The electric vehicle grand vision may flounder on something most drivers take for granted: a quick pit stop.
The inconvenient truth of electric vehicles is they are terribly inconvenient to own and operate. Most cars need a charge after 200 to 250 miles traveled.
Charging them requires finding a charging station, and then an open bay.
The New York Times reports L.A. to Vegas and Back by Electric Car: 8 Hours Driving; 5 More Plugged In.
The NYT author, Ivan Penn, drove a Chevrolet Bolt from LA to Las Vegas, a 540-mile round trip that many people make regularly.
Penn reports that in addition to eight hours on the road, he spent close to five and a half hours charging the car. That’s about 41% charging time.
It could have been much worse. “We always found a charger available, though more than once we got the last one, and drivers arriving after us had to wait,” said Penn.
Thus, what was 5.5 hours could easily have been 8 hours. All it would have taken was one nasty wait. Tesla owners have been known to wait an hour or more for a charger to open up. And Tesla owners can use either Tesla stations or public stations. The reverse is not true.
The United States has about 24,000 public charging stations, with an average of fewer than three charging posts. By comparison, there are about 150,000 gas stations, some with dozens of pumps.
Will the number of charging stations increase as fast as electric vehicles?
I don’t know but the alleged saving over gasoline is not as good as reported.
Charging costs an average cost $10 for about 200 miles, depending on the car, That’s about about half the typical cost of gasoline for that distance, according to AAA.
“Our experience was not as economical: We spent about $67 on electricity, perhaps $10 less than we might have on gas,” says Penn. Of course, no one can predict with any reasonable degree of accuracy, future electric costs or future gasoline prices.
Is this really “green”?
Debates on environmental friendliness rage, but even if this is an environmentally friendly setup, it’s ridiculously inconvenient to spend 8 hours or even 5.5 hours charging a car for an 8-hour trip.
Regulations
There are no standards for plugs, fast chargers, or number of bays. Regulations have not caught up, but Mountlake Terrace, Washington, a Seattle suburb, is forcing developers to put up charging stations.
- Signage. Each charging station space shall be posted with signage indicating the space is only for electric vehicle charging purposes. Days and hours of operation shall be included if time limits or tow-away provisions are to be enforced.
- Clearance. Charging station equipment mounted on pedestals, light posts, bollards or other devices shall be a minimum of 24 inches clear from the face of curb.
- Charging Station Equipment. Charging station outlets and connector devices shall be no less than 36 inches or no higher than 48 inches from the top of surface where mounted, and shall contain a retraction device and/or a place to hang permanent cords and connectors sufficiently above the ground or paved surface.
- Charging Station Equipment Protection. When the electric vehicle charging station space is perpendicular or at an angle to curb face and charging equipment, adequate equipment protection, such as wheel stops or concrete-filled steel bollards shall be used.
- Maintenance. Charging station equipment shall be maintained in all respects, including the functioning of the charging equipment. A phone number or other contact information shall be provided on the charging station equipment for reporting when the equipment is not functioning or other problems are encountered.
Required Number of Stations
When Do EV Vehicles Make Sense?
- Currently, nowhere, from a cost standpoint. People buy EVs or hybrids on the questionable belief they are doing something for the environment.
- For those who very seldom drive at all and for those whom walking, public transportation, or Uber is a viable option, no car of any kind makes economic sense. However, for those who demand the convenience of having a car, the points made below apply.
- If and when the cost of an EV is no more than the cost of a gas-powered vehicle (factoring in gas, insurance, life of car, maintenance costs) EVs become practical for those who seldom if ever drive more than 150 mile or so before a known lengthy stop that also happens to have a charger. For most, the charging station needs to be home or work.
- Until batteries charge as fast or nearly as fast fueling a gas-powered vehicle or readily available battery swapping stations exist, EVs will not make sense for a big percentage of drivers.
Number 3 may happen soon, or not, but 3 likely precedes 4 by a lengthy period.
Those who live in a big metropolitan area who seldom if ever drive outside that area, who also demand the convenience of having their own car whether it makes economic sense might find EVs practical in the near future. Many millions of people meet this description.
In general, ownership and inconvenience costs need to drop before EV ownership takes off. For many, we are a decade away unless and until there are readily available super-fast charging or swapping stations.
For those living in cities, I expect outright ownership rates will drop as self-driving Uber and new rental opportunities catch on.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
All entoosed Tesla drivers here …. What about all those Teslas and other EVs exploding, catching fire etc ? Nobody ? I don t want that EV shit in my garage , I don t !
