Like almost all progressives, I was infuriated and disheartened by Senate Democrats’ cave on the shutdown Sunday. The party won stunning election victories Tuesday — and its leaders responded with yet another preemptive surrender? (Chuck Schumer may have voted no, but he didn’t manage, and may not even have tried, to prevent defections.)
Yet while the immediate politics displayed Democratic tactical weakness, the larger story highlighted a different kind of weakness on the part of Donald Trump and MAGA as a whole — namely, their innate cruelty. They have a visceral dislike for policies that do anything to help the less fortunate, and can’t even bring themselves to be cynical, to help Americans temporarily while they consolidate power.
Consider the grounds on which the shutdown fight took place. Democrats made it about the enhanced subsidies that have kept premiums for health insurance under the Affordable Care Act fairly reasonable for millions of Americans — Americans who are now facing huge premium hikes that will create intense financial distress and force many to go uninsured.
Before the big cave, Democrats proposed a deal in which they would provide the votes to reopen the government in return for a one-year extension of those enhanced benefits. Republicans should have jumped at this deal. It’s true that Republicans are determined to destroy much of the social safety net. The One Big Beautiful Bill will impose savage cuts in Medicaid and food stamps. But these big cuts are set to happen after the midterm elections.
Drastically increasing health care costs at the beginning of 2026, causing millions to lose insurance, certainly looks like a massive political blunder. My guess is that it doesn’t reflect a considered strategy. Instead, Republicans just stumbled into this because nobody in a position of power within the party understood how the ACA works.
And polling suggests overwhelming public support for extending the enhanced subsidies: 74 percent overall, including half of Republicans.
So Republicans should have been eager for a chance to postpone the pain. Instead, by rejecting Democratic proposals, Republicans have placed the onus for soaring premiums squarely on themselves.
But the thought of doing something decent, even cynically and temporarily, doesn’t seem to have crossed Republican minds. John Thune, the Republican Senate majority leader, immediately declared the proposed deal a “nonstarter,” insisting that his party would only negotiate about healthcare after the government is reopened — which everyone understands means that Republicans will agree to nothing.
Why reject a deal that could have protected Republicans from their own mistakes? Part of the answer is sheer ignorance. Here was Trump’s response:
Substance aside, think about the idiocy of the timing here. The health insurance crisis is happening right now, as Americans open letters from their insurers and discover that they are facing huge increases — more than 100 percent on average, much more in many cases — in the cost of coverage beginning in just a few weeks. This is not exactly the time to propose immediately scrapping our existing health care system, replacing it with … something.
And a vague promise to deal with an immediate crisis by totally revamping healthcare is especially lacking in credibility coming from a man who has been promising, and failing, to deliver a superior alternative to Obamacare for around 9 years.
On the substance, Trump’s post makes it clear that after all this time he still has no idea how health care works. We’ve always known that he didn’t and doesn’t understand Obamacare, and why it’s hard to come up with a better system other than single-payer health insurance. But it’s now clear that he doesn’t even understand why healthcare relies on insurance, why we can’t pay medical expenses out of pocket. Hint: You never know if or when you’ll need extremely expensive treatment, but should the need arise, only the ultra-wealthy can come up with the necessary cash.
Oh, and it’s especially rich to see Trump take a break from boasting about his new gold-and-marble bathrooms to pretend to hate “money sucking Insurance Companies.”
Anyway, Trump’s vague ideas are, as Thune would say, a nonstarter. But why not punt, postponing the health affordability crisis by agreeing to a temporary extension of the ACA subsidies?
The answer, I believe, is that doing so would involve giving help to people who need it — and that’s something that, at a deep psychological level, MAGA can’t bring itself to do.
Going beyond government programs, most Americans are very unhappy about the state of the economy. They see high grocery prices and a very weak job market. Consumers’ assessment of the current state of the economy is worse now than it was at the peak of the 2021-22 inflation surge, or the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis.
The rational thing for Trump to do would be to say “I feel your pain,” while blaming the previous administration and promising that things will get better soon. But he can’t even fake empathy. Instead, he keeps insisting that things are great, in particular that “groceries are way down.”
This is factually false. More important from a political point of view, it contradicts what people — even Republican partisans — are seeing in their own lives. Here’s what Americans think about grocery inflation, according to a recent Washington Post/ABC News/Ipsos poll.
Has there ever been a case in which “Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?” was an effective political strategy? Last Tuesday’s elections clearly showed that it isn’t working now. But Trump and his minions seem unable to try anything different.
MAGA can’t help being cruel. It can’t even pretend to care about other people’s suffering. And Democrats should take full advantage of this pathology.
Is Krugman Right About Everything? Anything?
Paul Krugman is right that Republicans (for the benefit of Republicans) should have taken the deal.
He fails to understand Trump offered something much better than a one-year extension. And that offer, IF it happens, will be extremely costly.
Trump hopped on a proposal to send free money to people instead of paying their insurance.
Now, that may happen and it may not. But Trump embraced it making it likely.
Trump Embraces Universal Basic Income
Trump on Truth Social: I am recommending to Senate Republicans that the Hundreds of Billions of Dollars currently being sent to money sucking Insurance Companies in order to save the bad Healthcare provided by ObamaCare, BE SENT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE SO THAT THEY CAN PURCHASE THEIR OWN, MUCH BETTER, HEALTHCARE, and have money left over. In other words, take from the BIG, BAD Insurance Companies, give it to the people, and terminate, per Dollar spent, the worst Healthcare anywhere in the World, ObamaCare. Unrelated, we must still terminate the Filibuster!
Irony Abounds
That was not in the deal that just passed through the Senate. But Trump embraced it.
Sending money directly to the people is the start of Universal Basic Income (UBI).
Once UBI starts neither party will be able to stop it.
In return for a measly, $35 billion extension, Republicans offered UBI.
So, Ironically, for the sake of the deficit, $35 billion is a wonderful insurance policy against disaster.
Thus, Krugman should be pleased as punch with the development. So should Nate Silver and AOC.
I’ve never really been on the same page as Congressional Democrats when it comes to shutting down the government. In the spring, I thought they should pick a fight over Elon Musk and DOGE-related cuts, but they didn’t.
Then in September, I thought all their options were pretty bad. But that tariffs, not health care, would at least highlight President Trump’s unpopular handling of the economy and provide more of a pain point for Republicans — without offering a deal that could actually help the GOP in next year’s elections by extending popular health care subsidies.
Mind you, I didn’t expect Democrats to actually extract concessions from the GOP on tariffs. Rather, if Democrats held firm, Republicans would eventually have to pass a budget on their own by eliminating the filibuster — something that Democrats would rather be without anyway should they win a trifecta back in 2028.
And then once the shutdown began on Oct. 1, I disagreed with the conventional wisdom that Democrats were “winning” it. True, polls found that a slight plurality of voters blamed Republicans rather than Democrats. But those same polls showed that voters didn’t understand why there was a shutdown in the first place, and that Democrats’ message on health care wasn’t breaking through.
What Does Win Mean?
As with Krugman, Silver offers superficial analysis of what went down. Democrats had little means to fight DOGE cuts. They won and lost some battles in the courts.
The courts mostly sided with Trump and when the courts did, I think the courts made the correct rulings.
Silver disagrees with the assessment “Democrats were winning it.”
I suggest Democrats won it, to the extent it was winnable.
Democrats won 18 out 18 comparison measures in New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas, and California.
See the above link for discussion.
Question of the Day
Q: To what extent could Democrats win? A: To the extent they did.
They held on long enough for Republicans to get clobbered in November elections, long enough for Obamacare premiums to rise, long enough for Republicans to get most of the blame, long enough to see Trump try in the courts to kill SNAP benefits, and long enough for some air traffic jams to happen.
But the real bonus was long enough to see Trump respond with a UBI program that if started could be one of the biggest budget bloaters since Medicare.
Again, this might not happen, but Trump is in a vote-buying mood.
Krugman is so upset he cannot see the obvious. And he is upset for the alleged folding by the Democrats. This brings to mind a second question.
Q: What more could Democrats expect to win? A: Nothing
Since there was nothing more to gain, it was correct for Democrats to declare the war won and move on.
Those concerned about budget deficits defined “winning” as not giving Democrats anything.
I said (for different reasons than Krugman), Republicans should jump at the offer.
We have a deal. It will increase the deficit more than anyone can foresee now.
What’s In the Deal?
Healthcare money goes straight to households via flexible spending accounts.
The bill ensures back pay for federal workers after the White House had earlier called into question whether the money was guaranteed.
Provisions reversed thousands of firings of federal workers initiated by the Trump administration since the shutdown
Provisions forbid additional firings at least through Jan. 31, when a new interim spending measure expires.
The deal passed the Senate 60-40 but no one can really say how the healthcare spending accounts work.
Flexible Spending Accounts = UBI Start
The direct cash to consumers is the start of Universal Basic Income (UBI). And now Republicans own that.
This mechanism once started will never end. Money handouts will go up and up and up.
Gold responded by jumping $80 and the a follow-up the next day. It went from $3974 to $4132 in the past few days.
Final Irony
MAGA brags about the win. Progressives moan about the loss.
The real picture is the reverse.
Democrats hit a potential grand slam if Trump follows up with his vote-buying UBI scheme. Even if not, firings didn’t just stop, they reversed. It’s the best possible outcome for Democrats.
This, we call “winning”.
Finally, Democrats are correct to not brag about this. They should continue to piss and moan to goad Trump into following through with UBI.
Addendum
I offer this reader comment, as is.
Reader: Why is Krugman upset? Because like me, they hate what Trump is doing to this country.
And like me, they absolutely deplore the thought that he had the gall to hold innocent children hostage on SNAP to get his way.
Grok: “Both parties’ spending addictions truly endanger children’s futures through $36 trillion debt—reform demands accountability, not partisan outrage.”
Addendum Two
A reader asked for links to Senator Cassidy’s Proposal
I provided discussion in a previous post. At least one Democrat senator was thrilled. But also look at Trump’s Truth Social post!
