If there are No SVB Bailouts, Will There Be Financial Armageddon?

Ackman’s View

“The FDIC’s and OCC’s failure to do their jobs should not be allowed to cause the destruction of 1,000s of our nation’s highest potential and highest growth businesses (and the resulting losses of 10s of 1,000s of jobs for some of our most talented younger generation) while also permanently impairing our community and regional banks’ access to low-cost deposits. …. the unintended consequences of the gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits are vast and profound and need to be considered and addressed before Monday. Otherwise, watch out below.”

No Bailout Proposals? Really?

Evans said no one was proposing a bailout. He was wrong.

https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1634729596489703426

hyperbole? Where?

How Big the Haircuts?

This is a crude way of figuring, but take a look at IEF, the 7-10 year US Treasury fund.

IEF 7-10 Year US Treasury Fund courtesy of StockCharts.Com

Since July of 2021 (also January 1, 2021) an investor in 7-10 year treasuries is down about 18 percent. 

I suspect that is a reasonable starting point in absence of other details.

Mark to Market Losses

I believe that implies a far smaller loss than what I crudely estimated. 

Pick a range, say 5 percent to 30 percent. That’s not the end of the world, even on the high end.

When Will Funds Be Available?

Might I suggest Monday? 

The Fed, Treasury, and FDIC will easily be able to work this out over the weekend with some sort of idea of maximum loss. 

If so, all of the money under the maximum loss scenario will likely be made available early next week, perhaps even Monday.

Silicon Valley Bank depositors undoubtedly understood the risks. And we do not even know the circumstances.

Did SVB promise above market rate interest on deposits? If so, should there be a penalty of chasing yields when you knowingly take risks?

I do not know if that happened but Ackman doesn’t seem to care if it did. I expect Silicon Valley depositors to understand FDIC risk regardless. 

Tired of Bailouts and Moral Hazards

A bailout is precisely the wrong thing to do, even though the Fed encourages speculation.

That brings up another valid point. Much of the money Ackman is fuming about was raised precisely because the Fed encouraged speculation.

Had the Fed not done so, the pool of money creating this setup: “(and the resulting losses of 10s of 1,000s of jobs for some of our most talented younger generation)” would not have been there in the first place. Silicon Valley knew this!

If the Fed makes most of the money available early next week, will any payrolls not be met?

Color me skeptical. 

Expect Criminal Indictments of SVB Top Executives

I Expect Criminal Indictments of SVB Top Executives. Bring it on. And stop the financial Armageddon hyperbole.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
In the absence of a bailout, what will happen? Deposits under $250k will be made whole, those over $250k will take a haircut. Will that spark financial Armageddon? Hardly. This is what I expect:
1. People with over $250k in one bank will consider spreading the money between multiple banks. The net effect of that is zero. Some banks will see less deposits, others will see more.
2. Large depositors will give more scrutiny to the balance sheets of the banks they use. This is a good thing.
3. Other banks will be much more careful to avoid getting themselves in this position. Another good thing.
4. Other banks who hold large amounts of MBS or long bonds may see runs. So? They should. This, in turn, will spark a round of bank consolidation, where well run banks profit from the failure of competitors. While I don’t care for the outcome of fewer and larger banks, it’s how the free market works.
5. Large depositors will take haircuts. I agree with Mish that they will probably be on the order of 20-40%. It will sting, but won’t shut down the economy; it won’t even shut down many companies. They may need to find additional investors, of course, but if their idea is sound, they will.
PreCambrian
PreCambrian
2 years ago
Maybe we should not protect the depositors. This would however probably result in a run to the largest banks, who then if they failed, would be bailed out.
The most interesting arguments in the link are 1) Why not give everyone the option of a checking account at the Fed?; 2) Banks are now protected against interest rate risks. Will this become permanent?
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
Actually, I would expect the reverse, a run to smaller banks. If I had $3m in cash, the logical thing to do in a “banks will be allowed to fail” world would be to divide it 12 ways, and put $250k in each of 12 banks.
D_S
D_S
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
That’s practical for individual accounts but not very practical for companies who keep large amount of operational deposits.

