Hoot of the Day: The UAW Demands a “Just Transition” to Electric Vehicles

May 15, 2023

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8:25 pm

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Massive subsidies and other goodies in the Inflation Reduction Act are not enough to satisfy the United Auto Workers union.

The UAW now seeks a “Just Transition” to EVs. Their new concern is a “race to the bottom” started by Elon Musk.

Question of the Day

How can car manufacturers make money as Tesla cuts prices and the White House and unions demand higher output and wages?

Please consider Elon Musk Squeezes His Electric-Vehicle Competitors

The Inflation Reduction Act includes truckloads of subsidies for electric vehicles, including tax credits for battery makers and consumers. But despite these handouts, traditional automakers still don’t expect to turn a profit on the cars for several years. Ford recently forecast its electric-vehicle division would lose $3 billion this year and committed to getting in the black in 2026.

In the first three months of this year, Ford’s electric vehicles posted a negative 102% operating margin—that is, its losses on electric-vehicles exceeded its sales. Yikes. Ford blamed a battery problem in its much-hyped F-150 Lightning pickup for interrupting production. Even if it weren’t for that, Ford still would have posted a huge loss.

Automakers and the UAW are preparing to begin collective-bargaining over a new national labor agreement this summer. UAW leaders have made clear their goal is to increase wages and benefits at new electric-vehicle battery plants, where workers currently earn about half as much as their counterparts at other factories.

Stellantis recently announced it would offer buyouts to 31,000 hourly employees. Ford last year announced it was laying off 3,000 white-collar and contract employees to finance its electric-vehicle expansion. Automakers will almost certainly have to issue more pink slips, if only because manufacturing electric vehicles requires significantly less labor than gasoline-powered cars.

“The federal government is pouring billions into the electric vehicle transition, with no strings attached and no commitment to workers,” UAW President Shawn Fain wrote to his members on May 2. “The EV transition is at serious risk of becoming a race to the bottom.”

Mr. Fain is threatening to withhold the union’s endorsement of Mr. Biden unless his administration backs a “just transition” to electric vehicles. Translation: The union wants the White House to wield subsidies and regulation as a cudgel to drive its labor agenda. But all this will do is render automakers less competitive in a race in which they’re starting laps behind Tesla.

The risk isn’t merely that U.S. automakers can’t catch up; it’s that they could crash right out of the gate.

Understanding Tesla’s Lead and the UAW’s Predicament

Tesla is in front partially because it was first. But it’s also in a great position now because of cheap money by the Fed, subsidies on which only it gained, and energy tax credits.

The cheap money, subsidies, and tax credits should not have happened.

Thank the Fed for the cheap money. Thank Biden for the subsidies, regulations, energy credits and the Inflation Reduction Act.

In the push to reduce carbon emissions, Biden handed out tax credits that Tesla could sell at a huge profit to other automakers who could not meet the regulatory requirements that Biden imposed.

Three Things to Expect

The UAW will seek handouts that it gets, not Tesla.
Look for Biden to accuse Tesla of dumping cars because it now makes a profit and the big automakers can’t.
Look for Biden to force unionization on Tesla.

This is all in the name of a “Just Transition”.

What a hoot.

Everything Biden does adds inflation pressures.

Please note The Inflation Reduction Act Price Jumps From $385 Billion to Over $1 Trillion

Expect more of the same when Biden tries to impose a “just transition”.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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DolyG

11 months ago

“The cheap money, subsidies, and tax credits should not have happened.”

I guess it’s a matter of what you believe. If you believe that some upper middle class people ought to have electric cars, then you would want Tesla to get all those subsidies. If you believe that developing EVs is all a pointless exercise anyway, because there’s no way the energy transition is going to be successful the way things have been going, and the upper middle class and richer people, if they still have cars at all and we don’t return to the Middle Ages, will probably be using gasoline, diesel or biodiesel cars, then that’s true.

