Deficit Hawk Hypocrites and Warmongers Unite, Apparently Hoping to Start WWIII

Long-Range Missiles 

The WSJ editorial board says the best response Russian drones is to Send Long-Range Missiles to Ukraine.

The Pentagon on Thursday released footage of a Russian fighter jet that harassed, dumped fuel on and then collided this week with an American reconnaissance drone. The provocation warrants a U.S. response, and the right one is giving the Ukrainians the sophisticated and long-range weapons they need to defeat Vladimir Putin’s military.

President Biden now has more reason to do what he could have done long ago: Give Ukraine the weapons needed to win. Priority No. 1 is the Army tactical missile system, which would allow strikes deeper into Russian positions in Ukraine to gain momentum on the ground.

Question One: Oh, I suppose Russia will sit back and let that happen in its backyard just like the US allowed Russian missiles in Cuba. Right? 

Lindsey Graham: The Only Way to Avoid World War III Is to Start It

The American Conservative reports Lindsey Graham: The Only Way to Avoid World War III Is to Start It

It’s not atypical for Russian jets to intercept U.S. aircraft flying so close to its airspace. Russian aircraft have intercepted U.S. and allied aircraft over the Black Sea and off the coast of Alaska in years past. These interceptions have become more common as the U.S. and its allies continue to provide Ukraine with military and security assistance in the war against Russia, according to National Security Council spokesman John Kirby. Kirby said that almost all of these common interceptions have occurred without incident. The Tuesday incident, however, is drawing the eyes of the Biden administration and others in Washington not only because it resulted in the downing of an unmanned drone but because of the bizarre tactics employed by the Russian pilots, which Kirby called “unsafe and unprofessional.”

Russia’s Ministry of Defense has denied any wrongdoing on the part of its pilots. In a statement, the Ministry said the Russian Air Force scrambled fighter jets to identify the drone, which allegedly had its identifying transponder off. 

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham appeared on Sean Hannity’s Fox News show last night and said the U.S. should shoot down Russian jets that intercept U.S. aircraft, manned or not.

“We should hold them accountable and say that, ‘If you ever get near another U.S. asset flying in international waters, your airplane will be shot down,’” Graham claimed. Graham went on to employ the tactic that every Republican uses when trying to make a bad idea sound like a good idea: invoking the name of Ronald Reagan. “What would Ronald Reagan do right now? He would start shooting Russian planes down if they were threatening our assets.” Later, addressing Biden, Graham said, “If you don’t change your game and up your game, we’re going to have World War III.”

Graham’s big-brained idea is that the only way to avoid World War III is to start it? To state the obvious, killing Russian pilots would bring the U.S. into direct confrontation with Russia. The United States would effectively be at war with Russia, and when Russia responds, the U.S. will feign surprise and drag the rest of NATO into the conflict. Entangling alliances are back, and so would the great war that follows them.

Graham, the neocons, and the liberal interventionists may claim the foreign policy mantle of Reagan, but their knowledge only goes so far as “peace through strength” and the USSR is an “evil empire.” In reality, Reagan responded to acts much more reckless and violent than the downing of an unmanned drone with restraint. When the Soviet Union shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on September 1, 1983, killing all 269 people, including sixty-one Americans and one member of Congress, Reagan did not start striking Russian assets or shooting down Russian military planes. Rather, Reagan’s first instinct was, in his own words from a National Security Meeting, “to protect against overreaction. Vengeance isn’t the name of the game.”

 “If you don’t change your game and up your game, we’re going to have World War III,” graham said addressing Biden.

Question Two: Would shooting down manned Russian aircraft near the Russian border stop WWIII or help start it?

Deficit Hawk Hypocrites 

If you think Republicans really want fiscal constraint, you aren’t thinking. 

Biden proposes a defense department increase of 3.2 percent, but the Budget Draws GOP Criticism, Sets Up Spending Clash.

“The president’s defense budget is woefully inadequate and disappointing,” said Sen. Roger Wicker (R., Miss.), the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee. He and other Republican leaders are advocating for military spending to increase at a minimum rate of 5% above inflation.

Fancy that. Republicans want spending 5% above inflation. 

Of course, Democrats are ready, willing and able to go along.

Democratic leaders welcomed Mr. Biden’s proposal Thursday as a good starting point, but they said they would insist that any military-budget boost require a corresponding bump in domestic spending.