Skewed story. Get a Tesla model 3, 310 miles on a charge. Just drove LA to Phoenix and back, made it in 6.75 hours. Stopped at superchargers twice each way for 20 mins. got coffee, rest stop and ready to go. The supercharger network is getting bigger and faster. This was with level 2 chargers, wait till level 3 chargers will be even faster. I had a Chevy bolt for 10 years, only 35 miles a charge (now more) but if you get a Tesla you have access to more miles per charge and the supercharger network. Do your research. It gets easier and easier to drive EV’s all the time. Also the comment about EV’s creating more pollution based on how they are made has been debunked. Many have $$ invested in seeing EV’s fail (oil companies, Koch bros, traditional car makers who want you to get more maintenance at their dealerships because they make money that way and EV’s need less maintenance so they don’t like that). Consider the source. You can now go EV and drive cross country, you have to choose the right EV. If you don’t road trip you can get a less expensive EV with less range and no supercharger access and charge at home. It depends on what you want. You don’t buy a sports car to haul gear like a pick up. Choose your vehicle for your purpose, don’t pan EV’s, that’s silly.
Great article to jump start debate. I’m on my 4th Camry hybrid. 34 miles to the gallon. I pay about $2.50 a gallon. Another person posted they pay $10.02 for a 325 mile charge. I pay a little under $25 for that same mileage. Is a plugging worth $15 every 325 miles? If I drive 10,000 miles a year that’s a $450 per year savings? I’m rethinking my next hybrid. I hold my hybrid about 5 years. $2k savings vs the sticker price and hassle? Versus going totally green. I’d be interested in someone’s thoughts on gas powered SUV’s?
Just recently a Tesla Model 3 owner in Norway just traveled 1000 Km in 10 hours. Hardly inconvenient. YMMV
I don’t own an electric car.
What a ridiculous article on so many levels…
A few couple of immediate thoughts:
Most people do road trips like that infrequently at most. If you do, and you have range anxiety or limited time, rent a gas guzzler or buy a longer range electric. An electric car makes all the sense in the world if you can charge at home, have terrible public transport (i.e. LA where I live) and you use it for your daily commute.
The early and extensive build-out of the SuperCharger network by Tesla continues to be a huge competitive advantage (and brilliant move). The other U.S. and the German automakers don’t have a chance to compete with Tesla in the short term. While Audi and Porsche launch expensive and probably unreliable competitors that still don’t match the range of Teslas, Tesla begins offering even longer range options.
…now, let me get out that New York Times paper weekend edition as the battery on my phone is getting low as I wait in line at the JiffyLube for my oil to be changed some time this afternoon.
A 2017 Chevy Volt now costs $17K and can do a daily electric-only commute, and could make that LA to LV drive using its backup gas engine. This actually kind of makes sense to me, as $17k is the most I have ever spent on a car. Versus true EV’s, especially Teslas, which are less about practicality and more about luxury, status, and environmentalism. Granted many Americans will drop $40k+ (often that they don’t have) on a car or truck, and if someone is in the market for a BMW Series 3 it makes sense to consider a Model 3 too. But call a Tesla what it is: a luxury and sports drive that proves one’s environmentalist cred.
Automate the interstates first for self driving vehicles and freight trucks. Focus on electric vehicles later. Expend no funds for high speed trains. Lets modernize our beautiful interstate system and reap unbelievable productivity increase in the next decades.
You are making the assumption that the country will legislate your idea into existence. Maybe…. ehh. Of course electric cars already exist, and Teslas are the closest to self driving vehicles for their fleet. I will never buy an internal combustion engine car again, they are inferior products.
Drive your electric vehicle happily after. It is the automated Interstate that matters not the mode of propulsion. The U.S. finally took my advice on U.S._ China trade divorce so why not automated interstates.
Never seen such level of ignorance displayed in such a short article. Can you answer this
How many gas stations where available when gas powered cars first hit the road?
How much did a gas powered car cost before the model T?
Was it less expensive to travel by horse buggy or gas powered car at the beginning?
Why are you such a Tesla hater?
Now here is my take
Technology advancements are always unstoppable. You can delay but never stop. It is call human ingenuity. No it will not be different this time
The cost of alternative energy generation is now lower or at par with gas based generation. Even if you do not believe that, you have to admit that alternatives are dropping in cost way faster than oil or carbon based electric generation. We still have not hit a wall on alternatives efficiency like we have with oil based fuels.
