Home Prices Have Peaked, It’s the Data That Lags

Case-Shiller home prices via St. Louis Fed, chart by Mish

Home Prices Disconnect From Rent and OER

Home Price Disconnect Notes

  • National is the Case-Shiller national home price index.
  • 10-City represents the weighted average of the cities in the first chart.
  • CPI is the Consumer Price Index
  • OER stands for Owner’s Equivalent Rent. It is the single largest component in the CPI with a current weight of 24.151% of the total CPI.
  • Rent of Primary Residence is a CPI component with a weight of 7.374% of the CPI.

OER is the mythical price the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) says one would pay to rent one’s own house from oneself, unfurnished, without utilities.

CS National, Top 10 Metro Percent Change From Year Ago

Percent Change From Year Ago Notes (April 2022)

  • CPI: 8.26%
  • OER: 4.79%
  • Rent: 4.46%
  • Case-Shiller 10-City: 19.66%
  • Case-Shiller National: 20.39%

CPI Understated?

Yes, by a lot.

Home prices are not directly in the CPI, only OER and and Rent.

And rent prices are up much more than the BLS claims because rent price lag as well.

Three Measures of Inflation

Adjusted CPI Discussion

My Case-Shiller adjusted CPI is calculated by substituting the percentage change in the Case-Shiller national index for OER in the CPI.

The result is an adjusted annual CPI rise of 11.18%. 

There is a lot of controversy over this procedure. The BLS and many economists will point out that houses are not a “consumer” expense but a “capital” expense.

That’s technically accurate except historically home prices used to be in the CPI so historical comparisons are a bit distorted.

The problem with being “technically” accurate is that it is a huge mistake by the Fed to ignore asset bubbles. Inflation matters, not just alleged CPI inflation.

This historical distortion never mattered much in practice because the second chart shows OER, the CPI, rent, and home prices all rose in sync.

Real Interest Rates

Real Interest Rates Discussion

One can calculate “real” (inflation-adjusted) interest rates by subtracting the rate the Fed charges from CPI measures.

Mortgage rates had been around 2% in January but have since soared so one could formulate another version of “real” based on mortgages.

No matter how you slice it, rates are amazingly low. With home prices up over 20% but the Fed Funds Rate at 0.33% in April, it’s no wonder we have another housing bubble and bubbles in equities.

The Fed wanted higher inflation and finally got it in spades.

Why the Inflation Surge?

  1. Three rounds of fiscal stimulus, two by Trump but a massive one by Biden
  2. Eviction moratoriums enabled spending demand elsewhere
  3. Supply chain disruptions
  4. Massive change in consumer preferences from services to goods
  5. QE finally mattered

The War is barely reflected in these charts as it began in February of 2022.

Poor Measure of Inflation

The big problem the Fed failed to see is that the CPI is an extremely poor measure of inflation.

Inflation matters, not just alleged consumer inflation.

The Fed missed a huge jump in inflation because it does not know what to look at.

Case-Shiller Lag and the Rear View Mirror

Case-Shiller home price data is a three-month average of prior closed sales. And those sales reflect deals made a month or two earlier.

Home Prices Have Peaked

Big discounts are happening in many markets already. And existing home sales data off which Case-Shiller is based has been very weak. 

For discussion please see Existing Home Sales Skid Another 3.4 Percent in May, Down Fourth Month

Ignore the fact that median sales price levels are still rising. The proper comparison is repeat sales of the same home, which Case-Shiller does.

However, due to the lagging nature of the data, it may still be a few months before the index peaks. 

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

Thanks for Tuning In!

Please Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

If you have subscribed and do not get email alerts, please check your spam folder.

Mish 

Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

Comments to this post are now closed.