If you believe that somehow there’s still a chance that most people will have cars in the next decade, you haven’t been paying attention.

omera

11 months ago

I really don’t like when people makes arguments, especially on EVs, without giving the whole picture. Tesla was not profitable until 3 years ago while the company started more than 10 years before that, in 2007. Remember Mr. Musk sleeping at the factory? For 2 years they went back and forth with robots vs. human in production. Original plan was close to 100% robots, but did not work. They have, about 2x more accidents -officially reported ones- at their production lines than any other auto production line. Their workers are not unionized. Any auto company CEO who wants to get in to EV band wagon has to see their #1 cost for an EV is, now and a feasible feature, the battery will fail. Union discussion are a diversion away from EVs. That goes back the US crony capitalism discussions. When time comes to pay to workers (especially in a EV production line, an ICE car worker needs to be retrained for EV), there is no money but CEOs and main street gets their way. A side note for Tesla/Musk, in part of the 2019 to 2020, Tesla made profit not from car sales but selling their carbon emission quota.

goldhoarder

11 months ago

EVs are garbage. End the government subsidies, ridiculous emission standards, and penalties for trucks and lets see what people want. Before the government stuck their noses in it that Jetta was getting over 50 mpg. The government never really talked about how Fter they put its “fix” on it reduced it to 40 mpg. The stupid union should just go anti leftist environmental scam if they were smart.

babelthuap

11 months ago

How can a car company function in the US with the rules constantly changing. It’s impossible IMO without tax dollars from the rule changers. Oh, and the main rule changer drives a gas guzzling classic sports car his Daddy gave him. His son drives a 473 hp Porshe he bought with money from him and his Daddy selling us all out:

link to washingtonexaminer.com

End of the day the average American can’t afford these cars. Never mind them also being impractical for many of us who do put heavy things in our truck beds and drive long distances. Time is money for us. We don’t get bailouts, stimie checks and money from countries for setting up conversations with our Daddy.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to babelthuap

EVs are going to drive the cost of cars way down. Look at what you can get in China now. That’s the future. The best selling EV in the US by far is the tesla model Y. You can get the entry model for around $43k after tax credits. Well below what the average car costs.

babelthuap

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

I’m still waiting on EV advocates to provide the protocol when a CAT 5 hits and not only knocks out power but takes powerlines and home solar panels with it along the coastline spanning a hundred miles or more. After about 3 days society starts breaking down in a city like New Orleans and the surrounding areas. It’s ok to put all of one’s eggs in one basket. Just have to protect the basket. Right now nobody is addressing the basket guarding. I hope someone does soon before we find out the hard way.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to babelthuap

Gas stations need electricity to pump gas.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

Here in Florida they all have generators along with the grocery stores. They can pump gas and take credit card payments just fine but would likely not be able to charge cars (generators aren’t that powerful).

paperboy

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

and I can throw a couple of 5 gallon gas cans in the back of my truck beforehand how much battery would I be able to have and how would I recharge from the road on the way out of town?

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to paperboy

Please don’t mention things like this to KidHorn, he’s sensitive about EVs.

Carl_R

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

If the cost is going to come down, then it doesn’t need subsidies, does it? The only time you need subsidies is when you have some product that can’t be justified economically, such as ethanol. In those cases, you can use subsidies to make sure people buy it anyway.

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

$43k is not the price of a car, it is the proper price for a modest 2 bedroom, 1 bath home in the far suburbs on a 1/4 acre lot.

Everything is screwed up.

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to Lisa_Hooker

Should be?

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to Jojo

Obviously I’m old and turning into a curmudgeon despite my best efforts.

Oh, and get off my lawn.

Carl_R

11 months ago

Back in 1970 the US produced 70% of the car produced in the world. Today it is about 13%. By 2035 I expect that to fall to 7-8%. What the UAW wants, and what it manages to get, are no longer all that important in terms of impact to the overall economy.

link to en.wikipedia.org

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to Carl_R

I expect it to fall below 5%. The big 3 won’t be able to sell anything outside the US. If they’re even around in a few years. Tesla might be the only US car company in a few years and they’ll be making most cars outside the US.

Tony Bennett

11 months ago

“Massive subsidies and other goodies in the Inflation Reduction Act are not enough to satisfy the United Auto Workers union.”

…

Years ago I read an interview of a hedge funder who owned GM bonds in 2009. Obama’s car czar (steve rattner) paid him a visit and told him to accept a write down (to protect UAW pensions)… or he would have the IRS crawl into his every orifice. Nice.

Zardoz

11 months ago

Reply to Tony Bennett

You’d prefer people get screwed out of their pensions?

Carl_R

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

If they negotiate a larger pension than the company can afford, and the company agrees to it, then yes, both should get whatever the agreement naturally results in. The government has no business bailing out either.

