To end the government shutdown, Trump Makes His Case for a Border Wall.
President Trump in a prime-time address Tuesday said a wall along the southern border is key to national security, as he called for lawmakers to fund it and end a partial government shutdown that is days away from becoming the longest in U.S. history.
In the televised address from the Oval Office, Mr. Trump’s first in his nearly two years as president, he said a barrier is necessary to prevent the movement of illegal drugs across the U.S.-Mexico border, and he shared stories of human trafficking.
“This is a humanitarian crisis—a crisis of the heart and a crisis of the soul,” said Mr. Trump, sitting at the Resolute Desk. “This is the cycle of human suffering that I am determined to end.”
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California and Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic congressional leaders, issued an immediate televised response to the president, rejecting the idea of a wall as unnecessary.
“President Trump must stop holding the American people hostage, must stop manufacturing a crisis, and must reopen the government,” Mrs. Pelosi said.
Mr. Schumer said Democrats are united with the president on the need for stronger border security, but said: “We sharply disagree with the president about the most effective way to do it.”
Earlier Tuesday evening, Senate Democrats prevented the chamber from moving to consider a package of bills aimed at boosting security assistance for Israel and other Middle Eastern policy provisions. Republicans hold 53 seats in the Senate, where most bills need 60 votes to clear procedural hurdles.
Ron Paul on the Wall
Via ZeroHedge: ‘We Don’t Need A Border Wall If Trump Removes Incentives For Illegal Immigrants’
Former Congressman and libertarian icon Ron Paul has some advice for President Trump.
Instead of building a wall along the southern border to keep out illegal immigrants, maybe he should instead try removing the incentives that attract them to the US in the first place – incentives like a relatively easy path to citizenship and easy access to welfare benefits.
After Paul said the shutdown “isn’t significant in the scheme of things,” Paul’s interviewer, Squawk Box’s Andrew Ross Sorkin, asked if he supported Trump’s border wall, Paul responded that he “doesn’t like walls” (though he didn’t say outright that he opposes Trump’s plans).
“I don’t like walls. I’m a libertarian I don’t want to wall people in and wall people out.”
“I don’t want free, open borders either,” he continued.
“I think you have to remove the incentives for people to come. They come because there’s a welfare system here, there’s easy access to citizenship its politicized one group wants them here because they think they can get the votes.”
Easy Way
Passing legislation to end benefits like Paul suggests is a non-starter. It will not happen.
But there is an easy way: The E-verify system If employers were forced to use it, with big penalties for not doing so, the problem would vanish immediately. It is the only effective way to halt illegal immigration. We have a system, why not force employers to use it?
Trump might want to try it himself given that he hires illegals.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Mish, you need to live in CA or TX to see how the system gets cheated. Only Ron Paul is on the right track.
These illegal immigrants come in because there are free money!! First, they get all kinds of government aids or social welfare from religious institutes legally or illegally. Since a huge percentage of the government workers at all ranks were illegal immigrants at one point, they help out their own countrymen by faking documents, or telling them how to fake IDs, etc. to obtain the government aids. Then, you think they are hard workers and pay taxes?? No, they only work for CASH by doing handyman/cleaning work, etc. That way, their reported income can stay at zero for maximum government aids. Their way of living surely boost consumption, but other legal residents here who have lower income would never be able to live like how these illegal immigrants live.
They obviously don’t pay into healthcare system, nor auto-insurances, nor social security systems. The only thing that they pay into is the sales taxes.
If we abolish all income taxes, and move to all sale taxes, it will make illegal immigrants to pay a fair share. That way, whether the job was paid in cash or other methods, it doesn’t matter. Government will not have the incentive to hunt and track all the cash movement. They simply need to enforce sales tax at the business levels, which is so much easier than tracking down every individual. If you learn from Taiwanese government, what they do for this enforcement is by making every sale receipt as a government-sponsored lottery ticket. People are incentivized to ask for receipts and indirectly enforcing every sale tax, big or small. Tracking down the big sales/transactions at business is a lot easier than tracking down millions of small transactions.
