Mish’s Military Record
I have no military record. If drafted, I would have refused to go. I am damn proud of my record of not killing innocent people simply because my government demanded it.
I admire anyone brave enough and smart enough to go to prison rather than kill innocent people for no reason.
Unlike Ali, I was never put to the test. My number never came up. But I assure you, I would not have gone to Vietnam.
Had enough people had the same moral conviction, the Vietnam War would have ended sooner. The war finally did end when enough people realized how stupid it was and demanded change.
Wikipedia offers this reflection on Muhammad Ali.
> In 1966, two years after winning the heavyweight title, Ali further antagonized the white establishment by refusing to be drafted into the U.S. military, citing his religious beliefs and opposition to American involvement in the Vietnam War. He was eventually arrested, found guilty of draft evasion charges, and stripped of his boxing titles. He successfully appealed the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, which overturned his conviction in 1971, by which time he had not fought for nearly four years and thereby lost a period of peak performance as an athlete. Ali’s actions as a conscientious objector to the war made him an icon for the larger counterculture generation.
America Needs the Muhammad Ali Doctrine
Foreign Policy Magazine writes America Needs the Muhammad Ali Doctrine.
> Has any country ever spent as much money, time, and effort fighting to control places as irrelevant to the long-term balance of power as Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, or Yemen, not to mention its recent actions in Libya and in various parts of sub-Saharan Africa? The United States has little to show for these efforts—in some cases, indeed, things have gotten worse—even as infrastructure back home keeps decaying, social problems multiply, and political divisions inside the country deepen. It’s worth remembering that this sort of response is precisely what Osama bin Laden hoped to provoke by attacking the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. He probably underestimated America’s fragility, but there’s little doubt that the reaction to 9/11 did more harm to the United States than the attacks themselves.
> Meanwhile, while the United States has been squandering wealth and attention in distant lands, China has been following the playbook that America used in its earlier rise to world power: stay out of trouble abroad and build a world-class economy at home. Beijing still faces many challenges—as Michael Beckley makes clear in a terrific new book—but it has maximized its prospects by not trying to run the world and by not trying to do nation-building in places that are far from China both geographically and politically.
> The lesson, in short, is that great powers can often advance their own interests and long-term power position by letting rivals take on high-cost, low-benefit projects that distract and divert them and drain their resources. In short, they do the rope-a-dope, or what John Mearsheimer calls a “bait and bleed” strategy, trying to lure rivals into costly and unwinnable conflicts while they remain aloof.
Rope-a-Dope
Foreign Policy is correct, of course. But it does not go far enough in its criticisms of McCain.
Fake Patriots
Patriotism is not about fighting stupid wars and killing innocent men, women, and children simply because a government asks you to do so.
Please recall the Nuremberg Trials.
It was as “patriotic” to kill Vietnamese as it was “patriotic” to kill Jews simply because you were ordered to do so.
Chamberlain
Warmonger advocates will inaccurately compare me to Chamberlain.
But where was “Hitler” in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria?
The answer is nowhere. Hussein killed political opponents. He had no desire to conquer the world.
Hussein was no saint, but he led a secular government. There was freedom of religion in Iraq. There isn’t today.
Idiotic US policy, that McCain supported, directly led to the creation of Isis.
It’s the Oil, Stupid
If there was no oil in the Mideast, we would not be there at all. Many countries in Africa have worse things going on.
Heck, the US even gave Hussein his chemical weapons. There are images and videos of former secretary of defense Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein.
In a declassified document Rumsfeld ‘offered help to Saddam’.
> On November 1 1983, the secretary of state, George Shultz, was passed intelligence reports of “almost daily use of CW [chemical weapons]” by Iraq.
> However, 25 days later, Ronald Reagan signed a secret order instructing the administration to do “whatever was necessary and legal” to prevent Iraq losing the war.
> Howard Teicher, an Iraq specialist in the Reagan White House, testified in a 1995 affidavit that the then CIA director, William Casey, used a Chilean firm, Cardoen, to send cluster bombs to use against Iran’s “human wave” attacks.
> A 1994 congressional inquiry also found that dozens of biological agents, including various strains of anthrax, had been shipped to Iraq by US companies, under licence from the commerce department.
> Furthermore, in 1988, the Dow Chemical company sold $1.5m-worth (£930,000) of pesticides to Iraq despite suspicions they would be used for chemical warfare.
Other Side of McCain
Consortium News offers what I view as a “must read” take on The Other Side of John McCain by Max Blumenthal.
