Just left a meeting with Chuck and Nancy, a total waste of time. I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier? Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 9, 2019
Well, that was that. The meeting didn’t last long.
Vice-President Mike Pence told reporters he was disappointed that Democrats were “unwilling to engage in good faith negotiations”.
I fail to see how good-faith negotiations can happen. The wall is not a candy cane that can be broken in two. Nor can we declare a tie and move on.
One side demands a wall, the other side demands no wall. Want to build half a wall? A wall half height? There isn’t much room to compromise here, no matter which side you support.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Nuts! There is clearly room to compromise. Clearly. Trump has said he would come down and negotiate from 5.7 billion, but Nancy Pelosi said “NO” to any funding for any part of a wall/fence. Ridiculous! She AND Charly Schumer voted to build 400 miles in California under Bill Clinton, and 300 miles in Texas under GW Bush. They also voted for more in 2013 and 2018 and approved funding for the same to be built by Border Patrol, which has already built over 200 miles in Texas and elsewhere. BP is currently building another 100 miles in New Mexico just to the west of El Paso, Texas.
What’s the difference in 5.7 and Nancy’s 1.6 in “border security”? Not much more than her tossing on another 1 billion and agreeing to some steel slat wall fencing, which she’s voted to build and has built before.
There’s only one reason she is saying no, and one reason only. The #1 reason Trump voters wanted him was to build a wall. Trump’s not even asking for a lot, as one billion in funding for wall/fence translates to about 200 miles.
The difference is a rounding error at the Pentagon. They spend that much at lunch time. It ain’t the moon and back for lunch.
You’re a hypocrite, Mish.
Trump’s tantrum is absurd, but progressives are also absolutely foolish if they think that a government that “shuts down” so often should have a monopoly over our health care, retirement and other key life decisions.
This is all about tokenism at this point — the far right posturing about “a wall to keep out icky brown people” and the far left posturing about “anyone who wants to move here and get government benefits should be able to.”
The problem with modern politics is that it is populated by ignorant, head in the sand, establishment elites with no real understanding of the human sciences who lack the ability to think outside the box. Those in government follow each other like drones when times are good but devolve into headless chickens when things go wrong and their narrow expectations are threatened. Ultimately their top priority is themselves and their cronies. To expect good policy from such leadership is like believing in Santa Claus.
This whole charade only makes sense if it is really about 2020 and energizing the respective base constituency of each party.
of course.
A Shut Down Government Actually Costs More Than an Open One
By Jim Tankersley
Jan. 9, 2019
A federal government shutdown might seem like a great way to save money: When agencies aren’t open, they aren’t spending tax dollars. But history shows us that closing the government actually costs more than keeping it open.
Shuttered parks can’t collect entrance fees. Furloughed workers will ultimately get paid for not showing up to work. And the government will wind up having to pay interest on missed payments to some contractors.
“There’s nothing good about this shutdown, from a fiscal or a budgetary standpoint,” said Michael A. Peterson, chairman of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, which advocates fiscal prudence and federal debt reduction. “We’re absolutely not celebrating not spending money.”
Here are some ways that the shutdown raises costs for the federal government.
Federal employees will eventually get their salaries — for work they weren’t allowed to perform
….
The whole charade that Democrats are opposing the wall to save 5 billion is just a charade and lies.
5 billion is under 0.1% of the yearly Federal budget once.
Building the wall on the whole border according to the original estimate would be 25 billion and this would be under 0.5% of the yearly Federal budget once.
US pays 700+ billion per year in interest for the federal debt…
Screw the wall. It’s about time someone stood up to Trump the prick. This is all on Trump.
You hate Trump so much that you will willingly cut off your nose to spite your face. Are you aware that border barriers were in previous administration budgets without any qualms and were largely supported by the same TDS group opposing it now?
Why are you blaming me? I don’t have any power! Blame Trump. All he has to do is agree to reopen the government and continue his wall discussion later. And as many have pointed out here previously, if the politicians in general wanted to deal with this problem, all they had to do was require e-verify for hiring and mete out stiff prison sentences or fines for anyone hiring non-verified people.