Question Three: Has everyone gone mad?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Xi and Putin Bind China and Russia’s Economies Further, Despite War in Ukraine
On the second day of the Chinese leader’s state visit in Moscow, Xi Jinping and Vladimir V. Putin declared an enduring economic partnership, in an effort to insulate their countries from punitive Western measures.
By Valerie Hopkins and Chris Buckley
March 21, 2023
MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, declared an enduring economic partnership on Tuesday, promising to bring more Russian energy to China and more Chinese companies to Russia as the two leaders sought to insulate their countries from Western sanctions and other consequences of the war in Ukraine.
The economic pledges, trumpeted by the leaders on the second day of Mr. Xi’s state visit to Moscow, were a sign that China would continue to do business as normal with Russia and that Moscow and Beijing were circling their wagons, economically at least, against any punitive measures from the United States or Europe.
As the two leaders met on Tuesday, Japan’s prime minister, Fumio Kishida, visited Kyiv in a show of support that put the geopolitical fault lines created by Russia’s invasion into even sharper relief.
It was a significant change for Japan, which has drawn a clear line on the war and joined with other Group of 7 nations to impose sanctions on Russia and provide billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine.
Embattled economically and isolated on the world stage, Russia has leaned heavily on China to make up for lost business since its economy was abruptly severed from the West. Mr. Putin’s economic outreach this week was a clear sign that Beijing was gaining leverage over Russia even as it gave its neighbor help, said Alexander Gabuev, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
alexwest
alexwest
1 year ago
= some historical perspective
in 44 BC Gaius Julius Caesar , arguably one of smartest-powerful ancient people alive,was murder in Rome .
He conquered modern France and partly Britain.
just short 80 years later Caligula , #3 Rome emperor (AD 37-41), wanted to to appoint his equestrian bud to the Senate, but he was assassinated before he could make it happen.
this is how it happens, fall of the countries: slow, and then very fast!
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
How does this dangerous clown get elected?
Are the people in South Carolina that brain-dead or are the elections fixed like Illinois!
alexwest
alexwest
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery
talk is
he has ‘non traditional orientation’, thus he was compromised years ago, imagine being ga$y 40 years in USA for public figure!
same as Biden w/ his showers and sons and daughter
it was done by purpose. it is called control.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Western msm getting its rocks off this morning , Kiev attacks Crimea again !….Biden and Deep State must be pleased with themselves and the coordinates of the targets passed on to basketcase Kiev…..This is all taking too long, too much restraint by Putin, at one point corrupt Kiev will have to be wiped off the earth, gentle surgeons make stinking wounds ! Diplomacy is strictly forbidden by the US , Poland threatening to send in boots, jets and long range missiles only a matter of time…. and Russia still postponing the unpostponable….Putin has already been declared a criminal by a criminal court , better a big crook than a small time one….
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Makes me wonder …What happened with those 4 tanks send to nazi Kiev by deluded Berlin ….Broke down somewhere between Kiev and Bakhmut ? No spare parts ? Time to send long range missiles stuffed with f depleted demockcrazy, there must be plenty of them….
david halte
david halte
1 year ago
War with a major country won’t be fought with a volunteer military. Conscription in the U.S. lasted from 1947 to 1973. The Selective Service conducted lotteries to determine the order of call to military service in the Vietnam War. Imagine Millennials staring at their phones for their lottery number to appear. In wasn’t long ago, as current high inflation and low unemployment levels were last seen in the 1970s. Upper middle class progressive mommies, that proclaim diversity, won’t be able to squirrel their progeny from service, as they did in the 70s. And every candidate can’t enlist as a commissioned officer. Like the episode on “The Simpsons” were Bart is drafted: no matter what talents or education draftees had they were sent to infantry.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  david halte
France suspended conscription in 2001, Germany in 2001, Italy in 2005. Note that conscription is only suspended and not eliminated which means that it would not be necessary to pass a law to start the drafting people again. Scandinavian countries still do it as well as the Baltics and we can also mention Switzerland where all men must do military service that is rather extensive.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I would like to see how conscription works in the non state controlled territories in France, where there are many young people.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
Maybe we will see.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Must not forget Israel.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Yes we must not forget Israel’s example in that.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
long live pax dumbphuckistan. we’ve been at continual war my entire first 62 years. i think the 50 year electric money experiment will make us all billionaires in no time, and trillionaires in a few years or decade. has amerika “won” a war for the amerikan people in past 75 years?
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
….. western msm nor Russia Today (on Rumble) is talking about the Bakhmut battlefield these days ….What s going on ? Weird, if you ask me …
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
As of Friday, Russian troops controlled 75% of Bakhmut and the only road in, controlled by Ukraine, is under constant artillery and airstrikes…
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
bit of a pause. Russia waiting for UA to commit reserves to deblocking either Avdeevka or Bakhmut envelope, to concentrate on the other one.
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
This is one topic that brings out the passion in a lot of us. Everyone here seems like problem solvers so we all want to contribute and try our best. I find that very difficult when it seems that every nation has biased-one sided news. So we really don’t know the full truth.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy
especially when one has been western msm brainwashed…..
John C
John C
1 year ago
I’m astonished at the casualness with which people talk about war, as if it’s containable: all you need do is bulldoze corpses and civil order returns to normal. I’m especially knocked over by your quote from the editorial board of the WSJ, for which page I wrote a number of left-baiting and SEC-baiting articles in the mid-to-late ’80s. Maybe it’s been too long since I read the thing. But what possible value can Americans hope to gain by tempting war for a trivial kleptocracy? In that southern arc, nominal per cap GDPs border on the Third World’s. Besides not having liberalized in the last thirty years, the populations appear never to have gotten over the visceral joy of murdering neighboring ethnic tribes (almost any tribe, it seems, considering the Chechnyans’ turnabout). In purely pragmatic terms, it’s hard to imagine a more poisoned gift to Putin than ownership of Ukraine. And this is our line in the sand–not just for Biden and his think-tank army but for the Wall Street Journal?
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  John C
“…as if it’s containable: all you need do is bulldoze corpses and civil order returns to normal.”
This is what was expected of Ukraine, it wouldn’t be a problem but for Crimea and Georgia before it.
I appreciate your point, but when despots depend on our fear or complacency and get results, they push harder each time after.
Think of North Korea, Islamic extremists, Iran, China, not just Putin, just like we learn in High School, if you don’t stand up for yourself, more come after.
.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Precisely.
Witness the Southern War for Independence within the United States.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
There was the sticky problem of fighting for independence so you can keep slavery. Kind of makes you lose the moral high ground even in the 19th Century.
prumbly
prumbly
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
“when despots depend on our fear or complacency”
I don’t think Russia or China care very much about your feelings. The US just isn’t a factor any more. The world has moved on, and the US is left in the dark telling itself how great it is over and over…
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  John C
The problem is half the country thinks Trump was elected because of Putin. The 2nd Tuesday in Nov 2016 was the worst day in their lives. The first time they were denied a trophy. No matter how much Trump has been acquitted, they will never accept the facts.
Ted.Starchild
Ted.Starchild
1 year ago
Question One: Oh, I suppose Russia will sit back and let that happen in
its backyard just like the US allowed Russian missiles in Cuba. Right?
Answer One: Wrong premise. Cuban missiles was nuclear “first strike” missiles designed to decapitate United States in single strike. Missile in article is conventional missile with slightly longer range. It can destroy few ammo dumps further from front lines and that is it.
Question Two: Would shooting down manned Russian aircraft near the Russian border stop WWIII or help start it?
Answer Two: Will stop WWIII. Because Russians see failure to retaliate as sign of weakness and invitation to apply more pressure on US. Without strong response Russians will do something really stupid sooner or later with full assumption that US will cave-in. And US will be forced to retaliate. For example Russian propaganda TV discussed invasion on Baltic States, bombing refineries in Netherlands, attacking US aircraft and US military bases in Europe. Just few days ago “expert” suggested that Russia should invade Turkey and to take back Constantinople (nowadays known as Istanbul, capital of Turkey). All those things are said with implicit assumption that no one dare to retaliate against Russia.
Ted.Starchild
Ted.Starchild
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Here is link to subtitled Russian TV video about invasion on Turkey:
Honestly I have suggestion for Mish (and all other americans) to watch “Russian Media Monitor” either on Twitter or Youtube. That channel posts clips from major Russian TV propagandists with added English subtitles. After binge-watching those clips you will have better understanding about how Russia thinks and operates.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Or will I get an idea of how “Russian Media Monitor” thinks and operates?
There is no easy resolution.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Russian Media Monitor is funny because it is a great example of how media pundits can get so wrapped up in the issue that their reasoning becomes more and more absurd. We also see something similar with TV pundits in the US with especially Woke views. The most rabid Russian pundits like their American counterparts also have the lowest viewerships.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
….so you re finally admitting that the truth lies somewhere in between ? …..Now you are on the right path at last …..Welcome
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
No, I am saying that TV pundits in every country are so scared of losing their cushy jobs that they circle down into absurdities in their endeavor to make themselves stand out. Anyone with a backbone would have left that business long ago leaving only the scum to carry on on TV. I am sure you have noticed it. It is a characteristic of modern media and it is funny that Russian TV and mainstream TV in the West are in many ways dominated by the same type of personalities. Also I will like to point out that in both systems the number of people who watch their programs is very small. People get their news from other sources than from TV. I am sure you noticed it too. I am also sure that if you watch these programs you watch them for the entertainment value and not for information.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
I wonder if the captive indoctrinati in Russia, is also so far gone, that they manage to contort themselves into regurgitating, that cruising around next to the US in military planes and shooting down American planes there, is some sort of reliably meas of promoting peace…….. I somehow doubt that, although I bet the Kremlin would love it, if people bought their silly propaganda quite that wholesale.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
“…Russians see failure to retaliate as sign of weakness and invitation to apply more pressure on US.”
You’re absolutely correct, the more Putin takes without resistance, the more he will take.
Robert Kraft, owner of the N.E. Patriots had an interesting interaction with Putin, Google the story about Kraft’s Superbowl ring and Putin, it says all there is to know about Putin’s nature.
.
alexwest
alexwest
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
=about Kraft’s Superbowl ring and Putin
sure buddy,. people never lie!!
how anybody can be so stupid to believe such sh%%it. ???
well i guess you are an American , and believe also into #7 building fall down by itself in free -fall w/out being hit on 9*11
GeorgeWP
GeorgeWP
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild

So Russia has TV feed that is as crazy as Fox and ONN and a few Republicans. The situation of the war in Ukraine will have made it obvious to even the most adventurous of those with actual power that the Russian military isn’t a world beater. I doubt they had any ambitions beyond NovoRussia.