Tony Bennett

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

I prefer the Rule of Law.

not two bit gangsterism

KidHorn

11 months ago

The main reason Ford and GM lose a lot on each EV is they sell very few of them. Over time, they’ll lose a lot less. Might even make a profit. A big part of the problem is the dealerships. They jack up the price of EVs so they’re less competitive compared to Tesla. The lightning is typically marked up by $25k. Ford and GM are going to have to ditch their dealership model. It no longer works. Might have to go through bankruptcy first.

Tesla has an enormous advantage. They make better EVs and have a decent margin. Their assembly lines are more efficient and their cars are much simpler. Their software is way ahead. They have real self driving that actually works. It’s not always perfect, but it works over 90% of the time and has millions of users using it every day. At least the basic self driving. Every car can add full self driving at any time as a over the air software upgrade. It’s genius. Right now it costs $15k, but in a few years it might be $5k and a lot of new buyers who don’t have it now, will buy it later.

When the cyber truck comes out, it will be game over for the big 3. I think it’s going to be far superior to every other pickup. They’ll sell them as fast as they can make them like they do with the model Y now. They’ll have a model 2 that will retail for around $20k. It will be much better than anything in the same price range.

Another thing they’re doing is building out a huge charger network. Their network charges faster and costs less than the competition. They’re installing huge batteries at the charging stations that charge overnight when prices are low. Their margins will be far higher than current gas stations. Not only will they dominate the US car market, they’ll also be the biggest EV charging station company.

And if you take a long trip, the app will figure out optimally how to get there and which charging stations to recharge at.

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

“The lightning is typically marked up by $25k.”

If the USA is like Britain, then most EV owners are losing value on these cars quickly. And this is before the batteries begin to wear out, driving range plummets and people discover that a new battery, if available, costs more than the current value of the car.

——–

Electric cars losing their value twice as fast as petrol alternatives

Early adopters have seen huge amounts wiped off the value of their purchases

By Tom Haynes

3 May 2023 • 1:31pm

Electric car owners are losing thousands of pounds a year to depreciation, with leading models losing value twice as fast as comparable petrol vehicles.

Early adopters of electric vehicles (EVs) have seen prices plummet by 39pc between 2020 and 2023, while petrol car prices fell by 30pc in the same period, according to used car comparison website Choose My Car.

Drivers have been pushed towards electric cars by a string of government initiatives, which are intended to help the country become “net zero” by 2050. However, drivers going green risk losing thousands of pounds more than those who stick with petrol.

Some popular electric models have fallen in price at twice the rate of petrol cars. A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

Choose My Car said electric cars had lost £15,000 of their value on average over a three-year period, from an average purchase price of £38,600. This compared with £9,900 for petrol vehicles, from an initial £32,700 purchase price.

…

link to telegraph.co.uk

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to Jojo

EVs lose very little over time. There are Tesla’s with over 100k miles that still have over 90% driving range. There’s evidence EVs can last for decades. Much longer than gas cars can. And full battery replacements are rare. Rarer than engine replacements. Tesla will replace the battery if it falls below 70% capacity in 8 years/120k miles.

I can’t speak to the specific cars in the article, but used tesla’s in the US aren’t discounted much below what a new one costs.

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

Talk is cheap. Provide some sources of your info to substantiate what you state.

Batteries wear out, whether they are in phones or cars. Each time you charge a battery, it loses a little bit of capacity. There is no way that a 100k mile Tesla still has 90% of battery capacity. As with resale value of cars, PT Barnum said it best with “There’s a sucker born every minute”.

Carl_R

11 months ago

Reply to Jojo

Here’s a datapoint on long term value retention. The Sebring Vanguard Citicar was $2690 new, 50 years ago. Here’s one on EBay, not in very good condition, for sale at $1200, and it is neither a collectible, nor a car in good condition. That’s an average decline of 1.6% a year. If the BWM fell from 39,000 to 13,900 in only three years, that says more about the specific model than anything else.

link to ebay.com

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to Carl_R

This is one of the dumber things you have ever posted!