> In Libya and Syria, McCain cultivated affiliates of Al Qaeda as allies, and in Ukraine, McCain courted actual, sig-heiling neo-Nazis.
> While McCain’s Senate office functioned as a clubhouse for arms industry lobbyists and neocon operatives, his fascistic allies waged a campaign of human devastation that will continue until long after the flowers dry up on his grave.
> American media may have sought to bury this legacy with the senator’s body, but it is what much of the outside world will remember him for.
McCain With Al Qaeda
McCain with FSA
McCain in Ukraine
Coddling the Neo-Nazis of Ukraine
> On December 14, 2013, McCain materialized in Kiev for a meeting with Oleh Tyanhbok, an unreconstructed fascist who had emerged as a top opposition leader. Tyanhbok had co-founded the fascist Social-National Party, a far-right political outfit that touted itself as the “last hope of the white race, of humankind as such.” No fan of Jews, he had complained that a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” had taken control of his country, and had been photographed throwing up a sieg heil Nazi salute during a speech.
> McCain was so committed to replacing an independent-minded government with a NATO vassal that he even mulled a military assault on Kiev. “I do not see a military option and that is tragic,” McCain lamented in an interview about the crisis.
Max Blumenthal is an award-winning journalist and the author of books including best-selling Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement That Shattered the Party, Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel, The Fifty One Day War: Ruin and Resistance in Gaza, and The Management of Savagery, which will be published later this year by Verso. He has also produced numerous print articles for an array of publications, many video reports and several documentaries including Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie and the forthcoming Killing Gaza.
Running and Screaming
Patriotism? Where?
You can support torture, drones, Iraq, Vietnam, and anything else on grounds of patriotism.
On the same grounds, you may as well support killing Jews or “Gooks” as McCain called the North Vietnamese.
But I won’t.
I praise Muhammad Ali, a man of conviction, integrity, and a man willing to tell his government to go to hell, on that basis of higher principles.
That’s true patriotism.
Killing innocent people simply because your government orders you to do so, isn’t.
But McCain went well beyond following orders. He openly sought ties with neo-Nazis and Al Qaeda groups.
Piss vs Praise
If you seek someone worthy of praise, try Ali. McCain was a despicable human being deserving ridicule and scorn.
Related Articles
- McCain’s “Legacy” Lives On: What “Legacy” Is That?
- Best Way to Say Farewell to McCain: Piss on His Grave
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
This is an interesting perspective, that of the objector to war and its effects on our global neighbors. What I find compelling about Mish’s particular stance is that while he is openly critical of McCain’s stance, and additionally supportive of more widespread dissent towards the draft, I see no similar objection towards how we, as citizens of the U.S., continually support military actions all over the globe.
By paying our taxes, we feed the war machine that is operating in Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. I would agree that the separation is far different than serving in the military but to be clear, blood is on the hands of every American (myself included) that supports the government in its overt and clandestine military operations the world over.
In other words, Mish, you are not on the moral high ground here. Perhaps you are further up the hill than some, but as a bigger earner than most, you feed the animal that ravages the world all the same as the rest of us.
I somewhat agree but would soften this perpective to be realistic. It is our electorate’s support of politicians that enable the blood on America’s hands, that is complicit in these mass murders. However individuals within the electorate that act to vote against warmonger politicians such as McCain and most of the rest of our government are not complicit. Both Trump and Hillary voters are guilty. In this case Green voters and certain Libertarian isolationists get a pass.
Not paying your taxes, also means not supporting your fair share of other beneficial expenditures, and will land yourself in jail and without any ability to alter the system, which is admittedly rigged that way. Basically, not paying your taxes, gives the warmongers an excuse to remove you as a voter. If one could organize this action in sufficient mass then it could be effective and not suicidal.
I am more and more inclined to the position of “America, love it and leave it.” It’s almost time for me to toddle off to Costa Rica.
You want Mish to go to prison for not paying his taxes?
Mish, thank you for publishing the truth when the media are drowning us with false praise for a war criminal thug like McCain. It is impossible to turn on the TV now without being disgusted by the virtue signalling of both the left and the right. Their state worship is abhorrent.
I am a veteran, and I mostly agree with Mish about McCain.
Asking me, what I would have done in WWII, as pi314 did, is of course idiotic. Here’s why:
If pi314 was born in Nazi Germany and was not a Jew it is highly likely he would have killed Jews.
