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Second Black Box From Mysterious Boeing Plane Crash in China Discovered, Questions Abound

The Wall Street Journal reports Second Black Box Found at China Eastern Plane Crash Site

A team of firefighters from southern China’s Guangxi autonomous region, where the aircraft nosedived into a mountainside, found the second black box Sunday around 9:20 a.m., Zhu Tao, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Administration of China, said in a news conference. The box was roughly 130 feet away from where the plane had crashed, buried several feet underground, he said.

Rescuers had located the first black box, the cockpit voice recorder, on Wednesday, but authorities said they hadn’t been able to detect the positioning signal of the second box and speculated its signal transmitter may have been damaged in the crash.

The discovery of the black boxes—both of which are actually painted orange to make them easier to spot—is a critical moment in the aftermath of a plane crash, as they store vital information and typically provide accident investigators the best information about what caused a plane to go down.

The flight-data recorder tracks more than 1,000 flight details, such as airspeed and altitude, the status of smoke alarms and the position of the wing flaps. Parts of the recorder had been seriously damaged, but the data storage compartment appeared relatively intact, Mr. Zhu said, adding that the box has been sent to a professional laboratory for analysis.

Mysterious Plunge 

Boeing 737 crash in southern China was among the fastest jetliner descents ever recorded. The Plane Plunged Almost 22,000 Feet in 72 Seconds

Then the plane briefly ascended again before the final plunge and crash.

It is “extremely unusual to see an aircraft in a full nose dive,” one industry safety official in the U.S. said. “Many of us are scratching our heads.”

Hopefully, the black boxes will explain what happen. 

Analysis can begin now that both black boxes have been recovered. I have my own questions.

Mish Questions

  • Why are there two black boxes, each of which needs to be recovered?
  • Instead, why aren’t there two mirrored black boxes, each with 100% of the data needed? 

Authorities were concerned second box transmitter may have failed. In addition to not being found, the data may also be damaged in impact. 

What’s the reason for having two boxes, both or which need to be recovered to get the complete picture?