Carl_R

11 months ago

Reply to Jojo

Nice to see you continuing your role as board troll. 😉

In any case, assuming that a car doesn’t become collectible for some reason, one can expect that it will deteriorate in value at a rate comparable to the mechanical components. What is a 1972 Pinto worth today? Few of them are even still running, though a few have probably been restored to make them “collectible”. Yet there are dozens of the old Citicars still running, even though only about 4500 were ever built, and they retain a significant portion of their original value. Why? They have a fiberglass body that doesn’t rust, and few mechanical components to go bad. No internal combustion engine, no transmission, no heating or air conditioning system, and so on. Long term, their value is set by the cost of battery replacement (moderate), and on their desirability to drive (low).

Today’s electric cars are far more complex, and have more systems that can go wrong, and time alone will tell how they stand the test of time. If some models, such as the BWM, have depreciated quickly, that’s an indication of problems specific to a model. There is also reason to believe that all electric cars were dramatically over-priced a few ago, as Tesla had long waits, regardless of price. People eagerly paid the asking price. Today the prices are much lower, and lower new car prices means means lower prices for used versions. Rapid depreciation is a problem experienced by early adopters of almost every technology, not specific to electric cars, and tells you little about how fast the item will depreciate, once the product is in wide production, and costs have stabilized.

What can we predict for the future?

1. At some point, prices of new electric cars will stabilize, at which point we can start to gain insight as to how fast the used ones will depreciate

2. Some models will turn out to have issues, and will fall faster in value than others

3. Due to simpler mechanical components, over time the limit on how much they fall in value depends on their desirability to drive, and on the long term costs of battery replacement

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

I admire Musk’s works.

However, I would not be comfortable with a parachute that works 90% of the time.

Even if they guarantee your money back if it fails.

vboring

11 months ago

Seems like they should be more upset about automakers reducing production to match demand rather than using incentives to clear inventory.

Seems like lower production would lead to less UAW pay.

link to www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Doug78

11 months ago

“The cheap money, subsidies, and tax credits should not have happened.”

That is true but when the Fed and the government offers you cheap money and tax credits you would have to be stupid not to take advantage of it be it to finance your startup or to buy your house or car.

Mjs357

11 months ago

Reply to Doug78

100%. As many family/friends/associates of mine that consistently received “stimmy” checks” and complained about the rising debt and inflation. I suggested if they did not need the money, and many did not, they send it back to the Treasury for deposit. How many did? Zero. All the talk by self-identified “R” voters and conservatives amounts to mostly squat. Humans gonna human. And who has ever met a “D” to not take a gov or private hand-out? They’re no different.

Electricman

11 months ago

Reply to Mjs357

Well said my friend, been preaching this for years!

worleyeoe

11 months ago

Tesla has a cost leadership position because they are vertically integrated.

Can’t wait until China starts selling cars in the US.

GM or Ford will be dead with the UAW leading the way.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to worleyeoe

China is really interesting. They’re now the biggest auto exporter. Zooming past Germany and Japan. They’re going to crush the European car market. And much of the car markets around the world. However the US is going to be more difficult. The IRA gives a big advantage to cars made in the US and we have heavy tariffs on chines autos.

What may end up happening is the world will benefit from low cost Chinese cars. But the US will be stuck in the stone age. Being forced to way overpay for inferior cars. We’re going to be like the old soviet union where people had to drive state cars.

And the big 3 won’t be able to sell anything outside the US.

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

Don’t knock my Trabant P 50.

The only possibly better car is a Citroën 2CV.

Zardoz

11 months ago

Reply to worleyeoe

Cheering the death of American industry? What a patriot!

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

KidHorn is electrifying!!!

Six000mileyear

11 months ago

The UAW is in trouble regardless of getting what they want. Drivers will ditch gas guzzling SUV’s for the lowest cost fuel efficient car they can find as the recession takes hold.

Casual_Observer2020

11 months ago

Reply to Six000mileyear

What makes you think oil and gas won’t drop by 50% of there is a deep recession?

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to Six000mileyear

It’s really hard to ditch a car that you are underwater on. Probably anyone who bought in 2020 or later is underwater on that vehicle due to the crazy run up in prices.

Now consider that auto loan interest rates are in the 5-6% range instead of the 2-3% and it makes it that much harder to afford the payments.

A recession would have to last a fair while (years) before drivers could ditch vehicles en masse.

RonJ

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

People are holding cars longer than ever, according to a recent report. My previous car, bought new, i owned for over 20 years. Current car, i bought used, is a 2000 model that had 35,000 miles at the time. Something over 65,000, currently. Have had it 14 of it’s 22+ years.