“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
“Let’s just move beyond our trench line, and let’s actually think creatively,” said Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy (R., La.), the proponent of the leading idea, on the Senate floor Saturday. “And can we give just a little bit to find something which actually benefits the patient but may also get us out of this situation?”
Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.”
I propose this would be the start of UBI. And Trump embraced it.
All that remains is whether it passes because Trump would sign the bill.
Addendum 3
Reader: That’s not UBI. It’s a Health Savings Account.
WSJ:
It isn’t clear exactly how the Cassidy accounts would work. Flexible-spending accounts, which are typically used with employer coverage, not ACA plans, are tax-advantaged setups that consumers can fund themselves, up to around $3,300 a year. The tax-free money can then be used for a variety of health needs that would typically be paid for out of the enrollee’s pocket, including toward hospital or doctor care, or other expenses such as glasses. However, the money can’t be used to pay an insurance premium.
A different type of account, known as a health savings account, or HSA, can currently be used with ACA plans, but they are only allowed if the coverage has a deductible above a certain level—now set at $1,650 for an individual or $3,300 for a family.
A third type of setup, known as an individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement, can be used in a different way. Employers can put money in these accounts, and the funding can be applied toward workers’ premiums for coverage that they purchase themselves through the ACA marketplaces.
Mish: Cassidy’s plan is none of the above. Money will be handed out by the Government just as happened with three rounds of very inflationary fiscal stimulus payouts in the Covid years.
But let’s assume this money is “only” for health expenses.
Q: How long would that last? A: Until the next time Democrats are in control.
Q: What then? A: The money will be usable for house down payments, student loans, medical expenses, and emergencies (loosely defined).
Q: What do we call that? A: UBI
Can’t anyone see where this is headed if Cassidy’s plan takes hold?
All starting with the guise: Don’t worry, it’s free money but “It’s targeted free money”.
By the way, money is fungible. Even if the money is spent on healthcare, it funds a ski trip that otherwise would not have happened.
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“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
“Let’s just move beyond our trench line, and let’s actually think creatively,” said Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy (R., La.), the proponent of the leading idea, on the Senate floor Saturday. “And can we give just a little bit to find something which actually benefits the patient but may also get us out of this situation?”
Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.”
I have never understood why the medical industrial complex just doesn’t say, “we don’t take any insurance” and start competing on merit, affordability, and access. They must realize this whole ponzi scheme isn’t sustainable. Heck their own insurance CEOs are getting gunned down because of the rage and affordability.
The people that have means to hop on a plane and get treated outside the US know full well what a scam American healthcare system is these days. Like I said before, it’s cheaper to fly half-way around the world, sometimes in business class, stay at a 5 star resort, get treated and fly back. Yeah, it’s still cheaper to do all that than get treated in the U.S. for big ticket items.
I just had outpatient arthroscopic knee surgery. With the MRI ($1800) and the actual surgery lasting about 20 minutes ($8000), I paid $700 out of pocket. The surgery took place in a brand new orthopedic surgery center that has dedicated 700-spot parking garage. Surgery center is 7 stories and it is like the Taj Mahal inside. Operating room was like something out of Star-Trek.
What insurance company do you use, and what’s your monthly premium? It sounds like it’s one of the best, if not the best, insurance companies to deal with in the USA. I’ve had really bad experiences with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Farm Bureau health insurance, and Cigna. American health insurance companies have never covered a single penny of my healthcare. They charged extremely expensive premiums, over $400 per month for a non-smoker without diabetes or hypertension, and a BMI in the normal range, but never covered a single doctor visit, procedure, or prescription. They always had “deductibles” which seem to be a uniquely American scam to obsolve themselves of actually having to return value to the customer.
In 1996, I was a 19-year-old college student, still on my parents’ Blue Cross Blue Shield and I was having abdominal pain and passing dark purple blood. I had a colonoscopy at Baptist Hospital in Knoxville, TN. The bill was over $2000 and the insurance didn’t cover a single cent.
In 2009 or so, I had some chronic pain in my groin. That was back when University of Tennessee basketball star Chris Lofton was dealing with testicular cancer, so I figured I’d better get it checked out since I was in the 18-35 age range when it’s most common. I went to a urologist at UT Hospital with Farm Bureau health insurance. The doctor visit lasted less than five minutes and I was told it was a groin pull. The bill was around $350 and the health insurance didn’t cover a single cent.
In February of 2013, I had a vasectomy at a small urology clinic in Bundang, South Korea. It cost around $300 and the only reason the national health insurance didn’t cover it is because the government is trying to increase the birth rate, the world’s lowest.
In March of 2013, I had a colonoscopy at a boutique hospital in Gangnam district of Seoul and the cost of the colonoscopy was around $100 after insurance with an additional $50 or so because a polyp was removed.
In May of 2013, I had an emergency appendectomy at the same hospital in Gangnam. The total cost of the surgery, three nights in the hospital, the IV drip and meds was around $350 after health insurance. At the exact same time, an aunt had a routine abdominal surgery at Tennova in north Knoxville and was billed over a half million dollars. I don’t know how much over a half million it was, only it was “over a half million.” I stayed in the general ward since it was free and I actually wanted to be in a room with other patients. A private room would’ve cost, I think, around $80 a night. One of the other patients had flown from the Atlanta area especially for surgery because of the cost differential.
In 2015, I had a stomach endoscopy at the same hospital in Gangnam. The total cost was around $25. It would’ve been an additional $50 with sedation, but my twin is a geriatrics specialist and says each time you go under Twilight sedation it increases the risk of dementia when you’re old. Plus, I thought about how many grams of silver I could buy if I went without sedation. I went with silver instead of sedation, though I go with sedation during colonoscopies even though it’s apparently rarely done in Europe, from what I’ve read.
In 2016, I went to a dermatologist in downtown Nashville. The total bill for a 5-minute consultation was around $350 and Cigna didn’t cover a single penny. I didn’t even get to see the dermatologist. It seems medical care in the USA is increasingly being handled by FNPs, LPNs, etc.
In 2022, I went to a dermatology clinic in Bundang, Korea for a two-year-old painful rash on the back of my neck. I didn’t want to pay $350 to get it resolved, so I waited until I got back to Korea. The dermatologist put some small injections into the rash and it healed practically overnight. Total cost? Around $15. FNPs, LPNs, and so on don’t seem to be a thing in Korea. I’ve never seen one at least.
Korean national health insurance covers a mandatory health check every other year. It’s fully covered since preventative care is cheaper than treating a disease that has gotten out of control. My most recent one was in 2024, an even numbered year since my DOB is in 1976, an even numbered year. It involves abdominal ultrasounds, bloodwork, and some other things I’m forgetting. Since I had a polyp removed 11 years previously and my maternal grandmother had colon cancer with a colon amputation when she was in her 50s, my colonoscopy was fully covered.
Multiple ENT clinic visits over the years at the clinic across from my workplace and the ENT specialists at Bundang-Jesaeng Hospital were typically around $10 after insurance.
A consultation at the opthalmologist at Bundang-Jesaeng was around $10 and my prescription eyeglasses were around $40.
South Korea ranks in the top 5 in life span while the USA isn’t even ranked in the top 50. The USA has 530,000 to 550,000 medical bankruptcies per year while it’s extremely rare in South Korea. You can’t get rich on health insurance stock in South Korea, since the National Health Insurance Corporation is non-profit the way United Healthcare shareholders have seen their shares go up from $0.12 in 1988 to $327.45 today, a 272,775% profit.
Last edited 1 month ago by Victoria "the Hutt" Nuland
They paid nearly 100% of mine – seldom deductibles
4-stent operation over 8 hours – 100%
$23,000 experimental drug ($2,000 copay covering 100% of my max copays for a full year)
Unfortunately Aetna cancelled my plan
Switched to Humana
It depends on where you live.
St. George is a healthy area.
You cannot get the plans elsewhere you can get here
I’m really glad you had good coverage, as it not only helps physical and financial health, but mental health too. It’s refreshing to read good news.
I imagine thousands of Americans self-delete each year from medical bankruptices, when there are 550,000 of them. I hope I’m wrong about that. I really hope they structured their wealth into hidden assets before filing. It’s one reason everyone in the USA should own precious metals. A bank account in some of the more unpopular BRICS nations is icing on the cake, but gold and silver are things that are easily accessible to all of us and can function as insurance on the insurance.
I live in Southern Appalachia, so there’s rampant methamphetamine, opioid, and tobacco usage in addition to massive obesity. I read the other day that the average BMI in the USA is 29 for men and 30.5 for women. If that’s true for the entire USA, it has to be at least 31 for men and 35 for women here. I’m going to Korea at the end of the year. A girlfriend there is the main reason, but I think I need a hernia repair operation on the opposite side from one I got in Korea in 2013 or 2014. I forgot to mention that one. It was around $350 at the same hospital as the appendectomy.
I’m really glad things are working out for you in Utah and that you’re not in Illinois, and that you’re enjoying the best things our nation has to offer.
Have never had anything remotely like that happen to me or my family. Did have a1.5 year battle to get a MRI, but once approved surgery happened right away. The gym guys mucked it up. My son is a physician and everything he does has to be approved by an insurer, and he literally could work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is that much approved work for his specialty. Never ending.
The food industry, the healthcare industries and social media gang together to kill our children from early age. 5Y children suffer from insulin resistance.
Go get them !
Classical conservatism would say: raise your children right. Freedom isn’t free. Or else, employ the hated nanny state as GOP called it a few short years ago, to regulate what kind of junk is sold (as Bloomberg recommended). Current “conservatives” are the one happily and noiselessly scraping their dividends off the child-exploitative practices you identify. And Trump does far less than zero on this, excepting the occasional randomly semi-correct current outburst from RFK Jr., amidst a sea of folly from the both of them. I’ve been healthy for decades and it has ZERO to do with MAGA.
“start competing on merit, affordability, and access”
Do you get outside your bubble much? Many metros in the US have no competing hospitals or care networks because of consolidation. Prime example is Mayo in Rochester, MN and their health care charges reflect that.
Not to mention that in many metros health care access is severely constrained (like the one I live in) and there’s not enough to go around so you’re lucky if you can even get the care you need or want no matter how high of a price you’re willing to pay.
