Nancy Pelosi Says a Wealth Tax on Billionaires’ Unrealized Gains is On the Way

Sinema OKs a Tax on Unrealized Gains

In the scramble to find a tax hike that all 50 Democrat Senators could support, Senator Kyrsten Sinema OKs a Tax on Billionaires’ Unrealized Gains.

A new annual tax on billionaires’ unrealized capital gains is likely to be included to help pay for the vast social policy and climate package lawmakers hope to finalize this week, senior Democrats said Sunday.

We probably will have a wealth tax,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) said Sunday on CNN, noting that Senate Democrats were still working on their proposal, which isn’t technically a wealth tax but bears a strong resemblance to that idea.

The proposal under consideration from Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden (D., Ore.) would impose an annual tax on unrealized capital gains on liquid assets held by billionaires, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Sunday on CNN.

I wouldn’t call that a wealth tax, but it would help get at capital gains, which are an extraordinarily large part of the incomes of the wealthiest individuals and right now escape taxation until they’re realized,” Ms. Yellen said.

The tax is expected to affect people with $1 billion in assets or $100 million in income for three consecutive years, according to a person familiar with the discussions. The idea, for which President Biden recently expressed support after excluding it from his campaign plans and administration agenda, would affect a narrower group of people than the capital-gains changes that have already flopped among congressional Democrats.

A spokeswoman for Ms. Sinema said Friday that she was working with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), who has pushed for an annual tax on the wealthiest Americans’ assets. That wealth tax that Ms. Warren talked about during her presidential campaign would have applied to all assets held by the wealthy. The proposal under consideration, in contrast, would focus on unrealized capital gains and it is expected to include a one-time tax on gains to date. That means a tech-company founder with $5 billion, almost all of which is unrealized gains, would be taxed more heavily than someone who just inherited $5 billion and has no unrealized gains under the tax code.

“I think it’s likely. I’m pushing hard,” Ms. Warren said Sunday on MSNBC of raising taxes on billionaires.

Yellen More Careful Than Pelosi

Senators Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin objected to hikes in marginal rates so this appears to be the default option. 

Treasury Secretary Yellen was far more careful in her wording than Pelosi. The reason being that a wealth tax is likely to be found unconstitutional. 

Q: Is this a wealth tax? 
A: My guess is no because it’s a tax on gains, not wealth. 

The proposal by Senator Elizabeth Warren is a genuine wealth tax and easily could be tossed by the Supreme Court.  Warren obviously does not give a damn. 

Regardless, expect legal challenges based on the 16th Amendment.

The proposal taxes unrealized gains. But is there “income” before gains are realized? The courts will decide if this goes forward, but the idea is dubious at best.

Funding Shortfall

The proposal will likely affect fewer than 1,000 of the wealthiest U.S. taxpayers. Can that possibly cover $2 trillion in spending?

No chance. 

Mrs. Pelosi said the tax on billionaires’ assets would likely generate somewhere between $200 billion and $250 billion in revenue over 10 years.

What’s Next?

Assuming Joe Manchin holds firm at limiting spending to $1.5 trillion as opposed to the $2 trillion numbers sloshing around, Democrats “only” have to find agreement on another $1.25 trillion.

Hang On To Your Wallets

A friend commented: 

Hang on to your wallets. This is how the original income tax was shackled to us. The original tax in 1913 applied only to the super wealthy and topped out at 7%. The average American would never be taxed.

We all know how that worked out. We will all be paying on unrealized gains before the decade is out.

Also recall that big gains on December 31, 1999 would have been big losses by the first months into next year (and about ten years for the Nasdaq to get back to where it was). But a tax would have been assessed for 1999. 