One person responded with some information on why two, but if two are needed, then OK why not duplicate the most important one? Or better yet both of them?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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30 Comments
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Lazyblondog
Lazyblondog
4 years ago
1. The really stupid, obvious question on ‘black box’ technology is, “Why aren’t the systems (particularly voice) battery powered so if main power is interrupted, they still record to impact?” Avoiding battery drain/data overwrite can be done so it will run ONLY if the system suddenly looses power during an accident (e.g. Y2K generator cut overs and GENERAC), off switch at the gate, etc.
Then, on the obvious arkancide angles so far ignored by the Main Stream Press:
2. Who was the passenger traveling to give a deposition about the Clinton Foundation?
3. Likewise, was there someone who knew about Hunter on the plane who had escaped from detention in interior China and was connecting to an unmarked Trump plane at destination to be the surprise guest at the next Trump rally?
‘Asking for a tovarishch!
dpy
dpy
4 years ago
Several places reported that the woman known as “Fang Fang” was a passenger.
JRM
JRM
4 years ago
When I heard about the details of the crash, my first impression was pilot or co pilot intentionally crashed it!!!
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  JRM
I was thinking the same
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
By the way, I wouldn’t classify a plane crashing as mysterious when you see the crash site and know what happen. MH370 is still a mystery. Almost all plane crashes are not mysterious once the facts are ascertained.
Calling everything mysterious only contributes to the conspiracy theorists way of thinking.
Economics has more mystery to it in the digital age than plane crashes.
Brexitologist
Brexitologist
4 years ago
Dozens military airplanes lost already exactly the same way while attempting to land. Pilots and pilot associations insist in post-vax adverse effects. In this case the pilot apparently suddenly passed away with the full weight of his dead body leaning on plane controls thus plummeting with a VERTICAL path downwards and finally crashing 90 degrees with ground level — VIDEOS available — no airplane accident ever crashed VERTICAL as airplanes glide down in a tangent. Strict nosedive no gliding tangent. Even if fuel rans out shutting down power or huge birds impact turbine blades there is NO possibility of following that trayectory other than pilot physically imposing it with full force. After nosediving only for a few seconds gravity simply takes over with the enormous weight of a fully loaded plane on its favor critical speed is reached overriding any attempt to physically change anything no possibility of anbody being able to stand up on a vertical trayectory trying to remove the dead weight of the pilot from landing controls. Recently several military planes have gone down this exact same way, some with better luck with pilot ejection but still destroyed aircraft .
wmjack50
wmjack50
4 years ago
The NTSB has 500 employees(most political) and 500 million dollar budget and three years to do little–One of the best jobs in DC
On Utube “Probable Cause” generally figures out the reason for Air Accidents within two days for free—
The Chinese crash required someone to be pushing forward on the yoke—thus Suicide by pilot—as a jetliner cannot fly into the ground as this one did if the yoke is free from preasure
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Isn’t a bit too early to speculate why a plane went done hardly a week after? These investigations take years before they find the likely answer so why is this considered a topic of conversation when we don’t know anything and those who comment don’t know anything more than we do?
Esclaro
Esclaro
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Those who comment are experts in everything and have studied extensively at the Facebook School of Aeronautics.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Some of us think we’re experts at spotting Russian agents.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“The flight data recorder was buried almost 5 feet underground, roughly 130 feet from where plane made impact.”
That seems kind of odd. If it plowed into the ground with the rest of the plane, i could understand it being 5 feet underground, but not 130 feet away.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
In car crashes, people not buckled in with open windows sometime wind-up some distance from the wreck. The boxes are heavy and if the dirt in that area were soft, that could explain everything.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
List of accidents and incidents involving the Boeing 737
737 Next Generation (-600/-700/-800/-900) aircraft
TheCaptain
TheCaptain
4 years ago
OK so while they look for some technical reason why the plane went down, lets also consider something else just to pass the time.
This is just for fun, OK?
We know that the US government thinks it can kill anyone it wants to for any reason it wants to. Members of US congress have suggested that we just assassinate putin. And biden himself said putin cannot be allowed to continue to run Russia. So its clear that our leadership likes to play G_d. At the same time, we know that China is watching stuff happening in Russia and there are concerns that China might use this time to invade Taiwan. Finally, anyone who doesn’t think that the US has the power to use satellite based data transmission to control every single jet liner that Boeing builds is living in fantasy land. It is a capability that they would not want to talk about for obvious reasons but we know for a fact that US government has embedded spyware in Cisco routers bound for foreign countries. This is such low hanging fruit that I cannot be the only person to have thought of it and so you can be sure that government has the ability to crash, on demand and in case that it was viewed in our national security interests, any US made commercial airliner made in the past decade.
With that in mind, let’s see the passenger list. Who was on that flight that it might be in our interest to arrange a meeting with their maker.
Like I said, just for fun…
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  TheCaptain
I will play along for fun. MH370 had 3 passengers on it of Russian origin (2 Ukrainians from eastern Ukraine and 1 from Russia). The plane disappeared in the days after Crimea was invaded. I would love to see the passenger list of the China plane as well but I don’t suspect this is the asymmetric warfare you are thinking. The US doesn’t do what Putin does. An old Boeing plane that wasn’t retrofitted with updated cabling would lose power quickly and crash. This wasn’t a new Boeing plane.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago

The French journalist Florence de Changy, in her recent book about MH370 entitled “The Disappearing Act,” includes a passage about the Ukrainians (from the Russian-occupied areas of Eastern Ukraine):