73 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Home prices have not peaked across the entire US. Places like Phoenix, Miami, Tampa, Nashville and Austin could take until late this year to peak, possibly even into 2023 before prices turn south. My house in Woodstock GA has increased 29% in the last 12 months & 98% in value in four years per Zillow. I would bet a $100 that Zillow doesn’t lower my home’s Z-estimate until November at the earliest, and they have the data. Everyone in the real estate industry is going to obfuscate the narrative for as long as possible that prices are NOT falling.
tj900
tj900
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
East valley PHX has peaked. Check out the price cuts on your favorite app. Many new houses/rentals coming on line in the suburbs (Gilbert and Queen Creek). Z estimates lag true value. Good luck preserving equity on your home by staying in it. I predict it will vaporize as fast as it ran up….
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
It’s a big country. Few things happen simulaneously, and thank God for that.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Maybe, to keep insanity going, western CBs, instead of charging historically low interest rates on mortgage loans should reward mortgages with a 5 or 10% interest rate…..Never say never with a financial system having reached the end of its fn wits….
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
I have been curious about how mortgages work in Europe. I am very familiar with the U.S. mechanism, which is pretty simple: 10-year Treasury note + 2-3% spread = 30-year fixed. Standard downpayment is 20%, but can be lower or even zero for some federally backed loans — veterans, Federal Housing Authority being the biggies. If you can’t get one of those, you can put 10% down and take out private mortgage insurance to guarantee against default. It’s how I bought my first house; a lot of people do it that way.
Credit “scores” affect interest rates. The better the score, the more likely the borrower will get a better rate. Typically, the lender won’t write the contract if the monthly payment (interest, principal, property taxes, insurance) is much above 35% of gross income. These standards collapsed in the ’00s and exacerbated the residential real estate-led Panic of 2008. They were reinstituted afterwards, so at least we’re not seeing fraud-driven defaults at anything close to what was seen 15 years ago.
Why the 10-year Treasury as the underlying basis? The answer: The average maturity of semi-annual interest payments + return of principal gives a duration (finance term) of 7 years. That happens to be the average holding period for a residence.
Prior to the 1970s, most housing loans were held by the lender that wrote the contract. Then the mortgages were “packaged” and sold to investors as bonds backed by the payment streams. Today, virtually all loans are securitized. Banks and mortgage companies only originate the loans. All under the regulation of a couple federal agencies that implictly guaranteed the streams. It worked fine until standards collapsed, and after ’08 the implicit guarantees became explicit, in the form of the Federal Reserve buying busted mortgaged-backed securities, the alternative being a complete collapse of all residential lending.
How do mortgages work in Europe? I’ve read only a little about it.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
You seem to be very familiar with the matter… I am afraid I got to disappoint you though, 1993 was the last time I took out a mortgage (for fiscal purposes rather), I paid a ‘healthy’ 8% till I got fed up 4 years later, sold the property and paid it all back ….I wouldn t know these days which technicalities define the rates, I know people paying a ridiculous 1% while others pay 2,5%. Must be creditworthiness related…
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
I asked because from what I have read (not enough), mortgages work very differently in Europe. I’ve heard that they’re commonly interest-only with a 40-year term.
LostNOregon
LostNOregon
3 years ago
So how would the BLS even calculate the OER? Do they just make it up? It seems like they could go to various real estate websites to look up rental costs in various cities.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  LostNOregon
I have a pretty deep background in federal economic stats, although there are so many of them that it’s impossible to claim universal knowledge. I come closest with the BLS data as a consequence of a couple of jobs that required me to dive into the deep end. That said, the OER data was not part of my “beat,” so I cannot analyze it. What I can say is this: BLS has always been, in my view, non-partisan and careful.

This doesn’t mean they’re necessarily correct. In fact, in some areas it’s impossible to be “correct” because there are legitimate conceptual issues. Unemployment is a good example. Another one is over in Federal Reserve-land. I believe they’re the keeper of the productivity data. Big conceptual issues there: How to measure productivity in services. Inflation too. In goods, the price changes are adjusted for quality improvements. Very hard to do that in services.

Still, given all of that, I don’t think anyone has been putting their finger on the scale for political motives. Mish is shooting holes in the housing stats, and I think he’s been making an intriguing case. It helps that I generally have a high degree of respect for his ability, his skill in boiling it down, and in picking the right numbers to look at. But when he makes these adjustments to the current data, he needs to adjust backwards, because one of the most important functions of these stats is comparability over time.

If inflation is really 11%, fine. Just make perhaps more effort to be comparable to earlier periods. Also: Recognize that maybe the 1970s housing price formula was flawed. In any case, it’s the trend that matters most, and the trend needs to be presented on a comparable basis. Back to productivity and inflation. There have been structural economic changes over the decades, and the move to a predominantly services economy presents serious, legitimate and necessary comparability issues.

Bottom line: Even when the stats are wrong, no one’s making them up. It’s harder than it looks.