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Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Without unrealized losses a tax on unrealized gains would just about define unfair
But of course these people think stocks and assets can only go up.
Losses and inflation accounting would make it an administrative nightmare
In ancient times, interest was referred to as “calving”, since it could only be paid from growth (of heads of cattle, hence capital, ‘heads’).
Taxes on wealth were always considered to be a tax on the usufruct of the land (the only important capital then).
The actual yield of the land was assumed, since if you could not exploit it to advantage, you could sell it or lease it to people who would produce a yield.
Taxes on capital formation are daft.
I am all for a lot of tax reforms and chaning the rules of play  (e.g., get rid of interest deductions which favor debt financing; taxing the social/market value of land; and many other measures) and am no fan of  ‘capitalism’. But confiscating wealth just seems like confusing the cart of the horse.
Portlander2
Portlander2
4 years ago
Mish, the ABA says a wealth tax is Constitutional. It says that the founders believed a wealth tax could become necessary, particularly to ensure the means to “provide for the Common Defense.” The founders knew that future wars might require extreme measures to raise funds. Well, we’ve had lots of expensive wars recently, haven’t we?
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
When calculating these “unrealized gains,” will we be able to deduct for inflation?  Whose index can we use?  Or must we get three different sources and take the middle index?  How many months of each year will we spend doing these calculations?  How much wasted money?
This is going to be a fun one.  Progressives pooping all over themselves to implement something they have screamed about on the campaign trail for years.
They fail to understand that the billionaires are their friends.  The billionaires are the ones funding their Progressive agenda at all levels. 
Tech billionaires are all on the phone right now with their “elected” representatives, demanding to understand why their millions haven’t purchased adequate protection!  “I was there for you!” will probably be heard a few times this week.
I am torn.  On one hand I want to see the billionaires eaten, because they thought that their money would pay for enough time and protection to get eaten last.  On the other hand, I agree with the article in that it starts here, but pretty soon I will be haggling with my CPA on “unrealized gains” in my portfolio.  What a pain in the arse!
Note something very interesting, though, that I caught in the article:  it is unrealized gains on “liquid” assets.  That would mean listed stocks, bonds, crypto, currencies, metals, commodities — anything tradeable.  But NOT private, unlisted businesses, farms or just about anything closely held.
More and more I’m thinking that I can get behind this.  Take ALL of it from them, and teach them a lesson about getting into bed with Progressives.
I like it. 
Dave_in_CT
Dave_in_CT
4 years ago
This will only fly if the government gives a tax credit on unrealized losses. It has to work both ways or it doesn’t work at all; otherwise it’s simple confiscation of property.  And what happens when gains and losses reverse? How will that be handled? It will take an army of accountants just to keep track of the quarterly changes. The whole thing is unworkable.  Maybe what the democrats really want is to just shoot the billionaires and take all their property for themselves…  that seemed to work just fine for Mao.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave_in_CT
They might handle losses the same way as capital losses–deduct over a period of say five years against unrealized gains. IRS will come out way ahead
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Come on. Pelosi’s success in fundraising and her position as speaker came about from her contacts with the ultra rich in the Valley. They are not going to go for a tax like that ever. She is just politicking as usual. Nothing will come of it.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Perhaps they are floating options to get the BBB passed and to quieten the masses. Remember this is the party that tried to impeach Trump for doing the right thing when the DOJ and State Department looked the other way–Hunter Biden’s NOT-discredited laptop to proved that.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I think it’s simpler than that. Nancy is very old and mentally she is showing it. She comes up with something everyone can see through and thinks people people will swallow it. She is not going to out do Bernie Sanders because Bernie already owns it.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Now what will The Fed will do, now that get this backdoor to even more directly funding government; via ever more asset pumping; opens up….. And what will that do to the relative fortunes of the wealthy….. ?