Just like in the past with anything technology related the features and cost will drop faster than old mechanical based stuff like gas based cars. Electrics are simpler than gas cars. While gas car required increase complexity to increase efficiency electrics do not.
So basically Mish I recommend you stop hating a future that is coming even if you do not like it.
Lack of knowledge on a subject matter should disqualify you from writing an article. As the owner of a Tesla Model 3 in the last year I have put 31k miles on this car, most of them from road trips. My 325 mile range is more than sufficient for trips to anywhere. Charging when needed takes roughly 15-20 minutes. Which is easily the same amount of time spent filling up, using the restroom and grabbing a snack. V3 chargers are rolling out now that will increase these speeds and improvements are constantly being made. Not only have I not spent $4,200 on 1,410 gallons of gas for these last 31k miles my maintenance is almost non existent unless you count windshield fluid and a set of tires. Is it as 100% as conventional as a ICE car no, but the absolutely marginal difference is worth the gain by far and it should be obvious to everyone that electric technology is where a majority everyone’s R&D is being invested now. It is only going to get better.
This story is totally misleading. Driving across the country in a Tesla is a breeze with quick recharge stops every 250 miles or so. Chevy Volt / Bolt or other EVs are problematic, they don’t have a charging network like Tesla.
Bring back the Chevy Volt! Elon Musk and others just don’t get it. Primary electric with a fall back gasoline generator is the perfect solution for consumers. I’ve had a Volt for years and during a normal week consume zero gallons of gas. If I decide to drive to Vegas, I’ll fill up with gas after exceeding my electric range and continue on without having to wait one second for an electric charging station. Why does Elon Musk refuse to add an electric generator to the Tesla? I’d actually buy one, and so would a ton of other people! I refuse to spend the kind of money that Tesla charges only to deal with range anxiety and long waits to charge my vehicle. Chevrolet if you made the Volt half way decent looking you could have given Tesla a run for their money. Instead you cancelled the Volt to the favor of making pure electric. I don’t get it.
Sad to see FUD here. You’re typically well informed, but this has horrible examples to prove your thesis.
Long wait times are only on holiday weekends, on well traveled routes, in areas with high number of EVs. This is called growing pains.
Battery tech is improving 5%/year and Tesla is making even more progress with charge times.
A Bolt is NOT a car for traveling long distances. It’s debatable if it can even “fast charge”. Why not use a Tesla which is seeing the standard for EVs.
Please show a chart for auto driving patterns. A Bolt covers over 80% of most use cases. That’s called a 2nd car that’s full charged every morning.
If EVs were viable (Teslas nearly exclusively), who will lose out? The list is long very long and they have deep pockets. Think about that.
FYI – Tesla will be selling a couple million vehicles in 5 years. The rest of the market can’t match Tesla’s range from 7 years ago.
I saw the NYT story and as a long-time EV driver the math just didn’t work for me. Driving an EV isn’t like driving a ICE vehicle. Driving a EV REQUIRES planning ahead and paying close attention to energy management. The guys in the NYT story drove the Bolt like they would drive any other Chevy. That was their first mistake. Not to mention not doing any planning ahead for charging stops, which should have included alternate locations.
So, LA to LV is about 270 miles. At an average speed of 62 mph that’s roughly 4 hours and 20 minutes. Considering temperature, terrain and speed I’m estimating the Bolt has a true highway range of about 118 to 120 miles on this particular trip. That’s maybe 3 charging stops. Assuming Level-3 charging the whole way and 80% of charge = 1 hour we are looking at only roughly 7 hours max for the whole trip. That’s including charging. Then I plotted the trip using PlugShare. The only working Level-3 fast charging available is at the ‘World’s Largest Thermometer’ 177 miles into the trip. The problem isn’t the Bolt, it’s the charging infrastructure. Our only car is an EV. Contrary to the B.S. misconception and belief: “People buy EVs or hybrids on the questionable belief they are doing something for the environment.” EVs are far more economical to drive on a regular basis. THAT is why we drive an EV. We drive between 1,400 & 1,600 miles a month for an average of around $38.
As a seasoned EV driver with only an EV I would have looked at this trip much differently. A quick check of PlugShare would have made this a No Go for the EV. Only an idiot, a glutton for punishment or a reporter determined to prove EVs are a bad idea would be stupid enough to entertain such a trip in an EV. A quick check of rental cars tells me round-trip is about $140 including gas. For the same money however, Amtrak will get me from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in 6-8 hours each way. Flying is about double that cost and about the same amount of time. Since I save so much money by not daily buying gas or maintaining a gasoline car I can easily afford other, sometimes better options.
