CDC Reverses Guidelines
In a move sure to cause confusion the CDC Removes Guidelines Saying Coronavirus Can Spread From Tiny Air Particles.
For months, the CDC said the new coronavirus is primarily transmitted between people in close contact through large droplets that land in the mouths or noses of people nearby. On Friday, however, it added that tiny particles known as aerosols could transmit the virus.
Then abruptly on Monday, the CDC reversed course and removed the additions. Much of the guidelines’ earlier description of Covid-19 transmission, emphasizing spread via large droplets, was restored.The agency last week walked back a controversial recommendation that close contacts of Covid-19 patients don’t need to get tested if they don’t have symptoms.
“The tide had turned toward science when the CDC said” aerosol transmission is possible, said Joseph Allen, a health scientist and director of Harvard University’s Healthy Buildings program, which studies how buildings affect human health. “It was a watershed moment where people would believe this.” “To backtrack instantly is devastating,” he said.
Expert Opinion
Aerosol and respiratory viruses experts have been arguing for months that Covid-19 is an airborne virus, pointing to studies of outbreaks that have shown that the new coronavirus spread even when close contact among people was avoided.
More than 200 scientists asked public-health agencies, in a letter published in July in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases, to acknowledge airborne transmission of Covid-19.
Aerosol transmission makes sense given the super-spreader church and choir transmissions we have seen.
Huge?
I believe we need another spin to be sure.
Spin the Wheel
https://twitter.com/MungoAnd/status/1308090193304526854
Damn that Wheel, It Keeps Changing
What’s Going On?
Most likely Trump.
Transmission by aerosols impacts school and job reopenings.
It also impacts Trump’s stance on reasons to vote in person.
Mish
I see my take on it got deleted. What I’m seeing is too weird to be incompetence.
Let’s trust the science. ROTFL
I gather from his remarks that Mish thinks that the CDC is in Trump’s pocket and only does what he wants.
Am amazed he has the hutzpah to keep putting himself out there as a keen observer of US politics and finance.
Talk about not seeing what’s going on…..
Fauci and the CDC are undercutting him just like he got undercut with all the Russia crap. This is too weird to be incompetence.
Meanwhile the House Foreign Affairs Committee has just released a report stating that China and the WHO were responsible for suppressing information and causing the spread of COVID worldwide, just as Trump said they did….
Once again, Trump is right, and the Democrats are wrong. This time the Democrats are on the side who killed nearly a million people. On purpose!
I bet on my mask ( and my patients’ masks) saving my life every day when I show up for work. That’s how confident I am that masks work, if worn correctly and in concert with other good infection control practices. I’ve been saying COVID looked to be airborne since March. It isn’t as transmissible as say, measles or smallpox, but it’s very contagious for droplets alone. The numbers always supported some level of airborne transmission.
That’s crazy talk Eddie. Our President says it only affects old people. We don’t need no stinkin’ masks.
Repeated studies have failed to show a reduction in surgical site infections from wearing masks. Infection rates in fact increased, presumably from the false sense of security created.
Do you have any clue what causes wound infections? And exactly how completely irrelevant that factoid you just cited is , in this discussion?
Hint: I do not wear a mask to prevent wound infections.
You are right aerosol keeps the fear porn going with schools and offices – let’s crush the working poor! But, it 100% destroys the need for any mask – for an aerosol anything less than an N95 is worthless. Not that they work all that well for respiratory droplet – there are ZERO RCTs or studies outside of the lab that have a measurable impact in the reduction of spread – “may” and “might” is not science.
Mish, how much do the globalist interests pay you to for your public displays of Trump Derangement Syndrome. You stopped having any credibility with your readers long ago, so I hope it was worth it.
Didn’t work the first time, maybe it will work this time? Definition of insanity. Or politically, “We have no idea WHAT to do and we have to look like we are doing something, so here you go”.
Olivia Troye, a former aide to Vice President Pence and the White House coronavirus task force, tweeted she has seen some of these “changes” in guidelines occur firsthand.
“This is likely what happened:@CDCgov tried to warn & tell the truth, it didn’t fit the President’s narrative & someone got an angry call. This is so dangerous for the American people,” Troye wrote.
Scientific evidence and WHO do NOT support the CDC claims that they were forced to withdraw.
It is a black eye for CDC that those claims ever saw the light of day since they are ANTI-Science and if CDC would have let those claims stand CDC would have destroyed their reputation.
in short:
1.
Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 can occur during medical procedures that generate aerosols (“aerosol generating procedures”)
2.
There are lots of hypotheses, theories and models made by scientists who want to get things published but these are hypotheses and theories and models based on these hypotheses and theories.
3.
However, the proportion of exhaled droplet nuclei or of respiratory droplets that evaporate to generate aerosols, and the infectious dose of viable SARS-CoV-2 required to cause infection in another person are not known,
4.
To date, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by this type of aerosol route has not been demonstrated;
5.
Experimental studies have generated aerosols of infectious samples using high-powered jet nebulizers under controlled laboratory conditions.
These findings were from experimentally induced aerosols that do not reflect normal human cough conditions.
6.
other similar investigations in both health care and non-health care settings found no presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA; no studies have found viable virus in air samples.(29-36)
In even shorter:
CDC made a major mistake to put out the claim that Coronavirus spreads in aerosols and there is absolutely NO PROOF that Coronavirus spreads in Aerosols even though it has been detected in some studies in aerosols but it NEVER has been demonstrated that it spreads in aerosols and no studies have found viable virus in air samples.(29-36)
It seems those at CDC that put that CDC claim out WANTED to CAUSE PANIC that is NOT supported by Science or WHO.
Maybe it has something to do with this:
Out of 8,000 Federal Donations Made to PACs and Politicians by CDC Employees in the Last Five Years, FEC Records Show Only 5 Went to Republican Causes
You had me fooled until the last link. Even you can understand that Covid-19 is aerosolized in specific cases and spaces (mainly close quarters like bars, restaurants and airplanes) where air is recirculated.
The WHO has been late to the game on many acknowledgments. Suddenly now you are a fan of the WHO? Scientists have been complaining to the CDC for months that the virus ws airborne. This was no random gibberish. This was a carefully thoght update. Someone saw it , got angry , made a phone call and had it pulled, probably because it goes against Donald Trump’s narrative that the virus is under control. It’s also possible alarms went off because there aren’t enough n95 masks to go around should the ramifications of this alert sink in
From the WHO, I bolded the important parts:
Airborne transmission
Airborne transmission is defined as the spread of an infectious agent caused by the dissemination of droplet nuclei (aerosols) that remain infectious when suspended in air over long distances and time.(11) Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 can occur during medical procedures that generate aerosols (“aerosol generating procedures”).(12) WHO, together with the scientific community, has been actively discussing and evaluating whether SARS-CoV-2 may also spread through aerosols in the absence of aerosol generating procedures, particularly in indoor settings with poor ventilation.
The physics of exhaled air and flow physics have generated hypotheses about possible mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2 transmission through aerosols.(13-16) These theories suggest that 1) a number of respiratory droplets generate microscopic aerosols (<5 µm) by evaporating, and 2) normal breathing and talking results in exhaled aerosols. Thus, a susceptible person could inhale aerosols, and could become infected if the aerosols contain the virus in sufficient quantity to cause infection within the recipient. However, the proportion of exhaled droplet nuclei or of respiratory droplets that evaporate to generate aerosols, and the infectious dose of viable SARS-CoV-2 required to cause infection in another person are not known, but it has been studied for other respiratory viruses.(17)
One experimental study quantified the amount of droplets of various sizes that remain airborne during normal speech. However, the authors acknowledge that this relies on the independent action hypothesis, which has not been validated for humans and SARS-CoV-2.(18) Another recent experimental model found that healthy individuals can produce aerosols through coughing and talking (19), and another model suggested high variability between individuals in terms of particle emission rates during speech, with increased rates correlated with increased amplitude of vocalization.(20) To date, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by this type of aerosol route has not been demonstrated; much more research is needed given the possible implications of such route of transmission.
Experimental studies have generated aerosols of infectious samples using high-powered jet nebulizers under controlled laboratory conditions. These studies found SARS-CoV-2 virus RNA in air samples within aerosols for up to 3 hours in one study (21) and 16 hours in another, which also found viable replication-competent virus.(22) These findings were from experimentally induced aerosols that do not reflect normal human cough conditions.