Still, all the while: The dumb and naive retards cheering for the AOCs of the world, will likely believe the government becoming MORE dependent on the wealthy gaining ever more wealth; will somehow result in that same government “fighting for the poor…” by taking wealth AWAY form those same wealthies…. You could not dream up greater depths of stupidity and naivetè, even if you tried…..
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
….some kind of a ‘patrimony tax’ applied by some european countries like Spain France , The Netherlands etc looks fair to me…
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
I HATE limited editing time !  I wanted to add that printing money to keep lala land afloat is not a sustainable option either , something will have to give, the increasing number of decadent fn billionaires and 9 figures priveleged  ones can afford it can they not ?  They even won’ t have to give up on their private jet(s) or luxury yachts, will they ?
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
it’s not sustainable, but taxing a handful of billionaires won’t make a difference. They’ll just spend more than they would otherwise. The problem is on the spending side, not the taxing side.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
This was on the cards before the 2020 election, and was going to happen without the Build Back rip-off; for example, to pay for the Green rip-off. It is just  a matter of time (and lobbying) before the unrealized gain/ taxing wealth limit drops to a million-dollar threshold.
Voter’s remorse yet. anyone?
DennisAOK
DennisAOK
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
No, because I didn’t vote for Biden. 
TCW
TCW
4 years ago
So if all the billionaires have to sell Amazon to pay the tax it will be better to be the last to sell since each one before them will be driving the price down.  I just don’t see how this is feasible.
.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  TCW
The billionaires don’t all own amazon stock. Almost all own stock in the companies they started or their parents started.
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years ago
If you are paying taxes on assets like stocks, then what’s to stop them from taxing your unrealized gain in a house or real estate.
The price of a stock could lose 20% in one day. What day are they going to choose? 
This could trigger, if it expands to everyone, massive deflationary pressures on assets since you have to dump them to pay the tax. 
Why doesn’t the Treasury just tax/steal a % of your stocks. Then you don’t have to sell,/get dollars for taxes.
Most rich people don’t have a ton of liquidity -they just own stuff. So now stuff has to be sold for liquidity and there will be a run on dollars
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
Most stock are liquid. Real estate isn’t. It will likely be based off the closing price at end of year. Expect a lot of shenanigans on 12/31. Will make witching days seem like holiday trading.
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
well if you tax unrealized gains you might have to sell a portion to pay the tax . Mass end of the year selling ? Seems that this proposal “front runs”/pushes forward tax on asset gains .  so say goodbye to tax deferred shelters .   pay me now,, not later . 
dmartin
dmartin
4 years ago
And people cry foul at the idea of “common prosperity” in China saying its an attack on capitalism and the wealthy. What the hell is so different here in America between  what the Communists in China are doing verse what the Democrats are doing here in America? LOL
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
Reply to  dmartin
Bingo.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
I wonder how this will work with options. Many of the very rich get options to buy the stock at very low prices which they can exercise when they want them. Those options are unrealized gains but they are not stock gains per say because they aren’t stock yet. So will those be taxed and if not, clearly that’s the way things will go immediately.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Options have a closing price too.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
They do, but they aren’t the same as stocks since you have to exercise the option in order to acquire the asset and reap the value.
So it will be interesting if they are included or not.
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
It doesn’t matter.  It is a “liquid asset.”  It would be taxed, because even the “right to” is recognized as having liquidated value.  You will pay on the gains.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago

“The proposal will likely affect fewer than 1,000 of the wealthiest U.S. taxpayers.”

Please.  Even if enacted, does ANYONE think a billionaire will pay?  There will be loopholes … and an army of accountants to exploit them.  Anyways, capital is liquid and will move.  Might have to give up citizenship, but do you think they care??
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
“Nancy Pelosi Says a Wealth Tax on Billionaires’ Unrealized Gains is On the Way”
The guy in the street thinking “why set threshold so high … why not lower it to include “only” the really really really rich, too? … say $100 million?”
“As of 2021, Nancy Pelosi’s net worth is estimated to be roughly $120 million.”
Oh, OK …
shamrock
shamrock
4 years ago
Only $200 to $250b in 10 years?  Back of the hand, the richest 10 people in the U.S. are combined worth over $1T, if you somehow managed to get 2% of that each year that would be $200b right there.  That’s just 10 people!
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
But you won’t get 2% a year. It’s only on gains. So in year 1, you pay 2%. In year 2, if the stock doesn’t move in value, you don’t pay anything because you already paid the gains on the stock last year. They only owe on new unrealized gains.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The first year, they would pay on the value since the shares were assigned at no cost. After that, they would pay on the gains.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Probably not assigned at 0. Most have some initial value assigned to them at IPO time, including grants that came from what the company was worth (ie value of their physical assets + cash + trademarks etc).
In year 1 they pay on the gains from the initial IPO/Grant price as you said. Then then pay on the gains. But there are many years stock go nowhere or even down. In those years they would pay nothing and may get a tax refund if shares go down (to be determined). Hence they won’t be getting 2% (or whatever percentage) a year like clockwork.
shamrock
shamrock
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Yeah, I don’t know how it will work but if the full amount of the gains are taxed at 20% over a 10 year period that’s 2%/year.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
You can’t work it that way because in the intervening 10 years you have no idea where the stock could be. It could easily be worth double or zero. So whatever tax (2 or 20%) has to be paid then and there, not over 10 years.
One-armed Economist
One-armed Economist
4 years ago
People need some accounting education here: It IS a REALIZED GAIN if it’s happened. It is a RECOGNIZED GAIN when it is sold.
Therefore it IS a REALIZED GAIN or it  would not have anything to tax – it’s just not a recognized gain b/e it has not been sold (and locked in).
There’s a important distinction to know.
anoop
anoop
4 years ago
we need a new financial crisis asap so that some new radical measures can be passed without resistance.  i have a feeling it will happen within the next year.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
OT…while playing with my new screening tool yesterday looking for a few undervalued miners, I ran across a couple of charts that looked pretty good for a long swing trade. It’s probably a little early, by cycle trading rules….but I might put a toe in the water on CXB and/or NGD. I’ve decided to hold a few small positions in miners as a proxy for owning gold…..just for the moment….and not a huge stake. I bought a starter in GROY, which is a more highly speculative lottery ticket…..but these other two are undervalued by my math…and the charts look interesting. FYI.
Gold had a good week last week, but there was bearish reversal on Friday. I’m waiting to see which way gold spot is headed.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’m planning to add a starter in EPD to the energy portfolio. I also had a lot of fun yesterday running my entire 22 stock portfolio through my new fundamental value screener…..it was an interesting exercise, and I now have a better feel for which positions to build for the long haul. Not weeding anything out right now, though. 
numike
numike
4 years ago
What may happen when central banks wake up to more persistent inflation? https://voxeu.org/article/what-may-happen-when-central-banks-wake-more-persistent-inflation
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  numike
What will happen then, is they’ll just change the way they portend to “calculate” what the dupes and idiots listening to them is told has something in common with inflation.
Nothing new here. Just the same old dystopia.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Even if passed, which I doubt, it will just push tax collection forward. The cost basis will go up in amount equivalent to what they’re taxed on. And what about capital losses? Currently you can only deduct up to $3k/yr. Is that going to change?
ed_retired_actuary
ed_retired_actuary
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Much of capital gains escapes taxation entirely, through step=up in basis to estates on death, charitable donation (including donation of appreciated assets), and perhaps other tricks.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
The stepped-up basis is under attack in the Biden tax plan. Interestingly, it looks like assets held in trust will still escape taxation, under the proposed changes. That seems to be the case from what I read anyway.
dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
This is going to be a complicated http://mess.So, let’s say Mr. Billionaire gets hit with this next year.  He has 50 billion in his start up (let’s say Amazon).  He must sell 2 billion worth of stock to pay the tax, since all 50 billion is unrealized gains in 2022.
In 2023 there is a massive recession and Amazon loses 3/4’s of it’s value, due to competitors and the recession.
He is now worth just 17 billion.  Does he get that 2 billion in taxes back, now that he’s lost the value that he was taxed on?  He never sold anything, so those unrealized gains went “poof”.
Can you have unrealized losses for tax purposes too?  If not, this is a ridiculous tax.  And if you can have “unrealized losses” on your taxes, what would that do to tax collection receipts in a recession?  Not only would the government get far less due to a recession, they’d have to pay back taxes on capital gains.

I suspect that it’s just a one way deal: Pay taxes on unrealized gains but if you end up selling at a loss you just eat the loss.

So yeah, this is just wealth confiscation.  Prepare for a lot more offshoring of wealth if this passes.

KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
In the current tax system, they could use the loss to offset future gains or deduct $3k/yr from their income for the next 5 million or so years.
dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
That’s funny.  Would that even be considered a loss though?I’m sure, in the very tiny chance this is implemented, someone will find a loop hole.

Like leaving the USA.

whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
If they do that, I would fully support our military grabbing them from wherever they are and throwing them in Gitmo, where they should be made to wait for 20 years before they are granted a court appearance.
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Sounds like…fascism.
I thought Progressives disliked fascism?  Or do they?
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Business Man
Wrong!   Fascism is the merger of state power and corporate power.   Which means that is what we have right now If corporate crooks are being put in prison, that would be the end of fascism.    You got it exactly bass ackward! 🙂
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Which is fine, because more than a few of these psychopathic billionaires think that they are going to find some way to live forever.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
I think this is a good example of a clu$ter fudge. LMAO. If you haven’t moved your money offshore, and turned in your US citizenship, now is the time to do so.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
“Can you have unrealized losses for tax purposes too? “
No.
That’s the whole point of this: The Fed lining up its prime dependents and beneficiaries to lobby in favor of printing whatever it takes to prevent such annoyances as losses. Oherwise, Dear Fed says, the syyyystem wil colllaaapse. “The System” being, of course like always, shorthand for nothing more than the crass theft rackets which have made “The Billionaires” “billionaires” to begin with.
WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
4 years ago
Wow    so Nancy figures she’ll regurgitate maybe 10 million out of her insider trading pile of $170 million  ( on her pre-tax salary of $170,000).
Then she’ll be off to the insider-trading races again.     Winning.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
The cap will be set to just below her wealth.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago

So Sinema is against negotiating drug prices with pharma companies but is in favor of an unrealized capital gains tax??!!

Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
She must get more money from big pharma.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Wealth confiscation is all it is……and I hate to see it. I don’t see it any kind of solution.
How about we just tax the unrealized gains of Senators and  Congressmen instead?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
End the Fed, Gold at $20/oz. No Income taxes. Just as Jefferson intended.
Either that, or just let The Taliban have it all. 
Either one beats this nonsense.
Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago

Realised gains are usually less than unrealised gains because the valuation is based on the last trade price, not the price at which everyone sells. Therefore taxing unrealised gains is a pretty daft idea. 

dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
Reply to  Scooot

Yes.  Just pay for a  bot to trade one share of your 50 billion stock at .01 just before closing.100 billion in Amazon stock?  NO problem.  It will trade for .01 just before closing.

KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  dbannist
That’s not how exchanges work. You can’t sell below the highest bid. It’s not allowed. They would have to take out the entire bid stack to trade at a penny.
dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And….if there are a billion dollars worth of bids and a billionaire is going to have to pay 5 billion in unrealized gains…why would that be a  hindrance?
He could just clear the entire bid stack.  Yeah, he’d lose a billion but he’d still retain 4 billion.

This is going to result in shenanigans.

Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
4 years ago
There is already a wealth tax: “Borrowing” money that’s never paid back and is ultimately sourced from a printing press.
Such a tax is broadly based, hard to avoid, and doesn’t feel like a tax to voters. The latter aspect makes it more easily sold than, say, a VAT or sales tax.
Simplistically, one wonders whether this “wealth” is better used by billionaires or by the US government.
anoop
anoop
4 years ago
zero chance this happens.  zero.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  anoop
Well, it was either this, or to negotiate drug prices with pharma companies.   When SInema objected to that, many right-wingers (you know, the very same ones that say government should be run like a business?) applauded her.  And now, they got this.   Great!  
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Trump tried to do that too and was shot down by many democrats. The pharmaceutical industry controls both sides of the aisle.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Yes, of course.  This blog’s hero, Sinema, showed just a day or two ago how deeply concerned she is about the pharma industry profits…
conservativeprof
conservativeprof
4 years ago
The bad ideas keep getting worse. The idea that taxing a very small set of individuals to pay for the Democrats wild spending ideas is immoral and crazy. Markets can fluctuate wildly. End of year is an arbitrary period to assess wealth. Most individuals will need to sell large levels of assets in anticipation of taxation. The market will react to the sale with price declines. A large part of the USA population has invested in financial markets directly or indirectly. Unrealized gains are illusory except to Democrat plans for legalized theft. Of course, Democrats plan to tax unrealized gains but leave investors responsible for unrealized losses. I do not know of any country that taxes unrealized gains for a small set of individuals. Some of the most productive individuals will exit the USA to avoid this legalized theft. This crazy idea has disaster written everywhere. 
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
“A number of my friends who belong in the very high upper brackets have suggested to me on several occasions of late, that if I am reelected president, they will have to move to some other Nation because of high taxes here. Now I will miss them very much.” – FDR.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
What happened to all those democrats who said they would move out of the US if Trump was elected?
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Those D-crats, along with their neocon buddies and Lincoln Republican friends, are right-wingers too.  They just don’t agree with Trump’s style.  They are perfectly fine with right-wing economic policies.   
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
They stayed and got rid of trump instead.
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
The people you’re defending wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.  Quit groveling at their feet.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Absolutely.  These people….  sheesh!   Would have been funny if it were not so tragic 🙁

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