All the positive aspects of electric cars are ignored in this one sided article. I leased an electric car for 2 years and loved it. Some of the things I loved are ease of maintenance, No oil changes, running cold and smooth, extremely silent, very fast pick up. Just one negative aspect of charging inconvenience is so much emphasized in this article that all other positives are forgotten. A day is not far when we will be standing in line to get gasoline.
I am old enough to remember the 1973 arab oil embargo. People did wait in line. You are right on all counts.
My wife and I drive our Leaf < 30 miles/day in the city and easily charge from a 110 volt outlet overnight. Fueling our gas car every 2 months feels strange now and seems like a dirty, smelly, time-consuming experience by comparison. Still love driving the Leaf after 4.5 years and it’s lack of maintenance compared to the gas car. Never going back to gas if I can help it.
Gamble and lost. I won I had zero wasted time. Drove to the hotel had it plugged in had lots of fun for days went back home. Wonder what they are going to do with all those empty gas stations?
Obviously a lot of TESLA owners here that LOVE their cars..
I don’t love my car anymore than I love my claw hammer or drill motor or lawn mower,,, it’s just a tool…
Can’t imagine planning a trip based on where chargers are…
All this business about planning bath breaks, hotels, restaurants… ridiculous… I take food with me, want to be able to take alternate routes and any old back road, and pull over where ever when ever….
Nice thing about gas and diesel is you can carry them around in any old milk carton or bucket if necessary..
As for bragging about autopilot,, that has nothing to do with tesla,, just another technology being developed and available in many vehicles…
And the Tesla boys forget to mention the decrease in mileage when the Heating, Cooling, wipers etc are needed …
And of course we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Uncle $ugar wasn’t subsidizing this nonsense with My Tax Dollars,, (UnConstitutional subsidies BTW)
Boy yes you really little boy. Once there was Dino.
Thank God, Uncle $ugar is not subsidizing oil!! Can you just imagine if they were dumping billions into subsidizing oil???? I mean our gas prices would be half of what the rest of the world pays for fuel! Can’t imagine only paying 2-3 a gallon when the rest of the planet pays 5-6 a gallon. Now that would truly be unconstitutional.
Oh wait….
Did I just read “Nice thing about gas and diesel is you can carry them around in any old milk carton or bucket if necessary”? Good luck with that!!!
I didn’t love my cars either, until I bought my Tesla Model 3. I will never buy another internal combustion engine car again. They are inferior products.
If you own a Tesla, none of this EV article applies. Since Tesla is the dominate EV car, the article does not apply to 80% of EVs. It’s surprising how inaccurate the story is. I drove from Pismo Beach, CA to Las Vegas, 7 to 8 hours in a Gas car. In the Tesla, we stopped for lunch in Yermo and charged while having lunch and 15 minutes of charging in Primm. About 25 minutes was spent charging that otherwise would not have been spent. (Lunch and Primm.)
Ha! Speaking of Elon’s sanity, his thoughts on MMT probably go something like this…”Central banks must implement MMT for the people now because everyone should be able to buy a Tesla if they want to…”
AOC agrees…
Obviously someone (Wagner?) linked Mish’s article to an EV forum, hence the swarm of responses from new users. I don’t have a dog in this fight since I don’t care one way or the other about EVs, but it’s amusing anyway.
I hope these enthusiasts take this opportunity to learn about the horrors of central banking and modern monetary theory. It’s a far more important topic than the types of cars people drive, or debates about Elon Musk’s sanity!
Love your obsession with me, Tengen.
I also see that you have grown up since our last interaction and are not buying lottery put options.
Reporter forgot a important thing in calculating cost. Time is money. If driver is on a business trip, every hrs might cost hundreds dollar.
My time is worth about $100 an hour. I save about 12.5 hours a year in not stopping at the gas station every 10 days and changing oil twice a year in my Tesla Model 3. I will never buy another internal combustion engine car again. They are inferior products.
And don’t need to do smog check every 2 years. Plus probably have access to HOV lane.
What is this 2015 ? EVs have come a long way in the last couple of years. I used to love mish but this poorly researched shit bait makes me reconsider this blog. Most EVs will go further than this and studies show are much better for the environment even if fueled by fossil fuels. About 50 % of gas gets turned into heat EVs convert 95% into motion.