Concierge docs don’t take insurance and that’s a lot of the PCP community. either that or they affiliated with large health systems.
Surgery centers and medical imaging clinics accept cash and some even have docs that have no offices…. just a place to do their procedures.
Since we use a health sharing ministry, it’s a bit like buying a car…. you always ask for the cash/no insurance price and it’s a bit shocking to see the delta between the insurance price vs cash price. Everything is negotiable.
When this became our normal, I felt badly about negotiating with docs. No more. You want our business? Give me a competitive cash price or I’ll move on to the next.
It’s kinda good, but it also sucks that healthcare is being treated like buying a CPO Honda.
Democrats have made expanding access to health care a central plank of their party platform. People of good faith may disagree with the way they’ve gone about it. (ACA, insurance etc.) I myself disagree; the solution is a single payer system. But Democrats are legitimately upset that millions of their constituents are going to lose affordable insurance in January. The trend of having less and less uninsured Americans will reverse. Many of us remember how serious a problem medical debt was before the ACA and feel that all that progress is being undone.
So while politically this might harm the Republicans more, a key difference here is that Democrats actually care that constituents are being harmed, and recognize that a political win is not the same as a win for constituents. For this same reason, sustaining the shutdown proved difficult for Democrats because it was going to mean Americans going hungry, and constituents losing jobs.
Democrats have chosen not to follow the Charlie Kirk philosophy where empathy is a woke invention.
But empathy is indeed a temporary weakness in game theory politics.
The real game is to find out just how gullible voters can possibly be, and how many will vote for a party that showed it was willing to starve them rather than give them affordable access to medical care. This is where empathy becomes a strength and not a weakness.
realityczech
1 month ago
No politician has the stones to fix healthcare – offering a bare bones but servicable public option with commercial insurance serving as add ons/private rooms.
vouchers is another way to do it, but would be difficult to manage.
Neil
1 month ago
The Grok quote is not only cruel – it is disingenious. When children are out of food right now, feeding them now is obviously much more important than saving their financials decades from now. Typical Elon nonsense. Even worse, these things are not mutually exclusive.
Whining about an AI answer you don’t like is irrelevant. Fixing an over-reliance on government to do more and more is the core problem, not being late for SNAP.
Same thing with the colleges whining about losing their billions, despite having billions in PE money.
Similar problem, but obviously the colleges should be cut loose first.
Siliconguy
1 month ago
Krugman believes the people in general are too stupid to run their own lives. The people need continuous and meticulous supervision at all times from the elite experts in the Professional Managerial class.
His response to anything that would allow the rabble to make their own decisions is entirely predicable.
<<Krugman believes the people in general are too stupid to run their own lives>> Some are, but not those Krugman thinks. The 2008 crisis was caused by the Professional Managerial class. Going back in history, that class has been responsible for the darkest pages in Western history. The Spanish Inquisition personnel were the then “professional managerial class”. As well as the eugenics crowd in the 20th century, which were considered the Progressives of the times. Under the indifference and nihilism of those “elites”, the Islamic Ottomans reached Vienna at some point. Nowadays they are busy bringing them over here, and printing money to support them, because in the words of one of their evangelists, social cohesion and stability is too boring. Krugman does not even believe in sound money, he supports the half-baked Keynesian theories without limits. His economic theory is to continuously brake and fix the windows to create artificial economic activity because “resources are unlimited” (while at the same time supporting environmentalism). That’s either hypocrisy or brain damage.
He’s the same Tard Harness that said there is no inflation. It’s just your imagination.
Stu
1 month ago
Moan? They should be having a Parade! They ousted Schumer, and He did it to himself. The New Guard is giddy over this. Too easy… Pelosi gone too, it’s like Christmas came early for the New Crowd coming in!!!
Bill
1 month ago
The Mish point on the fungible nature of money is spot on. Even if you force these new plans to be aimed only at health care it indirectly funds whatever else that household spends money on a 1:1 basis with health care. I suspect it would be aimed at lower income levels so doubtful it would be on ski trips, I’ll leave it to others to speculate what healthy purchases and behaviours it may fund. However, if like an FSA it must be used for health care, and only health care, in the year it is funded, there is some if ever so small constraint in place. But, can you imagine what health care would look like in November and December each year? Good luck getting an appointment when many are in a is use-free money-or-lose-it mindset. We see it with deductibles already to some extent.
Second point–at least Krugman’s comments at length discuss policy though rambling on in an ideologically simple handout/socialist worldview. Notice Silver is mostly concerned about political power and how the gamesmanship impacts regaining power in 2028. But once Krugman famously mentioned printing a quadrillion dollar coin to expand the money supply his Nobel-ish ramblings don’t hold the same chachet with me. I tire of Democrats taking some false high ground that they are looking out for folks–after all, the ACA was designed to “help” and it clearly has failed. All the programs he mentions and the infinitely more Democrats propose fail and will fail because you and only you can move yourself forward, in aggregate. A government boost should only be temporary and small and it never is so the trap or cycle of need and assistance is unbroken.
Most tiring is all the political theatrics now that plays to social media but doesn’t do a damn thing for the U.S. or the population. They look like grifters not grinders. I want someone that just wants to grind out work, get as good a legislation done as possible and then go back to their districts. The less they help us the better as we have nearly 40 trillion reasons why their brand of help ain’t all that clever. Like banks getting paid on excess reserves, loaned into existence and profited from, running up a tab and spreading it around ain’t sound governing.
We always get to some damn deadline, known about months in advance, and then it becomes political theater and unnecessarily emergent bad policy. What the eff do they do in the meanwhile? Tweet, stand in front of a camera, fundraise behind the scenes without any work to prioritize the next most pressing piece of legislation, debt ceiling avoidance or expiration of existing legislation. It’s bad management writ large. Here we are discussing some UBI-type FSA accounts at the last minute without any details or thoughtful public hashing out of it….throw shit on a wall because you didn’t do the work in August when the deadlines were months away.
john smith the third
1 month ago
Mish, I think the democrats who voted with Trump simply did so based on orders from their rich donors, not because of some grand political strategy. After all, wouldn’t Trump passing UBI guarantee victory for republicans in the midterm elections, and on a policy that could have been a Democratic signature cause that would have rallied their base?
Well, all the Democrats that voted for this are not seeking re-election. So it seems difficult to believe they are all kowtowing to rich donors since they won’t need those donor dollars for their next re-election run.
Sweetheart, you do know there are other reasons besides seeking reelection for them to listen to their donors, like getting cushy consultants jobs after retiring from politics?
Is it really that hard to believe that people voted for Trump to avoid voting for Headboard Harris?
The Window Cleaner
1 month ago
YOU DON’T GET IT MISH! THE WAY TO FUND UBI IS NOT WITH BONDS I.E. DEBT INSTRUMENTS WHICH CREATES INTEREST TO BE PAID WHICH IN TURN CREATES THE “DEFICIT”, BUT WITH MONETARY GIFTING…WHICH DOESN’T CREATE ANY SUCH NEED TO PAY INTEREST.
AND NO, THE 50% DISCOUNT/REBATE AT RETAIL SALE WON’T CREATE INFLATION, BUT RATHER BENEFICIAL PRICE AND ASSET DEFLATION BECAUSE THE POLICY WILL REDUCE THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING BY HALF. AND NO BECAUSE THE REBATED/GIFTED MONEY BACK TO THE COMMERCIAL AGENT ASPECT OF THE POLICY MAKES THE COMMERCIAL AGENT WHOLE ON THEIR ENTIRE PRICE WITHOUT CREATING THE NECESSITY OF CREATING INTEREST TO BE PAID…EITHER.
DO YOU FINALLY GET IT???
ADDENDUM: NOW THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU CAN’T OR SHOULDN’T ALSO BE ABLE TO CREATE MONEY AS DEBT IF YOU’RE A BANKER OR EVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE INTEREST PAID ON THAT DEBT…IS ACTUALLY A PAYMENT TO/AN INVESTMENT FOR…THE PRIVATE SECTOR. GOT IT???
JCH1952
1 month ago
It is impossible to replace Obamacare by placing 2,000 taxpayer dollars into some low-income redneck’s flexible spending account. That notion is insane. Probably will take around 10,000 taxpayer dollars to take care of all the low-income rednecks, and doing that would be a total disaster. Somebody has to pool the money and manage it. They either hire an insurance company to manage it or the government manages it.
But the Negr–oes and the wet–backs would be getting it too, so your point is kind of hard to take seriously.
njbr
1 month ago
Pulte, the idea guy…
Mortgage giant Fannie Mae is set to drop its longstanding credit score minimum later this month
The government-sponsored enterprise announced last Wednesday that as of Nov. 16, it will no longer require a minimum FICO score of 620 for borrowers. Instead, the enterprise will “rely on its own comprehensive analysis of risk factors to determine eligibility.”
Previously, borrowers with a FICO score below 620 would be automatically rejected from Fannie Mae’s underwriting system. Under the new guidelines, though, borrowers, especially first-time homebuyers, could gain access to greater financing options.
Bill Pulte, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which serves as a conservator of Fannie Mae, said in a post on X that the rule change won’t affect the enterprise’s underlying underwriting standards. Instead, it creates more leeway for different types of scores to be considered.
I can’t believe that you gave so much space to Krugman. He is one of the most intellectually dishonest men in public life. Remember the ACA was supposed to reduce health care costs because giving people access to health care would improve their health and reduce downstream costs, like emergency room visits. False. And a one-year extension of the ACA subsidies is A TERRIBLE IDEA MISH, because it implies that subsidies make of this size are valid, has them expire around the midterms making them the campaign issue, and ensures that they would roll over for at least another year following next year. Of course the polls show people supporting them, because the regime media never really explained the context. These were never considered as part of the ACA and were only added temporarily during Covid.
I have written one post on Krugman in the past 2-3 years.
That’s a lot of space?
He posted an interesting article worth discussing, so I discussed it.
And apparently you would rather risk UBI than pay a mere $35 billion.
