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Is Fair Trade is Unfair? What About Cheap Labor?

Paul Krugman’s Nobel Prize

https://twitter.com/TommyThornton/status/1556012830691938304

Investopedia notes that in 1979, Paul Krugman wrote a paper that earned him the 2008 Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences for introducing an entirely new theory of international trade.

Thomas Thornton told Paul Krugman to send his Nobel prize back. 

It may be instructive to compare Krugman’s stance on free trade to mine. First, let’s ponder a few background questions.

  • Are bad jobs at bad wages better than no jobs at all? 
  • Should the US demand third world economies pay “living wages”? 
  • If countries don’t oblige with living wages, should we impose tariffs so the US does not lose jobs to those countries?

With those questions in mind, let’s compare what I believe vs. Krugman’s trade beliefs that won him the Nobel prize.

Moral Outrage Over Free Trade

This is what I think….

Moral outrage is common among the opponents of globalization–of the transfer of technology and capital from high-wage to low-wage countries and the resulting growth of labor-intensive Third World exports. These critics take it as a given that anyone with a good word for this process is naïve or corrupt and, in either case, a de facto agent of global capital in its oppression of workers here and abroad.

But matters are not that simple, and the moral lines are not that clear. In fact, let me make a counter-accusation: The lofty moral tone of the opponents of globalization is possible only because they have chosen not to think their position through. While fat-cat capitalists might benefit from globalization, the biggest beneficiaries are, yes, Third World workers.

The benefits of export-led economic growth to the mass of people in the newly industrializing economies are not a matter of conjecture. A country like Indonesia is still so poor that progress can be measured in terms of how much the average person gets to eat; since 1970, per capita intake has risen from less than 2,100 to more than 2,800 calories a day. A shocking one-third of young children are still malnourished–but in 1975, the fraction was more than half. Similar improvements can be seen throughout the Pacific Rim, and even in places like Bangladesh.

Why, then, the outrage of my correspondents? Why does the image of an Indonesian sewing sneakers for 60 cents an hour evoke so much more feeling than the image of another Indonesian earning the equivalent of 30 cents an hour trying to feed his family on a tiny plot of land–or of a Filipino scavenging on a garbage heap?

The main answer, I think, is a sort of fastidiousness. Unlike the starving subsistence farmer, the women and children in the sneaker factory are working at slave wages for our benefit–and this makes us feel unclean. And so there are self-righteous demands for international labor standards: We should not, the opponents of globalization insist, be willing to buy those sneakers and shirts unless the people who make them receive decent wages and work under decent conditions.

This sounds only fair–but is it? Let’s think through the consequences.

First of all, even if we could assure the workers in Third World export industries of higher wages and better working conditions, this would do nothing for the peasants, day laborers, scavengers, and so on who make up the bulk of these countries’ populations. At best, forcing developing countries to adhere to our labor standards would create a privileged labor aristocracy, leaving the poor majority no better off.

And it might not even do that. The advantages of established First World industries are still formidable. The only reason developing countries have been able to compete with those industries is their ability to offer employers cheap labor. Deny them that ability, and you might well deny them the prospect of continuing industrial growth, even reverse the growth that has been achieved. And since export-oriented growth, for all its injustice, has been a huge boon for the workers in those nations, anything that curtails that growth is very much against their interests. A policy of good jobs in principle, but no jobs in practice, might assuage our consciences, but it is no favor to its alleged beneficiaries.

You may say that the wretched of the earth should not be forced to serve as hewers of wood, drawers of water, and sewers of sneakers for the affluent. But what is the alternative? Should they be helped with foreign aid?

And as long as you have no realistic alternative to industrialization based on low wages, to oppose it means that you are willing to deny desperately poor people the best chance they have of progress for the sake of what amounts to an aesthetic standard–that is, the fact that you don’t like the idea of workers being paid a pittance to supply rich Westerners with fashion items.

In short, my correspondents are not entitled to their self-righteousness. They have not thought the matter through. And when the hopes of hundreds of millions are at stake, thinking things through is not just good intellectual practice. It is a moral duty.

What Does Paul Krugman Think? 

To understand why Krugman won the Nobel prize, please read the above paragraphs again. 