Yet another badly researched and biased story desperately trying to make a case for cars that run on what’s left of the dinosaur era. Just like their energy source they are destined to go extinct soon.
Mish failed to mention that most every EV owner charges at home overnight at a fraction of the cost of commercial charging stations, let alone the cost of gasoline. Full tank of electricity every morning. No more stops at dirty and smelly gas stations, oil drips in the garage, oil changes, etc.
My first EV was an e-Golf with only 100 miles range. Even with that limited range I rarely had to use commercial chargers, while it certainly wasn’t a road trip wonder. However, my Tesla S85 is the best road trip car ever. 260 miles range, autopilot, built in Slacker Radio and free Supercharging thatbInjave yet to wait in line for. I gladly stop for a 30min snack every few hours.
I’ve had many very European luxury and sports cars including Porsche 911, BMW M3 and M5, Audi A6 etc., and I would not trade my Model S for all of them combined.
If you’re not blindly cheering for gas guzzlers you might find that this video adds perspective: link to youtu.be
Enjoy!
So, first off this article is very biased. He is saying that because 1 person had trouble charging a vehicle from LA to LV, that all EVs take 5.5 hours to charge to cover 560 miles. This is not true. I own a Tesla model 3 and I can drive from LV to LA without stopping to charge. It would just take 40 minutes to charge up and make it back to LV. Also, charging only costs about $24 to drive from LA to Vegas and back. Which is about 1/3 the cost of gas. Again, this article is highly biased towards dinosaur burners.
This is an unbelievably bad article. Not only does it represent one EV experience as the norm but completely ignores the leading EV, Tesla, and the supercharger network.
First, road trips are a very small percentage of almost every American’s driving. Representing the road trip experience as the norm completely misrepresents the typical EV experience.
Second, had the author looked at Teslas, he would have seen that the 280 mile trip could have been done with one Supercharger stop for 20-30 minutes. While in LV, the Tesla could have been recharging while the driver was off doing other things. So, at the most it would be one hour extra for the round trip.
Thirdly, the reports of hour long waits at superchargers have been vastly overstated. There are several in California that have had some waits but they are the exception and no where near the norm. Tesla is continually adding Superchargers and upgrading ones that have crowding.
Fourth, the author fails to understand the power of charging networks. One of the reasons that Tesla is the leading EV is its supercharger network. People buy Teslas because of the Supercharger Network.
I could go on but will leave it at that.
Tesla Model 3 owner here. This article is silly and inaccurate. I frequently choose the electric sedan over our gas powered SUV on family road trips.
We start with a full 325 mile charge, the GPS tells us when to pull off for a supercharger and how long to plug in, then we pop back on the highway and the car drives itself…We’ve never waited in line or felt like we were stuck. After hitting the bathroom, grabbing a coffee, and changing the baby, it’s time to roll.
I’m actually taking it on a business trip tomorrow. She’s plugged in tonight and just booked a hotel with free electric charging in their parking garage. I know there are about 6 superchargers on my route but don’t plan to stop unless I need a bathroom or a bite. I’ll arrive refreshed after Autopilot does most of the driving, take advantage of free power while at the hotel, and come out ahead on corporate milage reimbursement.
Tell me more about this major headache?!?
I recently drove almost ten times that distance from Portland to Los Angeles and back in my Tesla. It was barely over 10 hours of total charge time, which on a 2000 mile trip was mostly overnight while I was sleeping. There where only two stops, one in Eugene and one in Bakersfield that were somewhat longer than a normal rest stop in an ICE vehicle.
As other people have commented, this article is very clickbaity as you are describing a Bolt yet have pictured a Tesla. And as other people have commented when V3 supercharging becomes available my charge time of 10 hours from Portland Oregon to Los Angeles California and back will be cut down to less than 6 hours. 4 of those hours will be on chargers at the hotels I’m staying at.
At home by utilizing time of use, I’m paying less than $4 to fill up my car.
Most important, I’m not being constantly exposed to gasoline fumes. Since buying an electric car, my sense of smell has returned. I didn’t even realize how much the smell of gasoline had disappeared into the background until I stepped into a Tesla.
I still own six ICE vehicles, mostly trucks, LPG, diesel and gas. The second that there is a viable electric alternative, I will be switching those out as well.
