Kids in Montana filed a lawsuit against state law based on environmental stress. They won.
Is Carbon Dioxide a Pollutant?
The Montana Supreme Court’s sided with 16 kids who filed a suit in 2020 claiming climate change caused them severe stress and anxiety.
Please consider Global Warming Can’t be Ignored, says Montana’s top court.
Montana’s Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a landmark climate ruling that said the state was violating residents’ constitutional right to a clean environment by permitting oil, gas and coal projects without regard for global warming.
The justices, in a 6-1 ruling, rejected the state’s argument that greenhouse gases released from Montana fossil fuel projects are minuscule on a global scale and reducing them would have no effect on climate change, likening it to asking: “If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?”
The plaintiffs can enforce their environmental rights “without requiring everyone else to stop jumping off bridges or adding fuel to the fire,” Chief Justice Mike McGrath wrote for the majority. “Otherwise the right to a clean and healthful environment is meaningless.”
Going forward, Montana must “carefully assess the greenhouse gas emissions and climate impacts of all future fossil fuel permits,” said Melissa Hornbein, an attorney with the Western Environmental Law Center and attorney for the plaintiffs.
Republican Gov. Greg Gianforte said the state was still reviewing the decision, but warned of “perpetual lawsuits that will waste taxpayer dollars and drive up energy bills for hardworking Montanans.”
“This decision does nothing more than declare open season on Montana’s all-of-the-above approach to energy,” he said, which promotes using both fossil fuels and renewables.
Montana’s Constitution requires agencies to “maintain and improve” a clean environment. A law signed by Gianforte last year said environmental reviews may not consider climate impacts unless the federal government makes carbon dioxide a regulated pollutant. The Montana Supreme Court’s ruling found that law to be unconstitutional.
Montana contributes less than less than ½ of one percent of global carbon dioxide emissions.
Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant in the first place. It’s necessary for plant life and the entire food chain.
More Dependence on China
A huge irony in this madness is the push towards clean energy makes us more dependent on batteries.
Over 80 percent of the minerals needed for the batteries are mined or refined in China.
China is still building coal-fired plants for the electricity to refine the minerals. And the refining process itself is extremely messy.
Poisoning Austin’s Water
On December 5, I asked Dear Elon Musk, You Are Worth $333 Billion, Why Are You Poisoning Austin’s Water?
Musk is not a champion of the environment. And Tesla is a massive polluter.
Meanwhile …
November 21, 2014: China’s Puts Export Curbs on Minerals US Needs for Weapons and Technology
In a warning shot to the Trump administration, China tightens export controls on some dual-use minerals.
December 3, 2024: China Halts Rare Exports Used by US Technology Companies and the Military
The kids won a victory to delay natural gas production with pathetic legal challenges making us more dependent on China.
And the bottom line is more dependence on China and more pollution for their effort when the only byproduct of natural gas is carbon dioxide and water.
Congratulations!?
Battery production already generates 40% of PFAS. I rather have some more CO2.
Mental illness > environmental catastrophes
These kids’ parents have ruined them.
Saying that CO2 is not a pollutant is like saying that table salt is not a poison. For both, not in the normal amounts, but enough of it can cause very major problems. In short, you are getting hung up on the word, instead of trying to absorb the idea.
Idiocracy becomes the norm as Californians flee to other states. We need a fence, asap.
The good news, though; plants crave Brawndo with electrolytes, not C02
Decision supported by Billionaire NIMBY policy.
So climate change stressed them out but nuclear weapons and never-ending wars are cool, I guess.
Please go to JoNova and start reading. Nothing the green agenda is doing will work. CO2 and methane don’t cause global warming. It is all a government subsidy sham designed to give “climate” research and projects almost direct access to tax dollars.
And 10% for President Moron’s pardons and commutations.
Want to bet that these kids will claim stress if tic tok is banned.
Utter bullshit. Let’s all give up the keys to our cars and return to the Middle Ages. We can go back to walking and work within three miles of home. That’s what these green flies really want.
Ah, glad you’re ready for the C40 plan. /s
It’s Middle Ages plus unlimited streaming.
https://www.c40.org/news/new-research-shows-how-urban-consumption-drives-global-emissions/
Nothing will actually happen. The ruling says “carefully assess the greenhouse gas emissions and climate impacts of all future fossil fuel permits”.
Note it doesn’t say you have to reject any of them if they happen to pollute more than X amount. It simply says you have to asses the impacts. The rubber meeting the road is when a court attempts to define a ‘specific amount you can’t exceed’. Any local or even state court that attempts to do so will get sent to the supreme court in a nano-second to determine if it’s legal for courts to make such rulings. My guess is no judge is going to feel qualified to make such a ruling.
