Supreme Court Oral Arguments Hint Trump May Lose on Reciprocal Tariffs

Polymarket odds plunged as low as 28 percent, now 31 percent.

Court Skeptical

The Supreme Court heard oral arguments today on reciprocal tariffs. But it may take a while for a ruling.

Axios reports Supreme Court Sounds Skeptical of Trump’s Wide-Ranging Tariffs

The big picture: Some of the conservative justices seemed skeptical that Trump has the power to impose such far-reaching tariffs. A ruling against Trump could be devastating to one of his signature second-term priorities.

Driving the news: The court heard oral arguments on Wednesday in a challenge to a slew of Trump’s tariffs, including the “Liberation Day” levies and a separate set imposed on Canada, Mexico and China.

  • At least two of the likely swing votes in this case — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett — indicated they may be inclined to slap down, or at least curb, the lion’s share of the tariffs.
  • “The vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans, and that has always been a core power of Congress,” Roberts said during the arguments.

Catch up quick: A federal appeals court ruled that many of Trump’s tariffs are illegal, leaning on the same basic logic that the Supreme Court used to strike down some of President Biden’s most sweeping uses of unilateral authority.

  • The Supreme Court’s “major questions doctrine” holds that the executive branch can’t enact programs that have “vast economic and political significance” without explicit authorization from Congress.
  • The justices used that doctrine to strike down Biden’s plan for student-loan forgiveness and a COVID-era eviction moratorium. Trump’s tariffs have vastly bigger economic and political significance than either of those policies, courts in the tariff cases ruled, and therefore run afoul of the major questions doctrine.
  • What they’re saying: Roberts noted that Trump is claiming “a power to impose tariffs on any product, from any country, for any amount, for any length of time.”
  • “It does seem like that’s major authority,” Roberts said.
  • Between the lines: The Justice Department argued first that Congress has, in fact, given the president sweeping tariff powers.
  • But the statute it’s relying on hasn’t been used this way before, and some of the conservative justices seemed skeptical of the administration’s rationale.
  • “It’s pretty clear that Congress was trying to constrain the emergency powers of the president,” not expand them, Barrett said.

Yes, but: Oral arguments are an imperfect guide to how the justices are likely to rule, and the court’s conservatives asked tough questions of all sides.

  • Roberts questioned whether a ruling against Trump would unfairly tie the president’s hands in foreign policy. Barrett also expressed concern about restricting trade too heavily, and about the process of reimbursing businesses for tariffs they’ve already paid.
  • Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito seemed firmly on Trump’s side, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh seemed to be leaning in that direction. The three liberal judges appeared united against Trump.

Please reconsider what I had to say ahead of the Appeal Court Ruling.

I gave an assessment of the the justices individually.

Trump Needs an Activist Court to Win

I discussed this on August 27, in Can Trump’s Tariff Revenues Help Pay for the Federal Budget Deficit?

It would be amazing if the appeals court ruled for Trump. But the key question is how the Supreme Court will rule.

Recall that the Court ruled against Biden on student loans largely on the basis of the “major question”. There are even more reasons to strike the idea here.

However, although it’s constitutionally clear, a ruling against Trump is by no means certain.

Hypothetical Vote Count

The three liberal justices are certain to vote against Trump. That means we need two more.

Pair 1: Barrett and Roberts  
Pair 2: Barrett and Gorsuch
Pair 3: Gorsuch and Roberts

If I am correct, I think Barrett is already on board. I can’t help but think Roberts will go with the majority, and perhaps decide. 

If it’s pair 2, add Roberts for a 6-3 decision. The bigger the majority, the more cover for all of them.

So expect an appeals court ruling against Trump. Then we will see if common sense, precedent, major questions, and emergencies apply to Republican presidents as well as Democrats.

No Surprises Here

In today’s oral arguments, my deciding trio came into play. We did not hear from Gorsuch today that I am aware of.

I especially like Barrett’s comment “It’s pretty clear that Congress was trying to constrain the emergency powers of the president,” not expand them.

