California wants happy sows, California pays extra for it.
Cocoa
Cocoa
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
That is probably the best workaround and makes sense. CA is big business. Now CA and global elites want to trainwreck meat industry for Gates wormpacks, so this is part of the strategy
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
At first I wanted to do my best imitation of Greta and say in a voice dripping with indignation “How dare you!” but then I realized that this is exactly the type of question the Supreme Court should be ruling on since it is really not about pigs and California but about whether one state can impose its standards on other states. It is not an obvious call since states already have been doing that in other industries and services and have been doing it since the beginning of the Republic and a ruling on the Pig Question will necessarily affect other industries in the future.
California is a big market but keep in mind that it is only 12% of the population and a little more in GDP so companies can not sell in California and still prosper. I don’t think that is the problem though. Agriculture is dominated by a handful of large companies now and not individual farmers so an update on the interstate commerce laws is probably overdue.
Personally I am for the Ohio pig farmers because I was born in the state and I am sure that any Ohio pig farmer is worth ten pig farmers from California which we can see since there is no pig farming in California anymore because they just couldn’t compete with the Ohio pig farmers and now California is using regulations to make up for their pig farming incompetence.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
I’m with the Californians on this – they are definitely the experts when it comes to pork
Rbm
Rbm
3 years ago
Ever have kobi beef. Happy cows make happy burgers. In this case happy pigs make happy bacon.
Yeah kind of over the top. Maybe in this case ca should offer both and let the consumer decided.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Rbm
That brings the question are Californians tastier than Ohioans? Perhaps we should select a group of both and expose them to various predators and see if they prefer eating one group over the other. The tests could be held in sports stadiums with spectators to witness the animals’ preferences thus eliminating accusations of biases. Science should used to answer that burning question of who is better, Californians or Ohioans.
Cocoa
Cocoa
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
This may even win Nobel Prize! Look, Ben Bernanke won, Krugman won. This research is invaluable.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
I graciously accept the nomination.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
This is Cali’s to win, Ohio farmers have the choice to not sell there, I find it strange this even got to the SCOTUS.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
No worries, when California wins, expect more inflation. Not safer pork that is more appeasing to the palette.
Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
3 years ago
Gee, USDA inspectors are in Argentina right now, certifying this year’s contract abattoirs.
If people want to sell cars to Californians, they must certify them as CA-compliant.
Why not living animals?
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
These libertarians are all A-OK with mega corporations dictating terms to cities and states and suppliers and even customers. If anyone complains, they chide them for opposing “success”. Well, California can dictate terms too because of the size of its economy. Deal with it!
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
“California lawmakers often presume they know what’s best”
California has a GDP of 3.5 trillion.
Ohio has a GDP of 817 billion.
I’ll take California rules over Ohio’s any day of the week.
There seems to be frequent hate for California here and while I don’t live in the state it seems very unwarranted given their population and GDP. Clearly the state has been doing something better than nearly all the other states combined: making money (and attracting people/talent).
And before anyone asks, yes making money is the only thing that really matters.
It’s the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
I love when the California GDP is mentioned, “they’d be the third biggest country economy in the world” or some such. But I’m always disappointed waiting for them to secede or fall into the Pacific Ocean.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Avery
If they secede or fall into the Pacific Ocean, it’s likely you would go broke. The east coast and west coast states support the vast majority of all the other state leeches in the country. It wouldn’t even take all the states, just New York and California alone would bankrupt you. Actually, just a few of the major cities would do it. GDP says it all.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Thanks for that link. I see that California is #6 in terms of per capita GDP, behind such states as North Dakota and Washington, and not all that far ahead of economic powerhouses such as Alaska, Wyoming and Nebraska. Not surprisingly, though, the true laggards in GDP per person are all in the SE.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Avery
Sour grapes.
amigator
amigator
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
This could be a great thing for pig farmers. Make a portion of their farm complaint with rule and double the prices to Cali. After all Cali can afford it.
ajc1970
ajc1970
3 years ago
Reply to  amigator
Kinda wanna start a pig ranch just to gouge Californians
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  amigator
Yes, you could charge more. But note that it also costs more to reach compliance.
amigator
amigator
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Spot on. Maybe have to more than double. Where is the beacon? This could be another reason to leave Cali!
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
This is not California vs Ohio. It’s more like California vs most the rest of the country where the pigs are raised so California probably doesn’t have enough gold to make the rules in this one.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Let them eat tofu and other soy products. Problem solved.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Well, states have restrictions on moving certain items in to the state: Fruit that might be carrying bad insects, for instance. So a certain amount of leeway is always granted counter to the constitution’s limitations. Exceptions should not set the norm though. Exceptions should stay exceptional.
But, is this an issue of transport across state lines (a federal issue) or an issue of what can be sold in-state? For instance, is CA stopping Ohio pig farmers from shipping their product through CA to the Pacific rim? If so, then Ohio has an honest beef with CA. But, if CA is just stopping Ohio product from being sold in CA, then that sounds reasonable. States have the right to make the sales or use of something illegal.
That CA inspectors might go to other states to more efficiently operate the system seems reasonable. Fussing about that is Twitter-level show-boating.
Now, as to whether this will cause higher prices in CA, or whether prices get high enough to trigger illegal sales, and if that’s the case, if the moral and social standing of CA police who enforce such prices … craters – that’s another story.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
“Out-of-state farmers must certify that their products are compliant with Proposition 12 to be sold in California.”