Say what?

Everything above following “This is what I think….” was not written by me. Rather it is purposeful plagiarism. 

Paul Krugman wrote that in 1997. The title of Krugman’s Op-Ed article in Salon was In Praise of Cheap Labor.

Yes readers, Paul Krugman is on record “In Praise of Cheap Labor“.

Mind to Mush

Paul Krugman won his Nobel Prize for trade. I agree with everything above. There is nothing at all in the full article I would disagree with.

After accurately complaining “my correspondents are not entitled to their self-righteousness,” Krugman has morphed into the self-righteous political hack he once criticized. 

Yes, Krugman should return the prize. He no longer believes in the free trade ideas that earned him the prize.

Misguided Souls Still Do Not Understand This Simple Truth: Sanctions Don’t Work

If you think sanctions and tariffs will fix any problems please consider Misguided Souls Still Do Not Understand This Simple Truth: Sanctions Don’t Work

And in case you believe in that “Giant Sucking Sound”, please consider Trump’s Unwinnable Trade War: Gold Explains Why

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

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53 Comments
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oee
oee
3 years ago
There is no free trade. Only corporate trade agreements. According to the econ Dr. Dean Baker, the US and others are protectionists on medicines and services by Doctors and other proffessions. The US enforces strict patents on medicines so that the US citizens pay more in medicines that others. Also, India & China could produce those at a cheaper rate if there were compulsary licenses.
Doctors in the US are protected by the AMA . Only 1200 foreregin doctors are alowed in the US. If we have free trade, then would have unlimited number of qualified physicians in the uS and would drive wages of Doctors here down and the medical industry would charge a lot less.
However, Doctors in the US are subject to the discipline of the free market.
Also, there some products that are protected. for example, “Bourbon” can only be called that if made in Ky. However, consumers cannot benefit by Mexican of Candadian made Bourbon. There several products that fall in this category.
Thus, the only “Free trade” is that US mulitnational can go anyware to set up a factory and fire workers.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
The Fed holding interest too low for too long created this asset bubble / nontransitory inflation.
The world is no longer flat. The world is now saturated with First World nations strapped with debt. This debt is now strapping their normally largest consuming generation with high rents, energy costs,food, etc.
So now the millenials are poor relative to previous generations. What other outcome could have been expected, outside of nationalism?
First world debt will never be “fixed by free or fair trade. Expect the wealthy to continue to be weathly and the poor to get poorer.
Central banks have violated whatever charters they have with the common person. Abolish them.
BlauGloriole
BlauGloriole
3 years ago
The average US citizen cannot articulate the steal but instinctively knows that the system has systematically robbed him of his wealth. This is the issue, not the use of “slave labor” abroad.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
I’m not opposed to Indonesian sweat shops paying people a dollar a day so I can have cheap sneakers. Only this system clearly doesn’t work. My sneakers aren’t cheap – they still cost $200. There is an obscene disparity between what the workers make and what the others in the supply chain are getting. Why not make it a bit fairer for those at the bottom?
Crenvy
Crenvy
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
But, you bought the sneakers knowing this.
GodfreeRoberts
GodfreeRoberts
3 years ago
As a percentage of GDP, China has always been a below-average trader. Even below Canada, and far below Germany, partly because the WTO set humiliating admission terms for China.
Chinahad to accept reduced rights against other members; open her economy to competition; eliminate state monopolies on imports and exports; overhaul domestic laws, regulations, procedures, and administrative and judicial institutions across all levels of government; make deep tariff commitments for imports; significantly liberalize services; make all trade regulations nondiscriminatory; make government standard-setting transparent and base them on international norms; submit to stringent IP protection; allow independent review of all trade-related administrative actions by foreign judicial and administrative tribunals; reduce tariffs on trade goods to ten percent (rich Brazil agreed to thirty-one percent and India to forty-eight percent); make broader, deeper commitments than any comparable economy on financial, telecommunication, professional, and distribution services; and grant other members greater rights against herself than she had against them–thus violating the WTO’s nondiscrimination law.