LostNOregon
LostNOregon
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Thanks! Just curious about how they come up with the numbers.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  LostNOregon
I wish I could be specific about OER. I think Mish has done a pretty deep dive. I do know that BLS is very slow to change methodology, and I’m 90% certain that they purposely don’t change (or at least try not to) until there’s been analysis during two different party controls of administrations.
On the glitch front, I recall a seasonal adjustment problem in unemployment in 2011 and 2012 that mattered to nerds like me who deployed an election prediction formula that had worked all the way back to WW2 with only one exception: If the U-3 headline unemployment rate rose in the second quarter of a presidential election year, the incumbent party would lose the White House. If it fell, the incumbent party would win. If it was flat, the incumbent party would lose by a whisker.
Why might this work? The answer is that the unemployment rate is a proxy for economic conditions on Main Street. But changes act with a lag, so anything after the second quarter wouldn’t be an election factor. The one exception was in 1956, when there was an uptick in Q2 but Eisenhower easily beat Stevenson anyhow. I looked deeper, and saw why. Usually, unemployment changes along a trend. When it’s rising, it keeps rising. When falling, it keeps falling. But in 1956, it bounced within a narrow and quite low range. There was no direction to it, and economic conditions were great.
In 2011 and 2012, the seasonal adjustment (they report adjusted and unadjusted numbers, but the rule of thumb was based on adjusted) process had a slight glitch. It understated UE in the fall of ’11, leading the pundits to declare Obama a shoo-in. It overstated UE in the spring of ’12 (I think it was reported as flat in 2Q), leading me to think Obama would lose by a whisker. That formula wasn’t mine, but was known by the incorrigible nerds, and Romney started going on about the weak economy. In reality, 2Q was stronger than it looked, and Obama won. Not by a lot, but decisively.
It’s been 10 years, so I don’t recall what threw off the adjustment. Back then, the New York Times still had a business section worth reading, and there was an article about the adjustment problem — which was not major, but was still inaccurate.
In 2008, 2Q unemployment rose by 0.5%, a very big jump in such a short time. This allowed the Dems to take a flyer on a black nominee. A week after the June number was released, I told all my email correspondents to expect a big Obama win. I came within 5 or 6 electoral votes with my prediction, based entirely on the UE change. In ’16, UE dropped in 2Q. I predicted that Hillary would win, which she did in the popular vote but not in the electoral college on account of her arrogant decision not to campaign in Michigan or Wisconsin. I predicted Hillary by 2%, which is exactly what happened, and was surprised at the composition.
I didn’t bother to look at that in ’20, because it seemed obvious to me that the Democrats would stuff the ballot boxes. I’m not sure I’ll look at it in ’24 either. I have only limited confidence in the U.S. election machinery after what happened in ’20. By the way, I cast write-in votes for president in ’16 and ’20, so my opinion doesn’t reflect my political views.
dtj
dtj
3 years ago
Just ask any real estate agent and they’ll tell you “now’s a good time to buy”.
ppeck44
ppeck44
3 years ago
In the “Why the inflation surge?” section you really need to more balanced. For sure, tied for #1 with stimulus (and by the way – Trump’s first round prevented a collapse so pass over that one. Pelosi/Shumer initiated #2 and it was small). Biden/Dems did a totally unneeded #3 with Powell printing like a madman) was the war on fossil fuel. The Green New Deal.
Much higher oil prices was a huge inflation trigger. It increase the cost of everything. it’s not just the “Energy” category that impacts CPI. Check out Doomberg on substack.
Mark my words – if Biden would ever announce that he’s opening the XL Pipeline and re-signing fossil fuel leases, oil drops – inflation expectations drop – consumer sentiment improves….
Maybe he’s waiting to get closer to midterms?
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  ppeck44
I think it’s past the point of no return. Even if Biden did a 180 on oil and gas, producers would have to worry about future democratic administrations trying to crush them. So no long term investments will likely ever happen again.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Yeah ….. POTUS attending a windmill meeting last week … says it all.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago

The Market Composite Index, a measure of mortgage loan application volume, increased 0.7 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis from one week earlier. On an unadjusted basis, the Index decreased 20 percent compared with the previous week. The Refinance Index increased 2 percent from the previous week and was 80 percent lower than the same week one year ago. The seasonally adjusted Purchase Index increased 0.1 percent from one week earlier. The unadjusted Purchase Index decreased 21 percent compared with the previous week and was 24 percent lower than the same week one year ago.

