The Fed Projects Interest Rates Higher for Longer at Least Through 2023

Dot Plot Interest Rate projections from FOMC, highlights and annotations by Mish

Please consider the FOMC Press Release from December 14.

Recent indicators point to modest growth in spending and production. Job gains have been robust in recent months, and the unemployment rate has remained low. Inflation remains elevated, reflecting supply and demand imbalances related to the pandemic, higher food and energy prices, and broader price pressures.

Russia’s war against Ukraine is causing tremendous human and economic hardship. The war and related events are contributing to upward pressure on inflation and are weighing on global economic activity. The Committee is highly attentive to inflation risks.

The Committee seeks to achieve maximum employment and inflation at the rate of 2 percent over the longer run. In support of these goals, the Committee decided to raise the target range for the federal funds rate to 4-1/4 to 4-1/2 percent. The Committee anticipates that ongoing increases in the target range will be appropriate in order to attain a stance of monetary policy that is sufficiently restrictive to return inflation to 2 percent over time. In determining the pace of future increases in the target range, the Committee will take into account the cumulative tightening of monetary policy, the lags with which monetary policy affects economic activity and inflation, and economic and financial developments. In addition, the Committee will continue reducing its holdings of Treasury securities and agency debt and agency mortgage-backed securities, as described in the Plans for Reducing the Size of the Federal Reserve’s Balance Sheet that were issued in May. The Committee is strongly committed to returning inflation to its 2 percent objective.  

Hawkish Dot Plot 

The FOMC statement was expected. 

The Dot Plot of interest rate projections from the FOMC Projections Materials was unexpected in light of a seemingly weak CPI report for November. 

FOMC Projections 

2023 Projections, Change From September 2022

  • Real GDP 2023: 0.5%, down from 1.2%
  • Unemployment Rate: 4.6%, up from 4.4%
  • PCE Inflation: 3.1%, up from 2.8%
  • PCE Core Inflation: 3.5%, up from 3.1%

The Fed is predicting higher inflation, higher unemployment, lower GDP, and more rate hikes than the September 2022 meeting. 

No Recession?

The Fed never predicts recession. It skirts the issue through this statement: “Projections of change in real gross domestic product (GDP) and projections for both measures of inflation are percent changes from the fourth quarter of the previous year to the fourth quarter of the year indicated.

By comparing the fourth quarter to the fourth quarter of the previous year, the Fed can ignore mild recessions in the first three quarters of the year.

At least one member did predict negative GDP for the year if we look at ranges. 

FOMC Range of Projections 

Range Key Points 

  • The projected GDP range for 2023 is -0.5 to 1.0 percent, down from -0.3 to 1.9 percent.
  • The projected interest rate range for 2023 is 4.9 to 5.6%, up from 3.9 to 4.9 percent in September.

Across the board this is a decidedly weaker economic forecast and a much more hawkish interest rate forecast.

CPI Cools Significantly in November But Rent and Food Still Sharply Increasing

The report is very hawkish in light of what many thought was a taming CPI.

For CPI discussion, please see CPI Cools Significantly in November But Rent and Food Still Sharply Increasing