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

“It’s really hard to ditch a car that you are underwater on”

It’s called repossession!

Maximus_Minimus

11 months ago

Elon could win some propaganda points by advocating elimination of EV subsidies. True that he would lose some sales, but the competition would go outright bankrupt.

8dots

11 months ago

Ilan with David Faber (!!) CNBC 6pm tomorrow

Doug78

11 months ago

How many here are gifted?

link to smbc-comics.com

astroboy

11 months ago

Reply to Doug78

Me! Me!

Unfortunately…..

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to Doug78

I think I almost was but my parents couldn’t get any takers.

billybobjr

11 months ago

The real Hoot of the day is the John Durham report! Russia collusion was a hoax

and should have never been started no evidence except what was being made

up by the opposition party . Just think of that 10s of thousands of hours of MSM media

coverage and it was all conjured up by people inside the government no basis

for and investigation to have ever been started Robert Mueller ect. Talking

about sedition and election interference there you have it . Nothing to see here move along .

This implies the people inside the goverment tried to overthrow the elected president ,frame

him for a false crime . Wow and I mean Wow .

Zardoz

11 months ago

Reply to billybobjr

Wow! CNN is really gunning for you guys now that Fox is on the outs. How long before the boobie news and clickbait articles show up? Maybe they’ll even get Tucker?

Surreal…

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

Not sure with you if it’s willful ignorance or a complete lack of recognizing the obvious.

RonJ

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

It is surreal that people think we have free and fair elections, or still think that it’s safe and effective.

Avery

11 months ago

Reply to billybobjr

I’m looking forward to the transcript of the job interview where Bill Barr’s father hired Epstein to teach math at a girls private school.

babelthuap

11 months ago

Reply to Avery

He had no formal degree in teaching or math.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to billybobjr

The same thing is currently happening with the Biden crime family. There’s a huge problem with law enforcement in the US. The FBI is clearly politically biased and are being used as a weapon against conservatives. Who’s going to stop them? The FBI?

if a republican gets back in the white house, they need to clear the ranks of the federal government. Chop off the top 3 layers of every org chart and put honest people back in charge.

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

Changes in the Executive branch of the US Government seem to have little effect on the operations of the Bureaucratic branch of Government.

Doug78

11 months ago

Legacy car makers need subventions just to survive or perhaps to just to go bankrupt less quickly while Tesla with its lead in manufacturing costs and expertise does not. It would not be possible to cut them for one and leave them on for the others. Biden can’t force unionization of Tesla nor can he increase the subventions with a hostile House in Republican hands so all he can do is mumble along. So the car companies have no choice but to switch resources to EVs and borrow lots of money. They could get some money from the government to retool probably under national security justifications but that is still a couple of years away. EVs are mainstream now and purchased by people in both parties.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to Doug78

“It would not be possible to cut them for one and leave them on for the others”

Isn’t this EXACTLY what they are doing in Bidens inflation reduction act by only giving out subsidies to EV’s made in the USA? That’s the definition of cutting out some (esp the Japanese auto makers) and leaving in for others.

I expect the UAW to push for the revival of the clause that said they also had to be union made. That was removed but you can expect Biden to push for it to go back in to either force Tesla into unionization or give away lots of money to the legacy car makers.

Doug78

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

Teslas are the most American-made cars so that clause won’t cut out them out at all. As for making them union-made that would depend on a Republican House to pass that bill and I doubt that would happen. If Biden wants to hurt Tesla he will have to find another way.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to Doug78

I realize Tesla’s are US built. I was merely refuting your claim that it would be impossible to cut a subsidy for one car maker and leave it on for others. The US built clause does exactly that as Japanese, Korean (and soon Chinese) EV’s don’t qualify.

If the 2024 election ends up in a Democrat sweep then expect to see the union built clause come back up and likely pass.

Trust me, I don’t want it to happen and in fact I agree with Mish that all EV subsidies should go away (its long past time EVs stood on their own) but don’t under estimate the UAW and Biden.

Jojo

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

UAW will be replaced by robots in 10 years or less. It’s the only way for car manufacturers to stay competitive.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to Jojo

Probably not in 10 years but it’s definitely an ongoing process that started in the late 70s. There will always be the need some some workers but definitely way less than what they currently have.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

Even if tax credits were removed, Tesla would clean up. They’re building their biggest factory to date in Mexico where they’ll churn out model 2 cars that will retail for around $20k. They won’t need the tax credit to sell them by the millions.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

It will be interesting to see what happens if they can get a 20K car.