In the no surprise column, Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito seemed firmly on Trump’s side, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh seemed to be leaning in that direction.

I always figured Trump had 3 solid votes and 3 liberal justices would go the other way.

The trio I discussed well in advance Barrett, Roberts, and Gorsuch are highly likely to decide the case.   

Edit – Gorsuch

The Wall Street Journal notes Justice Gorsuch Grapples with Textualism Concerns.

Justice Neil Gorsuch is well known for holding two firm convictions about legal theory: He is deeply concerned with the Constitution’s separation of powers, and he is a strict textualist who tries to read the words of a statute literally. His comments today suggest that this case may involve a tension between those two strains of his jurisprudence.

Earlier in the argument, in a series of questions to the solicitor general, he emphatically suggested that any attempt by Congress to delegate broad tariff authority to the president would violate the separation of powers.

But later, in an exchange with lawyer Neal Katyal, he suggested that a textualist reading of the statute at issue might favor Trump, because the statute’s language about authorizing the president to “regulate” imports is written broadly.

“Regulate is a capacious verb,” Gorsuch said.

The linchpin, Gorsuch then suggested, might be the “major questions doctrine”—the rule that Congress needs to be especially clear if it wants to authorize the president to enact transformative policies.

Do you need ‘major questions’ to win?” Gorsuch said to Katyal. “I think you might.

Gorsuch could go either way. If the case goes against Trump, Roberts will try hard to get Gorsuch on board making it 6-3.

Roberts will not want to take the wrath of Trump for the decision. A 6-3 decision will allow less complaining, but complaining there would be anyway.

I am a big fan of separation of powers and the “major questions” issue. It was on those grounds Biden lost his cases on student loans.

Too many people afflicted with Trump Worship Syndrome (TWS) want major questions only to apply to Democrats.

Looking Ahead

Trump is highly likely to use other means and other tariff authorities to achieve the same end.

I discussed this in advance too.

On June 6, I surmised (prematurely because this is still uncertain)  Reciprocal Tariffs Are Dead, but Trump Has 7 Other Options to Discuss

Trump wants to maneuver around the court’s tariff crackdown. His success will be limited.

Although his “success” will limited, Trump can and will do many more damaging actions.

Following the Appeals Court ruling, on August 30 I commented Trump Moans About Tariff Ruling, Puts Direct Pressure on 4 Supreme Court Justices

Pressure is on Justices Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Alito.

Trump Will Double Steel and Aluminum Tariffs to 50 Percent

On May 31, I commented Trump Will Double Steel and Aluminum Tariffs to 50 Percent

Insistent that US manufacturers who use steel will pay still more, especially the auto industry and small businesses, Trump Says Steel and Aluminum Tariffs Will Double to 50%.

Steel and aluminum tariffs are incredibly stupid. However, they are far more likely to stick because the Supreme Court may not want to buck Trump on matters of national security.

On grounds of national security, Trump kicked the US with absurd tariffs on steel and aluminum.

The aluminum tariffs have already backfired as discussed previously.

On September 6, I noted Trump’s Aluminum Tariffs Seriously Backfire Already

Tariffs did not and will not bring production back to the US.

And so here we are. Trump will impose more stupid tariffs on more stupid grounds.

If common sense prevails, the reciprocal tariffs will bite the dust with the rationale of Barrett leading the way.

I still caution this is not over until it’s over, but I am pleased with how things sit, and if I can say so, my analysis to date.

Addendum

I added an inline edit on comments from Justice Gorsuch.

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40 Comments
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Greg
Greg
4 months ago

The Supreme Court may save Trump from himself.

Neil
Neil
4 months ago

If the SC rules against Trump, it will be a big win for him. Because then he can stop the tariffs that make him unpopular while maintaining that they woudl have worked if he hadn’t been stopped by “activist judges” or whatever label he will use. The best thing to happen for him would be to lose this in a 5-4 vote.

Avery2
Avery2
4 months ago

How are “I’m Not A Biologist”and “No Standing” justices doing?