So it will just do what the governor says, delay projects due to court filings but not actually stop them.
Many delayed projects might end up being cancelled as what investor or lender wants to risk possible delays and court challenges that will add to a projects cost.
And how did “kids” afford the legal costs of this case? More likely they are just pawns in a lefties/greenie attack.
Hope those kids end up unemployed when jobs leave that state and that they freeze to death in a Montana winter when they can’t afford the limited gas that ends up being drilled.
On another note liberals killed another innocent woman as she was burned alive in NYC by an illegal. Is that a crime Mish? You ok with deporting this one?
You do not deport this criminal. You dig a hole put a metal box in the hole, place criminal in the box, weld lid to box, cover the hole. Yeah I’m a left leaning person that can think.
Instead, we enable. But sure, the environment is the biggest issue.
You left out the best part. Having ignited the woman, the immigrant sat by and watched her burn.
A careful examination of the physics of global warming will show that there is no measurable effect that can be expected from, for instance, the doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration. The absorption bands are already saturated. This is not complicated.
The ridiculous prognostications by businesses entrenched in the global warming catastrophe biz are worthless. The IPCC has never claimed any major effect on global atmospheric temperature in the next few centuries. The “crisis” these children are worried about arises only in the minds of financial beneficiaries and the slavish media. I hope these young people grow up and go to university to learn how the world actually works and stop their attention grabbing activities based on arguments and fears that have no basis in science, observation or history.
If the greenhouse gas concentration were to approach zero on Earth, the temperature of the air would rise rapidly to over 100 degrees C as the atmosphere continued to be heated by the surface and lost its ability to cool by radiation. Let them ponder that for a while and consider a career in which real science was applied to the real world.
I think you’re right about CO2 saturation overall, but I expect the altitude at which the energy is transported makes a difference in how the atmosphere functions, and doubling CO2 will absolutely change that altitude range.
More importantly, CO2 in high concentrations is toxic to animals including humans. Doubling CO2 from current levels would begin to unleash those toxicity effects. Tripling CO2 might well be fatal to human civilization. Fortunately the CO2 growth rate is not all that fast, but fossil fuel consumption does need to be restrained. Nuclear (with sensible improvements) is vital, as is stabilizing global population (in a humane way).
“More importantly, CO2 in high concentrations is toxic to animals including humans.”
Yes but what are the symptoms of different levels of exposure according to OSHA?
5,000 ppm (0.5%) OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit
10,000 ppm (1.0%) Typically no effects, possible drowsiness
15,000 ppm (1.5%) Mild respiratory stimulation for some people
30,000 ppm (3.0%) Moderate respiratory stimulation, increased heart rate and blood pressure
40,000 ppm (4.0%) Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health
50,000 ppm (5.0%) Strong respiratory stimulation, dizziness, confusion, headache, shortness of breath
80,000 ppm (8.0%) Dimmed sight, sweating, tremor, unconsciousness, and possible death
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/2020-08/Carbon-Dioxide.pdf
40,000 ppm approx concentration of breathing out ?
whoa there, university is the last place you want to send your kids to learn how the world actually works.
If anything university will turn these mildly stressed kids into despotic frantic adults gluing their hands to roads screaming “how dare you”
People could learn a lot from Dr. Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace. Please do yourself a favor and read his books or watch his youtube videos.
Higher co2 levels would actually benefit all mankind, so would global warming. In fact, temperature and co2 are not even correlated.
I may have posted this before. If so, too bad. FYI, critical thinking begins with open minds. Calling nonbelievers ‘climate deniers’ is therefore indicative of…?
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/sunlight-and-clouds-not-co2-drive-earths-climate-new-study-finds-5719394?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=ZeroHedge
If it is behind a paywall, try here:
https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/sunlight-and-clouds-not-co2-drive-earths-climate-shocking-new-study-finds
Failing that, google ‘Nikolov and Zeller’
This ruling is literal insanity and a license for lawfare that destroys the liberty and welfare of Montanans.
I suppose the sure response would be for Montanans to amend the state constitution. Or, if possible, replace all these deranged justices with those with common sense.
Instead of worrying about actual toxins like glyphosate, forever chemicals, and other things directly affecting people’s health these ‘kids’ are feeling ‘stressed over CO2. Well young people are nothing if not morons generally.
Didn’t need to type young. Most people are morons according to Carlin.
“Forever” chemicals are generally inert, otherwise they would decompose. Not reacting with most other chemicals means they’re generally safe.