These terms, which echoed the Unequal Treaties, outraged popular sentiment but, when I warned a Chinese banker friend that membership would retard his country’s development, he reflected for a moment and responded, “I disagree about our vulnerability. This is a game we can win”.

By 2009, China was the object of forty percent of all WTO anti-dumping investigations and seventy-five percent of countervailing duties, so Beijing sent observers to every WTO panel, studied the example of the US and the EU, and learned to use–or bypass–the dispute process.

Beijing became an active litigant and her litigation strategy was so aggressive that the US and the EU lost cases involving billions of dollars. When China required Internet companies to use local servers, the US objected but found WTO rules unavailing.

By 2010, China was the world’s largest economy. By 2013, it was the world’s largest trader in goods and, by 2020, American officials were complaining that US membership in the WTO was a bad bargain.

Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
Excellent comment on how the WTO really works. If China entered WTO on unequal terms, did it ever ask for review, or signed hundred bilateral treaties, instead?
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
Just add one concrete case: the US objected China restricting export of rare earth minerals so it can do more value added. I thought, what? Is WTO neo-colonialism by another name? Free trade used to be about selling stuff on equal terms, not the right to plunder someone’s resources.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Economics isn’t a science and thus the Nobel prize should never be given out of anything other than its original intent.
Regarding cheap labor there are many aspects to this but most labor in the the world is still bonded. Most people in places like China aren’t free to choose where they work or what they do. The world kind of operates on momentum this way even in free societies. People end up doing what their parents have done or told them to do. The economic system anywhere isn’t really based on freedom of choice. The very basis of all economics is what makes people survive. There is an argument to be made here but it requires an understanding and awareness by everyone that hasn’t existed and doesn’t.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Nobel refused to make a prize for economics because he thought economists were charlatans. It is not an official Nobel prize but only a prize in Economic Sciences awarded by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, and according to the same principles as for the Nobel Prizes.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
I’m not sure I get what the meaning of “is” is in that headline. Is our children learning, or was that a typo?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
But matters are not that simple, and the moral lines are not that clear.
This is a statement I agree with exceedingly.
But I remain with a question:
Is exploitation even theoretically possible?
Does exploitation exist?
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Let’s be clear. Anyone who uses a sneaker as an argument for or against globalization is half baked and ignoring the real crux of globalization. What the USA must do is define those items that are of great national security, and those are the things that the conversation needs to be around, not freaking sneakers. I can quickly think of the following categories:
pharmaceuticals
food
fossil fuels
semiconductors
steel & various alloys
rare earth metals
batteries for cars (solid state) & homes (flow / redux)
solar panels
industrial components for energy & defense
automotive components
We don’t have to make 100% of all of these items in the USA, but we need to make at least 50% of what’s needed for domestic consumption with the rest being produced in friendly countries to the USA that aren’t right next door to countries like China & Russia. Ireland comes to mind.
I’m an economic nationalist who understands that free / fair trade is an illusion. We may very well have to assume a higher rate of inflation than 2% in order to get the shipping moving in the right direction. If we allow the dems to run things for the next 30 years, we’re really screwed in terms of inflation.
The real problem is that environmentalist have put us back decades in terms of making a smooth transition to renewables like solar & wind sitting on top of base-load nuclear power. We should have had molten salt thorium reactors 15 years ago along with these 4th generation SMRs. And we have Jimmy Carter to blame for not allowing nuclear fuel to be reprocessed like it is in France. A company called Transatomic’s molten salt reactor uses spent nuclear waste.
If we had started this 30 years ago, we wouldn’t need to build all of the batteries for storing energy for use when the sun isn’t shining & the wind isn’t blowing. To do so is going to rape the environment, but people like FJB are going to outsource this catastrophe to countries like Congo.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Trade is a means to an end and not a end in itself and if you confuse the two then you end up making very foolish decisions in order fulfil what becomes the dogma and ignore common sense solutions.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Absolutely total BS. Stop using dogma and get into the real world, Doug! America has a very short window to get this crap figured out. China is rising rapidly. They’ve caught up to us or past us in a plethora of key technologies. They are aligning themselves with Russia, Iran, Brazil, Venezuela, and countless other countries via their belt & road initiative. The extent to which they’ve cornered the rare earth metals is staggering. The USA should not be dependent on China for anything on the list. And, there’s at least 5-10 other things that should be added. To let this continue is just an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen. I could care less where iPhones, sneakers, toys, etc. are made. What matters is the stuff that’s of national security. Could you imagine how bad things will get for us if China cuts us off from pharma, if they invaded Taiwan?