But in reality, no one can say for sure what one would have done in alternate circumstances.
I can say how I DID react and my reasons why. I am proud of my stance. We can also say, without a doubt McCain supported Neo-Nazis and death squads.
McCain took one path, I took another. And that’s a fact, not speculation.
“If pi314 was born in Nazi Germany and was not a Jew it is highly likely he would have killed Jews.”
I don’t believe you would have done that. In fact, many Germans deserted.
We may be talking past each other but I believe many in the western countries today, especially among ‘highly educated’, will refuse to serve if there is another WWII. So this is not exactly an idiotic question.
There’s not going to be another WWII, so who cares? MAD still applies and, if you haven’t noticed, modern wars around the world are sectarian conflicts. Outside countries often meddle, but the blueprint is that multiple sides are played against each other indefinitely.
The next full blown US war would be a civil war, which would be catastrophic. The vast majority of the country would lose bigly while a few profiteers flourish. To some extent we would all be forced to participate in that scenario.
thank you very much for telling the truth Mish, i wish they were more patriots like you, and less like McCain. He’s gone but unfortunately there will always be evil people perpetuating these atrocious policies.
Most people still dont know the half of it, and McCain still kept getting re-elected, which tells the story of why we are where we are. The establishment always protects the establishment.
Every war since WWII has been a fraud, and even WWI was a false flag (Lusitania, and as noted, reparations provide the requisite financial collapse that gave Hitler footing. Even still, the financial blockade of Japan pushed Japan to the point of desperation, and we knew the attack on Pearl Haber was coming, but the excuse to enter war was needed.
McCain is dead. The focus should be on the rest of the swamp that is desperately trying to take down Trump, so they can get back to fraudulent business as usual.
Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!
It is a no brainer for Mish (who is invested in Russian equity markets) to be happy that John McCain (a well known Hawk supporting sanctions against Russia) is gone.
How fitting that warmongering fools equate investment ideas to a post about morals.
Hit a nerve, didn’t I?
Can you promise to piss on Putin’s grave when the time comes? He has quite a lot of blood on his hands too.
“I have no military record. If drafted, I would have refused to go. I am damn proud of my record of not killing innocent people simply because my government demanded it.”
You are too intelligent to make such a broad statement. The US military protects American interests all the time (e.g. WWII, Cuban crisis.) We would have been under the Nazi today had everyone acted selfishly/foolishly in WWII.
My statement stands, and it is accurate. I never said we should not have stood up to Hitler. But bear in mind, the US stupidly entering WWI prolonged the war. Then war reparations and hyperinflation paved the way for Hitler. People play the “Hitler” card all the time. Inaccurately. There has not been a Hitler, since Hitler. And if following your country out of patriotism is a good idea, then so was killing Jews and Gooks. My moral compass is correct.
That’s a false dichotomy. Fighting in World War II and opposing the Vietnam War are very different things. First, in WW II the U.S. was directly attacked and presented with an existential threat given you say “We would have been under the Nazi today…” No one can seriously say we would have been under Vietnamese rule today if we didn’t fight in Vietnam. The fact we finally left and nothing happened here proves that. The point is that WW II had broad support given the nature of the conflict, the Vietnam War eroded support as it became obvious the government was lying. It is that lying which necessitates citizens questioning the use of military force by our government.
Very accurate – Thanks
Where did I mention Vietnam? I simply objected to Mish’s 100% anti-war statement. Even in his reply below, Mish still avoids answering whether he would serve in WWII and the like. The anti-war people are hypocrites.
You call him a hypocrite yet fail to refute his statement in any way whatsoever. Do you think it’s right to kill for your country even if your country is wrong?
I did not bring up Vietnam war. I brought up WWII. So what is your question?
By saying the US military protects American interests “all the time,” it seems odd you’re not including the third largest conflict (by number of US military deaths) of the 20th century.
“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.
The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.
Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.” ~ James Madison
Awesome post Mish!!
Thanks
I pay my taxes and have obeyed all laws, although I have been fortunate that I have not been asked to obey ones I would deem morally dubious. I think that is all the “service” that should be expected of a citizen. I respect anyone who has served in the military and their obvious commitment to our country, but putting them in harms way for little or no purpose hardly brings glory to their service. Do we need more wars to provide more people with opportunities for this type of service? I certainly don’t think so. I also detest the idea that not having served in the military precludes you from expressing an opinion about the use of America’s military in other countries.
Excellent!
My thoughts precisely.