“Mortgage rates continue to experience large swings. After increasing 65 basis points during the past three weeks, the 30-year fixed rate declined 14 basis points last week to 5.84 percent. Rates are still significantly higher than they were a year ago, when the 30-year fixed rate was at 3.2 percent,” said Joel Kan, MBA’s Associate Vice President of Economic and Industry Forecasting. “The decline in mortgage rates led to a slight increase in refinancing, driven by an uptick in conventional loans. However, refinances are still 80 percent lower than a year ago and over 60 percent below the historical average.”

Added Kan, “Overall purchase activity has weakened in recent months due to the quick jump in mortgage rates, high home prices, and growing economic uncertainty. Purchase applications were essentially flat last week but were supported by a 6 percent increase in government loan applications. The average purchase loan amount declined to $413,500, which highlights an ongoing downward trend seen since it hit a record $460,000 in March 2022.”

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
#2 – you need to add loan forbearance.
Spring / Summer of 2020 TPTB were broadcasting from every roof top to call your lender (auto / credit card / etc) for forbearance if needed.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Define TPTB please.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
The Powers That Be
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reader comment just came in by Email:

Business colleague of mine has been looking for a vacation home in FL for about 6-8 months.

The Real Estate Agent just started calling him 3-4 times a week with price drops, discounts, etc… He’s waiting it out.

Here’s a Tweet on Seattle
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
I sold my house in Seattle in 2017 for $1.15 million. Zillow says $1.9 million now.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
AAPL and MSFT by themselves lift 500 S&P500 stocks. // Two small houses bought in Palo Alto, or Palos Verdes CA, in the 80’s / 90’s. or in the 60’s sold in Apr/May 2022, distort the whole market, no matter how u try adjust.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
You need to review the difference between mean and median. That’s the adjustment. It’s hardly a new concept, and it works.
davebarnes2
davebarnes2
3 years ago
Anecdotal evidence from our Denver neighborhood of 10K people.
DoM has been under a week for the last year.
Case-Shiller says prices up 23%.
But, as of today, we have 5 houses with listing prices over $1M that are 3+ weeks DoM.
This is a huge change and has happened in the last month.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  davebarnes2
DoM = Days on Market? Just checking.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Case Shiller Price/ Rent = x5 since Mar 2020, x2.6 since 2010. Price/ Income is much worse. // Case Shiller pairs are positively biased, in nominal terms, not in real terms. A house bought in 1995, after S&L plunge, sold for $1,5M last month, with few adjustment for whatever…
Secret drawer lists for privileged/ prodigy buyers surfaced in the markets, with a large discounts, pressing the housing pyramid from the top.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Electronic and software engineers are finally switching from rentals and buying $2M – $4M homes at market peak to impress their
team and kids.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago

Same old story. Looking at the trees. Missing the forest.

Food and energy prices are the biggest reason for the inflation we have today. Fiscal stimulus has very little effect on those two items.
Inflation is already peaking and will be heading down over the next year. You can see it in house prices, and most commodities, other than food and energy, which are affected by supply problems.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Your second paragraph contradicts your third.
If food and energy caused inflation then how can it be peaking and about to lower if both food and energy remain in short supply and continue to cost more.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Not at all.
Food and energy are the biggest contributor to inflation. And they will continue to be. But as the price for almost everything else begins to come down, the overall inflation rate will come down.
What is so hard to understand about that?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
The problem is energy is connected to literally everything else. Whether it’s raw materials, transportation or manufacturing etc, it all requires energy. So the goods, whatever they may be are going to continue to cost more simply because the raw material cost and manufacturing cost and transportation cost is going to rise because of the energy component.
So even if demand goes down for products, what does get sold will still cost a lot because of the energy component costing a lot.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Yes. But how much of an impact? Take a look at the chart that tracks the price of food vs fuel later on in this article.
From 1980 to today, energy has gone up a lot while wheat and corn keep going down in price.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Food and energy contribute nothing to inflation. Price increases in those areas (or any other areas) are not inflationary. What’s inflationary is monetary expansion in excess of economic growth. In the absence of excess monetary growth, any increases in energy and food prices would be offset by deflation elsewhere.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb

Right. Inflation has nothing to do with prices.

