The F-150 Lightning line may be shut down for good.
No One Wants EV Trucks
That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. In October, Ford sold just 1,500 Lightnings, the fewest of any model.
The Wall Street Journal reports Ford Considers Scrapping Electric Version of F-150 Truck
Ford Motor (F) executives are in active discussions about scrapping the electric version of its F-150 pickup, according to people familiar with the matter, which would make the money-losing truck America’s first major EV casualty.
The Lightning, once described by Ford as a modern Model T for its importance to the company, fell far short of expectations as American truck buyers skipped the electric version of the top-selling truck. Ford has racked up $13 billion in EV losses since 2023.
“The demand is just not there” for F-150 Lightning and other full-size trucks, said Adam Kraushaar, owner of Lester Glenn Auto Group in New Jersey. He sells Ford, GMC, Chevy and other brands. “We don’t order a lot of them because we don’t sell them.”
Ram truck-maker Stellantis earlier this year called off plans to make an electric version of its full-size pickup. General Motors executives have discussed discontinuing some electric trucks, according to people familiar with the matter. Sales of Tesla’s angular, stainless steel Cybertruck pickup tanked this year. And EV truck-maker Rivian has been cutting jobs to conserve cash.
A turn away from electric full-size trucks would align with Ford CEO Jim Farley’s more recent comments about the market: that EVs are great for commuting and other local driving, while hefty trucks will continue to need hybrid or all-gasoline powertrains.
In October, the first month since the end of the federal EV tax credit, Ford’s overall EV sales in the U.S. fell 24% from a year earlier. Ford dealers sold 66,000 gas-powered F-Series pickups, up a tick from a year earlier, and just 1,500 Lightnings, the fewest of any model.
When Ford’s Farley launched the Lightning five years ago he promised a pickup as fast as a sports car and as affordable as a conventional truck. It would drive hundreds of miles on a single charge, and carry enough voltage to power a home for days.
“It’s like a smartphone that can tow 10,000 pounds,” Farley said at a celebration to launch the vehicle.
GM has also lost billions on electric trucks after rolling out a string of them in recent years, including an electric version of the F-150’s rival, the Chevrolet Silverado. The company has three electric pickups, and it sold about 1,800 of them last month, according to Motor Intelligence.
Ford’s Farley has conceded that, when it comes to EVs, Americans want smaller, affordable models like those sold by Chinese automakers in markets outside the U.S., and not big, pricey trucks. The company is now racing to build a compact $30,000 EV pickup.
Truck Buyers Have Spoken
I have a suggestion.
Instead of building a compact $30,000 EV pickup, try building a $18,000 EV car built for city driving.
BYD Reveal Cheap Kei Car – The Brands Cheapest EV EVER
The Electric Viking reported “BYD has unveiled its most affordable electric vehicle yet — a compact Kei car designed for urban driving and priced to undercut all previous models. This tiny EV marks BYD’s bold entry into the ultra-low-cost segment, targeting Japan and other city-focused markets.”
Ford CEO: China’s EV Costs, Tech, and Quality “Far Superior” to the West
On June 30, I noted Ford CEO: China’s EV Costs, Tech, and Quality “Far Superior” to the West
“Drivers get in the car and their phone pairs automatically, and an AI companion equivalent to ChatGPT handles everything from navigation to entertainment. The vehicles also have facial recognition that knows which seat someone is in and adjusts media preferences.“
In China, BYD offers a range of electric vehicles (EVs) at various price points, with some models starting under $10,000. For example, the BYD Seagull EV has a starting price of 69,800 yuan (approximately $9,555) and can be found with discounts down to 55,800 yuan (about $7,780). The company also offers more premium models like the Han EV, which starts at around $32,800.
Ford talks about a $30,000 EV truck, but by the time the thing is loaded with what consumers expect, the price will be $42,000.
So aim for $18,000 and offer something very good for $19,800.
Zoomers will buy it. They are not buying trucks. And the boomers who are buying trucks don’t want an EV.