But also note The Price of Food Jumps Again in November, What’s in Your Basket?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Mouse
Mouse
1 year ago
We are still 100bp short of neutral Fed Funds. This is a classic example of recency bias (read up on obvious behavioral biases). Just because Bernanke and Yellen kept interest rates at obscenely low levels for over a decade — what was supposedly “extraordinary” policy — doesnt mean the current situation is hawkish. The Fed needs to tighten another 100bp just to get to a point that might pass as neutral; forget about tight policy.
The zombie government (never mind zombie banks) cannot handle truly tight policy, but retiring baby boomers cannot handle 0% interest rates. The only option that doesn’t screw over major parts of the economy is neutral — which is 5.5% to 8% (depending on how much of inflation is post-covid burp, and how much is batsh!t crazy money printing / deficit spending). Uncle Sam can’t make ends meet at too high a rate, baby boomers can’t survive at the artificial rates of the last decade. Savings and investment is the source of all Uncle Sam’s tax revenue.
Seriously, this may be one of the worst and poorly thought out articles that Mish has ever written; and I’ve been reading Mish since he lived in Illinois (for years while he was still there). Mish used to be better than this.
The Fed needs to tighten more. Uncle Sam can’t afford above 8% interest rates, but Uncle Sam’s tax base also can’t afford below 5.5% (and probably more like 6.5%). Stop whining at Powell’s attempt to fix what Bernanke and Yellen broke. Extraordinary monetary policy should NEVER have been maintained for essentially two decades.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Mouse
SHADOW stats shows the off the charts money printing of covid 2 years makes ZIRP for 12 years before that look tame. she’s gonna blow. of course those of us from lands that saw empires destroyed by this kind of stuff won’t be shocked. as a dually with italian and us passports it is obvious to me, we are just doing what many empires before us have. print and war and take over the world on borrowed money currency and time. as the folks back on the farms get shellacked. empire crumbling 101
jlabson
jlabson
1 year ago
Inflation has barely started.
Mouse
Mouse
1 year ago
Reply to  jlabson
Inflation has been “transitory” for the last 16 months
jlabson
jlabson
1 year ago
The population of the entire State of Colorado has crossed the border since Mr. Magoo was sworn in. After Title 42 expires, we’ll most likely add another few ‘States’ of population to the good ol’ USA. I haven’t read anything about this recent population Supply/Demand imbalance whatsoever. Won’t this have any ‘future’ implications regarding interest rates? ….back to 2.5% in just a few years? In what reality is this? Nobody expected a decade of ‘financial crisis’ Fed rates and 2 years of helicopter clown world monetary policy either. The USA is becoming the ‘NYC’ of planet Earth.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
The O/N RRP still has 2 trillion invested, cash for “certificates of confiscation”.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago

The correct response to
stagflation is the 1966 Interest Rate Adjustment Act. “while the aggregate of
time and demand deposits continued to increase after July, the proportion of
time to demand deposits diminished. Whereas time deposits were 105 percent of demand
deposits in July, by the end of the year, the proportion had fallen to 98
percent. These were all desirable developments.”

M1 peaked @137.2 on 1/1/1966
and didn’t exceed that # until 9/1/1967. Deposit rates of banks decreased from
a high range of 5 1/2 to a low range of 4 % (albeit not enough). A .75%
interest rate differential was given to the nonbanks.

And during this period, the
unemployment rate and inflation rates fell. And real interest rates rose.

vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
AND lbj devalued the silver coins. 1965. guns and butter. the smart traders of the world came to NYC to pick up their gold in storage at NYFED. charles Degaulle knew we’d lose Nam like he did. he warned us. we repeated all their mistakes from indochina to north africa………..
it’s about the money and the empire collapsing.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
What you’re missing is the Pentagon’s communist containment trade deficit. The Pentagon was solely responsible for the denudation of
our monetary gold stocks – forcing the U.S. to go off the gold standard. It is
the maintenance of our far-flung military bases and personnel, and that is a
principle drain on the dollar.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago

Economists flunked accounting. The banks are not in competition with the nonbanks. The NBFIs are the DFI’s customers.

So, with the remuneration of IBDDs, there is an increase in the supply of loan funds, suppressing interest rates, the asset swap. This decreases the real rate of interest.

Contrary to the idiots: there is no “Penalty on Thrift”. The egregious policies are driven by the ABA. See Barron’s:

1) “Forgotten Man? Washington Again Is Threatening to Penalize the Thrifty” Jun. 6, 1966
2) “Up the Down Staircase, The New Economics Doesn’t Know Whether It’s Coming or Going” Sept. 26, 1966
3) “Ceiling Zero. The U.S. Must Take the Lid Off Money Rates” Nov. 26, 1967
4) “Men and Money, Savers of Modest Means Deserve a Decent Return” Jan. 19, 1970
5) “Q Marks the Spot. All Ceilings on Interest Rates Should Be Lifted” Dec. 28, 1970
6) “Maximum Mischief, Ceilings on Interest Rates Must Go” Mar. 13, 1973
7) “Supreme Interest. The Banking Agencies Have Finally Done Something Right” Jul. 23, 1973
8) “No More Wild Cards, Congress Has Dealt Savers Out of the Money Game” Oct. 2, 1973
9) “Poor Joe DiMaggio. It No Longer Pays to Save at the Bowery”” Sept. 22, 1975

The ABA was behind the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act (which destroyed the thrifts, caused the Savings and Loan Association crisis, or “the failure of 1,043 out of the 3,234 savings and loan associations in the United States from 1986 to 1995”; and created the U.S. July 1990 –Mar 1991 economic recession).