Indeed, such a skewed story invoking a NYT biased article of a Chevy bolt experiment while showing a Tesla pic. No wonder readers can’t decide if you’re a Tesla short or big oil interest driven. In my opinion this can’t be jotted down to ignorance or laziness in researching your subject so please tell us who’s your master?
Here is the scenario and situation where EV makes sense.
This is not at all realistic and likely written by someone who hasn’t driven an EV. I live a the east coast and drive a Chevy Bolt. I have done round trips of 500 miles in a day and did not spend more than 2 hours charging (the chargers were free on I-95). It is very rare that the range of my Chevy Bolt is insufficient and with proper planning trips of 500 miles are readily doable.
As a Bolt owner for about 16 months and nearly 50,000 trouble free miles, i find this article skewed. No comments about the virtual lack of maintenance costs. To date, I’ve had to rotate my tires and replace the cabin air filter. That’s it. And that’s all I have to do for another 50,000 miles. Also not called out is that most owners have an ICE car so that they can go on longer trips. I have a 125 mile daily commute and going to full electric was a fantastic choice.
You don’t actaully have to drive from LA to Las Vegas in an electric Chevy to know how it would go, sorry you had to experience that trouble! I would recommend using the electric vehicle for commuting, and if you need to do a road trip, I recommend renting a gas-powered car. Or flying. Too bad there isn’t a bullet train.
I have not written much on Facebook about a car I purchased about 8 months ago. I bought a Tesla Model 3. We liked it so much my wife got a blue Model 3 two months later. People ask me how do I like it, and the truth is I will NEVER buy a gasoline powered vehicle again.
“Clean” is how to describe this car in one word.
Clean, because there are no tailpipe emissions.
Clean, because I never stop for gas. It is always full every morning.
Clean, because electric is more efficient, cheaper and less polluting than gas.
Clean, because the motor has 2 moving parts and there is no oil to change.
Other great things about this American made car, is that it gets better with time. The software running the car is regularly updated wirelessly, like a smart phone. The auto park feature you can see here, was not part of the car when I bought it 8 months ago.
Another really cool aspect to this car is Autopilot. This feature is incredible and takes a lot of work out of driving. At this stage, the car can do all the driving on a freeway, including entering and exiting the freeway, maintaining and changing lanes, emergency braking to avoid collisions, slowing down to 0 if needed, speeding up as space opens up, and changing speed as speed limits vary. You have to see it to believe it.
Finally, people always ask about the range on these cars. Their standard range plus model 3 is rated at 240 mile. At 75 miles an hour on the interstate, you will get about 70% of that. Around town in stop and go traffic, the car regenerates energy and charges the battery as you slow down, 240 miles is very reasonable. When the weather is cold, the battery is less efficient and the range can decrease about 20-40%, depending on how cold it is. On road trips, the car will calculate your route and where to stop and for how long to charge the car at the Tesla Supercharger network the blankets the US, and extends into Canada and Mexico. I recommend all wheel drive and long range if you live where it snows frequently or travel on road trips.
If you are interested in a Model 3 or another Tesla, you basically buy them online. The Model 3 can now be bought for about $40,000, and this may seem like a lot, but you will save money on gas and maintenance, and there is a tax rebate of $3750, if you will pay that much in income taxes. If you order through this referral code, you will get up to 1000 miles in free supercharging though the end of the month. link to ts.la
Human threshold for DC current is 42 volt. Tesla fully charged batteries produce 375 volts. Touch the wrong thing and you become a human welding electrode.
You can also die if you drink the wrong liquid from ICE engine compartment container. I guess only the liquid in windshield wiper container is safe to drink unless you added additives there.
If you truly want to understand the safety aspects of EVs, then let me explain…
First of all, humans can tolerate DC way better than AC at the same voltages. I have been zapped by 120V AC multiple times and I am fine. For DC the voltage would have to be higher. Check ElectroBoom channel on youtube. He likes to experiment on himself with these kind of things.
Second, the car is not grounded to earth/soil. This means that you can independently touch positive or negative terminal of that 400V battery without risking of hurting yourself (of course as long as you don’t touch both battery terminals at the same time).
Third, the car frame is probably connected to the negative terminal. Which means you would have to peel off insulation of that positive wire and touch it to get electrocuted. But if this peeled positive wire touched the car chassis first, then fuses would blow off and there would be no more electric risk to you.
BTW, are you afraid of 240V electric clothes dryers too? Or non-US voltages that are 220V? I am actually more afraid of AC mains electricity than batteries, because
These risks are present every day in your home, but not in EV batteries.