Tesla Cybertruck Sales Are Flatlining
The Verge reports Tesla Cybertruck Sales Are Flatlining
Tesla only sold 5,385 Cybertrucks in the third quarter, down 63 percent compared to the same period in 2024, when the automaker delivered over 14,000. The company has sold a little more than 16,000 Cybertrucks so far in 2025 — a far cry from the 250,000 that Elon Musk once predicted would be sold annually. Tesla is now expected to deliver around 20,000 Cybertrucks this year, a steep drop from the estimated 50,000 sold in 2024.
[This next paragraph is downright funny].
Other electric trucks haven’t fared as poorly as the Cybertruck. The Rivian R1T is up 13 percent this quarter year over year, while the Ford F-150 Lightning is up 39.7 percent.
[Yeah right. Discuss percentages when the actual numbers are laughable. And it was all about a fool’s mission on the last EV incentives that Trump removed. The next paragraph is my hoot of the day.]
Things have gotten so dire for the Cybertruck that Elon Musk has resorted to selling them to himself. As Electrek reports, Tesla has been delivering unsold Cybertrucks to Musk’s private companies, SpaceX and xAI. The trucks that are going to SpaceX are intended to replace the company’s fleet of internal-combustion engine vehicles, according to the site.
VW Downgraded Forecasts Three Times this Year, a Big Warning for GM?
On October 31, I noted VW Downgraded Forecasts Three Times this Year, a Big Warning for GM?
It’s been a really bad year for VW. What’s ahead for the US?
Small EVs should be inexpensive but they aren’t. Trump has walled off the US with tariffs.
GM and Ford union costs are massive. Both Ford and GM lost huge amounts of money on EVs.
First, Biden tried to force then issue. Now, Trump wants to roll back time.
Neither approach will work. The result is the high-priced cars and no incentive to innovate with unions fighting innovation every step of the way.
Zoomers would love a $15,000 middle of the road BYD but Trump says no.
Regardless, one thing is clear at Ford, GM, and Tesla: Consumers don’t want EV trucks.
BYD may look like an affordable car, but it’s really a Trojan horse.
How is that? They are throughout Asia and I have driven them. Fantastic cars, no problems, lots of “futuristic” features
I have a Tesla Y that I drove 19,000 miles this past year (and yes, I paid more than $18,000 for that vehicle). But I also paid $788 in total in electric charging to drive that many miles (that info is easily accessible by year, month, day, trip, etc. within the Tesla phone app). That’s all in on non-fixed-cost pricing as I didn’t have to pay for new oil, timing belt adjustments, spark plug replacement, etc.
How many gas tank fill-ups would an ICE vehicle driver get for $788 and how far could they drive with that much gas?
And that’s assuming I actually pay for that electricity. 80% of my electric charging was done at home (the rest was via superchargers across multiple states to visit the beach a couple of times). But in reality, I have solar PVs on my home that completely offset that Tesla home charging for free daily marginal-cost driving around my city.
I like markets. So if people don’t like EVs, it doesn’t bother me personally at all. But like much of economic/psychological theory shows, consumers pay more for what they want (or think they need), and oftentimes regret it later.
As more and more people read and learn about how daily car driving economics (and expenses) can change with an EV purchase, I’d bet more and more make the switch. But yes, actual work trucks probably won’t go mostly electric for quite some time.
You missed some a glaring discrepancy. Electric energy does not have the level of taxes gas has. Once governments figure out how to tax EV electric use, they will.
Additional demand for electricity by AI data centers will force price hikes as well.
For now, enjoy the arbitrage.
road tax
I don’t know about your thesis, Mish, of low price being so important to EV adoption. I prefer to look at the data.
Here are the top 10 cheapest new cars in the US:
https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/cheapest-new-cars/
Here are the top 25 best selling new cars in the US:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars-2025/
There’s only an overlap of 3 models between the two lists (and two of the best-selling models are non-cheap EVs).