Our government is more concerned about making Trump pay than making China pay for the Wuhan virus. The USA is less than 10 years from becoming the second greatest superpower on earth. And, that’s freaking scary. In case you didn’t notice, China has the ability to control it’s citizens. We don’t, because there’s such enormous political divisions. These divisions are going to be what brings us down. In 3 to 5 years, if we don’t get our act together, the level of social un-rest is going to be 3 times what it is today.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
If you read carefully what I said you would see that it aligns with what you said so I don’t understand why you said it was BS.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
The textbooks always say free trade leads to prosperity through free market capitalism. However what are the textbook say when you engage in free trade with a country that steals your IP and who sole intent is basically to vanquish you and world domination. I wonder what the textbook say about that
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
You both prosper and build amazing weapons to slaughter each other with, and use them. Then the survivors crawl out of the wreckage and start the game over.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Unfortunately that is exactly was has always happened throughout history. If you want peace prepare for war.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Ireland? You want to ask the Irish to start making stuff for you? Seriously? I don’t think they would like that kind of work.
Naphtali
Naphtali
3 years ago
I am old. I remember those days when credit was difficult to come by. To buy a car with a loan, one had to appear before an official that would gauge the credit worthiness of the aspirant. Most people bought things on layaway. With globalization came the age of credit cards and easily obtained loans. It was the sweetener for what was to transpire during the age of the new economy. The economy indeed boomed. It has been a rather mixed blessing. At first, goods were wonderfully inexpensive. As time has gone by, this is less and less so. More credit – more inflation. Indeed many abroad have been lifted from a mean life to one far better. At some future credit bust, I believe we will be providing more of the cheap labor that propels free trade worldwide. Then we shall be lifted as well.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Naphtali
Prosperity is a long-term cycle. Todays posterchild is tomorrow’s rustbelt and a long craw back upward.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
The steel workers strike in 1919 sent the economy down until 1921. In the 1930’s, during the depression, the strikers became more militant.
In 2008 GM was toasted. There was no stopping to the invincible unions, until Nixon trip to China. // Many software co use Ukraine programmers. They are good & smart. Ukraine became an international hub. The high tech boys went to the war. The rest are subjected to fx. USD/UAH (Ukraine currency) took off, first slowly, then faster. Those who escaped to US will have to compete with their friends in Kyev. If QQQ downtrend cont the FANG horse trading will start : on your mark, get set, go… to the 70’s.
Dr_Novaxx
Dr_Novaxx
3 years ago
Labor is the #1 cost for business, so it behooves those who supply labor (laborers) to find alternatives to employment income, the exchanging of time for money, because otherwise they will run out of both eventually.
The most absurd thing I’ve heard businessmen say is “if I had cheap enough labor I would be profitable”, but yes, of course! That’s the whole point–To be successful, you must develop a business plan that accounts for non-cheap labor.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Dr_Novaxx
It is only recently, the last 50 years or so, that labor costs began to and continue to predominate.
Vice presidents have always been expensive, as have directors and chairmen.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
I lost any respect I had for winners of the Nobel Prize in Economics when Long Term Capital Management went under in 1998. It’s team included two Nobel Prize in Economics, a gaggle of Harvard professors and a ex-vice-chairman of the Fed. Their bailout by the government set into stone the idea that the Fed will always bailout the markets, financial institutions, the economy and just about everybody well-connected. In my career I often saw well-regarded economists pushing dubious investment ideas because they were paid to.
As for sanctions and tariffs not fixing any problems that depends on what you want them to do and how you construct them.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago

It IS complicated. The small increase in living standards around the world that resulted from globalization is welcome. One can only hope that globalization continues and living standards continue to increase all over the world.

However, there are many in America who are against globalization, and selfishly want to “keep the jobs here”. Even though they would never work for the miniscule wages that are being paid to the workers in those countries.