KSU82
1 month ago
I nominate Krugman for the next FED chair. That sure would be interesting to see. 🙂
Ryan Lynn
1 month ago
I agree with you that this could easily morph into UBI. I find it amazing that you are sure its going to happen because Trump supports it this nanosecond.
You’ve written about Trump enough to know that what he says today has no obvious correlation to what he does tomorrow.
For the record its certainly plausible he follows through. He loves his image on things, trading cards, currency, government checks etc
When conservatives realize what they have glommed onto – in essence, the Canadian healthcare system {AOC and Bernie call it Medicare for All} – they will drop this instantly. 100% socialism is coming out of their mouths (their idiotic definition of it).
The Republicans have no healthcare plan. And they never will. They can’t even come close to one as good as Obamacare. Isn’t that obvious by now?
Don’t forget all the medical bankruptcies and deaths that occurred during this “used to be a thing too” period you aspire to – from most people that could not “finance” bankrupting surgeries or treatments.
“For the record its certainly plausible he follows through. He loves his image on things, trading cards, currency, government checks etc”
That’s the answer a monthly check for $10,000 for everyone with Trump’s picture prominently displayed, no direct deposit, only a paper check with Trump’s picture on the gold envelope and the gold check inside. Perfect until he dies, then what do we do?
njbr
1 month ago
Trump now pushing hard for H1b so we don’t have to depend on the lazy unemployed Americans to build missiles for foreign countries
Trump: “You can’t just say a country is going to coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and take people off an unemployment line who haven’t worked in five years and they’re going to start making their missiles. It doesn’t work that way.”
Are the payments monthly? $2000 / year isn’t going to last at all, it’s a blip.
Flexible Spending Accounts also don’t roll over from year to year, you’ve got to use it up or loose it. That’s why it’s better for healthcare expenses that are recurring rather than emergencies. Unlike an HSA or HRA.
phleep
1 month ago
This free-money offer is incredibly ill-calculated. Just like grocery prices, people (especially the lower 50% in wealth and income) are going to painfully notice immediately 1) premium rises, and 2) the absence of the free money. The Big Beautiful bill was a much more Beautiful Bait and Switch because the (perceived) rug-pulls will happen after the midterms. But Orange Guy doesn’t think that far ahead. He posts at any hour with no consultation. He’s the Sultan of No Consultin’. So far his run of luck and crowd faith hasn’t come up snake-eyes.
phleep
1 month ago
Wouldn’t this give-away be incredibly expensive and intrusive to administer and monitor? I can see widespread fraud and abuse of this from day one. But, never face this bunch with principles. It is the era of micro-attention span stunts.
They’d use an existing payment mechanism, possibly even something like SNAP or the ones FEMA has. All they’d need would be to implement rules for approved “health care” expenses and deny the Jack Daniels.
Remember when MAGA was loosing their minds over Biden diverting disaster funds for something called the Shelter and Service program that supported CBP and their ability to find housing for immigrants? Except it wasn’t a diversion of disaster funds, the funds were separate and allocated by Congress (back when Congress sort of functioned,) and FEMA was only involved because they had a payment system (i.e, stored value cards,) that could be used by SSP.
It is well-understood that the U.S. faces an unsustainable fiscal future. We review historical budget trends and basic fiscal processes. We provide new estimates of the budget outlook, incorporating the recently enacted One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA), and finding that the debt-GDP ratio will rise to 183% in 2054 under the OBBBA as legislated and to 199% if the temporary tax and spending provisions are made permanent. These figures compare to a current debt-GDP ratio of about 100% and a pre-OBBBA CBO analysis earlier this year that projected the 2054 debt-GDP ratio to be 154%. We estimate a fiscal gap – the permanent tax or spending changes needed to keep the 2054 debt-GDP ratio at its current level – to be about 3.4% of GDP if OBBBA is extended. We discuss the economic and political ramifications of debt and different ways to address the fiscal situation.
Last edited 1 month ago by njbr
Jojo
1 month ago
“Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.””
Be serious! The sheeple will be quickly fleeced if everyone is making their own deals with hospitals and MD’s.
There isn’t any standard pricing in the medical world. There isn’t a flat-labor book like in auto repair. Consumers don’t know the terminology.
Anyone who has actually looked at their EOB’s from medical services or an outpatient surgical report, which can run 40 pages or more of what things they did and what drugs they gave you and in what amounts during an operation knows that the whole medical payment system has been purposefully designed to obfuscate everything.
Even better, the MAHA orientation of RFKjr guarantees the entry of all the hucksters and scammers (this admin’s people are tops at that) to get all of that tasty government money
In the search for MAHA, the EPA is now allowing the use of “forever chemicals” in pesticides and herbicides in food crops now
Unless you have an insurance company standing between you and the health care provider you are likely to be raked over the coals by the provider. They’ll charge you the outrageous billing amount and you, unlike the insurance company, won’t be in any position to negotiate the amount down to the 30% like the insurance company can. Sure, some providers have a cash price for some things but they’re usually outpatient procedures like dental cleaning or a blood test. Good luck paying cash for open heart surgery or dialysis or cancer treatment unless you’re one of the 1%.
TEF
1 month ago
Concur.
Michael Engel
1 month ago
Trump signed an executive order expanding school vouchers redirecting federal funds from public schools to private schools. It will give parents more choice in their kids edu. Trump proposed to redirect federal funds from Obamacare to private insurance co.
On Nov 4 the dems couldn’t stop winning, they got Mamdani, but Yuda sold them off.
Last edited 1 month ago by Michael Engel
JCH1952
1 month ago
What they have revealed so far is totally unworkable.
Tezza
1 month ago
Shutdown’s biggest losers were taxpayers. Federal workers received a free four week paid vacation. No spending cuts negotiated with this extension. Travelers delayed at airports, etc.
Last edited 1 month ago by Tezza
Creamer
1 month ago
Don’t forget randomly banning hemp in order to screw over farmers even harder on a bill that has nothing to do with it. Great job dems! Thanks for reminding voters why we need another party or another system.
Jack
1 month ago
Lets see once & for all who ya’ll really are then. If ya for Republicans give this an upvote, if ya for Democrats give this a downvote, if ya independent comment “Independent” & if ya think they are all controlled theatre comment “Slaves”. Thanks
Do you mind not trying to hijack my survey? I guess people are in the closet, like their comments isn’t revealing anyway. FREEDOM or exit strategies have zero to do with anything.
Laura
1 month ago
The Democrats were stupid to think they had any leverage to gain anything from the shutdown. I think SNAP was the final straw to get them to cave. This was a Schumer shutdown. The Republicans will take a hit in the mid terms due to the economy even though voting for Democrats will make the economy worse. Congress needs to DRASTICALLY cut spending which neither side seems to care enough to vote for it.
Republicans will take a huge hit…but because of the Gaza atrocities they supported. Look at Candace Owens’ ratings, nutcase or no, Americans are siding with the splinter conservative movement of MTG/Massie and turning on Benedict Donald.
Garry
1 month ago
What did Krugman say that wasn’t factually correct? Whether you believe government should provide health coverage for everyone or not. Republican philosophy is to oppose these type programs. Why not own it and say so.
Arguably nothing. See first addendum and Grok’s reply.
Jack
1 month ago
I said before & will say it again. The reason why this was done has zero to do with insurance, it’s another stimulus & desperate attempt at propping up the hyperbubble.
The shutdown was & is all theatre, this is why they didn’t choose the 1yr extension & cheapest option, by giving the sheeple cash to their hands (Bank accounts) they will spend it or as soon as it’s paid be sucked up by banks to repay their debts, overdraft, loans, credit cards, autoloans, student debt. This is the game, give them cash so the bnaks can swipe it off them as it hits their accounts or for the very few spend it gambling on stocks or spend it on stuff they do not need.
Think about it, if $3 grand is deposited into an account & they got a $5 grand overdraft it’s gone, vanishes as the banks then reduce their overdraft to $2 grand. You get it? This is designed to slow the defaults that are skyrocketing, the Grifter In Chief love corporations & that includes insurance companies, he gave em trillions already while screwing the poor, why would he go against them now? He isn’t, the banks need the cash more, especially when SOFR recently indicated they are extremely nervous about something.
The desperation is palpable if you look through the smoke & mirrors, whenever The Grifter in Chief presents himself as altruistic you know he’s a liar. Ballrooms anyone?
Jojo
1 month ago
The first rule of the game of Chicken is that you have to be prepared to die. Trump was. The Dems weren’t.
What does it matter if Trump takes a midterm hit Mish if he’s a slave to the same idiots the Democrats are. Call me cynical, conspiracy theorist or whatever. It’s fact, this is a game of the few rich making sure the 90% majority stay down & they stay in charge.
Epstein, Gaza, unwanted war with Venezuela. Those three betrayals are enough to make a third of conservatives sit out the midterms. 50 year mortgages are just the cherry on top (for the Democrats).
THat’s a year away. Voter memories are short and Trump will introduce a lot of distraction by then.
The Dems may well come out on top in the midterms , although that is not guaranteed, but unless they get super-majorities in both sides of Congress, Trump will veto anything they try to pass until his term is up, 2 years later.
And that is based on Trump not declaring an emergency of some sort that requires martial law and the suspension of voting.
The Grifter in Chief isn’t prepared to die, if he was he wouldn’t have bone spurs, wouldn’t call soldiers suckers & if you believe he escaped assassination you’re dumber than dirt. All theatre, I can’t even begin to list the hundreds of flaws in that dumb story.
Jojo
1 month ago
Jon Stewart went bazonkers last night on The Daily Show, also accusing the Dems of caving. I fail to see it.
So the Dem won a few small elections? What did/will this change? The answer is nothing. Mandami doesn’t take office to January and he isn’t going to be able to bring much of, if anything of his promises to fruition. And NYC is not representative of the USA as a whole.
Had the Dems continued to hold out, Federal workers would have continued not to get paid, and for those living on the edge, falling further into debt and possibly being evicted from their homes or losing their cars with no guarantee that back pay would be delivered.
SNAP recipients MIGHT have gotten 50% of their November allocation but certainly would not have gotten more as the special fund that would be used to pay those monies was too small.