Americans don’t seem to like cheap cars generally. But once they actually acknowledge how much EVs can save them over the long term in daily/maintenance costs (that they seem to complain about constantly), I’m making my own stock bets more and more new car buyers will turn to EVs. And definitely so – yes – if some of the newer EVs get even cheaper with economies of scale of battery production that is happening even across the US
Ask Zoomers what they want.
Sure, if we only want to analyze 21% of the population and believe that particular population is 100% homogenous in their preferences.
But car makers focus on the total population of buyers for a (profit-driven) reason. If someone here thinks they know and can give a particular group of car buyers exactly what they want at the price they’ll pay, I’d recommend them opening up a new niche car company and reap the incredible profits.
In Canada, with the auto makers closing plants and resettling in the USA, there is talk of inviting some Chinese auto manufacturers to take over the idling plants.
“when it comes to EVs, Americans want smaller, affordable models like those sold by Chinese automakers in markets outside the U.S.”
Didn’t something similar to this happen in the 1980s? If only manufacturers would produce what consumers want…too bad the folks in corporate didn’t have a history book handy.
What was that Sun Tzu Art of War quote about EVs?
When your enemy is lost & can’t find the right direction, don’t hand him a map.
Mish, why don’t the manufacturers offer hybrids that function like the Prius. My friend has a couple of Kia’s like this and he gets 50 mpg.
The idiots in Government and industry just can’t think. Anybody with a brain could have seen this Ford fiasco coming. If you didn’t, you should really get back to the world of reality.
Our Chevy spark ev has been a very good car. It is 10years old now, but driving it conservatively around town we always get better than 5miles per kw-hr. Charging at night when electric rates are low (California) means my 25 mile round trip commute costs under a dollar. It is small, but for running around town we love it. That been said, I will never buy another gm product again as their customer service is appalling,
There are cost issues but also performance issues with electric truck. It is just not good enough doing real truck things, just like many ev cars are not great outside of the city/suburbs.
Most people that have trucks don’t use them for real truck things
I live next to Kennedy Space Center in Florida where SpaceX has its primary manufacturing and launch facility. Most of the cybertrucks I see have a white wrap and SpaceX sticker. Fortunately for the drivers the windows have dark window tinting so you can’t see them.
There are a lot of cars that cannot be sold in the United States because of our safety testing. Although it is a law in in nearly every state to wear a seat belt, the test dummies do not wear seat belts. This makes it very difficult for many foreign vehicles to qualify for the American market.
This is an area where a little Common Sense could be applied to make better cars more available. I suspect the Big 3 would actually block such common sense.
If they had to compete they would die.
Foreign cars tested in the US use crash test dummies with seat belts. The use of dummies with seat belts is a standard practice.
A 300 pound boomer can hardly reach F-150 cabin. Mach-E and Ford van ev sales plunged. The EV tax break expired. Ford Bronco chewed up F-150 Ice sales. American women love OJ Simpson. The new Ford Territory hybrid is borderless. Ford utilities are in the money. Ford cannot make money selling small car. Consumers cannot afford $70K/$153K cars. Ford shifted to the center. Ford is centric. Ford is a bank. BYD destroyed VW and BMW in Germany. BYD “announcements” to open plants in Canada and Mexico were cancelled after Trump threatened to spank them with tariffs. BYD doesn’t have a passport to the US. The bible: spank your child if he/she misbehave. Tariffs worked. Don’t spank PapiD again !
Put down the bong.
Michael, put down the keyboard.
(People like having options!)
Mike, I like your reports. Good analysis, useful and sharp. But I disagree with one small item. Consumers actually want electric trucks. I’ve got a farm and a place up north. I have an old F-150. Great unit. I test-drove a Cybertruck earlier this year. It was astonishingly good. I absolutely LOVED it. It was so nimble-feeling, I didn’t even try the autodrive feature – but I watched the on-board neural-network identify and display on-screen all traffic. I ran if out on the local highway. It was really fun and great to drive. So, I really want one. I really, really want one.