JCH1952
JCH1952
4 months ago

They’re negotiating for more money.

Brutus Admirer
Brutus Admirer
4 months ago

I’m disappointed that Alito and Thomas, who are usually very logical, are leaning towards supporting Trump’s over-reach.

Frosty
Frosty
4 months ago

Three things regarding the trump deficit:

  1. Tariffs may have to be re-paid (or, a portion thereof).
  2. As soon as the shutdown is over, borrowing will explode as Federal workers are made whole and receive interest on their back wages.
  3. Republicans are going to have to give in someday as they can not delay the Epstein vote forever!

Got popcorn and gold mining stocks? They are on sale right now.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
4 months ago

If the shutdown cont TGA may reach $2T. The inflow cont. Only a partial outflow. A smaller gov, cancelled project, lower rates ==> there may be enough surplus for rainy days or for cutting debt, or for both.

njbr
njbr
4 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

whatta dreamer

Harry
Harry
4 months ago

As a perfectly ignorant bystander, Trump will be allowed an off-ramp if it comes to that.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
4 months ago

TGA: $958B. Trump’s coffer is growing. ISM service PMI: 52.5

Last edited 4 months ago by Michael Engel
RJM Consulting
RJM Consulting
4 months ago

Can we please use “Trump” or Trump* when referring to the promulgation of executive orders? Donald Trump the golfer/grifter/showman is no more generating these policy decisions and finely detailed “zone splitting” orders than I am. He is not the “Patrick Mahomes” of the GOP playbook; more like the hapless Zach Wilson.

Avery2
Avery2
4 months ago
Reply to  RJM Consulting

What about Daniel Patrick Moynihan?

Brad Hills
Brad Hills
4 months ago

I’m all for removing tariffs.

tboneman
tboneman
4 months ago

I have read that if he loses the government will be forced to repay the money collected.
Where will the Treasury get it from?
What will be the effects on interest rates?

JCH1952
JCH1952
4 months ago
Reply to  tboneman

They will get it from an account maintained by the US Treasury.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
4 months ago

Two takeaways for me from today’s SCOTUS session:

1) Tariffs likely to lose based on the Major Questions Doctrine, and it having been used as SCOTUS’s foundation for reversing Biden’s student debt forgiveness – it will be hard to spin not denying Trump on this while denying Biden on student debt

2) CJ Roberts is extremely skeptical here. It seems the normal pattern is going to play out, 3 libs fixed NO Tariffs, Alito/Thomas fixed YES, Kavanaugh’s vote won’t matter, and Roberts is likely to pull ACB along with him, continuing her nuanced evolution on the bench

Let’s see what tomorrow brings

not msn
not msn
4 months ago

I’m afraid the court will decide on the basis of hypotheticals rather than the very real case that POTUS has repeatedly claimed that the long-term deficit issue is an emergency and we will make tons of revenue.

They might claim it’s still in the sphere of national security and he gets deference. Which is nuts.

njbr
njbr
4 months ago
Reply to  not msn

the tariff revenue will never significantly reduce the debt

Albert
Albert
4 months ago

I listened to part of the oral argument, and this is a pretty fair summary of where things stand. The main concern Roberts and Barrett seemed to have is the administrative chaos that could ensue if the Trump tariffs are ruled illegal.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
4 months ago
Reply to  Mike Shedlock

Instead of coaching Trump about the law the SC is likely to approve tariffs, bc Trump will get his tariffs either ways, using section C instead of section BS. They will get rid of him bc he already activated the SC twice a week.

Last edited 4 months ago by Michael Engel
Six000MileYear
Six000MileYear
4 months ago
Reply to  Mike Shedlock

If I were SCOTUS, I would declare the Trade Act of 1974 unconstitutional because it violates separation of powers.

US Constitution Article 1, Section 8 gives CONGRESS the power to pass duties, with a tariff is. Congress cannot delegate its taxing power, especially after the Chevron Deference ruling (permitting regulatory agencies in the executive branch to enact laws) was overturned.