The reason the popular media pushes the narrative of kids being the future and giving them so much credit is because they are stupid and gullible. We went from ‘father knows best’ to now kids are constantly shown to ‘kidsplain’ to their bumbling parents.
“Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant in the first place.”
Nothing is a pollutant in small enough concentrations. But in high enough concentrations and appropriate contexts, anything can be harmful.
Yep, water and water vapor are especially dangerous. Government better regulate water and water vapor emissions!
They already do. Musk was fined for having water at a rocket launch.
Does anyone wonder when Elon will cease being a punching bag for every demented Democrat? Answer: When DOGE finishes its work.
There should be lawsuits over the $37 trillion federal debt. A fiscal disaster.
Not lawsuits. Constitutional amendment for balanced budget … possibly with allowance for a pre-saved strategic monetary reserve as a so to Keynesians.
Toss in term limits as a booster…
As a first step, perhaps the luminaries on the Montana court could fire the governor, dismiss the legislature, and clean up the state themselves.
That lawsuit was not filed by “kids.”
Stephen Miran nominated to head the CEAhttps://x.com/SteveMiran
Yeah, and we’re about to go on a BS reshoring exercise which will be tied up in courts like the stupid Montana court while China eats our economic lunch. At least half of these kids will end up working at kiosks in the mall, but only so long as US consumers have the ability to buy crap from kiosks at the mall. Then, they will be on welfare. Luckily, they won’t be able to afford to drive, so they won’t be producing carbon in their cars. Paraphrasing.Dick Armey, environmentalist are like Democrats — they love humanity but hate human beings.
Wow Mish, your comments on carbon dioxide are TOTALLY ill-informed. This is such a cursory shallow take.
It is the EVER RISING CONCENTRATION of carbin dioxide that traps rediating heat, etc from radiating away from the earth. Thus the rising temperatures.
“Carbon Cycle:
Frankly, for the past 20-odd years, APAC and India are the dominant polluters and will be for the foreseeable future.
NOTHING the US does will impede that, and before some doomsayer says,”well per capita” blah blah, the global ecosystem doesn’t friggin’ care about per capita, only total emissions, and the biggest bad guy is not the US.
Here in the US, I’m all for shutting down any company that pollutes our land, water, and air, but this CO2 stuff is a fool’s errand.
Since the latest global climate summit, which created tons of hot air, India alone added 100 million to world population. North American population grew only through Biden-Turdhole open border policies.
Intelligent life is hard to find.
I’ve been telling everyone doesn’t matter what we do….China India open 10 coal fired plants for everyone we close….my wife says shouldn’t we try…I tell her no won’t make any difference….why suffer outrageous energy bills to virtue signal and nothing more…
Who fucking cares?
Very astute analysis…lol…correct all the same in a crass end game
I care because I suspect he is fundamentally wrong.
See here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317570648_New_Insights_on_the_Physical_Nature_of_the_Atmospheric_Greenhouse_Effect_Deduced_from_an_Empirical_Planetary_Temperature_Model
The Lords of the soon to be climate catastrophe crowd like Taylor Swift , Al Gore , John Kerry and Leonard Dicaprio continue to spew thousands of times more C02 into the atmosphere than the average earthly inhabitant while preaching that C02 will destroy life as we know it in the very near future . They fly around in their private jets, own huge yahts and live in their many 10000 square foot mansions and have no intentions of sacrificing their wasteful lifestyle as they preach to the masses about sacrifice and need to save the planet all while their carbon footprint is the size of King Kong . The very definition of hypocrite
Re “ It is the EVER RISING CONCENTRATION of carbin dioxide that traps rediating heat”
No, it is not. CO2 absorbs infrared radiation in certain wavelength bands (“colors” in an infrared sense). There’s already enough CO2 in the atmosphere that adding more does not change the atmosphere’s absorption in those bands at all. At this point rising CO2 isn’t increasing the greenhouse effect, just changing where in the atmosphere (what altitude) the absorption takes place.
Nah,
All that extra CO2 in the atmosphere has been caused by humans breathing for the past 5000 years. All those billions of people breathing in oxygen and exhaling CO2…..
You are obviously intelligent and well-educated. I challenge you to read the following article and identify its errors.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317570648_New_Insights_on_the_Physical_Nature_of_the_Atmospheric_Greenhouse_Effect_Deduced_from_an_Empirical_Planetary_Temperature_Model
“…ruling that said the state was violating residents’ constitutional right to a clean environment by permitting oil, gas and coal projects without regard for global warming.”
Where is that written in the Constitution? If they have a constitutional right to a clean environment, all oil, gas, coal, should be shut down, period. Let the kids learn what that feels like. Let the state supreme court learn what that feels like. No more playing political games.