Now, there are a few available – and there is a demo model, with 8000 km on it, which the local Tesla dealership can get at a lower price – and I have the quote on my fridge, with a magnet: Because it’s used, I avoid the $2,750 Delivery/Final Inspection Fee. The Cdn$ price is: $133,250.00, and the Sales Tax is $17,698.46. With some other small fees, the total cost for this demonstrator Cybertruck, is: $153,899.46
As Musk would say: Let that sink in. $153,899.46
For a nice truck, yes. But this is more that I paid for a very nice piece of waterfront property, back in 2015.
People want EV’s, and in Canada, everybody wants a truck. But the economics has become looney-tune silly. It’s just insane. And in a high-tax economy like Canada, I need to earn maybe $250,000, to have $150,000 left to buy my Cybertruck.
I used to do tech-work in the big city. But now, I am a farmer.
Guess what? Your food is gonna be costing more, very soon. It’s gonna be costing a LOT more. 🙂
The Cybertruck is a DoW truck. Test your Cybertruck in Feb when the temp is (-) 20F. Canada Sale tax: 17,700/133,250 = 13.3% plus other taxes plus payroll taxes, plus… No wonder why Canadian healthcare is for free, if u don’t need MRI or CT. IIan will move to the center. He will reshape it, put some lipstick, simplify it, make it cheaper and sexier. He doesn’t change his models every 5 min like BYD. The 2025 demo must be sold, bc we are already in 2026 model year.
I think it’s time you mambo dogface to the banana patch.
Peopel would buy a competively price electric pickup if it was actually competitive in the functionality of a pickup. None of them are/were. Let me know when you see a cybertruck or Lightning with a plow on the front 🤣
Sure, fine point, but…
Good lord, how many pickup owners in the US have/put a plow on front?
The level of economic analysis here is atrociously low for commenters on an economics blog
“The traditional F-150 offers proven reliability with gas engines (up to 14,000 lbs towing) starting at $33,000, while the all-electric F-150 Lightning delivers instant torque, zero emissions, and up to 9.6kW of exportable power starting at $55,000.”
See an economic issue there?
No, I don’t see an “economic” issue. I see the data you’re ignoring.
You are looking at this anecdotally. I’m looking at the statistical data average: https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-use-them
You assume everyone buying an electric truck will haul tons of cargo all the time and want the most cheap base model available, which you assume the electric version won’t do well.
I’m looking at how paying truck customers actually utilize their trucks (at very high prices), and the electric version would do that much better than the ICE version.
Both of us can think these truck owners are dumb or financially illiterate, but regardless these are real customers making market buying decisions.
EV’s remain a no go for me until the Solid State battery becomes ubiquitous. Europe, China and the rest of the world will adopt them first. Our grid will support them after we build it out for AI and most of the AI companies fail.
Rest assured that chip technology and computing architecture will advance and strand almost everything (AI) we have today.
We live in interesting times!
PS. I have only one friend with a Ford Lightening, and he loves the thing as his commuter and rock hounding vehicle in the desert country of Utah. He schedules his trips constantly managing range. I take my GMC Sierra Denali wherever I want whenever I want. Zero range anxiety or angst. Electric trucks are not ready for prime time…
Again, just make a hybrid like the Prius and it will sell. No common sense.
“Zoomers would love a $15,000 middle of the road BYD but Trump says no.”
More than just Zoomers. Mid-level cars sold at this price point would put a lot of competing car manufacturers out of business.
No doubt. Big car and big oil will never give lowly American serfs the liberty to buy low-cost electric cars. On the up side, I’m seeing far fewer trucks on the road as a percentage of all autos. Fewer serfs are will to get ripped off for $70k. But I’ll miss watching the big truck guy try to get in and out of his parking spot at Walmart! Then try to waddle that 300 lb frame between cars. Always good for a laugh.
😉
We love our Lightning.
It’s our daily driver.
My friend loves his and is like an evangelist in his enthusiasm. The other day another farmer asked me what I thought and I connected them via speakerphone. It was like turning on a firehose of information. He particularly enjoys filling the frunk (front trunk) where the engine used to live with beer and ice for country field parties.