Some studies conducted in health care settings where symptomatic COVID-19 patients were cared for, but where aerosol generating procedures were not performed, reported the presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in air samples (23-28), while other similar investigations in both health care and non-health care settings found no presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA; no studies have found viable virus in air samples.(29-36) Within samples where SARS-CoV-2 RNA was found, the quantity of RNA detected was in extremely low numbers in large volumes of air and one study that found SARS-CoV-2 RNA in air samples reported inability to identify viable virus. (25) The detection of RNA using reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR)-based assays is not necessarily indicative of replication- and infection-competent (viable) virus that could be transmissible and capable of causing infection.(37)
in short:
1.
Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 can occur during medical procedures that generate aerosols (“aerosol generating procedures”)
2.
There are lots of hypotheses, theories and models made by scientists who want to get things published but these are hypotheses and theories and models based on these hypotheses and theories.
3.
However, the proportion of exhaled droplet nuclei or of respiratory droplets that evaporate to generate aerosols, and the infectious dose of viable SARS-CoV-2 required to cause infection in another person are not known,
4.
To date, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by this type of aerosol route has not been demonstrated;
5.
Experimental studies have generated aerosols of infectious samples using high-powered jet nebulizers under controlled laboratory conditions.
These findings were from experimentally induced aerosols that do not reflect normal human cough conditions.
6.
other similar investigations in both health care and non-health care settings found no presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA; no studies have found viable virus in air samples.(29-36)
In even shorter:
CDC made a major mistake to put out the claim that Coronavirus spreads in aerosols and there is absolutely NO PROOF that Coronavirus spreads in Aerosols even though it has been detected in some studies in aerosols but it NEVER has been demonstrated that it spreads in aerosols and no studies have found viable virus in air samples.(29-36)
It seems those at CDC that put that CDC claim out WANTED to CAUSE PANIC that is NOT supported by Science or WHO.
Maybe it has something to do with this:
Out of 8,000 Federal Donations Made to PACs and Politicians by CDC Employees in the Last Five Years, FEC Records Show Only 5 Went to Republican Causes
I once read that you cannot contract HIV from mosquito bites. Although I do not think that you can, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Imagine trying to convince a doctor that you contracted HIV from a mosquito (name ‘Roberto’). Imagine trying to set up an experiment (that is ethical) to prove that mosquitoes carrying HIV infected blood will not transmit it to victims… This kind of stuff often presents immense challenges.
“absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”. Of course some people cannot understand this logic.
There are a number of C19 related things that have absolutely not been elucidated.
–One is the relative weight of various vectors (aerosol, droplet, oral-fecal, fomites).
–Another is the relative importance of transmission nodes and the reasons why (nursing homes, hospitals/care facilities, restaurants apparently not, etc).
–Another is the presence in sewage weeks before there are any cases, and persistent stories of earlier spread than the commonly accepted time-line.
These are not easy issues to ascertain, since tracing a transmission pathway is actually quite difficult to prove.
It is pretty clear now that the combined aerosol/droplet vector path is the key.
Fecal/oral and fomites transmission is relatively inefficient–how many surfaces have to be touched and fingers licked to transmit in the observed super-spreader events where, like in churches or other gatherings where the is little handling of common goods across masses of people.
It’s air volume, air movement, what percent of the total air volume in a space that moves in and out of the lungs of the people in that space.
Outdoors? Infinite air volume compared to lung volume.
Indoors? A finite amount of air compared to lung volume.
A return to indoor air this fall with low levels of air changes will push cases up.
Inefficient?
Polio has a higher R0 than C19 and is spread via the oral/fecal route, very efficiently. You can never know anything until it is tested empirically under stringent conditions. Note that fecal plumes can also spread very efficiently, 10 stories removed from the source.
In Japan/Korea they practise better anal hygiene (bidet spouts) and this could be just as well prove more important than mask-wearing.
Most likely the biggest spreading vector is fecal and this was found originally in two studies from China in Wuhan and in Hong Kong where the plumbing is bad in both in many buildings and there is no P-lock in the sinks to separate the plumbing from the air since they do not demand it and the builder can save 1-dollar per P-lock.
The studies showed that people that had NO contact with the people who were infected and living in the same building still got Covid so the only explanation is that since there was no P-locks in the sinks that when the ones who were sick flushed their toilets the shit particles spread to the other apartments and infected those with no contact to their sick neighbors or anybody else who was sick.
There has also been a study that recommends putting down the toilet seat lid when you flush because if one takes a shit and has coronavirus and flushes without putting down the toilet seat lid then the next user of that toilet might get it from the air or if they come a bit later from some surface in the toilet.