In any case, once you remove the financial incentives to come into USA, the flow of illegal immigrant will stop automatically, without ANY walls, which historically will never work 100%. Sure, they can still come. BUT they must knowingly come in with their own financial resources and prepare to work hard to survive.
If they come in, getting all the foodstamps, and welfare dollars illegally, and work only for cash, they actually enjoy a higher standard of living than the welfare system is designed to do. What must happen is an extremely high penalty for cheating the welfare system, either from inside workers, or out. Or maybe simply abolish all social welfare entirely.
I have no problem with requiring e-verify, but surely no one thinks that will solve the problem? Most businesses do not hire illegal help, anyway, as they already face serious penalties if caught. The only disincentive that would discourage illegal immigration would be to take away social services. If an illegal immigrant can’t get medical care, and can’t get education for their children, and can’t get other assistance, that would be a strong disincentive to coming, but I don’t see anyone who wants to take that approach.
That leaves three possible approaches:
To number 2 and 3, you can add one of the following options:
A. If you find some in the country illegally, you deport them.
B. You actively search for people in the country illegally so that you can deport them.
C. You deport people only if they commit serious crimes
D. If they manage to get in, you grant them amnesty, and allow them to stay.
The Republican position at the current time seems to be 2C. The Democrat position seems to be 1D or 3D.
Only workable solution is what Trump promised:
1.
Wall on the WHOLE US-Mexico border.
2.
Mandatory e-Verify with large penalties for employers that do not use e-Verify
3.
Stop the crazy birthright citizenship interpretation giving illegals and tourists babies US citizenship
4.
Stop all welfare for illegals
5.
Deport all criminal illegals as a priority and then deport all the rest of illegals and allow non-criminal illegals apply for a working visa to come to work in USA if they are paid good wages.
NO citizenship.
Families stay in their home country.
6.
NO amnesty whatsoever so Dreamers go back home too to the countries speaking the language they speak and waving the flags they wave.
As a BONUS A. Trump should STOP accepting asylum applications at the ports of entry and no longer accept asylum applications either from illegals sneaking to USA.
As a BONUS B. Trump should tell Meico to stop all onward movement so Mexico controls their southern border and only let’sin people with a visa and passport and no longer allows illegals to come through Mexico to USa and no longer gives illegals transit visas to come through Mexico to USA.
If illegals want to ask asylum they do it in Mexico or return back home.
Whilst E-Verify is a noble start, it’s far from effective or reliable. I work in an industry where all contractors are “required” to use E-Verify. They have all told me that the system is easily corrupted. They run their employees thru the E-Verify system and then find out thru the DMV that the drivers license as well as their identity are fake. It’s pervasive and not a 1 time deal.
What does E-Verify do with a situation such as the one I had? A person got ahold of someone else’s SSN, and took over their identity. They used that person’s name and SSN, and had a drivers license with their own picture, but the assumed name.
Trump’s waiting for the population to beg him to open “The Toolbox of Terror”.
E-Verify vs. The Wall: the first sends a message to average Americans that the problem is with corporate America. The second sends a message that the problem is with Democrats and Mexicans. The MSM and Republicans know where their bread is buttered.
There will be no wall, and in a few months, no president trump.
E verify? The problems isn’t with Mexicans who work for a living. I want them to work. The problem is those who come over, get on the dole, and/or become gangbangers. You think they are working? Hah! Mish, get a clue.
Here in SoCal you can hire illegals for any day job, but they only work for CASH for $15-20/hr. Also, they expect you to provide them with lunch!
Without about 29.5 million illegals in USA wages would be higher for many Americans.
Without about 29.5 million illegals in USA many more Americans would be in jobs instead of the very low 62.9% workforce participation rate.
Without about 29.5 million illegals healthcare would cost a lot less for Americans and Health Insurance would cost a lot less for Americans.
Hospitals have to take care of illegals for 0 dollars when they show up and this causes hospitals charging Americans double to cover the cost for healthcare provided to illegals and this causes health insurance costing double what it would cost without illegals.