The Republicans are happy to allow the ENHANCED ACA subsidies to expire, even if it affected MTG kids [lol]. Dems will ultimately get blamed for putting a sunset date on them.
So I don’t see where the Dems thought they were winning or might win.
The Republicans just totally embraced the single payor healthcare system: Canada. Even Hillarycare had at least some capitalism in it. I have no idea what will happen once they figure this out. Think it’s called heads exploding.
There is no basis on which to expect consistency or adherence to principles from a Trump-led Republican party, as relates to fiscal matters. The record is to the contrary. That doesn’t absolve the Dems of their follies either.
Won what? Has Trump or his team made any changes based on these “wins”? Is anything different? Tell me what is changed.
Rando Comment Guy
1 month ago
Just more Krugman distractors; no mention of all the elephants in the room. The empire is totally broke and can’t pay for this. No mention of health insurance companies gouging. No mention of possibly paying for this in exchange for decreased government spending elsewhere. Krugman just wants endless money printing and endless currency devaluation.
JeffD
1 month ago
“What’s In the Deal?
Healthcare money goes straight to households via flexible spending accounts.”
Do you have the link to the legislative text for this? Try as I might, I can’t find it.
I provided discussion in a previous post. At least one Democrat senator was thrilled. But also look at Trump’s Truth Social post!
“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
“Let’s just move beyond our trench line, and let’s actually think creatively,” said Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy (R., La.), the proponent of the leading idea, on the Senate floor Saturday. “And can we give just a little bit to find something which actually benefits the patient but may also get us out of this situation?”
Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.”
It is impossible it will be anything like the current flexible spending accounts, Though I suspect that what many Republicans think: we’ll give them some healthcare trinkets. Like buying Manhattan for beads. The flexible spending account would have to be able to pay for some enormous hospital bills.
Exactly! A friend at my health club had a heart operation. It cost over $1 million! Is Congress going to be handing out sums like that to consumers? [ROTFLOL]
Jojo
1 month ago
“Sending money directly to the people is the start of Universal Basic Income (UBI).”
Whew. That’s not UBI. It’s a Health Savings Account. And it will do nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare and therefore health insurance.
Would you please think ahead as to where that goes.
And it is UBI.
It is far beyond a Health Savings Account.
WSJ:
It isn’t clear exactly how the Cassidy accounts would work. Flexible-spending accounts, which are typically used with employer coverage, not ACA plans, are tax-advantaged setups that consumers can fund themselves, up to around $3,300 a year. The tax-free money can then be used for a variety of health needs that would typically be paid for out of the enrollee’s pocket, including toward hospital or doctor care, or other expenses such as glasses. However, the money can’t be used to pay an insurance premium.
A different type of account, known as a health savings account, or HSA, can currently be used with ACA plans, but they are only allowed if the coverage has a deductible above a certain level—now set at $1,650 for an individual or $3,300 for a family.
A third type of setup, known as an individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement, can be used in a different way. Employers can put money in these accounts, and the funding can be applied toward workers’ premiums for coverage that they purchase themselves through the ACA marketplaces.
Mish: This is none of the above as I see it. Money will be handed out by the Government. UBI
Call it whatever you will. I have long posted here that in 20-30 years there will not be any money, an AI will be running everything, robots will be doing all the work and everything will be free. Is that UBI? Does it matter?
This plan is never going to fly anyway. Insurance companies have a sweet game going now. They will be fighting against any major changes and threatening Congress with pulling their campaign donations if they don’t kill any plans that radically affect their currently lucrative business model.
You don’t think the Dems will tweak it, when they get in charge. The key word is “start”.
Last edited 1 month ago by Art
MPO45v2
1 month ago
“They held on long enough for Republicans to get clobbered in November elections, long enough for Obamacare premiums to rise, long enough for Republicans to get most of the blame, long enough to see Trump try in the courts to kill SNAP benefits, and long enough for some air traffic jams to happen.”
You hit the nail on the head and earned yourself a 3-star Mishelin on this post for astute insight, analysis, and triggering MAGA (there will be triggered). Dems were playing 5D chess while Trump/GOP can’t find the jacks.
Republican socialism or democrat socialism all ends the same way and there’s only one way out……
Last edited 1 month ago by MPO45v2
BenW
1 month ago
Krugman is a proponent of Modern Monetary Theory.
He doesn’t care about deficits or interest expense.
The Fed is literally a blank check to this guy.
Anything he says to do means we should do the exact opposite.
Mamdani is about the only politician to Krugman’s left.
Krugman pretends to hate it so you think it’s better than you thought.
steve
1 month ago
There is something about all those massive insurance cartel towers in every city dwarfing the hospitals. And their billionaire bosses, and the minions of pencil pushers within and on the highways, not a single one treating patients or producing anything. And the mountains of junk mail selling what? PARASITES ALL, only there to insert themselves into your medical costs and feed off the gov subsidies. It makes me wonder WHY?
A reader asked for links to Senator Cassidy’s Proposal
I provided discussion in a previous post. At least one Democrat senator was thrilled. But also look at Trump’s Truth Social post!
Truth Social: https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115514453574326959
Quotes
Free WSJ Link: https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/republicans-pitch-alternative-to-aca-extension-to-end-government-shutdown-3be838e3?st=ct8h8k&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
“Let’s just move beyond our trench line, and let’s actually think creatively,” said Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy (R., La.), the proponent of the leading idea, on the Senate floor Saturday. “And can we give just a little bit to find something which actually benefits the patient but may also get us out of this situation?”
Second Link:
https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cassidy-delivers-floor-speech-to-demand-end-to-shutdown-call-for-action-to-lower-health-costs-for-american-families/
Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.”
I have never understood why the medical industrial complex just doesn’t say, “we don’t take any insurance” and start competing on merit, affordability, and access. They must realize this whole ponzi scheme isn’t sustainable. Heck their own insurance CEOs are getting gunned down because of the rage and affordability.
The people that have means to hop on a plane and get treated outside the US know full well what a scam American healthcare system is these days. Like I said before, it’s cheaper to fly half-way around the world, sometimes in business class, stay at a 5 star resort, get treated and fly back. Yeah, it’s still cheaper to do all that than get treated in the U.S. for big ticket items.
I just had outpatient arthroscopic knee surgery. With the MRI ($1800) and the actual surgery lasting about 20 minutes ($8000), I paid $700 out of pocket. The surgery took place in a brand new orthopedic surgery center that has dedicated 700-spot parking garage. Surgery center is 7 stories and it is like the Taj Mahal inside. Operating room was like something out of Star-Trek.
What insurance company do you use, and what’s your monthly premium? It sounds like it’s one of the best, if not the best, insurance companies to deal with in the USA. I’ve had really bad experiences with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Farm Bureau health insurance, and Cigna. American health insurance companies have never covered a single penny of my healthcare. They charged extremely expensive premiums, over $400 per month for a non-smoker without diabetes or hypertension, and a BMI in the normal range, but never covered a single doctor visit, procedure, or prescription. They always had “deductibles” which seem to be a uniquely American scam to obsolve themselves of actually having to return value to the customer.
In 1996, I was a 19-year-old college student, still on my parents’ Blue Cross Blue Shield and I was having abdominal pain and passing dark purple blood. I had a colonoscopy at Baptist Hospital in Knoxville, TN. The bill was over $2000 and the insurance didn’t cover a single cent.
In 2009 or so, I had some chronic pain in my groin. That was back when University of Tennessee basketball star Chris Lofton was dealing with testicular cancer, so I figured I’d better get it checked out since I was in the 18-35 age range when it’s most common. I went to a urologist at UT Hospital with Farm Bureau health insurance. The doctor visit lasted less than five minutes and I was told it was a groin pull. The bill was around $350 and the health insurance didn’t cover a single cent.
In February of 2013, I had a vasectomy at a small urology clinic in Bundang, South Korea. It cost around $300 and the only reason the national health insurance didn’t cover it is because the government is trying to increase the birth rate, the world’s lowest.
In March of 2013, I had a colonoscopy at a boutique hospital in Gangnam district of Seoul and the cost of the colonoscopy was around $100 after insurance with an additional $50 or so because a polyp was removed.
In May of 2013, I had an emergency appendectomy at the same hospital in Gangnam. The total cost of the surgery, three nights in the hospital, the IV drip and meds was around $350 after health insurance. At the exact same time, an aunt had a routine abdominal surgery at Tennova in north Knoxville and was billed over a half million dollars. I don’t know how much over a half million it was, only it was “over a half million.” I stayed in the general ward since it was free and I actually wanted to be in a room with other patients. A private room would’ve cost, I think, around $80 a night. One of the other patients had flown from the Atlanta area especially for surgery because of the cost differential.
In 2015, I had a stomach endoscopy at the same hospital in Gangnam. The total cost was around $25. It would’ve been an additional $50 with sedation, but my twin is a geriatrics specialist and says each time you go under Twilight sedation it increases the risk of dementia when you’re old. Plus, I thought about how many grams of silver I could buy if I went without sedation. I went with silver instead of sedation, though I go with sedation during colonoscopies even though it’s apparently rarely done in Europe, from what I’ve read.
In 2016, I went to a dermatologist in downtown Nashville. The total bill for a 5-minute consultation was around $350 and Cigna didn’t cover a single penny. I didn’t even get to see the dermatologist. It seems medical care in the USA is increasingly being handled by FNPs, LPNs, etc.
In 2022, I went to a dermatology clinic in Bundang, Korea for a two-year-old painful rash on the back of my neck. I didn’t want to pay $350 to get it resolved, so I waited until I got back to Korea. The dermatologist put some small injections into the rash and it healed practically overnight. Total cost? Around $15. FNPs, LPNs, and so on don’t seem to be a thing in Korea. I’ve never seen one at least.
Korean national health insurance covers a mandatory health check every other year. It’s fully covered since preventative care is cheaper than treating a disease that has gotten out of control. My most recent one was in 2024, an even numbered year since my DOB is in 1976, an even numbered year. It involves abdominal ultrasounds, bloodwork, and some other things I’m forgetting. Since I had a polyp removed 11 years previously and my maternal grandmother had colon cancer with a colon amputation when she was in her 50s, my colonoscopy was fully covered.