As predicted in May 1980, the GSE’s picked up the slack.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
I always say that the fundamental’s precede the technical’s. Powell blew it.
Armageddon is here now. As Daneric Elloitt Wave claims, we’ve peaked at wave 2. The 3rd wave down will be disastrous. Note: I only believe in the Elliott Wave in retrospect.
Mouse
Mouse
1 year ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
Wrong. Bernanke and Yellen blew it. Powell is trying to fix what they broke.
If your business / mortgage can’t afford to pay neutral interest rates, then your business is not viable. You are on welfare, you just aren’t brave enough to admit it.
Pay at least 6.5% to compensate for inflation, or give some serious thought to closing down. Third world economies are desperate for a decent savings pool to finance their businesses (aka jobs, tax revenue for government, etc etc). The stupid USA has been destroying its savings pool and then wondering why jobs and tax revenue is evaporating.
The USA needs to stop shooting itself in the foot while it still has a foot.
Powell is the best thing to happen to the US economy since Paul Volcker (although Powell still falls short of Volcker).
Amit
Amit
1 year ago
What do you think of the thought that FED itself is bankrupt? Just came across this video
Federal Reserve Is On The Brink Of Bankruptcy (Here’s Proof)
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Amit
Absurd. The FED can’t possibly be bankrupt.
Amit
Amit
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And why not? I mean why the probability of that happening 0? Thats what the video discusses.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Amit
I prefer watching perpetual motion machine video’s on YouTube.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
GDP is bunk. i’m shocked at you Mish, for falling for the hooey attached to this number which includes massive amounts of GOV spending. example. the billions to ukraine money laundering operations back to raytheon and FTX political contributions would qualify in GDP. who the hell cares about if GDP is up or down 5 or 10 percent either way, when 40 percent is gov spending. the past 2 years prices is staggering high for most goods houses and services. compared to 2019 and 2020. jobs tight. printing off the charts. call it what you want. but it’s not anything resembling a slow down.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I agree. China has 4x the US population. They have a big trade surplus while we have a big deficit. Seems obvious to me their economy is a lot bigger than ours. They clearly produce way more stuff than we do.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Yeah, China makes stuff, the US manufactures emotions.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
and over priced weapons so the C suite grifters at war department subsidiaries like raytheon etc and the bankers who skim off all the bonds………too. pax amerika is an obvious unwinding old empire. has been unwinding for a few decades. rich world folks think it is like a movie and needs to have some grand finale in 2 hours. nope. most empires bleed out in slow motion over long long time. yawn. i need a nap.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker

Most of the stuff China produces isn’t for survival. It’s for entertainment…emotions.The US version doesn’t end up in a landfill.

Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
GDP is not a measurement, it’s a goal post. It can never fall or it will trigger emotional responses.
Crises reveal fallacy of commonly accepted standards.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
the puppies of amerika hang on every little permutation of the scam of GDP. like baby seal puppies practically begging to be clubbed by their betters and owners.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
The really great thing about economic goalposts is the goalposts can be readily moved around.
FlyNavy1
FlyNavy1
1 year ago
This last episode of “transitory” inflation is just further proof the Fed needs to be abolished.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  FlyNavy1
Yes, put monetary policy back into Congresses hands, really politicize it, we’ll be fine.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
This could be a Marx Brothers movie.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  FlyNavy1
put yourself on gold standard. get out of dollars if one wants to. very simple really. fed abolished. yes. when i play centerfield for the yankees next season.
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Exactly. Real money doesn’t need “managed,” aka, manipulated and appropriated through a dishonest, poorly disguised mechanism of wealth redistribution for the people at the top.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
The future is difficult to predict. Doesn’t matter if its the Fed, Mish, economists, investment advisors, or whoever is making the prediction.
Yet many here complain when someone’s predictions don’t work out.
I accept that most predictions will be wrong, including my own. But I still pay attention to what many are predicting, as it is all worthwhile info.
Regarding the Fed, I accept that they will probably keep raising rates for a while yet, because it is so difficult for them to get inflation to come down quickly. And I expect that the next few rate increases will probably be .25% each. And then they will pause for a year or so and see what happens. That will leave rates at slightly higher levels for more than a year. And I would not be surprised if they stay at those levels for several years. Because I think the Fed will have trouble getting inflation back to 2%.
That will be bad for any industry that needs to borrow money to invest or expand.
Fortunately, the oil and gas industry does not need to borrow much money at all. Most of these companies are generating so much free cash flow that they are paying down debt, and some smaller firms are already debt free. Most are maintaining their capex at present levels or expanding capex modestly; all from their current cash flow. No need to borrow unless they are acquiring assets from other firms.
And they are producing a product whose demand keeps growing every year (with rare exceptions). The IEA predicts that oil demand will grow by 2.3 Mbpd in 2022, and will grow by another 1.7 Mbpd in 2023.
Meanwhile supply is shrinking. SPR releases worldwide in 2022 will total around 240 Mb or 0.67 Mbpd. That will gone in 2023.
And at some point the SPRs will need to be refilled, which will only add to demand.
US companies might be able to make up for the SPR oil, but I doubt that they will, unless prices firm up a bit. They are more focused on profitability, as opposed to production.
OPEC is cutting production in response to current prices. I expect they will continue to cut until prices are back above $90.
Net result; oil companies remain in the “sweet spot”: low debt, no need to borrow, gushing cash flow, buying back shares, increasing dividends, and trading at historically low valuations; EV/CF levels of 2-6. P/Es of 3-8.
Tesla PE is 50.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
tsla and musk are scams.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Okay.
Getting very tired of Musk. Just like I got tired of Trump. Attention seeking narcissists. I do what I can to avoid them. Just like I try to avoid politics, if I can.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
It’s becoming more and more apparent that the US Congress is a scam.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
What does that mean?
CRS65
CRS65
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Papa, consider this regarding where CPI is heading. From March 2022 – June 2022 the MoM CPI range put the pace of CPI annualized at over 10%. It is this spike that prompted the Fed to move from 25 bp hikes to 75 bp hikes in June. Since the July CPI print through the recent November CPI print, the average MoM CPI has been 0.20 or a 2.4% annualized pace. If the CPI continues to behave has it has since July over the next seven months, with the substantial amount of “baked in” CPI in the current YoY number falling out of the equation, the YoY CPI by July will be under 3%. Should that occur, the presumed terminal FFR of 5% will look very restrictive by comparison and should the economy be weak or even flirting with a recession at that time, I believe that it will be a safe bet that the Fed’s tune will change and they will be setting the table for rate cuts by the end of next year.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  CRS65
Anything is possible.
A big part of the high CPI earlier this year was because of the spike in oil prices from $70 to $120. And a big part of the recent reduction in CPI is the drop from $120 to $75.
However, I expect upward pressure on energy prices in 2023 (particularly the second half of 2023) as demand keeps exceeding supply and inventory levels keep dropping. I don’t know if oil will get back to $120, but I expect oil to average around $90-$100 in 2023. Which will boost CPI again. Which is why it will be difficult for the Fed to get inflation down.
CRS65
CRS65
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
You and I differ on outlook. It is not just oil prices that are down sharply over the last six months, virtually all commodities are down sharply, food prices are coming down, apparel is coming down, and housing/rent prices are flattening out or coming down. Certainly oil prices will fluctuate, but if the global GDP continues to weaken as most expect in 2023, demand destruction for oil will mute the effect of China loosening its zero Covid policies.