American’s are in love with SUV’s and trucks. That’s the breakthrough that everyone is trying to be the first to do because that’s where the real money is.

I suspect 20K EV’s will be a much bigger seller in say Europe and other world wide markets than the US.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to TexasTim65

There are EV SUVs and Trucks. You can buy a Rivian pickup right now. And there’s the ford lightning. GM is working on a few SUVs that are supposed to be available this fall. China makes a lot of EV SUVs and pickups. But, the US has big barriers to entry for chinese car makers. Much of the rest of the world can get cheap EV pickups. Some cost a little over $20k.

The model 2 will be a scaled down Model 3 and the Model 3 has sold pretty well.

TexasTim65

11 months ago

Reply to KidHorn

I read it was a scaled down model Y, not model 3.

If it comes out for 20K and gets solid reviews it might be the missus next car.

ThinkEconomically

11 months ago

This article was spot on.

Mish

11 months ago

Reply to ThinkEconomically

Thanks!

Billy

11 months ago

The biggest contributor towards energy demand is the internet. Digital currency blockchain is one of the largest parts of it.

If our government wanted us to have electric cars, they would be offering free charging. But instead they raise the cost of electricity, take solar incentives away like in California(NEM3) and propose a CBDC.

Matt3

11 months ago

Reply to Billy

That’s because the goal isn’t electric vehicles. The goal is limited mobility for the masses.

KidHorn

11 months ago

Reply to Billy

An EV is far cheaper to operate than a gas car. Most have a gas equivalent of over 100 mpg.

Zardoz

11 months ago

Capitalism grinds to a halt if the proles don’t have money to buy products with. They either need to be thrown a bone now and again, or a revolutionary transformation gets kicked off.

American proles put up with a lot, because they have a lot. The poorer they get the less compliant they will be.

astroboy

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

You’d think that the proles not being able to buy what they produce = train wreck would be the one thing in economics that everyone would agree is self evidently true.

I’m more cynical than Mish. Growing up the father of everyone I knew (except mine) worked on the line at Oldsmobile. Solid guys, who were willing to work for a reasonable wage to feed their kids, lead the scout troop, coach little league, stuff like that. Try maintaining a democracy without guys like that. Of course, Oldsmobile is extinct and there are no more factory jobs in the town for regular Joes and the place has gone completely to hell. What a surprise.

I think the car companies (or any company) would use ‘green’ as an excuse to cut wages, or, just as well, send jobs overseas. Who wins when that happens? Not the USA.

Zardoz

11 months ago

Reply to astroboy

Green isn’t the excuse, simplicity is. Electrics have about 2 orders of magnitude fewer moving parts than an ICE car. It just takes a lot less labor to assemble an electric car.

Engineering marches on, as it always has, and people gotta adapt, as they always have.

Lisa_Hooker

11 months ago

Reply to Zardoz

Coal mines have fewer moving parts than oil refineries.

HippyDippy

11 months ago

Don’t worry! The Republicans will pretend to put up a fight. Don’t forget to feel powerless. It’s not like you could just not buy their cars. And it seems to me that Ford’s battery problem saved them a ton of money since they lose so much on each one sold. I say bring on the mandates! You know it’s a great idea if it has to be mandated. To think that people take this garbage seriously. Now that’s amazing.

Jeff Dog

11 months ago

Reply to HippyDippy

operating margin is not the same as gross margin

HippyDippy

11 months ago

Reply to Jeff Dog

Losing over 30k on each of the vehicles they are focusing on is the point. And the investors (not the idiots, but the smart money) know that the direction will not be profitable. Who’s going to hold the stock in anticipation the costs will go down in 3 years? Way too much money to be made in the meantime elsewhere. You can talk about your minor differences all you want, but that stock ain’t going up. And that’s what’s important for a public corporation. Not accounting terms. If you’re going to focus on something that cost prohibitive, then money is going to fly out of that stock. And, can Ford afford to operate with so much money leaving? Only subsidies can save them. The market sure won’t do something that foolish.

And it’s still a ton of money lost on each vehicle sold. Which was all I stated.

Hoot of the Day: The UAW Demands a “Just Transition” to Electric Vehicles

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