Multiple ENT clinic visits over the years at the clinic across from my workplace and the ENT specialists at Bundang-Jesaeng Hospital were typically around $10 after insurance.
A consultation at the opthalmologist at Bundang-Jesaeng was around $10 and my prescription eyeglasses were around $40.
South Korea ranks in the top 5 in life span while the USA isn’t even ranked in the top 50. The USA has 530,000 to 550,000 medical bankruptcies per year while it’s extremely rare in South Korea. You can’t get rich on health insurance stock in South Korea, since the National Health Insurance Corporation is non-profit the way United Healthcare shareholders have seen their shares go up from $0.12 in 1988 to $327.45 today, a 272,775% profit.
They paid nearly 100% of mine – seldom deductibles
4-stent operation over 8 hours – 100%
$23,000 experimental drug ($2,000 copay covering 100% of my max copays for a full year)
Unfortunately Aetna cancelled my plan
Switched to Humana
It depends on where you live.
St. George is a healthy area.
You cannot get the plans elsewhere you can get here
I’m really glad you had good coverage, as it not only helps physical and financial health, but mental health too. It’s refreshing to read good news.
I imagine thousands of Americans self-delete each year from medical bankruptices, when there are 550,000 of them. I hope I’m wrong about that. I really hope they structured their wealth into hidden assets before filing. It’s one reason everyone in the USA should own precious metals. A bank account in some of the more unpopular BRICS nations is icing on the cake, but gold and silver are things that are easily accessible to all of us and can function as insurance on the insurance.
I live in Southern Appalachia, so there’s rampant methamphetamine, opioid, and tobacco usage in addition to massive obesity. I read the other day that the average BMI in the USA is 29 for men and 30.5 for women. If that’s true for the entire USA, it has to be at least 31 for men and 35 for women here. I’m going to Korea at the end of the year. A girlfriend there is the main reason, but I think I need a hernia repair operation on the opposite side from one I got in Korea in 2013 or 2014. I forgot to mention that one. It was around $350 at the same hospital as the appendectomy.
I’m really glad things are working out for you in Utah and that you’re not in Illinois, and that you’re enjoying the best things our nation has to offer.
Have never had anything remotely like that happen to me or my family. Did have a1.5 year battle to get a MRI, but once approved surgery happened right away. The gym guys mucked it up. My son is a physician and everything he does has to be approved by an insurer, and he literally could work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is that much approved work for his specialty. Never ending.
The food industry, the healthcare industries and social media gang together to kill our children from early age. 5Y children suffer from insulin resistance.
Go get them !
Classical conservatism would say: raise your children right. Freedom isn’t free. Or else, employ the hated nanny state as GOP called it a few short years ago, to regulate what kind of junk is sold (as Bloomberg recommended). Current “conservatives” are the one happily and noiselessly scraping their dividends off the child-exploitative practices you identify. And Trump does far less than zero on this, excepting the occasional randomly semi-correct current outburst from RFK Jr., amidst a sea of folly from the both of them. I’ve been healthy for decades and it has ZERO to do with MAGA.
It is the same with illicit drugs, Just say no. But of course these phony “conservatives” need to be doing air strikes all over.
In 1800 462 of 1,000 live births were dead by age 5. Now it’s 26. My bet, the 26 is about to go way up.
“start competing on merit, affordability, and access”
You are joking, right? These ideals are the very antithesis of what healthcare in the US is about nowadays.
…with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account….
dollar amount?
restrictions?
scammer protection?
“start competing on merit, affordability, and access”
Do you get outside your bubble much? Many metros in the US have no competing hospitals or care networks because of consolidation. Prime example is Mayo in Rochester, MN and their health care charges reflect that.
Not to mention that in many metros health care access is severely constrained (like the one I live in) and there’s not enough to go around so you’re lucky if you can even get the care you need or want no matter how high of a price you’re willing to pay.
How is access to the hospital severely constrained? Isn’t Mayo one of the top hospitals in the USA?
Some surgical centers are focused on cash pay patients. Here’s one
https://surgerycenterok.com/surgery-prices/
And one example:
Laparoscopic Hernia Repair, Bilateral
$8,673*
Concierge docs don’t take insurance and that’s a lot of the PCP community. either that or they affiliated with large health systems.
Surgery centers and medical imaging clinics accept cash and some even have docs that have no offices…. just a place to do their procedures.
Since we use a health sharing ministry, it’s a bit like buying a car…. you always ask for the cash/no insurance price and it’s a bit shocking to see the delta between the insurance price vs cash price. Everything is negotiable.
When this became our normal, I felt badly about negotiating with docs. No more. You want our business? Give me a competitive cash price or I’ll move on to the next.
It’s kinda good, but it also sucks that healthcare is being treated like buying a CPO Honda.
Democrats have made expanding access to health care a central plank of their party platform. People of good faith may disagree with the way they’ve gone about it. (ACA, insurance etc.) I myself disagree; the solution is a single payer system. But Democrats are legitimately upset that millions of their constituents are going to lose affordable insurance in January. The trend of having less and less uninsured Americans will reverse. Many of us remember how serious a problem medical debt was before the ACA and feel that all that progress is being undone.
So while politically this might harm the Republicans more, a key difference here is that Democrats actually care that constituents are being harmed, and recognize that a political win is not the same as a win for constituents. For this same reason, sustaining the shutdown proved difficult for Democrats because it was going to mean Americans going hungry, and constituents losing jobs.
Democrats have chosen not to follow the Charlie Kirk philosophy where empathy is a woke invention.
But empathy is indeed a temporary weakness in game theory politics.
The real game is to find out just how gullible voters can possibly be, and how many will vote for a party that showed it was willing to starve them rather than give them affordable access to medical care. This is where empathy becomes a strength and not a weakness.
No politician has the stones to fix healthcare – offering a bare bones but servicable public option with commercial insurance serving as add ons/private rooms.
vouchers is another way to do it, but would be difficult to manage.
The Grok quote is not only cruel – it is disingenious. When children are out of food right now, feeding them now is obviously much more important than saving their financials decades from now. Typical Elon nonsense. Even worse, these things are not mutually exclusive.
Whining about an AI answer you don’t like is irrelevant. Fixing an over-reliance on government to do more and more is the core problem, not being late for SNAP.
Same thing with the colleges whining about losing their billions, despite having billions in PE money.
Similar problem, but obviously the colleges should be cut loose first.
Krugman believes the people in general are too stupid to run their own lives. The people need continuous and meticulous supervision at all times from the elite experts in the Professional Managerial class.
His response to anything that would allow the rabble to make their own decisions is entirely predicable.
<<Krugman believes the people in general are too stupid to run their own lives>>
Some are, but not those Krugman thinks. The 2008 crisis was caused by the Professional Managerial class. Going back in history, that class has been responsible for the darkest pages in Western history. The Spanish Inquisition personnel were the then “professional managerial class”. As well as the eugenics crowd in the 20th century, which were considered the Progressives of the times. Under the indifference and nihilism of those “elites”, the Islamic Ottomans reached Vienna at some point. Nowadays they are busy bringing them over here, and printing money to support them, because in the words of one of their evangelists, social cohesion and stability is too boring.
Krugman does not even believe in sound money, he supports the half-baked Keynesian theories without limits. His economic theory is to continuously brake and fix the windows to create artificial economic activity because “resources are unlimited” (while at the same time supporting environmentalism). That’s either hypocrisy or brain damage.
He’s the same Tard Harness that said there is no inflation. It’s just your imagination.
Moan? They should be having a Parade! They ousted Schumer, and He did it to himself. The New Guard is giddy over this. Too easy… Pelosi gone too, it’s like Christmas came early for the New Crowd coming in!!!
The Mish point on the fungible nature of money is spot on. Even if you force these new plans to be aimed only at health care it indirectly funds whatever else that household spends money on a 1:1 basis with health care. I suspect it would be aimed at lower income levels so doubtful it would be on ski trips, I’ll leave it to others to speculate what healthy purchases and behaviours it may fund. However, if like an FSA it must be used for health care, and only health care, in the year it is funded, there is some if ever so small constraint in place. But, can you imagine what health care would look like in November and December each year? Good luck getting an appointment when many are in a is use-free money-or-lose-it mindset. We see it with deductibles already to some extent.
Second point–at least Krugman’s comments at length discuss policy though rambling on in an ideologically simple handout/socialist worldview. Notice Silver is mostly concerned about political power and how the gamesmanship impacts regaining power in 2028. But once Krugman famously mentioned printing a quadrillion dollar coin to expand the money supply his Nobel-ish ramblings don’t hold the same chachet with me. I tire of Democrats taking some false high ground that they are looking out for folks–after all, the ACA was designed to “help” and it clearly has failed. All the programs he mentions and the infinitely more Democrats propose fail and will fail because you and only you can move yourself forward, in aggregate. A government boost should only be temporary and small and it never is so the trap or cycle of need and assistance is unbroken.
Most tiring is all the political theatrics now that plays to social media but doesn’t do a damn thing for the U.S. or the population. They look like grifters not grinders. I want someone that just wants to grind out work, get as good a legislation done as possible and then go back to their districts. The less they help us the better as we have nearly 40 trillion reasons why their brand of help ain’t all that clever. Like banks getting paid on excess reserves, loaned into existence and profited from, running up a tab and spreading it around ain’t sound governing.
We always get to some damn deadline, known about months in advance, and then it becomes political theater and unnecessarily emergent bad policy. What the eff do they do in the meanwhile? Tweet, stand in front of a camera, fundraise behind the scenes without any work to prioritize the next most pressing piece of legislation, debt ceiling avoidance or expiration of existing legislation. It’s bad management writ large. Here we are discussing some UBI-type FSA accounts at the last minute without any details or thoughtful public hashing out of it….throw shit on a wall because you didn’t do the work in August when the deadlines were months away.
Mish, I think the democrats who voted with Trump simply did so based on orders from their rich donors, not because of some grand political strategy. After all, wouldn’t Trump passing UBI guarantee victory for republicans in the midterm elections, and on a policy that could have been a Democratic signature cause that would have rallied their base?