Meanwhile, millions of well paid jobs sit empty here, for a lack of skilled workers.

Yet many Americans are unwilling to allow skilled immigrants to come here and fill those empty jobs.

It is interesting that in a country whose prosperity was created by immigrants from all over the world that so many now want to deny prosperity to those outside our borders, or to allow them in to share in our prosperity and continue to grow our country.

Sadly, this selfishness is just “one more thing” that I cannot do anything about.

Which is why (as usual) I will not bother to debate this any further. I have said my piece. I will not waste anymore time on it.

Good article Mish.

worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
“Meanwhile, millions of well paid jobs sit empty here, for a lack of skilled workers. Yet many Americans are unwilling to allow skilled immigrants to come here and fill those empty jobs.”
I totally disagree. Are you even familiar with all the different type of visas there are that allow people from around the world to come here to work? Here, take a look at this web site. It’s CRAZY how many there are.
H1-B visas are the poster child. Companies, especially tech, abuse the system to bring people here that are totally dependent on their employers to stay here. They take America jobs all the time. Americans have to train their foreign replacements. This saves companies tens of billions of dollars every year from Google, MS, FB, Apple, etc.
And those millions of empty jobs are mostly an illusion nowadays. 80% of them are jobs that companies hope to fill in order to meet future demand. They are starting to vanish just as expected now that the economy is getting a little jittery in some areas.
And to be clear, I’m not against globalization. I realize it does us great good, but you’re very much misleading things as you state them. You’re vastly underestimating how many jobs are taken by foreign workers where there’s a qualified American or someone who could be retrained. You’re naivete is just staggering.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
I remember watching a young lady 3 years ago in a 60 Minutes segment trying to get a medical residency. She said, and I believe her, that there were 6,000 Americans that year who couldn’t get residencies, because so many were given to foreign nationals. I’ve had enough experiences with doctors & dentists over the last five years to realize she’s most likely right. There’s a difference between taking the world’s best & brightest and turning it largely into a financial decision which is what it has become. The medical industry is no different than the tech industry. They’ve figured out how to abuse the visa process to the great detriment of the American worker. At the University level, how much IP has been stolen by China is the last 30 years? It’s utterly staggering. Just like Joe Biden has flung open the southern border, we did the same thing 20 years ago with the educated work force. Both (foreign visas & illegal immigration) are doing us more harm than good.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
While agreeing with much of what @PapaDave wrote, I’ll launch on a nit.
“The small increase in living standards around the world”
Small?
The numbers I’ve seen say, “Huge”. And, not just the numbers. Drive around Lower Slobovia in Google street view a while. Here’s a random helicopter-in to or near (I didn’t check – I just clicked at random) a capital town (emphasis, town – this is one of the poorest, smallest, least-blessed countries in the world). https://goo.gl/maps/XtLuKPn9V3etskVk7 And, now let’s randomly hit the sticks in Bangladesh, where rock stars wanted to keep people from starving: https://goo.gl/maps/sDGY3JMsMoHMheKJ6 I don’t see the bloated bellies.
This idea that Americans have been impoverished because jobs have been stolen by foreigners is proof of “huge’! Objectively, Americans have not been impoverished. Far from it. Most of the commenters here are old enough to know better, if we take our good-old-days, rose-colored glasses off and look at reality. What has happened is that the poorest Americans are no longer rich enough to effectively buy and sell most of the world’s peoples. At the worst, Americans are only better off compared to Americans, say, 50 years ago. (Check Home Depot or Costco against an old Sears catalog.) So because things have gone very, very, very well for people all around the world, Americans comparatively have not improved all that much. And that’s a bad thing? That’s like saying you’re failing at gymnastics because you got an Olympic Silver Medal. Well, yes. Compared to the Gold Medalist, you failed. Sigh. Woe is you.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
“You may say that the wretched of the earth should not be forced to serve as hewers of wood, drawers of water, and sewers of sneakers for the affluent. But what is the alternative? Should they be helped with foreign aid?”
Many people often cite Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations but few ever discuss ‘The Theory of Moral Sentiments’ which outlined that morality depends on sympathy between the individual and other members of society.
According to Encyclopedia Britannica, homo sapiens are 300,000 years old and humanity lived in balance with the earth for most of that time. Since The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, planet earth has been totally trashed.
Krugman asked, “what is the alternative?” and we have 300,000 years of historical reference but no one seemingly can’t think outside the box. No wonder the planet is doomed.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
I for one do not want to be a hunter-gatherer especially at my age so I am in favor of spending the money to find ways for everyone to live well in a modern style without trashing the environment.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The problem is no one wants to be hunter-gatherer, everyone (me included) wants to be a landlord and get income to compel others to bring me what I need and want. It will be interesting to see what happens in the US when 70 million on SS and Medicare (1 out of 5 in America) become government subsidized “landlords” expecting people to be at their beck and call for food/care/energy/etc. US population growth is mostly coming from immigrants which come and do all the “hunter-gather” jobs no one else wants to do but what happens when they stop coming?