I am surprised that this has NOT been recommended widely in USA despite studies saying that it is a factor and many people flushing with the toilet seat lid up.
In those super-spreader events I bet many who got sick went to the toilet and that had been used right before or some time ago by someone with Covid who had flushed the toilet without putting the toilet seat lid down.
If people were empowered/allowed to make their own decisions to do what is best for themselves based on their situation it wouldn’t matter how many times the CDC has been wrong.
People can self-isolate if worried about Covid-19 to a degree not possible even 15 years ago. They can sit at home and order everything from Amazon. Why should 99.6% of the population suffer for the vast majority of patients that die via a combination of old age and comorbidities?
Freedom has risk, but there’s a significant % of the population that doesn’t want either.
Based on CDC stats under 10,000 people have died from Covid alone.
The rest had on average 2-3 comorbidities and Coronavirus was just the last straw on people who would have otherwise lived a few months or few years.
So if I shoot you and you’re also fat I’m not guilty of murder. Good to know.
When you characterize people’s statements in a ridiculous fashion as you’ve just done, who would want to discuss anything with you?
No draft. Drafts contain spelling or stylistic errors this was core
I like my work from home arrangement. My commute is very safe. I have no interruptions. I can play my radio. My office has a window with a nice view. So I hope my employer will agree with the findings that COVID-1 can be transmitted through aerosol.
Also at issue is the presumption that CDC is minimally competent. Like any government department, hard work, talent, creative thinking, creativity, responsibility, motivation… fall far short of salary levels.
Government: you get less than you pay for.
Example: at the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, CDC did not have enough masks. Their response: ‘you don’t need masks.’ The creative response: Trump announces here’s a website with patterns, these are the materials to use, for every mask you make at home, CDC will buy for $5. Take them to your local Walgreens… Distribute masks. In 3-4 days, there are more masks than the USA can use.
“Transmission by aerosols impacts school and job reopenings.”
Only if they want to continue to suppress herd immunity.
Only 17% of the passengers on the Diamond Princess got sick. It came out recently that upward of 50% of people may have T cell immunity, due to previous exposure to other corona viruses. 50 +17 is 67, which is considered to be the threshold of herd immunity.
Also, i saw a Sky News Youtube video the other day, which covered a story on a review of hydroxychloroquine studies. The review was positive toward HCQ.
From Dr. Zelenko’s study, early on, it was obvious to me that HCQ worked, in concert with zinc, when given at the first sign of symptoms.
Despite the debunking of a negative study that Lancet later retracted, the FDA has continued to block doctors from prescribing it to their patients. Politics, not medicine, rules.
According to the Henry Ford Hospitals study giving people who get sick enough that they need hospital admission hydroxychloroquine quickly after admission to hospital lovers the death rate over -50%:
According to studies countries where regular doctors widely prescribe hydroxychloroquine to Covid patients death rates are -89% lower:
If Hydroxychloroquine was widely prescribed in USA the business of Gilead from Remdesivir at 3000 dollars a dose would end since it provides NO BENEFIT in death rates and just shortens hospital stay by few days in people who would have survived anyway.
If Hydroxychloroquine was widely prescribed in USA the drug companies vaccine development would NOT be needed since there would be no market for a vaccine and therefore no hundreds of billions of dollars from the vaccine.
The idiots running EU already prepurchased 300 million doses of Coronavirus vaccine so no matter what the safety of the vaccine that firm will push somekind of vaccine to the market.
Shambolic. Like two children fighting over the Atari joystick. How can the public have faith in the CDC with such obvious political interference
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Larry Kudlow Claims US Has ‘Regained Control of the Virus’
More like Trump got control over the CDC at public expense
Since when is it the job of the economic advisor to comment on daily market moves?
Confusing the job with media commentators, or just comedy special?
What does “control the virus” actually mean?
No correlation between measures taken and mortality.
Strongest predictor (among many variables) of Corona excess mortality spike is the relative amplitude of flu-like illness in 2018-19, indicating how much “dry tinder” there is for the virus to burn through.
This is all part of a long chain of failures that this article covers nicely. Events don’t occur singly and in a vacuum.
An Avalanche of Failure
Jon Murphy
– September 21, 2020
What we know for sure is two things,…1- both the CDC (Center for Damage Control) and the FED (F’ing Educated Dunces) are never right, none of the time. 2- it’s a Forret Gump moment for both,..”Stupid is as stupid does!”