By the way. How is inflation measured?
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. We measure it in price changes, but the changes don’t cause inflation.

By analogy: If you get a medical problem and it gets worse, the worsening will go far to tell you how serious the problem is. But the progression says nothing about the cause. It could help shed light on the type of malady, whose expected progression will likely have been studied. But the fact that your bladder cancer spread to your lungs in 6 months is not what gave you cancer.

PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
So the price of oil is going up and the price of lumber is going down right now. Explain that with your monetary phenomenon.
You cannot exclude supply and demand when discussing prices.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Prices will always fluctuate for various reasons. No way do I ever exclude supply and demand.

If the Fed’s not creating too much money, price increases in one or more sectors will be counterbalanced by declines elsewhere. This explains oil v lumber right now. People are paying double or triple for motor fuel, heating oil, and propane. They’re feeling the squeeze. Housing is seeing it, and is contracting. Lumber prices are declining.

If the Fed really follows through on its stated intentions with regard to rates and balance sheet, you’ll see a lot more of this. If it gets bad enough, you’ll see business failures as it becomes impossible to sell below cost for very long. Businesses will do it for a while, but not forever. That’s why recessions entail layoffs.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Bridge Over the River Kwai
Food & Energy will be the caboose.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Mish, thank you again for the truth. The Case Shiller Adjusted CPI.
Inflation at 11.18% in April 2022.
I ran into some huge inflation recently, a bag of Cheetos was $4.99 and it wasn’t even the family size! I didn’t buy as a result.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
My local grocery store has held the price of a half-pound of sliced mushrooms to $2.99. But have a look at the milk, the cookies, and the cheese.
PreCambrian
PreCambrian
3 years ago