Smart money is starting to realize that this situation isn’t going to work out well and they are moving elsewhere. I will eventually be one of them just haven’t decided where…but it will be a place with plenty of hunter-gathers not rent collectors.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Retail say smart money. Institutionals never.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Problem with living with a bunch of hunter gatherers is that eventually you get hunted so they can gather your possessions. It’s like communism, but they just kill you and take your stuff.
MisterE
MisterE
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
I agree that most people do not want to be doing the legwork. The mindset needs to change. Americans need to respect people that create things, whether growing a food garden, or woodworking.
We are spending so much money now while our infrastructure crumbles. We can’t all sit around watching electronic screens. This can’t end well.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
humanity lived in balance with the earth
Gotta call BS on that one. From several angles.
1) The parts of the world humanity ate, burned, or otherwise used 10,000-plus years ago might disagree as to a proper balance.
2) Don’t confuse the early portions of an S curve with the middle. For that matter, don’t confuse the later portions of an S curve with the middle.
3) Consider a human fetus. Early-on enough, the brain might have “lived in balance with the earth” – its environment. But in the end the human brain is a massive energy gobbler not at all in balance with its “earth”. So, off with our heads! 🙂
Rbm
Rbm
3 years ago
Seems every country looks after its own interest except the us. Taxes tariffs etc. maybe we feel guilty as a nation to have so much/ government wants to lift other peoples up/ who ever has the most money can buy policy to protect interest/. or a combo of all.
My take is to place a tariff on all imports use the money for national healthcare and maybe make imports more expensive bring jobs back to us.
Roy
Roy
3 years ago
Jack,
If you are disappointed in the lifespan of your toaster, would you pay an extra $10 for one that would last twice as long?
Reality is that the lifespan of products has little to do with where they are made these days. It is a function of engineering.
We used to get cheap crap from Japan. Then Japan adopted statistical process control (Which forced US automakers to follow suit.) Then we got inferior products from China. Now, pretty much everywhere is implementing process controls that ensures a good (if not excellent) product. Gone is the inferior steel and other input materials. It has become too expensive to use them. High tech manufacturing is everywhere – especially in new factories being setup.
When a large entity (corporation/government) sets out to make toasters, they want the product to last long enough for their target consumer to buy another one of the same manufacturer. The engineers have a lifetime goal as a design criteria. There will be some deviation around this number. In this case it will be in number of operations, not years. And that number will be based upon studies/estimates of use, etc. The manufacturer doesn’t want the toaster to last forever. That would be worse for them than losing a few customers due to breaking too soon.
In regards to the landfill problem, we are slowly getting better at the reuse of materials. This being driven by both scarcity of landfill volumes and scarcity of materials. I do appreciate Zaroz’s humorous reply!
The best way to view the unregulated world is as billions of interacting control loops. Each loop is constantly searching for its perfect target. None ever get there. (That’s the way control loops work.) But if there is enough gain in the loop, it will converge within pretty close tolerances.
Government input will throw the process out of tolerance, at best, or make the entire system unstable.
Why then would anyone want to introduce these instabilities? Because there is no income stream for an otherwise useless or counterproductive controller who is otherwise quite intelligent. They must insert themselves into the process to survive. And… We must pay for their intrusion because we aren’t in a position to stop them.
Yooper
Yooper
3 years ago
Reply to  Roy
Wasn’t this known as “Planned obsolescence”
“In economics and industrial design, planned obsolescence is a policy of
planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life
or a purposely frail design, so that it becomes obsolete after a
certain pre-determined period of time upon which it decrementally
functions or suddenly ceases to function, or might be perceived as
unfashionable. The rationale behind this strategy is to generate
long-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases. It
is the deliberate shortening of a lifespan of a product to force people
to purchase functional replacements.”
Roy
Roy
3 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Yes.
WTFUSA
WTFUSA
3 years ago
Reply to  Roy
“We used to get cheap crap from Japan. Then Japan adopted statistical
process control (Which forced US automakers to follow suit.) Then we got
inferior products from China.”
You left out South Korea, which filled the gap between Japan and China. All three of these countries have the ability to manufacture high quality products, but their contracting masters (US corps) ensure that the products are cheaply made in order that the consumer has to replace the items about 10 minutes after the warranty expires (if it even has a warranty). Because of this the US public mistakenly blames the foreign manufacturers for subpar products. AKA built-in obsolescence by design.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  Roy
Planned obsolescence makes sense with toasters, but soon spreads into big ticket items like cars, washing machines, and then you have a problem.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
That makes me think of cardiac pacemaker implants.
Yooper
Yooper
3 years ago
Apologies, been a bit since I’ve posted… Is everything going through “moderators” now before it posts?
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
no one is
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Like I have said before, go to Walmart and look around. Within 5 years everything you are looking at will be in the dump.
The more you buy the more the dump fills.
Everything you buy is now diposable. Toasters used to last 5 years – now my toasters do not seem to last 2 years.
What a waste of energy and resources.
We have exported manufacturing and lowered costs but now I have to buy 2-3 units while in the past I would buy 1 unit.
A toaster is only a heating element – which should never break.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack

The end game is Wall-e

Rbm
Rbm
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
If something past forever you wont need to buy another one.
Yooper
Yooper
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
Exactly… What happened to,”same quality, only cheaper”? Lasted as long as the campaign by the Neo-liberal politicians (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama, etc) to get the globalist laws enacted.
My entire paternal family for a few generations are in Detroit. I started work as a Chem E process engineer for the TV manufacturers in the ’90’s. Spent a bit of time in the Carolinas for our clients. Watched as the local industries in SE MI and NW Ohio died along with the cities (as well as my job after NAFTA).
I can’t help but think there must be some nationalism to economics, too. NAFTA (along with exporting manufacturing) eliminated whole swaths of industries and jobs – and entire cities. Did the US consumer really need that extra $1 a tee-shirt to move the textile industry out of the Carolinas? All those families with an income before, now what, taking welfare and rotting away? Our economic policies directly created the biggest economic, political, and military threat the US now has with China – for “cheaper”‘ goods?
I thought it was Mish (it’s been so many years) that once wrote about what happened to Silicon Valley. It wasn’t just the chip manufacturing that was lost when it went overseas for more corp profits, it was the engineers, the process controls expertise, the quality control people, the infrastructure support for the factories, the supply chain logistics expertise, the machine fabrication skills. All gone. Detroit, the textiles, the same thing. And we complain that we don’t actually produce wealth anymore in this “service economy”.
I enjoyed the global movement of money discussions Mish talks about, and I understand the US must have the printed money flow somewhere. First Europe (Germany), then Japan, then China, now??? The idea that we should be helping 3rd world workers ignored the fact we cannot, and shouldn’t, put them above the people at home that would be better off with a career providing for their families and our cities. It’s like the power of simple math when we hear people try to help the world through immigration – “Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
What’s happening to the United States and it’s dollar is exactly what happened to Great Britain and it’s pound and for the same reasons. Could it possibly be the banks?
Klemke99
Klemke99
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
If you want to talk toasters, I am currently using one made by Sunbeam in the US in the year of my birth, 1953. Best toaster I have ever owned. I plan to pass it on when I die.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
I dunno. My 15 year old $8 Walmart toaster is just starting to get a bit tired, but works fine.

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