There is a car or truck for everybody in the USA!
We are wealthy beyond most of the worlds imagination! Appreciation for what we have is sometimes lacking.
>
What I have is valueless unless it’s better than what everyone else has.
Remember that EVs only exist due to (ill advised) government mandates. Turns out the dogs don’t like the food.
Cars only exist because governments provide paved roads.
You never met The Mechanical Ape
Sorry, but our government does not “provide” paved roads. Roads are
built with money collected via the Motor Fuel taxes paid
by the drivers of cars and trucks. That is except for the $181 Billion that the government syphoned out of the “Highway Construction Trust Fund” and got spent buying votes. The $181 Billion now resides in the National Debt accounts.
Sorry, but you’re wrong. A large percentage of paved road construction and maintenance is paid for by general taxpayers. So drivers (which primarily are ICE vehicle owners) are heavily subsidized by others (including people who own no vehicle at all)
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-road-taxes-funding/
“Sales of Tesla’s angular, stainless steel Cybertruck pickup tanked this year.”
It has truly astounded EVERYONE I know how such an ugly piece of crap could sell at all! I cannot believe anyone would want!
It’s a douchemobile for those that are proudly douches.
I thought it looked ok on the screen. Once I saw it in person, I didn’t like it. To each their own.
Me too, had one ordered and cancelled.
Just looking at the Stats, Ford sold more Edsels on a monthly basis than they are F-150 Lightnings and the population was much smaller. —- Just sayin’
Next up: the electric Edsel!
A dedicated vehicle that only runs on an alternative fuel and not gasoline was an engineering mistake from the get-go. I have a 2013 Chevy Volt, with both a battery and a gas engine (that creates more electricity.) 150k miles so far. At this stage of the game, having a vehicle that runs solely on electricity is foolish. Charging a vehicle takes hours in most cases. There has to be a gas engine on an alternative fuel vehicle for now. Advertisers were building the alt fuel cars, not the engineers.
I drive a Bolt, fully electric, and it’s fantastic. I plug it into my level 2 home charger every 5th day or so when I arrive home. The next morning I have a “full tank.” Takes far less time than dealing with gas stations- maybe 30 seconds to plug it in. I have never once needed to, but in a pinch I can charge it in 30 minutes at a level three charger.
I don’t miss dealing with gasoline, at all. Don’t miss the mess, the smell, the engine noise & vibration, the cost, the maintenance… It’s a remarkable improvement over the ICE experience.
That is a dedicated EV, and like I said above, very few are gonna buy a car they cant cross the country with in a pinch (in their minds).
Most households have 2 vehicles (or more). So having 1 pure EV makes tons of sense for daily commuting. EV’s should be able to make at least 1/3 of sales over time (decade or two).
Then make it as a frickin’ hybrid!!! How come people can’t think what the rest of us want?!!! Morons!
Because you can’t seem to realize (with your multiple posts here) that you don’t represent the market at large.
If you want to pay more for a hybrid (that incorporates both ICE and EV tech that has to be maintained more with $ over time) just so you can feel ‘safer’ about fill-ups and get twice the MPG of a basic ICE sedan, that’s up to you.
But I’d argue you don’t seem to understand basic financial literacy of the upfront vs. continuing costs of vehicle ownership
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds. Why add complexity? An electric car is vastly simpler and cheaper to maintain than an ICE.
That’s a really stupid reason to not buy one, so I hope you’re eventually proven wrong about most people feeling that way. The average American drives about 37 miles per day.
An alternative fuel that can be acquired anywhere there are light bulbs.
Few times while overseas I’ve driven cheap Chinese cars – never again. All of them were junk vehicles with little to no safety at all and very unreliable. There is no way they can make good $15k car for the American market unless it is heavily subsidized which is the last thing we need – China going after another industry and trashing it.
People said the same thing about early Japanese and Korean vehicles. And now they dominate sales in the US because of their high quality.