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Regarding the CPI, two people mentioned eggs, so let’s investigate.
The BLS says eggs are up 49.1% from a year ago. Margarine is a close second, up 47.4%.
At the group level, a special award goes to “food at elementary schools”, up a whopping 254%.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Eggs are way up in price. 49% seems low to me. Closer to 100% IMO.
Food at elementary schools? What about middle and high schools? My daughter can’t get school lunches because there’s not enough time to get the lunch and eat it. My older kids confirmed it. Nothing new. So, in the morning she grabs whatever snacks she can find.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Around here a dozen – generic, not fancy – extra large eggs have gone from about $1.80 to $4.00 and more.
About a 225% increase.
The cheap source of protein remaining – beans.
Then there’s the $5 head of iceberg lettuce.
CRS65
CRS65
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Bird flu! Pretty simple explanation and not something where monetary policy can be an effective counter-measure.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
That s weird, stocks only down a lil’ bit …..Have algorottens been reading between the lines ?
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
The market does not believe those hikes. Will post details tomorrow.
Scooot
Scooot
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Maybe my memory’s playing tricks but It hasn’t done all year has it? It seems to me the Fed’s been saying what it’s going to do for ages, and more or less sticking to it. How do the dot plots of this time last year and earlier this year compare with actual?
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
the market? you sound like a cnbc pitch man. there is no such thing as the market. come on old sport, you know all this. money printing in 2 covid years was 25 years worth. prices sky high since 2019 in everything. jobs tight. you’ve been very wrong about FED all year and i don’t fault you for that. i got rich as a trader being wrong 80% of the time. let’s just move on and admit you missed FED moves. they are gonna keep on raising. they cannot let inflation get out of hand. for their owners sake. i’ll assume i’m wrong. but so far this era of post plague years is so extreme, it’s obvious. to me.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
+++++
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
DX got support from Apr 28/29 2022, 103.95/102.81. // Two billion Muslims prayed for Marocco victory. Qatar, a diminishing energy producer, showed their glitzy RE to the world, like China in the 2008 Olympic, before their military parade, and Berlin 1936.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
abraham receives the prayers from muslims jews and christians. he must pick out of hat for winners of dumb ball games children play.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
2033
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
The Fed want to kill debt. If the CPI will osc between 1% and 10%, to stay the course and avoid cutting rates, the Fed shouldn’t raise
rates too aggressively. The Fed might target a neutral zone slightly below the mid range. When inflation will be 8%-10%, econ101 experts will say that the Fed is behind the curve. If 1%, the Fed was too aggressive. The Fed should be flexible around the neutral zone.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
The Fed creates dependency and biases the risk-return tradeoff, with a corresponding vast transfer of wealth. The Fed also panders to incompetent politicians who cannot balance the budget. At the end of the day, the Fed is anti-competition, and weakens the economy.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
When someone badmouths capitalism, we say “Then show me a better system”.
When someone says “abolish the Fed”, I say the same.
Simply abolishing the Fed puts monetary policy back into Congresses hands, hell no.
Personally, I say the Fed should be comprised of more than just banksters, to represent all facets of society and stop a system that benefits said banksters first and foremost.
.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
it’s the legal tender laws that is the problem. not the fed. we could easily go back to a time of us treasury dollars alongside fed res notes and also state dollars and individual bank dollars, too. read some history i suggest for most. not really that complicated.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Exactly.
Competition between monies would level the playing field.
Let Gresham’s Law do its work.
Nuddernoitall
Nuddernoitall
1 year ago
While not a full-time Fed follower, I do think Powell and his merry band of Fedsters, have been quite consistent in their messaging once they all decided earlier this year to jump on the rate-raising train. So my question is, Why is the market (Mr. Market) always shocked when Powell repeats what he said the Fed was always going to do?
This makes absolutely no sense to me, and honestly I’m tired of seeing my portfolio always take a severe hit on the day Mr. Market expected Powell to say something different than he has said during the past six months.
The answer can’t be to blame it on the Algo’s, can it? So why, especially after the WSJ “fed whisperer” reporter gives the answers to the class before the test.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Nuddernoitall
markets are never logical. in history of markets.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Nuddernoitall
Herd mentality dominates the market. The problem is most of the market has not experienced a major downturn that was NOT fixed with a Fed band-aid. After 14 years of near zero interest rates, the market herd is getting a lesson in ‘rational behavior’ (yet staunchly resists the implications). Simply, the Fed interest rate should rationally compensate lenders for inflation and the real rate. A normal yield curve is the result of rational lending for different maturities, with the front end subject to immediate cyclical effects. Forcing rates to near zero (negative real rates) was a subsidy of the worst possible kind. We are in the process of paying the price.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Recessions are not part of how the economy works : they are mishaps that blind side us, being completely random and meaningless.