Without about 29.5 million illegals childbirth would cost a lot less for Americans. Now Americans have to pay up to 10k for a childbirth without complications either directly or through high health insurance costs since illegals give birth for 0 dollars.
Without about 29.5 million illegals Americans would do better in school and get a better education when today illegals kids fill classrooms and cause teachers having no time for American kids in those schools where there are lots of illegals kids.
Dreamers high school dropout rate is about 25%…
LIBACRITES turn face as usual
encourage states rights
Sates that have safe cities to host illegal immigration can also give “implied consent as citizens” by giving drivers licenses and free education, healthcare and homes. Those states that do not want to host may discourage and prevent them.
That was not Pelosi and Schumer. That was a Pelosi doll and a Schumer doll and a couple of recordings made by computer synthesitation. The voices were monotone and the faces did not show any expression.
First Trump problem, if it was a “National Emergency” why did he wait two years, to finally decide it was an emergency? Could it be that his friends in Congress think its a waste of money? Why is it a national emergency when the dems take over the house? I’m sure that if Trump had asked Paul Ryan nicely…NOT!
The sad truth is that Trump did have an opporuntiy early on ($50 billion if memory serves — in exchange for the Dreamers…that didn’t fly with congress)
Arrivals crashed in the first year under Trump because illegal migrants thought the policies would be tight so they stayed home.
Then open borders activists started directing Caravans to USA and then totally incompetent Kirstjen Nielsen had USA run and pay local radio ads in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador telling migrants to only come if they need to flee and ask for asylum.
Then Kirstjen Nielsen tld to Congressional hearing and to Media that USA is open for asylum seekers.
Now there is a huge flood of migrants and arrivals in 2018 increased a lot from 2017 and since Flores decision requires parents coming with kids to be released to interior USA in 20 days the amount of family units exploded and minors coming by themselves are at Obama levels similar to 2013-2014.
Also Trump has been surrounded by Koch Brothers funded stooges like Budget Director Mick Mulvaney and VP Mike Pence who have told Trump it is not a big issue and told him to sign Omnibus with NO wall funding in early 2018 and not to care about the issue and concentrate on cutting taxes and regulations and giving Army a 700+ billion bonanza.
Mick Mulvaney and Mike Pence have been funded by Koch Brothers their whole political career.
Koch Brothers only fund Republicans promising mass-amnesty and open borders.
Mick Mulvaney was one of the Republicans funded by Koch Brothers that was used to hijack the Tea Part movement for the most part.
Also Trump was clueless and picked Koch Brothers funded Pence as his VP and let Pence do most of the hiring decisions for the Trump Whitehouse so many people working for Trump in Whitehouse are Koch Brothers approved aka for mass-amnesty and open borders.
Schumer offered 25 billion in early 2018 IF there was a mass-amnesty and citizenship for ALL dreamers aka all Dreamers that applied for Dreamer status under Obama and all who claim to be Dreamers and fit the age profile and tell a story how they were brought to USA as kids even if they ran through the border as adults.
This would have legalized and given citizenship for all illegals under 35 years old as dreamers if they came as kids OR if they told story how they came as kids despite coming as adults.
I think the Schumer demand could have ballooned up to 5 million illegals getting citizenship making USA permanently democrat controlled since latinos vote about 70%-80% for Democrats.
Trump was willing to give legal status but NO citizenship so Schumer pulled the offer after a few days.
If Trump can’t get a wall, what do you think will happen when trying to eliminate incentives? Get serious!
I love Ron Paul, but straightforwardness does not work in this county.
No will; no country.
Drudge headline from “above the fold”; TRUMP DEMANDS WALL, DEMS DIG IN!, SHUTDOWN BEGINS TO BITE- This is perfect political positioning by President Trump. He has the optics and he is harming the democratics brand in this political theater. I may not like many of his policies, but there is no denying that Trump is outmaneuvering his opponents on this one!
I guess we will see when airports start to close because people walk off the job they aren’t getting paid to do, ditto for the border agents and port authority. It may take a month but it is a given.