Though any small states on the border would certainly be at risk if they poke the bear.

The US showed what happens to small states in the Americas that don’t toe the masters line.
alexwest
alexwest
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
relax arm chair warrior
get back to bed, mom is calling! time to nap junior.
alexwest
alexwest
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
=Russians see failure to retaliate as sign of weakness and invitation to apply more pressure on US.
teddy, my little obnoxious chicken shi$$t!
how is that Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq , etc doing ? still winning?
—-
have you been recently in Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, etc? Sunday evening perhaps? middle of some housing project?
——–
mo$ron.
do you even understand that 40+ mil of adults in USA are on food stamps ?? or 60% of Americans cant afford 1000$ emergency expense?
or fact that USA budget deficit will be 2+trln in perpetually? on top of already accumulated 31.5 trln gov debt $$?
alx
Portlander2
Portlander2
1 year ago
The sad thing is that the MIC is spending money on weapons that are too complex, too expensive, and require too much training, maintenance, etc. to use effectively in battle conditions.
Oh, and did I mention, we are out of the most basic things for Ukraine–artillery pieces and artillery shells? Yes, we need to go back to WW II basics! This war is effectively “disarmig” NATO, and Graham wants to effectively disarm us of our long-range missiles too?He’s insanse–wanting to double down on a losing strategy. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
In short, we shouldn’t be spending one more dime on the MIC until weapons development and procurement doctrines are overhauled so they reflect national interests rather than MIC profits.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
OT – more evidence that speculation in crypto assets are what are causing bank failures. Basically these high net worth account holders were funding bank’s speculation in cryptocurrency. Signature Bank had upwards of $60B (about half the bank’s assets) in speculative assets that are were not part of the NYCB transaction. The FED, treasury and FDIC are holding about $65B of Signature Bank that appear to mostly be cryptocurrency assets. So now they are basically bailing out banks that speculated in cryptocurrency and allowing account holders to get their money back. This banking crisis is being caused by speculation in cryptocurrencies by medium sized banks that took risks to get a better return. What else is underneath the covers ?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Bailing out the banks? Are the directors, the banks’ bondholders and shareholders bailed out? No, they lost everything and more because not only will they have the SEC and the Justice department on their tails but also a lot of civil suites are being set up. Would you want to be one of them now? I certainly wouldn’t.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
They’re bailing out “depositors” dumb, or nonchalant and careless, enough to lend money so that “banks” could speculate. Amounts to exactly the same thing. No bailouts nor backstops nor “insurance”, would mean no deposits in anything but “Mish”-Banks (fully reserved ones. Audited hourly. Executive dresscode specifying prefitted noose, just in case of any hint of hanky-panky). Hence, then “executives” would not speculate.
Besides, those “executives” will not make depositors whole, no matter how many kangaroo-court “lawsuits.” Heck, they won’t even do all they possibly could to make depositors whole. Including such obvious doozies as selling off kidneys nor pimping their kids to pedophiles. Instead, these “executives” will still end up living wealthier than many/most of those who now will be forced to pitch in to bail “depositors” out by way of taxes, loss of services and debasement. Include malnourished children, who as a result will face higher prices for even basic food items.
The clowns/”executives” may now be a bit less well off than they were prior to their dimwittedness blowing up in their, or more like other people’s, face. But as some sort of deterrence, it’s not even in the same zipcode as simply stringing them up from lampposts. Which would be a lot cheaper too. As would simply leaving the yahoos handing them money (which, at least indirectly, includes me…) to take their/our losses and reap as they/we sowed.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
WWIII Started a year ago when Russia invaded Ukraine because Russia got rejected and got their feelings hurt. Or maybe it was to rebuild the Soviet empire, the collapse of which Putin calls the greatest tragedy of history.
You can’t un-ring that bell. Whatever the cause, the current strategy of providing ammo to the Ukrainians to put into waves of Russians as they rush across open fields halfway across planet is a relatively inexpensive method of depleting Russia’s military capacity, so that we may ultimately defeat them with little loss of American life. This is an America First strategy all the way.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Now it seems that it is NATO’s military capacity which is depleted…
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
Don’t count on that. There is still plenty in stock with more in the pipeline. Also as in all big wars, the money going into new military technology in the US, Europe and Japan is quasi unlimited now.
Portlander2
Portlander2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
“There is still plenty in stock with more in the pipeline.”
You’re living in a dream world. Ukraine needs the ammo now, the cupboard is bare, and the pipeline will be a trickle compared to Ukraine’s needs. We are, as usual, a day late and a dollar short of what’s really needed.
We had since 2008 to prepare for a war in Ukraine (after Putin’s invasion of Georgia). We blew it. Graham and Congress blew it. Ukraine is paying the price. And now Graham wants the world to pay the price–with WW III? He’s insane and dangerous. Ukraine will end no differently than Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. We need to face these facts.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
I suspect the real goals are
a) make lots of money from arms purchases, and
b) get Biden reelected as a wartime pissant.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
Well we will see won’t we? Waiting for the vaulted Russian Army’s spring offensive.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
“Ukraine will end no differently than Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. We need to face these facts.”
What facts? Didn’t you pay attention in indoctrination class?: Thiiingz are alwaaaaaayyyyyz diiiiiiferent thiiiiiiiiiiiz tiiiiiiime!
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
You guys been telling us this for almost a year, yet somehow Russians keep exploding.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
A lot of money. For example a huge development, for many years, to build a plane for 1500 billions$ (at least), that can be shot by a missile that did cost 1000 less…
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
Which plane are you talking about and when and where did a missile shoot it down?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
Rather it appears that Russia is running out of equipment–I mean they dropped fuel on that drone, and then crashed into it… It would’ve made more sense to just shoot it down. Unless, of course, dropping fuel had symbolic value…
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
In the sort of idiotopian sillyworlds where ambulance chasers have influence; “dropping fuel” is deemed and held and decided and felt and judged to be a “lesser” aggression than dropping something more useful.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
“Oh no, I’m weak and running out of ammo”- The “West” according to MSM News
7 months later:
Oh no, I’m weak and running out of ammo! – The “West” according to MSM news.
Bahkmut holds, lots of Russian casualties since August 2022.
Do you get it? Do you comprehend what is going on? The Russians don’t.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You do realize that prior to the invasion, ethnic Russians were being ruthlessly attacked by Ukrainian forces in the Donbas region. Had been going on for years.
Who am I kidding? of course you didn’t know. CNN would never report anything not sanctioned by the US state department.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
You mean when Russia invaded the first time, took over Crimea using “little green men” and tried to take over much more but got stalled? The war started started then. There has been attacks over the stalled point for years from BOTH sides but who invaded who?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
By your thinking, the US did NOT engineer a political outcome in Ukraine that would further the interests of the US military-industrial complex., or you are naive despite your often-very-thoughtful comments.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
You are assuming that influencing other countries is the domain of only one side. The reality is that every country is always trying to influence all other countries in order to what I guess one would call improving their position. The US, the EU and Russia were trying to influence Ukraine each one to their side and that is normal behavior for countries. What is abnormal is when instead of influencing by normal accepted methods a country invades with military force. When one country feels its influence is slipping away the normal reaction is to do something drastic like invasion but that is more often a temporary solution that creates a long-term problem because although you may get what you want the people you invaded gets a vote also and often they do not like being invade. Iraq was abnormal behavior by the US for example. The invasion was easy but the aftermath was not. If the truth about WMD had been known, no invasion would have taken place but that was hidden. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is abnormal too in that it created more problems than it solved because the population did not like being invaded. If someone with a brain had been in charge of Russia he would have looked at the long game and played on common history, similar language and customs and so forth. Basically sweet-talk them back even if it takes years to have them seeing you as family although separate. Instead Putin made Ukraine a mortal enemy for generations. During the US Civil War some in the British government were toying with the idea of recognizing and helping the South for geopolitical reasons. Abraham Lincoln got wind of it and sent a letter to Queen Victoria. In it he said the we are the only people on Earth who because of blood ties, shared language and customs and similar ideas of government have a natural inclination to like you. Do you really want to make enemies of us? Queen Victoria saw the long view and quickly cut off any talk and thought at Whitehall of helping or recognizing the South and we know that it was a wise decision. Putin turned what could have been his best ally into his worst enemy. That is why people just couldn’t believe that he would do something so stupid but he did. He turned a temporary setback into a quasi-permanent problem. He is really dumb.
SAKMAN
SAKMAN
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Correct. Everyone against the West assumes that everyone else is “playing fair”. BS.
Also, if you don’t like the West. Leave. We will see your children brainwashed into non competitive systems that are thrashing around in their death throes.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Your comment makes some sense , however , when Abraham Lincoln and queen Victoria wrote letters to each other , a criminal superfluous organisation, NATO is its name , did NOT EXIST ! That s the problem today !
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I’m not talking about 2014. I’m talking about the day before the invasion.
By your logic, it’s OK for Russia to invade Germany since Germany invaded them in 1941.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The invasion started in 2014. To ignore that is to misinterpret everything that has happened since.
Everybody has invaded everybody else at one time in history. Everybody invaded Germany for centuries and that provoked the German principalities to unite and then they invaded everybody else. After WW II European nations got together to avoid another round of bloodletting and it worked for 78 years and then Russia invaded Ukraine and brought back the demonic behavior that Europe had renounced. Russia brought it back to the continent and the Europeans are very very pissed off that that they did it and they will not let this go unpunished. For them it is existential now.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
They took back Crimea because it has belonged to Russia since Katherine the great. Kruchev gave it to Ukraine as a symbolic gesture, at a party where it wa rumored that he was drunk. Anyway it was irrelevant as it was all under the umbrella of the USSR. When the Cia instigated the Maiden revolution in 2014 the Russias rightfully reclaimed it. They have their Black Sea navel base there. Also most of the inhabitants of Crimea are Russia and are pro Russia. If you want to educate yourself self on this read David Stockmans article “Pearl Harbour my eye” It will enlighten you.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk
Russia is just the last conqueror of Crimea that contains a long list of those who had conquered it before going back millennia. If Ukraine kicks out Russia from the Crimea then it will belong to them. Before it was Russian it belonged to the Crimean Tartars most of which were deported from Crimea and replaced by Russians. Shall I go on? The Goths used to own Crimea too. They left it to invade the Roman Empire but they did like the weather there.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Okay then we need to go back and turn America back to the Indians by your logic.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk

Right by conquest is not a Right. It is just a statement of fact and that fact can change when someone moves in or back in. If you can’t hold it you lose it.

Columbo
Columbo
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk

The Black Sea navel base is the number one reason they wanted Crimea. The history is just for cover.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Either your knowledge of history is shockingly deficient, or you are a stooge for the propaganda media. No one’s hands are clean in this mess. That marginally intelligent politicians, and politically appointed military leaders can determine whether millions of US citizens survive even a limited nuclear exchange should alarm any thinking person. This is NOT a video game.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
What’s the point of having a CIA if you don’t use it to subvert foreign Governments.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Wishful thinking ….again… moron
LM2022
LM2022
1 year ago
Back in the 1990s, after the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine signed an agreement with the Russian Federation to give up the nukes that were based in their country in exchange for security guarantees. We see how that worked out. Putin is a thug, a liar and a murderer. I’m surprised so many so-called patriotic Americans support him.
I’m against war but the Ukrainians have a right to defend themselves. Give them the tools they need.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
People in Crimea and Donbass don’t think they are Ukrainians. A big part of the soldiers on the Russian side come from these regions. And they think also that they defend themselves.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
A bunch of lackwits in Idaho feel the same way. How would you feel about them declaring Idaho part of Russia, and shooting at their neighbors?
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I don’t know how many people in Idaho have a Russian culture and have spoken Russian for centuries
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Wow.
I really want some of that good stuff you have been drinking!!!!!
Obviously must be made from the best potatoes and triple distilled.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
….and what about neighbours killing the ‘lackwits’ ? That ok ?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
You mean the referendum that Russia set up after they invaded Crimea and Donbass? The referendum that took place when the URSS fell showed different results but hey, a few thousand foreign soldiers occupying the area can do wonders for referendum results. Don’t you agree?
Ted.Starchild
Ted.Starchild
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
“People in Crimea and Donbass don’t think they are Ukrainians.”
Really? Have you seen videos of enthusiastic residents of Kherson meeting Ukrainian army? Those are same allegedly “pro-Russian” or “Russian” residents that allegedly love Russia so much. You should not believe everything that is produced by Russian propaganda.
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Of course, there might be some pro-Ukraine elements still living there. But even as far back as in 2010, the region was 65-35 or 70-30 in favor of Russia.
ILHawk
ILHawk
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Kherson is neither Donbas or Crimea, not that I think the others are pro Russia.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
…. should we believe Ukrainian propaganda then ?
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
Ignore the fact that Pro-Russians in Kherson are bleeding the Ukrainian military in Kherson…
Daily ambushes of Ukrainian check points and convoys all over Kherson..
This coming from the Ukrainian General in charge of Kherson, constantly complaining in interviews, that his troops have been under constant attack, after they retook Kherson..
These are attacks on the ground inside Kherson, not long range or short range artillery and missile attacks!!!
This is being reported on BBC!!!
Dominic69
Dominic69
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Ukraine never had nukes. The nuclear weapons stationed in Ukraine belonged to the Soviet Armed Forces and were controlled by Moscow, Ukraine could not even detonate them if they wanted to. Post 1991 Russia was recognized as the successor state of the Soviet Union retaining its permanent seat in the Security Council of the UN. Let’s not distort history.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic69
Also assuming all debts of the former Soviet Union which is conveniently forgotten.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
And Russia paid all that debt off!!
whirlaway
whirlaway
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Ukraine’s nukes were taken away because the West was worried that the corrupt Ukrainians (is there another kind?!) would sell the nuclear fissile material to terrorist groups in the black market.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Put in is a lair thug and murderer So was Bush 43 look how many sheep still revere him.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
Does this mean that George Bush (the lesser) is a thug, a liar and a murderer?
Asking for a friend.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  LM2022
“….the Ukrainians have a right to defend themselves. Give them the tools they need.”
And you have the right to give them, or Putin, or anyone, any tool you feel like. As do any other individual, or individuals.
But the US government has no right to give anyone anything. After all, not only they have nothing to give. When they talk of “giving”, what they are actually saying is “we’re going to take from Americans, in order to give our lobbyists 90% of the money, so that they can pocket 30% to 80% of it and pass the rest to some tinpot in some foreign country. “Giving” properly means giving your own stuff. Like Lindsey giving his lipbalm, perhaps. Only in trivially obvious charlatanian Newspeak, does “giving” mean taking from third parties without obtaining their explicit consent.
Besides, the US Government has no business doing anything whatsoever, aside from trading freely with all, and entering into entangling alliances with None. They just might have had a case to get involved, if Putins dark forces had taken Long Island rather than Crimea. Although even that would really be a more appropriate job for the local Long Island militia. No real reason to drag taxpayers in California into it.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
In the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, the hawks were the military, and now it’s the politicians. Maybe the in the Pentagon the balance of power is better estimated.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
The Army tactical missile system (atacms), touted as the 29th wunderwaffen game-changer, would actually make no difference.
The Russians have become proficient in shooting down about 90% of the GMLRS rockets launched from HiMars and MLRS 270 systems.
Atacms would be easier to intercept and make the launch system more vulnerable.
Correction: They would change something. Russia has said they need a buffer beyond their own sovereign borders of a distance equivalent to the reach of any weapons systems in UA possession. Atacms would leave Ukraine even less & very little territory.
Toutatis
Toutatis
1 year ago
Probably Graham knows nothing about Sarmat RS-28 and some other toys that the Russians have.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis

Putin pense que c’est
sa potion
magique par Toutatis!

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
More likely he does know, yet figures the US will prevail in any conflict, while the destruction of a few major US cities will reduce the number of democrats at the polls in 2024.
Ted.Starchild
Ted.Starchild
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
“Probably Graham knows nothing about Sarmat RS-28 and some other toys that the Russians have.”
Nuclear armed toys are completely irrelevant. In mass nuclear war there is only once outcome. Ant that outcome includes fact that Russia will cease to exist. This is one major reason why Russia will not start WW3.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
ICBM’s are faster at reaching the target than the Sarmat so its use is not very much vs the cost.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
“The RS-28 Sarmat (Russian: РС-28 Сармат,[4] named after the Sarmatians;[5] NATO reporting name: SS-X-29[6] or SS-X-30[7]), often unofficially called Satan II by some media outlets, is a Russian liquid-fueled, MIRV-equipped super-heavy intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM)…”
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
The Sarmat carries the Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle which is what people consider to be the sexy new weapon. The Sarmat itself is an upgraded ICBM and its importance is in what it carries. I should have said the Avangard and not the Sarmat. My mistake.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Upgraded to take any flight path, including over the Antarctic, where US Air Defense is not oriented.
Add to that that Russia has greater ABM capability than US nowadays. It was ABM (George Bush) that kicked off this new arms race.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Yes that is right but there has been only one test of the vehicle that was rendered public so it is not sure if it works or not. China did do a very credible test of the same type vehicle and it went half around the world and came to only a few kilometers from the target. That was impressive. By the way the head scientist of the Avangard project in Russia is in prison for passing information about the project to the Chinese.
Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
One of the outcomes is that we get to obliterate North Korea along with Russia. A 2-for-1 winning approach.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  Toutatis
“Probably Graham knows nothing”
Correct.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Biden could have walked away from it, and allow Ukraine to be a neutral country, but his neocon advisers told him: you can just kick in the door, and the Russian economy will crumble.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Biden wasn’t president when Russia invaded Ukraine. Obama was.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
He was only the vice president…completely inconsequential
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr Funkenstein
Like the present one.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Biden can’t walk away from it. His hands are dirty there from Hunter’s dealings. It would all come out after a regime change.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
What is this dirt exactly? I hear about the dirt, but never any specifics. What are the accusations?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Apart from the Bidens’ obvious financial dealings now being uncovered and revealed to the public, no one knows how much, if any ‘dirt’ remains unreleased. What is clear, though, is the vast and ongoing coverup of the Bidens by US government insiders and the media.
That the groundwork for corruption (in the Ukraine) was done by Biden as vice-president- is important. One of the few times Obama was right–Biden can screw anything up.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Are you unaware of Hunter’s gig at Burisma? And how Joe bragged about firing the person in charge of investigating them? if you want US money, you have to fire him, said joe. Never seen the video?
You need to find actual news sources and stop watching CNN. Like everyone else has.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Mish they have not gone mad. Its their money masters who want this. This is the epitome of the corrupt crony capitalist political system. One start besides hanging them all would be a one term limit and elinimating any form of donations to these evil corrupt politicans.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk
Term limits don’ change the underlying issue: Russia and America are no longer able to compete at producing anything of value to anyone. OTHER than weapons and warfare. Hence, in ever more desperate spasms aimed at stay relevant, they are running around the world trying to militarise everywhere and everything; since only then do either one of them retain any remaining significance at all.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
If Ukraine had missiles that could reach Moscow, it would be the end of civilization as we know it. Anyone supporting this idea is out of their mind. The better idea is to destabilize the government in Moscow and foment a revolution by Russians themselves.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
If Ukraine had kept its nukes and not signed them away in exchange of territorial integrity guarantees from the US, UK and Russia at the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 then Russia wouldn’t have dared invading them.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
It never had operational possession. No codes to actually fire the things. No ability to maintain them.
People were mainly concerned about the fissile material going underground, with regard to Russia, but even more with regard to the hopelessly corrupt UA.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Don’t need codes if you have the plutonium and missiles to put them on. It’s just a question of retooling and Ukraine had the tools to do so. The worry at the time was not that Russia would invade Ukraine. That worry came later. Free nukes will be a worry when Russia loses the war.
Dominic69
Dominic69
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
The nukes never belonged to Ukraine, do not distort history. Russia will not lose this war.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
You have an overly simplistic vision of the requirements for nuclear weapons based on plutonium.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Then why not send them nukes now? France has them, so start lobbying your government to send nukes to Ukraine to end the war.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Not my call and won’t be necessary unless Putin destroys a European city. Then all bets are off.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
So Ukraine is not a European city?
I firmly absolutely 100% believe that if Russia invaded Poland and the US stood by and did nothing that the rest of Europe would let Poland go. In other words without the US backing, the rest of Europe’s military is a paper tiger and the leaders in France and England would not risk Paris and London being nuked for Poland.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Yes it is so if Russia fires on them then it will get very interesting. Europe has two nuclear powers and most the others could make a bomb over the weekend. That you may firmly believe something doesn’t mean it will go that way. Putin firmly believed that the Europeans would do nothing like you did. He was wrong. Europe, the US and Canada are in a collective defense agreement for just that reason, to defend against invasion from the Soviet Union and its successor the Russian Federation. It is working as intended.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I love how you believe you can make a bomb over the weekend. One of the most complex endeavors in human history is now nothing more than a weekend of work. It would take months if not years for the rest of Europe to make a bomb. The material is very hard to come by and building an actual bomb from that material takes a lot more engineering than a weekend of work plus you need delivery systems etc. I doubt someone like Spain could make 1 in less than several years.
The Europeans actually have done nothing. All they did was stop buying Russian products and gave away old obsolete military stuff to Ukraine. The US is providing the bulk of the effort (money, equipment and military intelligence). If the US had done nothing the war would already be finished. Yes, the US is part of the alliance but the US is also not a part of Europe. Europe talks tough in the same manner that the small guy in the bar talks tough when standing next to his 6’4 friend.
It’s been over a year now. If Europe really believed in the Russian threat then every country would have upgraded it’s military significantly (man power and equipment). Yet none have done anything of the sort.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
A bomb is easy to make if you have the plutonium and access to precision machine tools and Europe has both in quantity. The physics is well-defined as well as the mechanics. A weekend may be an exaggeration but if felt sufficiently threatened virtually all of the Western European countries with advanced economies could build a few much quicker than you think.