Well, all the Democrats that voted for this are not seeking re-election. So it seems difficult to believe they are all kowtowing to rich donors since they won’t need those donor dollars for their next re-election run.
Got any alternative thoughts why they did it?
Sweetheart, you do know there are other reasons besides seeking reelection for them to listen to their donors, like getting cushy consultants jobs after retiring from politics?
Is it really that hard to believe that people voted for Trump to avoid voting for Headboard Harris?
YOU DON’T GET IT MISH! THE WAY TO FUND UBI IS NOT WITH BONDS I.E. DEBT INSTRUMENTS WHICH CREATES INTEREST TO BE PAID WHICH IN TURN CREATES THE “DEFICIT”, BUT WITH MONETARY GIFTING…WHICH DOESN’T CREATE ANY SUCH NEED TO PAY INTEREST.
AND NO, THE 50% DISCOUNT/REBATE AT RETAIL SALE WON’T CREATE INFLATION, BUT RATHER BENEFICIAL PRICE AND ASSET DEFLATION BECAUSE THE POLICY WILL REDUCE THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING BY HALF. AND NO BECAUSE THE REBATED/GIFTED MONEY BACK TO THE COMMERCIAL AGENT ASPECT OF THE POLICY MAKES THE COMMERCIAL AGENT WHOLE ON THEIR ENTIRE PRICE WITHOUT CREATING THE NECESSITY OF CREATING INTEREST TO BE PAID…EITHER.
DO YOU FINALLY GET IT???
ADDENDUM: NOW THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU CAN’T OR SHOULDN’T ALSO BE ABLE TO CREATE MONEY AS DEBT IF YOU’RE A BANKER OR EVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE INTEREST PAID ON THAT DEBT…IS ACTUALLY A PAYMENT TO/AN INVESTMENT FOR…THE PRIVATE SECTOR. GOT IT???
It is impossible to replace Obamacare by placing 2,000 taxpayer dollars into some low-income redneck’s flexible spending account. That notion is insane. Probably will take around 10,000 taxpayer dollars to take care of all the low-income rednecks, and doing that would be a total disaster. Somebody has to pool the money and manage it. They either hire an insurance company to manage it or the government manages it.
But the Negr–oes and the wet–backs would be getting it too, so your point is kind of hard to take seriously.
Pulte, the idea guy…
Mortgage giant Fannie Mae is set to drop its longstanding credit score minimum later this month
The government-sponsored enterprise announced last Wednesday that as of Nov. 16, it will no longer require a minimum FICO score of 620 for borrowers. Instead, the enterprise will “rely on its own comprehensive analysis of risk factors to determine eligibility.”
Previously, borrowers with a FICO score below 620 would be automatically rejected from Fannie Mae’s underwriting system. Under the new guidelines, though, borrowers, especially first-time homebuyers, could gain access to greater financing options.
Bill Pulte, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which serves as a conservator of Fannie Mae, said in a post on X that the rule change won’t affect the enterprise’s underlying underwriting standards. Instead, it creates more leeway for different types of scores to be considered.
Classic end of bubble desperation move.
I can’t believe that you gave so much space to Krugman. He is one of the most intellectually dishonest men in public life. Remember the ACA was supposed to reduce health care costs because giving people access to health care would improve their health and reduce downstream costs, like emergency room visits. False. And a one-year extension of the ACA subsidies is A TERRIBLE IDEA MISH, because it implies that subsidies make of this size are valid, has them expire around the midterms making them the campaign issue, and ensures that they would roll over for at least another year following next year. Of course the polls show people supporting them, because the regime media never really explained the context. These were never considered as part of the ACA and were only added temporarily during Covid.
I have written one post on Krugman in the past 2-3 years.
That’s a lot of space?
He posted an interesting article worth discussing, so I discussed it.
And apparently you would rather risk UBI than pay a mere $35 billion.
I nominate Krugman for the next FED chair. That sure would be interesting to see. 🙂
I agree with you that this could easily morph into UBI. I find it amazing that you are sure its going to happen because Trump supports it this nanosecond.
You’ve written about Trump enough to know that what he says today has no obvious correlation to what he does tomorrow.
For the record its certainly plausible he follows through. He loves his image on things, trading cards, currency, government checks etc
I expect it but certainly not guaranteed.
It may have difficulty but look at it this way: Every Democrat would rather have something than nothing.
When conservatives realize what they have glommed onto – in essence, the Canadian healthcare system {AOC and Bernie call it Medicare for All} – they will drop this instantly. 100% socialism is coming out of their mouths (their idiotic definition of it).
The Republicans have no healthcare plan. And they never will. They can’t even come close to one as good as Obamacare. Isn’t that obvious by now?
We should go back to paying doctors directly for the 5 minutes of services rendered. Financing surgeries used to be a thing too.
Don’t forget all the medical bankruptcies and deaths that occurred during this “used to be a thing too” period you aspire to – from most people that could not “finance” bankrupting surgeries or treatments.
That’s why the insurance sold should be limited just to cover the catastrophic issues…surgeries too big to finance.
He would LOVE to be the father of UBI. He wouldn’t care at all if it was deemed a terrible idea by future leaders.
“For the record its certainly plausible he follows through. He loves his image on things, trading cards, currency, government checks etc”
That’s the answer a monthly check for $10,000 for everyone with Trump’s picture prominently displayed, no direct deposit, only a paper check with Trump’s picture on the gold envelope and the gold check inside. Perfect until he dies, then what do we do?
Trump now pushing hard for H1b so we don’t have to depend on the lazy unemployed Americans to build missiles for foreign countries
Trump: “You can’t just say a country is going to coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and take people off an unemployment line who haven’t worked in five years and they’re going to start making their missiles. It doesn’t work that way.”
This is where the robots and AI come into play.
Are the payments monthly? $2000 / year isn’t going to last at all, it’s a blip.
Flexible Spending Accounts also don’t roll over from year to year, you’ve got to use it up or loose it. That’s why it’s better for healthcare expenses that are recurring rather than emergencies. Unlike an HSA or HRA.
This free-money offer is incredibly ill-calculated. Just like grocery prices, people (especially the lower 50% in wealth and income) are going to painfully notice immediately 1) premium rises, and 2) the absence of the free money. The Big Beautiful bill was a much more Beautiful Bait and Switch because the (perceived) rug-pulls will happen after the midterms. But Orange Guy doesn’t think that far ahead. He posts at any hour with no consultation. He’s the Sultan of No Consultin’. So far his run of luck and crowd faith hasn’t come up snake-eyes.
Wouldn’t this give-away be incredibly expensive and intrusive to administer and monitor? I can see widespread fraud and abuse of this from day one. But, never face this bunch with principles. It is the era of micro-attention span stunts.
They’d use an existing payment mechanism, possibly even something like SNAP or the ones FEMA has. All they’d need would be to implement rules for approved “health care” expenses and deny the Jack Daniels.
Remember when MAGA was loosing their minds over Biden diverting disaster funds for something called the Shelter and Service program that supported CBP and their ability to find housing for immigrants? Except it wasn’t a diversion of disaster funds, the funds were separate and allocated by Congress (back when Congress sort of functioned,) and FEMA was only involved because they had a payment system (i.e, stored value cards,) that could be used by SSP.
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/fema-disaster-funds-not-diverted-migrants-by-biden-administration-2024-10-23/
Anything that makes Krugman sad is good.
NBER analysis of the OBBBA
It is well-understood that the U.S. faces an unsustainable fiscal future. We review historical budget trends and basic fiscal processes. We provide new estimates of the budget outlook, incorporating the recently enacted One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA), and finding that the debt-GDP ratio will rise to 183% in 2054 under the OBBBA as legislated and to 199% if the temporary tax and spending provisions are made permanent. These figures compare to a current debt-GDP ratio of about 100% and a pre-OBBBA CBO analysis earlier this year that projected the 2054 debt-GDP ratio to be 154%. We estimate a fiscal gap – the permanent tax or spending changes needed to keep the 2054 debt-GDP ratio at its current level – to be about 3.4% of GDP if OBBBA is extended. We discuss the economic and political ramifications of debt and different ways to address the fiscal situation.
Be serious! The sheeple will be quickly fleeced if everyone is making their own deals with hospitals and MD’s.
There isn’t any standard pricing in the medical world. There isn’t a flat-labor book like in auto repair. Consumers don’t know the terminology.
Anyone who has actually looked at their EOB’s from medical services or an outpatient surgical report, which can run 40 pages or more of what things they did and what drugs they gave you and in what amounts during an operation knows that the whole medical payment system has been purposefully designed to obfuscate everything.
Even better, the MAHA orientation of RFKjr guarantees the entry of all the hucksters and scammers (this admin’s people are tops at that) to get all of that tasty government money
In the search for MAHA, the EPA is now allowing the use of “forever chemicals” in pesticides and herbicides in food crops now
whatever could go wrong
Unless you have an insurance company standing between you and the health care provider you are likely to be raked over the coals by the provider. They’ll charge you the outrageous billing amount and you, unlike the insurance company, won’t be in any position to negotiate the amount down to the 30% like the insurance company can. Sure, some providers have a cash price for some things but they’re usually outpatient procedures like dental cleaning or a blood test. Good luck paying cash for open heart surgery or dialysis or cancer treatment unless you’re one of the 1%.
Concur.
Trump signed an executive order expanding school vouchers redirecting federal funds from public schools to private schools. It will give parents more choice in their kids edu. Trump proposed to redirect federal funds from Obamacare to private insurance co.
What do you think Obamacare is?
On Nov 4 the dems couldn’t stop winning, they got Mamdani, but Yuda sold them off.
What they have revealed so far is totally unworkable.
Shutdown’s biggest losers were taxpayers. Federal workers received a free four week paid vacation. No spending cuts negotiated with this extension. Travelers delayed at airports, etc.
Don’t forget randomly banning hemp in order to screw over farmers even harder on a bill that has nothing to do with it. Great job dems! Thanks for reminding voters why we need another party or another system.