Three rounds of fiscal stimulus, two by Biden and one by Trump

I think that it was two rounds of stimulus by Trump and one round by Biden.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
Trump signed off on the 2nd one and Biden distributed it (he could have countermanded it like he did with the border).
So it’s more like one by Trump, one by Biden and one joint one.
WTFUSA
WTFUSA
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
“Trump signed off on the 2nd one and Biden distributed it (he could have countermanded it like he did with the border)”
We received the second stimulus check on 1/4/2021 when Trump was still president, albeit a lame duck. Biden could not have countermanded it as he had not yet been sworn into office. PreCambrian was correct.
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
Yes, two by Trump
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
It doesn’t matter who was president when the payments were approved or went out. They both were anxious to give away money.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
If the ‘real CPI interest rate’ approaches a whopping -8%, what does that make the ‘neutral’ rate?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
To continue… Is the concept of a neutral rate even relevant?
As the short-term interest rate that should prevail when the economy is at
full employment and stable inflation, the neutral rate is the hypothetical equilibrium
rate of interest that is neither expansionary nor contractionary. Note that,
1) The neutral rate has been in more-or-less steady decline since the 1960s, taking about 40 years for the neutral rate to decline from about 4.2% to about 3%; and 20 years to decline from 3% to about 1%; which should make one wonder about factors underlying the ‘hypothetical equilibrium’.
2) The neutral rate is now at a record low level, (and headed to zero?), allegedly because
of excess of global savings relative to the demand for investment funds.
The implication is the world is awash in excess money, BUT where does it come from. Economies of scale–the result of too big to fail banks? Perhaps a more productive use of money in investments? People are saving proportionately more? The end result of governments running deficits–and the Fed adding zeroes to its balance sheet?
Whatever the cause, the Fed now concentrates on a hypothetical equilibrium, thereby escaping the very real results of its incompetence. Shell game?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Since inflation changes rapidly now the neutral rate would have to change rapidly also so neutral rate in this environment has no meaning if it ever did.
klausmkl
klausmkl
3 years ago
The Digestion is underway. I live in Idaho and we needed this. My concern is for younger the generation. The average price in Eagle, Idaho is 1 million , this is ridiculous. We are talking Idaho, not Malibu. It’s Insanity
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
Idaho is like hot stock with a small float. Just a few buyers cause the price to ramp up.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
penny stock affect from rich folks from CA bidding up small towns…….happens every bubble all over the world. nothing special about ID. nice place though, for sure. remember like yesterday pals on the street selling off their getaway joints on kiawah island back in panic of LTCM and many more times. it’s animal spirits, greed and fear. we all do it.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
It’s everywhere, not just Eagle, Idaho.
My parents live in a small town (<50K population) in Canada more than 90 miles from Toronto and homes there routinely are going for over 1 million Canadian despite there being next to no local jobs that would support buying such homes.
There is so much money sloshing around in the system from the last 10 years or so (turbo charged since the pandemic started) that it’s spilled from the large cities to everywhere as people in those large cities have realized they can sell their small dilapidated home for a million or two and move someplace rural and retire like a king in a McMansion.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Since there is so much excess liquidity in the system then maybe someone will have the idea to tax it.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
How would that help? The tax money just gets redistributed back into the system. Even if it goes to poor people (and not Hunter Bidens hooker habit or some other crooked scheme) they instantly spend it and the ownership class scoops it all back up again.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I would prefer it goes to hookers than to people like Hunter. I am not advocating taxing it but it is a sign of too much money chasing too few goods. Either you have to make more goods or arrange to lessen the amount of money or a combination thereof. If the money comes from the untaxed then maybe it should be taxed because everyone else is.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
That’s exactly what we did five years ago. Traded an old house on a 1/6-acre lot in the city for 20 acres and a brand newly built place in the country, with all the trimmings.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
I live Boise Idaho and my house is worth $500,000. A perfect starter home at 1500 square feet.
When a starter home in Boise Idaho is worth $500,000, you know there is a huge problem and disconnect.
My daughter and husband make $75,000 between them a year and rent in Boise. They can not afford a house at that income level.
Again, we are talking Idaho here.
StickToEconomics
StickToEconomics
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
Look into foreign buyers.
All the US money pushed overseas has to come home eventually . . . .
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
they will be able to afford it in another 2 to 5 years. places like boise are coming down faster than malibu and manhattan……….
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
Eagle, Id is one of the top destinations for families who believe in law and order. People are moving there because the average person has good values and obeys the Ten Commandments. I completely understand why property value there is worth so much.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
I understand that household firearm ownership is over 60% in Idaho. Sounds like a safe place to live with fewer belligerent people. Really nice scenery too.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Vermont a blue state: 50% gun ownership
Florida a red state: 35% gun ownership
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Gun ownership is higher in rural areas. Vermont is a very rural state. In my rural county in WA State, among adult men not legally barred from firearms ownership, the majority not only own guns but hold a concealed carry permit.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I thought it was to keep out New Yorkers. My daughter lives there. Nice place but you gotta love winters.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
All depends on where you look there. Not talking about the weather, but the state in general. Easy to look at all them Volvos and gold lettering on the B&Bs and think Vermont is rich. They hide the trailers and the Swamp Yankees pretty well, because they’re bad for business.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
That is true of everywhere in the world.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
obeying the ten commandments. bwaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh. thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife is broken by every red blooded male from ID to Mecca………..thanks for the LOL
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
I live in suburban DC. We don’t get huge booms or huge busts. Comes with the federal gov’t being by far the biggest employer. Great place to live if you want an easy decent paying safe job. I would guess our prices have only gone up maybe 20% over the last couple of years. So an average home went from like $500k->$600k. New town houses near me are going for close to a million. Very nice with rooftop terraces. Walkable to metro. But, you can buy an older much bigger house on an acre for about the same price. You can find a fixer upper townhouse for under $500k.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“easy decent paying safe job’. DC to a T. Not a place to start a start-up or build a dream.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Unless your dream is to be a gov’t contractor. If you’re a blind American Indian owner, you’re guaranteed to clean up.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I lived in north Arlington in the 1980s, a few houses from I-66 and not far from the Glebe Rd exit, if memory serves me right. Rented a real dump for $1,100. Three bedrooms, a ratty sort of yard, a fireplace, a basement, a badly warped kitchen floor, and falling plaster. But the price was right, and it was maybe 10 minutes from the Ballston metro stop. I was enthusiastic about the D.C. area for a few years, but starting in about year 4, I couldn’t wait to get out.
jiminy
jiminy
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I did time in DC. If you like traffic, arrogant people and high taxes, that’s your place. Its really a horror, there is more to life than status and money, your soul dies in DC.

Stay Informed

Subscribe to MishTalk

You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.