DC is far more lethal than AC. I worked on the electric project early on. We had one casualty and there were 34 working on the project at the time. Betcha didn’t know that rescue squads are supposed to be trained (and aren’t 90% of the time) before they are allowed to intervene in an electric car accident. A trained technician must be on site to check accident for hot chassis, ect… but this rule seems to have been skipped too.
Comment has been categorized as TOTALLY IGNORANT – does not dignify a response.
If an BEV chassis ever becomes hot (or in “DC speak” becomes connected to +) then you have a short.
Either fuses go out in this scenario (most likely scenario). Or if they did not go out then you have batteries catching on fire.
The AC is more dangerous because the – (or in “AC speak” neutral) is connected to earth. It is enough to touch only hot wire to get shocked. For DC you have to touch both.
And can you tell in what way DC is more dangerous? Only for low capacitance circuits DC is more dangerous than AC.
Why are you posting a picture of a Tesla charging when its actually a Chevy Bolt having all the charging issues?
what a crock.
For the people who drive 400 miles every single day – no, electrics aren’t the best choice unless there’s an 8 hour gap between drive times. For everyone else, yea, electrics are smarter and better for the environment. What, I suppose we should all own and drive moving vans every single day since we might need to move our household at a moment’s notice?
I think I read the story wrong. 540 miles round trip…you should only need to charge once in a Model 3…and do that at your destination. 325 mile range gets you there if you’re fully charged from your home base. 325 miles more range at your destination.
Actually owning a Tesla is not as expensive as anybody would think here’s a YouTuber story from this week
link to youtu.be
Not that I would buy a Tesla, I own a Hyundai ioniq which is half the price
It is humorous to see al the Tesla Defenders here.
Cost of a Tesla is not exactly cheap – cannot possibly pay for itself
How much should any gas/diesel vehicle cost…and then we can go from there.
Mish, do you look only on MSRP or TCO to figure out if car is expensive or cheap?
Anyone proclaiming that Tesla is expensive by solely looking only at MSRP is making the same mistake as a stock analyst who would look on nominal stock price and proclaims that company trading at $5 share is better bargain than a company trading at $100 a share without looking at market cap and other factors.
Your technical, economic and environmental ignorance is humorous – thanks for making me laugh!
A Tesla Model 3 TCO analysis suggests it is cheaper than a Toyota Corolla. I will never buy an internal combustion engine car again.
Personally, I could not stand waiting a half hour let alone an hour.
If you wish your articles to be subjective and factual, please keep your personal opinions out of them. Your article is clearly opinionated, full of unsubstantiated conclusions and intentionally misleading.
Mish, tell us about your driving Month on average. Here is mine in my Model 3: 25 miles a day, for 26 out of 30 days. 4 days I put 125 miles. I don’t stop for gas 3 times in a month. 5 minutes out of the way, 7.5 minutes waiting in line. 5 minutes to fill up. One hour twice a year to change the oil. That is about 12 and half hours I don’t spend at the gas station every year. My car is full every morning. Oh yeah, that gas would cost me $110 a month at Sam’s. It costs $45 to fill up with wind energy derived electricity. I am saving $780 per year in fuel costs, and $100 per year in oil change costs and 12.5 hours a year in waiting time. I will never drive an internal combustion engine car again, it is an inferior product.
The New York Times article referenced here is actually grossly incorrect and includes “data” that was purposefully falsified… Please read through the link from Cleantechnica’s research into the article :
NYTimes Spreads Misinformation About EVs — Let’s Clean Up The Mess
June 22nd, 2019 by Dr. Maximilian Holland
I don’t get this story. Buy a Long Range Tesla Model 3 and you get 325 miles of range. Charge for 40 minutes on your way to Vegas from LA (I dunno..have a meal after 4 hours of driving while you charge this one time?), and you’ve arrived at your destination. At your destination, charge up while you gamble. What’s the problem here? That simulates how a normal person would drive any car going to Vegas. Also, there is no maintenance on an electric car, and when you’re home in LA, you charge your vehicle at home…no gas station stops needed….ever.
Oh and by the way it cost about $150 one way and $205 the other way for electricity. Compare that to gas prices.
This article is referencing a Chevy Bolt . Who’s overall battery and motor tech are a minimum of 12 years behind the current leader of Electric Vehicles –> Tesla. I own a 2019 Model 3 and travel almost 400 miles round trip one day a week for work… It currently costs me an average of $0.028 / mile. I have never waited for an open Bay at a Supercharger and regularly charge my vehicle in 45 minutes. This article is painting all EV’s with a BROAD brush and is very comical for anyone who owns a Tesla.