Tony Frank
Tony Frank
4 months ago

While hopeful that the Supreme Court will do the right thing, based on experience, I would not count the number of chickens until they actually hatch.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
4 months ago
Reply to  Tony Frank

Some chickens may eat other eggs before they can hatch, you never know in today’s America.

Brutus Admirer
Brutus Admirer
4 months ago
Reply to  Tony Frank

Ambrose Bierce definition of “appeal”: In law, to put the dice into the box for another throw.

JeffD
JeffD
4 months ago

And Moody’s credit rating for the USA should fall from Aa1 to Aa2 as long term bond yields shoot higher. S&P is the rating agency most likely to be honest, and downgrade to AA or AA-.

Last edited 4 months ago by JeffD
JeffD
JeffD
4 months ago
Reply to  JeffD

As Wilbur Ross said, the best thing the Supreme Court could do here is a compromise — don’t let Trump tariff Canada for running a Ronald Reagan advertisement, and disallow a Trump tariff on Brazil because of how Brazil has treated Bolsonaro. The economic tariffs should be allowed to stand, since there is an actual link to long term national security there.

Last edited 4 months ago by JeffD
not msn
not msn
4 months ago
Reply to  JeffD

It’s not clear at all which are economic tariffs as Trump always mixes up issues and when he negotiates he tends to accept both economic and non-economic compensation.

RJM Consulting
RJM Consulting
4 months ago
Reply to  JeffD

Having an economic or even a ‘long term” national security “link” doesn’t justify ignoring precedent and creating further constitutional confusion viz. separation of powers. There is no “little bit pregnant” with ignoring stare decisis.Roberts wants a legacy of coherence. And good luck to him…

Avery2
Avery2
4 months ago
Reply to  JeffD

Is he still alive? I thought he was buried at some old steel mill superfund site.

dtj
dtj
4 months ago

I no longer think it’s tinfoil to expect elections to be suspended due to a national “emergency” caused by “domestic terrorists”, aka protestors.

How long will it take the Supreme Court to hear the case?

threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 months ago
Reply to  dtj

He certainly seems keen to expel protestors protesting the one thing you’re not allowed to protest.

not msn
not msn
4 months ago
Reply to  dtj

Elections are conducted by the states so it’s not clear how that would be done.

Sending troops of some sort to _specific_ left leaning areas would not be out of the picture though.

randocalrissian
randocalrissian
4 months ago
Reply to  dtj

It will take about 12 Aileen Cannons to hear the case, in terms of the duration.

Casual Observer
Casual Observer
4 months ago

Him losing this case wouldn’t be the worst thing for him. I predict after last night’s election results, Trump may go more mainstream Republican and very soon. He knows his legacy is at stake now. That is more important to him more than any policy. He wants to be as popular as Reagan, Clinton or Obama were as outgoing 2 term presidents.

On a very different topic, the following is going to be more problematic for Trump.

The volume of US corporate bonds that’ve dropped from investment-grade to junk status has grown to $42 billion this year from $6 billion last yr: Barclays. The percentage of IG bonds on watch for downgrade to junk is nearing its highest level in a decade: Barclays, via @Bloomberg

John Dunham
John Dunham
4 months ago

Elections were as expected. Solid blue states and cities voted…well soviet red

Last edited 4 months ago by John Dunham
John CB
John CB
4 months ago

I hadn’t seen the bond downgrades. Thank you. This could get so ugly with even a little recession . . . then what does the political class do?

Frosty
Frosty
4 months ago
Reply to  John CB

Think higher interest rates on our debt!

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
4 months ago

RR was a soft talk Barry Goldwater. Trump is a centric. The dems shifted to the center. The same people who voted for Trump voted for dems. Chuck had a good night. Bernie scold Chuck: u didn’t support Mamdani. What a jerk.

Last edited 4 months ago by Michael Engel
TEF
TEF
4 months ago

Concur with thoughts. Thomas and Alito appeared to be giving the president ideas about end running the law. Most of the other SCs’ questions appeared to reveal real concerns about executive interpretation of the intents of the law as written.

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