While earlier Chinese vehicles were suspect, Chinese vehicles are getting dramatically better every year. Which is why they will soon dominate over the Japanese and Korean offerings.
Hybrid is where many people have found a compromise to going fully electric.
For example the Ford Maverick hybrid pickup sold over 20,000 trucks in just 4 months of 2025. Hybrid SUV vehicles are extremely popular now also. The public is buying a partially electric vehicle as a compromise to jumping to full electric.. Fully electric has to prove itself over time to win over more of the large number of hybrid buyers. Hybrid is at least less polluting than totally gas vehicles.
Welllllll, OUR FORD Hybrid ate it. Once that battery died after 8 years, we got $50 for it and moved over to a Subaru std Unleaded Forester Ltd.
Hybrids are technically complex, costly, gas-guzzling and overweigth compromises. They may have their place if your main driving is short range and you can recharge from your own PV (if and when there is sunshine and/or your battery storage is very large). Depreciation is massive; even if batteries last 8 or 10 years whoever owns the vehicle then is in for 10.000$+ repair bill. Modern range extender vehicles (BYD Seal) are perhaps better, perhaps not.
Do you have to repair (replace) the battery on a hybrid?
If it goes, can’t you just continue to drive it as a pure ICE vehicle?
In the case of the hybrid Lexus we own, the answer is no. Spelled out in the owner’s manual. It is 15 years old. Don’t know about the latest models.
Some you can and some you can’t. The ones that you can drive do not advise it as it may wear out other systems faster.
Please. Stop this nonsense. The fricking Prius has been around for how long? You are EV-only brainwashed.
Ford Maverick battery has a 8 year or 100,000 mile warranty. Maverick has regenerative charging like the Toyota Prius has also. Truck does use a plug for it’s charging.
Charging is basically done by driving the vehicle. Many hybrid vehicles do not need to be plugged in. Seem that some comments assume all hybrids need to be plugged in.
Many do not realize the difference between a hybrid and a plug-in hybrid.
Both require the battery pack to work in order to run the car. Though most battery packs should be good for 10-20 years. They lose about 2-3% of their capacity each year. But even after 20 years they should still have enough capacity to work with the electric motors and gas engine in order to run the vehicle.
PapaDave, anyone: Where the hell is EV Jeff? He has been in hiding so long I nearly forgot about him.
No idea. It would be nice to hear from him again. He was a fan of EVs and I was arguing in favor of plug-in hybrids.
EVs and PHEVs are selling well outside of North America thanks to Chinese dominance in this area. Interesting that Chinese central planning has managed to outsmart the US by skating to where the puck is going (economy wise). Meanwhile we are not even in this game; we are watching from the bench.
The world economy is rapidly electrifying, and China is leading the way. Wind, solar, batteries, EVs, high speed electric trains, transmission lines, semiconductors, magnets, rare earths, etc. While Trump tries his best to fight against electrification. It’s moronic.
How are we going to produce the 50+ GW of new electricity generation that we need each year going forward?
This year we will add 0GW from nuclear; 5GW from natural gas; -8GW from coal (yes, negative 8), and 0 hydro.
Which leaves solar and wind. Which Trump is trying to stop.
Anyone have an answer?
I think several people can make a good argument that there will never be a market for (many) electric trucks. When we get to that peak oil shutdown of the energy economy, there will simply be fewer goods that need to be hauled around any distance.
One word: Chevy Volt….granted it was expensive back then…. but its a reliable spartan vehicle with ice engine and limited range but full electric
I heard on the news it was from the price of aluminum. Thought that sounded weird. I would think a hybrid would be the way to go. To have electricity on the job site.
My observation is most of these big trucks are commuter vehicles. I see tons of them in the burbs near by. Parking lot princesses i think the truck guys call it.
That was one of many reasons. A fire at Ford’s key aluminum supplier, Novelis, resulted in shortages and production slowdowns. That, along with high aluminum tariffs, increased aluminum costs quite a bit for Ford.