For a bank that has that high a percentage of uninsured deposits it’s more a matter of when they will fail rather than if. Uninsured deposits are not stable funding and this was widely acknowledged by the regulators when they set the outflow rates for commercial deposits under the LCR. These clients will always be the first to leave if they believe there is risk.

alexwest
alexwest
2 years ago
=0s of 1,000s of jobs for some of our most talented younger generation
see ? IT IS FOR THE KIDS .
those so called billionaires are so stupid!
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
“If there are No SVB Bailouts, Will There Be Financial Armageddon?”
Who cares? Certainly noone who can read does…
“Financial Armageddons” are always and everywhere good things. What is important is that markets clear. And are left to do so without interference, backstops, bailouts nor any other childish euphemism for what never was, never will be since it never can be anything other than attempting to excuse yet more robbing of the productive, in order to hand always unearned loot to completely useless connecteds.
If they clear, interference free, without so called “armageddon”, then fine. If not, that’s exactly, 100%, just as fine.
8dots
8dots
2 years ago
SVB provided funds to innovation co and startups in other countries. SVB is the focal point of small disruptive co. They are the “elite”. They are the prima donna that danced on the global stage. Their collapse created panic in other high tech centers.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
2 years ago
“All your uninsured deposit are belong to us.”
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
The problem with learning by experience is you take the test before you learn the material. The advantage, you seldom forget what you learned. Apply the lessons of 2008.
1: Too big to fail.
2: If you do fail, the Fed will bail you out.
With risk and return chronically under-priced (even irrelevant when real rates are near zero/negative), with no need to do due diligence, we arrive at 2023. Repeat the lessons of 2008 again, and really drive them home… ARE THEY CRAZY?
Will there be financial Armageddon? I hope so, although political eunuchs will decide.
Now, add the learning from experience that occurred in 2020-1. Ever more handouts. Ever greater control imposed by government (and corporations). Add in decades of US f*(kery in global politics and economics…. and a Russia-China alliance. And president Cluster Fudge.
Rbm
Rbm
2 years ago

Bailouts. Will happen if someone who has an interest(finical or political) has the pull to make it so. Enough money or public opinion can be used to sway in either direction.

8dots
8dots
2 years ago
Reply to  Rbm
SVB collapse is a GLOBAL “event”, It must be contained.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  8dots
Global event?
Their assets aren’t even a rounding error in the US markets never mind the global market.
MarkraD
MarkraD
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I’m pretty sure you’re right.
Right now other bloggers are working hard to invoke fear of bank runs and financial doom.
.
MBA SOFA
MBA SOFA
2 years ago

Really? All Wall Street and Silicon Valley big brains learned yesterday that deposits are guaranteed to 250k? Are all panicking about that information, running to their banks?

They are incredible dumbs or tremendous cynicals.
8dots
8dots
2 years ago
“Holding to maturity” isn’t a crime. SVB collapse is a warning sign to other banks and co to cut their losses before they accumulate. Hope and prayers aren’t good enough.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  8dots
Holding to maturity is great for 90-day T-bills, not for 5+ years when you are stashing cash for the short term. But when interest rates are relatively low and inflation is blazing, what choice is there?
The kicker:
Mass dumping of gov bonds will drive prices to the basement, so greater losses, and greater dumping.
The time value of money was always the problem with near zero/negative real rates. Wall Street geniuses learned that in the first year of B-school. Now, they have a time bomb going off–low-hanging fruit falling first
Quagmire46
Quagmire46
2 years ago
Reply to  8dots
I agree. Holding rock bottom rate Treasuries and paying market rate interest on deposits is a losing game both short and long term.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  8dots
True
8dots
8dots
2 years ago
Bonds unrealized losses two categories. 1) “Available for sale” : unrealized losses don’t reduce earnings, but reduce equities.
2) “Held to maturity” : unrealized losses will not reduce either earnings and equities, it will be hidden from both.
Banks “held to maturity” unrealized losses reached $690B in Sept 2022. It might reach between $800B and $1T in Mar 2023.
Short sellers know where to look. They might lock in their radars on multi targets, kill the clock, play games, but within few months nail
few big ones, or ==> lose their shirts if SPX support line between 2020 low and Oct 10 2022 close hold…and send SPX higher, to a new all
time high.
1-shot
1-shot
2 years ago
Bill Ackman is just another Wall Street schill.
Who does he think hes kiddng? The FDIC and OCC’s job isn’t to bail out incompetent criminals and their Wall Street enablers every time their Ponzi cons and musical chairs games implode. Read this article about SVB’s woke execs. They’re worse than the Sam Bankman Fried gang.
Letting SVB fail spectacualrly is EXACTLY what is needed. Let the pre IPO zombie companies and their VC’s and “angel” investors lose their a$$es this time around. From Michael Milkin (pardoned by D. Trump) and Ivan Boetsky to Lehman Brothers, Wall Street criminals have been bailed out and rewarded handsomely for fleecing small and large LEGITIMATE investors.
Its time to turn up the fire and let them fry this time. Criminal indictments are in order too.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
A simple bail-in would be to liquidate until ever account receives $250K from proceeds. Remaining deposits and lenders would hold remaining assets until maturity. This minimizes the haircut, and avoids other banks profiting from undervalued assets.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
I agree. Why spare the rod when a good thrashing is required? Sell the Vail mansion, the 150ft megayacht…
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
That’s exactly what they are going to do.
Minus forcing people to hold assets to maturity. You can’t be serious that people wouldn’t be able to access their money for 15-25 years. That would never ever fly. Instead the assets will be sold off and you’ll get whatever money they get from the sale of the asset.
El_Tedo
El_Tedo
2 years ago
Wall Street, like Washington, always wants to kick the can down the road, only we are running out of road.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  El_Tedo
It will then turn to offroading.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago

Elon Musk has said he is open to the idea of buying SVB but most people think he is just teasing us and maybe he is……..or maybe not.

SVB will most likely have its client accounts transferred to a solvent institution and the rest of the bank will be sold off in pieces. The personnel of the investment banking unit have already said that they want to buy the unit themselves and there are certainly other parts that would be valuable enough to be bought by other parties.

For Musk the personal online banking part would be the most valuable since it would give Twitter an already up and running payment and money transfer system which could be easily integrated. Additionally, all banks already have their own online payment systems and would not be interested in buying it so in principle it could be bought very cheaply in an auction. A bank wouldn’t be interested but a company like Facebook would but Facebook is already deep into negotiations and partnerships with other banks over this so Facebook is probably already tied up too much with them to change now. Other than Facebook I don’t see who else would be interested in buying SVB’s online banking operations.

If things play out like they look to play out with SVB then it will be broken up and Musk will be able to pick up that part which complements completely with what he wants Twitter to be for a song. I am sure he was well aware of SVB’s fragility, Peter Theil certainly was, and probably has had his eye on doing this for a while now.

Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78

Elon ruined people’s trust in him, they aren’t going to trust money to the Bank of Elon

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Because he has exposed democraps as liars and frauds? All of those ‘kooks’ you ridiculed are suddenly looking less like kooks and more like critical thinkers.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You are talking about yourself. Elon’s Twitter has more users than before he bought it and his cars are selling like hot cakes so you can’t really conclude that trust in him has wavered. Telsa’s stock is down but so is every other tech company or if you prefer to compare it to the automotive sector that index is down 50% as well. It’s a bear market. Nevertheless some on the Left can’t stand him and say that……on Twitter as they drive their Teslas.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Still too early. The fruit is just starting to fall.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
He has time. I doubt that anyone else would be interested in picking up that part of the company.
lakerz
lakerz
2 years ago
Agree with Mish no more bailouts!!! Enough is enough, my portfolio down close to 20% from highs (including my own capital losses from owning some long duration USTs) and boo hoo for me. Everybody involved takes the 10-30% haircut and move on with life
MarkraD
MarkraD
2 years ago
I’m a retail peon and even I knew to short treasuries in 2020, how does a financial institution packed with finance degrees make a mistake this stupid?
It’s almost like they intentionally failed, I don’t get it.
And, to Ackman – “the unintended consequences of the gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits”
How did Government fail?
.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
There’s a good chance somebody connected to them made bank off their “failure “
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Because when confronted by sustained near-zero real rates, they treated it like a massive windfall. It comes down to risk and uncertainty. Surviving uncertainty takes a special mind.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
The had too much hope to be good for them.
LM2022
LM2022
2 years ago
Wouldn’t a bank bailout have to be authorized by congress anyway? It’s hard to see how a bill to bail out California Venture Capitalists could pass the US House. It would also be terrible optics to bail out millionaires and billionaires while refusing to bail out student loans for the working class.
MarkraD
MarkraD
2 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
Where college debtors don’t bribe Congress in the form of campaign contributions, wealthy depositors do, it’ll be interesting to see what happens.
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago
Etsy can’t process payments because of SVB failure. Real-time misery for millions of people.
lakerz
lakerz
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Boo hoo so Etsy is down for the count for a few days. Time for society to put on their big boy pants and realize life is unfair
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  lakerz

Contempt for entrepreneurs and working people… check!