If you want to discuss the list of equipment Europe is providing and rather if is all the old stuff then let’s do it tomorrow. It’s late here and I am going to bed. By the way orders for military equipment from European countries to European companies is going through the roof. More on that later.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug, I think your detachment from reality just might qualify you for a position with a think tank in Washington, DC.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
The only thing Ukraine could have done with “its nukes” is sell off pieces to third parties.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Alternatively, get past the media presentation of Putin as evil–the same media that presented Trump as evil, and global warming, and…..
At this time, the US goal should be to separate Russia and China, and vassal states. NOT FORCE THEM CLOSER TOGETHER.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
If you have noticed, the Republican likely seeking the Presidential nomination are not talking like the DC republicans. I guess they realize that the people that will vote don’t want endless war or an endless $ flowing to Ukraine.
Hopefully, some one will actually want to look at defense spending and rationalize this to what we must have and what we are willing to pay for. It’s filled with tons of waste. Last time I heard they had lost rack of $1 trillion!!
Doubtful but I can dream.
Directed Energy
Directed Energy
1 year ago
We have allowed ourselves to get too far behind China for comfort, in too many defense arenas. Look at how much winning the Cold War benefited America, now it’s time to double down and crush China. This is not a joke, our way of life is at stake no different than it was the last time the red commies were a threat.
Defense spending should double immediately, with a “moon landing” effort to out-tech China.
Lasers, hypersonic and cyber are all priority #1.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
And should we also double taxes immediately to pay for this?
What portion of the defense spending is wasted? Maybe we should just move the defense budget to infinity.
prumbly
prumbly
1 year ago
The US couldn’t win in Vietnam or Afghanistan, so their chances against a far larger and technologically superior China are really not good. It will be just another humiliation after their failure in Ukraine.
Andy11
Andy11
1 year ago
Reply to  prumbly
The last time China was in an actual war was 74 years ago against some peace loving Tibetan monks.
The one before that was in 1945 and Japan was winning. The only reason Japan lost against China was the US dropped the bomb.
You are sadly mistaken if yoo think China is the superior to the US.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy11
Get your facts straight. The Soviets freed Manchuria and Korea, and made a dumb mistake by stopping at the 38th parallel as promised.
Even then under Stalin, they were goody goody two-shoes perpetually falling for the guile of the Yanks.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Get your facts straight. The USSR and Japan were not at war and traded together during the war. After the war ended in Europe the USSR declared war on Japan and rolled up the Manchuria garrison which had not been able to receive supplies for quite some time because of American submarines and because Japan was fighting everywhere else except in Manchuria because they were at peace with the Soviet Union. It was a cakewalk.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  prumbly
Actually the US would win any direct military confrontation hands down. They spend more per year that the rest of the world combined.
What they can’t win is long protracted guerilla wars against enemies that don’t directly confront them.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
There is an important lesson in this… knowing that the US will win any direct military confrontation; what will Russia do?
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Dead wrong. War gaming shows NAto loses badly in any conventional confrontation with Russia.
Russia has far more material, and would not allow the US to spend 6 months building up an arsenal.
Russia also has escalation dominance. And superior Air Defense.
The US lost to Afghanistan, sandaled goat herders with no real weapons.
You cannot beat anybody by having the most dollars … you need troops & ammunition.
Aircraft carriers are yesterday, no chance against hypersonic missiles.
US is living in the past.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
I have read a fair amount of articles, one in particular by Peter Zeihan, that puts China’s military capacity into perspective. They are in NO way superior to ours, not even close. Quit listening to corrupt evil neocons. Don’t be brainwashed by propagand from the politburo. These people will lead us into terminal destruction to line their own pockets. They are traitors and should be dealt with as a traitor would be.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
You can’t have 3 priority ones.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
LOL, you do come up with some good ones now and then.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
The more advanced the equipment the US sends to Ukraine, the more terrible the price the Ukrainian people are going to be paying.
Make no mistake, the US and the rest of Europe are paying no price other than a small inconvenience of more expensive gas / oil and donating some old military surplus equipment.
But the longer this war drags on, the more Ukrainians that are bring killed /maimed and the more their country is being destroyed piece by piece. Sending long range missiles would mean that Russia would be sending long range missile strikes deeper into Ukraine to knock out the US supplied equipment. That means more deaths and more physical destruction of infrastructure etc.
Eventually there is going to be a lost generation of Ukrainian men once all the military aged men are dead / maimed.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
war is business and business is good , ….especially so with a social/ financial system on the brink of collapse, always a motive for a good healthy war , history shows ….
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Sad but true.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
You are in the camp of those wish Russia to take over Ukraine, the the Baltics, Poland and whatever else they can grab. When you lose a war and are occupied, the suffering doesn’t stop but has only just begun and it gets much worse. Europeans remember that. That’s why they support Ukraine. It’s quite simple.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Are you actually resuscitating the corpse of the Dominoes theory?
Or the eternal Hitler/appeasement ghost?
Both of these theories make it impossible not have perpetual international war, and that on purely theoretical grounds.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
I didn’t resuscitate it. Putin did it and the countries around Russia believe in it by direct experience with Russia. Why do you think they joined Nato as early as they could and why did Sweden and Finland are doing the same thing now. Are you accusing them of unjustified paranoia? I would say they know Russian intentions better than you.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Their politicians are being bribed by the CIA which has been standard practice for decades in Western Europe. Intelligent presidents from Eisenhower through Reagan and Trump tried to reduce tensions with Russia. Our current idiot president and some of his predecessors keep poking the bear.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I really don’t care whether they occupy Ukraine and attempt to hold it or merely affect regime change in Ukraine. There is nothing in the Ukraine that matters to me or my family.
As I’ve stated in multiple threads, if you want to support Ukraine and believe Russia is an existential threat, pick up a rife and stand a post. Or send them nuclear weapon and the blessing to use them. A couple million soldiers from France, Germany, England, Spain etc and/or Nukes from France/England entering Ukraine would end the war tomorrow one way or another (Russia capitulates, Ukraine capitulates, Europe is destroyed entirely).
Otherwise your basically like parents who keep giving their kids matches to play with and bandaging up their hands and bodies each time they burn themselves hoping that they master fire before they burn themselves to death.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
It seems you don’t get it. More confrontation is clearly not working. Already-corrupt Ukraine is being worn down to an impoverished state.
Perhaps the US needs to try an alternative approach–go to the UN with a proposal to make Ukraine a neutral state under the UN umbrella. Enable to relocation of people as they desire. If the alternative is WW3–most of Europe will be destroyed.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Beyond the number of bodies, we can calculate exactly what it would cost Ukraine.
Russia has said they need a buffer beyond their own sovereign borders of a distance equivalent to the reach of any weapons systems in UA possession. Atacms would leave Ukraine even less & very little territory.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65