Well, don’t want to comply with that? OK, don’t sell in California. As simple as that. No one is forcing these farmers to sell their products in California.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Interestingly, pig farmers who are adopting more humane standards are making more money with a ‘competitive advantage’. Of course, that goes away if other farmers are forced to adopt happy-pig techniques…
Meanwhile, there is a great opportunity for ‘socially-motivated’ Hollywood. Look for Henny Penny, the Psychotic Chick, and Porky Pig Runs Amuck, to bring humaniated animals a theater near you.
Yooper
Yooper
3 years ago
Not sure what the issue here is.
CA puts limits on happy pig bacon, and the producers don’t want to conform to, then no bacon to CA…
Then again, Ohio has no right to force sales of bacon against the standards that CA imposes, even if the pig must have lipstick…
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
California consumes 13% of the nation’s pig supply, yet produces only 2%. Apparently, the issue hinges on the humane treatment of Porky and friends, passed by a majority of Californian voters. The particular issue has to do with sows and space…
“California’s regulations would ban pork sales in the state unless the
pigs were born to sows with at least 24-square-feet of space and an
ability to turn around.”
It seems we are not talking about happy pigs playing in mud.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I figure the average individual homeless shelter in California measures about six feet by four feet. That is 24 square feet per homeless person. Hypocrisy?
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Well the hobo does get to come and go as he pleases, but I don’t suppose you approve of that either.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
This has nothing to do with me approving, or not, but a statement of fact concerning the biased ethics of our species.
dtj
dtj
3 years ago
I’m going to be a contrarian and say that I support humane treatment laws if they’re done right. My state passed a cage free egg law and it has resulted in better quality eggs. No more factory farm tasteless white eggs.
I stopped eating chicken many years ago because it had become tasteless and gross to me. A chicken that matures in 33 days? No thanks.
Same goes with milk. I switched to organic milk circa 2000 after I figured out factory farm antibiotic, pus and hormone filled milk was giving me cystic acne. No such problems with organic milk and even though it’s twice as expensive it’s worth it.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  dtj
OK, I’ll bite and play the house Libertarian here.
Is anyone forcing you to buy inorganic milk? We all want the best for our fellows, but isn’t it a bit presumptuous of you to force everyone else to conform to your personal milk and egg preferences?
dtj
dtj
3 years ago
Reply to  Felix_Mish
I actually would support banning antibiotics and growth hormones in milk. That wouldn’t make it organic though. The egg laws are spreading nationwide so I think they’re inevitable. The 33 day chickens? Have at them.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Felix_Mish
There’s a public cost to poor health choices. This is why making all decisions purely based on money really is a narrow way of thinking and perceiving.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Safe and effective. It was a poor choice. I learned yesterday, that one of the three whistleblower D-Med doctors was injured by the Covid injection. Neurological. Meyelin (sp) sheath issue.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Regulating woke pigs; what’s next?
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Ahh there he is. There’s my Nazi.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You really don’t understand cynicism, do you?
There is no room in the Constitution for humane behavior. Prop 12 dictates a size for pens for pregnant and nursing sows, established so she could turn round. Considering this is a nation of people who love their pets…
LM2022
LM2022
3 years ago
Funny, libertarians always say that food regulation is the one type of regulation they support. Except not now. Why should Californians be forced to purchase substandard (by CA law) products they don’t want? You want to sell pig meat to loony Californians, follow the laws of the state.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
The libertarians are known for that. “Let the market decide”, they say. But when the market does exactly that, they cry foul.