Perhaps the solution is for Montanas government to remove all air conditioners, fans and heaters from the courthouse building and let those judges sweat and freeze with the seasons as those devices energy demands add to the CO2 levels. Stupid court rulings should have consequences.
So the Montana SC has gone woke. Damn!
Let’s hope there’s not a huge rare earth metals find in the state.
If so, these stressed climate change kids would have us continue to be slaves of China.
Mish, I would argue that at least some of what you are complaining about with Tesla puts you on the same side as these kids and Montana Supreme Court.
The WSJ article is intended to scare people about Tesla who aren’t going to know what they are talking about when it comes to water quality. The pH, sulfuric acid, and nitric acid sound scary but having them blended with other waters and then treated by the municipality is not a big deal. There are other items that could be bad or ok, but they don’t provide enough details to judge, so I am going to assume it is more scaremongering.
You raise concerns about China, but one factor that has shifted production out of the US and into countries like China is this type overboard environmentalism.
The biggest factor is neoliberalism fallacy and corporatism, not the environmental protections here in the US
“The Montana Supreme Court’s sided with 16 kids who filed a suit in 2020 claiming climate change caused them severe stress and anxiety.”
Net Zero tyranny is causing people severe stress and anxiety. Dutch farmers being told they can’t any more. Fears of Net Zero driven power shortages, etc.
Did the court spell out what the criteria levels for CO2 were that are low enough not to cause anxiety?
Whup ti do. This is meaningless ruling.
So Montana must now include another level of oversight in a approval process.
If you told those kids that their cell-phones would be outlawed because of CO2 & fossil fuels, they’d all keel over and croak. “Oh, the humanity”
Water is essential for life; too much water will kill you. Same for CO2. That was a good decision by the Montana Supreme Court.
next up: Montana supreme court bans water.
Public access to water is becoming an issue in Montana as it fills up with out of state transplants.
Nope, they won’t ban water. They’ll ban dihydrogen monoxide, a scary killer and pollutant.
Don’t call it water, call it DiHydrogen Monoxide to make it sound scary.
Who paid for their lawyers?
That would be the only news worthy story here
*cough* Soros *cough*
You just know he did.
Or Gates, Bloomberg, etc … aka the $$-squad.
What is it that these kids want?
Has someone described the ideal energy future that can be built to replace what we have now?
If it has been described, can it be built?
If not, why not?
Just asking.
Methane leaks out un-burnt in the process of sourcing, distribution and use and it retains heat more than Co2. One of the weaknesses of our culture is that common sense and the reading of some information is deemed to be accurate enough. Sorry to say but at least one year of college chemistry, biological sciences, and a lot of fieldwork in geology or some related science with real hands on experience, and some touring of mines, energy faculties, and factories is much more than the inadequate ‘common sense”.
I speak from all those experiences. Co2 may not be a classical poison but like water which is not a classical pollutant, if you drink too much of it some serious illness will result.
As for Elon he is a master at lying. You are correct to ask where are all the metals for the current level of technology of batteries comes from and at what energy cost?
I was building my own micro EV with the mentorship of a fellow who was the first to win his electric car in drag races against ICE cars. One day a very young man who was one of the first employees of Tesla showed up at my mentors workshop. I was building up cell by cell a non explosive A123 cells into a large battery for my recumbent. So I asked him what cell chemistry Tesla was going to use and he said thousands of the the (explosive) small lithium ion batteries in each car because they are cheap. I was appalled. Elon jumped ahead before battery technology was really a valid way to go and the people here in Silicon Valley were none the wiser and jumped right on to Elon’s hype.
Another example of getting the science wrong is that C02 does not cause planetary heat retention in the same way that glass on a greenhouse does through differential refraction index and wavelength shift. Co2 has what is known in physics as a higher specific heat. That matters because heat is a measure of energy storage not temperature. The temperature rise can happen later when the storage gets converted by geophysical processes into temperature.
So back to my original statement it is easy to have a logical commentary but difficult to have an accurate one without the background that is more than just some reading. Common sense is a current flaw of democracy, or a democratic republic but I do not know of a better system and so thanks for keeping on with the posts and discussions that are unusually perceptive despite some occasional details missed.
So you want regulations on every natural substance? Do you appreciate that natural processes generate those substances in quantities humans do not understand? Such regulation is actually antihuman, it is making human life “illegal” as the natural world produces substances that are unlawful for humans to use or produce.