Yes, everyone has 50k laying around to buy a Tesla. Yeah those 35K Tesla’s haven’t really appeared.
Do they give a class to tesla owners on how to sound like a pompous ass? Seems like it.
Forgive me… Probably all of the Tesla commercials I see on TV subliminally brainwashing me into truly believing in their product… Or… The product they produce doesn’t disappoint their customers… One of those is correct btw
This is a crap article. Most hotels allow you to charge while you sleep. My Tesla model 3 can make the first leg of this trip without stopping and you just plug in at the hotel and have a full charge whenever you want to leave. Unless you were planning on doing this entire round trip in a single go, my EV would be faster, because I don’t ever have to stop to refuel. What’s the range on your ICE? 500 miles? You won’t make it to Vegas and back without getting gas. I’ll spend 5 seconds plugging my car in before going into the hotel and you’ll have to go out of your way to find a gas station, tell the machine you don’t want a receipt, swipe your card so some scammer can steal your number and then stand there and smell fumes. Unless you’re doing ridiculously long trips on a regular basis, EVs are faster and more convenient. They refuel while you sleep and take the same effort as plugging your phone in each night. If you do have to go cross-country, you just stop to charge when you’d be eating anyway. Unlike gas stations, supercharging stations usually have good food around so you eat while you fuel and literally by the time you’re done eating you’re charged. You can’t get more convenient than that. People just don’t like change. This is the future. It’s much better. I hate driving my ICE now.
Forgot to mention that charging at hotels is free, so I’ll spend $0 to charge during this trip and an ICE is going to spend $50-70 on gas?
free hotel = cost of gas otherwise = fair trade 🙂
That was a very misleading article. The $67 cost is if you’re using commercial charge stations. For most people most times charging at home cost a lot less than that. Also the picture showed a Tesla but Tesla with longer range batteries and faster and more readily available charging stations will do A LOT better than that.
Urban electric ca owners have little choice but to use commercial chargers.
As a Model 3 owner, we’ve done an 8,000 mile road trip from Oregon to Maryland and back again. No problems with the charging and with 310 mile range it’s nice to take a break every 3 to 5 hours. It was the most relaxing cross country drive we’ve done. Your opinions come across loud and clear but will not stand the test of time.
Do I understand correctly that NYT author went on a road trip with Chevy Bolt and then extrapolated Chevy Bolt observations to Tesla without ever taking the same road trip with a Tesla?
Really, does no one with 2 grams of brain allocated for critical thinking see what is wrong with such extrapolation?
Some hints:
Based on my experience Model 3 is just as fast as gasoline car on 1000mi/day road trips if
And what is the price difference between a Tesla and Bolt?
Even with that what is the cash flow and profitability of Tesla v.s. GM? On vehicle sales, not ZEV credits.
I don’t think Bolt has an autopilot or uplink to the mothership or the rest either.
Actually Total Cost of Ownership is way lower for Tesla. Mainly due to:
And base prices are actually very close – depending on what kind of trim you are getting.
P.S. I am not suggesting that Bolt is a bad car. Bolt is just not made for roadtrips. Though, It is a good town car if you have preference for a car that looks like an econobox.
The NYT author used a Chevy Bolt. The only practical long range EV is a Tesla because only Tesla invested in a dedicated high speed charging network. I periodically drive 300 miles between cities through the rural mountains of WV and MD, never waited for a Supercharger and stop for about 15 minutes to top up midway and for a bathroom/coffee break. EV charging at home has no incremental cost (solar covers annual house and EV needs) and charging on the road is still cheaper than gas. Crowding of chargers might be a bit different on the West Coast, but EV living in my part of the east is trivial and the car does most of the driving (under supervision of course).
The situation is even worse. I live in a condo complex. Number of charging bays:0. I wouldn’t even have the option of starting the day with a full charge.
Changes are coming requiring parking lot or condo complexes to put chargers in. Agreed if you dont having a charging option, this might not work for you. But it sure make senses for a lot of other folks.
If you can park near a regular 110V plug and are allowed to use that at home and at work, you’d probably still be fine. You’ll charge about 50 miles worth of range while you’re home and about 40 at work. If your commute is >90 miles and you don’t have access to a 220V outlet somewhere you’re normally parked anyway, then you should stick with an ICE car for now.