Stop paying lip service. You don’t want the wall. You don’t want e-verify. You want open border. Your TDS is on full display.
“It’s about time someone stood up to Trump the prick.”
@ ML1 & pi314 Ok, so the house should just give T what he demands? Ok then why waste all this money on having a legislature . . . just elect a king and be done with it?
@ pi314 Yep they were . . . at border crossing points and were US & Mexican cities met . . . want to take a guess about all the legal implications of building this monstrosity (never mind the money) . . .
Those are the BIG ones . . . think anything is going to be built in the next two years while all these cases work their way through the federal courts . . . and remember it’s a CRISIS right now . . . if you believe THAT – justifying the building – then HOW is building a wall that’s gonna take a decade going to solve it . . .
You are either intentionally LYING or uninformed. President Roosevelt made the Roosevelt Reservation in 1907 where 60 feet on the border is reserved for the Federal government in California, New Mexico and Arizona so 100% wall can built in those states.
The only state where government needs to use eminent domain is Texas and even there Fedral government, Army and State of Texas own large parts of the land on the border so in those places a wall could be built right now.
In those places in Texas where government needs to use eminent domain to build a wall it can be built on the border and those stupidities committed under Obama and Bush where partial wall was built that left American land, fields and even houses on on the other side were either total incompetence or intentional sabotage to create problems so one could say building a wall is impossible.
OK, so you got 60ft on most of the border . . . think that is enough to actually BUILD . . . . and once again you can NOT build ON the border (construction & maintenance of both sides of the structure are needed), in TX it’s the middle of the Rio Grande and you can’t build on the flood plane either, for legal, environmental and construction reasons . . . (so effectively you are seeding control of the river to Mexico).
So . . . that still leaves point 1. – for quite a large part as you need more land to actually BUILD than that miserly 60 ft, never mind access roads and such. 2. has not been addressed and although 3. seems less of a problem than I may have thought it’s still an issue and I imagine 4. and 5. will be hard fought . . . .
SO we apparently have a crisis NOW and the solution offered is building something that will take at least a couple of years to even really get started and is according to all the experts pretty much guaranteed to be in large paart ineffective (most illegal immigrant are VISA overstays) in solving the problem it is sold as to solving (illegal immigration) . . . still seems stupid and a waste of money to me. In fact if I offered a solution like that in my job my competency would (rightly) be questioned and my next performance evaluation would be mediocre at best . . .
Also ‘under the jurisdiction’ does not necessarily means ‘can do with whatever it likes’ so the wording (legalese) of this proclamation becomes of prime importance . . . and thus another legal battle . . . I can see the USSC will be busy in the next few years if we go down this road . . .
Also the wording of the 3rd paragraph may exclude amerindian reservations established before the issuing of the proclamation . . . “rights of way are” specifically protected . . . so no matter what there will be issues with people who own land on both sides of the border.
60 feet is plenty of space to BUILD a wall.
Roosevelt Reservation is quite clear that 60 feet on the border is for Federal government in California, New Mexico and Arizona.
The normal way a compromise works in a situation like this is that Side 1 says “we want A”, and Side 2 says “we don’t want A, and we are only willing to give it to you in exchange for B”. Thus we could have Shumer and Pelosi say “We ware only willing to fund your wall if you agree to grant amnesty to all illegal immigrants with no criminal record, and in addition, an additional $10B in research on solar cell technology”, or whatever it is they want.
Even if the wall is wasteful as Pelosi claims, what is her justification for shutting down a government that oversees a 20-trillion dollar economy over a relatively measly sum of $5b? The other argument that the wall is immoral is not going to fly. And she claims she is for strong border security!
5 billion, 5 billion there and eventually, you are talking real money, to paraphrase some political wag long ago. I’m happy the Dems are standing firm against the Trumpahole.
The same politicians just sent 56 billion in foreign aid to faraway lands and now Pelosi and Schumer are having a temper tantrum over 5 billion for a wall because it is too much and they want to save money.
Laughable and sad…
Fitch made some disconcerting comments re Uncle’s AAA credit rating as a result of this nonsense.