Every? You said that. Not me. And I said nothing about if there should be regulations. I would like to see more people getting more than just jumping to conclusions and more people doing chemistry labs, geological fieldwork experience, and tours of various industry clubs such as the American Mechanical Engineers Society to factories, mines, and energy facilities. Those are good conservative educational cornerstones so I think you misunderstand my post. Personally I ran a rock quarry and then you fly off and assume I want more regulations. Re read my post.
Lots of things that are beneficial in small amounts are toxic or harmful if there’s too much, so I’d say calling CO2 a pollutant isn’t out of line.
Montana generates 1/2 of 1% of global emissions all by itself? That’s INSANE. There are only about a million people in the entire freaking state! So for a population that is 1/8,000 of the globe, they’re managing 1/200 of the CO2? Punching above their weight!
That all said, we have collectively decided to run the “let’s add lots of CO2 to the atmosphere and see what happens” geoengineering trial. Presumably those Montana kids get driven to soccer practice and take hot showers just like everyone else. So it’s not clear to me how this ruling plays out. Carbon tax?
he wrote less than half of 1%. Did not specify how much less.
When will people understand that there is no such thing as clean energy.
C02 was the first and last mistake by environmentalists. IT IS HEAVY METALS & Mercury, and the other pollutants used to FRACK that is really a concern.
If you have lived near a Coal plant, and we have, you will know all about Coat Dust settling on your cars, roofs and so on that are truly amazing that it is allowed. My grandpa and grandma BOTH dies of lung disease from being near a plant and their settlement was $986 per death.
Who downvotes this? It’s a fact. Here in PA, yes, fracking fluids and hiding the investors from fracking damages and pollution through layers of LLCs IS A HUGE PROBLEM.
The trees and plants need CO2. Let them do their job naturally.
Veneer kkk that should go over like a wet balloon in Österreich. Nicht lustig! Sie müssen ein Pifke sein.
When are the Gores, Gretas & Kerrys getting sued for distressing/triggering young impressionable minds leading them to believe the sky is falling? Also who is putting the numbskulls and moosebrains on the Montana Supreme Court? Apologies to the moose, they have more sense than the students and the judges.
If the Montana snowflakes think “climate change” is distressing, wait til they try to raise little snots like them.
Why don’t they sue the PRC? They are by far the largest polluters and producers of GHG’s in the world?
Too late Montana, you’ve let in too many Kali Kooks.
My wife & I have vacationed in NW Montana for the past 35 years…absolutely gorgeous area. It has gotten extremely popular since Covid. Many Californians, amongst others, have relocated there. Real-estate prices have soared. Many MT natives can no longer afford to buy a house. I recently read about family-owned sawmill in Missoula that is shutting down. The mill cannot pay wages required to retain employees and remain competitive in the lumber business. Employees cannot afford homes in the Missoula area at their current wage rates. The sawmill had been in operation for more than 100 years and 3 generations of family members.
Future News Headline: Starvation caused by lack of plant growth due to lack of essential plant nutrient. In other news, Farmer lobby to use diesel tractors to increase plant growth due to plant oxygen posioning.
Humans developed agriculture 10,000 years ago. During that entire time, CO2 levels were a steady 280 ppm and the expansion of crops at those CO2 levels allowed our population to grow from 1 million to 8 billion. In the last 200 years we have increased CO2 levels from 280 ppm to 425 ppm. You don’t need to be concerned about plants lacking enough CO2. They are already getting 50% more than they did for the last 10,000 years.
The state should have at least pointed out the plaintiffs generate CO2 when they breathe, release CO2 every time they use electronic devices for entertainment, and used carbon emitting vehicles to get to court.
The plus side is none of my modest oil and gas investments have operations in Montana. This is a small net positive for investors with companies not operating in crazy town.
Children Cry, so shred the constitution, deindustrialize and destroy the world, huh? More importantly, the Montana GOP establishment did NOT fight this, according to Montana Scientist Dr. Ed Berry, author of “Climate Miracle”. He’s always been worth reading.
The parents will champion their children’s actions, and let’s hope they have to pay dearly. I’m tired of all this stupidity.
All kinds of things cause me stress and anxiety. Let’s start with my county permitting and inspections departments. Can I sue and make them go away so that I can do my job? People saying absolutely brain-dead things on social media … can I sue to have them removed at my command? Let’s start with these, but I’m sure that there will be more. If these kids can have a stress free life from perceived stressors … then I should too right? If not .. I’ll sue.
So fucking dumb. The kids are not alright.
The kids are usually as stupid as their schools and colleges make them. And sometimes the parents too contribute to that.
I suspect Bozeman and the california influx had a lot to do with this. Trump wants to build a wall on the wrong border. Start with california and then move on to mexico.