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Everything moves in cycles. The economy included. Recessions are simply not evenly spaced, considering monetary and fiscal manipulations.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  RonJ
Recessions are NOT random and meaningless. Most economic cycles reflect herd thinking, and accelerator and multiplier theories. Eg. people buy cars when their current cars ‘wear out ‘(replacement), or when they have the income to buy. A relatively small ‘shock’ is enough to initiate a cycle, particularly related to long-life assets (like housing), which is why housing is so crucial to predicting recessions. Post Covid is a classic example. All manufacturers simultaneously see an increase in demand as Covid ends (some is pent-up demand, some is replacement demand, some is income-shock from stimulus). All manufacturers (herd) increase supply more than the market demands, creating a surplus, usually about the time buyer income slows (stimulus runs out). Prices drop. Margins are low. Low-hanging manufacturers go bankrupt.
Monetary/fiscal manipulations often make the cycle worse–recession territory.
Rbm
Rbm
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Seems to me recessions are supposed to clean the economy of bad businesses. Maybe since the 80s the theme has been do what it takes to not have a recession. Spend to stimulate the economy in bad times then never recapture the money spent during the good years.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Rbm
Since 1980, Reaganomics, job creating tax cuts for the wealthy have been paying for themselves….haven’t they?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Spoken like a good little socialist.
Webej
Webej
1 year ago
Reply to  Webej
Apparently I presumed a /s> tag was unnecessary
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
“Russia’s war against Ukraine is causing tremendous human and economic hardship.”
It wasn’t Putin that overthrew Yanukovich.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  RonJ
He fled to Russia when the parliament scheduled a vote to start impeachment proceeding. Yanukovich was Putin’s Ukrainian version of Lukashenko.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Exactly, Ukrainians were “told” what to do, as Russian propagandists are promoting.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Ukrainians “weren’t” told, (hate that edit expires)
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
LOL , you actually fn NAILED it in your first one !
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
McCain wasn’t simply on vacation when he spoke in Maidan Square.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Bond traders pray for a recession, otherwise the bond massacre will cont.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
bonds and FX have come back to life. so many juicy issues and currency pairs to pick from now. i’m a bond and stock trader and pray to the roman god jupiter each evening for higher rates. nothing like clipping coupons while fly fishing for dotage years.
Quark711
Quark711
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
The massacre is not over. Bonds are near the end of a bear trap bounce. Longer term, the problem will be liquidity. Desperate illiquid issuers will all be fighting each other for money in what will be (correctly) perceived as a scary environment. This will drive rates much higher, overcoming the usual mitigating effect of a slowdown.
Initially, this will be highly deflationary. When the bankruptcies and the pain becomes too great the politicians will be compelled to “save” us. (Which really means saving the government, now awash in high priced debt.)
Over a weekend, everyone’s bills, notes and bonds will be converted to super long term (40-100 year) zero coupon bonds. Problem solved! Now, free from the obligation to pay interest, the presses can roll, and they will, which will wipe out the suckers who thought buying government paper was safe. Smart suckers will immediately take their loss and will sell on the secondary market, assuming one still exists and is still legal.
Don’t be surprised if they also make holding gold illegal again. You know, because it’s an “emergency”!
Oh, and turn in all of your weapons.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Not sure about that. Old bonds will be worth less, but new bonds will have a higher yield. Depends on the maturity date of your bonds.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
1 year ago
The 60 year interest rate cycle has bottomed. The Fed could not stop the previous TWO tops. 15-18 years of generally rising interest rates until the top is reached in ~2040. There will be some pullbacks lasting a years or two. As long as the FED holds its rates lower than market rates, it will make inflation worse.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
also add in the potential for an unwiinding of world wide flung empire of debt and military. something most don’t like to think about. all empires crumble. usually better for mankind, too. i suspect life in pax dumbphuckistan will be much better in future few decades as empire is kicked out of places like middle east and russian sphere and asia. taiwan just elected anti amerikan empire slate first time in their short history. all good things. imho. empires are dopey.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
glad to hear FED chair willing to keep hiking rates. it needs to happen. the blow up of currency amount during war on covid was a once per century event. the financial types who are panting for FED to stop hiking are smoking some really good emerald triangle ganja………..
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
“It’s very premature, in my view, to talk about pausing our rate hikes. We have a way to go.” -Powell
Dot Plot pivot end of 2023.
Who’s lying?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy
Some people are betting the Fed will retreat from rate hikes, we return to negative real rates, and the party continues (optimistic). Others are betting the Fed is committed to a slow deflation of the bubble it created (realistic). Still others think the world is facing a massive debt problem, amplified in the derivative markets (pessimistic).
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I’m thinking that the US has a depression brewing based on the largest generation fully retiring within the next few years. So you have the largest group who makes the most money and pays the most in taxes about to stop working and wanting what the government owes them(SS & Medicare). Meanwhile what’s been happening in Japan with a decreasing population thanks to culture of materialism over family is happening here. Sure we have a lot of immigrants finding their way here but almost all of them call south of our border home. Many don’t pay income tax.
I would think forcing the interest rates up to historical norms will allow us some ammunition to prepare for a it.
No politician will stay elected or get elected if they care to pay off our debt. Having Powell be the fall guy sounds so much better.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy
The driving force at present is global debt, much of it at near zero interest rates. Japan’s problems stem less from a decreasing population than a prolonged period of very low interest rates, and Chinese competition.
As for immigrants, very few immigrants ever pay enough taxes to cover their actual cost to the state. The last time I looked, it was about 70%. The situation is likely worse the lower the education level of the immigrant.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Restaurants, landscapers, builders, auto-shops, Walmart, cleaning services, delivery services, mechanical contractors, retail, farmers, all looking for help, none require college degrees.
MarkraD
MarkraD
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy
“So you have the largest group who makes the most money and pays the most in taxes about to stop working and wanting what the government owes them(SS & Medicare). Meanwhile what’s been happening in Japan with a decreasing population thanks to culture of materialism over family is happening here.”
So, spending $64 billion on a wall to keep hungry, motivated workers out, maybe not a great idea?
.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MarkraD
If the Democrats had not blocked Trump’s wall they probably wouldn’t be having as much of a crisis (that they created) right now.
FYI – I have not/do not like Trump.
DoctorFuture
DoctorFuture
1 year ago
Mish,
Do you have your regular data on their projected rate increase estimate ranges for each of the next three Federal Reserve meetings in 2023?
Thanks!
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  DoctorFuture
Do not understand the question.
Do you mean CME projections?
If so, did capture before meeting images and will capture after images later today or tomorrow.
DoctorFuture
DoctorFuture
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Sorry, I am skilled at confusion in my limited economic vernacular. I mean the slides you normally show of dot plots of the individual Fed member projections of likely rate increase levels at each the next three fed meetings. While you’re at it, stake your reputation publicly on a guarantee of when on the calendar that darn 30 year bond will un-invert with the Fed rate!
DoctorFuture
DoctorFuture
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
I just discovered the CME Fedwatch Tool page – thanks! I may be becoming too savvy for this forum, and am thinking about starting “Doctor Future’s Global Economic Analysis” – I could see myself becoming the next Samuel Bankman-Fried!
I was thrown when they showed the likely rate for Feb. 2023 of 4.25, but it appears they have not updated the baseline rate from today.
I recommend the start of the “Mish” crypto currency, however pegged to the price of frozen chicken and beef on sale at Costco. I volunteer to operate its index exchange, and I promise to be honest, if not transparent. What is the price of real estate in the Bahamas?
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
Reply to  DoctorFuture
I heard there’s a fire sale on a property there.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  DoctorFuture
The price varies by hurricane. Insurance premia run about 20-30% of insured value.
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
1 year ago
CNBC: “So does retail buy stocks here? Or does retail buy a mega ton of stocks here?”
Quark711
Quark711
1 year ago
Reply to  OUdaveguy
Ha! Like with real estate, “It’s always a good time to buy!”
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  OUdaveguy
those idiot box carnival barkers have 99% of middlebrows convinced of the importance of GDP. and of course my favorite is the stock index numbers. a great and glorious swindle. like the classic book, “where are the customers’ yachts?
davidyjack
davidyjack
1 year ago
How will the US Government afford to pay the debt if rates stay at 4%+ for 2 yrs? Interest payments will be so high as more and more debt rolls over.
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
Reply to  davidyjack
Through currency creation(Inflation)
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  davidyjack
By siphoning all investments from Europe into US treasuries.
The ECB is done raising rates at 2%.
Francois Villeroy de Galhau and Co. makes Jerome look competent.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
Reply to  davidyjack
If you look at our deficit, you’ll note they don’t really concern themselves with such things. That’s for us commoners.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
1 year ago
Reply to  davidyjack
“How will the US Government afford to pay the debt if rates stay at 40%+ for 2 yrs?”
By issuing more debt. Safe in the knowledge that their idiot captive indoctrinati are so scared of “The Syyyystem Colaaaapsing” that they’ll bend over and acquiesce to bail the rabble out indefinitely. Despite they themselves living in trashdumps with a medical “plan” consisting entirely of street bought fentanyl.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  davidyjack
Never borrow more than you can cover by borrowing more.

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