Lets see once & for all who ya’ll really are then. If ya for Republicans give this an upvote, if ya for Democrats give this a downvote, if ya independent comment “Independent” & if ya think they are all controlled theatre comment “Slaves”. Thanks
And those of you with an exit strategy write, “FREEDOM!” like Mel Gibson in Bravehart.
Do you mind not trying to hijack my survey? I guess people are in the closet, like their comments isn’t revealing anyway. FREEDOM or exit strategies have zero to do with anything.
The Democrats were stupid to think they had any leverage to gain anything from the shutdown. I think SNAP was the final straw to get them to cave. This was a Schumer shutdown. The Republicans will take a hit in the mid terms due to the economy even though voting for Democrats will make the economy worse. Congress needs to DRASTICALLY cut spending which neither side seems to care enough to vote for it.
You are stupid to think they gained nothing.
I do agree we need to cut spending. The actual result may be a massive increase over time.
So what is the cost of this? How many people qualify? & How much is the payment worth to each recipient? Are these actually known?
Excellent Question.
Cassidy proposed the entirety of Obamacare forever.
Republicans will take a huge hit…but because of the Gaza atrocities they supported. Look at Candace Owens’ ratings, nutcase or no, Americans are siding with the splinter conservative movement of MTG/Massie and turning on Benedict Donald.
What did Krugman say that wasn’t factually correct? Whether you believe government should provide health coverage for everyone or not. Republican philosophy is to oppose these type programs. Why not own it and say so.
Arguably nothing. See first addendum and Grok’s reply.
I said before & will say it again. The reason why this was done has zero to do with insurance, it’s another stimulus & desperate attempt at propping up the hyperbubble.
The shutdown was & is all theatre, this is why they didn’t choose the 1yr extension & cheapest option, by giving the sheeple cash to their hands (Bank accounts) they will spend it or as soon as it’s paid be sucked up by banks to repay their debts, overdraft, loans, credit cards, autoloans, student debt. This is the game, give them cash so the bnaks can swipe it off them as it hits their accounts or for the very few spend it gambling on stocks or spend it on stuff they do not need.
Think about it, if $3 grand is deposited into an account & they got a $5 grand overdraft it’s gone, vanishes as the banks then reduce their overdraft to $2 grand. You get it? This is designed to slow the defaults that are skyrocketing, the Grifter In Chief love corporations & that includes insurance companies, he gave em trillions already while screwing the poor, why would he go against them now? He isn’t, the banks need the cash more, especially when SOFR recently indicated they are extremely nervous about something.
The desperation is palpable if you look through the smoke & mirrors, whenever The Grifter in Chief presents himself as altruistic you know he’s a liar. Ballrooms anyone?
The first rule of the game of Chicken is that you have to be prepared to die. Trump was. The Dems weren’t.
And Trump will take the midterm hit.
What does it matter if Trump takes a midterm hit Mish if he’s a slave to the same idiots the Democrats are. Call me cynical, conspiracy theorist or whatever. It’s fact, this is a game of the few rich making sure the 90% majority stay down & they stay in charge.
trump is only frightened of epstein files.
Epstein, Gaza, unwanted war with Venezuela. Those three betrayals are enough to make a third of conservatives sit out the midterms. 50 year mortgages are just the cherry on top (for the Democrats).
What’s the book in the Irish pubs on that? How about Jimmy The Greek?
THat’s a year away. Voter memories are short and Trump will introduce a lot of distraction by then.
The Dems may well come out on top in the midterms , although that is not guaranteed, but unless they get super-majorities in both sides of Congress, Trump will veto anything they try to pass until his term is up, 2 years later.
And that is based on Trump not declaring an emergency of some sort that requires martial law and the suspension of voting.
The Grifter in Chief isn’t prepared to die, if he was he wouldn’t have bone spurs, wouldn’t call soldiers suckers & if you believe he escaped assassination you’re dumber than dirt. All theatre, I can’t even begin to list the hundreds of flaws in that dumb story.
Jon Stewart went bazonkers last night on The Daily Show, also accusing the Dems of caving. I fail to see it.
So the Dem won a few small elections? What did/will this change? The answer is nothing. Mandami doesn’t take office to January and he isn’t going to be able to bring much of, if anything of his promises to fruition. And NYC is not representative of the USA as a whole.
Had the Dems continued to hold out, Federal workers would have continued not to get paid, and for those living on the edge, falling further into debt and possibly being evicted from their homes or losing their cars with no guarantee that back pay would be delivered.
SNAP recipients MIGHT have gotten 50% of their November allocation but certainly would not have gotten more as the special fund that would be used to pay those monies was too small.
The Republicans are happy to allow the ENHANCED ACA subsidies to expire, even if it affected MTG kids [lol]. Dems will ultimately get blamed for putting a sunset date on them.
So I don’t see where the Dems thought they were winning or might win.
I explained – Democrats won.
You refuse to see the obvious.
The Republicans just totally embraced the single payor healthcare system: Canada. Even Hillarycare had at least some capitalism in it. I have no idea what will happen once they figure this out. Think it’s called heads exploding.
There is no basis on which to expect consistency or adherence to principles from a Trump-led Republican party, as relates to fiscal matters. The record is to the contrary. That doesn’t absolve the Dems of their follies either.
Won what? Has Trump or his team made any changes based on these “wins”? Is anything different? Tell me what is changed.
Just more Krugman distractors; no mention of all the elephants in the room. The empire is totally broke and can’t pay for this. No mention of health insurance companies gouging. No mention of possibly paying for this in exchange for decreased government spending elsewhere. Krugman just wants endless money printing and endless currency devaluation.
“What’s In the Deal?
Do you have the link to the legislative text for this? Try as I might, I can’t find it.
I provided discussion in a previous post. At least one Democrat senator was thrilled. But also look at Trump’s Truth Social post!
“Why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide?” Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council said on CBS’s Face the Nation.
“Republicans are now talking about how they want to go after big insurance companies,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee. “If they’re serious, I’m all in.”
“Let’s just move beyond our trench line, and let’s actually think creatively,” said Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy (R., La.), the proponent of the leading idea, on the Senate floor Saturday. “And can we give just a little bit to find something which actually benefits the patient but may also get us out of this situation?”
https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/republicans-pitch-alternative-to-aca-extension-to-end-government-shutdown-3be838e3?st=ct8h8k&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
Second Link:
https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cassidy-delivers-floor-speech-to-demand-end-to-shutdown-call-for-action-to-lower-health-costs-for-american-families/
Cassidy “Instead of paying insurance companies to manage our money, let’s trust Americans to manage their own care — with a pre-funded Federal Flexible Spending Account.”
It is impossible it will be anything like the current flexible spending accounts, Though I suspect that what many Republicans think: we’ll give them some healthcare trinkets. Like buying Manhattan for beads. The flexible spending account would have to be able to pay for some enormous hospital bills.
Exactly! A friend at my health club had a heart operation. It cost over $1 million! Is Congress going to be handing out sums like that to consumers? [ROTFLOL]
Whew. That’s not UBI. It’s a Health Savings Account. And it will do nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare and therefore health insurance.
Would you please think ahead as to where that goes.
And it is UBI.
It is far beyond a Health Savings Account.
WSJ:
It isn’t clear exactly how the Cassidy accounts would work. Flexible-spending accounts, which are typically used with employer coverage, not ACA plans, are tax-advantaged setups that consumers can fund themselves, up to around $3,300 a year. The tax-free money can then be used for a variety of health needs that would typically be paid for out of the enrollee’s pocket, including toward hospital or doctor care, or other expenses such as glasses. However, the money can’t be used to pay an insurance premium.
A different type of account, known as a health savings account, or HSA, can currently be used with ACA plans, but they are only allowed if the coverage has a deductible above a certain level—now set at $1,650 for an individual or $3,300 for a family.
A third type of setup, known as an individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement, can be used in a different way. Employers can put money in these accounts, and the funding can be applied toward workers’ premiums for coverage that they purchase themselves through the ACA marketplaces.
Mish: This is none of the above as I see it. Money will be handed out by the Government. UBI
Jojo see addendum 3 and tell me where I am wrong?
Call it whatever you will. I have long posted here that in 20-30 years there will not be any money, an AI will be running everything, robots will be doing all the work and everything will be free. Is that UBI? Does it matter?
This plan is never going to fly anyway. Insurance companies have a sweet game going now. They will be fighting against any major changes and threatening Congress with pulling their campaign donations if they don’t kill any plans that radically affect their currently lucrative business model.
You don’t think the Dems will tweak it, when they get in charge. The key word is “start”.
“They held on long enough for Republicans to get clobbered in November elections, long enough for Obamacare premiums to rise, long enough for Republicans to get most of the blame, long enough to see Trump try in the courts to kill SNAP benefits, and long enough for some air traffic jams to happen.”
You hit the nail on the head and earned yourself a 3-star Mishelin on this post for astute insight, analysis, and triggering MAGA (there will be triggered). Dems were playing 5D chess while Trump/GOP can’t find the jacks.
Republican socialism or democrat socialism all ends the same way and there’s only one way out……
Krugman is a proponent of Modern Monetary Theory.
He doesn’t care about deficits or interest expense.
The Fed is literally a blank check to this guy.
Anything he says to do means we should do the exact opposite.
Mamdani is about the only politician to Krugman’s left.
Krugman has no children to care about.
If Krugman hates it, it must be better than I thought.
@steve…my sentiments exactly!
Krugman pretends to hate it so you think it’s better than you thought.
There is something about all those massive insurance cartel towers in every city dwarfing the hospitals. And their billionaire bosses, and the minions of pencil pushers within and on the highways, not a single one treating patients or producing anything. And the mountains of junk mail selling what? PARASITES ALL, only there to insert themselves into your medical costs and feed off the gov subsidies. It makes me wonder WHY?
Thank you!
Let the dems whine.
Music to my ears.
Just wait and see what happens in New York. That is the canary in the coal mine.
Do New Yorkers have an exit plan???
Did you pay attention to the elections?
NYC was the only place democrats underperformed the polls.
This might help….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy
It’s a disgusting system from top to bottom. the free market answer, which is the right one, no one will tolerate.