Polls show the public blames Trump. Maybe the reason you missed that is because you’re relying on biased news sources.
Perhaps you are correct that I am self-selecting to my bias. Perhaps you likewise err in what “polls” you give weight to.
Envir: Rather callous for the “compassionate party” to allow such harm to unfold over something they can end in practically a moment!
Plurality of 42% think the issue at the southern border is a crisis according to the latest poll.
About 35% ish think there is NO crisis.
Rest do not have an opinion.
Hopefully Trump can get over 50% people to think there is a crisis so Democrats have some pressure to offer more than the 1 dollar Democrat Nancy Pelosi flippantly offered.
They should pay TSA personnel by creating an exemption for them to keep airports operational.
They created an exemption for Coast Guard to be paid.
Also Trump would be wise to create an exemption for e-Verify personnel too because e-Verify being closed is just stupid since some states require e-Verify from businesses.
Agree completely with the E-Verify angle and the political interest in paying lip service to migration security but in fact enabling cheap labour. Two things not yet mentioned here:
… this can only end in social revolution. The yellow vests portend what is to come. That protest is not about the diesel tax, that is just the spark. It is by the working classes and rural people, against the elite telling them there is no other way for 35 years now, and about stagnant wages, rising cost of living, and immigration. Their main demand is for Macron to resign.
I don’t believe that a physical barrier along the southern border and e-verify accomplish the same thing.
One either sees the sense of having, following and enforcing immigration law or one doesn’t. The problem seems to be political.
Physical barrier on the whole border is needed to stop new illegal immigrants from coming to USA.
e-Verify is needed to turn of the jobs magnet and make millions of illegals easier to return home.
The stable, long term solution to the US’s current illegal immigration problem is for Mexico to become a rich country. What can be done to help that process along?
Trump should also make a deal with Mexico where they guard their southern border more effectively and where the only options given are to claim asylum in Mexico or return back home.
Previously Mexico has allowed illegals to travel through Mexico to US border without any controls and lately they have been giving them transit visas to travel to US border.
For those coming to USA Trump should order that since they passed through a safe enough country where they could have asked for asylum their asylum applications in USA are considered “manifestly unfounded” and they sould not be accepted and people should be flown immediately back to Guatemala, Honduras etc. or to Southern Mexico.
Or, rather than using planes, simply close the door on them. Treat them like adults, for gosh sakes.
Mexico has a worse problem than economics: The crime rate keeps getting worse and worse. For example, read about all the politicians being murdered.
Yep, we could help with Mexico’s crime situation by declaring victory in the War On Drugs and decommissioning the troops.
We’re some ways beyond immigrants coming solely for “welfare” “benefits” by now. Immigrants flock in even greater numbers to Gulf state countries where they don’t get anything of that sort at all. Ditto immigrants to California during the gold rush.
There will always be gradient pressures moving people from places of low wealth, to places of higher wealth. Per capita. The West built up a nice stash of “gold,” and are now dying off. Leaving a vacuum for others to fill. Japan did as well, but getting there is much more of a pain. Eventually, they will cave as well. Long before the last Japanese dies off, leaving the Islands entirely unpopulated.
The US is just really easy to get to for Latin Americans. Stuff like walls, will inevitably make it slightly harder, hence slow things down a bit. But like trying to dam a river indefinitely, pressure will just build even higher, until any such fortification fails.
You’ll never arrive at the progressive “Utopia” of a few gray haired, self proclaimed “Gentlewomen” being granted exclusive “rights” to large swathes of land and productive resources by The Great Fed and Government, while the rest toil in petting zoos behind walls for a pittance, wagging their tails and smiling gratefully at Ms Barren for “letting them” pay all they have in rent for the shack she has assigned them. That drivel may work for a while if propagandized heavily enough, but eventually, someone will wise up, shoot the bitch, and move in to take her stuff. Like Europeans once did to Native Americans’ land and buffalo herds.
If there is an Israel style wall on the border there can be any amount of pressure on the other side but people concentrate on improving their lives there instead of leaving and trying the almost impossible of getting through a serious wall.