The two Ukrainians arrive together, in the last few minutes of boarding, and they look far more energetic than their fellow passengers. They have the physiques of US Marines and wear body-hugging black T-shirts. Each has a large carry-on bag, and they whisk them on to the conveyor belt with practised ease. I found out much later that their tickets were the only ones that were completely untraceable by the investigators. No idea where they were purchased, no travel agent, no method of payment, no place of issue. Highly abnormal apparently. The two men happened to be seated on row 27, right below the Satcom antenna.
Of all the passengers who board the flight, if you had to pick out two as being hijackers, the Ukrainians are the ones who best look the part, in terms of age, physical condition, appearance and body language.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
The bigger question in MH-370 is the 20 minute holding pattern off the coast of Sumatra for NO reason.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“The US doesn’t do what Putin does.”
We don’t know what the government does in secret.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
A simple google search reveals why there are two black boxes. The cockpit voice recorder is straightforward but the flight data recorder has much more information.
The flight data recorder

While voice communications and other audio clues are important, the flight data recorder chronicles other information, and over a longer time period. “The flight data recorder is much more complex,” Cox says, as it records a multitude of variables.

This data can include information like plane’s “altitude, the heading, the ground speed, rate of climb, the selected mode of the autopilot, whether the landing gear is up or down, the position of the flaps, [and] whether the pressurization system switches and functions are all normal,” Cox says. “It just records all the parameters in the airplane of things that move, or are relevant to the operation of the airplane.”

And while the cockpit voice recorder is designed to keep two hours of audio, the flight data recorder goes back further. “The flight data recorders have enormous memory,” he says, estimating they can maintain seven to eight days of data. That means that if investigators have access to this data, they can consider information from multiple flights. “They can look back at previous flights on the flight data recorder to see how the accident flight would relate,” Cox says.

Brickhouse notes that the raw data that this device stores “looks just like a bunch of code,” but it can be converted into “an animation, or recreation, of the flight,” that shows what happened. For example, this video from the NTSB of a 2020 crash of a cargo aircraft utilizes data from the flight data recorder and other sources.

Ziad
Ziad
4 years ago
Ok, but Mish’s question still stands. Why can’t there be 2 flight data recorders and 2 cockpit voice recorders on every flight? I’m no engineer, but is seems easy enough to do. Or are data recorder boxes so big and bulky that only one would fit?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Ziad
With today’s technology, why is telemetry/other data, etc not constantly beamed to satellites
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Cost too much they say.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I was wondering the same. Why not transmit a stream of data? Basically every plane and airport could be a router. Store the data on hard drives. The data is small and hard drives are dirt cheap. There may be instances where the stream would fail, but getting a data stream most of the time is better than nothing.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Ziad
My understanding is the just retrofitting planes is difficult. I believe some new mandates were issued and black box technology updates are imminent on newer planes. The black boxes themselves were never designed to be field upgradable units
I dunno all the details but I’m an engineer and while it seems like it should have happen by now, it is understandable why it hasn’t given the slowness of changes in the aviation industry.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
OK why not duplicate the most important one? Or better yet both of them?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Don’t now this for sure in this case, but unless “it was an old plane” is the reason (in which case I’m not surprised newer ones have developed a penchant for falling out of the sky….); it’s likely in order to isolate subsystems from each other.
In systems and components deemed critical for safety, behavior resulting from darned near every possible combination of inputs, has to be almost deterministically accounted for and audited. “It passed tests” don’t really cut it as far as deploying added functionality to those kinds of systems. Resulting in the added cost and complexity from adding anything to them, becoming almost impossibly high. Absolutely anything which does not, in the very strictest sense, need to be connected to those systems, will be kept separate.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The more important question is, where are they located? The two boxes could be at the opposite ends of the plane, which would make sense to me.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
So, one records what the plane is doing, and the other records what the pilots are thinking? That makes sense. They are probably located in different parts of the plane, I presume.
As for why not duplicate one or both, I guess the question is, how often do they fail to recover them both? I don’t really follow this, but it seems like they are almost always recovered, except in very unusual cases like MH370, and considering that the entire plane vanished in that case, they could have had 5 of each recorder, and none would have been found. I would guess that the aeronautics experts would have a grasp on the issue on how often duplication would be useful.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Exactly. They usually find both recorders or neither. It’s rare not to find the recorders.

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