They are frauds on their anti-war rhetoric as well. They are supposedly anti-war but they are against banning military hardware corporations funding the elections of those who decide when and where and with whom we go to war.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
The libertarians got drowned by the same wave of stupid that got the GOP. Only stupid and angry remains.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
This is true, Koch bros took over and rewrote Libertarianism into corporatism.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
Allowing Pepsi to sell Cola in California, in addition to Coke; does not “force” Californians to buy Pepsi.
Some Californians prefer California pork. Some Ohio pork.
Nothing is stopping those Californians who want to, from buying California pork.
Instead, what IS forcing, is banning those Californians who would rather buy Ohio pork, from doing so. For no other reason than to enrich the lobbyists who pitched in for Newsom’s latest BJ.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
If it is so important for a Californian to buy Ohio pork, they can move to Ohio – or wherever else Ohio pork is sold. No one is holding them back.
denker
denker
3 years ago
The EU tries to impose similar extraterritorial rules for manufactured, mining and agricultural products esp. clothing to fight sweatshops and child labor, This may be through ngos more than Brussels as i am not sure what legislation exists on an EU level.
Sologretto2
Sologretto2
3 years ago
What crazy spin.

Declaring that you will only import and allow for sale products that meet certain standards is standard trade policy. This isn’t regulating other states. It’s regulating products for sale in your state. Sellers have every right to tell CA to F off.

This would be like an bookkeeper suing because a customer wanted a CPA.

denker
denker
3 years ago
Reply to  Sologretto2
No BLTs for the west coast loonies. They are vegans anyway for the most part..
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  denker
California has 12% of US population and consumes 13% of US pork production.
denker
denker
3 years ago
Reply to  Sologretto2
Importation regulations, tariffs etc. are set at the Federal level. California may be violating interstate commerce rules. Hopefully Ohio retaliates. No Hollywood films showed in the state as they promote violence, perversion etc.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  Sologretto2
“Declaring that you will only import and allow for sale products that meet certain standards is standard trade policy.”
And “standard trade policy” is exactly, 100%, antithetical to anything even remotely resembling free trade. hence freedom.
“Declaring that you will only import…” is fine. Banning OTHERS from importing, is not. Therein lays the difference between something resembling a free society, and full blown, completely unconstrained totalitarianism.
But, but, but….. it’s, like, standard trade policy, to only allow for sale products that meet certain standards. Standards like being made by my son-in-law’s company who pays my dilettante kids to be dilettantes and, like, stuff….
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
“California is training its inspectors to travel to other states and impose its rules elsewhere.”
Don’t they call that tyranny?
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Why? They are not enforcing the rules on products being sold in other states; only for the products that are intended to be sold in California. If you don’t want to deal with them, don’t sell to them.
Siliconguy
Siliconguy
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
So set up a system similar to the way they mark kosher products. CA approved, or normal.
I don’t see a huge problem here. Let them eat tofu, or 3-D printed chemistry set bacon.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Siliconguy
Yes, slitting the throat of the animal while still alive is so much more moral and decent.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Except this is NOT about the means of slaughter. It concerns the space allowed for a pregnant sow to turn around.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
But if the sow has room to move around how will the Rabbi slit its throat? I eat only koshered pork, oysters and lobsters.

Stay Informed

Subscribe to MishTalk

You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.