This also requires USA to stop accepting asylum claims on the US ports of entry and on the border.
France is an example on this since they do NOT accept asylum applications at their border from migrants that have avoided registering in Italy and try to go north, French police just either stop the migrants at the border or drive them back to Italy if they sneak across.
Lastly the Gulf countries invite the workers over to work for a pittance and the workers go back home if they lose their job and the migrant workers NEVER get local citizenships.
I don’t think that holds. It’s people breaking a law that violates property rights, not lack of protection. It’s like leaving your house unlocked: anybody walking in knowing they’re not welcome would still be violating property rights despite protection being low. Instead, open borders offer freedom, but freedom always comes at a price. In this case a perceived threat to the existing system of entitlements (in terms of government programs, but also relatively highly paying jobs that are threatened by cheap labour). I believe that good points have been made why that wall shouldn’t be built:
it would mean actual violation of property rights of those people owning land where the wall would be buiilt
it wouldn’t help alleviate the problem, since most illegal immigration is by people overstaying visas and no wall will stop that
it costs a lot of money that an overly indebted state could surely find a better use for
I suspect Trump does not care one bit about the above but only about the symbolism of a wall and that he is more than willing to violate other people’s property rights just so he will look like the strong man that built the wall. I have no respect for people that are so keen on making a profit (in any form) while transferring the costs to others.
Answers to your points:
1.
Wall would not violate property right since Roosevelt made the Roosevelt Reservation in 1907 that reserved 60 feet at the US-Mexico border for Federal government use in California, New Mexico and Arizona.
Only issue is private Texas landowners and they can be compensated at market prices so there is no real violation of property rights.
2.
Most illegal immigration is through the US-Mexico border. Visa overstays are much smaller problem and visa overstays can be stopped by tightening visa standards and creating a biometric entry-exit system tracking when people leave and alerting authorities if they overstay.
3.
Wall on the whole border is 25 billion once.
Trump is now asking just 5 billion.
USA pays 700+ billion a year in federal debt interest.
USA just send 56 billion dollars in foreign aid.
Out the yearly USA federal budget the whole border wall at 25 billion would be under 0.5% once.
Out the yearly USA federal budget the border wall funding Trump is now asking at 5 billion would be under 0.1%
as for point 1: I think that ‘property rights’ mean that you would have the power to decide whether to sell or not. So forcing people in Texas to sell does matter, especially to someone who wants the wall to ensure property rights in the first place. Violating property rights with the intent to protect property rights is ironic to say the very least.
as for point 2: I will defer to experts on this one. From other posters on this site I understand the illegal border crossings are not nearly as common as visa overstays but if data shows otherwise then that point stands
as for point 3: 5 billion is a lot of money and it would be the first time a contractor stays within budget. But more to the principal: it’s extra government money without accompanying saving proposed. Not in line with ‘smaller government’, but If you are to borrow an extra 5 billion anyway I’m sure that money could be spent better elsewhere.
but my main point was: I do not see how a wall protects property rights. I do see how it violates them in Texas.
Illegal immigration has increased the size of government continually for tens of years since illegals need services and since they are mostly poor they need somebody else than them to pay for those services so a supposed “small government” type complaining about 5 billion for a wall and instead wanting to keep the illegals coming and thereby increasing the government would be really funny joke if it was not such a tragic situation overall.
“Going after employers of illegals was always the easy, obvious primary solution to this problem. The fact that it never happened speaks volumes about our priorities.”
Bingo!
But that obvious fact means you are as “biased” as I am.
The reporting problem here is obvious: Bias – Trump lovers believe he can do no wrong, haters believe he can do no right!
I voted for him. He cant sell anything. His days are numbered but oddly I found his argument more credible than what 2 old white Democrats who’ve been serving since God knows when said. America is screwed not because of Trump. He actually is seeking change. I’ve seen no credibility from Schumer and Pelosi on anything they say. We will get more of the same.
Trump promised among his election promises that there would be mandatory e-Verify with large fines for not using e-Verify and employing illegals.