Be enslaved by Russia, or go down fighting. Which would you choose?

Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Why enslave Russia of course!
ohno
ohno
1 year ago
The US just wont let it go. We’re going to pay the price for these bullheaded jackasses.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
1. The drone is flying in a de facto no-fly zone, where it is a belligerent. This is not some routine spy operation, the drone is acquiring target co-ordinates which the US command & control overseeing UA efforts uses to kill Russians.
Whence the indignation?
2. Were the US to shoot down a Russian fighter, there is a very good chance Russia would send a missile salvo to hit the base it was fired from, or, if a ship, sink the ship. They will be successful, since they have missiles which the US is not only unable to interdict, but even to detect.
Then what? Will Lindsay be calmed?
Not everyone has gone mad, but obviously we now live in a world of serial directed mass psychoses.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
But they destroyed the drone in a reckless and environmentally destructive way.
This is the thing that really irks me about the Nazis. it wasn’t that they killed 6 million in concentration camps. It’s that they burnt the bodies instead of making compost out of them.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Good point.
The Russians should be using Green, low carbon weapons.
Ted.Starchild
Ted.Starchild
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
The drone was flying in international airspace over international waters. Drone has unquestionable legal right to be there. Attack on drone was gross violation of international law. Failure to properly answer sets very bad precedent.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Ted.Starchild
No. Flying through ADIZ with restrictions published in advance.
Common for countries to declare a zone in open waters for a naval exercise — enter at your peril.
In this case the US is also a belligerent, just as it is in Syria or Iraq, since US never declares wars.
Mjs357
Mjs357
1 year ago
The only question left: Does Putin have anything left to lose or nothing else to lose? If he has nothing, he is most dangerous of course. Go ahead, test those red lines Lindsey… The “budget” is no budget no matter debt of deficit. The budget is a mere blank check to partisan special interests. The money does almost nothing to benefit our daily lives or our kids’ future.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
I wonder if Vegas has started posting odds on when this joke of a government will collapse.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
“Question One: Oh, I suppose Russia will sit back and let that happen in its backyard just like the US allowed Russian missiles in Cuba. Right?”
Since you are putting yourself in Russia’s head let me ask you to put yourself in Ukraine’s head and then ask yourself what would you do and why.
“Question Two: Would shooting down manned Russian aircraft near the Russian border stop WWIII or help start it?”
The shooting down of unmanned drones is fairly common and doesn’t lead to open war. Shooting down a manned aircraft may or may not depending on the circumstances.
“Question Three: Has everyone gone mad?”
That depends on your definition of mad which is highly subjective. Theses days Republicans think Democrats are mad and Democrats think Republicans are mad and they both think Libertarians are mad. Many thought Putin was mad to invade Ukraine but there is no reason to put it down to madness rather than to a gross miscalculation.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Well said, not to mention, we didn’t invade Cuba nor kill unarmed citizens.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
LOL ! Do you really want a list of American warcrimes ?! ”Only” a couple of million in the Middle East ! That enough for you ? As their skin was slightly darker than Ukrainians , that should be irrelevant of course …..Ignoramus , that s what you are ….
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD

The US killed plenty of civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan to mention just a few. The poliburo keeps it quiet so the sheep remain blissfully ignorant.

MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  hmk
None of the kills where intended.
Putin has specifically targeted schools, hospitals, churches and residential buildings.
.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Correction.
The US did not successfully invade Cuba.
They killed a few unarmed Cubans, but the invasion itself failed.
Promised support evaporated.
Much like what the US did to the Kurds in northern Iraq.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Question Four : WHY did Putin invade Ukraine ?? Was it the consequence of yet another NATO=USA= CIA orchestrated coup with the one and only motive of debilitating Russia ?
Question Five : WHY did the US invade Iraq 20 years ago ? Got a few more questions but I ll stop here as I don t want to embarrass you much more …..Btw , ‘miscalculation’ is beginning to look more and more like a N(azi) A(dhering) T(errorist) O(rganisation) problem if you ask me ….but then again, I may be kind of biased , I admit …
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
We agreed to leave when asked to leave after Trump killed Qasem Soleimani without consult.
Ukraine doesn’t get that courtesy.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
I am sorry, you make me laugh all of the time with your silly remarks …..If you offered to leave(but didn t ), after 17 years of messing up, when Soleimani got killed , Putin s still got some scope left then….
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Yes, you might be kind of biased, a bit.
America was lied to about WMD’s, a war was started under false pretense, but unlike Putin, Americans weren’t threatened with prison for protesting it, and, in case you missed it, we’re no longer there, we’re not annexing other countries.
Moron.
.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
America was lied to about WMD s, hahahahaha how f gullible, by whom were they lied to then? ! By the same deep state creeps waging war against Russia now ? People tend to get p*ssed when faced with the truth, don t they ? Smart guy .
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants it obviously.
Invading Iraq was a big error but the object was never to be there forever not erase its existence as a people and a culture like Russia wants to do with Ukraine.
Really Halfra, you should stop making believe that you are a viking. It’s gone to your head.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Most of the people in the areas “invaded” speak Russian. The Ukrainian government is outlawing the Russian language, closing churches, arresting dissenters and imprisoning opposition politicians. Tell me about how Ukraine is a “democracy”?
Look up the “war crimes in the Donbass and see who, until the invasion, was considered the perpetrators.
Ukraine is totally corrupt and is the perfect money laundering location for our “elected leaders – both parties”. So to protect and grow the graft, Ukrainians and Russians must die.
A sick and disgusting fact.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
So only perfect countries are worthy of being defended? I guess that leaves only Russia.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Pretty piss poor rebuttal. You might want to try utilizing a fact or two.
How about you spend and support whomever you want with your money and your life? I have no interest in this fight and would rather see peace and less loss of life.
If we are the great democracy, then why don’t we follow what the people want?
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
“If we are the great democracy, then why don’t we follow what the people want?”
We are, the majority of Americans support Ukraine.
.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
yeah right, fools, relentlessly brainwashed by CNN …..most of them can t even indicate basketcase Ukraine on a map….Can you ? Btw Kiev is merely a two hours flight from Brussels, Why don t your Deep State mthr****** just stay out of our backyard ?!
jfpersona
jfpersona
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
If we’re all brainwashed by CNN then we are all for supporting Ukraine. And therefore our government is doing what we all want to be done.
I’m not sure you thought this through…again.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
….tell me about YOUR roots, will you, fanatic yank ?….
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
My roots? American.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Winnetou or Old Shatterhand ?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Ukraine would do whatever the the US tells it to do.
They wouldn’t last a week without US support so they absolutely must do whatever the US tells them to do in order to continue to get that support.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Support came to the Ukraine from the US and Europe when Ukraine demonstrated by blood that they were willing to fight for their existence against an invader. For some reason you object that the US and Europe helps them and since they do supply equipment they obviously have some influence so what is the problem?
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Let’s see about 100,000 dead on each side. Can we get to 150,000 each? Over $100 Billion spent. How much stolen?
How much are you willing to pay? In $ and in blood?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
If Russia withdraws the war stops so maybe you should ask Putin those questions. He has the power to end it.
hmk
hmk
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
We had the power to end it by advising Ukraine that it will :1 remain neutral and not allow nukes into its country which Zelensky blatantly wanted to do. 2: stop the Ukrainian neo nazi Azov battalion from ethnic cleansing/genocied of the ethnic Russians in the current area of conflict, ie Eastern Ukraine. 3. Not instigated a coup in 2014 led and paid for by the CIA to overthrow a corroupt pro Russian leader and replace him with a courrupt pro US leader. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on earth, look it up. Alwasys in the top 20. Geez wherreever we intervene, we make life miserable for those countries citizens. Nothing but death and destruction. But I guess its worth it as long as the oligarchs and corrupt politicians here benefit.
Columbo
Columbo
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
The war has become a brutal battle of attrition with each side trying to outlast the other. I think Putin holds the key and at the moment it appears that he thinks Russia will outlast.
What should happen is that Ukraine becomes a neutral country, but that seems like a remote possibility as neither side is willing to buy in.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Like Mish, I object to war in general.
In this case I was merely replying to your question about ‘what would Ukraine do’ by stating that Ukraine has no opinion of it’s own. It’s simply a puppet at this point of the US and dances to it’s masters wishes.
Incidentally, the rest of Europe does that same because if the US withdrew from NATO and Europe was forced to defend itself, it couldn’t beyond using Nukes.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
It is very nice to be against war in general. I am too. I am also against violence and if I see the neighborhood bully beating the crap of of you according to you I should express my sincere sympathy to you and just walk on by. Some do not believe in collective defense because it does generate obligations (on all sides) and that is difficult to manage. It would be nice to be left alone in splendid isolation but we live in a world with others, some not very nice at all, so like it or not we have to deal with it. Having friends and allies is much better than not having them at all.
Actually Europe can defend itself against Russia. It have easily the industrial plant and the population to do it. Thanks to Russia in several countries the population is for conscription if necessary. Most European counties dropped it well after the US did so the manpower potential in Europe is way more than Russia’s. We are talking about 500 million people vs 145 million. Who would win that contest?
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Since you are putting yourself in Russia’s head let me ask you to put yourself in Ukraine’s head and then ask yourself what would you do and why.”
Answer my question “Question One: Oh, I suppose Russia will sit back and let that happen in its backyard just like the US allowed Russian missiles in Cuba. Right?”
How the Flying F is that defending Russia. I asked a question. Answer it please.
“The shooting down of unmanned drones is fairly common and doesn’t lead to open war. Shooting down a manned aircraft may or may not depending on the circumstances.”
It was Russia that disabled a drone. It is the US threatening manned planes. Apparently you cannot read.
Carl_R
Carl_R
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
I took it that he was agreeing with you. Russia shooting down a drone won’t lead to war, but if the US shoots down a manned Russian fighter, it might lead to one.
As for the war itself, if I put myself in the heads of both sides, I don’t see any possible resolution, at least in the short run. Ukraine is willing to fight for it’s existence, and unwilling to leave itself open to further incursions. Russia doesn’t think Ukraine should exist, and thinks that territory should rightly be Russian. Russia might concede the right of a smaller Ukraine to exist, but only it they have no defense. Ukraine might concede part of it’s territory, but only if allowed to join NATO so as to be sure they don’t get invaded again. There is no middle ground on which to base a peace.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Your question is not a question but a statement that Russia will mirror what happened in the Cuban missile crisis when that was long ago with a different regime in Russia now. Then there was a Politburo where a small group would discuss and fight over actions to take. In Russia there is no Politburo and only Putin decides. Secondly and more importantly Europe is intimately involved since it is happening on their doorstep. Back then they were spectators. In all you can’t use that Crisis because it is not analogous. Putin would love to have to deal only with the US but that is impossible. There are other players who are very much involved and they are far from being inconsequential so Putin’s gambit was flawed from the start. So to give you an answer Russia reacted to what they saw as a bad situation and probably did an action, invade Ukraine, that is probably the worst alternative possible seeing that he did not obtain his military objectives and that the long-term economic fallout on Russia will result in it being fragilized to such an extent that it will become just a regional power among others.
Yes I can read and I can write too. Russia did disable a drone in international airspace and some in Congress threatened to escort future drones with warplanes. Maybe that will happen, maybe not. It really depends on backchannel negotiations and not on what some Congressman wants. Nevertheless the drones will continue to spy on Crimea from international waters and certainly pass on some information to the Ukrainians. By the way Russian drones have been flying off the coast of Norway, Denmark and Sweden for a long time now and we haven’t shot any down. Do you propose that we do?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I have not read of any Russian drones flying in international waters off the coast of Norfolk or San Diego.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
It’s too far for a drone but I have heard of balloons coming by. Unfortunately they don’t stay in international air space but fly over the country.
wmjack50
wmjack50
1 year ago
The DC Administrative State 95% Democrat Party members always wants war and chaos to generate money to feed their life style of graft and bribery—Congress comes and goes But they are always there protected by civil service rules until they retire and their children step in
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  wmjack50
American are slowly coming to the understanding that there are really four branches of the American Government.
The legislative, the judicial, the executive, and the bureaucratic.
The bureaucratic is the most stable and long lasting.
wmjack50
wmjack50
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
That is the problem—the spoils system schedule F of Trump wished to replace the entrenched Democrats with Conservatives to reflect his goals but the GANG weaponizes their agencies to defeat the will of the American people–These parasites will have their agencies closed and their life style ended
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Graham and McConnell are bozos. Democratic leadership is terrible, but so is republican leadership. Our only hope is if DeSantis wins.
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I have to say that after reading everyone’s comment, I like yours the best.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“..leadership is terrible..”
Yes. Always and everywhere. For all possible time.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Kid, you gave me a marvelous idea.
When caught in these really dumb ideas, Congressfolks should be required to wear Bozo shoes, a Bozo wig and a Bozo nose for an entire week. This must not be limited to only one Congressperson at a time.

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