CDC has the best people aka 99.9% Democrats, what could go wrong:
Given the CDC was put under HHS last week, we know the Trump himself or at the very least Alex Azar is responsible. So now we can’t trust a vaccine anymore from Trump. Biden was right about this last week. In fact he was prescient.
We are the worst!
Airborne or not ? I still wonder what happened to passengers traveling with infected people (without mask) from Wuhan on at least 20 airplanes destined for USA back in Feb-Mar 2019. It appeared that no one has been infected according to CDC reports at that time.
correction Feb-Mar 2020.
Re “Most likely Trump”: “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens
The Keystone Kops would be proud of the CDC!
The point of this is: plain cloth face masks do not protect well, but who would cheap out, and not buy a three layer mask with carbon filter.
There is a difference between face masks.
Kudos to CDC for admitting they don’t know what they’re doing.
Can they switch roles with the FED since both have similar track records?
No, I think that is a good point, but has nothing to do with the CDC always saying the right thing….and then walking it back. That is the point here. They make reasonable statements and issue reasonable guidelines…but within 24 hours they say it was a mistake. This is bullshit. This is not the CDC I know, the one that taught us how to manage HIV and blood-borne pathogens in the 90’s.
You mean the same CDC that allowed people to get HIV from blood transfusions by being totally clueless?
You mean the same CDC that killed tens of thousands of gay men from Pneumocystis pneumonia because CDC refused to allow Bactrim to be prescribed to them when it has been used for Leukemia patients to prevent them from dying from Pneumocystis pneumonia?
You mean the same CDC who had completely unreliable HIV tests that led to false positives and then pumped both HIV positives and false-positives full of failed cancer drug AZT with extreme safety problems that basically finished off the immuno system for both the HIV-positives and false-positives?
There is never any accountability for government bureaucrats and this time will be no different.
Most likely Trump…..and weak, easily manipulated bureaucrats at the CDC.
One important takeaway from 4 years of Trump…..America has a sycophant problem.
The only thing most virologists can agree on is that COVD wasn’t man-made….because they ALL benefit from that little white lie.
Was never manmade and has been around since the dawn of time in the bat caves. Now go back to your conspiracy theory sites and find another one.
That article you linked doesn’t actually prove your intended point. Did you know that?
Do you know what a chimeric virus is? How they’re made? Why they’re made?
I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I’m a 64 y.o. American healthcare professional, who has been following the virus story since it was a story. I suspect I might know at least as much as you know…and possibly a great deal more.
Regardless of what you might believe, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence that COVID is an ALTERED bat virus. Many highly qualified people have suspected this and said so…I think the video that evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein did with Yuri Deigin explains it well enough, for anyone whose mind isn’t already made up.
Fwiw, the recent stories concerning the claims made by the Chinese
virologist from Hong Kong, although they were published on Zero Hedge, are quite explanatory as to HOW the virus referred to in your linked article might have been modified. She laid it out chapter and verse, and showed her work. I invite you to read her paper.
These are PERSUASIVE arguments. It can’t be absolutely proved or disproved. However, it COULD have been proved or disproved if the Chinese military hadn’t locked down the Wuhan lab and destroyed the pertinent evidence. There is no excuse fo them having done that, and they most definitely did do that.
The US medical/government bureaucrats have been so adamant about how the virus absolutely could NOT be man-made…and I have read their claims…..but they all ask you to trust their authority, and the fact is that their arguments are a bunch of hand-waving, just like the article you linked. They have given NO good evidence.
Here’s the ZeroHedge link
Is that the one who works for steve bannon.
Oh yeah, so it is thanks.
It’s not a “sycophant problem”, it’s a problem of “partisanship” created by the two-party system, and the rulership, through that system, by the rich ruling class of capitalists. And the product is a vortex that sucks people into wider and wider circles of conspiracy thinking, from “Russiagate” to “QAnon” to your above.
It would be great if the people who are alleging conspiracy theory could debunk the actual arguments that have been made in various scientific papers (including Luc Montaigner, the virologist who discovered HIV). Please start with the origin of the absolutely unique (among corona viruses) polybasic PRRA furin cleavage insert at the base of the S1 spike protein.
King Donald: l’etat, c’est moi! You subjects are all disposable to me!
“Let them eat cake”?