So far nothing has happened about that.
Trump is surrounded by too many ass-kissers.
“You show your bias in your title “Ron Paul Says We Don’t Need It”. Paul never said that! He conditioned it on ending benefits which you admitted would never happen”
I only get 80 characters in a title and I fully explained Paul’s position did I not?
And I offered a remedy did I not?
Who is the biased, other than you?
“I only get 80 characters in a title” is a lame excuse to put a falsehood in the title.
Your e-verify remedy is a non-starter and you know it. Democrats and some Republican lawmakers are against it. And the political courts in CA will ban its implementation.
Where is my bias? Because I criticize you?
There are no votes nor campaign contributions to be had by perp-walking CEOs in prime-time for hiring illegals without using E-verify. Neither party will ever touch this third rail of their political power and funding. The beltway gang’s ongoing blatant, disgraceful hypocrisy on immigration policy is appalling. Six times now since Reagan , they’ve done deals to “fix” immigration. They think we’re idiots; they’re right. We deserve these Keystone cop charades.
Reagan’s 1986 mass-amnesty to millions and millions of illegal is the original sin.
People still remember Reagan as a hero so everyone after him thought that giving out amnesty is OK because voters will still call you a hero after granting amnesty.
Reagan should be blamed for what he caused so no other politician would dare to be for amnesty.
You only have to watch about 12 minutes to see the history of this mess. This is still live so you will have to start at the begining.
You show your bias in your title “Ron Paul Says We Don’t Need It”. Paul never said that! He conditioned it on ending benefits which you admitted would never happen – “Passing legislation to end benefits like Paul suggests is a non-starter. It will not happen.” So stop misleading your readers and the endless anti-Trump posts.
All this drama sure works well to cover up what is going on in the Middle East and with Rubio pushing the anti-BDS legislation. Not a word in the news.
What is wrong with the anti-BDS legistlation?
The BDS movement is extreme-leftist “look at me, i am a good person”-poserism that is intended to interfere in the politics of another country and in effect blackmail Israel into submission.
.
Is no one else uncomfortable with e-verify? I still remember a couple, three decades ago when I first had to show a passport or birth cert or whatnot to be an employee at a new job. It gave me the creeps. Like I’d stepped in to a bad WWII movie. “Show me your papers, mein Herr.” Or “Wait, wait. I need the US government’s OK to work for someone?!?” That just didn’t seem right. Stuff like this seems why we no longer hear or say the off-hand expression, “It’s a free country” to mean, “Sure. Go ahead.”
You need no OK from government to work for someone since you are an American.
e-verify is just an administrative procedure to make sure illegal immigrants do not abuse the system.
Sure. Now. But it does establish a precedent. Guilty until proven innocent, so to speak.
It’s not worth building a wall but it’s not worth arguing about, either. Build it and move on.
Best speech I ever heard from a president – only 13 minutes!
If you are illegal in Mexico you will be arrested, thrown in jail and deported asap.
They also give zero benefits to illegals and require government issued ID to vote.
How come the left doesn’t call them racist?
Actually Mexico used to allow illegals to walk through Mexico if the illegals said they are going to USA.
Now Mexico has started giving the illegals transit visas so they can legally reach US border.
Going after employers of illegals was always the easy, obvious primary solution to this problem. The fact that it never happened speaks volumes about our priorities.
I’ve been shrugging at these wall stories the last few years. If we were serious about this, the time for action would have been after Reagan’s amnesty in 1986. It’s been spilled milk for decades. Besides, our insane central bank-driven financial system (globally, not just for us) is a problem orders of magnitude greater. It’s like worrying about changing a light bulb in the garage while the rest of the house is on fire.
It has been betrayal after betrayal on immigration policy and border security for tens of years.
Trump is the last attempt to put out the fire on the corner of the house.
If Trump does not keep his election promises USA will be lost.
Everify is down because of the shutdown.
OK, that is bad. They should have made an exception for that.
They made an exception for this:
They should make an exemption to e-Verify to stay open RIGHT NOW!!!
But of course!