lakerz
lakerz
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I hold my contempt for those crying out for bailouts everyday. USA has become bailout nation! Moral hazard on a daily basis. The heck with that…
phil
phil
2 years ago
I started getting big pop ads today for/by First Republic Bank. Picture of pretty family (one kid) and a request to please bank with us.
Mish
Mish
2 years ago
Reply to  phil
Interesting
Do they fear a run?
Matt3
Matt3
2 years ago
Depositors will be made whole. It doesn’t make sense to do anything different. The number 1 priority is the stability of the banking system. Businesses can’t function with all deposits over 250k at risk. It would cause a flight from community banks and regional banks to the money center banks as they are “too big to fail”. You would see a lot more bank failures. Banks can’t survive runs even if they are well run.
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
I suggest you familiarize yourself with Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Act. There is something called “bank bail-in” where YOU the depositor will bail out the bank, not the government.
Matt3
Matt3
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
So when has that occurred?
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
It was passed after the 2008 chaos and SVB is the first large scale failure to happen so here we are and we’ll see how well (or badly) this law works over the next few months.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
The FDIC Systemic Resolution Advisory Committee held a meeting in November to discuss the expected upcoming bank bail-ins and the need to keep the news from the populace to avoid further bank runs.
Here is a short 1 min excerpt video clip from the session:
The whole session available on FDIC website.
Here we are.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
It was not used in the US but it was used in the EU when banks in Cyprus imploded in 2013. As a condition for receiving a EU bail-out Cyprus agreed to close its second largest bank and to impose a one-time levy on uninsured deposits at the country’s largest bank that amounted to about 48% of the deposits’ worth to recapitalize it. Ouch! So there is precedence of that being done in first-world economies.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Dodd-Frank relieved the Federal government from bailing out “too big to fail” banks, but it never eliminated the problem of duration mismatch.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
2 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
The duration mismatch is largely due to the FED’s monetary transmission mechanism since 1965 has been interest rates.
1-shot
1-shot
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
You should read up some more on the FDIC. Let depositors pick up the tab for their mistakes. If the FDIC bails them out, the US Tresury ultimatey picks up the tab and the US treasury is you and I and every other reader here.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
The problem is: “To avoid a potential calamity, the Dodd-Frank Act gives preference to derivative claims.” They have no skin in the game.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
They won’t be made whole.
There will be a haircut. Losing 20% sucks but it’s not the end of the world and it’s a valuable lesson learned that risk is never zero.
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago
What no one is talking about which vexed and exacerbated the 2008 GFC is counter-party risk. If you are a business owner with $10 million in cash for payroll at Bank X do you keep it there or move it to spread the risk? I agree there should be no bailout but the reality is that on Monday every business owner with more than $250k in the bank is going to start moving money around – I guarantee that will happen on Monday and there will be bank winners and bank losers. Republic Bank had people waiting in line as did other banks, it’s all over Reddit with photos and videos across the country where people are queuing to get money out. There is also a list of companies that had accounts at SVB and the millions held there – many of those people aren’t getting paid until this mess clears out.
Everyone is running to T-Bills and other government bonds which is something I have been doing for the past many months and commenting here until my recent break. Will all the moving around of money cause financial Armageddon? No one can say for certain but why take the risk especially if you exceed 250k FDIC limit at a bank? WHY RISK IT?
As a side note, I received a bizarre letter from a large broker reminding me that they have CDs and other cash investment vehicles available to me at the firm at ‘great rates.’ I say bizarre because in the 20+ years I have had an account at this brokerage firm, I’ve never received such a letter until today. I am now wondering if I need to pull some money out of there. I will also note that my latest 1 month T-Bill purchase has been taking forever to process. I plan on calling on Monday to figure out what the heck is going on but I suspect I will be on hold for hours.
Quagmire46
Quagmire46
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
This is spreading faster than the Covid !
(Sorry. I couldn’t resist.)
1-shot
1-shot
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
The reason why we dont risk it is because you and I indirecly fund the FDIC and will end up picking up the tab for these incompetent “bankers” and their high risk zombie clients.
Indictments will come next. There’s way more to this story, like insiders dumping stock right before the crash and spending their time celebrating LGB+++ events instead of running the bank.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Back in 2007-8 I was in ‘cash’ for quite some time, before the actual crash. I expected a bank run, and moved into CDs–paying 3-5% at the time, Each one less than $100K, with maximum of 90 days–usually less, and spread across the US–because most most recessions are ‘rolling.’ As banks came closer to failing, I shifted to gold etfs. This time around, the haven is gold, but in three countries.
dtj
dtj
2 years ago
Wolf predicts 10-20% haircut at most.
If there’s a bailout (and there very well may be depending on the political connections of the individuals affected) it will be “off the books” or it will be concealed behind smoke and mirrors.
Matt3
Matt3
2 years ago
Reply to  dtj
No I think the bailout will be visible as that is the point. They need to provide liquidity and remove doubt. This will by time to access the situation at each institution and take steps to resolve it.
The Federal reserve bank works for the banks and the health and stability of the banks is the number 1 priority. After that, there are some mandates from the government that might get considered from time to time

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